Mariner 135 service tips needed, no spark one bank

[LakeFever]

Howdy all, I have a no spark condition on one side of the engine. This is my first V6 Merc/Mariner so I dont have much service experience with these. I checked compression and its really good on all holes 135-140psi each. I checked each cyl for spark and the Starboard bank of the engine has no spark on all holes on that side. I'm thinking this is a CDI box based on previous experience but new to Merc and new to this site and excited to learn so would like to hear from anyone who knows best. Any other service or worthwhile upgrades that I should do would be VERY welcome advice as well.

thanks

[XstreamVking]

Might be trigger. Switch boxes kill cylinders on each side when ones bad.

[nitro_rat]

I just posted this in another thread this morning...


Manual:

http://www.hedges-uk.com/boat/Merc/outboards/2-stroke/2-stroke/135-150-175-200-225/MODELS%20135-150-175-200-225%201992%20and%20Newer%20%96%20135-150-150-%20XR6-150%20Magnum%20III-150%20EFI-175-175%20EFI-200-200%20EFI-150-200-225%20Pro%20Max-150-200-225%20Super%20Magnum%20.pdf

Technicians Guide:

http://www.motooff.ru/assets/files/doc/Mercury/MERCURY__2.4L__2.5L__3.0L_V6_EFI_Tehnicheskoe_ustroystvo_dvigateley.pdf

CDI Ignition Troubleshooting Manual:

http://www.cdielectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/7th-Edition-Troubleshooting-Guide_RS.pdf

That stuff should point you in the right direction for almost any repair...

[LakeFever]

Might be trigger. Switch boxes kill cylinders on each side when ones bad.

Whats a trigger?


nitro_rat thank you I will study those

[FORBESAUTO]

Each bank is on one switchbox. More than likely you have a bad switchbox or power supply to box from stator. Without having to get into test, you can swap position of the two boxes, of the no fire swapps to the port side you have a bad switchbox. If stays on starboard side you swap just the leads from the stator between the two boxes, if changes side you have a bad stator. If by some chance still doesn’t swap sides, check for black and yellow kill wire for ground on the box that goes to starboard side coils.

[LakeFever]

Will do that now thanks

[nitro_rat]

Whats a trigger?


nitro_rat thank you I will study those


The manuals I posted have the description of the components, their function, and the troubleshooting procedures.

[LakeFever]

ForbesAuto we have a winner! I swapped the three green feeds from the coils to the switchboxes as you mentioned and the spark followed along so I definitely have a bad switch box. That said is there any concerns that may have caused this I should look at or do you think this is isolated enough to buy a new switch box, and go boating?

nitro_rat I cant thank you enough for those manual PDF's that is a super solid and I will be printing them soon as i get more paper for the old laser box.

Anything else any of you guys think I should do? Worth adding power to one of these or no?

[LakeFever]

If it matters any I verified the serial, its a 1988 model

[FORBESAUTO]

Box prob just took a dump, I recently saw a good pointer from Chris Carson about a bad ignition switch causing a small amount of voltage on the black and yellow kill wires. Wouldn’t be a bad idea to make so voltage on wires from switch. Other than that just box failure. Also unfortunately it’s a very good idea to change both boxes as a pair to reduce the possibility of bias problems between the two boxes causing weird unwanted timing problems that could result in engine damage from overly advanced timing on certain cylinders

[nitro_rat]

Replace both boxes and not with the cheap “CDI” ones off ebay. Get some real ones! The black ones by “CDI Electronics” (NOT the blue ones!) or Mercury or Sierra brand should be ok!

[LakeFever]

I replaced the power packs on my V4 Evinrude with Sierra packs and it woke it right up! Over achieving engine spins up to 6200 all day and its 100% original aside from the Sierra CDI boxes, which are blue instead of the original black and they have been on there a while now too. Had the engine since new in 83 and iirc I put those CDI units on in 98? That engine does eat rectifiers though.

Anyways back to this Mariner 135 so both switchboxes need replacing? Any recommended shops to buy from priced well and ship fast? Thanks for all the screaming fast replies fellas, very appreciated.

[Merc 2.5]

Usually when 1 box goes bad the other 1 is close behind when new 1 is installed and can mess up new 1 ,so you kinda start chasing your tail , (sort of speak), so go ahead get 2 , perry( wrenchin2) told me pro marine has a box for the mercs that have a extra protection circuit or something to that nature ,

[Merc 2.5]

My phone is being super slow today ,nitro had already told u bout swapping both,but pro marine has good ones

[nitro_rat]

X2 on pro marine, they are good. I think they’re the same as Sierra which is the same as the old Mallory boxes.

[FORBESAUTO]

ForbesAuto we have a winner! I swapped the three green feeds from the coils to the switchboxes as you mentioned and the spark followed along so I definitely have a bad switch box. That said is there any concerns that may have caused this I should look at or do you think this is isolated enough to buy a new switch box, and go boating?

nitro_rat I cant thank you enough for those manual PDF's that is a super solid and I will be printing them soon as i get more paper for the old laser box.

Anything else any of you guys think I should do? Worth adding power to one of these or no?


Be be careful if ya only swapped coil wires because you also moved to a different set of low speed power supply from the stator.

I’ll try to give a basic simple rundown of functionality of the ignition system to help give a clear understanding to how it works to make diagnosing easier. Your stator and trigger are located under the flywheel. The stator generates electricity for charging batteries and has two sets of both low speed and high speed windings to power each switchbo( one set of each low and high speed for each box). The low speed supplies voltage at low rpm and the high speed kicks in a much higher voltage at higher rpms. The correct procedure for testing each of these voltage supplies is by using a DVA. Yet I read the voltage all the time with my volt meter on ac volts, don’t think all meters will do this though. This reason I elected the swapping around method to prevent going on wild goose chase.
The trigger controls when to fire/ timing, it reads three magnets in the center hub of the flywheel, each magnet represents 2 cylinders, one on each bank. The switch boxes actually control the charging and breaking the field of the coils. Each switchbox responsible for a bank. There is a bias circuit between the two boxes that has to be connected between the two to keep the boxes in sync of each other, this is the circuit that timing control boxes can hook to to modify timing. Then there is your kill circuit black and yellow wire that goes to esch box.

So if your not firing on a complete bank, your most probable culprits will be (1) switchbox (2) power supply to that switchbox from stator (3) kill wire to switchbox. Without going out and buying test equipment move the circuits around until ya find which one the problem follows.

Hope that makes a little sense and not jack anybody’s head up

[LakeFever]

Be be careful if ya only swapped coil wires because you also moved to a different set of low speed power supply from the stator.

I’ll try to give a basic simple rundown of functionality of the ignition system to help give a clear understanding to how it works to make diagnosing easier. Your stator and trigger are located under the flywheel. The stator generates electricity for charging batteries and has two sets of both low speed and high speed windings to power each switchbo( one set of each low and high speed for each box). The low speed supplies voltage at low rpm and the high speed kicks in a much higher voltage at higher rpms. The correct procedure for testing each of these voltage supplies is by using a DVA. Yet I read the voltage all the time with my volt meter on ac volts, don’t think all meters will do this though. This reason I elected the swapping around method to prevent going on wild goose chase.
The trigger controls when to fire/ timing, it reads three magnets in the center hub of the flywheel, each magnet represents 2 cylinders, one on each bank. The switch boxes actually control the charging and breaking the field of the coils. Each switchbox responsible for a bank. There is a bias circuit between the two boxes that has to be connected between the two to keep the boxes in sync of each other, this is the circuit that timing control boxes can hook to to modify timing. Then there is your kill circuit black and yellow wire that goes to esch box.

So if your not firing on a complete bank, your most probable culprits will be (1) switchbox (2) power supply to that switchbox from stator (3) kill wire to switchbox. Without going out and buying test equipment move the circuits around until ya find which one the problem follows.

Hope that makes a little sense and not jack anybody’s head up



Very helpful Forbes. I did do the short quicky as you mentioned but I will dig in again tomorrow and see if I chooched it or not. I did notice a small semi melted block just above the switchboxes that had been put back together and siliconed so that cant be good either. that said the wires coming out of the stator look newer than the rest, so maybe its already been swapped. I will update as I find out more tomorrow

thanks again

[LakeFever]

I havent had a chance to dig into the spark issue further but I am wanting more power. I had a friend with a 2.4BP V-King that put the hooks in me years ago so that is kind of my barometer for end game with this project. I do enjoy the process though and want to see what I can get out of this 135 first before moving on to a new mill. Is there any mods you gusy recommend? I was thinking of trying a 24P prop for starters. It has a land and sea hydraulic jack plate which is leaking down a little so I need to sort that out as well. Stock lower unit so no lwp, dont really think its worth adding one to this engine correct?

[Merc 2.5]

No need for lw pickups unless over 70mph,and a lot setback, biggest bang for buck on that motor is cut heads for 140 145 lbs compression ,some 200 carbs(if it's a carby motor),tuner, just the normal bolt ons, won't never run like bp,,,, without having block work done to it,you can get it around 150hp ,, setup will gain u the most mph

[LakeFever]

Motor has 4" set back now on a land and sea lift. It has a GPS and the previous owner says it goes 65mph with the 21p so lwp sounds like its getting close. IIRC the gear case on these is smaller than a BP yes? Im not very knowledgeable on Mercs yet but if the gear case is suitable for a big power head then maybe I should do the Bobs nose LWP mod? Im having a lot of fun with this boat already and it hasn't even hit the water yet!

I did some searching and found a member TRex who had this to say about the 2.0L


a user frenly 2.0, cut tha heds to 150#s comp, put a set ov wh-41 carbs on it, cut tha front half, and "D" port tha pistons, and leeve tha exhaust chest alone....

Sounds reasonably easy. Going to have to water test this sucker soon as I get it running and get some baseline info to work with but what does "Cut the front half" entail?

Thank you SAF!!!!

[Merc 2.5]

Yes lw pickup could probably help u,but u would need a over hub prop so it can b surfaced , do all the bolt ons b4 u try props tho ,,heads, carbs,tuner,reeds,will help u turn bigger wheel. If it's running 65. Shouldn't b hard get it to 70 with those mods

[Merc 2.5]

What kind and size boat is this motor on?, more set back probably help also,especially if kinda heavy layup

[LakeFever]

Hydrostream Valero

18' very clean boat. Been shopping for years to find one this mint. I was looking for a Viking/V-King but this one was too clean to pass up and its the same hull, only the top is different. Tows very light, i dont know the weight of the set up yet but I will be weighing it at some point so I have accurate base line data to work with.

[Merc 2.5]

There's a bunch on here with that boat and can give better set up info. They will chime n I'm sure, I hear vking doesn't like much set back but I think velero may b little heavier , 6in plate mite do u better over 4in

[LakeFever]

Yes its a desirable hull and hard to find in super clean shape nowadays. Rotted project hulls or new Spaeth are the only other options. Anyways for now I'm focused on this 135 and getting it dialed in best I can. Thanks for the input

[Merc 2.5]

Like stated b4, do all bolt on mods,raise motor ,lw pick up , good surfacing prop ,should get u where u wanna be ,then u will get used to it and gonna want more, then will need swap power heads lol. That's what happen to me anyway

[nitro_rat]

what does "Cut the front half" entail?

It means machining the surface of the front half of the crankcase where the intake manifold/reed block attaches. This brings the reed cages farther into the crankcase providing “stuffing” and increasing primary compression. Chris Carson just introduced some reed block spacers which accomplish the same thing without any machine work.

Get some of his reeds and the stuffers, have your heads cut for 145 lbs cranking compression, get a good tuner (Bob’s or 2.4 200 should work), add solid motor mounts while you’re in there if you don’t have them already, ditch the “black boxes” if you have them, ditch oil injection if you have it still, set timing to 24*, add 93 octane mixed with your favorite oil, and I’d probably go for a 24 chopper prop with a nose cone. Should be fun and you may see 70+ with the little 135.

[LakeFever]

Ditch oil injection on these Mercs too? I know all about the VRO nightmare is this a similar issue?

[Merc 2.5]

Yes , especially if trying spin it over 6k , good insurance,

[LakeFever]

Thanks again fellas, i'll report back soon as I fire it and get it wet :D

[nitro_rat]

Ditch oil injection on these Mercs too? I know all about the VRO nightmare is this a similar issue?

Unless you tear into the block to do other mods get the oil pump blockoff kit from merc. It has a stem on it wheich retains a bushing inside the block which can fall out otherwise. If you do tear down, leave the plastic drive gear on the crank as it takes up volume in the crankcase. If you have it down that far you can fill the void machined for the oil pump with epoxy (marine tex) to equalze the cylinder volume with the others.

[LakeFever]

New switch boxes arrived and I installed them and voila, spark on both banks. I pour in some new gas, hook up the water supply, crank and NO FIRE. Nothing nada zip. I tried spraying quick start down the carbs while cranking engine and nothing. I took the plugs out ( wet ) checked for spark while wet and they lit no problem. I dried them reinstalled and still nothing. Did variations on this a couple of times, cranked it without plugs to blow anything out it seemed dry enough no major fog spraying but it was enough to wet the plugs each time. Last attempt was directly spraying quick start into the cyls, quickly putting in spark plugs, crank and not even a hiccup. Its as if there is still no spark at all.

What do you guys think I should do next?

[gotboostedvr6]

Mixed up wires on the boxes

[LakeFever]

I did check to see it was correct but I will go over it again to be sure. If it fires I will post up, if anyone else has suggestions im open to any pointers, thanks for the speedy replies guys I appreciate it.

[FORBESAUTO]

If it’s firing but not starting, I’m with recheck your wiring. Make sure wires with yellow tape from trigger are on the same switchbox with wires with yellow tape going to coils.

[FORBESAUTO]

410842

[LakeFever]

Okay so the wiring was routed correctly. I pulled the plugs again, sprayed quick start down the holes, lit that on fire with a propane torch and heated each hole for ten seconds. Put the plugs back in and BAM she fired up like an angry bees nest. Scared the piss out of me it hit, and lit, and spun way too high for my liking so I killed it instantly. I tried to fire it again and it was very hard to start. The amount of idle arm and prime/choke/pushkeyin whatever that is on this thing is sensitive. I played around a bit had it idling well, the tell tale is weak though so is that normal like my old 7.5 and it will work better once run or is it game over for the water pump?

That aside there is another issue. That melted box I mentioned earlier that appears to have been fixed was sparking/arcing a little especially dropping down off a rev up. Im not sure what it is I will check those manuals posted earlier but I will definitely be swapping that out for new. Good thing it was dark or I dont think i would have seen it.

Anyways looking up, it was good to hear it run. Sounds meaner than I expected :eek:

[LakeFever]

410842

That small square box with three poles on it above the sparkboxes to the left is arcing/sparking and melted a little. Any idea why?

[LakeFever]

The schematic is hard to see but I think its a terminal box is that correct? Its to the left of the starter solenoid, and above the spark boxes slightly to the left.

[FORBESAUTO]

That’s the rectifier for the charging system. Normally burning and arcing is caused by a poor connection causing excessive heat from the extra resistance. Make sure the nuts are tight. If it’s burned probably gonna have to replace it so it doesn’t cause damage to the regulator and/or stator. You can still get the rectifiers, the regulator for that style is NLA. It is replaced with one of the new style regulators from the 40 amp system, which also contains the rectifier so if you go that way, the rectifier in the picture will be eliminated.

[LakeFever]

Its definitely replacement time its melted and the fix is mickey mouse. Is it common for the regulator to crap out when these arcing is happening too or do you think id be good to go with a new rectifier?

[LakeFever]

What about that tell tale not spraying well? I had head phone style water feed on it. Time for new water pump too or will this work itself out once submersed in the lake?

[FORBESAUTO]

The old style regulators seem to hold up against voltage spikes a little better than the newer style. I personally don’t run a regulator at all on my 16 amp system, just run the rectifier. I have a lot of electronics on my boat and consume more than the 16 amp can keep up with anyway, so don’t have an overcharge problem. I used to to run the new style regulator set up and had to replace it a few times and decided simpler was better and have never looked back. Unless you have hardly no electrics on boat and require a regulator to keep voltage in check you can probably replace the rectifier and if not charging, do away with the regulator. Plus the rectifier is really cheap compared to the new style regulator set up. Here’s a link to the rectifier from pro marine. Look in same section and they also have the kit to convert to new style regulator.

http://parts.promarineusa.com/productdetail/M50/1/1/154-6770

[FORBESAUTO]

What about that tell tale not spraying well? I had head phone style water feed on it. Time for new water pump too or will this work itself out once submersed in the lake?

Do you have a water pressure gauge? If so, make sure got good pressure. Sometimes tell tell won’t get full stream until at operating temp. If it’s been awhile since pump has been changed, not a bad idea to change it anyway

[LakeFever]

Rectifier replacement here we go! No wp gauge, I will look into adding that as I up performance. Im itching to get it in the drink and test it out so Im probably going to grab a rectifier and get it in the water this week for a test hit

Thanks for all the help Forbes!

[FORBESAUTO]

:cheers: :thumbsup:

[LakeFever]

I went to the local merc marine supply today and they were sold out of rectifiers so I decided to see if I could patch up the one I have and I did. The housing was melted a little and the pin was not tight because the melted plastic kept the larger of the two leads from making good, tight contact. I had some brass rivet washers here so I filed the hole large enough to fit over the pin x2 and with a new brass nut got it gutentite. Then the fun started again, or lack of. I had a brutal time trying to start this thing again. I flooded it right away by pushing in the key and pulling up the lever. I had to pull plugs three times, heat the bores with torch and spray quick start and fog a little down the carb bores to start it. Once it fired it idled and ran perfectly well so why I am struggling to start this thing puzzles me. Good news is no more spark on the rectifier so I ordered new online and can wait while I run this one temporary. Also good news I let it warm right up and the tell tale was spraying good and strong. Feeling ready to launch except the damn cold start problems.

What is the ideal starting procedure for one of these? I squeezed bulb ( still tight from yesterday ), lifted idle arm, turned key and pushed in primer. That flooded it. Tomorrow Im thinking to try and crank with no idle arm and no primer. Suggestions? Some mechanical aspect I should investigate?

[FORBESAUTO]

What spark plugs are in it, and how fresh are they? Seems to be flooding/ fouling plugs way to easy. Compression was good on motor, so next suspect would be just plugs fouling prematurely? I have really good luck with the NGK B9HS10, never have problems with fouling even running pig rich idling around breaking motors in. With the compression near 140 I would use these. Can’t think of a way the primer could be or set up to be overfueling off the top of my hollow head at the moment. If ya haven’t already, try spinning it then push in primer if it don’t fire up. The advanced timing added by raising the idle up lever should actually help prevent flooding.

[FORBESAUTO]

Unless ya got a leaky fuel pump and it’s flooding it out when you pump the bulb?

[LakeFever]

Plugs look to be in good shape. NGK BU8H, but new/spare plugs is always wise so I'll dig up some of those B9HS10's and try.

The only thing that leads me away from thinking fuel pump is the bulb holds its prime tight over night so if the fuel pump was passing wouldnt the bulb relax? Any way to test fuel pump? Im thinking of pulling the carbs off today to check float levels and clean further. I did pull the plug/jet out of each carb for inspection and cleaning and they were all clean no gunk or varnish at all so I left the carb set on and moved forward. It could also be my starting routine is fubar, on my OMC I pull idle lever high and push primer in while cranking, once it fires I have to keep intermittently pushing the primer for 30 secs or so til idle catches all while playing with the idle arm so it doesnt over rev cold. Been trying these habits on this motor and have definitely not been working.

Today im going to lift the arm, turn key without pushing key in or priming bulb and see if it catches. Once it lights it purrs along just fine

[FORBESAUTO]

That’s the correct plugs for ya mota. The 8 is the correct stock heat range and is a step hotter than the 9 which will help prevent fouling. I suggested the 9 because when compression is near 140 I like to go to the colder 9’s. In this instance it’s a good idea to stick with the 8’s until problem is resolved. I feel the plugs with the conventional extended tips (B8HS10 and B9HS10) resist fouling by placing the electrode farther into the chamber more in the heat of things, helping keep it clean. Jmo

[LakeFever]

I hear ya re the anode free plugs. Only other engine I ever had that rans these was a Kohler in a Merc Trail Twister 440 and they were not the best in that thing either, for fouling especially. I switched to a BR9 and it ran much better. I havent had a chance yet to fire it today because its raining and I dont want to fire it inside because of the water and smoke. I have a gut feeling its a combination of my starting method and that it hasn't run in a while so the carbs might be a little off. I am a little hesitant to pull the carbs off simply because I dont have gaskets and dont want to suffer anymore downtime before trying it out. I may drop it in the lake tomorrow or Tuesday if I can. In my experience with two strokes a lot of times once running a good long run usually clears up any starting gremlins for the season. Im hoping this is also one of those times, plus it does run so well once lit. It sounds like a freakin Nitro engine when its running, I think the heads have been milled already or something it just has that high compression crispy sound to it. My neighbor literally ran over in excitement yesterday he couldnt believe how good it sounded.

Tons of fun so far

[LakeFever]

I didnt get a chance to mess with it yesterday but just now I tried to start using idle arm up no choke, no bulb prime, and it flooded badly, no start. I wonder if some fresh plugs such as the B8HS10 would help?

[FORBESAUTO]

Probably wouldn’t hurt before ya get off into the wild goose chase. Pretty cheap to try and look at like part of maintenance.

[LakeFever]

Cant hurt to have a second set of plugs in the boat anyways. I usually do have a LOT of get ya home parts in my boats, experience taught me to always be prepared on the water.

[LakeFever]

Picked up a set of BR8HS10's what gap you recommend?

[FORBESAUTO]

I run 0.035 on the gaps. Agree it’s a good idea to get ya some spares in boat ‘case ya foul one. That way it don’t ruin your outing. Good luck, hope it’s an easy fix. Let’s is know how it turns out.

[LakeFever]

Thanks again. I may pull the carbs tomorrow and go through them as well while Im at it. I dont think I will have time for launch til later in the week so I might as well dial in everything I can. I'll update as I go

[LakeFever]

Success!!!!

I pulled the carbs, and right away there was a red flag on the track. Although I had inspected the lines for cracking, I could not see the back side of the little charge lines, and two were split wide open on the back that go to the little valve ( poppet iirc ) and that surely was not helping me at all. I also had a seriously clogged fuel filter ( how this contributed to a flooding condition I have no idea ) so I dug in, pulled the carbs, stripped them down and cleaned them thoroughly. They were very clean to begin with but a couple of the tiny holes in the top were gummed up a bit which Im sure would have cleaned out with some run time on the lake but regardless they are spotless now. I also decided to change every fuel line and oil line on the thing along with a new fuel filter. It was a bit of a chore but fresh is good peace of mind and I tie wrapped the barbs as well. Tossed in the new plugs gapped at 035, squeezed the bulb, hit the key, and vroom she fired right up and purred smooth as butter. Very pleased with how good its running now so we are ready for launch soon as I have time.

Thanks for all the help guys and Forbes especially a huge help man thank you!

[spybot]

I just posted this in another thread this morning...

By any chance do you have this collection or any of the above from a 1985 75hp 2t Clamshell merc?

[nitro_rat]

If you dig around in the hedges-uk directory there are a couple of 75 hp manuals but I don’t think there’s one that old...

[LakeFever]

Maiden Voyage success! Awesome in fact, we had so much fun thanks again S&F for the tech tips to get me here. There were some issues though that I need to look at. First off the engine temp was unstable and unpredictable. Sometimes it would heat up cruising along at 40mph or so and cool down idling around a little and then other times it would heat up idling. The coolest it ran was WOT screaming through the narrows. I am thinking thermostats but a friend of mine suggested the impeller might have chucked a blade off. I'll pull the lower unit to inspect and replace. I was thinking thermostat/s? What do you guys think?

Second issue is I have no battery charging so I figure the rectifier is cooked good n dead.

Otherwise the boat ran great aside from the slight boggy feeling during launch. These hulls are not exactly hole shot monsters like J-Crafts are thats for sure. Its a fine line between taking off, spinning the prop, or bogging down. I'm new to this boat and have no idea yet what the optimum engine height is for all this, even worse I have no gauge on the transom lift so I was guesstimating using the mirror.

I also know this boat is at MAX power without a foot throttle. Im a big dude and it is a handful to try and one arm wrestle this thing under full jam when its up on the pad. I dont know how fast I managed I did not have the GPS hooked up but it takes max effort out of this 135 to get it chine walking. Once up to speed its seems to creep up but I didnt really let it rip too far under WOT only 5 seconds or so up on the pad each time. It was plenty enough to be thrilling and I was getting thumbs up from anyone on the water who saw the show so to speak. I also want to add a water pressure gauge but it did run very well and I am very pleased. So to recap new service and mods are

1. rectifier
2. water pump
3. lift plate gauge
4. water pressure gauge
4. more seat time

[FORBESAUTO]

I think staring with a new pump kit would be a good idea., This is where a water pressure gauge would aid in diagnosis greatly. Your stats mainly only control temp at idle, they open at around 140-145 degrees F. Once rpm begins to raise and pressure reaches around 8 psi, the poppet valve begins to open (can be seen by fluctuation in gauge), temp drops considerably (110 or so) and stats close. Rpm wise from this point on temp is regulated by poppet valve and stats stay closed. If your having problems at multiple rpm ranges, it’s good chance water pump is problem

[LakeFever]

replaced the water pump today, it was shot. Two fins were cracked and not holding much outward seal and every fin was warped along the top so I got lucky last time out. Had a bear of a time getting the water line back on the lower unit. It had hardened over time and I didnt really get it on all that well. The speedo runs off a hamster wheel feed anyways so I dont think that line is doing anything.

I also installed the new rectifier and patched up the trailer wiring where someone had twisted and taped up is now soldered and dual wall heat shrinked. Installed a new battery box and dug out the GPS which I need to learn how to operate. Hoping to get out for another test run soon, maybe tomorrow :)

[LakeFever]

Well here I am sitting at the boat launch, got spark and no start. I don't have a propane torch with me but I have tried every configuration I can think of with a can of quick start that is now empty. I sprayed through while wife cranked, I took out plugs and sprayed directly into clys and tried that. Nothing se ms to light it up today. I'm sitting here at the launch wondering why? I changed the rectifier and have not run it since do you think that would cause this? Anything I should check while I'm here or am I done for the day? Balls

[Merc 2.5]

Well I hate hear that, especially once u think u have it figured out, I'm guessing ur not at ramp still so have you done any further testing. Weak spark?

[LakeFever]

Yeah im wrapped up now, not the most screaming fun day thats for sure. Only thing I have not messed with is the fuel pump, wondering if thats the trouble? I tried plugs in/out for hours at the launch and it seemed to be pretty dry on the plugs towards the end especially. I installed a clear fuel filter and noticed quite a bit of old fuel line sediment caught in it. I already bough another filter and was planning to swap it out after one more tank. Thinking that scunge may be choking up the pump? Still doesnt explain why it would fire at all with the quick start though.

How do I test for weak spark? It looks about the same as before when it was running good.

[FORBESAUTO]

Kinda wondering same thing about maybe weak spark. Maybe low voltage on low side stator windings going to switchboxes or poor grounds for stator and/or switchboxes?

[FORBESAUTO]

Fuel pump could very well be leaking also putting raw fuel into crankcase. May be easiest thing to check next, for some reason I was thinking already done that.

[LakeFever]

I checked all the grounds they are good to go. I loosened them all, inspected/cleaned and tightened them up good. Thats the first thing I did before firing the first time and I checked em again today in the launch lot. Isnt there a way to test the stator with a meter?

[LakeFever]

Fuel pump could very well be leaking also putting raw fuel into crankcase. May be easiest thing to check next, for some reason I was thinking already done that.

I'm definitely going to open it up and see whats what in there

[Merc 2.5]

Motor should absolutely start on starting fluid or at least fire off and die,,, if it doesn't try to start with starting fluid , it sounds like it would be ignition problem. You can but a spark tester and spark should jump a pretty big gap, like 7/16ths or (someone else here can give you the exact measurement) either way it should be a strong blue spark ,,, I've also seen weak batteries not turn motor over fast enough to get that strong spark, swap out to ur old rectifier and see if it fires, maybe retrace all ur steps

[LakeFever]

Battery is mint. I have one of those spark distance checkers, i will try that. Funny thing is though it has yet to start once cold without quickstart. Theres no kicks, spits, hiccups, nada, until BAM it lights right up and instantly starts running great after a decent huff of smoke. Every time i have fired it up and warm it even a minute? It runs fine, starts fine the rest of the day. Its only dead cold Im having troubles with.

[Merc 2.5]

What year motor is it?is it a carb motor? Have you checked ur enrichment (choke) and make sure it's spraying when u push key?

[FORBESAUTO]

Agree with Merclover, needs to be turning over a minimum of 250 rpm for stator to make enough voltage. Use spark tester, if good ignition ok, if weak you will need to be testing the output of the red and red/ white from stator at each switchbox. It should be at least 25 volts a/c at idle/cranking, normally no less than 30, but 25 is low spec. The proper way to do this is by using a DVA, however I read it all the time with my meter on a/c volts. I think most meters won’t read it though.

On the fuel pump, you can undo hose from pump housing going to crankcase, unbolt pump from case and pump up bulb and check for fuel coming out of either the hose or the hole in back of pump where it mounts to case. If fuel comes out of either with pressure on system from bulb, the pump is leaking.

[FORBESAUTO]

Just for giggles, unhook the yellow wires from rectifier and place them where they can’t ground out. Theoretically shouldn’t effect it, but I’ve seen some of the 40 amp stuff that grief the regulators cause some screwey running problems, usually on the high side, but who knows. Especially since you’ve already had it burnt.

[Merc 2.5]

Also I'm not fond of using any starting fluid. Seems motors can get addicted to it if used everytime to start it. Use a 20oz bottle with pin hole in the top and fill it with ur premix and give carbs a squirt with that (make sure throttle plates are open),

[LakeFever]

I'll try the wire removal trick for sure. I tested the old rectifier on the bench after removal and it is toast but I do have another on order as a back up. As for the quickstart? I only use it on newish purchases until I sort it out and usually I only need it once. I have never once used it in my 83 crossflow and I dont think ive ever used it on my fishing motors either. Maybe once on the 7.5 but regardless im not a fan either and want to stop. Maybe I need a 12 step program for etherholics

[Merc 2.5]

Lol ,nah. I can see it under certain circumstances, ,well either way it should had fired on ether, almost gotta b a ignition issue

[LakeFever]

I keep a little emergency kit in my boats and theres always a can of quick start, and a can of WD40. Sometimes if the weather is bad or whatever I want to know right away if its an ign issue or fuel or the like hence the quick start. WD40 for water soaked wiring or? Vice Grips, screwdrivers, spare plugs, and some other bittties. Hope to have this solved soon, its boatin season

thanks for the tips fellas, i'll update what I find soon as I can get to it. Tomorrow and Thurs are busy days for me too. So it goes

[LakeFever]

Worth mentioning when I took my old rectifier to the local marine supplier the parts kid ( part timer wasnt overly knowledgeable ) said the computer pulled up a different rectifier ( far more expensive ) and that the one I had which looks like this

411785

Was not the correct one. The one he had looked more like a CDI unit and I could not see how it would even bolt up to my motor so I said it was wrong and this small square one I had on there and running fine so are you sure? He then claimed that an 86 year engine shows the rectifier I had so I bought it and never thought twice. Even still I cant see how a rectifier affects ign? Is it not separate? Anyways a few thoughts on it this am, this is eating at me a bit now

[FORBESAUTO]

He was probably seeing the upgrade to the newer unit which contains both the rectifier and the regulator. The rectifier is an electrical check so to speak to convert the a/c voltage from stator to D/C volts to charge your battery. It’s only for charging, and shouldn’t effect your ignition, the windings in stator for charging is a different set from the ones supplying voltage to switchboxes. I have seen some of the 40 amp systems burn the regulator and somehow mess with the ignition, not sure how but suspect it also burned the charging windings in stator and must have caused some damage to the windings for switchboxes also. This is highly unlikely, but if it’s possible you should be able to see it on the voltage of the red and red/white wires.
Being you have the ignition tester, I would check how strong the ignition is 1st. That way you can determine if the ignition isn’t strong enough to light the fuel at lower rpms of the starter or if you are just flooding it out with more fuel than she can ignite.

[LakeFever]

That makes sense, it looked more like a CDI pack, square and flat approx 1/2" thick about 2.5" per side.

So back on track here Im 99% positive its a spark issue because I started testing it today and started cold, pulled the yellow wires off the rectifier as requested, no bulb prime and with the transparent fuel filter I could see fuel handily surging through but no start. I cranked a while and pulled a plug and it was dry so im fairly confused at this stage. I decide to pull all the plugs and 4 were soaked, another one was slightly wet. So I started to test for spark again and there is definitely intermittent spark. It will spark a half dozen times then nothing, then a few, then nothing etc. Its not firing steady so I think I have this narrowed down. Big question is what do I test now or is it a matter of replace the stator or is this a trigger issue? Im really not looking to spend a ton on this motor as I dont plan on it being the forever motor on this boat but i really do want it up and running well for this season so fire away gents, what to do here?

[Merc 2.5]

You could swap the wire around on switch boxes and see if it moves cylinders, if it does need boxes. Or just swap boxes around

[LakeFever]

Its not side specific this time. Its kind of random, some plugs fire then dont and vice versa across all six

[LakeFever]

Although the spark boxes are brand new I checked the bias on the black/white terminal to ground on each

1. 14320 ohms
2. 14200 ohms

According to the service manual posted earlier this is a quote


Intermittent, weak or no spark output at 2 spark plugs (one plug from each bank of three cylin- ders) usually is caused by a bad TRIGGER.

Looking like trigger replacement time, everyone agree?

[LakeFever]

Im baffled by this thing. I decided to check each cyl one more time inside in the dark to see if I was certain it wasn't firing normal. Well... it fires bright blue spark on each plug like a champ. So I decide to try and fire it again, roll it out, put the water to it, spray gas premix through the carbs a bit and see. Nothing, not even a hiccup. I cant see the trigger being the problem and if the spark is bright blue what the heck? All cylinders firing, all sparking very bright, spray fuel direct. What on Earth could be preventing this thing from starting up? It ran so good just last week too. Baffled

[LakeFever]

Well... I was starting to get pretty angry at this thing. Every instinct I have says it should run so I decided to go for broke. I got the water bottle with half filled premix and a tiny hole and hooked the water up and had the wife crank while I squirted literally 1/4 or more of the gas through the carbs while she cranked and BAM! Fired up smoking like crazy but seemed to run as good as ever.

So this thing likes its fuel on cold starts it seems. Smokes a bit too much, maybe the oil inj is too rich or something Im not sure but it runs, and I feel a zillion times better. Thankfully I did not run out throwing money at it in a spray and pray manner. Persistence got it alive again but Im no where near pleased with how hard this thing is to start cold. I need to work on that some but wanted to update here so you guys didnt spend more time thinking on it. Sorta winning here

[FORBESAUTO]

Praise the lord!! So she actuality ain’t getting ‘nough fuel instead of too much. Next time she’ being stubborn starting, remove the hose on enrichment solonoid that comes from the bottom of carb bowl and make sure fuel comes out. If not may have needle and seat stuck closed, the older black rubber tipped needles don’t like ethonal and dry out and stick. The newer improved ones will have a red tip. If good reattach hose and prime bulb up again, then pull off other hose and push in key to activate solonoid and make sure fuel is flowing through solonoid. If all good, you may have to just keep it pushed in longer to get ole nelly fired off.

[Merc 2.5]

Also. I have had this happen to me. While I was doing reeds I went back with all new gaskets ,but the carb base gaskets were wrong and didn't have the hole in top of gaskets to allow the fuel to flow from the enrichment solenoid into the motor , so it was like the choke wasn't working ,, punched out those holes and bam perfect. Just something to think about if you have replaced those gaskets

[Merc 2.5]

I wasnt the most knowledgable at the time but I tore down carbs 3 times b4 I figured out what was going on

[LakeFever]

Thank you gents! Yeah shes a thirsty one and Im sure learning about what it needs to be happy. I'll try again tomorrow cold and see if I can get it started without any spray or ether or the like. It may very well have the wrong gaskets in there I did not change them only cleaned and reinstalled and not knowing who did what prior its hard to say. The needles were a clearish yellow color that looked to be Viton by my estimation but I want to replace them as well as new diaphragms in the fuel pump. I took a very hard look at the stator and trigger today and the stator looks brand new and the trigger also very clean which is why I was hesitant to change it and im glad I didnt. Anyways thanks again guys for helping out I really appreciate it I'll update with any news as I shake it down..

Oh yeah almost forgot water pump is spraying way better now that its fresh and the new rectifier is charging I verified a voltage increase today so it should now be good to run and hopefully gets better with the new needles and diaphragms soon.

[LakeFever]

LOL what a day! I started off once again trying to fire it up cold, with no power adders, no ether, gas spray, nothing and all buttoned up as per norm with cover etc using only key. It cranked quite a while with lever up, key pushed in, approx 10 seconds and it gave a quick light up and back to nothing. So I crank another ten seconds, nothing. I start the process again, pull a plug, its dry so I get the premix spray and start spraying while the wife hits the key and it fired right up once again, ran great for 3 seconds and died. Tried more spray and this time, nothing. I soaked it down and zip. Pulled plugs, soaked. So I get my tester back out and start checking for spark and guess what? THERE AINT NONE! Zipola on all cyls. So before I grabbed the matches I decided to hook up ol faithful and head to the lake for some much needed R&R on the water. Had a great day out and just back now, tried the 135 again and no spark.

So at this point Im feeling a bit better knowing that through all this hassle there really was some intermittent spark going on and it wasnt just bright out and plugs far away so I couldnt see spark there probably was none. Back to parts swapping and thinking trigger is the way to go next.

Agree?

[Merc 2.5]

Break out ohm meter and test stator ,if it checks out n spec go to trigger,,

[LakeFever]

Yeah I am kind of running out of patience rope so I was thinking about replacing both the trigger and stator while im in there but I will sleep on it and do a resistance check tomorrow anyways thank you for suggesting, thats a good tip. The summer is burning up and this sweet boat sits in the shop. New spark boxes, rectifier, fuel lines, water pump, carb clean, fuel pump clean, spark plugs, carb clean up, and if I do the stator and trigger there really aint much of this thing left I wont have replaced.

Gotta say, my old Evinrude is looking mighty fine right now. Power packs, rectifiers, and spark plugs only service its ever needed in 30+ years lol.

[Merc 2.5]

Well dnt give up on ole girl yet. Everything Is about new ,once u find it u will b glad u stuck with it. I've had my fair share of em like that to.. I'm leaning toward the stator myself

[LakeFever]

Compression is solid and even across all cyls. This boat is in such mint shape the guy barely used it and did not service it himself. Garage kept etc. You are right once I get it sorted out it will be good. It ran so well when I had it out though, crazy that this has been such a wild goose chase.

[FORBESAUTO]

Another thought, if your losing fire on all cylinders. Check for any amount of ground on black/yellow kill wires from ignition switch at switchboxes. Doesn’t take much of a ground at all to kill it. I had one that someone had spliced the harness I’m boat and would get wet and had like 3k ohms resistance to ground and it wouldn’t start. You could have an ignition switch that the powder from the arcing through the years making a small continuity to ground or even a harness issue like I had.

[LakeFever]

Slept like a zombie last night. i'll see if I can check out those things today and post up what i find. Im certainly getting schooled in 60deg V6 Mercs

[LakeFever]

Looks like stator is cooked. I did a resistance check and the numbers are

spec 3500-4200ohms, readings on mine blue/red 1260ohms, bluewh/redwh 897ohms
Red to black both same at 71ohms, spec is 90-140

So the stator is fubar yes?

[Merc 2.5]

Yes sir. Bingo

[Merc 2.5]

What system do you have?

[Merc 2.5]

Another thought, if your losing fire on all cylinders. Check for any amount of ground on black/yellow kill wires from ignition switch at switchboxes. Doesn’t take much of a ground at all to kill it. I had one that someone had spliced the harness I’m boat and would get wet and had like 3k ohms resistance to ground and it wouldn’t start. You could have an ignition switch that the powder from the arcing through the years making a small continuity to ground or even a harness issue like I had.

Then again could something like this affect the resistance on the stator? Someone smarter than me will need chime n on that

[FORBESAUTO]

The specs change somewhat depending on manufacturer of stator also. The red and red/white wires are the ones you need to concentrate on, being they are the low speed windings that are supplying power at start up
412034

Also to eliminate the kill circuit, you could disconnect the black/yellow wires and see if it starts.

[LakeFever]

I'll try the black/yel wire removal today and see. Detach at the spark box is what you mean right? How do i tell if I have a 9-16amp or 40amp system?

In other news I bought an XR2 150 yesterday. It was on a bass boat and the owner claimed it has low compression on one cyl but it runs fine. He had a sweet lower unit on it that he already sold unfortunately but I got everything else right down to the controls for a great deal. I am hoping its the same system so I can harvest parts from it. It has had the oil injection removed already and the XR2 cover looks wayyyyy better than the 135 cover I have now. I might swap it out and paint the motor black when done all this. Is the mid section different between the XR2 and the 135? Carbs are slightly bigger too are they not? Spare set of heads too so I can play around and find a good combo for 91octane.

[Merc 2.5]

Always great to have spare motor. Mids are same ,carbs probably little better cause of xr2, (need the #s) if u have rectifier it's probably 9 or 16 , my guess be 16 tho. I dnt think 40 amp has rectifier it has 2 voltage regulators

[gotboostedvr6]

Xr carbs are larger then 135's.

[LakeFever]

Yeah spare parts are always a good thing thats why I bought it. It's all there too, spark boxes etc only thing missing is the oil injection stuff. I'd like to get more top end out of my 135, while it was more than enough to get the boat flying and chine walking it wasn't enough to make my wife think it is any faster than my 115 which is on a 15' GT150 knock off with a semi pad type deal. Its not very fast, but very quick. I'd like this stream to run mid 70's on this engine until I get bored and then step up to some bigger power but that will probably come after I go through the hull and do the core/transom all that. Its in great shape now but simply due to age I want it to be more than enough. Probably do a three layer transom as well.

So the tuner in the mid is the same as both? Tuner means expansion chamber right? Pardon my total ignorance on these terms. This Merc V6 experience is totally new to me. Aside from this initial starting problem its been a fun project thus far. Even the wife likes it, win win

[Merc 2.5]

Turner is kinda like the expansion chamber, tunes exhaust, usually the 150s have a skinny long tuner,which is restrictive, usually swapped out for 2.4 200 tuner , we can get u fast but we need get u running like its suppose to 1st. Just don't put cart before the horse. Lol, I would go ahead and test and possibly swap stator 1st. Make sure wires are nice and soft

[LakeFever]

Yup one thing at a time. Wont be modding the 135 this year once i get it running right it will be cruise time and enjoy for this summer. Over winter the mods will begin, maybe even the following year. I might even build this XR2 on the stand and swap it out when the time comes etc. This mornings post was dreaming.

Priority one is a good running 135 :) I know the used stator is a slight risk but its a fast way to get parts instead of waiting time to order one. Need to build a quick stand for this thing though, its still laying in the back of my truck

[Merc 2.5]

Gotcha. Get it set up where u can turn a wrench on it and start swapping parts lol. There's enough there to get u goin

[LakeFever]

Yeah i need a flywheel puller too. I could make one but I dont have a fine thread 1.5" bolt here so I'll see what i can dig up. Theres always something to hunt for lol

[Merc 2.5]

A regular puller will also work,

[LakeFever]

Do i take out some of the small bolts and use those holes? It looks to be even spaced so I think I can only get two bolts in with a conventional puller, which worries me a bit pulling on a morse with only two dinky bolts. Suggestions welcome

[Merc 2.5]

It's not the (correct) way I know and understand that, but yes it can sure be done as I've done a many like that. I had to go buy sum long bolts and yes 2 only line up, just make sure u get a very good bite with the bolts and put pressure and lightly tap around and that will allow u to put more pressure etc ... till it's off

[LakeFever]

Certainly worth a try on the parts motor first lol. Parts motor has a black flywheel and the 135 has a red one. Any difference?

[Merc 2.5]

Same thickness flywheel?

[LakeFever]

By eye it looks to be identical save for the color. I just unloaded it now, what a freakin redneck job I pulled in the driveway with three ladders, a come along and a giant piece of angle iron. You guys would have been proud, it was boat launch spectator worthy especially when the damn come along decided to break and free wheel LOL ayayay. Broke a small bracket on the motor, i think it was for the oil injection tank thats no longer there. Anyways its on a cart, inside and I immediately notice the heads are very different than whats on my 135. They have two sets of bolts and look a lot more serious somehow. Is this an XR feature or have I bought a mystery motor? Heading to compare images now

[Merc 2.5]

Sounds like 2 piece heads?

[LakeFever]

Look like two piece heads. Any performance difference?

[Merc 2.5]

Wanna keep ur 1 piece. Better cooling with 1 piece. And for some odd reason I thought all xr2 had 1 piece heads,

[LakeFever]

Maybe its not an XR2? One thing I founf that I liked is the starter has a date of Dec 87 on it and the Mariner is an 88 model so they must be close. I am trying to decipher the engine tag on it but its not very clear

[Merc 2.5]

Find the #s behind timing/throttle arm. Will be a build date and serial

[LakeFever]

Its laying down on a flatbed dolly on that side so I cant rightly see. Pretty sure its an 85XR2 based on what I can see

[LakeFever]

This link below is exactly what it looks like except the front cover says oil injected where this one shows the man in two places, mine shows him in the bottom spot only. Seems this design went from 85-87 and best I can tell it looks to be all original aside from a very different looking fuel pump and missing oil injection. There is a vent in the cover riveted on is that stock or an add on? Looks to be stock

https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?327036-1985-mercury-150-xr2

[Merc 2.5]

Yes I believe the vents r stock

[gotboostedvr6]

Edit.

[LakeFever]

Found a good thread on the Xr2 differences linked below. I especially liked this part


Mercury made rhe Xr-2 to be a “Hot” bass and pleasure motor.

It had some parts borrowed from the 2.4 200, and not all seemed to be the same(like mercury was throwing stuff on them randomly in those two years ) they had the 2.4 200 “bell” tuner and you will notice a Xr-2 sounds quite a bit roudier than a standard black max 150 of the same era.

These little motors are rev happy machines that are happiest over 6k-65/700 rpm.

https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?217452-what-is-the-defference-from-a-xr2-xr4-xr6


Theres a guy with a Vector and a black Max 150 on a lake I frequent that sound absolutely sinister. My guess is he has that larger tuner as well. Having fun goofing off on the computer looking up info but not getting much work done. Going to pull that flywheel now

[LakeFever]

Back on track here. I ohm tested the parts motor stator and its showing no resistance on the blue/red legs at all. I decided to leave everything as is/was on the 135 and checked for spark and its bright blue again both banks. I havent tried to start it yet because its indoors but I am betting soon as I put the water to it and try it will run. The black/yel leads on the spark boxes are brand new so this must have been an issue for the previous owner as well. So the thing is trusting this thing on the water... How do I discover with certainty what my trouble is?

To recap right now it is fully buttoned up with new spark boxes and the black/yellows are connected and I have good blue spark again. What to do...

[Merc 2.5]

Obviously it's coming and going, so no I wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it,,run it til it loses spark and then start gently wiggling and soft tug on wires from harness etc.. to see if the cylinders kick back in ,,if u can't find it there or not able to duplicate the issue ,,I would look into boxes ,stator ,trigger,
Also look for cracked coils, Buying bad boxes is fairly common I believe also

[LakeFever]

Another thought, if your losing fire on all cylinders. Check for any amount of ground on black/yellow kill wires from ignition switch at switchboxes. Doesn’t take much of a ground at all to kill it. I had one that someone had spliced the harness I’m boat and would get wet and had like 3k ohms resistance to ground and it wouldn’t start. You could have an ignition switch that the powder from the arcing through the years making a small continuity to ground or even a harness issue like I had.

FORBES!! you are on point once again! I tested earlier for voltage present on the black/yellows at the spark boxes and there was none. I decided to wiggle the key, push in on the primer etc a bunch of times and VOILA I have some resistance on BOTH yellow/blacks at the spark box to ground. So I have something going on here. I suspect you will advise to swap out the key switch yes?

Good grief I sure hope this is it

[LakeFever]

Obviously it's coming and going, so no I wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it,,run it til it loses spark and then start gently wiggling and soft tug on wires from harness etc.. to see if the cylinders kick back in ,,if u can't find it there or not able to duplicate the issue ,,I would look into boxes ,stator ,trigger,
Also look for cracked coils, Buying bad boxes is fairly common I believe also



I hear ya, this is why I bought that spare motor so I can swap in/out anything and everything but the key is circumspect now so I will wiggle til resistance shows and then check for spark. If no spark? Smoking gun me thinks

[LakeFever]

Hmm so I have a difficult time repeating resistance on the black/yellow its definitely fiddly. I did manage to get resistance and crank with my spark tester and there was spark which wasnt what I was hoping for I wanted this to be more blatant. I got a control with this XR2 yesterday but no key I didnt even think to ask for it. I think im going to pull the ign switch and start bench testing it compared to the spare I have and see. In the meantime im all ears, er eyes

[LakeFever]

I pulled the ign switch and I cannot get any continuity value at all between the black/yel and the hot wires no matter what I do. However when i turn the key to off, The black/yel to ground is very shaky making the crackly sounds with my beep tester so I cant see this helping in any way. There was one wire in the control not hooked to anything and taped over. Its tan now but I believe it was white with blue stripe. I checked the manual posted earlier in this thread is for 96+ engines and mines an 88 so that explains my vastly different stator resistance values and it doesnt show this type of controller so I dont know the pinouts of the control.

[FORBESAUTO]

The black/yellow is grounded to kill motor. If ya get any amount of ground whatsoever with key on, it won’t start. Shouldn’t have any voltage on it, being you at times read voltage, good chance the switch is getting dusty inside. Any voltage on the black and yellow wires will also kill the switchboxes, which could be explanation why a box took a dump in the first place.
Before you buy any parts, when it won’t start unhook black/ yellow wire/s From switch and see if it starts. If so there’s your problem, if not unhook em from switchboxes and see if it starts. If so problem is between boxes and switch. If not move on to another suspect, kill circuit not the problem.

Hopefully you gettin the coon treed:thumbsup:

[LakeFever]

The black/yellow is grounded to kill motor. If ya get any amount of ground whatsoever with key on, it won’t start. Shouldn’t have any voltage on it, being you at times read voltage, good chance the switch is getting dusty inside. Any voltage on the black and yellow wires will also kill the switchboxes, which could be explanation why a box took a dump in the first place.
Before you buy any parts, when it won’t start 1. unhook black/ yellow wire/s From switch and see if it starts. If so there’s your problem, if not 2. unhook em from switchboxes and see if it starts. If so problem is between boxes and switch. If not move on to another suspect, kill circuit not the problem.

Hopefully you gettin the coon treed:thumbsup:

Done 1 and 2 and still no start. Although its very hard to see spark out in the bright sun it appears to be intermittent again.

[FORBESAUTO]

If it didn’t start with the kill wires disconnected from d, the kill circuit ain’t ya problem. If’n ya get any voltage on the black/yellow wires with key on, I would change the switch to prevent damage to ya new boxes. If’n ya got ya volt meter handy, juss for giggles put it on a/c volts and check voltage on the red and red/white wires from stator to boxes while cranking. May not work, some meters ‘ill read it and some won’t. (proper way is wit’ a DVA) IF it reads, should have at least around 30 volts. If’n it don’t read we still don’t know if it’s a bad stator or juss a meter that won’t read it lol. If it does, we know the stator ain’t ya problem.

[LakeFever]

I'm going to use some contact cleaner and clean the switch while I have it out and see if that solves the shaky contact in off position. The thing is this boat and its parts look like new. The control doesnt even have a scratch, nor does the key plastic or any of these components. Its all OEM and very clean. The guy said he barely used it and his truck was an 11 he bought new with 5000miles on it to give you an idea of shape. Thats why this is soooooo baffling it all looks like new. Anyways I'll clean the switch, try to test for DVA I have a couple meters lets hope one does it. I'll report back shortly

[LakeFever]

Contact cleaner did not improve the switch respsonse one little bit. New switch will be installed. In the meantime I'll try the DVA see if I can get some numbers

[LakeFever]

I tested both red/white against red and it shows 2.1Volts. I dont know if my meter is cut out for DVA testing or not. Its an Amprobe ACD-10 ( not plus the old black one ) Did I test correctly?

[FORBESAUTO]

Ground to red and ground to red/white

[LakeFever]

Ok so my meter reads volts, 21 volts each from red to ground and red/white to ground. I had the leads removed from the spark box and tested them that way, hopefully that is acceptable. Is 21 volts enough? I did like that they were both exactly the same

[FORBESAUTO]

At idle they are usually around 30, low spec is 25. Ain’t never checked one at cranking speed, always checking for no spark on a bank at idle. The voltage rises with rpm. Being both are the same and you are checking two different windings, I would think your ok. Possible engine not turning over fast enough? ( needs to be faster than 250 rpm) Check all cables and connections. Make sure starter not dragging and battery hot

Here’s a link to all the test from CDI. The v-6 info starts on page 84

http://www.cdielectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/CDI%20Troubleshooting%20Guide%20-%202012.pdf

[LakeFever]

Battery is mint, it's spinning very fast, tach reads steady 900 RPM cranking speed. My meter flashes to 21.6 volts and drops down to 20.4 after about 2 seconds of cranking. I just did it again to be sure. My meter is autoranging so I hope its accurate for this? I will check out that link thanks

[LakeFever]

According to the description of DVA my meter wont read it properly due to the extreme range in hertz. Electric service to homes and business is all 60hertz so maybe I am getting more out of it. I think I'll test the trigger too and see what it comes up with. I found a link to make a DVA test box using a capacitor which will store the volts at their peak I might just pack it in tonight and give that a go tomorrow. I want to get a new key anyways I dont like this one. So thats all for tonight folks unless you can think of anything else, i'll update tomorrow.

Thousands of thanks guys, this site is awesome even if my fixin' is not LOL

[LakeFever]

If it didn’t start with the kill wires disconnected from d, the kill circuit ain’t ya problem. If’n ya get any voltage on the black/yellow wires with key on, I would change the switch to prevent damage to ya new boxes. If’n ya got ya volt meter handy, juss for giggles put it on a/c volts and check voltage on the red and red/white wires from stator to boxes while cranking. May not work, some meters ‘ill read it and some won’t. (proper way is wit’ a DVA) IF it reads, should have at least around 30 volts. If’n it don’t read we still don’t know if it’s a bad stator or juss a meter that won’t read it lol. If it does, we know the stator ain’t ya problem.


I made a DVA tester and hooked everything back to the spark boxes up aside from black/yellows being the only leads I unhooked. With the DVA and my meter on DCvolts it reads 26v on red and 27v volts on red/white @ 900RPM on both legs. Is that passable?

[LakeFever]

Blues testing way low. According to the CDI manual spec is 180-400v and Im registering max of 56v and 58v blue and blue/wh respectively. So looks like it's a stator problem after all. Can anyone confirm the DVA spec im looking for is 180-400V on the blue leads? FWIW I tested connected to the spark boxes first and both tested 4v higher on the boxes than off.

[Merc 2.5]

I'd plan on doing away with any spark boxes,,

[LakeFever]

I've been at it steady all eve. The stator looks literally like new, until you flip it over and theres two slightly burned spots on the bottom so its definitely fubar. I grabbed the stator off the XR2 and installed it. It doesnt look brand spanking by any means, it looks about right for its age but no burn marks, wires flexible, no cracking. Bought the new ign switch and installing that before I even start the process of firing it up again. I DVA tested everything I could and all of it came back low, except the trigger, but only when disconnected from the spark box.... so the spark box is dragging the trigger signal low. Bummer they are brand new.

Fortunately I have two on this XR2 that ran so plan is this. After new key is wired in I am going to test for spark, if present I will try and fire it WITH the new spark boxes. If it dont start? replace the switch boxes with the two spares I have and try again.

Sound plan? Risking anything by trying my new spark boxes again after running them with the baked stator?


Also I forgot to mention the stator had a slightly different part number. The one on the 135 was pn5454a36 and the one from the XR2 is 5454a6

I didnt find an a6 listed online, only an a68 which this is crystal clear a6. Think it will be ok?

[LakeFever]

You know sometimes I fall into a trap of previous knowledge and experience guiding me wrong and in this Mariner repair I made one huge oversight because of it. I can attest that aside from the intermittent episodes of missing spark which itself only happened intermittently; remember I ran it for at least 50-60 miles one day without a single blip, aside from being extremely difficult to start. The spark on this engine has been blue since I first checked it and looked fine, until today.

Spark? This thing shoots lightening bolts now!!! So what was happening was the spark was weak, but in time, and sparking on all or none at all basically. Once I got it started with the quick start etc it was enough to run just fine with those new hot plugs. Well now that I have the stator swapped I can say after so many engines and so many different machines I couldnt dare to count em I have never seen spark this bright outside of a magneto set up. This thing is electrified to level eleven.

So all that previous experience checking spark worked against me today. My other boat and previous boats sparked very similar to how this thing WAS sparking and absolutely nothing like it does now. I'm going to be ballsy here and suggest tomorrow afternoon when I pull this thing out? It fires right up. New spark boxes still on it btw and sparking both banks.

I think this thread kept me sane, this one sucked. Schooled me good n proper.

Til the morrow then

[Merc 2.5]

I would bout bet its gonna fire up on it's own with the choke. Good luck

[LakeFever]

I'm re-reading this thread in disbelief. Its been a month lol

Thank you all very much for the help and patience. Baptism by spark blinders here

[LakeFever]

Yee haw! Shes alive boys!!!

Fired right up approx 2 seconds with choke and lever and aside from smoking pretty heavy at first all is well now thank you all again a boat load for all the help. I figure the initial smoke was from all the test cranking even though I had the fuel line disconnected it was sprayed with the premix a ton the previous attempts so it was probably full of gack. New spark boxes test good on the bias test so I'll take my new spares along for the maiden voyage and see how she goes. Spare spark plugs, spark boxes, and a small jug of premix spray juuuuust in case.

So shake down aside, now we can move onto more fun works, like sorting out this XR2 build... but that will be another thread altogether. I'll update after the next run I have the GPS hooked up now so I'll have some data to share. Anyone think it'll run 60?

[Merc 2.5]

I'm glad it fired up on it's own will. Once u have it out couple times and all is well .. then we can make it get faster :cheers:

[LakeFever]

I like the way you think :)

[FORBESAUTO]

:cheers::thumbsup: Now it’s time for the fun stuff!! Keep us posted

[Merc 2.5]

Update?

[LakeFever]

Too busy today to splash it in the water and the weather is looking iffy tomorrow, maybe Sunday. First good weather day we go! Go figure the weather has been great and I had time but boat no run. Now boat runs, time tight, weather meh LOL

Doing some little detail things while I have the time though. One gauge light was out, organized some boat CD's ( aux cord en route ) etc. Good to see your as excited to go as I am :cheers:

[LakeFever]

Today was the day. We splashed her in around 3pm and it fired up in 1/4 second tops. Engine ran great, temps were stable but it loves to scream not idle. There were considerable no wake zones where we boated today and idling along at 5mph it would warm up to half max temp but under full jam? Cool as a cucumber. Only gripe with how it runs is from a crawl to wide open is it ever a slug for a second or two. It doesnt stumble or miss but there is a noticeable delay before any real movement happens. Now as for top speed? For starters its completely clear to me that I need more seat time in this thing to figure out its sweet spot and to master the chine walking. I experienced quite a variety of new to me effects trying to get this thing flying. At one point it seemed to walk 20' straight sideways will I was testing trim limits. Other times it seemed as if the prop lost a bit of bite and it would drop off the pad down a couple inches and this effect would happen pretty quickly too. I tried all sorts of engine heights with the jack plate and trimmed way too high a few times it got hairy once but only for a second. All in all it was a great day, once we finally made it out that is.

To start the day I decided to try and start it before we had a boat launch nightmare again so I turn the key and nothing. No response at all so I try the trim tab and nothing, dead. I figure the battery is dead because I installed the GPS and forgot to turn it off, or maybe there is a short in that wiring as i did not install any of it so I decide to put the battery on charge and remove the GPS and after a quick 30 min charge I try again and dead, nothing. I try the lift jack which is not connected to keyed power and its working fine so im now suspecting a problem with the new key switch I just installed. In all fairness to myself here I have very fat fingers and it is so damn tight in there to fit all those wires and get the dang cover back on so I pull it apart and sure as shootin there is one pinched wire, the blue one. So i dig out the heat shrinks and sort that out. Check the fuse in the back which is burnt and does not remove either end so I have to futz with that for some time to replace the dang fuse and lemme tell ya, its hot out, and I am now outside in the glaring sun and my mood was, Kentucky Fried crispy extra spicey lets just say. God bless the Mrs for being so cool through all this debacle but as it were I got it back together and cleaned back up and away we went only 4 short ball roasting hours later than I wanted to depart but it did run great, not a single issue but in all that haste I did not put the GPS back in so I had to go with dream meter numbers today and the best I got out of it was;

58mph and the engine seemed to tap out at 5800RPM

I had a bunch of runs in the 55mph range but once passed 50 it was definitely up on the pad and very sensitive to driver input or trim changes. Engine height did not seem to make a whole lot of difference to top speed but rather how much trim it needed to get there. Anyways going to get it out again soon for fun adn practice. Thanks again fellas for all the help, i'll let you know what it does with the GPS

I was getting thumbs up and compliments on the boat everywhere. Surprising really how much people seemed to love this boat. I also named it today;

Love me Tender

[Merc 2.5]

How is the tell tale stream at idle. We dnt need be running warm at idle? Also its "strange" how its sluggish all the way to 5800? 5800 is a gud rpm and seems like it should blast off fine. If rpm was 5000 wot I would understand sluggish take off? Do you have a prop to pad measurement?

[LakeFever]

Pisser looks strong at idle it just smokes like a pirate and heats up when idling around. Could also be the day its hotter than hell out there. As for the sluggish its no hole shot monster thats for sure. It just doesnt seem to wind up fast until it gets up out of the hole a bit. I have no measurements of anything and cant even say how high or low I had the jack as I was all over the place with those positions today plus it started to bleed down on me a little today as well so I may have to dig in deeper to my lift jack rebuild but not now, probably not even this season. Been plenty enough wrenching I want to cruise this thing which I have to also say is such a pleasant surprise this boat cruise soooooo smooth between 30-40mph it loafs along almost effortlessly and speaking of effortless I got wayyyy better fuel mileage today than the first run so the stator did me good on a couple levels.

I think the boat could use more prop for starters. While I cringe to think what my already weak hole shot will become, top speed will pick up a lot if I tried a 27-30 pitch or something like that. Speaking of prop I have a Lazer 2 and the vents are wide open, no plugs at all so maybe thats killing my hole shot? 25 pitch maybe? I have a buddy with a V6 yami and he probably has some props I can try

[Merc 2.5]

I'm not thinking bigger /taller prop, I do agree with a different style prop but need keep rpm about where u are , you dnt wanna lug it

[LakeFever]

I was thinking about engine height last night after these posts. On my other boat I found a sweet spot and never needed to move it but its specific to the SRX prop I run on that set up. The hole shot is wicked, and it still boogies pretty good for what it is. I'm thinking this stream is no different that once I find the right prop I can set the engine height and forget about it. I'm open to more prop suggestions and some engine height starting points. Fire away

[LakeFever]

What should maximum charging volts be? This is something I want to keep an eye on.

Did some prop homework and it looks like the small ear chopper is a fan favorite for this hull. I will keep en eye out for one but will run this as is for a while its not bad and I feel like there is more to be had if I can get the right engine height and trim sorted out. I did notice some scribe marks on the lift jack so I will try both of those and see how I make out.

[LakeFever]

Splashed her good all day today. Ran the thing darn near wide open at least half the time. Getting a good feel for it now and I can totally feel when it pops up on the pad, then I trim down a whisker and its steady as she goes. I was trying to raise the engine height a few times and there is a very small sweet spot that if I had enough room without traffic I know I could go past 60 it seems to slowly creep up and each mph past 55 takes some time to get. Plus I was full gas, full oil jug, full cooler, wife and her three bags of lady whatever, knitting etc. I'm sure if I ran a quarter tank, solo run without all the extra tools and weight Im carrying I could shed an easy 300lbs out of it I think I could maybe hit 65 now that I figured out how to keep the chine walk under control.

Met another speed boat fan out there today who said its a small ear 23P chopper I want. I mentioned SRX and he looked excited lol. Aside from one time with too much engine height I had serious paddle wheel again there were no surprises today and she ran champ. So I think this thread has come to its end thank you guys all again for all the help!