How do you guys deal with deadbeat customers.

[Capt.Insane-o]

I've got 5 vehicles, 3 boats 2 cars and a tractor. Between all of them I have well over 18 grand into them. All of them are sitting at my shop chained together and blocked in. They were dropped off to me in the late fall and finished just after the new year with verbal agreements to pick them up as they were finished. Well guess what. All I've gotten is excuse after excuse. And I just scraped the last of my change off the dresser to put gas in my truck and eat today. My boats are in pieces, truck needs work, I need work and thank whatever my house is paid up untill August. 1 77 corvette I put a 454 and 4 speed in. 1 25 foot checkmate 540 and drive work. 1 23 foot baja 454 in and drive work. 1. 27 foot sportcraft new 350 1. Chevelle new turbo 400 and rear end and gas tank. 1. ford 800 rebuilt motor and new radiator. I've been in touch with all of them, one has a damn good reason but still, they are killing me, I can't go forward too much further on my "good" customers jobs because I am now pretty much pennyless. All of these people are not hurting at all ie Dow, G.M. Delphi, etc employees. I have the paper work for liens, etc but don't really want to go there due to "payback". (Seen it before.) I'm telling ya, I was pushed pretty damn close to the edge as it is this winter and don't need anymore help. Sorry for bitchin' had to vent.:mad:

[Skittles]

I hear you. I am starting to think that there is no good way, the nicer I am the more I'm taken advantage of. Then I finally say enough is enough and before you know it I've got windows being shattered at night and stuff being stolen, etc etc.. Am I asking to much to get paid??????? :mad: If someone has any tricks please let me know.

[Looper]

Start accruing storage at $35.00 or so per day. Give them notice in advance, and add to your work orders in the future. You are getting used until the weather turns nice.

Sounds like a cash crunch. When your A/R is older than your A/P, time to go to plan B.

If that doesn't work means the customer doesn't intend to pay, time for a mechanic's lien.

[Capt.Insane-o]

Man, do I hear you there. I am totally at wits end. Totally. These assholes could'nt have gotten better deals anywhere else. Now after my phone calls yesterday asking very nice to please come get there stuff I am being MOFO'd left and right. Yet they had/have enough money to go snowmobiling every weekend, get new vehicles, go on trips, be at the bars every night etc. If this is going to be the way it is I am done wiith everything.

[Skittles]

I love what I do but the people are just getting to be to much. I am not a crook in anyway, I am a boater through and through.I want to help people get on the water. I don't want to charge the 99.00/labor rates the big guys charge. I would be helping to make this hobby unaffordable for most people. I just cant keep it up, bills behind, truck needs work. To top it all off season for me is taking its good sweet time getting here. I'm with you I am really finding myself thinking it's time to find something else.

[Capt.Insane-o]

good customers. Pay up front, take me out to lunch/dinner invite me along for weekend jaunts, but the Fuc&ers that are screwing me are making it so I can't do anything for anyone.

[Liqui-Fly]

I'm pretty much convinced that the majority consists of non bill paying, let someone else deal with it, scam artist, scum bag peckerheads. But along the way you meet some really good people and it makes it all worth while. Stick their **** out front with a for sale sign.

David

[10.5' Tunnel]

What also pisses me off is that I see this happening in my generation. I loan someone a couple bucks, do I ever see it again? No. I mean it is just a couple of bucks here and there, but when they get older they will probably turn into the dumb ignorant f*$#S that make it extremely hard for hard working people to survive.

[Skittles]

They just piss me off, especially when the people that don't pay them are worth big money. I got stiffed on a horn once......a 10.00 friken horn. The guy lived in a big waterfront house and he stiffed me for a horn. Just enough to just piss you off.

[JTS Racing]

First have a contract of services for them to sign in the beginning stating the requirements once work is completed. This will give you a mechanics lein. Worth paying a lawyer to help set it up so it will stand up in court if need be. Send certified letter/invoice, with signature required, once work is completed. List period of time for which they have to pick up and pay. Normally we do 10 days. After said date, $XX in storage fee will apply (Fee must be reasonable and customary for your area). If not picked up within 30 days item will be sold for amount owed. You can't sell for more than the bill or the customer gets the difference. So make one of your better customers real happy and get more free dinners:D

[Capt.Insane-o]

It's the goddamn Stern Drivers that are the worst, we outboard guy seem to know we own junk in the first place, and don't bitch too much. But man charge a S/D guy 150 bucks to crawl into a hole stand on your head and change plugs, wires and oil + filter look out!, your a damn criminal!:rolleyes:

[Jeff_G]

Cash and carry. We don't take checks, or credit cards. Pick it up in one week or you'll never get it back. Lien time. No special orders without payment up front. deposits on all jobs over $1,000. I uaed to be a nice guy in business. Wanna see $5K in old useless special order parts and boats that are literally rotting? No more.

Why be nice? You don't want their work in the future and if word of mouth is bothering you they have already burnt bridges. Consider the source. I'll make a bid on the tractor! Raceman may take the vette!

[VELOCITOY]

HEY CAPT...How much do you want for the Vette & the Checkmate???...LOL...That would "work"!!!..........I agree...The nicer you are AND the "richer" the client, the more likely you are to get SCREWED!!!...Plus, the "rich" ones throw quarters around like manhole covers!!!.....I feel for ya!!!...........

[Capt.Insane-o]

No, the guy was diagnosed with diabeties and is having a real hard time with it , and I don't have a bunch in the tractor,+ I'm using it. So I'm giving him the benifit of the doubt. The checkmate is nice, but I don't like them. Any vette after 72 is junk, Would'nt catch me dead in a Chevelle, I'm a Pontiac guy through and through 100% Sportcraft is nice, great salmon boat, but it was a well used charter boat. All the fishing gear is in it though:eek: I really don't want any of this stuff, (maybe the tractor) stuff is not getting my boat in the water, I've whined and bitched enough, thanks for listening/ looking, and yes my rules are a changing.

[Ziemer]

Deadbeat customers suck. We deal with it every once in awhile with our shirt business, but we seem to have a pretty good system down now. It only takes that one big sh*thead to make you change the way you do business. We always get 50% down on all orders and you pay the difference at delivery or you don't get the product. With our business everything is custom so it's worthless to anyone other than the original customer.

With your situation, maybe try this:

Take a picture of each of the vehicles not paid for, with a big For Sale sign on each of them with some rediculous price (i.e. maybe $3000.00 for the Vette) and send the pics to the owners.

That would get my attention.

[B.Mac]

Originally posted by Looper
Start accruing storage at $35.00 or so per day. Give them notice in advance, time for a mechanic's lien.

I went through that crap all the time with home construction /repairs........
I found out that it does NOT pay to wait a nano-second.
With real property (real estate) the law requires you to give the owner "written notice of intent to lien" (available at any office supply store).
Usually, a typed, legal looking notice listing big $$$$$$ storage fees, repair bills plus interest accrued, AND the certified mailing or better yet, HAND DELIVERED SERVICE @ $35 is enough to scare the crap outta the average dirtball and you'll have 'yer money in a week........Nothing gets filed with the Court for ten days.......
I would use this process and you'll get your $$$

Done it dozens of times and it works believe me.......never had 'ta go to Court.........Once they think you've "initiated" the "legal process" to levy thier property, all the sudden a check appears.

Then it's your turn to negotiate the storage fees downward a little 'ta be a "nice guy"
B.MAC:D

[Capt.Insane-o]

No way, not after this, cash baby and that's all.:eek:

[B.Mac]

I meant certified check or cash...........:D

Hey Captain..........If you want I'll doctor up one scary looking legal document for ya......PM me the customer name, the vehicle and VIN#s, repair cost, time since completed (stored), name of City, County & State, and the Judicial District you live in.
All you gotta do is have it professionally served.......
I promise it will work:D
B.MAC:D

[Capt.Insane-o]

Man, you should here this message on my answering machine from a guy who I repo'd my gearcase from this morning, WOW! Waiting for the cops right now for them to listen to it. I guess I just learned being a nice guy gets you **** on. Call me Captain Dickhead from now on.............LOL!:D

[Vicious]

Well I guess where in the same boat Cap ! I have had to stop the 17' project because of dead beat customers!! It sure has been a trying winter !

[Tripps]

This works,50% deposit for labor,parts up front,your not a bank,if they don't like it ,they proballay would'nt pay anyway!!! I ran my cylinder head operation like that and never had a complaint,or got burned,you can be a little flexable,but they are out there looking to jerk u :mad: :mad: :mad: tripps

[Wile E. Coyote]

Capt.

Check your local laws, and (god I hate saying this) an attorney. In Florida, there is a process you can go through, (its a pain in the a@#) whereby you can sell their junk to recover the cost of repair..... usually all they need to know is you have the legal right to sell their stuff for the COST OF THE REPAIR not even what its worth and they are paying up quick.
Good Luck

[Forkin' Crazy]

Originally posted by Tripps
This works,50% deposit for labor,parts up front,your not a bank,if they don't like it ,they proballay would'nt pay anyway!!!

That is how I ended up running a small body shop I had. My buddy, Jim has a boat shop. He was finished with a boat he did for a guy. Jim told me the guy wanted to pay part now part later, and take the boat!!!! What nerve! He told him that it would only leave when 100% of the bill was paid. I told Jim to watch him because he was trying to rip him off. When he came to pick up the boat, he asked Jim who to make the check out to. Jim said yourself because I won't take a check. Then the guy pulled out CASH (over $2,000) from his back pocket and paid Jim. There was no doubt that guy was a snake.

I did all the bodywork to a '46 Lincoln convertable. The guy I was painting it for paid me some (but not enough) and I was dumb enough to let him take it to do "some engine work"...LOL. 2 weeks later I see it sittting in another bodyshop!:mad:

You know that stripper you can get in a spray can?:eek:

Well I thought about it anyway.....:mad:

PS I want the tractor!;)

[Capt.Insane-o]

For some $$$$ when I get it. I've been having some pretty wild dreams with that boat in it, gonna have to get one for the ol' subconcious there. (How's that for an excuse!) If you need any help down there just let me know, I need some help on my HST, getting the floor back in and stuff and would gladly come help out for a few days if you need it. I'm glad I'm single, if I had a wife bitchin' at me I'd be hanging from a tree limb right now.:eek: :rolleyes:

[Rickracer]

...got taken for 1600 in December. Let a guy take a V-8 S-10 swap outa here owing a little less than half the bill, cuz he was in and out of the hospital and needed transportation to work and go to the doctor. He promised to pay X amount of $$ a week, and like a fool, I believed him. Never paid another dime. Another guy, an ex-car dealer I did work for sometimes, did a carb overhaul for him over a year ago, still haven't gotten paid on that one, this guy is definitely worth several million, and I can't get a measly $100 out of him. Got one sitting here in the shop right now that about half the bill is owed on it for over 2 weeks, storage started the 3rd day, and is now $380. Anyone wanna buy an '89 Baretta? Brand new calipers :D .
Got a Dodge Colt with half a rollcage in it and a new narrowed rear frame section (drag car) in it I had to get the title to about two years ago, it's for sale too. It don't pay to be nice a lot of the time. :mad:

[Skittles]

at least I'm not the only one. We sold a boat not long ago and took 2500 for a depoisit. This was supposed to be nonrefundable due to the fact that we had already started cutting holes and installing all of his options on this particular boat. He decides nope dont want the boat. We say no problem but seeing as how I've started installing your windlass and chargers and this and that I can't refund all of your deposit. Next thing I know we are in court with the guy. No matter how you slice it we lose. It cost more to fight this guy in court than it does to refund his 2500. What do you do? Take a bite of the sh@t sandwhich and move on.

[sosmerc]

I hand my customers a sheet that clearly explains my policies. I also have them sign the work order. My space is very limited so I simply cannot afford to "store" boats. I offer my customers a 10% discount on both parts and labor if they pick up and pay within 5 days of job completion. I always quote the job at full list price plus my full labor rate...then I remind them about the 10% savings if they are prompt. I also reserve the right to collect up front for parts if the job is going to be over $500. If they pay for all the parts in advance they get the 10% off up front and they will still get 10% off labor, but only if they pick up and pay promptly. If they have money invested up front they are usually very good about picking up when the job is done. I am also very careful to keep them informed of how things are going so there are no surprises as to final cost when the job is done. I am not set up to take credit cards, but if someone wants to pay me in advance with PayPal (where they can use their credit card if they want) that will work....though nobody has yet paid me for a service job that way.
I think the key to reducing headaches is being very selective in the first place as to the kind of jobs you do as well as who you do them for. I've been in the business for over 25 years....the last 8 have been on my own and I would do it again in a heartbeat. It's a challenging business, but rewarding as well. Sometimes the toughest thing to do is to say "no" to a potential customer. It's taken me about 8 years to learn how to do that gracefully.
Good luck to all fellow independent businessmen!

[crazy horse]

We have to wait for money all the time, Right now Flint schools are in to us for 7000.00 that job was done during christmas. Cobo's always behind there bills by six months, I don't think they have paid all that they were billed from last year. I know we just billed out about 16000.00 to them and it will take them a least four months to pay us. Most of my schools don't even ask me to bid there repairs, They just tell me to fix there equipment and send them the bill. We have VERY little competition so we always get paid but it can take awhile. I did have to file a intent to lien on the Vet hospital in Sagnaw some years ago, but they paid without having to place a lien on the place. Running a small business can be a pain. When it comes to boats, I mostly work on ones that I know the owner. Even they don't take it without paying first, I have ended up with two boats that guys wouldn't pay off one was a 18' checkmate that I sold and the 15.5' tunnel that I want to sell now. Both guys had real good reasons for not being able to pay but I ended up with there boats anyway. When it gets bad is when you need there money to get by on and can't wait till they get around to paying you.

[Doubledog]

Dead beat customers get the special treatment

3 5 7

:) :) :)


Have a nice day

[Capt.Insane-o]

Beneli 12 gauge. BOOM!

[Ron V]

I think the bottom line to all of this is that in most cases these are paycheck to paycheck people. My neighbor is a good example. Helluva nice guy, great neighbor, I've helped watch his dog numerous times (on a moment's notice) and graced his business (bait shop) a number of times. He comes to me over a month ago asking me to fix his broken bilge pump because he is going to rent a slip and leave his fishing boat in the water this year. By the time I cleaned all of the leaves out of the boat that had accumulated from neglect, waded through some half-assed wiring repairs, and removed the pump which was diagnosed as dead, I had about an hour and a half into it. Told him he needed a new pump. As soon as I told him they are between $15-$20 at West Marine he almost went into a panic on the phone and said he'd order one from his wholesaler so he could get a good deal. Whatever. Two weeks later I asked him if he got it yet. "No, I don't have money for my April order yet." Then he shows me the catalog, HIS cost would be $14, and you can buy them at Walmart for $17! I tell him this for the second time and he says, "Oh, I guess I'm not saving that much then. I'll pick one up." He asked what I was going to wind up charging him for the installation and I just laughed and said shops charge 60-80 bucks an hour but with his good neighbor discount I'd do the whole thing for 20 bucks. That was two weeks ago and the boat is still sitting there. Can afford a grand for a slip but the $35 total cost for the pump and installation must just not be in the budget. Maybe he went into shock over it or something, imagine if he went to a marina. They'd have to haul him away in an ambulance and place him in an oxygen tent after he got the bill. I don't really care, I think the whole thing is hilarious.

Makes me wonder why people like that carry insurance on anything they own. Seeing as how they don't have a snowball's chance of paying the deductible, they'd wind up bankrupt either way if they had a loss.

[LakeTrash]

Interesting thread.

The simple truth is if you are in business for yourself you will eventually deal with the slimebags that make up the general public.

The secret is to stay in business long enought to figure out how to handle them. I failed at that my first two times around but I think I have it figured out now. At least I hope so - too old to start over again.

Hang in there Captain -

See ya at Rumble III

LT

[Raceman]

There's also some kind of Murphey's law/curse thing that always applies to these situations. If you ever do anything super cheap, or sell parts at cost to somebody, that's the one that you'll have all the trouble with.

[crazy horse]

RM, O'man are you right about that:D That's when it always happens.

[sosmerc]

That's a very good point, Raceman. When brand new parts turn out to be faulty, it can be a real bummer. Nobody ever wants to cover your time...sure, they may give you another part, but the time is gone. Certainly not fair to pass that on to the customer...so you eat it. Example, I installed a brand new flywheel on a customer's Bayliner Jazz with 90hp Sportjet. He bought the part from a Bayliner dealer...thought he could fix it himself. (his old one did have a broken magnet and so I guess he thought it was safe to assume that it would run if he stuck on a new one). Wrong....His stator was dead as well. I talked him into new stator, switchbox and regulator (all CDI components). I put the parts on, installed his NEW flywheel....and guess what....plenty of spark, but it would not run. Timing was all over the map...engine even tried to start backwards a few times. I put on his old flywheel with the missing magnet...it fired up and ran fine...but I told him it probably wasn't best to run the old flywheel due to possible imbalance and the fact that I really didn't know what the consequences would be from the missing/broken magnet. The Bayliner dealer would not take back his new flywheel because it was beyond 30 days. I ordered another new one myself from my supplier (keeping my fingers crossed that it would work). Same part number and appearance to his new one.....installed mine, fired up and ran fine. Somehow the inner hub of his NEW one was bad. You could run a magnet around it and see how it "attracted" and "deflected" in a much different manner than his original flywheel and my new one. The flywheel lists for $191....he claims they charged him $500 (I can only hope this included a few hours of testing and tearing their hair out...but he says it was just for the part!) I charged him cost plus 10% on the flywheel and about 3 hours labor for troubleshooting, installing new parts and water testing. I didn't cover all my time, but the guy got so badly "reemed" in the first place and then on top of that a new part turns out to be defective and he surely won't get anything back on that.

[Raceman]

SOS, I thought bizarre problems like that only happened with my stuff. I don't know how Merc is these days, but it used to be that a tech rep would've gotten that handled, at least to the point of replacing the part.

I had one of those Jazz boats about 7 or 8 years ago. The previous owner had cranked it on the trailer and blown the ride plate off it, which I understand is a fairly common mistake with them. Most of the PWC manufacturers recommend that you crank em for a few seconds after they're out of the water to blow the water out of the exhaust. The way the old Force/Sportjet that Bayliner used in the Jazz was designed, it could trap vapor in that cavity and explode if you tried to crank it when dry. The local dealer said he sold a ride plate or two a month because of it. Sometimes they'd just bend the plate and pull a threaded insert, and sometimes he said they'd crack the hull.

I don't know if the present crop of Mercury V6 Sportjets is subject to the same injury, but I never turn the starter on my F16R Sea Rader without it being in the water because of the old Jazz experience.

[JW]

But if you end up selling them, I'm interested in the two Chevys! I want to start a dream car garage like Racemans, and you have to start somewhere..................

[sosmerc]

Yes, I'm aware of that problem too. I bought a special flush unit designed for running on a hose. With some jetskis I was told to start the engine first, then turn on the water and reverse the process when shutting off. No instructions on the Sportjet with the flush, but I sort of assumed the same procedure. I assumed the big concern was excess fuel puddled down in the exhaust getting lit off and causing the ride plate to blow out. Anyway, I avoid working on these squirt boats whenever possible, I've got plenty to do working just on outboards. But I thought that flywheel problem was worth mentioning as I have heard of loose inner hubs, but not hubs that were somehow "polarized" incorrectly.

[stvneil]

self employed, swimming pool contractor. my best customers are buseness owners, they know people call in sick, they know about weather delays. the worst customers are people who can't afford their taste. it has gotten to the point where i won't do pools for people who have extreme demands that they have to be moved up to close on their house or any emergency, they are pure a$$holes/ I AM TOO OLD for this crap.
neil

[Capt.Insane-o]

These people make a damn good living in major corporations. I've had a couple resonses today, the "I'll be there friday" thing. I sat down with my lawyer this afternoon and had some new service contracts drawn up. After a week unless special arrangements are made it's a 100 bucks a day storage and 10% intrest. And after 30 days it's mine. That's it period. Cost me a tune-up and a gimbal bearing. Christ I'm only 30 and somedays my spirit feel like it's 100. Dull and wore out. Funny thing is Fisherman/hunters people who ski all the time, man there calling me asking about their boat, how's it going, when can I pick it up, just fix it I don't care. The uppity yuppie pukes are the problem.:mad:

[Ron V]

Don't think the yuppies don't live paycheck to paycheck even moreso than the redneck fishermen. The yuppies are worse. Take my former boss for example. Made probably about 70 grand a year and his wife was a nurse. She was his third wife, which meant he had child support and two divorces under his personal finances belt. Drove a BMW, had a boat, blew money like crazy (threw away a brand new mountain bike just because a nut came loose and the shifter fell off), built a brand new house that was 4000 sq ft on one level in a fancy neighborhood, you name it. Do the math on that one and there's no way.