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FORBESAUTO
04-07-2018, 07:21 AM
The only octane booster additive I have any faith in so far has been Aces. Used both the 2-stroke and diesel additives and am very satisfied with both. Saw this advertised on Engine Power tv this morning and has some big claims. Sounds like some good stuff. Wondering if anyone has had any dealings with it and if was as good as their claims.
http://race-gas.com/

marks86
04-07-2018, 09:54 AM
Never Hurd of it, my father uses val-trex something like that. With good success

FORBESAUTO
04-07-2018, 10:19 AM
I am skeptical of any so called "octane boosters", always felt if ya need the octane, get the right fuel. I run aces only as insurance in case I get crap gas and I'm on the ragged edge for 93. But I got a four wheeler I run 110 in, and it's a pain getting fuel at times. Would be nice if knew some type of additive could really give me the octane needed if got in a pinch and couldn't get the 110 fuel and wanted to go have some fun

gfinch
04-07-2018, 10:28 AM
Ace's is what I use regularly as insurance. When I have read the labels on "octane boosters" they only say in the fine print (1) octane point.

FMP
04-07-2018, 10:39 AM
Race-Gas, Royal Purple, Sunoco 260 fuel . MMT and it works

From the Sunoco site
Some high octane unleaded fuels, 260 GT Plus, and octane boosters contain the additive MMT. MMT is a very effective octane booster and doesn’t harm oxygen sensors or catalytic converters so, it is ideal for modern vehicles. Please note this additive is degraded by sunlight and can lose all octane boosting properties within minutes of exposure (L.Ter Haar). Degraded MMT will settle to the bottom of the container as a rust colored material that can clog fuel lines and filters. Extra care needs to be used when storing and handling MMT fuels in order to minimize contact with sunlight. The additive is stable in gasoline as long as no UV light hits the fuel. Sunoco 260 GT Plus is our only race fuel that contains MMT.

FORBESAUTO
04-07-2018, 11:07 AM
So if I got MMT fuel mixed in my VP fuel can for the four wheeler and gets exposed to sunlight it loses it boost abilities? That ain't gonna work. Explains why I have no faith in octane boosters lol, cause chances are somewhere in it's processing and shipping some dummy's gonna expose it to light:eek:

FORBESAUTO
04-07-2018, 11:10 AM
That's sounds like a statement made for legal purposes for when ya grenade a motor. Wasn't our fault you musta exposed it to sunlight:D

FMP
04-07-2018, 11:12 AM
Who leaves jerry cans in the bright sunlight? Pontoon boats with red plastic cans on the transom.
Shipping cans aren't light permeable

FORBESAUTO
04-07-2018, 11:15 AM
It said loses potency in minutes of exposure. If I'm four wheeler riding, kinda hard to protect my jug from sunlight

FORBESAUTO
04-07-2018, 11:16 AM
Sounds like very unstable garbage to me

FMP
04-07-2018, 11:21 AM
As is gas in a plastic can. So don't use it

FORBESAUTO
04-07-2018, 11:40 AM
All race fuels have to take caution when storing. I keep my 110 stored in a sealed metal container from VP until ready for use. Then put it in the VP carry container and take it to where we riding. If your not gonna be able to do that, then it's not gonna work for what I need it for. Plus I wouldn't trust a motor to something that of all things is sensitive to sun light. Not worth loosing a motor to

FMP
04-07-2018, 11:43 AM
It was in all the good pump gas years ago, trusted it then.

Dave Strong
04-07-2018, 11:48 AM
Race-Gas, Royal Purple, Sunoco 260 fuel . MMT and it works

From the Sunoco site
Some high octane unleaded fuels, 260 GT Plus, and octane boosters contain the additive MMT. MMT is a very effective octane booster and doesn’t harm oxygen sensors or catalytic converters so, it is ideal for modern vehicles. Please note this additive is degraded by sunlight and can lose all octane boosting properties within minutes of exposure (L.Ter Haar). Degraded MMT will settle to the bottom of the container as a rust colored material that can clog fuel lines and filters. Extra care needs to be used when storing and handling MMT fuels in order to minimize contact with sunlight. The additive is stable in gasoline as long as no UV light hits the fuel. Sunoco 260 GT Plus is our only race fuel that contains MMT.

MMT was banned in consumer fuel in the US back when Catalytic converters first became mandatory due to causing converter failure. Canada continued using MMT and for that reason auto manufactures had to extend warranty on converters and O2 sensors. The failure rate for these components was very high in Canada, but very low in the US.


Dave

FMP
04-07-2018, 12:01 PM
I've used it with cats, sensors no issues. The products that have it all say the same, no problems. Perhaps concentration had a play in certain failures. Extending warranties never made any sense if fuel was the cause. But today they've cancelled e testing newer cars because crap converters are failing on their own resulting in warranty claim because of failed test. Idiot codes aren't as strict as a sniff.

Dave Strong
04-07-2018, 12:14 PM
Canada used to have more failures in a year than all of the US. GM said it was the MMT's, it is a cheap dirty way to boost octane. Thus the higher failure rate in Canada as of 99 was still being put in Canadian fuels. Not longer with GM so not sure when or if it got banned in Canada. :leaving:

Dave

FMP
04-07-2018, 12:15 PM
Wait what, four wheeler 110? Can't be worker wheeler, they need to live on cat piss and rye in the woods.

FORBESAUTO
04-07-2018, 12:23 PM
Wait what, four wheeler 110? Can't be worker wheeler, they need to live on cat piss and rye in the woods.


Ya know I can't leave nuttin alone:D. It's a little 250x with 12.5/1. I tried 100 octane and detonated bad enough I could hear it:eek:. Runs perfect on 110, and smells good too:D

FMP
04-07-2018, 12:47 PM
Looks like you'll be riding in the dark:eek::reddevil:

FORBESAUTO
04-07-2018, 01:02 PM
Anybody know what all is in the VP 110 octane? Does it contain MMT? Been using it with no issues as far as breaking down goes. Also is the MMT as sensitive to sunlight as they make it sound?

Dave Strong
04-07-2018, 01:47 PM
110 was a fuel that VP recommended for use in 2 strokes.

Dave

FMP
04-07-2018, 01:55 PM
They VP does have mmt booster.
Old comparison
www.fuelexpert.co.za/Octane-Booster-Shootout.php
110 is leaded

FMP
04-07-2018, 02:14 PM
Canada used to have more failures in a year than all of the US. GM said it was the MMT's, it is a cheap dirty way to boost octane. Thus the higher failure rate in Canada as of 99 was still being put in Canadian fuels. Not longer with GM so not sure when or if it got banned in Canada. :leaving:

Dave

I remember it and all the who's at fault, remember my plugs. 91 shell, any idea how much toluene is in it or alc 94 PetroCan? I've mixed both with 20% total volume and Shell's at 96 then and it's good. That's without mmt. 110+ in a wheeler , get a thicker gasket or open the chamber.

FMP
04-07-2018, 02:37 PM
Just reading, the addition of mmt in gasoline is allowed in the US . A waiver was granted to allow concentrations of 8.3mg Mn/ L, amounts which are shown not to harm cats, etc. However probably not found in any day to day gas. Major Canadian refineries voluntarily stopped using adding it in 2004 for day to day gas.

Mark75H
04-07-2018, 02:37 PM
I remember the orange tinge in tailpipes when MMT was heavily used

FMP
04-07-2018, 03:13 PM
It said loses potency in minutes of exposure. If I'm four wheeler riding, kinda hard to protect my jug from sunlight

In unprotected unmixed condition, couple minutes of specific light to break bonds and loose effect. Mixed in suspension with somewhat filtered conditions from the solution and the plastic fuel container, although very limited may prolong exposure time I would think.

Krazymaan
04-07-2018, 11:16 PM
If you get it on your fingers and it stains them yellow/orange. then its good stuff

Chaz
04-08-2018, 05:51 AM
Anybody know what all is in the VP 110 octane? Does it contain MMT? Been using it with no issues as far as breaking down goes. Also is the MMT as sensitive to sunlight as they make it sound?

Yes

No

Of course you have , it's composed of clean aromatic hydrocarbons and a lil lead

3.1 3.2 ;)

Yes

Ignore 14.2 :D

https://vpracingfuels.com/wp-content/uploads/SDS/2018/012318/Racing_Fuels/VP-110-US-International-SDSg.pdf

r.c.
04-18-2018, 12:30 PM
I would be concerned about the specific gravity and oxygen content of the additive if mixing any volume.

rude tim
04-18-2018, 12:54 PM
Toluene is a great additive. It is not all about octane its more about resistance to detonation.

Mark75H
04-18-2018, 01:59 PM
Toluene is a great additive. It is not all about octane its more about resistance to detonation.

Resistance to detonation is the DEFINITION of octane rating, duh

Dave Strong
04-18-2018, 03:01 PM
Fuel needs energy to make power as well as resistance to knock.

Dave

FMP
04-18-2018, 06:05 PM
Resistance to detonation is the DEFINITION of octane rating, duh

/\/\/\/

powerabout
04-18-2018, 08:36 PM
we need a vid on the small engine that tests octane rating...

rude tim
04-18-2018, 09:36 PM
Resistance to detonation is the DEFINITION of octane rating, duh

You might want to do a little reading on Tolueline before you show your ignorance. F1 use to use it when they had the turbo 4 cylinders. At 100 octane it resist detonation extremely well. Do some reading.

Dave Strong
04-18-2018, 09:50 PM
You might want to do a little reading on Tolueline before you show your ignorance. F1 use to use it when they had the turbo 4 cylinders. At 100 octane it resist detonation extremely well. Do some reading.

Who cares about it's resistance to detonation. If it has no energy you are not making power. Water has high resistance to detonation but has zero energy.

Dave

rude tim
04-18-2018, 11:42 PM
Who cares about it's resistance to detonation. If it has no energy you are not making power. Water has high resistance to detonation but has zero energy.

Dave

Do a little research on Tolueline, it makes great hp per pound of fuel. The good thing is with 1 gallon per 15 gallons of gas it will do wonders. Ran at 100 % the F1 cars made increadable power using real high boost.

You can do a little test your self with a new computer controlled car or truck. Put 1 gallon of Tolueline in your car tank with 15 gallons of whatever gas you use. You will feel the difference in power, your knock censor will allow the timing to advance. There is no led or other metals so it does not hurt the cat.

powerabout
04-18-2018, 11:55 PM
You might want to do a little reading on Tolueline before you show your ignorance. F1 use to use it when they had the turbo 4 cylinders. At 100 octane it resist detonation extremely well. Do some reading.

I did some reading on google:

octane number
noun
noun: octane rating


a figure indicating the anti-knock properties of a fuel, based on a comparison with a mixture of isooctane and heptane.

Ron Mon Aki


toluene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluene)
121
107
114


VP C16 Race Fuel
117
118
117.5





re knock versus power..

Perfect example is av gas, has resistance to knock but its not as powerful as other fuels at the same octane rating

Motv18
04-19-2018, 04:37 AM
Toluene is awesome just keep nitrates away from it I’m sure you have heard of Tri Nitro Toulene “tnt it’s dynamite “ ac/dc

sulfer has something to do with benzo acids

and it’s bad for carbon parts.

Just about everything has some bad thing.

The f1 thing was 86% toulene 14 heptane

local hardware carries the paint thinner unless it’s on the huffing list ban.

rude tim
04-19-2018, 10:19 AM
I did some reading on google:

octane number
noun
noun: octane rating


a figure indicating the anti-knock properties of a fuel, based on a comparison with a mixture of isooctane and heptane.

Ron Mon Aki


toluene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluene)
121
107
114


VP C16 Race Fuel
117
118
117.5





re knock versus power..

Perfect example is av gas, has resistance to knock but its not as powerful as other fuels at the same octane rating


Now we are getting somewhere.

Lets go back to the original question about additives. When you add Toluene to gas it increases resistance to detonation. A relatively inexpensive way to gain performance. I have used this many times when running 190 pounds compression on an OMC 3liter that turned 8850 rpm and made 389hp. I had a 15 gallon tank I would put 14 gallons of gas and 1 gallon of Toluene.

Mark75H
04-19-2018, 04:54 PM
Certainly my last post in the tech section

FMP
04-19-2018, 05:34 PM
Lots of threads here on fuel
https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?331977-AV-Gas&

powerabout
04-19-2018, 07:11 PM
You might want to do a little reading on Tolueline before you show your ignorance. F1 use to use it when they had the turbo 4 cylinders. At 100 octane it resist detonation extremely well. Do some reading.
so your going to delete this post?

Dave Strong
04-19-2018, 07:21 PM
Fuel additives, the new oil thread.:rolleyes:

Dave

FMP
04-19-2018, 07:57 PM
How about certain fuels with certain oils with certain additives:eek:

powerabout
04-19-2018, 08:32 PM
How about certain fuels with certain oils with certain additives:eek:
mix it and send to a lab to get the octane tested

Chaz
04-19-2018, 09:41 PM
You Wal-Mart chemical engineers come up with some pretty dumb azz stuff ... :rolleyes:

Chaz = thinking let me know when you start mixing , I want to get my old Stroud SFI.15 suit out of the closet ... :p

FMP
04-20-2018, 08:01 AM
mix it and send to a lab to get the octane tested

Yeah but I'm not adding any /\/\/\/ lol

Motv18
04-22-2018, 11:43 PM
Nitro methane

that will take 100psi of bost and melt the plugs halfway down the track.

Only the best why why mess with the rest.

Now imagine this find

olboatman
04-23-2018, 02:07 PM
WOW I missed this one.....and I love popcorn!!!!! I have a question though----Has anyone tried the Race Gas additive as asked? If I am correct the tv add also says it produces more "power" and dyno proved. Couldn't that have been done by the additive increasing octane and then they added timing?
Gary

XstreamVking
04-23-2018, 02:46 PM
Hi, I'm Billy Mays and have I got some octane booster for you! Run as much timing as you want, go as lean as you want. It won't matter! It's that good.....

90 5.0
04-23-2018, 04:01 PM
How about an additive to lower octane in race gas ? My motor hits harder on pump gas than race gas, that would be nice LOLOL.

FMP
04-23-2018, 04:17 PM
Just got off the phone with the local speed shop. Race gas Additive when mixed to the highest concentration as indicated on the can, 7oz/ gallon will get 94 octane rated pump gas to 107! MMT as Royal Purple but just more of it. They're doing a comparison in the next couple weeks on the dyno with some type of LS set up.
Yeah lots of high compression or boosted customers use it. Programed ign fuel to use the higher octane achieved with the additives and self detune with lower fuels , sensors etc.

Markus
04-24-2018, 10:12 AM
Certainly my last post in the tech section

Please stay.

There is a need to help educate the folks here. Most of them know very little about fuels, and are gullible to snake oil like ACES...

Btw, I think Rude Tim quoted the wrong post.

rude tim
04-25-2018, 12:59 AM
Mark75h,
I want to extend my apologies to you. I let your comment get the best of me. We are on this site to offer up our experience to try and help each other out. I am sure you have helped a lot of people and hope that you will continue.

Chaz
04-25-2018, 07:33 AM
Excellent post Mr. Tim .... :thumbsup:

OK so now that we all agree that everyone from the fuel manufactures themselves to the home brew DIY octane booster crowd use Toluene as their base .

Lets move on to " Xylene " :D

Motv18
04-25-2018, 12:57 PM
Yep on race fuel additives. Most are .... adding real race fuel can also be ...

xylene is 117 and slow burn some also say it takes lube as it washes things faster then ethanol

you can buy mtbe (sold as start!) and boost octane as well as long as it’s not already bosted by butyl Ether.

Just remember aki rating doesn’t mean power. And slow unburned fuel or burning in the tuner doesn’t make power. You might not build carbon and each is different on how much they can take before detrimental effects.

We de carbonized several one year s a side effect of running 91-93 in 80-100 psi spec engines some even ran fine.

Go figure.