Allison Grand Sport No hand on the pad lol

[whipper]

Took a clip today trying a RH 30 Cleaver very stable at speed . Cant belive i have never tryed one before i loved it!! it pretty windy and gusts in the middle so never took the last few bumps but 92 came easy. Great props! I took my hands off the wheel {briefly} haha but could have longer just didn't want to get out of shape just incase. But i would never do that with some props as your normally are always countering. :reddevil:
https://youtu.be/608akNQEXlU

[mikesufka]

A Merc Cleaver was all I ran on my first Grandsport/260. That was in the early 2000's, but I think it was a 14.5 X 28 ? Great boat.

MDS

[eli]

Cleavers are smooth over a round ear

[LakeFever]

Damn that looked great!

Hmmm I was avoiding buying cleavers because I heard they can lift the bow up a bit too quickly. Maybe thats a hydrostream thing? Now I see this and Im thinking maybe I should try one? Anyone have thoughts?

[MDRURY]

Cleaver is all I run on my GrandSport!!! well, I do use a 24" trophy for skiing, but that is not the same as running into the 90's.
I started with the 30 et prop, and did not like the bow high and sometimes "kiting" if trimmed too high. When I switched to the Merc Lab cleaver, and had Mercury take some of the tail lift out of it, I fell in love with it. Same top end speed as the 30 et. The boat runs very flat and there is no bow drop when letting off the throttle. OR when your motor "pops" at 90+ mph!! had that happen to me. It just glides and slows down. Yes, you still have some trim up and down capabilities, but you don't need much at all. When you add people in the boat, the speed drop off is more than round ear, and hole shot suffers, but solo, or with one other person it the boat, it is really nice.
When I was at the Allison Rally, and talking with Darris, he said the prop to use on the GrandSport was a cleaver, just no one does.
I am on the limiter 6,750 @ 93mph with a Mariner 200 SuperMag. Have run a best of 95.5 with a "kilo cut" 32" Merc Cleaver.

Michael

[whipper]

ya that was my first couple of hours with it and there was some lumps out there. i played around with shaft hight and found higher is better. i mean if it was calmer I may have liked 1/8 below but she was riding very high and was not wanting to pop the prop out of the water so i lifted it even and knight and day how flat and stable and still speed. i probably had at least two if not 3 bumps I could have gone more if not so windy. Was pleasantly surprised with the hole shot also. Not to shabby! In the clip i just eased it up but did make some wot hole shot starts and it got up and went pretty darn quick for a 30 anything. https://scontent.fyka1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41735551_10156812670100337_8036177294521270272_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&oh=dc8df046922ec0e6536e84dc649302bd&oe=5C6249AF

[David]

I always thought lifting the tail on an Allison was the wrong way to go. It does not suprise me that you could drive so easily. Sometimes I get the combinations of prop, engine height, and trim on my SS2000 so it drives very straight and true. Last weekend I was at WOT 86 and not steering at all. More trim/height required for the 90's I guess. I'm just getting used to the 200XS and sportmaster.

[whipper]

David yes exactly. It had WAY to much tail lift when below the pad. I had to raise the prop so it was working were it was designed. At least half in and half out. When run as a surfacing propeller the lift for a GS any way isnt anything out of the regular. But handeled higher prop shaft hights much better than many other props. Thats probably why they are so fast on top and have such little torque steer.because only half the prop is ever in the water and the knife like blades enter so smooth with little twist in the blades?
Oh ya if I ever wanted one of those frontal shots were the Hull is flying completely out of the water all as I would have to do is lower this prop to 1/4 below. haha When I first had it there you probably could have run a 2x4 under the stern! haha First thought was i was ready for lift off!!! As i went up ech time got better and better untill i found a good spot that felt more familiar.

[MDRURY]

When I first tried my Merc Lab Cleaver, it did exactly what you are describing. I have never been one to run even or above, I stay 1/4" - 3/8" below. The tail lift was too much, so I sent it back to Mercury to remove some of the lift, similar to how the "kilo" prop was made, just not cut as thin on the blades. Now I run 1/4" below and it is rock solid hold and smooth as ever. Trim up and down is predicable and works. I did raise the motor up to even, and got 2 more mph, but it is a very loose feeling to me. Loose is fast, but not what I want for everyday running. With 1/4" below, I can run in the ruff water or glass water with no ill effects at all, and still get 91-92 out of it.

The "kilo" prop I am referring to is the one that in the late 90's that Jayco used to set all the records with that were in the Merc brochure at that time. He was done with that prop, and sold it to me. It lasted about 2 years before throwing a blade. I had Merc make me another one. It lasted about 2 years and threw a blade. After spending $1,500 each for them, I decided to drop down to a 30" Lab cleaver with thicker blades, and have had this prop for the last 10 years without any problems. A standard size cleaver with thick blades would need the lift taken out of it to run on lite hulls, or do what you have done and run it higher out the water.

There was way back 20 years ago Baker or someone ran a 32" cleaver on a stock 225pm w/ 1.75 gears on a GrandSport, and got 101 out of it with 1-1/2" above pad. I don't know the exact details of it, but that is why I switched to using a cleaver.

[Cervelo777]

Whipper, tell me again how much lip you are running? MDRURY I would be interested to know how much lip is on your boat as well. I find that as I reduce lip, optimum engine height goes up.

[MDRURY]

I just had mine blueprinted at the Allison Factory this summer. I had the old style pad 1998 model at .090 lip. I also had a bump about 5" forward from lip, and rounded edges on the chines.
I only thought that my boat ran smooth and handled good, till now. It is a very noticeable "crisp" difference. No speed increase, cause I am on the limiter, now and was before.
The lip is now .050, and all the edges are very sharp. I went from running 1/2" below, up to now 1/4" below. I am not interested in running any higher, cause I don't like the "loose" feeling. Yes, loose is fast, I tried it, but 92 vs 94 does not matter when on the limiter anyway.
I did ask Darris why was my boat was so bad, and that I had it since new. He said they work fine out the mold, and it is an option to have them blueprinted. The race boats come that way, but the Bass and GrandSports do not.

I just sold my 200 Supermag, and I plan to re-power next spring with the new Merc 225hp V6 4-stroke. I will have to cone the lower unit, add solid mounts, and possible gear ratio change, if they don't offer that new by first of next year. Then, I will chase the 100mph mark!!!

[mikesufka]

Interesting that Darris said run a Cleaver on the Grandsport - in the late 90's, everything I read was the prop of choice was a Mazco RE3 in 26 or 28 pitch, depending on motor.

I wish Darris would write a book - can you imagine the stories he could tell...

MDS

[whipper]

Whipper, tell me again how much lip you are running? MDRURY I would be interested to know how much lip is on your boat as well. I find that as I reduce lip, optimum engine height goes up.

Sorry been a year haha I gota stop being so busy and start getting back to fishing and boating more!! Im working on it. To answer your Q I have not a clue!! haha Well ive redone it my self so many times trying different stuff all as I know is I like this last rendition i did. Its sanded and moulded down pretty far though I can tell you that. i went flush flat no lip and started testing with a 28 Drag3 every other day different heights until I was happy. I also experimented with one side a little lower on the far edge to off set the counter rotation pull from the prop on the stern a little. Sharpened all the edges except less sharp in the areas were the water has to feed the prop partially so the spray doesn't interfere with flow. i had my gopro setup at top speeds so i could study the flow patterns with each lip job. I wasn't aimlessly just throwing Marine Tex on there. it actually took years to get right haha Or as right as it is for me. My GS drives like a lambo on steroids with a 225 pm so i cant see how much better i could get. :) If i knew how to accurately measure what I have i wish I could then I would get those dimensions put into Cad and patented it haha i might add I started off with a tricked out 200 case that gave up the ghost on me and i replaced it with a stock 2 hole CLE . i also did alot of mods to that it is no longer stock. I put an Allison skeg cut on it blunted sanded reshaped every were needed to work right behind an Allison. The little cubby CLE likes to be run on the surface and really acts like a second hull at speed. So when riding up there at EVEN or so the cleaver is an obvious choice. And if memory also serves me correctly i Talked to Baker on the phone about him running a cleaver to 101, 102 with a 225 Grand Sport combo. I remember he told me the secret is to find a high rake cleaver. Like the Older Mercury Cleavers used to be. Didnt he also run a CLE? hmm MDrury sounds like thats something you've created out of the currant models of Cleavers. Nice one!! :cheers: My seat base is turned side ways so I drive solo more centred with very little counter weight also. like 10 lbs unless I just had a milk Shake and a hamburger. Then I would need to add another few pounds to it. haha.. Im going 300xs next chance i get. I need another challenge. Wish there was a way for me to easily like drop of the boat with the motor on and get a re ring close buy and I would go 260/280 next motor in a heart beat!! Getting the block sent out on a pallet and shipped far far away and re resembling my self every couple of years isn't what i want to do haha. So 300xs it will be at least we have a dealer hear. But not good enough to trust with a 2.5 haha

[Cervelo777]

Whipper,

Any chance you would want to make the trip to Lake Shasta for the Western Allison Rally? Since, I am still kinda the new guy, they have made me the sort of a figure head president. We have a lot of fun, relax and geek out over Allison stuff, we have a couple Strokers, and a Bullet that we adopted, they are great guys. We have invited Tim Bostic out but sounds like he might go to Loto.

[whipper]

If the roads have no snow and ice on them by may haha Maybe. :rolleyes:

[H20WKD]

Hi Whip...Erie ain't froze yet, but Winter still SUX.


https://i.imgur.com/SiXZ5DW.jpg


Bob

[SSTOM]

I like a clever on my SS they are fast props with very little torque on the wheel.

[16ft superboat]

This upcoming weekend I'll be trying a 28 Merc cleaver on my GS. Very curious on the outcome compared to the choppers and ets and hoss I tried

[gfinch]

Whipper will show about the same time The Sack O Cats does. AKA.... Sack O Parts.

[David]

John Tiger did a SS2000/260 prop comparison in Hotboat way back when. One of the props was a Mazco offshore cleaver
"too much tail lift"
"acceleration not nearly as good as round ears"
"interesting (hair raising) handling at 110 plus"
"at times the entire stern lifted free of the water and moved over several feet"

OK, I don't go near that fast and maybe it was the wrong cleaver.