1987 Concord Mach II

[Mhall222]

I picked this boat up last night. Someone at some point spent a ton of money on this boat before it sat outside for who knows how long. Time to start tearing it down to replace the floor system and whatever else is in need or replacing. I think the stringers may be ok but I my find otherwise once I get all the flooring out. I have not found any core on the hull bottom as of yet but maybe there is some on the pad??? I just know I saw some threads where there was delamination due to rotten core but honestly this hull passes the tap test well as I hear nothing hollow anywhere. The transom sounds about as rock solid as it can but i guess still i may find some surprises once I tear into it further. I had read these boats were chopper gun boats but I see thick roven in the hull bottom and sides.

I have yet to look into what motor that is. Whatever it is, it has to be the cleanest powerhead I have ever seen even. I was told it was a 225 or maybe a 235 but the date plate is missing or painted over. It is a 25" motor so a jackplate may be nice to get it dialed in but the motor is already sitting on a 28" bracket so it may be too much already. I discovered something interesting just a moment again. I noticed that the trailer has No tongue weight at all and on the way home I stopped and bought 250lbs of play sand to load in the front of the boat to try to help out. Believe it or not that 250lbs in the nose of the boat only gave me about 10lbs of tongue weight which made for a slow exciting trip home. Turns out the bracket is filled to the rim with water. I have no idea how that would be in the bracket other than someone filled it trying to shift the weight back more. If the bracket is holding water and it is not leaking then there is no way water leaked into the bracket. There is no drain plug so I am going to have to pump the dang water out. That brought to mid an idea to use the bracket as a ballast tank if in fact it would help the boat perform better but I sure doubt it would do much other than add a pile of weight to an already heavy boat. If it would help you could make a pump system to fill and empty it as needed. :D Anyhow, Time to get back into tearing the carpet and flooring out. I am ready to see what I am up against as far as core and stringers go.

[Mhall222]

Being I can not find much info at all on these boats does anyone have any basic setup advice? Also I am assuming the hook was put in the hull on purpose as it all seem very consistent from side to side and down every strake it looks the same. The pad and strakes could use some work as everything is very rounded over so a little blueprint work on the bottom would be a nice improvement I bet. Any info that you can provide would be helpful for sure..

Thanks
Mike

[Mhall222]

The only code I can find on the engine is on the freeze plug and that seems to be no help in determining what motor this is. Anyone see anything in these pictures that could lead me to figuring out what motor this is?

https://i.ibb.co/ZHfKWgy/20190427-123756.jpg (https://ibb.co/gvrwzWs)
https://i.ibb.co/WvhfJPZ/20190427-125438.jpg (https://ibb.co/9HDW5V6)
https://i.ibb.co/nfzjyPg/20190427-125446.jpg (https://ibb.co/K7FWgK0)
https://i.ibb.co/mbt5ptj/20190427-125451.jpg (https://ibb.co/WGFvCFh)
https://i.ibb.co/XxshnDn/20190427-125741.jpg (https://ibb.co/CK7kj6j)
https://i.ibb.co/By6tsfT/20190427-125750.jpg (https://ibb.co/v3dHzcL)

[SS Minnow]

The bracket is filled with water?
What is that? You do not mean the bilge?

[SS Minnow]

As far as the motor, somewhere around late eighties Johson v6 (obviously)

Not sure as to specific identifying features for that model, but the tag for a serial number is right on the bracket near where motor bolts to bolt. Assuming that your is still there and un-obstructed of course.

Sorry I could not be of more help, but someone in here might know more.

Good luck, those are nice boats.

[Mhall222]

Yes the bracket itself was full of water. I did find a broke off plastic plug in the bottom so I drained it and now I have plenty of tongue weight.

[Mhall222]

I did a cold compression test and the numbers were between 95-100psi. After I hooked up water and checked to see if it would fire with a little either and sure enough it pop a few good times.

[JBS]

Google Concord and see what comes up.
The story I got years ago,was they got some old Checkmate hulls and modified them to their present boat?
I had a 23 outboard Checkmate and it was very similar to the Cocord ls 23.
The boat had a 300 outboard and struggled to run 65.

[Mhall222]

I thought I would try running the old Johnson before tearing town the carbs for a good cleaning. The tank was empty so I added some fresh fuel and she fired off but was running very rough. I knew something was just not right and sure enough the ground wire for the left side CDI had come out of the connector. After hooking the ground wire back up, I this is how it is running. It revs out pretty dang clean but it sure has a rough idle or is that normal for these older Johnsons?

https://youtu.be/IYkmkbVLZG0

[Mhall222]

I started tearing out the floor and this boat is going to need the works. Everything needs to be replace..Core, stringer, floor..and I may find he transom is in need of attention as well. Any idea what the value of a boat like this completely rebuild would be? I sure do not want to get more into this boat than It will ever be worth. The outside sure cleans up pretty good. There are some areas where the paint is chipping a little showing the original red metal flake gelcoat.

https://i.ibb.co/6Bfq6N9/20190427-194041.jpg (https://ibb.co/k1WPYMb)
https://i.ibb.co/W6V7Fh5/20190427-194050.jpg (https://ibb.co/f2DZtgF)
https://i.ibb.co/k6tS2Wx/20190427-194057.jpg (https://ibb.co/zHz4V0r)
https://i.ibb.co/QNKTVJ6/20190427-194100.jpg (https://ibb.co/cFrZ9yN)

[FMP]

Pull the cap, everything out front to back, the full deal , every nut and bolt.

[JBS]

Stick with your fishing boat,you have quite a project!

[Mhall222]

Stick with your fishing boat,you have quite a project!

great advice...:D too late though, I already own the concord and unless I can sell it for what I have in it, I will need to rebuild it...

[FMP]

I'd do it complete. Hang the motor on a stand. Pull everything out , all bright work, wiring, controls, windshield. Cap off, gut it all and start fresh. Rework the running surface as you want, sand and reshoot.
New ply behind all the vinyl, new vinyl, carpet. Do it all , no hurry and have a boat good for decades of further fun because you won't leave it outside full of frogs.
Good looking bow rider.

[90VIPER]

I own a Concord Mach II which currently had a 250xs on it and it'll run 80. Not the fastest boat you can get but I like it. You have the bracket so no additional setback is neccessary. I run 12 inches of setback and it's a good balance for speed and watersports. Good luck with the project.

[JasonRS]

Looks like a big project, but should be a cool boat when done. Wonder why someone would paint over red .metalflake? More than likely you will have more into it than its worth, but as said before, do it right and have a nice bowrider for years and years. Is that a 25" mota??

[SS Minnow]

Yes the bracket itself was full of water. I did find a broke off plastic plug in the bottom so I drained it and now I have plenty of tongue weight.

After seeing some of the additional pictures you added, you mean the motor mount bracket was full of water?
That would be a lot of weight. Probably coming in from the top, rather then the bottom, right?

Rough idle could be a few things. On something that old, I would replace the reeds. If you are going to pull the carbs, you are half way to the reeds.

[SS Minnow]

https://www.wholesalemarine.com/johnson-evinrude-c3-6-looper.html

Those CDI coil packs are for 86-87

[FMP]

Was thinking 26 maybe 27":D

[Mhall222]

Oh man, Anyone want to give me $3000 for this project? :D I have a little more in it at this point but I think I would let it go for that or otherwise I better get to rebuilding it or part it all out.. I figured the trailer is worth $1000, Bracket $500, Motor $750, and Hull with title $750.... Really the only thing this boat "needs" is the floor, stringers, and core repaired as well as fixing some of the seat bases and upholstery panels with new plywood. All the rigging, wiring and fuel system are all pretty nice and in great shape. All the fittings on the boat are nice and I do not see anything that really needs to be replaced besides repairs to the stringers,floor, and core.. I know I know...... Good luck to me on selling this project :D If anyone is interested I may even consider trades of various types..

[FMP]

You cannot do all the rest and not the transom, you just can't. She'd be sweet all light and solid!

[SS Minnow]

For the low low cost of $19.95 you too could own this project......

But wait........It gets better.........

The guy I bought it from says it only needs this...........and maybe some of that.......

It is not bad enough I got screwed. I am going to try to pass it along.

[Mhall222]

For the low low cost of $19.95 you too could own this project......

But wait........It gets better.........

The guy I bought it from says it only needs this...........and maybe some of that.......

It is not bad enough I got screwed. I am going to try to pass it along.


Oh come on now, You know this project is worth more than $19.95 :D

I am just going to jump on this and knock it out. I honestly do not mind such an in depth project but dangit, I hate itching all night long. hahaha I have 7 gallons of epoxy and lots of other building materials on hand that I might as well use now. I hate to say it but I bet every one of these Concords that spent any time outside uncovered has the very same issues this one has. There was water soaked up in every cubic inch of foam and although some of the balsa core is good a lot of it is not. It looks like the balsa really soaked up a ton of resin as some of it is rock hard and I can not scrap off. I hope this is not the case for all the core on the bottom of this hull. I am not positive but It sure looks like the stringers were placed on top of the core or maybe they just ran the glass from the core up and over the stringers..Anyhow, I Need to dismount the motor/bracket and I guess get this hull sitting on a good set of bunks before I cut the core and stringers out.

Does anyone have any idea if these boats had some obvious hook int he hull? I would assume it does or maybe the weak stringers are allowing the hull to flex up a little more than it should be? I can not find any pictures or info on if these boats had built in hook or not.

[FMP]

Here's some info if you haven't already searched it
https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?244362-Concord-Mach-II-Questions/page2&

https://m.facebook.com/ConcordBoats?fref=ts

[Mhall222]

Here's some info if you haven't already searched it
https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?244362-Concord-Mach-II-Questions/page2&

https://m.facebook.com/ConcordBoats?fref=ts


Thanks, I have exhausted google search looking for more info on these boats and even google is coming up short.

[FMP]

More links within those links. Brian and Fritz are the builders, and quality from what's been mentioned.

[90VIPER]

Brian has recently passed away so info is hard to come by. The web site has been down for over a year. There is a Concord owner's group on Facebook. My mach II hull does not have a hook. My cousin had a 22 magnum and the bottom blew off at 40mph due to a rotten core. That boat would run 80 also and he's lucky he wasn't running at speed when it came apart. He's jeepster21 on here, not active member, but posted some pictures.

[Mhall222]

I was in the process of stripped this hull down so I can haul it to the local landfill. After removing the windshield I stepped back and had the most horrible idea come to mind. I thought "this would sure be a sweet looking center console boat" :eek: Anyhow, I then went inside to call the landfill to get an idea of how much it is going to cost me to drop this hull off. Looks like $80 per ton and they would be glad to pull the boat off the trailer for me. :D I guess I could load it up with some other junk around my property that need to go to the dump and just get this boat out of my sight or I can put it over in the corner of the yard and maybe build it into a center console someday. The biggest issue with building it into a center console would be that the floor would have to be build pretty high if I made it self bailing otherwise water would constantly be coming in through the drains. I guess I could move some weight forward to get the boat to sit a bit more level but then it would never be as fast. Anyhow, That was my horrible Idea that i need someone to shoot down so I can get this thing dropped off at the dump. :D

[FMP]

I can't stand it when a restorable boat goes down the road. For what you have in it wrap it up and make it next winters project. You can only crush it once and then it's gone. Nice looking bow rider.

[mragu]

that would be a nice looking center console!

[JBS]

You might have an Idea going the center console route. Us Georgia rednecks have turned some decent go fast hulls into a sport utility type boat that can do it all.Just put new stringers,coosa floor, big gas tank,and a console.
Rock n roll!
I've have a 21 Paramount for 22 years and it can do alot.

[Mhall222]

You might have an Idea going the center console route. Us Georgia rednecks have turned some decent go fast hulls into a sport utility type boat that can do it all.Just put new stringers,coosa floor, big gas tank,and a console.
Rock n roll!
I've have a 21 Paramount for 22 years and it can do alot.

I am kind of leaning towards covering this thing up and coming back to it at a later day and messing around with the center console Idea. It wont hurt me to hang on to it a little longer and it may make a decent little boat setup as a center console. I know the Paramount 21 has a bit less deadrise and ultimately would have floated much shallower but still, maybe moving a little weight forward in this concord would result in a boat that floated a little more level. Of course I know the trade off of moving weight forward will be slower speeds but oh well. If and When I rebuild it, I can lighten it up a little here and there with Nidacore floor and coosa stringers and bulkheads. I read on NADA that this hull is 1200lbs but I read other places that is is way more than that, anyone know for sure? Anyhow, The biggest issue I see is having to get the floor high enough for a self bailing setup or either get the boat to float way flatter may work.

[Mhall222]

Yep, this hull would make a sharp looking center console for sure. Going to cover it up and maybe pull it back out someday to build it into something useful and hopefully fun..

[Mhall222]

I am curious, are most boats such as the Paramount 21, Action Marine 21 and like boats built with core or just stringer systems? I was wondering if some of these boats are build with only a stringer system could I not do the same with this Concord? Maybe those other boats have core but if not what would it take to build this concord without core? I was thinking a nice stringer/bulkhead system would be nice as I could add some room for storage and also be very strong. Again just wondering..

[JBS]

Stringer system. Check out the Paramount page on the Hull Truth.You will get a lot of good ideas

[keefallan]

off subject based on the previous posts, but if you rebuild the carbs on that motor, it will purr like a kitten. Gas gets left in the carbs.........dries up and becomes glue in there and clogs up stuff.

[Mhall222]

Stringer system. Check out the Paramount page on the Hull Truth.You will get a lot of good ideas


Trust me, I have viewed every single paramount 21 thread I could find online but I have not discovered if the hull was just enforced with the stringers or if they had core as well. I recall there being a thread on here at one time addressing the stringer vs core design but I can not find it now. I would much rather strip the old core from this Concord, then lay a fresh layer or two of 1708 down on the hull then come over it with a nice stringer/bulkhead grid system. I am just not sure that would be a better choice than core and the 2 stringer design that the hull now has..

[Mhall222]

Anyone know off hand what this dimension is on a Paramount 21? It is looking like the most I will have is about 15" if I move the floor up in this Concord to a height that would make it possible for it to be self bailing.

[Dave S]

Leave the floor low and a sump in the back with a pump. Or if ya want........4 poles and it's a shed.

[JBS]

Leave the floor low and a sump in the back with a pump. Or if ya want........4 poles and it's a shed.
Dave is correct.Do the floor like that.Go with a smaller console for more room too.

[gqchris]

Dont know if its been mentioned or not, but the motor looks like a Johnson 225 GT that my Baker used to have on it when I bought it. Same Model. It was an 87. I re plumbed the cooling to remove that Water Diverter valve that was leaking on mine. Helped a ton. See the pic. There are a few posts on Google how to do it. (I deleted my old bookmarks)

When I sold mine I had 80 PSI compression and she still ran. Good luck on your project!

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