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Instigator
01-12-2018, 08:21 PM
Always wanted to do this and finally flipped the switch after stumbling on this donor.

Timing couldnt have been worse with it requiring a road trip to Philli a wk before we were to move but I try not to let common sense interfere w/my boat buying decisions.

I've restored two twin O/B 24' Sonics and owned them for 14 yrs collectively. Way longer than any other boat Ive owned.
I loved them.
Not the Sonics so much as that type boating. They were inner liner boats and I didnt like that.
But, something about driving them and then being able to spend the weekend on it.
I remember shopping for the first one and talking to a dealer in NY w/one for sale and he told me on the phone, "they're a drivers boat, and a hand full to drive fast".
That was all I needed to hear.

Anyhow, to the Checkmate.
I sold them in '89/90 and we had two I/O 25' Convincors and I spent that entire time looking at dealer pricing trying to make the math work on a O/B model but I wasnt even close to being able to afford a new one at the time.

On top of that, the O/B versions had splash wells and no sun lounge. Two big strikes for me.
If you pull the motor out of an I/O version you end up w/a garage under the sun lounge! And we use our boats as boats.
So that storage will hold our two fold up bicycles for exploring, the Walmart dinghy to get to shore from anchor, chairs, grill etc for the beach.

So yrs ago I came up w/the idea of finding an I/O boat w/a popped motor (making it cheap), pull all the cast iron crap out and selling it and the drive train to help fund the project.
And to find a clean one.
So Im only doing the conversion and not a complete restoration like both Sonics.

The donor:

'1986 Convincor w/a stroker 454 that dropped a valve and a Bravo drive on a near new aluminum trailer, which I really wanted.
Previous owner redid the interior but unfortunately stored it outside w/a leaking cover so a bunch of that wood needs redone.

The boat is a very rare white w/silver stripes, which Ive never seen before, that I love.

W/our move, I lost my shop until building a new one which will probably be spring thanks to our Ohio winters.

All I have now are "before" pixs.

On power, I explored all options.
I established a $10K budget for power.

Im still brain storming on brackets too. At current prices of new, Im inclined to either draw up plans and take them to a local fab shop or build one out of glass.
The bracket on the 2nd Sonic was glass.

Today I committed to a pair of '2009 300 hp E-Tecs with '2013 factory replacement, full dressed powerheads.
Having them inspected/tested Monday.

The good is, these are the 3.4 liter stroker motors.
The bad is, they have the gargantuan magnum gear cases. Likely, I will replace them w/the smaller standard 3.0 cases and keep the magnums as backup.

Ill also paint them silver to match the stripe on the boat then do graphics for them in black.
They should pop.

Wont be able to do much until new shop is built, or spring, whichever comes first.
That will kill me.

Should be a really nice, rare piece when done though.

PS, mistakenly put this on the tech page orig.

Instigator
01-12-2018, 08:23 PM
I stumbled on this the other day and really like the comparison/differences between the two.

The Sonics had an 8' beam where the Convincor is only 7 1/2' but the the Sonics lost cockpit/interior space to the liner so they're actually very close.
You can see how much deeper the Sonics were.

baja200merk
01-13-2018, 10:35 AM
Those motors are gonna make you throw every carb part u have in the dumpster. :D

Keep a close eye on cyl 4 they crack the block behind the sleeve and start spraying water in that cyl. Might be why the Powerheads were replaced. Out of the 25 3.4s I’ve owned I’ve fixed Atleast 5 and have 5 more that need to be fixed. Granted I only buy them broken.

Instigator
01-13-2018, 12:33 PM
Those motors are gonna make you throw every carb part u have in the dumpster. :D

Keep a close eye on cyl 4 they crack the block behind the sleeve and start spraying water in that cyl. Might be why the Powerheads were replaced. Out of the 25 3.4s I’ve owned I’ve fixed Atleast 5 and have 5 more that need to be fixed. Granted I only buy them broken.
Thx for the tip Bro.

They were all running when replaced. Had them on a custom, dual station. 39' center console w/the "I-con" I think was called.
Where the motors are fly by wire.
Had unending problems w/that system and owned by a person of wealth and power ��

Dave Strong
01-13-2018, 12:45 PM
Love the boat Gary, look forward to seeing it all done.:thumbsup:

Dave

baja200merk
01-13-2018, 01:01 PM
The later Ones are much more refined you will like them. Better ignition, better map and improved oiling but there’s an oil trough behind the sleeve. It lets oil out of a hole in the sleeve puts oil between the exhaust port and top transfer port. Well when the block cracks that oil hole pumps sea water out of it instead of oil. :eek: I’ve never met a dealer that’s herd of this problem but that’s cause they just call Evinrude and get a new Powerhead. I end up with the broken stuff and it usually rusts out the crank which is 3.4 specific $1700 dealer cost. :rolleyes:

I love my 3.4, 1.62 and a 32 pulls like a freight train. :thumbsup:

https://youtu.be/cu_9KvKxr2E

MODVP22
01-13-2018, 01:13 PM
Subscribed

Instigator
01-13-2018, 01:55 PM
I really like that in '13, they got all new, complete, dressed p. heads.

MiamiDave sent me your video.
Way cool!
W/a 32"? I'd call that, TORQUE!

That will be good for my pig too ��

Capt.Insane-o
01-13-2018, 02:57 PM
Your going to want a bracket with a good amount of floatation at rest

Instigator
01-13-2018, 03:09 PM
Your going to want a bracket with a good amount of floatation at rest
Yep
Both Sonics had that. First one came w/Gil brackets and were replace w/an integral platform w/a flotation and raised freeboard 4" as I recall.

i should be able to drop some weight from motors but looks like I'll be adding 150 lbs compared to what I'm used to.
Beam is 6" narrower too so I may have to play w/weight distribution.

PS, your comment on the dinghy thread about a vintage motor has me going ��

MODVP22
01-13-2018, 03:56 PM
Yep
Both Sonics had that. First one came w/Gil brackets and were replace w/an integral platform w/a flotation and raised freeboard 4" as I recall.

i should be able to drop some weight from motors but looks like I'll be adding 150 lbs compared to what I'm used to.
Beam is 6" narrower too so I may have to play w/weight distribution.

PS, your comment on the dinghy thread about a vintage motor has me going ��

the style with a platform would make extra room for inflating water toys or the dingy you mentioned earlier.

FMP
01-13-2018, 03:58 PM
The big gear cases going to drag things down that much?

Instigator
01-13-2018, 04:58 PM
the style with a platform would make extra room for inflating water toys or the dingy you mentioned earlier.
Yep

Once I replaced the orig Gill tube style brackets on the first Sonic, I was hooked. And think most larger O/B boats would be better w/one of these.

FMP, I've heard everything from 3 - 6 mph's. and I will have two of them. Being bigger = heavier also. If I can save 10 lbs per, thats 20 lbs and Id be happy w/that.

FMP
01-13-2018, 05:25 PM
5 mph is noticeable but are you better in the heavy chop running hard with the big cases? 20 lbs , never notice it.

Instigator
01-13-2018, 06:28 PM
5 mph is noticeable but are you better in the heavy chop running hard with the big cases? 20 lbs , never notice it.
Never had a problem w/the Sonics.

Instigator
01-16-2018, 05:52 PM
Back on the motor market.

E-tecs were full of water.

baja200merk
01-16-2018, 09:24 PM
Back on the motor market.

E-tecs were full of water.
Water control valves feed them some salt spray?

H2OPERF
01-17-2018, 09:17 AM
Yea that that wiped out a friends 250.. Idled up an inlet and he said it was kind missing on the way in.. let it sit for a week and then called me to say he thought it needed plugs ,was locked up solid..

Instigator
01-17-2018, 09:21 AM
Water control valves feed them some salt spray?
Nope.

See other thread on the motor search.

Never heard of that one though.

In my mind, that's one more vote for keeping it old school.

baja200merk
01-17-2018, 09:27 AM
Nope.

See other thread on the motor search.

Never heard of that one though.

In my mind, that's one more vote for keeping it old school.

Ahh can’t fix stupid... old school wouldn’t fare any better stored like that. If they were selling them within your budget I’d expect there to be more to the story. They will bring $10k+ each.

People drink the coolaid “no maintenance for 300hrs” doesn’t mean u can’t take the cowl off and take a peak maybe a coat of CRC. Buying a 3.4 today back of the throttle bodies look like an oyster bar runs fine compression is all wacky from salt in the ring lands and washing oil away.

Instigator
01-17-2018, 09:50 AM
Ahh can’t fix stupid... old school wouldn’t fare any better stored like that. If they were selling them within your budget I’d expect there to be more to the story. They will bring $10k+ each.

People drink the coolaid “no maintenance for 300hrs” doesn’t mean u can’t take the cowl off and take a peak maybe a coat of CRC. Buying a 3.4 today back of the throttle bodies look like an oyster bar runs fine compression is all wacky from salt in the ring lands and washing oil away.
Agreed to all above.

But on old school, no $1k guess as to problem.

Dont take 2 hrs to strip crap off the p.head to start mechanicals.

A castrophic failure in old school is a piston, sleeve and two days work.
2 days, $300 and back on the water.

I love the new technology but not the weight and expense.

W/the Checkmate being 6" narrower than the Sonic too..

I still want a pair but reality is probably something different.

What really got me going though Kevin is when I established that $10,000 budget and started shopping the Optis and E-Tecs started surfacing.
After 30 days of shopping though most of those are motors with no history and through wholesalers.

What's the old adage, if it sounds too good to be true…

baja200merk
01-17-2018, 10:41 AM
Agreed to all above.

But on old school, no $1k guess as to problem.

Dont take 2 hrs to strip crap off the p.head to start mechanicals.

A castrophic failure in old school is a piston, sleeve and two days work.
2 days, $300 and back on the water.

I love the new technology but not the weight and expense.

W/the Checkmate being 6" narrower than the Sonic too..

I still want a pair but reality is probably something different.

What really got me going though Kevin is when I established that $10,000 budget and started shopping the Optis and E-Tecs started surfacing.
After 30 days of shopping though most of those are motors with no history and through wholesalers.

What's the old adage, if it sounds too good to be true…

If you have never torn one down Its really easy. Nothin you can’t get to with an impact. Even Sliding a piston in is easier with strait Etec front. Same deal a new wiseco is $60 bucks. Same with the sleeve except they slide out easier flanged and only .003 interfereance. I think you should buy a pair needing rebuild. build a pair u know what u got and would come in under budget. :thumbsup:

I know the deal too good to be true Ive rolled the dice and lost. Sight unseen is always a gamble.

FMP
01-17-2018, 10:55 AM
Could always hang half a dozen CHRYSLERS on her, 1500LBS, 840HP.
Sorry they didn't pan out.

Instigator
01-17-2018, 03:11 PM
If you have never torn one down Its really easy. Nothin you can’t get to with an impact. Even Sliding a piston in is easier with strait Etec front. Same deal a new wiseco is $60 bucks. Same with the sleeve except they slide out easier flanged and only .003 interfereance. I think you should buy a pair needing rebuild. build a pair u know what u got and would come in under budget. :thumbsup:

I know the deal too good to be true Ive rolled the dice and lost. Sight unseen is always a gamble.

Kevin, when are you going to put some graphics on that motor.
Its starting to annoy me ;)

magnum2.5
01-17-2018, 06:16 PM
back working on my 23 CAT with the old school 1990 4 ltr evolution GT 300 offshore V/8...been sitting awhile now,went to the car wash for hour's to clean her up,interoor was ruff but thanks to MAJIC ERASSORS it's fine, pulled fuel tank out, re-plumbing, even the 1000 amp hr batteries were still up, this time should be just man hrs not big $$$, found a 15 1/2 24p 4-blade MACH cleaver to break her in, want to be ready for RIVER RANCH...put together four chase boats while it was sitting, ended up with a nice 20' Sea Craft with a 7-pedal 2.4 merc v/6...so I'm ready on that side...I'ts a labor of love working by your self, just takes time and energy to get the THRILL...

baja200merk
01-17-2018, 06:53 PM
Kevin, when are you going to put some graphics on that motor.
Its starting to annoy me ;)
I spend $723.00 on charcoal graphics from Evinrude 2014 300 this 16” is going to be painted charcoal and put on my 24 Skater with another next to it. I have a 12” v8 Mid with f1 cowl and a CCC through transom KR clamp I’m half way done building for t-3. It will knock 60+lbs off the transom and it’s still 3.5L :D

Instigator
01-17-2018, 08:06 PM
Magnum, good to hear dude.
Every time I think about bitching about my lack of shop space up here (temporarily) I remember you and my other friends in Fla that have no shop, no budget and work outside.
Ill never forget one of my very early visits to Fla and was visiting a friend (Talon 2.5) and bitching about my shop set up back in Ohio.'

He walked me out to his one car garage and showed me his very nice work bench and his wifes car that stayed in the garage.
His Talon was outide, beside the garage.
I never bitched again.

Kevin, cant wait to see them both!
Sounds evil.

FMP
01-17-2018, 09:22 PM
OK 750lbs , 420hp.

Instigator
01-21-2018, 04:33 PM
Learned something today.

The O/B 25' Convincors have fuel tanks 2' longer (aft) than the I/O boats like mine. As in, 20 gls additional fuel.
The O/B tanks extend 2' into what would be engine compartment in my I/O boat.

Mine is only 60" and that runs full way from step into cabin to bulkhead just forward of I/O chunk.
Once thats gone, the tank can grow.

Good stuff.

Chaz
01-21-2018, 06:37 PM
OK 750lbs , 420hp.

FUMP ... my JohnRude Budda's know that even if they were to start off wiff a dozen little hen's teeth chizzler'z thumb screwed across the transom , the only way they would get home is with one of these .... :p


https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.q2UTmis2v0ReXJ2v1PFnwQHaFc&pid=Api&P=0&w=240&h=177

FMP
01-21-2018, 06:40 PM
Glad your feeling good:thumbsup:

Dave Strong
01-21-2018, 06:46 PM
FUMP ... my JohnRude Budda's know that even if they were to start off wiff a dozen little hen's teeth chizzler'z thumb screwed across the transom , the only way they would get home is with one of these .... :p


https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.q2UTmis2v0ReXJ2v1PFnwQHaFc&pid=Api&P=0&w=240&h=177

LMAO, Thanks for that Chaz.;):D

Dave

Chaz
01-21-2018, 06:51 PM
And your lil chizzlers were also healthy when they were West Bends . :p

Funny , I live about a mile from the BRP test center . When they **** something up that they cant figure out the fix , they run to a little two bay shop around the corner from me .... ironic , ehhh ????? :o

FMP
01-21-2018, 07:00 PM
DragonFly

Instigator
01-21-2018, 07:31 PM
Bla ha ha!

Youd have to double his guess on weight for spare pts and tools.

I bet if you used wing nuts for head bolts, by the 2nd or 3rd one you could change pistons w/o shutting the motors off.


FUMP ... my JohnRude Budda's know that even if they were to start off wiff a dozen little hen's teeth chizzler'z thumb screwed across the transom , the only way they would get home is with one of these .... :p


https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.q2UTmis2v0ReXJ2v1PFnwQHaFc&pid=Api&P=0&w=240&h=177

FMP
01-21-2018, 07:42 PM
Like a Hula Popper cast into an eddy

Instigator
02-04-2018, 12:56 PM
Slight progress but w/our Ohio winter and no shop, Im going crazy not being able to tear into this thing.

Sooooooooooo, sold the exhaust and rims and tires.

Bought new rims/tires.

Have a virgin set of 27" Hoss Hyperdives on the way.

Also a set of zero effort racing controls coming.

Got a set of lighted boat/trailer guides waiting to be installed. I really like these things.
On a short/steep ramp w/a side wind, the boat drifts off as you pull out. W/guides it wont.
Being lighted, they are great at night too. Lets you see the lights/corner of trailer from tow vehicle mirrors.
Especially nice on trailers wider than tow vehicle.

Included some pixs today.

#1 for those asking about the bracket and 25" instead of 20" this is a good shot of my old 24' Sonic.
I installed that bracket for 25" motors. W/20's it would be 5" lower. The Convincor is also 6" narrower so will sit deeper.
Add 2 adults to the swim platform and it would be under water.

#2 is the e-bay folding bikes being paddled to shore (to explore our port of call) in our $40 Walmart dinghy.
All of which will store under the sun lounge.

#3 the grill that also goes in the "shed".

#4 morning coffee.

#5 Sonic #1 in front of the Beer Barrel at Put In Bay on South Bass Island, Lake Erie 20 yrs ago.

#6 One of my favorite shots. Sonic #1 at Pelee Island, Canadian water of Lake Erie, very early spring, to cure a severe case of cabin fever.

#7 Always said when you take a small boat to Lake Erie you need a backup plan like this time. After towing 3+ hrs to the lake, it was too rough to go in. We did the bar tour pulling the Winnebago behind us and this was the final stop. Spent the night in the boat in their parking lot then back to the bar for breakfast.
In the water after breakfast.

#8 Sonic #2 at Hog Heaven in Islamorada.

Ive done every type boating and this is my favorite. A different story every trip.

This why I'm doing what I'm doing.
Lots of cuddy owners arent aware they can do this same type of adventure.
Thinking of starting a club.

David
02-04-2018, 01:34 PM
Pelee Island is a great idea. I should take the ferry

Instigator
02-04-2018, 02:39 PM
Pelee Island is a great idea. I should take the ferry
If you like natural beauty....., it's the best.

Ferry leaves from Kingsvle and Leamington.
New ferry going into service this spring.
Old one gets rehabbed then back into service on the US side.
10 times size of existing.

That and weather are everything to the islands survival.

Search "Idland Unplugged" on facebook.
Way cool weekend long music festival on the island.

Instigator
02-07-2018, 03:42 PM
Thank you eBay.

https://www.screamandfly.com/webkit-fake-url://08dd731c-74e3-4f4a-890e-a4430a7f368d/imagejpeg

hondatech
02-07-2018, 10:36 PM
Wine's not too bad either! Do they still have a pheasant hunt in the fall ?

Instigator
02-08-2018, 10:28 AM
Wine's not too bad either! Do they still have a pheasant hunt in the fall ?
Their winery is amazing.
We normally bicycle over and take the shuttle back to the boat after ��

There are two annual pheasant hunts.
Also have a pheasant farm on the island.

There is monument on the island for the plane that went through the ice 15 yrs ago.
Ten people and two hunting dogs.

Pelee is a place/trip you have to plan for.
Basically no stores.

My favorite thing is to anchor off Fish Point on the south end, bon fire, shooting starts, exploring by dinghy etc.
Where I go to recharge my batteries.

Scudders Beach Bar and Westview have great bands on weekends.
Bonus points for Scudder Bar being at foot of docks.

hondatech
02-08-2018, 10:40 AM
We were there maybe 10 yrs. ago.....no make it 6 that way I don't feel so old, lol ,toured around on our bikes and ended at the winery. Great day ! Might be time for a return visit !:)

Instigator
02-09-2018, 04:57 PM
The brown truck brought jewelry today.

Dave Strong
02-09-2018, 05:19 PM
The brown truck brought jewelry today.

Now get some motors to go with those. ;)

Dave

Frank Molé
02-09-2018, 05:34 PM
The brown truck brought jewelry today.

what size

magnum2.5
02-09-2018, 07:39 PM
....I drove from melbourne to venice fl today just to pic up a lefty cleaver cause the guy wouldn't ship it...over 400 miles...but now I can use my boat tomorrow ...the things we do cause we love our boats....get errr done...

Instigator
02-10-2018, 11:51 AM
Dave, working on it. Heading to Fla soon and towing an empty utility trailer w/us ;)

Frank, 28" Hoss Hyper Drives.
Hope I can turn them.

Donny, Im w/you brother.
Cant count the times Ive been across your state and back to p/u..........

Instigator
02-10-2018, 12:19 PM
What the boat looked like in '87.

Mines an '86 but identical. I

bill659
02-11-2018, 06:16 PM
Cool project! I picked up a 25’ Convincor at the end of last season. It was laid up as an IO, but never cut for the drive and exhaust. It has a 30” Armstrong bracket. I rigged with 2.4 Mercs and was able to take it out once before the river froze. 399393

Instigator
02-11-2018, 08:03 PM
Cool project! I picked up a 25’ Convincor at the end of last season. It was laid up as an IO, but never cut for the drive and exhaust. It has a 30” Armstrong bracket. I rigged with 2.4 Mercs and was able to take it out once before the river froze. 399393
BAD ASS!

Any more pixs?

How did it run w/30" of set back.

Should be flying w/2.4's on it.

And once again, no matter how hard I try, I'm not the first at anything ��

bill659
02-12-2018, 12:55 PM
I'm having trouble posting the pics. Please send me your email address and I can forward. It ran pretty good with the 2.4s. They need to be raised a bit. It is very trim sensitive with the 30" bracket! I only got about 30 minutes of seat time, but think it should be a keeper.

bill659
02-12-2018, 01:00 PM
399460

bill659
02-12-2018, 02:57 PM
399476

Instigator
02-12-2018, 04:31 PM
Very cool Bill.

SCT
02-12-2018, 05:10 PM
Gary, that CM 25' brochure pix was shot by Sundance Marine in Ft Lauderdale.

magnum2.5
02-12-2018, 05:14 PM
wow 25" MOTORS ON 30" OF SET BACK...MOTORS LOOK REALLY LOW OR IS THAT MY EYEBALLS playing tricks

Instigator
02-12-2018, 05:32 PM
wow 25" MOTORS ON 30" OF SET BACK...MOTORS LOOK REALLY LOW OR IS THAT MY EYEBALLS playing tricks

Looks like 30" motors.
Look how high the motors are on the bracket.

Capt.Insane-o
02-12-2018, 05:48 PM
Nah they are 25

Instigator
02-12-2018, 05:55 PM
Gary, that CM 25' brochure pix was shot by Sundance Marine in Ft Lauderdale.
Was pretty sure that catalog was shot in Fla.

bill659
02-12-2018, 06:31 PM
wow 25" MOTORS ON 30" OF SET BACK...MOTORS LOOK REALLY LOW OR IS THAT MY EYEBALLS playing tricks

They are 25" motors and need to be raised. I am already at the highest mounting holes on the mid. I am thinking of trying the Bobs vertical extension brackets, as I don't want to add much more setback. I think the powerheads would get too swamped if I change to 20" mids.

Instigator
02-12-2018, 06:42 PM
They are 25" motors and need to be raised. I am already at the highest mounting holes on the mid. I am thinking of trying the Bobs vertical extension brackets, as I don't want to add much more setback. I think the powerheads would get too swamped if I change to 20" mids.
Man those look like 30's.

If those are 25's your bracket is too low.

According to my inttial measurements, my bracket will be just bellow the mold lines where the hull turns to the transom which yours looks close to.
Part of the black art to these set ups is where you mount the bracket.

To those telling me to put 20" motors on this boat, look how low Bills 25's are at idle. Now drop them 5".

1954bmw
02-13-2018, 07:49 AM
Do you have to have 30 inches of setback, how do you reinforce the transom, that seems like an awful large amount of leverage back there???? Just askin

Instigator
02-13-2018, 09:33 AM
Do you have to have 30 inches of setback, how do you reinforce the transom, that seems like an awful large amount of leverage back there???? Just askin
Set back can be what ever you decide.

The amount is a crap shoot unless you know someone that successfully did this which I do not.

On this type project, you normally see the bracket being sourced second hand which I'm sure is Bills case.
I did two 24' Sonics and on #1 while doing research I was lucky enough to cross paths w/an Sonic employee who was involved w/testing their race boat back in the day.
He said they tried everything and ended up at 20" which is what I had built.

Sonic #2 cane w/an existing platform that previous owner had retrofitted to replace the two 24" tube style Gil brackets that they all came from the factory with.
That one was 24" and never ran line the first.

These conversions were very common in Fla were done w/used brackets and almost all were wrong IMO.

Instigator
02-13-2018, 10:27 AM
Another issue Bill is fighting is, based on transom angle, the farther away from the transom the motor is, the deeper it will be in water.

Id guess 2" - 5" deeper at 30" back than 20" - 24".

Done correctly, the top surface of bracket should be horizontal when keel of boat is horizontal.
Now put the boat in the water.
It sits at a 5 - 10* angle at rest which agrivates the situation.

1954bmw
02-13-2018, 10:32 AM
Soooo, you do not want the bracket to be perpendicular to the transom, not 90 degrees, slight angle????? Hey, how close are you to Polaris???

JUPITER PULSARE
02-13-2018, 11:16 AM
28' Checkmate 2800SX Outboard, 24" Setback Gill brackets with 6" built in rise, 7/8" thick tie plate, 24" centers, 25" mids..

I plan on selling the Gills as I want to re-rig with a Hyd. Porta Bracket eventually.

My boat has had both 20" mids and 25" mids. The 25" mids were much better and kept the motors from dragging through the water at idle speeds..

bill659
02-13-2018, 12:49 PM
I bought my boat rigged with the 30" bracket. I would have gone with less setback. My bracket does make for a nice platform to stand on to work on the motors, though!!

Instigator
02-13-2018, 07:35 PM
Soooo, you do not want the bracket to be perpendicular to the transom, not 90 degrees, slight angle????? Hey, how close are you to Polaris???

No and 1/2 hr.

buddy stewart
02-13-2018, 07:44 PM
399639
26' Larry smith Scarab has 25'' motors.
Alan Shapiro was the first owner waterheater racing.

Instigator
02-13-2018, 07:57 PM
399639
26' Larry smith Scarab has 25'' motors.
Alan Shapiro was the first owner waterheater racing.
Way cool.

Post up more pixs if you have any.

buddy stewart
02-13-2018, 10:18 PM
399656399657399658
Has not been in the water for a long long time Kevlar hull.
Working on getting it in shape.
Thought my pictures could be of some help with your project.

Instigator
02-15-2018, 12:48 AM
399656399657399658
Has not been in the water for a long long time Kevlar hull.
Working on getting it in shape.
Thought my pictures could be of some help with your project.
Very cool Buddy.
Thanks.

Instigator
02-15-2018, 03:33 PM
Heres how to do it.

Nicer than mine, great price and from the same damn place.

$6K purchase price - $2K for drive and have a donor for 4.

https://longisland.craigslist.org/boa/d/25-ft-checkmate/6495786011.html

hondatech
02-15-2018, 05:02 PM
Maybe I'll buy just so I can be a copycat.......maybe time to get rid of the STV !

hondatech
02-17-2018, 03:58 AM
Priced a little high I think but try your negotiating skills !https://newlondon.craigslist.org/bpo/d/2005-evinrude-225-pair/6484068387.html

Instigator
02-17-2018, 08:13 AM
Priced a little high I think but try your negotiating skills !https://newlondon.craigslist.org/bpo/d/2005-evinrude-225-pair/6484068387.html
Way high but thanks.

Those are Fichts which you almost have to give away.

Chaz
02-17-2018, 05:35 PM
Way high but thanks.

Those are Fichts which you almost have to give away.

Ahh don't knowww "Gee" ... guy say they ain't them OMC's everyone has problems with ... :nonod: They gotta be them good - in's ... :D

{
pair of counter rotating 225 in excellent condition. bombardier motors, not the omc ones with all the problems.}

Spdrcr29
02-17-2018, 05:48 PM
Way high but thanks.

Those are Fichts which you almost have to give away.

Good to know, a friend had asked me about one of those; glad I claimed ignorance. I thought all the bugs were worked out by 2002.

Dave Strong
02-17-2018, 06:12 PM
Way high but thanks.

Those are Fichts which you almost have to give away.

One of those come into work with issues I become suddenly ill. ;)

Dave

Instigator
02-17-2018, 07:42 PM
I've heard of good ones and some positive stories.
Also that they're a PIA to trouble shoot.

I think a lot depend on owner, oil, octane, maint/care.

There is a pair of '2000 225's on Fla Craig's for $2800.

Dave Strong
02-17-2018, 07:49 PM
I've heard of good ones and some positive stories.
Also that they're a PIA to trouble shoot.

I think a lot depend on owner, oil, octane, maint/care.

There is a pair of '2000 225's on Fla Craig's for $2800.

Just stay away Buddy or you will be sad. Although if you buy a pair and have issues that should be all needed to bring you over to the black side. ;):D

Dave :)

Instigator
02-17-2018, 07:59 PM
Just stay away Buddy or you will be sad. Although if you buy a pair and have issues that should be all needed to bring you over to the black side. ;):D

Dave :)
No worries. All I do w/them us strip the crap off and build hot rods out of them.

Black side ???
Not that smart.

vnemous
02-17-2018, 08:10 PM
Just stay away Buddy or you will be sad. Although if you buy a pair and have issues that should be all needed to bring you over to the black side. ;):D

Dave :)

The FICHT is the motor that bankrupted OMC:D

Chaz
02-17-2018, 08:34 PM
The FICHT is the motor that bankrupted OMC:D

That there was just mean .... :o

I'm glad you posted here ... cuz all I been thinkin about is that white thing you found under the cardboard box last week ...... :eek: :leaving:

Instigator
02-17-2018, 08:35 PM
The FICHT is the motor that bankrupted OMC:D
Which came first, chicken or the egg??

Company was already on life support and the EPA said you shall have a green motor or no motor.

Barely paying bills then being forced to invest in R&D to survive??
Tic, toc, tic, toc.

Cant imagine many behind the scenes expecting success.

Interestingly the early reports were good.
The auto mfgrs were rumored to having running prototypes w/DI powerheads under the hood.

OMCs and Merc.

vnemous
02-17-2018, 09:10 PM
That there was just mean .... :o

I'm glad you posted here ... cuz all I been thinkin about is that white thing you found under the cardboard box last week ...... :eek: :leaving:

Some one needed to ask about it:D If it was a FICHT I would have thrown up:D

Chaz
02-17-2018, 10:08 PM
Some one needed to ask about it:D If it was a FICHT I would have thrown up:D

I don't know nuttin about them things . All I know is that it was brand new / old / the old man died / a couple more next building or three over / not for sale / but the useless kids and probate court owns em ... I quit listening and started lobbying for dinner plans .... :D

vnemous
02-18-2018, 07:38 AM
I was more interested int the black x's in their original boxs, the ultimate happy meal:D

Mitchie
02-24-2018, 12:48 PM
I commented on the other site... But its great to see you back doing the cuddy thing. Your old threads were a big inspiration to me, and my wife and I have been "cottaging" On our Superboat for years now. Instead of looking for speed every off season.... I now look for more storage! HAHAHA!
http://i64.tinypic.com/wbc3ea.jpg

Instigator
02-24-2018, 03:34 PM
Wow.

For me,it just doesn't get any better than that.
Thank you sir.

Ive said it before, I'm 58 yrs old and have boated all my life and that style style of boating is by far, my favorite.

Just met a local guy redoing a near identical 28' Checkmate that is of like mind.

The dinghy thing is confusing him though. We only spoke a bit but that is the simplest part of the equation once you figure it out.

Walmart sells a 2 person inflatable for for $40 w/pump.
Buy one.
Cheap oars (fine if ur careful) are another $20.

Throw that pump in the trash and buy a good one for $20.
Way faster and stronger.

While still in Walmart, buy a good (Walmart good) duffle bag big enough for dinghy,oars and pump.
Another $20.

Now everything is contained and you spent $100.
If you can make space for the bag, you have room for the dinghy.

As a benefit, if you play in big water in a small boat, there is your safety valve.
Used to tell the Mrs, just make sure that bag makes it over the side w/us.
It will float and you can take forever inflating it if need be then paddle to shore safe and sound.

Another mandatory cuddy item is a porta potty.
Told same guy, best $50 I ever spent.
My wife loves the damn thing.
Been through several.


I commented on the other site... But its great to see you back doing the cuddy thing. Your old threads were a big inspiration to me, and my wife and I have been "cottaging" On our Superboat for years now. Instead of looking for speed every off season.... I now look for more storage! HAHAHA!
http://i64.tinypic.com/wbc3ea.jpg

FMP
02-24-2018, 04:59 PM
Ignore the nice scenery it's only a mirage, nothing to see here, keep moving right along.

Mitchie
02-26-2018, 10:12 AM
My wife would prefer your Mainship.... But I like the fact that I can cover big miles in short time. That Checkmate looks pretty comfy.

Instigator
02-26-2018, 11:04 AM
My wife would prefer your Mainship.... But I like the fact that I can cover big miles in short time. That Checkmate looks pretty comfy.
One of the biggest differences is the ride/sensation.

The Mainship goes where u point it w/0 drama.
Also 0 excitement, wind in your hair etc.

And the big miles in short time.
If were on the Mainship and storm pops up, you go through it.

A fast boat you out run it or avert course.
I hate the feeling of knowing you can't out run it.

That was one of my biggest tricks in doing Lake Erie in our small boats.

Its shallow enough that it's almost entirely controlled by wind and sky.
If you're aware of what the sky is doing, you'll be safe.

FMP
02-26-2018, 11:19 AM
Before todays instant weather radar you had to watch the sky , winds more closely. Those afternoon t storms can blow up out of nothing in less than half an hour and turn things ugly. Twenty minutes away it's sunny and beautiful except for the thunder off in the distance.

Mitchie
02-26-2018, 11:42 AM
Someday I will submit and get something like the big cruiser... But I will have an inline seating Critchfield on Davits! For now, the old 24x7 gets me too some quiet bays for beer drinking weekends. Hopefully this summer will be better than the last. We have the cheapo dinghy as well, or we beach. I look forward to seeing pictures of your new adventures. Not to hijack but you might appreciate my making the best of the splashwell. We got sick of the stupid fold up bag chairs, and started going with the zero gravity chairs. But they take up sooooo much room and are heavy. I have a good friend with a machine shop and some welding skills... So these got whipped up for this season!
http://i68.tinypic.com/24n4jr8.jpg
http://i65.tinypic.com/2icaa8h.jpg

Instigator
02-26-2018, 11:48 AM
Someday I will submit and get something like the big cruiser... But I will have an inline seating Critchfield on Davits! For now, the old 24x7 gets me too some quiet bays for beer drinking weekends. Hopefully this summer will be better than the last. We have the cheapo dinghy as well, or we beach. I look forward to seeing pictures of your new adventures. Not to hijack but you might appreciate my making the best of the splashwell. We got sick of the stupid fold up bag chairs, and started going with the zero gravity chairs. But they take up sooooo much room and are heavy. I have a good friend with a machine shop and some welding skills... So these got whipped up for this season!
http://i68.tinypic.com/24n4jr8.jpg
http://i65.tinypic.com/2icaa8h.jpg
Nicely done!

We just carry the cheapie fold up chairs in bags.
Had a way cool lil fold up canvas table too until my bro in law used it for a foot stool.
Had built in drink holders too.

Great for keeping stuff out of the sand.

We carried our fold up Dahon bikes strapped to the bow tails of our old 22' Formula.

89LASER
03-09-2018, 09:43 AM
https://longisland.craigslist.org/boa/d/2005-twin-175hp-outboards/6514336523.html
A couple of engines on Long Island for you if your interested in 175 hp's

89LASER
03-09-2018, 06:16 PM
https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/boa/d/94-oceans-runners/6518706645.html

Capt.Insane-o
03-09-2018, 09:09 PM
WTF is it with you guys and salt water scrap.

FMP
03-09-2018, 09:21 PM
Lol

Dave Strong
03-09-2018, 09:24 PM
Lmao

Capt.Insane-o
03-10-2018, 01:43 AM
Gary you should call marinas around algonac, St Clair shores and downriver/Detroit. Seems whenever I go to aomci meets there are take off warshing machines on racks outside. Give the guys at Lockemans hardware a call.

Spdrcr29
03-10-2018, 08:32 AM
Gary you should call marinas around algonac, St Clair shores and downriver/Detroit. Seems whenever I go to aomci meets there are take off warshing machines on racks outside. Give the guys at Lockemans hardware a call.

Great place. Stopped in there when I was shopping. Very knowledgeable staff, still feels like the old days in there, as opposed to a sales floor. Website attached.

http://www.lockemans.com/

Dave S
03-10-2018, 03:55 PM
Long Island salt water crap...... not so. The water is not as salty as other places. I know cause I lived up there when young. All the sewer plants leak in the out flow pipes neutralizing the salt. And the inlets have sand bars that only flow one way to keep out the salt water. And the FACT that Li has more beer drinkers in a small location also neutralizing the salt.........The 225s look like a ok deal... offer $2000.

Instigator
03-10-2018, 08:32 PM
Thx for the leads.
Will follow up once home and on my feet.

On the salt water crap, if I can put eyes and hands in it, pre-sale, I'm fine.

Had to sets of salt motors in the Fla Sonic and you could in no way tell they'd been in salt.
The ones on the boat when I sold it, came from Fla parts motors I collected for the project.

Sight un-seen, not.

Instigator
03-10-2018, 08:57 PM
https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/boa/d/94-oceans-runners/6518706645.html
Ur gettin close.

'94's would have old style harness (big red plug), **** carbs (I have good/late eras ready/waiting), and old style air box w/a bazillion bolts and bases behind carbs.
New style remove (complete) w/2 thumb screws.

I think '96 was new harness/airbox and best carbs in '98 and up.

Lockemans site has a very clean (appearing) '97 on their site.

Ive got a tentative deal on a pair of virgin '98 250's if I can get the seller off his ass and dig them out of his barn ��

Dave Strong
03-10-2018, 09:25 PM
Good luck with the "barn find" spring is a coming.;)

Dave:)

FMP
03-10-2018, 09:27 PM
You check around up north this way ?

Capt.Insane-o
03-11-2018, 04:30 AM
ANYHOO......carry on:D

CUDA
03-11-2018, 06:29 AM
YOU really come up with strange analogy's

what was that other day, dog dick pink

Capt.Insane-o
03-11-2018, 09:13 AM
Dog wiener pink... that's what we call sun baked out red boats that make their way up here. I think you guys call it pastel down there ;)

Dave Strong
03-11-2018, 11:20 AM
Lmao

magnum2.5
03-11-2018, 12:23 PM
...pair of 225 1998 oceanrunners just popped up on ORLANDO craigslist $1200 they run...check it out buddy...

Instigator
03-11-2018, 12:40 PM
...pair of 225 1998 (tel:225 1998) oceanrunners just popped up on ORLANDO craigslist $1200 they run...check it out buddy...
Of course you did.
Just got back to Ohio an hr ago ��

Thx Donnie

1954bmw
05-09-2018, 02:28 PM
Hey Gary, watcha been up to, haven't heard anything lately??? Working on the shop now that summer is here, any luck on the engine hunt, did your pup pay you back after he used up all your money??

Instigator
05-09-2018, 04:24 PM
Hey Gary, watcha been up to, haven't heard anything lately??? Working on the shop now that summer is here, any luck on the engine hunt, did your pup pay you back after he used up all your money??

Shop is almost done. Another day of wiring then the crew can insulate and panel interior.

Pup is healing nicely but refuses to get a job to pay us back.

Motor source is back to plan A.
220 hr 250 hp OMCs that I used to own.

Dave Strong
05-09-2018, 05:29 PM
Shop is almost done. Another day of wiring then the crew can insulate and panel interior.

Pup is healing nicely but refuses to get a job to pay us back.

Mine still owes me $5,500 for his knee surgery, I gave up it's been 5yrs. ;)

Dave

FUJIMO
05-09-2018, 06:23 PM
Nice barn. What type heating?

1954bmw
05-10-2018, 08:35 AM
Man, don't get the heating question going, last time he had a huge thread going with about half a dozen different options..... Looks great, you been busy.

wickedwitthestix
05-10-2018, 08:55 AM
gunna b a fun boat love vee bottoms just feels safer in big water to me. haveing pleanty of hrs in bees along w cats a nice v in the 80s is the sweet spot for me pending power ofcourse never thought of 225 promaxes lighter should get similar speed. stay on course though if u have something different set in mind

MODVP22
05-10-2018, 12:02 PM
Shop is almost done. Another day of wiring then the crew can insulate and panel interior.

Pup is healing nicely but refuses to get a job to pay us back.

Motor source is back to plan A.
220 hr 250 hp OMCs that I used to own.

garage envy

Instigator
07-02-2018, 10:23 AM
Finally got some me time to start the demo.

First thing I was reminded is, how much I hate I/Os!
Ugh

Another project that I watch the intended donor part sale items disappear in front of my eyes.
Check the carb squirter. Corrosion from the humid salt air in its previous life.

Not sure which part of sun lounge is worse, the giant hole I get to patch or that ugly ass sticker that has to come off ��
Will be way happier when it is down to bare hull.

1954bmw
07-02-2018, 10:55 AM
WTF happened to that carb, you think all of that is from humidity??? Rain from the hole in the sun lounge????

Capt.Insane-o
07-02-2018, 04:46 PM
salt water

HydroSkreamin
07-02-2018, 05:54 PM
Not sure which part of sun lounge is worse, the giant hole I get to patch or that ugly ass sticker that has to come off ��

Whaddya got against WIX Filters?:D

Good luck on your project, I'm following diligently...

Capt.Insane-o
07-02-2018, 06:29 PM
Looks like it's about time for a http://hhscott.com/evinrude/images/DCP_0126.JPG

Dave Strong
07-02-2018, 06:32 PM
Looks like it's about time for a http://hhscott.com/evinrude/images/DCP_0126.JPG

Haha, thought those were all gone by now.

Dave

Capt.Insane-o
07-05-2018, 09:12 PM
411931

I drive by this every day by my house. Poor thing needs a rescue

Instigator
07-08-2018, 06:35 PM
Well I got a half a day to myself in the shop today.

Was shocked to discover my cherry picker had enough lift to get the motor out of the boat.
Boat was trapped in by dead golf cart which is a PIA to push so I used it as an anchor hooked a come along to it and winched the boat out from under the motor.

Previous owner was correct in that the car motor dropped a valve as shown. I didn't know the oil pan had a gallon and half of water in it.
So resale value of car parts crap keeps flying out the window.

The good is, I'm almost to my blank canvas to start the project.

FMP
07-08-2018, 09:12 PM
How much trouble to drop an LS in ? In the event you had a big HP one.

nitro_rat
07-08-2018, 09:49 PM
There are some differences in the flywheel stuff from standard Chevy V8 stuff. I don’t know all the details but there are some funky bolts on some models. Marine conversion stuff is available though, I’m sure there’s somebody out there that knows specifics.

FMP
07-08-2018, 10:25 PM
Heck , twin LS

1954bmw
07-09-2018, 11:28 AM
Corey331 has a thread on the checkmate website putting a LS into a 253 Checkmate, all the nuts and bolts are listed

Dave Strong
07-09-2018, 11:33 AM
Gary is an outboard guy.;):)

Dave

Instigator
07-09-2018, 11:56 AM
Gary is an outboard guy.;):)

Dave
Guess they're not reading the title.

Instigator
07-09-2018, 01:20 PM
Here's a pretty sight.

Dave Strong
07-09-2018, 02:30 PM
Here's a pretty sight.

At least they didn't use 5200 on that.;)

Dave

Instigator
07-09-2018, 03:32 PM
At least they didn't use 5200 on that.;)

Dave
Great point and sooooo true.

Boat is '86 and would guess still factory mounting which would be pre 5200 ��

Instigator
07-11-2018, 02:36 PM
Better off than I was afraid of.

1/4" stroker crank is perfect

H beam rods will clean up nice.

block/bores way better than expected. Haven't clean the bores out yet but definately serviceable.

HP 500 heads (huge ports!) need two valves.

Aluminum roller rockets are perfect.

Merlin intake is perfect.

May yield enough at resale to buy my motors back from Paul ��

FMP
07-11-2018, 02:59 PM
Title, just thinking about the hp a LS could do vs the twins.
Probably a pile more $ for 600+hp ?

Instigator
07-11-2018, 04:46 PM
Title, just thinking about the hp a LS could do vs the twins.
Probably a pile more $ for 600+hp ?
Outboards only.

Way more functional boat for what we do.
With I/O, bring two duffle bags for weekend and you're out of storage space.

With O/B conversion, storage space for:

two folding bicycles
inflatable dinghy
beach chairs
grill
beach table

etc, etc....

For a real, functional, weekender boat, only one works.

I know of which I speak ��

FMP
07-11-2018, 04:59 PM
Oh yeah going to be a good setup, I read all those posts.

Instigator
07-11-2018, 05:45 PM
Oh yeah going to be a good setup, I read all those posts.
Totally different driving experience too.

With I/O think, heavy O/B ski boat.

With twin O/Bs think, Allison and butt puckered.

Two totally different rides.
Only one of them acceptable to me.

1954bmw
07-12-2018, 07:28 AM
You like your butt puckered????? Damn, anyway, real question, do you have the mounting brackets purchased already??? Good luck

Spdrcr29
07-12-2018, 07:46 AM
Outboards only.

Way more functional boat for what we do.
With I/O, bring two duffle bags for weekend and you're out of storage space.

With O/B conversion, storage space for:

two folding bicycles
inflatable dinghy
beach chairs
grill
beach table

etc, etc....

For a real, functional, weekender boat, only one works.

I know of which I speak ��

Plus, if you get into a disagreement with the wife on a weekend trip, you can sleep under the sun pad in a pinch! It’s the boat equivalent of the couch! Lol

Instigator
07-12-2018, 09:53 AM
You like your butt puckered????? Damn, anyway, real question, do you have the mounting brackets purchased already??? Good luck
No

Going to draw it up and have a local fab shop build it for me.

FMP
07-12-2018, 12:10 PM
You figure to tie it forward to the stringers?

Instigator
07-12-2018, 01:59 PM
You figure to tie it forward to the stringers?
Yep

knees from transom to stringers

depending on fab shops quote I may build a bracket out of glass.

Instigator
08-22-2018, 09:51 AM
Got some me time this morning so I did some more demoing.

For the no wood in boat crowd check the orig I/O motor mount lag holes in the motor beds.
Keep in mind all this was covered so you couldn't see any of it.

At some point (probably when they got serious on power) a previous owner decided
to through bolt the motor mounts, a good thing.
I tried to remove the current mount and discovered they had nuts on back side of stringer, under floor not lagged like I hoped.
I pulled up the rubber floor beside the motor/bilge and found thin stainless plates just laying over access holes they cut to install those nuts!

They dug out the foam, laid the plates over the holes and glued the floor over them!
This is also a good argument to the Checkmate haters too.
As seen in the pixs, the holes were full of water, and they didn't even fill the orig lag holes which were also full of water!

Zero evidence of rot anywhere!!

I know many have not been this lucky and I was prepared for the worst.

Think Ill play the lottery at lunch ��

XstreamVking
08-22-2018, 10:50 AM
All the motor mounts I have built (a bunch) were laminated pieces of marine plywood built up and shaped. Then glassed over. The good quality ply was able to withstand the water and not rot.

baja200merk
08-22-2018, 12:11 PM
Lucky ��

I have a 38 Eliminator Eagle o4 it was never sealed around the transom assemblies transom was rotten as hell. The last 6” of the outside stringers were not glasses to the transom Just had gel cote over bare wood. So was the cardboard cored cockpit liner $400k boat built like crap. It’s all coosa now and back together.

Capt.Insane-o
08-22-2018, 12:52 PM
I had a 33 in that is the same way. Guy wants to do 6's and 860s but he's rebuilding the boat instead

Sutphil
08-22-2018, 02:24 PM
Lucky ��

I have a 38 Eliminator Eagle o4 it was never sealed around the transom assemblies transom was rotten as hell. The last 6” of the outside stringers were not glasses to the transom Just had gel cote over bare wood. So was the cardboard cored cockpit liner $400k boat built like crap. It’s all coosa now and back together.

Yikes!

Cary 29
08-23-2018, 07:01 PM
Gary, it's Cary... Spoke to you about the outboards a few years ago. I'm going back to them again... Going to rerig my boat again. Hoping to get the new 500plus Merc... 2019 they say.. I'll try to call you if your number is the same. I know you moved from FL. I had a good friend with that same Checkmate, he loved it. Good ride and fast. God bless

Instigator
09-25-2018, 11:44 AM
Got a bit of me time and started the pod for my Controls.
Ill wrap it in glass next.

Cary 29
09-25-2018, 01:07 PM
Looks great Gary. Nice work....

Capt.Insane-o
09-25-2018, 07:40 PM
That's a pretty small beer fridge.

Instigator
09-26-2018, 06:33 AM
That's a pretty small beer fridge.
I know.
Cant keep the damn thing stocked.

Capt.Insane-o
09-26-2018, 11:42 AM
The 28 around the corner for my house sits again for another season. I think it has 350 mag/bravos in it which would be a nice package. I should knock on the door but I already have a boating problem

FMP
09-26-2018, 11:56 AM
The competition
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-powerboat-motorboat/st-catharines/1989-baja-25-force/1384461676?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

99fxst99
09-26-2018, 12:42 PM
Here is how I did my Seebold 25 conversion that went from single BBC to twin OB. I never saw any indication of movement the next 6 years I ran it, and I did not baby it.
Centerline of the OBs was about an inch off the stringer C/L but it didn't seem to matter.

Instigator
09-26-2018, 04:31 PM
The competition
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-powerboat-motorboat/st-catharines/1989-baja-25-force/1384461676?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
Bajas did interior lay outs better than Checkmate but nothing else.
Not even close.
I really like their 235 Force from the same era.
Motors on that boat are early/mid '80's and near worthless.

Instigator
09-26-2018, 04:34 PM
Here is how I did my Seebold 25 conversion that went from single BBC to twin OB. I never saw any indication of movement the next 6 years I ran it, and I did not baby it.
Centerline of the OBs was about an inch off the stringer C/L but it didn't seem to matter.
Nice!

I will do glass.
Because I like doing it and looks factory when done.

Instigator
09-26-2018, 04:41 PM
The 28 around the corner for my house sits again for another season. I think it has 350 mag/bravos in it which would be a nice package. I should knock on the door but I already have a boating problem
I refuse to allow common sense to interfere w/my boat buying decisions.

That boat w/twin small blocks would be a nice boat.

FMP
09-26-2018, 04:58 PM
Bajas did interior lay outs better than Checkmate but nothing else.
Not even close.
I really like their 235 Force from the same era.
Motors on that boat are early/mid '80's and near worthless.

Probably why it's for sale.

99fxst99
09-27-2018, 08:34 AM
Nice!

I will do glass.
Because I like doing it and looks factory when done.
Got it. I’m a better fabricator than laminator, hence the aluminum :-)

Instigator
10-03-2018, 09:04 AM
Guess what I'm working on during my me time ��

Took my drawings to the fab shop yesterday but they're not sure they can cut 1/2" for the motorboard.

Called two shops yesterday w/brackets on e-bay.
One in Miami that went to a blind e-mail that called me right back after verifying I wasn't a bill collector?
Theyre 8 wks out.

Second one in Alabama that also did not answer phone and had no voice mail.

Dealt w/these people enough to know to keep your hand on your wallet.

If local shop can't do it, I'll probably build one from glass.

buddy stewart
10-03-2018, 09:57 AM
Have you looked for a used bracket Stainless marine makes some nice ones.

Instigator
10-03-2018, 10:45 AM
Have you looked for a used bracket Stainless marine makes some nice ones.
Yep

Near impossible to find what I need for setback, transom angles etc.

Everything is way too big.

1954bmw
10-03-2018, 10:50 AM
U using sheet aluminum, bolt or weld, have you considered tubing of some sort???

Dave Strong
10-03-2018, 11:05 AM
Yep

Near impossible to find what I need for setback, transom angles etc.

Everything is way too big.

When I did the bracket for my Cougar local shop cut all my 5/8 and squared it all in a mill. Owner needed his truck fixed so it was a trade for labor. ;)

Dave

Instigator
10-03-2018, 06:20 PM
U using sheet aluminum, bolt or weld, have you considered tubing of some sort???
Going to look something like this glass one I restored for my second Sonic.
On my first Sonic I had an aluminum one built that looked identical to this. First 3 pixs are glass, last one is aluminum.

A major feature to this style of bracket beyond additional flotation is the swim platform portion.

This is what it looks like.
We all on the same page now?

Cary 29
10-03-2018, 06:31 PM
Looks good Gary. Stainless Marine is shipping mine out tomorrow.

Dave Strong
10-03-2018, 06:31 PM
That's a whole lot of aluminum, do the glass much lighter.

Dave

Capt.Insane-o
10-03-2018, 10:31 PM
I'll pm you in the morning of a place here that can water jet you in stainless or aluminum. Even building out of composite glass brackets are heavier and sag.

Instigator
10-04-2018, 06:04 AM
I'll pm you in the morning of a place here that can water jet you in stainless or aluminum. Even building out of composite glass brackets are heavier and sag.
I don't remember weighing the glass one (balsa core) but I'd guess it was heavier than the aluminum which I believe was 150 when I did weigh it.

The one shop that did answer the phone guessed 200 lbs.

I do prefer aluminum.

The main guy at local shop was out the day I was there so still hoping they can buid it.

Cary 29
10-04-2018, 06:56 AM
Most every good bracket on the market is aluminum powder coated...

Instigator
10-04-2018, 08:24 AM
Most every good bracket on the market is aluminum powder coated...
Agreed.

There are people in Fla building them from glass, as are some hull mfgs.
Helps if there's compound curves on transom etc.

My second Sonic came w/a glass one.

I believe the old Whaler Temptation O/Bs were glass brackets as well.

powerabout
10-04-2018, 11:44 AM
Perhaps get some carbon foam core panels ( or maybe plain foam or single side laminated) and cut them up and bond it together to the shape you want
To prevent crush at the bolt holes you might need to core it and fill with epoxy
Then take it to a carbon shop to laminate and bag it once you have it built.
Do internal flange so you can hide the bolts and still have it adjustable that will mean inspection hatch in it or access from the old I/O hole

Capt.Insane-o
10-04-2018, 01:17 PM
Helps if flanged stainless bushings are laminated into the motor board too for the mounting holes

Instigator
10-04-2018, 05:20 PM
Local shop responded and are on it.

Cary 29
10-04-2018, 06:01 PM
Good for you Gary.

buddy stewart
10-05-2018, 05:09 PM
Are you doing 20'' motors what's your offset from the transom 16 or something.

Instigator
10-05-2018, 06:05 PM
Are you doing 20'' motors what's your offset from the transom 16 or something.
25" motors, 20" setback.

Cary 29
10-05-2018, 06:20 PM
Too funny Gary, I'm doing 20" motors with a 25" setback...

Cary 29
10-05-2018, 06:22 PM
You think that setback is ok for me being the boat is 30'?

Instigator
10-05-2018, 06:38 PM
You think that setback is ok for me being the boat is 30'?
If the bracket is already being built, I'm sure it's fine.

If not, I'd probably go 30"+.
Think of C. Of G.
Youre loosing a big block and drive (stock configuration) and net is about 800 lbs less. Based on 550 lbs per.

Instigator
10-05-2018, 07:54 PM
The Mrs just found this pic of the 2nd Sonic right after I got it back in the water. Notice no pad for (newly built) sun lounge, orig upholster etc.

Funny part is..., those motors are the ones I sold Paul, that I just bought back for the Convincor.

Cary 29
10-05-2018, 08:06 PM
Nice picture Gary, looks great. Those motors will be Awesome on the Checkmate.

Instigator
10-06-2018, 12:07 PM
No turning back now 😳

FUJIMO
10-06-2018, 03:26 PM
https://www.screamandfly.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=420019&d=1538787344

buddy stewart
10-07-2018, 09:41 PM
Had a guy tell me with the 25'' motors the power heads are like barn doors being so high up.

JUPITER PULSARE
10-07-2018, 10:54 PM
Had a guy tell me with the 25'' motors the power heads are like barn doors being so high up.

Nope, they run fine with 25” mids and the extra height keeps the powerheads from dragging through the water at idle speeds:

Instigator
10-08-2018, 06:36 AM
Had a guy tell me with the 25'' motors the power heads are like barn doors being so high up.
I've done it both ways and my strong preference are 25's and experienced zero negatives.

buddy stewart
10-08-2018, 01:27 PM
I've done it both ways and my strong preference are 25's and experienced zero negatives.

That's good to know the boat I have has 14'' setback 25" motors and looks like 20" motors would work with a deferent bracket.
I have a Stainless marine bracket I'm going to sell 26" setback it's for 25" motors. Little to wide for my boat.

Instigator
10-09-2018, 11:04 AM
That's good to know the boat I have has 14'' setback 25" motors and looks like 20" motors would work with a deferent bracket.
I have a Stainless marine bracket I'm going to sell 26" setback it's for 25" motors. Little to wide for my boat.
What is your hull??

buddy stewart
10-09-2018, 06:55 PM
1986 Scarab LS 26' sit down boat. 25'' inch motors in the picture. I don't see 20" motors being a problem on this boat. It's still early in the project. https://www.screamandfly.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=399639&d=1518568255&thumb=1 (https://www.screamandfly.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=399639&d=1518568255)

AZMIDLYF
10-09-2018, 07:39 PM
How did the 26 Scarab run with the twins?

buddy stewart
10-10-2018, 10:54 AM
No idea on speed. Project boat it did come with a pair of 26 pitch props and one good 2.4 and one bad 2.5.Sold my pain in the ass inboard boat for this outboard boat.I like the CM project instigator is doing. Going to be a nice deal.

Instigator
10-20-2018, 07:04 AM
Had some me time and tore the boat up some more.

Some observations:

1. There is 10" of foam forward of the fuel tank. This equates to approx 10 more gls of fuel.
I was considering making this a step down to cabin, aiding entry but I dont like the shift in weight that moving the tank back would create and, at this point the additional fuel capacity is more important to me.

2. For the Checkmate haters, the motor beds came out intact, rock solid and bone dry.
And they're 32 yrs old!

3. Floor over tank was recently replaced and was reattached to stringers w/2" pan head screws and NO sealer on them. Bottom of that section of floor already has evidence of water intrusion, so w/the screws driven into the top of the stringers how long until they rot?
When they do, is it the wood/Checkmates fault ;)

4. I had to remove to the cabin bulkheads to access forward portion of floor for removal.
No idea what will go back in but it wont be these.

5. One huge engineering challenge for this project is adding an opening hatch over the cabin doors (as the 24' Sonics had) which will require complete removal of helm/dash area.
Still pondering that one.

Motors are bought and paid for pending an inspection by Paul. Assuming that passes, probably road trip to La. for motor p/u in Nov.

Plan to finish tank removal today. It has severe corrosion on top so I'll have to determine if can be expanded safely or needs replaced.
Hopefully there are no hidden (rot) surprises bellow it. Top of stringers tap solid.

Instigator
10-20-2018, 07:13 AM
A video for the haters :)

From the masters of making Checkmates stupid fast, father and son Kunkel.
They're shooting for 120.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quxBcrq3e2I&app=desktop

Euroski
10-20-2018, 08:11 AM
A video for the haters :)

From the masters of making Checkmates stupid fast, father and son Kunkel.
They're shooting for 120.




From conversation they said it was about 1400hp!
I recently purchased a Convinvor 270 w/ 496-MAG-HO with 170hrs. SPRING here yet!

FMP
10-20-2018, 08:29 AM
Love the walk under through br Convincor with the side room head.
Awesome video, saw another older video with a fly by in the mid 90s , another Convincor.

NICE PAIR
10-20-2018, 09:20 AM
A video for the haters :)

From the masters of making Checkmates stupid fast, father and son Kunkel.
They're shooting for 120.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quxBcrq3e2I&app=desktop

421328"Nice"

Instigator
10-20-2018, 02:36 PM
Tank is out and is toast due to corrosion.
Top looks like the corrosion is from bolster mount screws being too long and hitting tank and causing galvanic corrosion.

Stringers look good so far.

AZMIDLYF
10-20-2018, 07:35 PM
I would think any weight forward would be beneficial being that CG is shifting...but the fuel will not be static.

Funny about the video..I had just seen a video on that very Checkmate the other day:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqTw_EJFPZU&t=2s

Thing accelerates like a rocket!

Instigator
11-08-2018, 09:53 AM
Stringers look good, getting ready to have a 95 gl tank built to replace the factory 67 gl.

Just ordered two new 4" Atlas jack plates.

Being the skin flint I am, Im going to build my bracket from glass and save the $3K Im being quoted for a new one.

Soon as Pauls fields dry out enough for him to ck my motors, Ill figure out delivery.
Going south in a couple wks but Paul hasnt gotten to them yet.

Getting ready to cut out helm/dash.

Instigator
11-10-2018, 09:19 AM
Cheryl’s birthday presents 😉

Greg G
11-10-2018, 09:36 AM
Man that Atlas jack plate looks like it is HD and very well built. Not familiar with Atlas.

mrichartz
11-10-2018, 09:50 AM
Those are Nice! Not cheap either!

Instigator
11-10-2018, 10:12 AM
None of them are cheap any more.
I like that they are self contained. No pumps in boat or through hill hoses.

Id love a thread on your boat.
I remember seeing a picture once but I think you owe it a history thread.

These are my favorite twin o/b boats.
W/some changes (I’m making) they can be killer weekenders.


Those are Nice! Not cheap either!

mrichartz
11-10-2018, 11:08 AM
Thread on boat, will start one have to lay it out so i dont ramble
Ive been on here how long and never uploaded more than a couple pics of the whole boat mostly the my new powerheads
like i said in DM ive had it for about 15 years and always someting to do to it. If it was ever finished not sure what id do.

Is your interior newer/redone front seats kind of look like what i had(got rid of them because of weight) but even just looking at the pics they look lighter and more comfortable..Mine weighted over 150 lbs a piece total, 11 years ago and still looking for permanent seats

Yeah none are cheap even going with the cmc high speed and looking for awhile still cost almost $700 a piece those atlas are $$
and yes really like the self contained dont need anymore pumps or hoses/wires

Oh any pics of the cabin/interior mine actually still had the (herculan fabric ..wool) not sure thats right but that was one of the first things out was like fricken sand paper


None of them are cheap any more.
I like that they are self contained. No pumps in boat or through hill hoses.

Id love a thread on your boat.
I remember seeing a picture once but I think you owe it a history thread.

These are my favorite twin o/b boats.
W/some changes (I’m making) they can be killer weekenders.

CUDA
11-10-2018, 11:47 AM
You will need a bigger gas tank with those motors:D

1954bmw
11-10-2018, 11:55 AM
You gave her a porta-pot for her birthday, what a romantic????????????

FMP
11-10-2018, 12:57 PM
Watch out for flying frying pans

hondatech
11-10-2018, 01:28 PM
Cheryl’s birthday presents 
Cheryl’s such a “Lucky Girl”. Happy birthday!

mrichartz
11-14-2018, 07:46 PM
Ok here's a couple of older pics mine didn't really change much working on getting pics and laid out
423306
423307
423326

Is that the original interior in yours
Definitely like the idea of having a trunk for the weekend camping setup[

Instigator
11-17-2018, 09:02 AM
Love it!
Should be a rocket w/the new motors.

Post your story on your boat.
Doesnt need to be a book. Just pixs w/description, Ideally starting at beginning.


Ok here's a couple of older pics mine didn't really change much working on getting pics and laid out
423306
423307
423326

Is that the original interior in yours
Definitely like the idea of having a trunk for the weekend camping setup[

Instigator
11-17-2018, 09:05 AM
New tank is on order and due next wk.

After much math and experimenting, Ive decided on a 95 gallon (their math says 93) tank to replace the OEM 67 gal tank.

Basically, it will run from cabin bulkhead to within a foot of the transom!
I wanted a true 100 gls but that wouldnt have left me w/enough room in the bilge for the bilge pump.

Dont like carrying 586 lbs of fuel but I do like having access to 93/95 gls.

Most of prep work is done in preparation for the tank.

Today I plan to lay out the transom knees and install them before I begin construction of the motor bracket.

The good is, stringers are solid and most of the **** work is done!

Plan is to install tank, fill it, build/mount bracket, mock up motors and head to the ramp to see how it floats.
Ideally do test floats w/tank empty and full to see how much weight Ill need to move where.

mrichartz
11-17-2018, 09:47 AM
Love it!
Should be a rocket w/the new motors.

Post your story on your boat.
Doesnt need to be a book. Just pixs w/description, Ideally starting at beginning.

Yeah I'm just going to post pics and what's changed a handful at a time have the first ones of when I picked it up.posting today.Justing to get some pics in right order 15 years and Google decided to take time stamp off and they are all out of order..just got over a ft of snow so it's computer boating for now

Here you go just started it https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?340331-15-years-ago-My-1984-25-Convincor-OB-Twin-OMC-Evinrude&p=3092139#post3092139

Instigator
11-17-2018, 02:30 PM
It has to look worse before it looks better.

Going to build a cross bar for on top of transom which meant cutting away part of I/O exhaust opening. They get filled anyway as I dont want this to look like a red neck I/O project when done.
I will tie the knees in with that cross bar.

I dont want anything moving.

5 1/2" Pad looks about right :thumbsup:

mrichartz
11-17-2018, 02:48 PM
It has to look worse before it looks better.

Going to build a cross bar for on top of transom which meant cutting away part of I/O exhaust opening. They get filled anyway as I dont want this to look like a red neck I/O project when done.
I will tie the knees in with that cross bar.

I dont want anything moving.

5 1/2" Pad looks about right :thumbsup:

Was just going to ask about the pad! How far forward?
Thinking with the new motors might be the next thing...I'll wait till you do yours:D

1954bmw
11-18-2018, 07:36 AM
Holy s__t, how are you going to put a pad on this, you plan on flipping/rolling it over???? And just to be a dick, the print for your tank says 92 gallons....

Greg G
11-18-2018, 07:41 AM
.................5 1/2" Pad looks about right ...........

Will it be a Delta pad? Where are you coming up with 5 1/2" ?

mrichartz
11-18-2018, 07:49 AM
It has to look worse before it looks better.

Going to build a cross bar for on top of transom which meant cutting away part of I/O exhaust opening. They get filled anyway as I dont want this to look like a red neck I/O project when done.
I will tie the knees in with that cross bar.

I dont want anything moving.

5 1/2" Pad looks about right :thumbsup:

Do they have the same bottom? I know you don't have the notch/step in the transom but 423647

Ok found the pic of the transom again, kept going right past it..really needs to be a rotate button for pics

Instigator
11-18-2018, 08:10 AM
Yes.
Wanted to add a pad to my Sonics but it’s round bottom/keel made it very difficult.
This should be cake.
Plan is to lay up some glass strips 5 1/2” wide then bond them to the bottom.

Was also part of plan from start.

Should be something very special or....., an ugly turd ��



Do they have the same bottom? I know you don't have the notch/step in the transom but 423647

Instigator
11-18-2018, 08:13 AM
Flat pad.

5 1/2” came from my head 🤓


Will it be a Delta pad? Where are you coming up with 5 1/2" ?

Instigator
11-18-2018, 08:20 AM
Waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy to much work.


It's your boat but you might want to consider a different approach.

Instigator
11-18-2018, 04:58 PM
I like it. I like it a lot.
The piece across the top of the transom is actually two pieces of 7 ply, 3/4” Okume marine ply.

The term “unbreakable” comes to mind.

Instigator
11-30-2018, 06:18 PM
Tank is done and on its way and I am ready for it.

Now if I can get Paul off his puter and check my motors so I know whether to start shopping again.

Dave Strong
11-30-2018, 06:24 PM
Tank is done and on its way and I am ready for it.

Now if I can get Paul off his puter and check my motors so I know whether to start shopping again.

He is busy having Facebook issues, go figure.:rolleyes:

Dave

Instigator
12-03-2018, 06:31 PM
Well the deal for/Paul’s motors fell through but the tank showed up annnnddddd, it fits 😉

Dave Strong
12-03-2018, 06:59 PM
So your back looking for a pair of motors?

Dave

FUJIMO
12-03-2018, 07:23 PM
Waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy to much work.
...you can say that again...https://www.screamandfly.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=423648&d=1542546981 (https://www.screamandfly.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=423648&d=1542546981)

FUJIMO
12-03-2018, 07:30 PM
coming along. sure don't miss doing that stuff. at all. you do realize the short window of time you have, to lay glass over that resin coated stuff, before you need to sand the surface? all the resins waxes, etc., surface...and make secondary bonding poorer. yes, lamination resins have wax in them.https://www.screamandfly.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=424605&d=1543619864 (https://www.screamandfly.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=424605&d=1543619864)

Instigator
12-03-2018, 07:38 PM
Yep.

Two days to be chemical bond and mechanical only, after two days.

Can get wax no/wax resin.

Dave, yes.


coming along. sure don't miss doing that stuff. at all. you do realize the short window of time you have, to lay glass over that resin coated stuff, before you need to sand the surface? all the resins waxes, etc., surface...and make secondary bonding poorer. yes, lamination resins have wax in them.https://www.screamandfly.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=424605&d=1543619864 (https://www.screamandfly.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=424605&d=1543619864)

baja200merk
12-03-2018, 09:36 PM
Stop lying to yourself and just buy Keith’s monty v8s already. :D

MattGreen
12-03-2018, 10:59 PM
Stop lying to yourself and just buy Keith’s monty v8s already. :D
100% agree, great project Gary, those V8s would be icing on the cake and now you have the fuel capacity you need ;)

Matt

89LASER
12-04-2018, 11:31 AM
I like the fit you have on your fuel tank. Where is the fuel sender being mounted? I f it's in the rear like my boat it'll always read full. Wave to Wave did one for the 22 Activator they're rebuilding with the sender in the center of the tank, which no mater how you pitch it, it'll read fairly correct.

Instigator
12-04-2018, 12:42 PM
Screwed up and put in aft. Meant to do forward but agreed on accuracy.
My Sonics were mounted forward and sucked too.

On the 8’s:

Its a weekender not a race boat.

Non VRO.

Too big.

Too heavy.

Need different gear cases. ($$$)

Too loud.

Etc......


If the boat was a 28’ I might consider them.


I like the fit you have on your fuel tank. Where is the fuel sender being mounted? I f it's in the rear like my boat it'll always read full. Wave to Wave did one for the 22 Activator they're rebuilding with the sender in the center of the tank, which no mater how you pitch it, it'll read fairly correct.

89LASER
12-04-2018, 02:03 PM
No fuel in it yet, never too late. Just have to put a deck plate in over it. I used a Wema style sender so the gas gauge needle doesn't bounce around.

Instigator
12-04-2018, 02:11 PM
That’s what I’m thinking. Would be in middle of floor too.

Been using those senders for a while and love them.


No fuel in it yet, never too late. Just have to put a deck plate in over it. I used a Wema style sender so the gas gauge needle doesn't bounce around.

mrichartz
12-08-2018, 02:18 PM
So do you have a plan/Layout for your cabin yet?
Any leads on motors yet ?
What about Bracket...come on get to work! dont wait for me to post pics:D

Instigator
12-09-2018, 09:31 AM
Havent spent any time on it yet.
Part of it will be dependent on what I come up with for cabin entry and bulkheads.

Ideas include doing as you did and open vee births for storage (did this on my Sonics too) and also either eliminating or heavily modding the anchor locker which is worthless, especially w/the lounge now being open.

Got the inside of the reinforced transom gelled yesterday. Was the wrong color of grey but all I could find. Will go to matching colored paint next.



So do you have a plan/Layout for your cabin yet?
Any leads on motors yet ?
What about Bracket...come on get to work! dont wait for me to post pics:D

Instigator
12-09-2018, 10:12 AM
Any leads on motors yet ?
What about Bracket...come on get to work! dont wait for me to post pics:D

PS, as you know, my 3rd motor deal fell through and Im about done wasting time waiting on other people.
Latest lame brain idea is, find two late '90's V-6 loopers and build my own, similar to yours.
Thats what I did for my last Sonic and worked fine.

Soon as my latest motor refund check clears, Ill go shopping.

The bracket is looking like itll be built from glass by me.

FMP
12-09-2018, 10:55 AM
BRP, send this man a couple G2 300 , for good PR!

1954bmw
12-09-2018, 11:28 AM
Hey Gary, South Mass craigslist has a pair of 99 225 Evinrudes for $8000, don't know if that's for the pair or each?????

Greg G
12-09-2018, 11:35 AM
https://worcester.craigslist.org/bpo/d/pair-of-225-hp-counter/6758580171.html?lang=zh

Greg G
12-09-2018, 11:36 AM
https://corpuschristi.craigslist.org/bpo/d/pair-of-evinrude-250hp/6744635442.html