Mixing Fuels... Gasoline, Methanol and Nitromethane.

[RUNWME]

My boat has 2 seperate 15 gallon tanks and a 155 PSI compression 2.5 out back.


I have raced Methanol in my rear engine dragsters for years (even mixing in nitro methane when going for LOW ET money) I ran the bracket dragster on gasoline in winter and methanol in summer. The reason for switching back and forth was the high condensation, hard starting and long warmup times for methanol during winter. I would change mypass pills and injector jets on mechanical injection system and in minutes could switch between Gasoline and Methanol.

I now have MAD EFI adjustable ecu, an alcohol compatible 500GPH fuel pump and could install braided lines on my boat. I am thinking about putting gas in one tank, and methanol/nitro mix in other tank. After setting up the alcohol fuel curve it seems like this would give me best of both worlds.
Gasoline for cruising, then switch to methanol/nitro when I really want to turn up the fun factor.
Seems like everything I need is at my finger tips. Has anyone tried this before? What were results?



Another option would be to mix methanol and gasoline 50/50 and setting up my fuel curve. Has anyone done that and what were results?

Thank you
David

[Forkin' Crazy]

Sounds like a lot of work setting it up. Wouldn't a 150 horse nitrous shot be easier? The Nitrox set up injects methanol with the NO2 instead of gas. Gotta love the smell of fuel though!
:)

[RUNWME]

Nitrous and methanol may be something I would consider. I have had nitrous on jetskis, boats and racecars and am familiar with it.
The drawbacks of nitrous in my setting is that nitrous is better for short bursts. I run on the river where we stretch it out for longer periods of time. That was always the dissapointing thing emptying the bottle.

To add nitrous, I would have to add another fuel tank (wouldnt want to use 15 gallon tank to provide 1 gallon of methanol that would be used with 1 bottle fill) In addition I would have to add another fuel pump to the dedicated system as gas would be flowing through my big pump. I would have to plumb the intake with the nozzles and set up.

Not saying this wont go the nitrous route, certainly that is HUGE bang for the buck.
But the methanol system I could run this afternoon just by richening the fuel curve on adjustable EFI and fill the tank with hot go juice.

thanks
David

[WATERWINGS]

David,

I'm keeping my eye on you!:D

[RUNWME]

Originally posted by WATERWINGS
David,

I'm keeping my eye on you!:D


John

I read day after day online where you are overcoming adversities and getting your motor together. YEAH!

Soon however, reality will set in and you will be back out on the water. If I don't do something quick to get my boat running faster you and I will leave Seine beach together, get under the bridge and open the throttles wide open. I will then realise my brief tenure of being undefeated in 2003 has expired as I watch you pull away.

Ofcourse I am not claiming to be fastest on river... there is always someone who has more ,faster better, but thus far I am undefeated for 2003. You, Joe Downing, and a host of others could put an end to my reign, but for now... ITS GOOD TO BE THE KING !! lol

There are many ways to retain undefeated status. I could not race anyone, only boat at 530 in am , or leave my Cougar at home.
But since I enjoy getting bugs in my teeth and hanging out with friends, I better order my nitrous system!!

See ya on the water
David

[W. Tripp]

While it sounds like a great idea.... Things to consider:

IF you are running the stock injectors, you need to check the flow rate to MAKE SURE the injector will flow enough methanol/Nitro mix to supply the engine.

Braided steel fuel lines are not needed, the teflon lined rubber ones will work. Braided lines can SOMETIMES act like an antenna for the RF the engine puts out. Thic can wreak havok with the ECU. Ever seen a magneto with solid plug wires run next to a electonically injected car at the strip? The magneto can SHUT DOWN the ECU on the other car.

Like you said, everything is at your fingertips - sounds like a fun project, good luck.

[TB21]

You wont actually see hardly any power increase going from gas to methonal unless you get the compression way up to like say above 13.5-1 or i'd say atleast 200 lbs. cranking pressure.....your 155 lbs is not near enough to take advantage of the slow burn of methonal. Also methonal and gas wont mix unless you add a 3rd component of which I cant remember for sure , I'd have to look in my old karting notes but I think it was benzene that allowed the 2 to mix If anyone knows for sure please correct me. Now if you wanted to change heads to 200+ lbs. and re-curve your SDS for alky , the plus is methonal is about 1/2 the price of cam2 or other race gas.....dont forget you have to flush the engine on gas after each outing. Oh and some oils wont mix well with methonal so becareful there. Goodluck TB

[mcollinstn]

Yeah, I knew somebody would get to the CR issue.

I ran alcohol thru a blown 2.4
Cranking compression was 210. Timing was 34 degrees.
Started it on gas, swapped to alky, flushed with gas after stopping.

I honestly haven't heard of anybody running the same setup on gas and alky. If it will run on gas, then the CR is too low to take advantage of alcohol, and if the CR is high enough for alcohol it it too high for gas...

Alcohol and nitro may be a different story and might work for you but I had been under the impression that nitro needed to be used a short time after being mixed with the alcohol or else it lost its kick or evaporated or fell out of suspension or something...

[RUNWME]

I pulled the gas out of the tanks and put straight methanol in to test how it would run. I didnt have to change my programmed fuel curve , I just pumped my fuel pressure from 42 psi to 55 psi (adj regulator) and turned the enrichment knob to give an extra 40% more fuel. Looks like to change from one to the other, it will be a matter of switching tanks and swinging the enrichment knob to approx 90%.

You are right about not seeing a huge difference. Out of the gate it launched much harder, but I didn't see anyincrease (or loss) in max rpm. EGT I ran max at 1050 (playing it safe) so there may have been more if I leaned it a bit.

In a Heavy slow drag car one time I did an experiment with nitromethane. The car ran 7.16 1/8 mile on gasoline with enderly injection.
Switched to alcohol and et dropped to 6.96. No big change in MPH but 60foot time was quicker to due harder launch.
THE BIG changes started occuring when mixing in Nitromethane.
at 10% car ran a 6.61 at 20% we went a 6.33 and at 40% went a 5.96 !!! IT WAS HAULING !! This was done with no other changes other then adding nitromethane to an injection mild bigblock chevy with hydraulic cam and 10 to 1 compression.

This improvement was drastic due to engine being very mild. My Dragster would have never ran 1.2 seconds faster because it was high compression roller cam engine working closer to volumetric efficiency. Same thing with nitrous. Nitrous oxide will add more power(jetted the same) to a low compression low rpm engine then it would a high compression or high rpm engine.

I didnt expect to see a big increase going to methanol versus gasoline without changing the engine to take advantage of slower burn rate of methanol. I would expect (but not know) that on methanol it would lubricate the bearings better due to the increase volume of liquid fuel going through the engine (40% more keeping 32-1 mixture as gasoline) as long as you ran on gas to get the hydroscopic methanol out of the motor before shutting down until the next week.
I would expect a large increase in power with relatively small mixtures of nitro (10%)mixed in with the nitro.
How much I can drive my injectors will dictate how far I take it on mixing in the nitro. I may be close to the point with just methanol, and then agian..........


I will get a baseline speed this weekend as my GPS will be here. I will play around with it and keep you posted as to my results.

Anyone with suggestions on oils, mixing or expected pitfalls, please voice your opinion! Thank you to those who already have.

David

[WATERWINGS]

David,

Let me get my boat running first, so I can pull you back to the dock!:D

[RUNWME]

Originally posted by WATERWINGS
David,

Let me get my boat running first, so I can pull you back to the dock!:D


JOHN ! NOT FUNNY!!!

If your towing me in it will be the only time your boat is in front of mine!!

David :D

[RUNWME]

haha ok.. I admit that was a little funny! just remember to bring your tow rope with you and all is forgiven! lol

[WATERWINGS]

Who was that saying that not going to crazy might make it last???

[RUNWME]

Ok , you got me. I said it, but I only said it because my wife was standing there with us while we were talking and its actually HER boat.

Today at lunch I was relaying what you said about towing us in if I blow the engine. She said "JOHN better not be talking you into trying to make the boat faster"
she has this silly idea that its "fast enough"

Well you won cool points with her as I said you were being the voice of reason and in no way had suggested my actions were an appropriate path.

I may need a place to sleep rather then towing services if she gets wind of the nitro injection.

David

:D

Will you have your Boat ready this weekend? Jennifer, Cameron(my 2yr old daughter) and I will be cruising around Saturday