Log in

View Full Version : You Don't Need It Until You Do..A Lesson That I Almost Learned The Hard Way



Gordon02
07-09-2018, 11:06 PM
Most of us make dumb mistakes... Fortunately, we live through them and learn something valuable. This is one lesson that I learned and now feel that I need to share in hopes that more will “Fix” the problem. I have corrected the problem on my 2 boats and more importantly, have gotten my friends to make these changes on their boats too.


First, I have been on the water and owned boats for more than 45 years now and never thought I would be in the situation that I tripped into last year. This could have gotten much worse had it been my son, my neighbor, new owner, or any less experienced operator using my boat that day. I can only imagine the outcome of a new owner of a brand new boat. My situation could happen to anyone and to any fishing/closed vessel.

I took my neighbor on the lake in my Allison bassboat. We left the ramp and were out doing several starts/stops with him in the drivers seat. The purpose of the outing was to get him some experience with a foot throttle (Hotfoot) as we were rebuilding his Norris Craft and he was not sure if he wanted his own Hotfoot installed. 20 minutes later I took the wheel and immediately noticed that the boat was sitting low in the water. I quickly jumped up and lifted the bilge locker lid and my heart sank – my Allison’s bilge was almost full of water. The batteries were covered. And the water was still coming.


Well, when I put the boat in the water at the ramp at the start of our trip, I accidentally pressed on the LiveWell pump.at the bow. It’s job is to fill the livewell with lake water continuously. The large “overflow” hose inside the livewell was blocked and did not allow water to drain. The livewell filled, then continued to overflow into the bilge area. This and other bassboats with all of their lockers,lids, and multi-level floors hide what’s going on underneath. I was in trouble and didn’t know it.


Here is where things went very wrong – The bow panel switch for the livewell took priority over the timer-controlled switch /knob at the helm. Nothing I did at the helm would turn the fresh water pump off – water was still coming in! I did not know that I’d accidentally turned it on and certainly didn’t know the helm switch had no over-ride control to switch it off. The bilge pump switch was on – I’d flipped it up as soon as I found the water in the bilge,but there was little/ no progress.

If I cut the main power, I’d lose the bilge pump…think…think…think….I pulled the livewell fuse from the bow panel and stopped the source. I fired up the big engine and headed to the ramp – if I was going to swamp my favorite boat and have to swim, I was going to get closer to the ramp – not a mile away.

Well, I’m here telling you about all of this so we did make it to the ramp and were able to get the boat loaded onto the trailer. Water drained for hours, I had to pull everything out of the lockers, bilge and check the batteries. I forced air into the bilge and lockers for more than a week.

What I found was that my bilge pump had a broken fitting/housing where the hose attaches. The pump was pumping as my ear confirmed, but at least half of what it pumped was going right back into the bilge. – The pump is factory mounted under the fuel tank, so you’d never know this. Yes, I think that stinks, but hundreds are made that way.

The Fix? (and please do plan yours today and get it done on an urgent basis).


1) I installed a brand-new Johnson cartridge pump with an automatic switch. 1,200 gallons per hour. Lots of water capacity and an “auto switch”.


2) While the bilge has a manual switch at the helm as stock with power being switched/circuit protected from the starting battery, but I also took 12V power for the automatic float switch feed from the trolling battery. Its live 100% of the time and will run the pump anytime water exceeds the preset level of the float switch (about ½ “).


3) I installed a bright RED LED into my dash – right there beside the tachometer where I can’t miss it! The light comes on anytime that the bilge pump is on. Whether it’s on from the manual switch or the auto-float switch – that light tells me that my bilge pump is running.


Why the bright Red LED? I want to know any and every time water is in my boat’s bilge I can’t let those lockers and multi-layered floors hide that from me again. ever. If that light comes on, I’m going to find out WHY immediately. I’ve got one boat with all the fancy space-age materials of the Allison and then my fully rebuilt Arrowglass cat fishing boat with new composites and new fittings, but both have hoses and fittings that can come loose, break, or fail. The $4 plastic fitting on the livewell pump is the only thing keeping water on the “outside”. I want to know the if and when…..and a few feet of wire and less than $3 for an LED gives me that. Install an auto switch and the LED so you’ll know too.

Gordon/RTS

nitro_rat
07-09-2018, 11:15 PM
Yeah, the transom mounted live well pump on my Varmint cracked/broke this year. My bilge pump also quit. It's important to keep an eye on stuff like that! Having a couple extra plugs that fit the OUTSIDE of your live well fill and drain fittings stored in a convenient location you can easily reach can at least stop the flow in most cases even if you have to go swimming to install them!

flabum1017
07-09-2018, 11:29 PM
For those live well intakes, would be a good idea to get a bronze intake and sea valve so you a) won't have plastic to break at the hull and b) can shut off the flow of water. As for bilge pumps.... always have TWO. one small one and one big one. I usually use a 500 gph to get the most water out and a 2000 gph for swamp events......... and if you got two batteries, put them on separate batteries. and don't foget the $5 bail out bucket from Bass Pro :D

As for the timer.... put an over ride switch in so you can shut it off too (even with a shut off valve at the live well intake)

roadkill636
07-10-2018, 06:27 AM
I too also insalled a 2ed automatic pump wired directly to the trolling motor batteries for just such an instance.

rock
07-10-2018, 07:28 AM
Well Gordon I am glad all went well in the end. Love the idea of the light and flabum's idea of no plastic. Now let me tell a story about the automatic switch.

We fish Kentucky Lake once a year. There are several boats involved with covered everything. My Allison, a Ranger, and a Bullet. The Bullet is 22' with my old 300xs and is mint. Mike, the bullet owner, calls and tells me his boat is broke. Trolls to nearest marina and we get trailer to pick him up. Pull boat out of water to check lower unit as he states his motor runs fine but will not go. Check lower shifting from forward to reverse and verifying prop is locking in gear. Put boat back in water and nothing. I decide the lower needs to be opened up to see what was happening so we load boat and call Merc dealer down the road from cabin to see about renting a tool to remove carrier in order to see what is going on. It's a little after noon and owner tells us we can use tool in parking lot but not until his tech returns to be sure it will be available. Fair enough so we are sitting around waiting for him to return. With all of us sitting next to boat at a picnic table I notice what looks like smoke coming from rear of boat. Takes about 3 seconds and smoke has become obvious so we scramble to disco all batteries. After a few tense moments we start our investigation only to find that his bilge, which is also under huge, nearly full, plastic tank, has fried and caught fire. This is day one of a week long trip so he wants to disco power to bilge and run it like that. I refuse to do anything to boat till I see for sure what issue is and they in turn rent a boat for remainder of trip.
So we get this boat back to shop a week later and start to remove gas tank and lower. Turns out the auto switch on bilge had filed with bilge gunk and locked in the "pump" position causing switch housing to catch fire and melt. This could have happened anywhere from on the way to the lake being towed at 75 mph to on the water in big waves to in the marina next to 20 other boats. We could not have been any luckier to have had it happen while we were sitting next to it. Had we been inside waiting for marina to call we never would have known. Ended up finding lower had split pinion ruining drive shaft but with both halves still in place when we tried to turn prop it sure felt like it was locking in gear which I guess it was but it sure wasn't going to push a boat. Moral of story is I don't trust an automatic switch and sure don't like the idea of a potential fire source under a plastic gas tank. We got very lucky but that don't always happen. Be safe guys.

Rock

Gordon02
07-10-2018, 09:44 AM
Rock this definitely could have gone much worse. The only thing I'd add to this is that the Red LED on the dash would have told you that the pump was running. From now on, I'll have that light installed and if/when it ever comes on - I'm going to investigate. Buried deep under the floor or under the fuel tank, these are not something you're likely to hear running. I wish the factories would take this issue more seriously. Here is another shocker- the wiring for my old bilge pump was cut/rubbed nearly in two from poor routing and placement. Why would more attention and care for something so important not be better protected?

Fixed now. Lesson here is to check and make it right. Gordon

home made tunnel
07-10-2018, 06:35 PM
I don't trust the automatic bilge switches - especially the cheap ones.
For that same reason... Bilge Gunk.
Auto pumps are fine for those boats that stay at a nice clean dock.
But those who trailer, and have pollen, leaves, sand, mud, gravel, and everything else being washed down into the bilge after use, like us trailer guys do, who live in the woods.... I dont' trust them.

KIRCHNER
07-17-2018, 10:31 AM
ALMOST falal sunset cruise. pulled my 23 donzi to fill station to gas her up. fill cap is located next to flush rod holder. boat sits pretty high when on trailer. i reach up unscrew filler. grab station hose, reach up locate open hole by feel[ cant see actual cap ] stick in nozzle and pump 30 gals in. ok lets hit the ramp. just before launch for some reason i stopped while boat was on slope to drain any bildge water out. no water raw gas. i had pumped 30 gals down rod holder directly in bildge. boat was full of gas 350 chev sitting in pool of 93. had i turned the key four of us would & boat would have been 1 big fireball. funny i never drain bilge before always at end on day. thank god i opened the plug and smelled gas. i couldnt sleep all nite, i would have killed everyone had an angel on my shoulder that nite.

roadkill636
07-17-2018, 02:00 PM
Wow thats scary......

Dad and grandpa filled up a 26' bayliner 35 gallons or so and got to the ramp and the builge was full of all the gas also. The aluminum tank split and drained it all out.

I always leave my plug out whenever the boats are on the trailers.

Dave S
07-17-2018, 02:33 PM
A 1911 is my should had........HeeHee

dgscroggs
07-17-2018, 04:31 PM
ALMOST falal sunset cruise. pulled my 23 donzi to fill station to gas her up. fill cap is located next to flush rod holder. boat sits pretty high when on trailer. i reach up unscrew filler. grab station hose, reach up locate open hole by feel[ cant see actual cap ] stick in nozzle and pump 30 gals in. ok lets hit the ramp. just before launch for some reason i stopped while boat was on slope to drain any bildge water out. no water raw gas. i had pumped 30 gals down rod holder directly in bildge. boat was full of gas 350 chev sitting in pool of 93. had i turned the key four of us would & boat would have been 1 big fireball. funny i never drain bilge before always at end on day. thank god i opened the plug and smelled gas. i couldnt sleep all nite, i would have killed everyone had an angel on my shoulder that nite.my buddy did same exact thing , was like his 5th time out in his boat I went into gas station to get ice and went into the back of the boat to put ice in cooler while he was pumping , caught em about 20 gallons, in once we drained it we got a pretty good laugh out of it

home made tunnel
07-17-2018, 09:51 PM
So what do you do with 30 gallons of drained bilge-tainted eggbeater fuel? Was the oil mixed in too? lol!

Li'l Toy
07-17-2018, 10:15 PM
Lots of bilge pump discussions over on the Hull Truth for people with bigger boats, some live in the water. Consensus is that, mounted higher than the "regular" pump, you have that high capacity pump that only kicks on when there is water where it should not be - like FlaBum suggested. They tend to like a light or even a horn on the higher pump, water in bilge is normal but when it gets up over 2" or 4" you have trouble. And they have a lot more through-hulls than we (though I guess bass boats must have them for livewells, etc.) and carry at least one cork or similar stopper that can be inserted from outside for every through-hull.

I have weird overkill--there is no connection between the three "bilges" in my pod tunnel, so I have a little pump (auto spin, not float switch) in each hull. Worse comes to worse, if pump in one bilge dies as soon as it overflows into the next one I am covered, or I can move one of the pumps. But my hull is open enough we learn about water where it doesn't belong pretty quick.

I miss the day of a little tiller outboard where you insert the plug from inside, and if water gets in you just plane off and pull the plug.

racervboat
07-18-2018, 09:36 AM
On the gas thing.My buddy went to a work party at a co workers cabin.One guy had a 1969 crestliner 18ft I/o the only boat there.The guy /owner of the boat got drunk very early 1:00 ish and the guys wanted to go for a boat ride so my buddy says he woke the guy up and asked him if they could take the boat out, he says go ahead and goes back to sleep.So 5 guys go for a ride and 10 mins later the boats starts chugging the gas gauge says empty and low and behold a marina with shore gas is right in front of them.They pump in 10 gals,it starts right up and got 75 yards and BOOM the guy sittin on the dog house goes for a rocket ride blows the two guys out sittin in back the driver and bow guys jump out.No one seriously injured except for burns HOW LUCKY CAN YOU GET.The boat burns up and sinks before fire dept gets there,no one wearing life jackets but all saved. Well the guy had a bad gas tank and was running a 6 gal can so 10 gal in the bilge .Don't know how many if any sued the guy for not telling them about the tank not being hooked up ?

dgscroggs
07-18-2018, 10:13 AM
So what do you do with 30 gallons of drained bilge-tainted eggbeater fuel? Was the oil mixed in too? lol!
We burned our 20 gal off in a fire pit lol