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midgethotrod
05-02-2003, 06:20 PM
hey guys I know you are into bigger boats and newer ones but I need some help. I have am 8ft 3 point hydro and a '53 champion hot rod 7.5hp race motor, and I can only get 30mph out of it. I was wondering if anyone had a 15 cubic inch powerhead i could put on it, as mines 9.66 cubes!! I am going to get a 1971 merc 200 20hp and was wondering about mods....Are you kidding me, I saw an old post about a 20hp doing 72 miles and hour??? IS THAT POSSIBLE?! I need a merc KG7H/25SS....My friend has a 25SS but wont let me run it on my hydro because he thinks its too much?? I said let me put a 7 X 13.5 prop on it and putt around..still nope. I do some mods, have a 5hp firestone engine and added expansion chamber huge reed block and huge carb along with electronic ignition / milled head / ported, will be testing at AOMCI meet in webster, ma the 10th of may, the thing revs up nicely. I get my @$$ smoked by other people in their boats and it gets me heated! My hydro has a HP limit of 20HP. I have steering and throttle and can jack the motors. Anyone got any old small props or race motors? HEEEEEEEELPPPPPPPPPP!!

Raceman
05-03-2003, 09:14 AM
Welcome to ScreamandFly. There are very few folks around here with much knowledge on older small stuff, although there are a few. I don't know much about the Champion Hotrods, except that they were more than competitive in their day. I'm surprised that you don't see but 30 MPH, even with the smaller one, if all the components are matched, A motor on an A boat, right prop, etc. I doubt that there's much you can do to the old Merc 200. I would still think that stock you'd see a tremendous increase past your present 30 MPH with the right blade and setup.

Post some pictures if you can.

Gordie Miller
05-03-2003, 09:47 AM
Go to hydroracer.net, that is the place for kneel down info. There are even some guys over there from Mass. Good Luck

KEVIN NICHOLS
05-03-2003, 11:09 AM
you have a ''a'' hotrod..they are good motors if you want to get rid of it call TOM MOLDER he is the hotrod man...he still builds this engine but it is very up dated than the old ones...i have a mark 25 merc power head that has great compression that you may be interesred in give me a call or e-mail me jnichols1220@msn.com or call 205-302-0822.............i have several hydro props too....

midgethotrod
05-03-2003, 01:41 PM
hey guys, I got my champ from tom moulder, my hydro doesn't have air traps, I guess they make a difference in MPH? My hydro transome height is 14 inches, I think the motor is run on 13 inch transome, my cavitation plate doesn't go below the bottom of the boat! Left hand rotation small 2 blade props are what I'm looking for...I do have an older mark 7 with 2 michigan aquajet speed props if anyone wants to trade for a champ 15 cube powerhead...Check out my website @ www.geocities.comkg7/merc and check out all the pictures pages and links, theres pics of my hotrod and hydro....thanks for the help!

Raceman
05-03-2003, 02:40 PM
Midget, if your cavitation plate is anywhere near the bottom of the boat that might be your speed problem. Sounds like the motor's WAY too low. You should have just the torpedo part below the bottom. On the bigger stuff that everybody runs now, with setback and modern prop technology, the propshaft itself is frequently above the bottom. Like Gordie said, maybe some of the kneel down guys at the other site can help some if you ask some specific setup questions.

Raceman
05-03-2003, 02:42 PM
Midget, this is what I got when I clicked on your link:

Can't Find the Web Site www.geocities.comkg7
500 Unknown Host
The site may no longer exist or it may have moved.

midgethotrod
05-03-2003, 04:01 PM
sorry for the typo, its www.geocities.com/kg7merc I've been told with my powerhead I can't jack it out of the water too much....if I move to a bigger powerhead then it's possible. Theres an aomci meet in webster, massachusetts may 10th, real nice meet I'll be there with all my stuff...where are you guys located?

Raceman
05-03-2003, 09:13 PM
I don't have any experience to speak of with the smaller stuff, but I can't imagine a logical reason that a bigger powerhead would work and differently than a small one from a transom height standpoint.

Mark75H
05-05-2003, 07:08 PM
Your friend is correct, the 8 footer is too little for the 25SS. If you are serious about going fast you need a fat wallet, there is great competition for racing parts and motors, especially classic stuff. On eBay this weekend a 1956/57 30hp racing Merc went for over $2700.

If you weigh any more than 100 pounds 30 mph is probably all you are going to get out of the Hot Rod A on an old style hydro.

There are no B Stock hydro records in excess of 70 mph, your source for that was an exaggertion. But, the old alky/nitromethane record for 20 cubic inch all out racing motor on a hydro was 122+ mph. Both the boat and motor were very special. The current alcohol fuel record is a little under 114 mph.

midgethotrod
05-05-2003, 08:02 PM
I'm not sure if my motor really is a true ''A'' and not a J. It's only 9.66 cubes, and back then champion made a 15 cube engine and a 20 cube hot rod. The 15 cuber was raced in it's own class, 15SS. Now the B class hotrods that are raced today are mostly newer american hot rod powerheads / assys' consisting of 15 cubes, not 20! Yes a 15 cube marked in a B class, but not running against the b merc KG7H which is around 20 cubes. (I was referring to a 20hp going 70mph from a thread I saw posted on the board from a later date) I don't want to go at an excess speed of 70mph in such small boat, but will probably use the 25SS with C hydro and with correct setup it will run about 58MPH. I know one of the class B records was indeed a hot rod running at 69.22MPH .... and this was stock. I could get more speed out of my little hot rod if I had air traps, especially if I had a 15 cube powerhead. Up to a 9mph gain with air traps alone. My hydro is not an official 'classed' hydro, but more of a cottage racer, but still a 3 point. Alkys are fun, but the money part isn't! The old mercs are nice mark 30H , KG7H/Q, KG4H are nice but hard to find, people get them and restore them and sit em' on a stand. Anyone have a 25SS they would like to get rid of? The 25ss originated from people putting OMC powerheads on merc tower/foot via an adapter plate and racing them, finally merc just produced a motor and didn't let the omcs race in that class. I will probably sell my hydro later on so if your interested give me a shout. :rolleyes:

Mark75H
05-05-2003, 09:48 PM
I can't find a BSH (Merc or Hot Rod) record over 68.705 mph. Strangely the BSR record is higher at 69.227 mph.

25ss competition speeds are in the 70mph range for straights, record average speeds for the round courses is over 65 mph averaged for the whole race, including slowing down to the 35 mph range through the turns. Wartinger's record in 25ss is over 75mph.

You can check out the current records at the APBA's website.

Airtraps aren't going to add as much speed as handling. Give it a try and report back.

ALL racing stuff is commanding pretty high bucks, good luck on your quest. A lower unit for a 25SS Merc or OMC will run you in the $500 to $700 range these days. A complete OMC 25SS went for $920 on eBay last winter.

And yes, I do recall someone claiming to run over 70 with an old Merc 20. That was not a competition weight rig and never confirmed by anyone but the driver. Remember, there are a lot of speedometers that are not accurate and a lot of drivers that will tack on a few mph.

D rocket
05-10-2003, 06:20 PM
I have a 25ss that is complete,stock and runs great. What's it worth ? I don't have a prop anymore and my boat rotted .
Thanks DeWitt

Instigator
05-15-2003, 07:52 AM
if you really are gettinig 30 mph out of your rig, thats flying!!
Especially if it's a 10 cu in motor
a true "A" is 15, while a "J" is 7.5
Add full length air traps. w/o them, you are making next to no lift!
the traps do exactly what their name implies
it seals the bottom to the water to build air pressure which lifts the boat, reducinig drag.
Tom Moulder is Mr. Hot Rod!! He should be able to tell you what ever you need to know about the motor.
With an 8' rig, weight is your enemy!
Body weight, hull weight and motor weight!
If you want to keep the boat you have, go find an old 2 cyl Merc.
They are startinig to get harder to find and now expensive due to all the idiot collectors that call anything wityh a Merc badge a "race motor".
I used to run a 20 cu in Merc KG7 on a direct drive fishing lower unit at about 40 on my old 8' Tiny Titan and it was an over weight pig!!
At that speed you wont see much difference between fish and race lower units. I ran both on my old boat and saw very little difference. If it's heavy and slow don't waist your time or money!
The motor I mentioned is only 60 lbs and makes 18 HP stock.
I made a nnose cone and added open pipes to mine. It made no difference in speed but looked cool and sounded awesome!:D
For better help, go to the site Gordie mentioned. They live and breathe this stuff and will not rape you on price like the collectors will.
Another option would be to get their help on a complete rig.
After i quit racing I bought outdated race boats for toys, for years after i quit!! You could probably get a boat and trailer for a few hundred $$ that is a real race boat, just no longer competitive.
Same thting with a motor.
an older Yamato or non legal class motor could put you safley into the 60's on the cheap!
Good Luck!

midgethotrod
05-15-2003, 03:34 PM
Collectors get me mad sometimes. I know this guy who has over 70 mercs, (about 10 race engines) and he doesn't use them at all! If your going to hang a motor on wall let it be at least two or at least use some small HP non-desired motor or RARE. I need to find a 2 cyl merc if I ever can and a C class hydro. I think I found a 25ss, I'd be so happy if I can get it, that way I could run it on my friend's runabout until I sell my 8 foot hydro rig and snowmobiles. If anyone has pics of some old mercs post em', or old hydros!

D rocket
05-15-2003, 05:20 PM
I dug mine out of my storage room and I'll post pic's monday.
I'll sell it but dont know what to ask.
Thanks DeWitt

Mark75H
05-15-2003, 05:51 PM
I'm with you on the collectors Shawn. Some of those finks don't even bring them to shows.......the just collect and hoard, it is insane.

I'll check on the going price on a 25xs. I think $2 or $3k, they are still pretty valuable to racers.

Raceman
05-15-2003, 06:02 PM
"the just collect and hoard is insane"

Say what??????? Who you callin' a hoard?


Dewitt, I'd like a shot at that motor when you get it out. 'Course I'd like to buy it for less than "what it's worth".:D :D

Mark75H
05-15-2003, 06:30 PM
OK, I have to write you a special exception note, Raceman. You do give tours and show us pictures. The guys I'm really complaining about are the black holes. Stuff gets sucked in and never seen again. At least yours is seen.

midgethotrod
05-18-2003, 10:53 AM
hey mark75H , do you have a certain motor thats got a bright red powerhead and was an old F class rare racer?? thats gotta be interesting, ever run it?? I have a KG7 stock engine but I need to get a crank for it, the guy borrowed it for another motor. I've seen rat racers on www.outboardracing.com etc. I'm going to put air traps on my hydro this week and next weekend see how the hydro turns out, your right I dont have any lift. The little hot rod puts out quite the rooster tail, haha. hope to get alot of pics in later on. The lake that I run my hydro on, theres not jet skiis allowed, once the green police saw the rooster tail and me kneeling they pulled me over since they were curious, I pulled a hard turn and stopped, they had to make a wide turn and come back, didn't think the hydro was that flexable.. It seems like with the motor jacked up a little bit and with a cupped prop it handles better in turns in the water? It really takes some good turns, I do have a turning fin too..

midgethotrod
05-18-2003, 10:55 AM
hey dewitt, I thought it was a 25SS? or is it a 25XS? get some pics out.....!

Mark75H
05-18-2003, 12:01 PM
I do have most of one of the 3 cylinder McCulloch racers........the red ones. I do not own the one on Charlie Williams' site, I think that one is in Idaho and is just a mid and lower unit with a stock 75 or 60 hp powerhead, not the special 88 hp racing powerhead.

Mine is less the original lower unit, original starter and original flywheel.

I may run mine next month at a race in Maryland.

Here's the one on Charlie's site:

Dave S
05-18-2003, 02:10 PM
This is DarthVader. How dare you mention our Death Planet. You will be vaperorized Mr. 75H. we have your location in our sigths.

midgethotrod
05-19-2003, 03:50 PM
I met a guy at a lake in conneticut who restored old cars and picked up an old hydro and Mcollough (that how you spell it?!) 3 cylinder racer but I forgot his phone number!! Any of you guys have any small (2 cylinder) race engines? I found a crank for my KG7 and i'm looking for quicksilver H/Q parts (which I doubt I will ever find) and I really need a champion sweet 16 or swanson american hot rod 15 cube powerhead / bigger style clamp brackets! Seeking a C hydro and 25SS later on........Also putting air traps on my hydro too see if theres any performance gain...heres a pic of me and the hot rod (with my small hydro ) a while ago...

Dave S
05-20-2003, 09:27 PM
That is a nice boat, it looks like it can float a bigger motor. That is the kind of boat I had when I was young. Keep looking , you will find a motor somewere.

2.5H
05-21-2003, 09:52 PM
Hey Midgethotrod!
I would strongly suggest you try to attend the APBA Eastern Divisional races being held on June 21 & 22 at Watson's Pond in Taunton, Mass. To get there take I 495 to the Bay St exit and head towards Taunton. The park entrance will be about 1 mile on the right.
If you go there you may see some hotrods being raced, and certainly will be able to talk to the drivers about their rigs. Look for Howard Pickerell (86-N) who I know runs hotrods, or Bill Giles (3-B) who used to and may still. I would meet you there but unfortunately they decided not to run outboard drags so I will not be attending.
Good Luck!
Brad

Mark75H
05-21-2003, 10:32 PM
I think Mr. Giles may well be there, but I don't think he's driving anymore, is he? He is still building winning boats, though!

Another Hot Rod racer to connect with is Phil DeFibo from Wilmington DE......look for boat with the "Q" geographic designation as in 24Q.......Q means Delaware

Instigator
06-02-2003, 08:39 AM
here's a motor for you. Buttttttttttttttttt, don't putt it on your 8 footer, it will hurt you!!
If you want tto learnn about the style of boats you are playing with take the earlier advice annd attend an APBA Stock or Mod O/b race. Those guys love nothing better than helpinig a young buck like you.
Trust me, I was you 30 yrs ago!!
Good luck, and be safe!
Gary
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2417839515&category=26454
P.S. Spaceman, let the kid have first dibs if he wants it!