Too much of a project?

[hunting326]

I am looking at purchasing a used 02 Liberator 25. The transom and floor (forward of the rear seat) have been replaced. There are still signs of rotten wood in other parts of the boat. Dash is pretty soft and looks bad. Front bulk head, and into the sponsons. Its a pretty decent deal just don't want to get into the boat and have to replace everything. Not in any kind of order and some are upside down.
Dash415023Bulkhead415024Sponsons415025415026415027415029415030415031415032415033Side 415034

[Davidlake]

That boat is roached!

[hunting326]

Kind of what I was thinking, just didn't want to pass a good deal.

[XstreamVking]

If there's a good glass shop near you and if the price was right, you could still get what you want. At least after the rebuild you would know what you had, and could have custom touches added to it. How's the outside look?

[hunting326]

Outside is in pretty decent shape, it's yellow and I'm not really a yellow fan so eventually I was going to get it changed to white. I'm trying to get a price on repairs just don't know how much it's going to be.

[Bodhi]

The first boat I bought like that was a 16' Searay bowrider, tore every splinter of wood out of it and rebuilt it. Learned alot, knew the boat inside and out, and trusted the hull afterwards. So if you have the time it'll save you many thousands of dollars to do the hull yourself. And since our village idiot Tunnels is gone from the fiberglass section....you can get tons of good tips and answers through the project.

[nitro_rat]

since our village idiot Tunnels is gone from the fiberglass section....you can get tons of good tips and answers through the project.

:iagree:

I think the seam on the top cap runs right through the middle if the transom on those. It will probably be best to split it, replace all the wood and then glass the transom smooth once it’s back together!

[hunting326]

Nitro, you are correct and that has already been addressed with the new transit and floor. The price ($13,500) is pretty decent I feel just don’t know what all will be involved.

[JPEROG]

You better take it to a good glass guy and lock in on a price. From what the pictures show, it has a long way to go. The materials that have been used by liberator in the past should be a crime.

Joe

[hunting326]

So what are y’all thoughts? Is it too far gone or still salvageable with some work. The price is Hull trailer and motors ready to go, but I don’t want to run the boat until I get a handle on exactly what all is bad.

[Hot Shot Merc]

I say run for the hills. That boat is and looks like it was always was a piece of junk. Every time you try and restore a boat you will hate your decision about half way through and when its done and you lost your ass you will say"I'll never do that again" :eek:

[delawarerick]

:iagree: but yet we do it again and again

[gotboostedvr6]

I'm itching just looking at those photos. PTSD style.

[hunting326]

Decisions decisions

[JPEROG]

Decisions decisions

Its not really a hard choice yet. If you are going to do the work yourself then its one thing (all you need to beware of is the cost of materials), but if you are going to have someone else do all of the grinding, re-core, and glass work then you better come to an agreed price with someone that is capable and someone that will hold to their end of the agreement. I can easily see 15K being put into the (just the structure) of that boat (this is not including the running surface & they are also balsa core). If you were to use the materials that I personally use on my projects (airex core, carbon and epoxy) it could be considerably more. Then you have paint or gel, then interior, then wiring, steering, rigging, etc.-50K goes by quickly.

The next thing to consider is what this project will weigh when you are all done. My guess is that you will end up with a really heavy patch rig. So if performance is a concern, then the repair work and correct materials really become critical. Anyone can build a strong boat-very few build a light weight strong boat...

At the end of the day you still have an old liberator that will be hard to sell. If you are planing to keep the boat forever and or do something strictly to your liking then the money doesn't matter (that is what most of my stuff turns out to be).

Joe

[hunting326]

I get what you are saying and I appreciate the straight answer. I have never done any kind of fiberglass work so I would more than likely have to bring it to someone. I would be getting the boat ready to go for $13,500, but if it’s going to be north of $15,000 just for repairs I might look elsewhere.
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[Gorilla0178]

https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?298064-Rotten-25-Liberator

Sent you a pm.

[2.5-21]

It is getting more and more difficult to do these type of restorations due to the cost of materials and rigging parts because you know once the boat looks good you will be re-rigging it too!

[hunting326]

Well I have always been told I was hard headed, I went and got the boat. I got a good start ripping out the rotten wood upfront. Man this sucks but hopefully it will be worth it in the end. Gorilla that was my cousin’s old boat, I will be referring back to that thread frequently during this process.
415228

[2.5-21]

Gotta wonder what kind of wood was used? thats a well protected area unless the boat is left full of water!

[XstreamVking]

Cabins get very humid and hot. Perfect for the micro organisms that eat wood. The wood must have been interior grade. If your gonna use plywood, you have to use marine ply. I would suggest that you remove and replace as you go. Break it up into smaller projects and do one area at a time.

[hunting326]

Southeast Texas weather is very hot and humid. My thinking is get it tore out to the bulkhead where the previous owner put in the new floor and go from there. The rotten stuff was very easy to pull out but starting to get to the not so bad stuff and it’s tough.

[WILDMAN]

That boat had to be sunk or full of water for the gunnels to get waterlogged. All MY new Liberators have composite transoms and bulkheads.

[JBS]

Run. Pay up for a good one.

[Gorilla0178]

Well I have always been told I was hard headed, I went and got the boat. I got a good start ripping out the rotten wood upfront. Man this sucks but hopefully it will be worth it in the end. Gorilla that was my cousin’s old boat, I will be referring back to that thread frequently during this process.
415228

Well they both seem to be made out of the same wood. I've seen pics of newer ones and they look to be Nida core or similar. But at one time some of them got a batch of non marine grade ply. The balsa all looked to be good on the one I did.

[Gorilla0178]

Feel free to contact me if you need info.

[hunting326]

Thanks man. I do have a quick question for you, what did you use to cut out the old bulkhead?

[Gorilla0178]

I cut most of it apart with a vibrating tool. Occilating tool or whatever you call it. Can get real close to the edges, most of it was cutting where the gap between the wood and hull was. So only cutting through the glass. Cuts slow but not too much of a mess. If it was through a lot of wood and glass the sawzall took care of it.

[hunting326]

Thanks, I’ll have to go buy one tomorrow. I have been using a sawzall but need to get close to the edges to clean everything up. Got the front “cabin” about 75% tore out, man what a mess. Slowly making progress but still have a long long road ahead of me.

[JPEROG]

Make sure you check the running surface completely front to rear. When balsa gets wet, its junk. If I had run this skater and had the outer skin break, the whole thing would hydraulic, delaminate and sink. That would have been the best case scenario. Worst case would be if I had passengers and who knows what the boat does when it comes apart under speed.
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Joe

[Gorilla0178]

Could you tell it was rotten through the glass? All the balsa looked dry and good in the one I did. Hopelully it was. Didn't have any areas that looked to be wet. And the plugs I drilled in the wettest part of the boat were perfectly dry.

[2.5-21]

https://suenosazulesmarinesurveying.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/189.jpg

[Tango]

I am happy to see you are working on this project... most people would have abandoned it for the safety sake. Just remember when working with composites, start with a cold shower afterwards... this will keep your skin pores closed and reduce inflammation from the particles getting in. After years of building composite aircraft, I learned how to keep the inching and rash from this kind of work to a minimum. There are cremes you can buy which help while doing the work... but in Texas, its best to get long-sleeved, sportswear designed for wicking away moisture as the best defense. You can use those rubber bracelets people use for donations or benefits to help seal your sleeves and pant legs.

[JPEROG]

Could you tell it was rotten through the glass? All the balsa looked dry and good in the one I did. Hopelully it was. Didn't have any areas that looked to be wet. And the plugs I drilled in the wettest part of the boat were perfectly dry.

I discovered a soft spot then started drilling to pull samples and found out just how far it had traveled. I will never own another boat with Balsa core. There is no reason to deal with these issues when we have multiple choices of closed cell synthetic core materials with specific density ratings that are so much more advanced. The other issue with balsa is that only lives up to so many blow cycles before it turns to powder (all of the core materials have this issue but the ratings on airex Vs balsa-as an example- is miles apart). The cost is also miles apart but you only build it once. I will have the only skater around that is 100% wood free by the time its done "if I live long enough to see it-LOL".

Joe

[hunting326]

Got the front all tore out thanks to my new Dewalt oscillating tool. That thing is worth every penny. I didn’t plan on redoing the floor but I cut a piece out to check what was underneath and found that it was just put on top of the old floor. Looks like I’ll be taking that up also.
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[JPEROG]

Got the front all tore out thanks to my new Dewalt oscillating tool. That thing is worth every penny. I didn’t plan on redoing the floor but I cut a piece out to check what was underneath and found that it was just put on top of the old floor. Looks like I’ll be taking that up also.
415540415543415544415545415546

Support the outer skin of your tunnel so that you don't loose your shape and DON"T use any type of wood as you are replacing material.

Joe

[hunting326]

Well I haven't posted in a while but made a lot of progress with the boat. After getting the boat completely empty and removing all the bad wood I sent the boat to Dave at Liberator and got all new composites installed. All bulkheads were redone as well as the floor and the knees. I have a few other things to do before I start putting it back together. I am hoping to be done by the summer so I can finally enjoy it.

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[rock]

Good for you. Looks nice.

Rock

[tnelsmn]

That looks great! Looking forward to seeing it come together.