New to me Etec 200 setup help

[McGinnis_Fishing16]

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum but have read a lot of great threads in the past. I'm looking for some setup help. I have a 97 Stratos 282 (18'3", 1400lb) bass boat that had a 97 Faststrike 150. The Faststrike blew up on me this past year so I ended up picking up a 2012 Etec 200 (non H.O.) and I have a couple of questions.

I'm looking for prop/gearing suggestions to get the most our of my setup.

My mechanic has custom gears that are 1.78:1 instead of the standard 1.86:1 and I'm just curious what everyone's thoughts are on which gears would work best for overall performance. I like to go fast however I know it's not a high performance hull, but I'd love to get 70mph out of it but I'm not sure that is going to happen. I also make a lot of long runs where I'm running 3/4 throttle to save on fuel.

My numbers with the Faststrike were:

24 Raker II
no jackplate
5200 rpm
60mph

I will be adding a 6" manual jackplate when the new motor is mounted.

[Dave Strong]

Stick with 1:86 gears. JMO

Dave

[Baja16]

I agree stick with the 1.86 gears. You wont have a problem finding tall enough props to keep the motor off the rev limiter with your boat/motor combo. The jackplate is a great addition, install a water pressure gauge if you dont already have one. Between the new motor, jackplate, and just spending time experimenting with props and different engine heights you should see a noticeable gain.

[David - WI]

I wouldn't spend any money on gears or a jackplate until you have a chance to run the thing with the new motor... the extra horsepower will probably get you to 70 mph by itself.

[Dave Strong]

I doubt 50hp will gain 10mph without a jackplate and some setup.

Dave

[McGinnis_Fishing16]

I already have the jackplate as I bought it just before my old motor blew up. I do have a water pressure gauge installed already. It sounds like I will be best to just leave the lower unit as is and start testing props to see what works best. The only problem is where I live it's hard to find props big enough in stock to test without having to order one because most guys run aluminum boats and fiberglass walleye boats. I was hoping with the 1.78 gears I could keep my existing 24 pitch prop and see where I'm at then get it worked if need be or at least know what size prop to look for. I'm thinking the 24 will be too small for the new motor but I guess I won't know until i give it a try.

[David]

I'd start with the stock gears and the 24 Raker you have. A prop calculator shows you were at 6% slip before, which might be a bit optimistic but not impossible. At any rate, 6000 rpm would get you close to 70 at the same slip. My theory is the extra HP and setback should do 70+.

Watch your water pressure with the jackplate. I bet you don't have to go high enough to get into trouble to optimize speed, but it would be better to know you have pressure.

[baja200merk]

I have a nice used 26 raker II its pretty tight (low slip) Pm me if your interested.

[McGinnis_Fishing16]

I'd start with the stock gears and the 24 Raker you have. A prop calculator shows you were at 6% slip before, which might be a bit optimistic but not impossible. At any rate, 6000 rpm would get you close to 70 at the same slip. My theory is the extra HP and setback should do 70+.

Watch your water pressure with the jackplate. I bet you don't have to go high enough to get into trouble to optimize speed, but it would be better to know you have pressure.
Good to know, thank you. What rpm range should I be looking for? I had 5800 in my head but if you say 6000 is fine that's good to know. I know they like to be at the top of the rpm range and I believe the limiter is around 6100rpm? I suppose if I am running a bit high in the rpm range I could get some prop work done (add cup or have it pitched to 25") if need be as it will be cheaper than buying a new prop and it will be better than a new one.

[McGinnis_Fishing16]

I have a nice used 26 raker II its pretty tight (low slip) Pm me if your interested.
I won't be able to run the boat until April at the earliest to see if I will need a bigger prop or not. Thank you though.

[David - WI]

I doubt 50hp will gain 10mph without a jackplate and some setup.

Dave

It will "on paper", it did on my 20' Enchanter, and it does in the Tunnelboat simulator software (150hp vs 200hp shows 52.8 mph vs 62.3 mph on a 1800# Stratos 21' bass boat)... but he would have to try it to find out for sure. :smiletest:

[Baja16]

Keep in mind that McGinnis was running a 150 Faststrike. Those Eagle motors are a pretty stout 150 so its not quite a 50hp difference between his old motor and the new one. But at the end of the day 70mph out of a 18' Bass Boat with a 200hp is very obtainable just gonna requiring some setup/testing.

[David]

My reasoning is speed is proportional to the square root of HP. It's true for aero and water drag, and close for HP. If the new engine is the small block 200 then it's probably a relatively weak 200. The 150 Fastrike may well have been a strong 150. So maybe less than 60Xsqrt(200/150). But the jackplate should offset that, so my money (ha!) is still on 70

The advantage of propping to hit max rpm with no load is you still have acceleration when the boat has a load. We have not hit 6000 with our 150 HO Etec but have come close. I think we have been power limited before we reach the limiter, so I am not taking my own advice about pitch. The rev limiter on the 115 HO we had before would hit 5850 most days, but occasionally more.

If you especially like looking at shiny props on your wall (I do) my suggestions would be a 24/25/26 Trophy with the BRP insert to run on your motor or a 26 Raker. But the right thing would be to try your current prop to set a baseline before spending money.

[nitro_rat]

the right thing would be to try your current prop to set a baseline before spending money.

:iagree:

[Dave Strong]

My reasoning is speed is proportional to the square root of HP. It's true for aero and water drag, and close for HP. If the new engine is the small block 200 then it's probably a relatively weak 200. The 150 Fastrike may well have been a strong 150. So maybe less than 60Xsqrt(200/150). But the jackplate should offset that, so my money (ha!) is still on 70

The advantage of propping to hit max rpm with no load is you still have acceleration when the boat has a load. We have not hit 6000 with our 150 HO Etec but have come close. I think we have been power limited before we reach the limiter, so I am not taking my own advice about pitch. The rev limiter on the 115 HO we had before would hit 5850 most days, but occasionally more.

If you especially like looking at shiny props on your wall (I do) my suggestions would be a 24/25/26 Trophy with the BRP insert to run on your motor or a 26 Raker. But the right thing would be to try your current prop to set a baseline before spending money.


The proportional thing goes out the door around 60mph.

Dave

[Gordon02]

McGinnis, I'm white haired and have been chasing this speed thing a long, long time now. Horsepower is only part of the equation.

You must "fly" not "float" your boat to go faster. Air is 814 times less dense than water, so going faster means getting the boat up and out of the water. I'm not a fluid dynamics engineer, but I've learned by asking, listening, trying hundreds of changes, and careful documentation and study of those changes.

There was a fantastic article that I read 20+ years ago on surface area and drag. I did not save that article (wish I had), but it explained the affects of drag in water. Using a standard sized gearcase and a modern performance 20 foot hull, the surface drag of the submerged lower unit was more than the boat's entire frontal area being pushed through the air. As I remember, that speed trade off was in the upper 70's. The point here is that you must focus on getting your boat's hull to perform it's best at the "magic" angle of attack of 4 degrees positive to the water's surface. Just as a waterski, this angle produces great hydrodynamic lift while minimizing surface drag of the hull. Moving weight to the back near the transom and careful use of your power-trim!

Getting your gearcase up and reducing the amount of it sticking down in the water is also very important. A water pressure gauge is absolutely required and don't be surprised if you'll need to plug the upper holes of the water inlets to prevent them sucking air. Don't jump to add LWP as extended gearcases generate even more drag than a stock/normal gearcase due to the longer surface (increased surface area). The real purpose of the extended (nose coned LWP) gearcase is to open the hole (V) earlier so that it closes ahead of the prop to prevent blowout of the propeller. Normally this occurs at 82~83 mph so you'll be fine with the stock gearcase as long as it can feed water to the powerhead as you raise. While you concentrate on the hull's angle, you'll need those high-rake props like the before mentioned Rakers and Trophy's. The Raker 24~26 pitch would be my choice unless you need the quicker holeshots of the 4 blades. My #1 prop of choice for all-round duty is the Trophy, but our boats are different.

If you want to get a better idea of water's affect on drag, do this simple experiment. Using an old, manual boat speedometer with a bourdon tube mechanism, apply different air pressures to the tube feeding the speedometer and you'll see the required pressures go up exponentially - nothing close to linear……If memory serves me, going 40 MPH took some 22 psi, but 82 MPH took 125 psi - 4 times more pressure to go 2 times faster, so it's not linear. Another quick illustration of drag - stick your hand out the window at 60 with your palm vertical. Now imagine that air was water and 814 times more dense - your arm would be ripped from your torso. Keep the fact that "water drag" is way worse than air drag then make sure you set-up to minimize it. Never think some trim is good, so more is better. You want 100% of your prop shaft thrust pushing forward and the hull surface at 4 degrees, so setting your trim gauge to monitor neutral trim +4 is worth memorizing and getting right. A hull at 8 degrees and your prop thrust pushing the stern downward more than doubles the amount of wetted surface and the load you're trying to push through the water. You want to go over it - not through it. I've made a little guide to finding neutral trim and you can use it to help you center your gauge around it.


Write down all the changes and study every result. There is no 1 propeller, 1 height, 1 setback dimension, 1 horsepower number that makes a boat fly. Be it 60, 70, 80, or 90+……it all takes careful set-up.

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[Gordon02]

I'll add this too - those high-rake props like the Raker will hold water very well at elevated heights as you fine-tune to reduce drag.
Be aware that you will have to maintain leverage in order to convert that forward thrust to bow lift. Trolling motors, storage lockers, gear, and passengers forward of the balance point all add to the weight that these props will need to lever. More setback will help to regain leverage lost when raising the outboard, but structural concerns may exist if 8", 10", or more are used. I've told a lot of new boat owners that it's addictive. Once you start chasing speed, you'll find yourself looking for that 1~2 mph more......next thing you know, you've bought yourself an Allison, STV, or Bullet, and some hotrod outboard to push it. Gordon

[McGinnis_Fishing16]

I'll add this too - those high-rake props like the Raker will hold water very well at elevated heights as you fine-tune to reduce drag.
Be aware that you will have to maintain leverage in order to convert that forward thrust to bow lift. Trolling motors, storage lockers, gear, and passengers forward of the balance point all add to the weight that these props will need to lever. More setback will help to regain leverage lost when raising the outboard, but structural concerns may exist if 8", 10", or more are used. I've told a lot of new boat owners that it's addictive. Once you start chasing speed, you'll find yourself looking for that 1~2 mph more......next thing you know, you've bought yourself an Allison, STV, or Bullet, and some hotrod outboard to push it. Gordon

Lots of good information here thank you very much Gordon. That all makes a lot of sense and makes me think of how often I have over trimmed just to get the lower unit out of the water and reduce the drag without a jackplate. Althought I did gain speed from over trimming I was really just transfer the drag from the lower unit to the stern of the boat. I'm really excited to get the motor mounted and start testing props.

One question I have is how do I find the neutral trim +4 degrees? Although I'm sure I will end up playing with the trim to find the sweet spot of my setup/load that day, knowing where neutral +4 is will be a good starting point.

[Gordon02]

The little drawing above should open up to full-size with a click. Chock your tires of course, then use your trailer tongue jack to level the pad - much easier if you have a helper, one to hold the level on the pad underneath and one to raise/lower the tongue jack. When your pad is level, then go to the cavitation plate above the prop and use the trim to level it. This setting is "Neutral Trim" - meaning that the prop shaft is neutral to the hull. This is where I like to set the center-line of the trim gauge. Anything above that while running is positive, anything below is negative.

4 degrees is not much and if you've ever installed door jams or kitchen cabinets, you've probably used those thin wooden shims from your favorite home store. Those shims are probably 4 degrees. One of the coolest and cheapest tools you can buy yourself is a plastic $2~$3 incline meter. These are useful for just about everything and every man cave needs at least 1. I'll post a photo of mine next time I walk to my shop. I started using one back when I was making exhaust and set-up for my race bike. I find that it's got 100 uses around the boat too. I also found "Angle Pro" for your phone in the app store and it's free.

Keep in mind that this 4 degrees positive is the theoretical perfect hull angle of attack and a 4 degree positive trim would have the propshaft sending 100% of it's available thrust forward - not up where it would push the bow into the water - not down where it would push the stern/transom down further both of which increase wetted surface and of course that horrible anchor called "drag". I'm glad I could be of help! Gordon

[McGinnis_Fishing16]

The little drawing above should open up to full-size with a click. Chock your tires of course, then use your trailer tongue jack to level the pad - much easier if you have a helper, one to hold the level on the pad underneath and one to raise/lower the tongue jack. When your pad is level, then go to the cavitation plate above the prop and use the trim to level it. This setting is "Neutral Trim" - meaning that the prop shaft is neutral to the hull. This is where I like to set the center-line of the trim gauge. Anything above that while running is positive, anything below is negative.

4 degrees is not much and if you've ever installed door jams or kitchen cabinets, you've probably used those thin wooden shims from your favorite home store. Those shims are probably 4 degrees. One of the coolest and cheapest tools you can buy yourself is a plastic $2~$3 incline meter. These are useful for just about everything and every man cave needs at least 1. I'll post a photo of mine next time I walk to my shop. I started using one back when I was making exhaust and set-up for my race bike. I find that it's got 100 uses around the boat too. I also found "Angle Pro" for your phone in the app store and it's free.

Keep in mind that this 4 degrees positive is the theoretical perfect hull angle of attack and a 4 degree positive trim would have the propshaft sending 100% of it's available thrust forward - not up where it would push the bow into the water - not down where it would push the stern/transom down further both of which increase wetted surface and of course that horrible anchor called "drag". I'm glad I could be of help! Gordon

Okay perfect, I guess as long as I know where neutral trim is I can adjust from there, Thanks or the help!

[Gordon02]

Here is a pic of the cheapo incline gauge. You can see that I've added a pencil to one end and got the 4 degrees showing. This one is my long-time favorite because it will fit over tubing with the V edge while the other is flat and has a large magnet. I use this thing all the time - even

making brackets for my favorite wallpaper! Gordon


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[David]

I have an incline gage as an I phone app

[joshuah40]

Start a separate thread. But first and foremost all motors need to be proped to at least get into the peek power curv which startes at 5500 so prop your boat to rev up to 6000 then work jack plate an trim after that and every prop size up is aprox 200 to 300 RPM

[McGinnis_Fishing16]

Start a separate thread. But first and foremost all motors need to be proped to at least get into the peek power curv which startes at 5500 so prop your boat to rev up to 6000 then work jack plate an trim after that and every prop size up is aprox 200 to 300 RPM

Good to know, thank you. I would love to be able to spin a 26 pitch prop to 5800rpm but I just don't think that's going to happen. I'm thinking my 24 will do the trick, might have to get it worked to a 25 or something but I won't know until I get the boat in the water in the spring.

[McGinnis_Fishing16]

I have an update, after spending some time running the boat with the new motor. I set the jackplate at 3 1/4" below pad to start and went up from there. The best I found was 3" below pad but I was only able to get 62mph at 5600 rpm. I tried going up another 1/4" and I gained a little bit more speed and rpm but I did loose some bow lift. It feels like I need a lot of positive trim to get my rpms up but I'm also surprised I can't spin the 24 Raker more than 5600 rpm.

I'm hoping some of the experts can guide me to where I need to go next as I am fairly new to setting up bass boats. I will say I run pretty heavy, 3 batteries, full tank of gas and 2 guys with a fair bit of tackle. I am considering maybe a new 4 blade prop for the stability or dropping to a 23 Tempest but I thought the 24 Raker should spin more rpm. I would be very happy if I could get 65mph out of my boat.

[Dave Strong]

I would try a Trophy, start with a 23 they carry weight well even at higher heights. May take some playing with the PVS vents and ring for the best holeshot. But that can be done after you get the top end dialed in.

Dave

[McGinnis_Fishing16]

I would try a Trophy, start with a 23 they carry weight well even at higher heights. May take some playing with the PVS vents and ring for the best holeshot. But that can be done after you get the top end dialed in.

Dave

Okay thank you for the suggestion, I was thinking either a 23 Trophy or a 23 Tempest. I'm just very surprised I can't turn more rpm with the 24 Raker.