noli_phismo_c04500wbd10122019

[noli]

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I'm itchin' to get started on this 24 Skater-less cat restoration

my goal here is not to do a full cap-off restore, but a rolling work restore

What I mean is, I will do a small chunk of restore work during the week, and go boating on the weekend

but since the cold weather is quickly arriving, I better get her set up for the cold winter months' storage


450613

[noli]

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The trailer is practically new. The Boat was hauled from Arizona to NJ. And when it arrived in NJ, was driven a couple of times from NJ to Md

so I would say the trailer has no more than 3K miles. But that's just my calculation






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[noli]

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wanna make the trailer sound for the trip so will replace this broken trailer jack


450617

[mrichartz]

You have some work ahead of you..but aren't they all one way or another.
What are you planning on for motors?
Interior pics
Subscribed...know you will but Post lots of pics

[noli]

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the power will not be your ordinary for these cats, and I will get shot down for this

for spring 2020, a single 200HP motor :)





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[mrichartz]

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the power will not be your ordinary for these cats, and I will get shot down for this

for spring 2020, a single 200HP motor :)





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Why only a single?..but hell still get to go boating
Wonder how fast? Or slow
Saving up for a 450R?

[noli]

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with the 200HP, proly hit 45MPH, yikes!


for 2021, I would like to get into 300R power, if I am lucky




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[mrichartz]

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with the 200HP, proly hit 45MPH, yikes!


for 2021, I would like to get into 300R power, if I am lucky




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Hey 40-45 is better than sitting on land!!
Wonder if with less weight about hop and if only 45 will you be stuck in hop zone? Anybody gave an idea..

[noli]

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will get a winch stand for this mess

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[mrichartz]

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will get a winch stand for this mess

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Pic doesn't work

[noli]

Hey 40-45 is better than sitting on land!!
Wonder if with less weight about hop and if only 45 will you be stuck in hop zone? Anybody gave an idea..
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you hit the nail right on...


I haven't gone boating since 2001, well the kind of boating that I like, I've been grubbing off rides from friends, renting CC's , etc



so going 45 on "my" boat would be dream for me






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[mrichartz]

Any more pics underneath deck etc?
Can't wait to see what you do to this..
Well with a single 200 if your going to use it some while working on it at least youll be a safer speeds

[noli]

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deck pics with cockpit pics




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[noli]

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[noli]

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[noli]

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[noli]

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transom


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[mrichartz]

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deck pics with cockpit pics





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This is the only pic rest are invalid

[noli]

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all pics should be showing now?






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[noli]

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450696

[mrichartz]

Yes see them now.. :D

[mrichartz]

Well looks like it shouldn't be to hard to start ripping into it..

[noli]

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463093

[LakeFever]

Cool hull, Looks like work. Speaking of which are you giving up on the stream resto?

[noli]

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I realized that I need to go boating while the Hydro is being restored

So I will work on the Phismo (Skater-L) to get it on the water sooner

And work on the Hydro too


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[Dave S]

To Me.... the best tool to get into a big job is a elctirc chainsaw.....don't waste time grinding..... cut the bad out..... be careful not to go too deep.....its fast and not so dusty......more chunky.

[tnelsmn]

Fun looking boat! Looking forward to the rebuild thread, subscribed!

[Merc 2.5]

To Me.... the best tool to get into a big job is a elctirc chainsaw.....don't waste time grinding..... cut the bad out..... be careful not to go too deep.....its fast and not so dusty......more chunky.

Ya they make a chain saw blade fir the grinder to. Watch them digits tho , no second chances haha

[mrichartz]

Ya they make a chain saw blade fir the grinder to. Watch them digits tho , no second chances haha

He's right...Yes work really well
Especially about the fingers too

450968

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F302874881394

[noli]

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I'm so scared of that, but I will try it





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[tnelsmn]

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I'm so scared of that, but I will try it

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Leave the guard on! But it's not as bad as it looks.

https://youtu.be/kkPXQ0d7iS0

[XstreamVking]

I have a grinder with a variable speed on it. You don't have to turn the saw disc 10k for it to work. I find that a slower speed works better for removing wood and core. Lot safer too.

[noli]

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I will def try it and be careful, thanks for the info guys!




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[noli]

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got the new jack and winch,



454324

[noli]

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The winch stand is coming and will move it so that its not in the way of the bow steps


454323

[noli]

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A buddy said not to rent truck for hauling your boat because the insurance will become null and void, so I got another new ride

2005 Ram 1500

vehicle build here --> https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?347309-Ram-1500-Hauling-Phismo_24-c02500wbd10312019


451910

[noli]

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its interesting how the wood core shows up when its all wet



452831

[noli]

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452832

[noli]

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bad weather is coming

got the shrink wrap frame in place

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[noli]

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[noli]

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[noli]

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[noli]

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[noli]

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[mrichartz]

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bad weather is coming

got the shrink wrap frame in place

454351

Damn coming? We had 14" of snow last week and I'm already sick if it... Winter over yet

[noli]

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wow, I heard there was a storm in the northeast whilst I was in Tampa


"...oh Spring, be nimble and come quick!"



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[noli]

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wood carving disk tools

comes in handy when removing the wood from the transom



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEyUsjAHPX8







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[mrichartz]

Small electric chain saw works really well too if you need to reach in.

[tnelsmn]

A Lancelot will be my goto for core removal on my next build. I used a combo of that and a Cutzall tearing mine down. Already dulled the Cutzall, at least I can keep sharping a Lancelot blade. They work well for this stuff, just be carful.

[noli]

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ok, I see the prices are very high for the Cutzall but will be a good combo to use

here is the chainsaw-type blade for $19....comes w/ extra chain

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[tnelsmn]

For the price of a Cutzall its kinda sad mine is dull already. It worked great and I liked the contoured grinding face. But its spendy and the fiberglass seems to dull it. If/when I build another boat I probably won't buy another one. I'll just use a Lancelot and 36g 5" grinding disks and 24g DA pads. Just my .02

[LakeFever]

Theres some no name offshore cuts all type disks on Amz for ten bucks. Bought a few, havent tried yet

[noli]

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[noli]

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my cat on the left, DCB on the right

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[noli]

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[noli]

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wakeup sleepy head, its spring time


I towed Skater-less to my house and will try to reuse the shrink-wrap for next winter's slumber


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[noli]

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got the shrink-wrap removed and undamaged


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[noli]

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gonna try these sawzall demolition blades


463452

[noli]

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cut the cap in half to get better access to transom and inner hull

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[noli]

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cap half, going to storage for now

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[noli]

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rotten transom, poor addition of secondary glass layers now delaminating

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[Pepperson4]

what material you pln on using for transom?

[noli]

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I'm enjoying your build Pepperson4!


this will be all composite build,

[transom]
2 sheets of 2 inch coosa on the transom, will be 4.5 inches thick when done,

[stringers]
heavy-weight foam upto 6 feet forward of transom, transitioning to lighter foam all the way to bow

[hull-sides and tunnel-sides]
light-weight foam on the sides and cap


[laminates]
intertwined carbon-kevlar

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[Pepperson4]

very nice. my transom was done in ply but it was 3" thick of wood lone so probably 3.5' thick when done, cant be tooo strong!

[kbirdmon]

Just saw this outside by the Delaware river like two weeks ago tops?

[noli]

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Day 1 transom removal (port side)

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[noli]

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[noli]

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made cuts with circular saw, then use crow bar to break off large chunks

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[noli]

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[noli]

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This tool works great, but I'm still scared of it --> #50 (https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?346952-noli_phismo_c04500wbd10122019&p=3181537#post3181537)

the remaining wood is very thin and will be removed using big grain sand paper to expose the fiberglass

466437








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[LakeFever]

Yep them things can get grabby and talk your arms for a ride. Looking good

[noli]

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...did about 1 hour of sanding today is all I had, gotta start the barbecues :)

the port side is pure glass now, the stbd side will need grinding with the chain-saw wheel, then sanding
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[noli]

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had to install a new tube on the vacuum chamber in order to catch resin from going into vacuum pump





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[noli]

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[noli]

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vacuum drop test on newly added resin-catch tube


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[noli]

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Vacuum test of the vacuum chamber is complete

with the hoses disconnected from the vacuum pump, and vacuum leaks plugged, a vacuum of -27.5 inches Hg has been maintained for over eight hours


next test: resin infuse laminates with cores

470296







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[noli]

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two parts for resin infusion


470731








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[noli]

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has anyone tried pre-wetted fiberglass cloth then vacuum bagging (not infusion) the transom core (ex. coosa) with the vacuum bag folded over the outside of the transom ?







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[noli]

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I put supports to lift cap and hull side to square-up the hull


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[noli]

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for testing purposes, took 2 small areas for the removal of delaminated fiberglass.


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[noli]

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after removing the loose delaminated glass, then sanding back to solid adhesion

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[XstreamVking]

I hate glassing over roving. I don't trust it's adhesion to the laminate after it has been flexed. Same thing with uni directional. Once you cut the strands grinding, it weakens the whole thing. But you can see what I can't.

[noli]

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What if I use epoxy?

Would the mechanical bond to roving be stronger?

I also plan to vacuum bag the new laminates.


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[XstreamVking]

Epoxy best, but vinyl is good too. Working time is real difference. Either with vac bag is good. Gets resin all thru old glass. Just investigate real good all the areas to be glassed over. Not saying it won't stick. Just that heavy fibers tend to be the ones that seperate. Less able to flex. That looks like 24 oz roving. Has mat under and between?

[noli]

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someone put a second laminate covering over the original roving (blue color). That second laminate is what is delaminating at certain areas.

This second laminate has mat under it.


I will investigate by doing test areas with vacuum bagging to see how well it adheres or will my test not prove anything (and over time it will delaminate)?




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[XstreamVking]

I hate to say it but you may find that the overlayment may have to be removed. I dunno. A test area is not a bad idea. Pick an area you think is good, and try it. I see a good bit of iffy glass. The original laminate should be good quality?

[noli]

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the overlayment is strong for most of the hull. I tried to rip off pieces at certain areas and I swear I'd probably rip a hole in the hull.

There are multiple weak areas though where the overlayment is delaminating or will delaminate with little pulling force. These are the areas I wish to concentrate on to remove the weak "bond" of the overlayment. And leave the areas alone where the bond to the overlayment is strong.


After I remove the weak-bond areas of the overlayment, what do you recommend I do before applying the foam core?






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[noli]

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found a nice article on secondary bonding to woven roving

https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/secondary-bonding-to-roven-woving.55294/








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[noli]

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here's a nice paper on sandwich composite panel joints...the butt joint is plenty strong!


https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1099636218792676







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[noli]

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here's a nice paper on secondary bonding procedures (adding new laminates on top of say, woven roving)

Note: this link is a PDF download link

guide to composites - Guritwww.gurit.com › media › Gurit › Datasheets › guide-to-c... (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj7rs3Xh6_sAhVxU98KHZt_A8cQFjADegQIAhAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gurit.com%2F-%2Fmedia%2FGurit%2FDatasheets%2Fguide-to-composites.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0I4iUcAlXzhgQzgI24vcVw)






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[starviper10]

Figured I'd share this resto link since you mentioned wet fiberglass vacuum bag laminations. Check out posts 529, 532, 533, and 611.

https://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/threads/project-stresseliminator-restomod-23-daytona.155360/page-11

[noli]

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She got shrink wrapped for winter 2020 ~ 2021


479701

[HydroSkreamin]

Figured I'd share this resto link since you mentioned wet fiberglass vacuum bag laminations. Check out posts 529, 532, 533, and 611.

https://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/threads/project-stresseliminator-restomod-23-daytona.155360/page-11

Hey, that's my boat!!:D

[noli]

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all covered in snow...c'mon 40 degree weather....arriving in 2 weeks!



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[NAVISPEED1]

Subscribed

[noli]

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back to the grind in 2021...wooohooo



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[noli]

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485832

[mrichartz]

So what are you doing keeping it or???

[noli]

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I'll keep working on her till she sells

OR

complete the rebuild, put an engine in the back and keep her ....muhahaha


hopefully the latter...









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[noli]

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I did some work on the transom today. I want to cleanup the transom core placement and around 10 inches forward of the transom for a clean surface for fiberglas to bite on



first, remove this lip remaining from the transom core removal


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[noli]

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done removing the lip


485974

[noli]

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removed some delaminated glass in front of the transom




485975

[noli]

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485977

[noli]

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This is what a 4" transom would measure out to be .. my plans for coosa transom


486001

[noli]

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gonna be a thick transom, but lightweight and strong ..


486002

[XstreamVking]

Plenty sturdy for sure noli. Good start, I always start at the trans. and go fwd.

[noli]

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continuing on with delamination removal along the transom tunnel

486214

[noli]

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486215

[CUDA]

Have you ever taken a ride in a 24 Skater?

Back In the mid 90's I went to Ft Lauderdale looking to buy a 24 with 2.4 Bridgeports

I was doing ok till he put it in a turn at 40 mph... It scared the chit out of me because the way they lean out and we were in a 3 foot chop

I could not get over the lean out, so I passed, that's why we wanted to make it wider and add a pod for center motor protection.

A good driver can deal with the porpoise with a slight turn and full throttles but no getting away from the lean out roll over feel.

What does you Hydrostream project need did you cut that one up?

[noli]

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never rode in a Skater 24, I understand it can be a handful


https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?336360-noli_hydrostream_c00500wbd06032018


the boat is still yours to purchase, but you have to pay the full amount (not partial payments) and ready to drive it away, otherwise the yard keeps charging me storage fees


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[JPEROG]

Noli,

That is a liberator hull correct?

Joe

[CUDA]

I really liked the way the wide body Hellkat finished the transom area with the extension and dropping the line.

[noli]

Noli,

That is a liberator hull correct?

Joe


I was told that the Pismo 24, built in Cali was from a 24 Skater.


I think they all originated from the 24 Skater somehow



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[JPEROG]

Yes, there were a lot of splash/copies--motion, liberator, predator, lightning, etc...

Joe

[noli]

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486332

[noli]

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486333

[noli]

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486334

[noli]

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I started grinding the transom some more and found more delamination

Anyone know what resin is being used here? I think it's a bluish/greenish color


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[noli]

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I put a small piece of 2by4 to show delamination

486578

[XstreamVking]

The blue green is just a dye added to show air pockets. The resin was prob a general purpose or a low profile laminating resin. I would reglass with vinylester resin for a good bond.

[noli]

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took a wooden wedge and removed the delamination on the transom

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[noli]

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486599

[noli]

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done removing

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[noli]

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486605

[noli]

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486606

[noli]

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cleaning up the tunnel-to-transom corner

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[Mark Poole ModVP]

I saw early in the thread you are going with a single engine. Cats don't like a single in the middle. Might want to consider twins even of they are smaller....like 150's.

[noli]

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started the transom template

I will be refining it so that both port and stbd sides are close to being equivalent


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[noli]

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487023

[noli]

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487024

[TraceF3]

Go to HD or Lowes and get a sheet of luan. Rip it down to 2 or 3" strips. Makes great template material.

[noli]

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Thanks for the tip, I'll do that when I do my other wreck..a 20 foot Hydrostream

This template is almost done. I'll be making a few adjustments to this strip template then I'll transfer this shape to a 1/4 inch plywood before I transpose once more to my coosa board


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[CUDA]

I believe 4 inch transom is over kill, what ever you use I would put some mat between them and install as one, a bunch of C clamps would be nice, mat is your friend for adhesion Vinyl Ester is a must, it is truly water proof and better adhesion.

[noli]

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I was thinking epoxy as the resin between the coosa and the transom skin and the middle layer, between the 2 coosa boards

then Vinyl Ester resin to cover the coosa's externally exposed sides



very rough cut of the template. It will be sanded and straightened and rounded






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[noli]

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487060

[noli]

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I'd like a 4 inch core because I'm thinking ahead. The next owner may want to put a pair of V8 motors weighing in at 500 lbs each (if that) I'd like this transom to be ready


the double thickness transom core also fits in 1 sheet of 4x8x2 coosa, so why not use it


here is a mockup of 4 inches of coosa core ..dang !


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[noli]

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487079

[CUDA]

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/986847-opinion-transom-core-thickness-1-50-2-25-a.html

[XstreamVking]

I would not mix epoxy and vinyl. I know some do it but not me. As far as trans thickness, I have a 3'' transom in all my boats. 4'' is Heavy duty.

[CUDA]

Vinyl and epoxy are cousins in the chemical world

Vinyl ester is great stuff in every way shape and form, It breaks loose the binder in mat making things move around where epoxy it will stay stiff.

[noli]

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getting the transom clamps ready


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[noli]

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[noli]

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494764

[noli]

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cutting the coosa board from transom template

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[noli]

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[noli]

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1st cut from a 2 inch coosa board

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[noli]

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2nd cut shall make it 4 inches + laminates = 4.5 inch transom


496091

[noli]

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first fitting of new transom

...needs adjustment

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[XstreamVking]

I guess you know to rough that stuff up good and wet it well before install?

[noli]

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compression tool for the installation of the coosa composite transom


508212

[noli]

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508214

[noli]

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remove wooden core on running surface


508286

[noli]

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508287

[noli]

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remove remains wood core



508424

[LOSTINJ]

TIP OF THE DAY , Put in dumpster already

[Aaronhl]

Nice project Keep posting pics

[mrichartz]

Never enough pics.. can't post to many!
Coming along..

[noli]

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bringing back the 24 home to begin more work



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[noli]

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working on deck

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[noli]

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wood core removal



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[noli]

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[noli]

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[noli]

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[noli]

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[noli]

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after removing the rotten wood core of the deck , the (half) deck was replaced back onto the hull using fiberglass tabs


526013

[noli]

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next , the transom needed to be prepped for coosa installation ... straighten the transom skin using a flat wooden surface

tabs on the hull-to-deck can be seen here also
526014