Mercury 2.0L V6 Build Questions - Head Work and Sleeve Replacement

[Gordon02]

Hi Guys, I've been coming here for over 15 years to read and enjoy many of the threads here. I used to be a contributing editor for Bass & Walleye Boats magazine and attended many of the OBDA races from 1999 through 2005. I've lost my old user name "CBurt" password and the recovery email is long gone too. I'm Gordon and look forward to making some post and continuing to follow many of the stories here.

I used the search function to dig up some old conversations on the older Mercury XR2/2.0L V6's, but did not find what I was looking for. I've got a 1989 2.0L engine that I want to build for a project boat. The engine has 1 bad cylinder and I want to have a new sleeve installed in this one hole.

Questions -
1) What are the minimum chamber cc's that a 2.0L can live on pump gas? I've measured the stock chambers at approx 34cc, but I've read somewhere on another site "26cc" will work on pump gas, but that sounds tight. I ask because I'd love to have these cut since cutting could clean up the damage the broken #6 piston left in the head on that cylinder.

2) We've moved from South Carolina where I had a great shop nearby that did outboard machine work. I'm now in south Alabama and the shop here says they can install a new sleeve (I'll have to provide the new one), but they would be using a boring bar to machine the old sleeve away. I thought you heated the block and pulled the sleeve, but I've never seen it done. Is boring the old one "away" acceptable or should I run and make the long, 16 hour round-trip to South Carolina and that old, familiar shop?

Replies/insights welcome! Thanks, Gordon

[90VIPER]

I could be wrong but i thought the 2.0 had the liner cast right into the block and cannot be pulled like the 2.5 steel bore engines can.

[skeeter91]

I could be wrong but i thought the 2.0 had the liner cast right into the block and cannot be pulled like the 2.5 steel bore engines can.
^^This is correct, as far as the fishing motors ive had experience with. Is the damage in the cylinder too much to clean up with say a .020 a overbore?

[Gordon02]

Oh yea, the bore/liner is beyond simple boring. The piston came apart and bent the rod when the top hit the cylinder head. I have confirmed there is no damage to the block, but the sleeve has to be replaced. Here are some photos -

Thanks, Gordon

396579
396580

[Keaten]

The machine shop should be able to bore the old sleeve out, then replace with new one if u can fine one to replace it. Is it a 2.4 block base or 2.5 looks like 2.4

[tlwjkw]

The machine shop should be able to bore the old sleeve out, then replace with new one if u can fine one to replace it. Is it a 2.4 block base or 2.5 looks like 2.4

dowel pins give it away.. "fat block" 2.0 motor......

[Gordon02]

Ok, thanks for the exchanges! Based on above replies, boring out the old one appears to be more than acceptable and the only way to remove the damaged, original liner. LA Sleeve makes the replacement sleeves, so I'll proceed.

Any comments on the cylinder head chamber size? This head damage will completely clear at 28cc, but is 28 or that before mentioned 26cc too tight for pump gas?

Thanks, Gordon

[tlwjkw]

one thing you need to check is tha build date.. fat block didn't show till '91.. what made you determine '89?......

cut tha heads, put 'em on and see what develops...

[Gordon02]

This is a SeaRay 135 horse actually and I got it cheap - I assumed it was the same engine as the older XR2 motors, but that was just my conclusion after looking at parts availability. According to the same parts listings, Mercury only made the SeaRay badged outboards in 1988 and 1989. I want to use it on an 18/19 foot Center Console that I plan find and restore. This engine has low hours based on the measurements of all the components. Failure to service the waterpump certainly contributed to the death of #6 by it's previous owner - I found rubber impeller pieces throughout the cooling passages in the block. The vanes of the impeller were all broken and missing 1/2 of their mass. Again, thanks for inputs - Gordon

[tlwjkw]

gottcha!.. sounds like its had a power head change somewhere down tha line... if you look at tha base of number two on tha block half where case splits there is a build date stamp.. kinda right behind tha "bend" in tha advance arm.. will be 1/8" numbers.. m/d/yr....

[Gordon02]

Ah....9/9/96! Good thing or bad? I didn't think one could get this dirty/crud covered in such short time. I bought my 1999 2.5L new and it still looks like new. This will certainly help getting the right parts ordered.

396591
396592
396593

[Gordon02]

So, I now know that I've got a 1996/1997 model Mercury 135 horse 2.0L "fat block" thanks to you guys. A Big Thanks!

My first eBay purchase against this project came in today and while every casting and forging number on both rods/pistons match exactly, there are differences...I carefully read through many eBay auctions looking for a port-side 2.0L "standard bore" connecting rod, matching cap, and piston. I was careful to study and match all of the forging and casting numbers on the rod and piston with my original #4 pieces. The parts and description all matched perfectly.

Well, why these numbers all "match", the pieces raise questions -
1) The original pistons are from a 1996 and have the oil holes and notches.
2) The eBay piston is from a 1992 and no holes and no notches.

Should I machine the notches and oiling holes into the 1992 piston? It measures a perfect 3.105", so I really want to use it.

3) The original, 1996 rod bearings are caged in Nylon/Plastic.
4) The eBay 1992 rod bearings are caged in steel.

Thanks, Gordon
396656
396657

[tlwjkw]

same other than tha cage material (only difference), size all same regardless from 1976 till whenever tha 2.0/2.4/2.5 went away in lew of tha 3.0 motor.. tha metal cage is more desired in a motor that's gonna be turned up 7 grand or more.... you need to check rod numbers closely.. '92 "could have been" a bottom guided rod/piston where tha '96 "should be" top guided rod/piston.. bottom and top guided pistons are different and use different wrist pin bearings and spacers......
both "look" top guided but its a picture and i'm old......

number on '92 and '96 rod?

[Gordon02]

Both rods have the forged # 644-818141 along their beams, but surprisingly those piston numbers are identical yet we can see obvious differences. I'll check piston side-to-side measurements tomorrow and see if both are comparable.

[tlwjkw]

top guided stuff.. different "runs" and different "suppliers" of merc parts can have same part numbers but may have some slight differences but in essence are tha same...........

[faztbullet]

Make sure you use a good shop to resleeve as the old sleeve cannot be removed, you install a sleeve in the enlarged old sleeve and it needs to be right so it locks in place. Then have the ports matched up...

[largecar91]

You can run 26cc heads on good pump gas but watch the timing. 25 degrees and hi test will work.

[90 5.0]

You can run 26cc heads on good pump gas but watch the timing. 25 degrees and hi test will work.

Whats that pump up too? Is it under 150?

I’ve read that you “can” run 28cc on a 2.4 on pump gas, but I haven’t tried it.

And I can’t see it, @ 31cc on a 2.4 I’m at 145 and haven’t done a compression check with the 28’s on it yet.

I could slap my 28’s on my old 2.0 and see what it pumps up to I guess but I would think that would be right at the edge. Maybe maybe not, porting has a lot to do with cranking compression so who knows.

[wrechin2]

The "fat block" 2.0 still has a cast in liner and has to be bore and a sleeve installed in the original bore. It is also a idle relief engine so compression will be different when measured. I have built many 2.0 engines and 26cc is what we use on lake fishing engines and is also what we have to use on our COR race engines as per the rules. There are so many variables in machining of the block and it is usually yields 140-150 psi (will be lower on idle relief engines) and good for 93 octane and deepening on use of engine, I usually run 20-23* especially on a idle relief engine. Just my experiences.

[Glastron1987]

This is off topic a bit but I'm wondering if to repair a cylinder you always have to use a sleeve, or it is possible with one of these 2.0 fat blocks there is enough steel meat so that it could be bored to accept a 3 3/8" or 3.5" piston without even using a sleeve?

[wrechin2]

This is off topic a bit but I'm wondering if to repair a cylinder you always have to use a sleeve, or it is possible with one of these 2.0 fat blocks there is enough steel meat so that it could be bored to accept a 3 3/8" or 3.5" piston without even using a sleeve?

The cast iron jug gets a little thin at the bottom. Sometimes it will break into the aluminum. You then could install a 2.4 sleeve and cut the finger ports in. A lot of work. People almost give the 2.4 blocks away which would be a better base to start with. Don't get me wrong, I like 2Ls. My avatar was a modified 2L and was pretty nasty on a ski boat. But for the same money I could have bought and built a 2.4 200 with about the same results.

[Keaten]

In your experience wrechin2 ,does the 2.0 with 2.4 fat block work better with port timing changes better when u deck the block and shaving pistons to match. Or cutting ports to spec..? My building a 2.0 and wanting to get info..

[Glastron1987]

I have a stuck 2.0 that I'll be taking apart in a few months so I may have a lot of questions then.

[Gordon02]

Guys, thanks for the inputs! I did some measuring on my 2.0 "fat block" this week and sent some time on the phone with Technical Services at LA Sleeve.

The OD of the original sleeve in my block measures 3.468", so approx .1715" wall thickness (3.125" bore)

LA Sleeves standard 2.0L sleeves have a 3/32" (.09375") wall thickness and are 30 thousandths undersized in the bore for customer finishing.

· Part # LA-04 OD with an OD = 3.315" (standard sleeve)
· Part # L-04-OB with OD = 3.378"
· Part # L-04-OB +20 with OD = 3.398"
· Part # L-04-OB +40 with OD = 3.418"

All of these list for a $125~135 and are considered stock items. They'll make about anything you want custom, but those will cost you $300.
Technical Support -
1-562-945-7578

[wrechin2]

In your experience wrechin2 ,does the 2.0 with 2.4 fat block work better with port timing changes better when u deck the block and shaving pistons to match. Or cutting ports to spec..? My building a 2.0 and wanting to get info..

The 2.4 "fat block" was nothing but a 2.5L style block with 2.4 sleeves. These engine have removable sleeves and a lot of mods and power could be made from it because of this.

A 2.0 "fat block" is still has a cast iron jug with a idle relief that is casted in the block. Only real advantage with it over the 2nd generation blocks, is the fact of the horizontal front and top guided rods. I have found in some cases that the vertical front runs better but again application is key. It is mostly about volume metric efficiency. The 2 fat block engines are 2 totally different engines. Keep in mind that the rings mostly control the timing. Flow can not occur until the rings have past the port. You can deck the block and the piston but the rings and the port remain in the same place. This is not a substitute for porting, I have done this in the past with little to no gains. To trick the engine in thinking it has better porting, a huge champher on the port will do much better as this will make the port open (for the most part) sooner and will be a more notable gain. Just my thoughts.

[90 5.0]

The "fat block" 2.0 still has a cast in liner and has to be bore and a sleeve installed in the original bore. It is also a idle relief engine so compression will be different when measured. I have built many 2.0 engines and 26cc is what we use on lake fishing engines and is also what we have to use on our COR race engines as per the rules. There are so many variables in machining of the block and it is usually yields 140-150 psi (will be lower on idle relief engines) and good for 93 octane and deepening on use of engine, I usually run 20-23* especially on a idle relief engine. Just my experiences.

Good point didn’t even think about the idle releif ports

[Keaten]

Will you explain on the port champher mods please

[wrechin2]

I will cut a sleeve in half today while I am in the shop so I can show you. :thumbsup: I am trying to warm my shop up. 18* here today. Machines don't like to be cold

[Keaten]

Thanks for the info ..it's winter here too I'm Goin crazy can't run the boats lol..

[wrechin2]

The champher is the small angle cut on the port that the arrow is pointing to.

http://i67.tinypic.com/bfl1tv.jpg

[wrechin2]

I then use machinist dye and put a scribe line where I want the new champher to be.

http://i63.tinypic.com/2zoy981.jpg

[wrechin2]

I then grind up to the mark at approx 45 degree angle. I do this so that all are the same across the board. This is a rough cut to show you what it is.

This angle will allow the exhaust to start flowing a little sooner tricking it in thinking it has better porting because the ring pass this angle and the flow begins. This is a .100 champher which is similar to what is found on FF 200 blocks and 200 & 225 pro max blocks.

http://i64.tinypic.com/mu9a8l.jpg

[Keaten]

Ok I'm in.. :cool: I'll measure the ports tomorrow at the shop and hopefully. .be back with more questions about how much to cut..
I've got a 2.0 apart as a winter project doin all the mods my self .. so far I've cut chest lil more than mild , honed cylinders getn new rings,cleaned up rod stot slag, square ported pistons, filled in old oil pump area in number 2 with epoxy, horz 5pet front cut .065 , ported cages with ccms reeds, Ccms 1" intake spacer WH 20s carbs., heads at 150 psi 28cc I think.. (if I add the porting changes like above pics in exhaust will it help it a lot ?)

[wrechin2]

The exhaust I posted on your other thread is mild. You want to direct the exhaust. The small chest such as found on many v6 mercury is directed up torward the divider and then has to turn downward. The factory performance engines help flow by angling the flow down from the start. The chest I done on the 2.4 shown is very close to a 260 but I angle it more than mercury did. Mine is 45 degrees and mercury is 38 degrees.

[Keaten]

This is wat ive got.. 397140

[wrechin2]

The thing is the angle. You have removed material but the main direction is up. Need to cut some off of the port towards the bottom to change the angle to make it longer at the top. Study what it looks like and you will understand how the flow is now versus what you want.

[Keaten]

Ok ill cut it to 45 deg on the drop below the port to make it flow down more i see wat your sayn thanks.. About the port timing wat would be a good amount to cut out.. .100 like above or less..

[Keaten]

I measured the port i think i did it right. .lol397202397203397204397205397206the champher cut would be on the inner part correct the back side would stay same correct. . Sorry so many questions. ..ha thank you for all the good pics and extra effort

[Gordon02]

I want to install studs into the cylinder block and use washers/nuts to attach the heads. I looked on APE's site and that of ARP for cylinder head studs, but I haven't found them. I've done this on my bike builds and want to have this 2.0L build done this way. Is there an economical source out there? I've had more than a couple of the stock bolts snap while trying to bring them to torque. Even with lightly oiled threads, my last build, a 2.4L had 2 head bolts shear off on me before I could make that last 90 degree pull.

Thanks, Gordon

[Keaten]

I got some from fasnal just bring a old head bolt to them and they can help u out..

[Dave S]

Fun thread. Never had bolts snap un less pulling out of salty junk. Do not 90/ the wrong rod bolts.

[Gordon02]

The two bolts snapped upon reassembly and they were the original head bolts that I'd taken out just a week before. I use zip-loc bags and label related assemblies as I go - no chance of confusion whether it's a day later or a year later. I'd learned this lesson the hard way restoring vintage motorcycles. Threads were clean as was the block, the bolts gave up. A good friend and local Merc mechanic with more gray hair than me says he's had dozens twist in two over the years. My push for studs come more from the fact I don't like repeated threading into aluminum. With a stud, you install it once with Blue loctite and you can remove the nuts 100 times without loss of clamping. The aluminum threads of the cylinder block wear every time the bolts are torqued when using bolts.

397219

[tlwjkw]

tha 90+ suck for for most here ta use.. they aren't for a motor that's gonna have tha heads removed more than once a year... never "broke one" but have pulled block threads a few times till I figured out tha 35/40lbs (felt 40 was pushin' it though) was plenty good... never did understand tha "real reason" for tha bolt type change.. didn't really care!.. I can see a reason for studs and/or tha reusable 35 lb. type bolts on genuine stem winder motors and also tha torque ta yield on everyday "fishin' motors though.. don't know of any hot rod builders that actually use tha 90+ junk method on their stuff, heads or case halves...... jmo.



"Do not 90/ the wrong rod bolts.".. use ta see this often....

[Capt.Insane-o]

Chris Carson has stud kits

[RoyE]

Jep, here is a link to CCM ebay account with the studs: Chris Carson Marine eBay studs (https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=carsonracing82&hash=item415b3c7c0a&item=280703454810&pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&_osacat=0&vxp=mtr&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xstud.TRS0&_nkw=stud&_sacat=0)
Not sure if the HSK2.0 or the HSKU is the one to go for. In any way they can and will answer all your questions if you email/call them.

Thank you for documenting everything and many thanks to the people that take the time to instruct and help others out! Thinking about a similar project myself and this is really motivating :D might start a similar project/topic myself in the near future.

[Glastron1987]

Probably for another thread, but the pictures above of the exhaust ports and improvements to them were really interesting. It be great to see something similar to that for the intake ports too.

[wrechin2]

The 2L already has aggressive "intakes". I leave them alone. Other engines I raise the shelf to change the intake ports. Just my experieces.

[TEXAS20225]

i see you used a tator chip bag as a spacer ta hold up that sleeve u posed to be on a diet mister :D my trick pmax is really smokin i changed the ecu

[Glastron1987]

Good to know about the intakes for when I take mine apart. Also I'll use the chip bag:)

[wrechin2]

Not a chip bag....sunflower seeds!:D

[Glastron1987]

How difficult would it be to mod a 2.0L still on regular gas and exceed the power of an XR4?

[wrechin2]

Can be done but would be a lot of work. If you have the xr4 it would be a lot easier to make more power from it.

[Glastron1987]

What I suppose for the XR4 would be composite reeds (which I've done), convert to horizontal front, a stuffer, and maybe some limited head work is what might do it?

[W2F a V-King]

^^^ and some port matching....the XR4 motor I had looked like a late Friday night at 5:30 build when it went to the sleeving section of the line...

[Glastron1987]

Great info:thumbsup: