Good source for understanding all the different Mercs. XS, Promax etc.

[DangerNewb]

Can anyone point me in a direction to gain some knowledge on the various Merc 2 stroke engines. I'm thinking of buying a hull and want to figure out what I'd be looking for in an engine. I would want something high performance with a LWP, torque tab etc.

Hoping to find a website or thread that explains the different engines. Weights, RPM ranges etc. Carb or EFI etc.

Thanks for any guidance.

[skeeter91]

lots of good info on here as well as very knowledgeable people, tricky part is sorting through the b.s. that abounds on here(and many other sites)where are you in NC?

[Charger20sv]

www.google.com will be able to help you find out anything you need to know

[DangerNewb]

lots of good info on here as well as very knowledgeable people, tricky part is sorting through the b.s. that abounds on here(and many other sites)where are you in NC?

I've searched around S&F and found several threads that get into details about specific motors but haven't had any luck finding a listing with model years, carb, efi, x, xs Promax etc, 2.4, 2.5, 3.0 liter. What years were each offered, what hp ratings were offered, some more for high performance applications and some for general use? I've read about some of the different fuel injections types and the oiling system changing etc but don't have a good understanding of the overall models and which were made when and what the primary differences were.



www.google.com (http://www.google.com) will be able to help you find out anything you need to know

Believe it or not, I've heard of Google. I end up on the same few youtube videos about Optimax vs XS and the Wikipedia listing for Mercury Marine which is pretty much silent on large 2 strokes from the 1980 to now. Tried several different search phrases and just not finding what I'm looking for.

[crawl]

Im kinda in the same boat. Im in the process of recore/transom/floor/everything on an old stream and trying to learn motors. I come from an automotive background. I cant believe the most popular engines(2 stroke v6) for cool small fast boats doesnt have a good info source, or basic guide.
Ive been reading for years and still would feel like im going out on a limb making a motor choice on the used market, in my cheap ass price range.

Some example questions about mercury tech from a nob:

Ive read that the factory manual is not the end all of instruction on a rebuild. There are some other details that should be taken. Would it be totally top secret stuff here? Is it some simple little step(s) that could make your rebuild more reliable?

Are there certain years in the early 90's that are odd balls and possiblly hard to get parts for?

What Merc v6 years/models are the best foundations for performance, or reliability/rebuild in the 2.0, 2.4, 2.5 displacements?

What all could be torn off a say 1988 xr2 150 to save wieght and be more reliable. Ive read snippets of info that timing boxes, oil injection, ect can all be ditched. How much weight can be shaved?

[DangerNewb]

where are you in NC? I'm in the Raleigh area. I run my boat primarily at Jordan.


Im kinda in the same boat. Im in the process of recore/transom/floor/everything on an old stream and trying to learn motors. I come from an automotive background. I cant believe the most popular engines(2 stroke v6) for cool small fast boats doesnt have a good info source, or basic guide. Yep, I'm with you. There has to be a listing such as

1980-1992 2.0 liter 2 stroke offered in 150,175,200 carbed
1993-1999 2.5 liter 2 stroke .....
2000-2007 3 liter 2 stroke offered as Promax for high performance applications, Optimax for regular use.

I'm making stuff up here obviously. An accurate list of years, models and key differences would be great.

[skeeter91]

i was born in Durham, grew up in all three points of the triangle, fished Jordan, Falls, and Kerr with my pop. I'm just west of Charlotte now, got a pile of fishin' motor parts,2.4 and 2.5 ,laser EFI stuff,not much hi po stuff. I'm currently finishing up a Gambler bass boat i've been working on for the last year and a half. I spent about 4 years collecting all the parts to build a 225 promax "copy", got most all the parts from members on here. I'd be happy to help you out if you need anything, i gotta thin a bunch of this stuff out! depends on what hull your using and budget to help decide on a good starting point for your foray into this hobby. hard to beat a 1996 -1999, 200hp merc for a hot rod platform, lots of good threads on building one on here, still a good selection of parts still available too.

[DangerNewb]

Skeeter, I have a Valero YT with a modified 1999 200. It runs great but I'm looking at another hull (no motor) to see if I can get something that will do better in rougher water. As you know, lots of boat traffic around here in the summer lots of wakeboard boats. The very short running surfaces of the Valero aren't very good with waves. The boat is a ton of fun to drive and certainly a challenge but if the main lake has traffic I might as well not even head out there. Have to stay in certain fingers and coves.

[skeeter91]

yeah, they are all nuts in the warm weather months, worse thing to happen in recent years are those F#$%ING wakeboard boats! sucks in a smaller body of water such as the river channels, oh well, that's price of progress!:rolleyes:
Anyway, a 20 ft or bigger, say like a Checkmate or Wellcraft would be a good choice, for playing around in the rough i guess? Im a fisherman myself, so im off the water by 11 am on the summer weekends! I do love the go fast stuff and would love to own a high performance boat like a hydrostream or a Laser one day, but i'm content playing with my basser's for now.

[David]

Mother Mercury has a complex story. I doubt you will find it in one place.

If you know the boat, your budget, and your planned use the crowd here will give you good advice.

[DangerNewb]

Thanks Skeeter and David.

Looking at a 2002 200xs. Are these really 200hp? Or a high performance 200 really making 200 plus? Considering a 20 foot Seebold Eagle with no engine. I've read some of the Promax engines and xs engines make more power than listed. Did xs replace Promax in the line? Both are 'racing' models within the Mercury lineup? I have a modified 1990 200 fishing motor on Valero now. Drilled or cut exhaust. Loud! Are the Promax and/or xs models similar sound. Not sure I enjoy the scream after awhile. Thanks.

[Tango]

I would LOVE to find a resource of info to determine all the differences on just the 3.0L & 3.2L stuff. I have two 1998 300X Promax motors which pretty much nothing is interchangeable to any 2.5L stuff nor has much performance value other than being a heavier grunt ultimately for my Flats boat.

I also have two 3.0L 225 Optimax motors which I am learning are simply identical to a 250hp Opti with just the ECU being different and the RPM limits higher on the 250hp model.

What makes the 225/250hp Optis an "XS" model?

Will just swapping to a stroker 3.2L crank make a 225/250 motor into a 300XS with the proper reflash or ECU?

I am currently building my 21 Eliminator Daytona as a center-steer boat to run the 2018 Parker Enduro to which a new Enduro was just announced for April 2018... so the plan is a 3.0/3.2L Opti powerhead on Scott Porta's exhaust mid adaptor and a 2.5L 15" mid with the fat shaft offshore LH sporty.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[rock]

Danger....In my opinion the 200xs is one of Mercury's best. Good power with lots of torque and fuel mileage beyond your imagination. The ProMax is also a great motor with fuel consumption beyond your imagination. The Eagle is a fairly heavy boat and I think the xs would make a better motor for that boat however either would work well. It depends a LOT on how you use your boat and what your main objectives are. The xs did not replace the Promax as an xs is a racing division Optimax and the Promax is not an Opti. My xs was on a 15" offshore mid so it was fairly loud but on a regular mid would be as quiet as any of them. Promax the same cuz the mid, for the most part, is where you get the sound. As far as the true horsepower rating they are like any other motor in that some are better than others. My xs would turn a 30 et on the limiter at 6500. I think the promax will turn more rpm but I don't know if it could have turned a 30. Good luck.

Rock

[David]

A 2002 200XS is a 2.5 litre direct injected engine from Mercury racing. Solid engine mounts, 6800 rpm, sportmaster, all good, and a strong 200 plus HP. Much better then a fishing 200. You could say it replaced the 225 Promax.

The direct injected engines burn a lot less gas. Merc calls them XS. If I bought an early optimal (XS) engine I think I would have the compressor and or bearings checked out/replaced or at least talk to someone knowledgeable. No direct knowledge, but my mechanic doesn't trust them. But he did buy a new 175XS this year.

To confuse things Mercury sells a 200 ProXS which is a 3 litre motor with only a 6000 rpm redline and a standard gearcase. There is also the current 200XS ROS which is a short shaft update of the 2002 engine.

[DangerNewb]

Thanks David and Rock. So the XS and Promax engines were offered at the same time for at least some of their history. Promax was fuel injected but not direct injection. I see the XS line is still offered from Mercury but I don't see Promax in the current line up.

Can anyone say what years the Promax engines were offered? What HP they were each offered in? Were they the same displacement/same block as the XS? Both solid motor mounts with sportmaster lowers?

Trying to determine if watching out for either / both is a good option. Thanks again.

[rock]

I am not a dealer so I don't know this for sure but my guess is you will only find direct injection or four stroke being manufactured due to the epa issues. Promax was offered in a 2.5 from 150 to 225. In 3.0 it went up to 300. As far as what mounts and lowers were offered I have no clue. I know the xs motors were made in both 2.5 and 3.2 configurations. That's all I got.

Rock

[David]

All the Promax motors had solid mounts. My old one has a CLE but eventually they changed to sportys.

There are fishing XS, Pro XS with stiffer mounts, and Mercury racing XS with solid mounts and Sportmasters. Too confusing for me. There are only two XS motors that will work on my boat so I only think about 2.

[DangerNewb]

Thanks Rock and David. So XS doesn't mean much. Have to ask lots of questions to make sure you know what you're looking at.

Re: Promax, I thought I had seen reference to 260 or 280hp?

More searching found this site. Ends in 1996 though. http://www.maxrules.com/models/Merc_model_files/HIPERF.html

[Todd D]

I would LOVE to find a resource of info to determine all the differences on just the 3.0L & 3.2L stuff. I have two 1998 300X Promax motors which pretty much nothing is interchangeable to any 2.5L stuff nor has much performance value other than being a heavier grunt ultimately for my Flats boat.

I also have two 3.0L 225 Optimax motors which I am learning are simply identical to a 250hp Opti with just the ECU being different and the RPM limits higher on the 250hp model.

What makes the 225/250hp Optis an "XS" model?

Will just swapping to a stroker 3.2L crank make a 225/250 motor into a 300XS with the proper reflash or ECU?

I am currently building my 21 Eliminator Daytona as a center-steer boat to run the 2018 Parker Enduro to which a new Enduro was just announced for April 2018... so the plan is a 3.0/3.2L Opti powerhead on Scott Porta's exhaust mid adaptor and a 2.5L 15" mid with the fat shaft offshore LH sporty.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

early EFI models with the dual ecu setup are very similar. 225/250/300 same block 225/250 same sleeves 300pm slightly different chamfer on the exhaust port.
built up to mid year 2001. However there's and exception... the 250xb. It was built from 2000-mid 2003. same block as above but different sleeves with out the compression relief slot on the top of the exhaust port (cat eye). A few different sets of head the best being the 300pm C-10 heads. Most of the 225's had 2 butterfly intakes until the end then they started getting the 4 butterfly like the 250/300's.

Late EFI are the ones with the Motorola box like a 300X. The blocks 200/225/250 are the same the sleeves are different in each HP. Ecus are different also. The best heads are the 300x models it the -30 part number next to the bottom spark plug hole. the 200/225/250 had the same intake and injectors 300x had different. other models had the same flywheel where the 300x has a light weight 12lbs version.

OptiMax models have both an early and late model version. The biggest difference in the consumer motors compared to the XS and Pro XS are not only the ignition system by the fuel system (injectors and regulators on the rails)

The 225 opti in not identical to the 250 opti! The block(not sleeves), rods, flywheel, reed plate, horn, alternator, starter are about it if you are referring to new style....

Sticking a 3.2L crank in a 225/250 will not yield a 300xs other things need to be modified just to fit. A standard consumer motors needs lots of changes. A 250xs is similar on the later model 250's with the 5 wire coils. Exhaust port chamfer is slightly higher on the 300. Change the crank, heads and ecu.....



Since you asked! My thoughts sell the other motors and just buy a 300xs. Why would you run a 2.5L sporty? A 3L/3.2L powerhead needs water volume, not pressure like the little pump from a 2.5 puts out.... If you look at Scotts prototypes on Nick's Shadow pirate DW32 you'll see 3L sportmasters.

[Todd D]

Thanks Rock and David. So XS doesn't mean much. Have to ask lots of questions to make sure you know what you're looking at.

Re: Promax, I thought I had seen reference to 260 or 280hp?

More searching found this site. Ends in 1996 though. http://www.maxrules.com/models/Merc_model_files/HIPERF.html

XS is supposed to mean it's the race version. it's more than just solid mounts. the main part of the powerhead is a higher air fuel pressure with stronger grey air injectors. the revlimiters are set higher, carbon reeds, and depending on the model higher compression motors. (different heads and pistons)

[David]

The 260 and 280s were different from the 225 Promax. More power, higher revving, no oil injection, rebuild at 100-130? hours. 260 had 16A charging, 280 was 40A. 16 isn't enough for a cottager like me.

XS is race version unless it's Pro XS.

[DangerNewb]

Coming back around to this thread. Getting the Seebold Ski Eagle w/out power this weekend. Considering an 02 200XS with fat shaft sportmaster shipped from out of the area. Also considering a 2.4 carbed fishing motor with higher compression heads, larger carbs, ROS mid and CLE lower. Obviously 2 different price points.

Are all the sportmasters fat shaft? The gear case looks larger than a through hub prop. Any issues with such a large gear case? Or, that's the way all of them are?

The 2.4 carbed motor is more local to me and much cheaper. Seller says it has about 20 hours since new pistons, rings, bearings etc. The 200XS is very low hours but not far off double the money with shipping.

Looks like Mercury only offers a 250XS now. Any thoughts on how the 200XS would compare. Guess I'm a little concerned if it is truly 200hp might not perform all that great on the Seebold. Seller says he was getting high 80's with a 225 promax on it. I'd like to see 80-85.

Thanks for any thoughts.

[rock]

If you boat a lot you will make up the extra coin in fuel savings with the xs. As stated earlier the xs will deliver way more torque than a non direct injected motor which makes a world of difference.

Rock

[David]

Older sporties were small shaft, they have been fat for a long time now. Some years ago I bought a used 225 Promax. Great motor. I did break the propshaft on the CLE and found that was common on old CLEs.

2.5L 200XS or Promax is the way to go. Unless of course your boat can handle the weight of a 3L

[1BadAction]

You guys are running into what almost all of us have at one time or another, there are no good single sources of information out there (that I know of anyways). A lot of old wives tales floating around about coated bore race motors, cooling, lower units, etc etc and a lot of good info scattered all over the internet, but nothing in a single place. You pretty much need to read and figure out the guys that run this stuff day in and day out, then listen to them. You can learn more at one boating event than you can in 6 months on the internet, so you may want to check one out also.

My advice is anything that you buy, make sure it's stock. Then you know it hasn't been assed up. Usually where there are bass boat guys you can get some decent deals on clean outboards.

[DangerNewb]

Thanks for the advice guys. Yes, I would prefer a nice stock xs or Promax in my local area. But, there's a 2.4 carb motor recently rebuilt with ROS mid and CLE gearcase listed close to me at a reasonable price. Considering picking it up. I know the carb motor won't make the torque of the fuel injected 2.5 engines but the seller says it runs his Mirage mid 90s. It has high compression heads and larger than stock carbs. I know it will suck gas but I only burn 10--15 gallons on my typical trip to the lake so it would take years to make up the difference in fuel. Yes. I know it's not stock and could be assed up as folks say but I've talked with the seller and he seems like a straight up guy. Says it was built by a good mechanic. Could be a way to satisfy my objective of getting into a 80 to 85 mph boat for the time being. My question is, can anyone comment on whether a Promax powerhead would bolt onto the ROS mid without too much trouble if I wanted to upgrade later? Later after I blow this one up! I realistically would put about 15 hours a year on it so it may run for a very long time for me. I play around on motocross bikes, street track bikes, mountain bikes etc. So boating is a once or twice a month thing for me. And I don't desire to run 100 mph, in a boat. Just have a little fun. Thanks.

[W2F a V-King]

I don't see why the PM 225 wouldn't bolt right on that mid. If the PM you get is stock, be sure to get the exhaust plates and tuner.

The 2.4 on a light V bottom will perform as good as the 2.5 with similar HP. The carb motors run as hard as the EFI motors, just a little cleaner maybe.

jus my .02

[Turborr]

If your boat can handle a 3 liter and you are on a budget buy a 250xs. If it cant handle a 3 liter than get a 200xs. Both are newer technology and reliable. You can get a scan tool for not too much coin to figure out any problems if necessary. Great hp and alot less fuel. Trust me...it is better to cry for a short time now than cry a long time later. Now, if you are a handy guy with tools, then an older promax will be a decent choice.

[hsbob]

there's a couple 2005 2.5 xs in the engine sales. i have 2 200xs and have alway wanted the 2.5 . its a 2.5l m otor and 3.0l LU. on a tunnle the 2.5 saw 105.

[flabum1017]

http://www.biggerhammer.net/mercury/

[DangerNewb]

http://www.biggerhammer.net/mercury/

New there's some reading material. Thanks.

[crawl]

http://www.biggerhammer.net/mercury/


Now thats the ticket!!! Exactly the stuff i was looking for. Thanks!

Why is this stuff not pinned to the top of the page? Im new. I see highlighted "Mercury tech" on some posts, but cant find the Mercury tech page through search? Do have to pay, or am i missing something?

[W2F a V-King]

Not related to a pay thing I don't believe, but donating via a paid subscription is encouraged here to help keep this the wonderful resource of information it is.

Not required, but if you want to click on the "Team Membership" tab in the menu line at the top.

[flabum1017]

Now thats the ticket!!! Exactly the stuff i was looking for. Thanks!

Why is this stuff not pinned to the top of the page? Im new. I see highlighted "Mercury tech" on some posts, but cant find the Mercury tech page through search? Do have to pay, or am i missing something?

There are no tech pages here, but a forum of many issues getting resolved. There are a few member-written information pages and plenty of links within many threads. You can search by typing in they type of engine and be prepared to read. By opening a thread like this one, you get plenty of answers and the more you ask, the more you will be informed.