Merc V-200 87´ deceased or not?

[bimmer1]

Hi all
I need some help to dertermine what is wrong inside my motor.
The story goes like this:

During my last ride the engine started making noise (like a blown bearing or something) and stopped. I wasn´t able to start the engine again. After being towed to shore I tried to locate what went wrong.

The engine won´t start now and the starter-motor can turn the engine 2 revolution before getting stuck. The Battery is ok and has turned the starter-motor fine until now. Keep pushing the ignition (starter-motor) will bring the crank past this "dead" point but on if I keep forcing the starter-motor on several times. When the crank gets past this "dead" spot the starter-motor will turn the crank 2 revolutions again before getting stuck again.
I hope this make some kind of sense, if not, please ask and I´ll try to supply you with further details.

What I want to know is:
Is this engine dead or not?
What causes the engine to get stuck after 2 revolutions?

Kind regards
Christian, Denmark

[rock]

You have more than likely stuck a piston. Pull the heads and quit trying to start it. You can only hurt it worse by turning it over.

Rock

[bimmer1]

You have more than likely stuck a piston. Pull the heads and quit trying to start it. You can only hurt it worse by turning it over.

Rock

Thanks for the advice

I´ll stop trying and then remove the heads for inspection of the bores.
After that I´ll post some pictures to get confirmation of the bores status and path forward.

Bimmer1

[rock]

Good luck.

[bimmer1]

Good luck.
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I´ve located the problem to left bank lower cylinder. The conrod bearing is trashed (pic 4) and small pieces of metal has unfortunately damaged both the piston and the cylinder wall. I am now in the process of disassembling the motor totally and it is going well so far. However, I can´t remove metalring between the flywheel and the crankshaft (pic 5+6). I need to remove that ring in order to remove the black part under that ring. First then can I remove the block and get to pistons, rods etc.
Hoping you can give me a bit of advice both in relation to removing the ring (pic 5+6) and maybe an idea of whether the block can be rebuild or needs a replacement. I asume that the conrod bearing, conrod (maybe) and piston can be replaced.

[kingsbiship]

Flywheel puller is needed to remove the hub... no need to remove the 8 bolts to remove the wheel, comes off with the hub!

[rock]

If that bearing is as bad as it looks you are going to need a piston, bearing, rod and crankshaft at a minimum and yes the block can be fixed. If you have a lifting ring you can drill the center and tap it then run a bolt down onto the end of the crank to separate flywheel hub. As stated above you could have left the flywheel in one piece. Good luck.

Rock

[bimmer1]

If that bearing is as bad as it looks you are going to need a piston, bearing, rod and crankshaft at a minimum and yes the block can be fixed. If you have a lifting ring you can drill the center and tap it then run a bolt down onto the end of the crank to separate flywheel hub. As stated above you could have left the flywheel in one piece. Good luck.

Rock

Thanks a lot for your help and prompt respons.
It´s a great help having the option to ask an expert for advice in this way.
I´ll get back when block is of and the internals are inspected.
Regards

[bimmer1]

Thanks a lot for your help and prompt respons.
It´s a great help having the option to ask an expert for advice in this way.
I´ll get back when block is of and the internals are inspected.
Regards

I´m having a hard time seperating the Block from the Mid section and would like to ask if there is any tips end trix for this operation.
I´ve removed the 10 Nuts that holds the Block together with the Mid section but the Block is pretty much stuck.
I´m thinking of putting back the Flywheel and the try to get one of those lifting eyes that fits on top/inside the Flywheel. Is that the way or is there another way to loosen the Block from the Mid section?

Regards

[Dave S]

The long studs get stuck. I use a very flat wedge starting at .005 and going to 1/8 inch.heat the stud area and bang the wedges. A part of leaf spring if ya can't get wedge....

[roadkill636]

Also .Get the lower unit off 1st

[bimmer1]

Also .Get the lower unit off 1st

The lower unit is of. I´ll try with a wedge between the Block and the Mid section I guess?

[bimmer1]

Now the motor is pretty much disassembled and I have inspected the Block, Rod, crank, Piston etc.
The piston has small scratches on the sides and some significant nicks on top. The Crank and rod has some damage but I can´t tell if it is possible to repair (if necessary) or not.
The Rod bearing is totally gone. The block has a significant scratch and I hope that the block can somehow be repaired.

Questions:

Which parts needs to be repaired and is it realistic to re-fit some of the old parts?
I know for sure that I need a piston and rings but what about the conrod?
For sure I need a new bearing (the old one isn´t there anymore.
Can the crank be repaired?

I´m planing to replace all piston rings since I have all pistons out of the motor now, good idea?
Is there anything else that you guys would consider replacing now that I have the motor disassebled at this level?

Pictures of the involved parts attached below.

I hope you guys will take a look at the pictures and let me know what you think. Thanks

3919153919163919173919183919193919203919213919223919233919243919253919263919273919283919293919303919 31

[Capt.Insane-o]

You need a crank, rod, piston and a sleeve...plus the required rebuild parts.

[bimmer1]

Crank, piston, rod makes sense but I´m not sure how to get the block re sleeved. Are you refering to the chrome bore and can the chrome bore/sleeve be replaced?

[rock]

Have it sleeved with an iron sleeve then run appropriate rings. They are different than chrome bore rings.

Rock

[bimmer1]

Have it sleeved with an iron sleeve then run appropriate rings. They are different than chrome bore rings.

Rock

Went to the shop today and they can sleeve the bore but asked me to get the appropriate sleeve. So I need to get a steel sleeve but it seems to me that there is a lot of different measures on these steel sleeves. I really don´t want to order a sleeve with the wrong dimensions. Can you direct me to what measure the sleeve should be and do you have any recommendation regarding where to bye?

My plan (correct me if I´m wrong) is to get a sleeve the same size as stock bore. Even though the shop told me that they can make the sleeve fit whatever measure I want. What is the standard bore diameter?

Bimmer1

[mn808gade]

instead of getting sleeve/ordering pistonring set/finding rebore shop close to you,and maybe a problem/I would look for suggestions to ship block to a shop that is well versed in these movements.i'm sure these s&f guys will advise,this is a great site..s&fly for outboards,Dootalk for sleds-th

[rock]

The Pro Marine number for an Advanced sleeve is 1151SA. It fits the 86 and 87 2.4 200. Does not look like LA Sleeve offers an alternative. Make sure you machinist understand interference fit and get the exact specs from the sleeve manufacturer. I think it is .004 but do NOT go by my guess. Good luck.

Rock

[Fishinmymission]

Interesting Failure that you have there. You can see lines on the crankshaft that outline each of the bearing rollers. When we see this on aircrafts it can almost always be traced to the aircraft sitting for an extended period of time which allows oil to leave the bearing and water to cohesively stick between the roller and shaft. I can't look at your crankshaft with a microscope but I'm betting the lines are tiny corrosion pits which created stress risers for spalling. This could have happened recently or a long time ago but it likely lead to the bearing failure at that interface. Sometimes you can find a broken seal or way water got into the area, sometimes it can simply be from condensation when sitting for long periods of time. Either way that one set of bearing outlined corrosion pits formed over a long period of time while that bearing was not moved.

[bimmer1]

Interesting observation there. I´ve had the motor for 2 years but since the motor is a ´87-88 model it is a bit hard to tell what life the motor has had so far. But in the future, when I hopefully get the motor rebuild, I´ll try not to leave the motor sittting for longer periods.

[kingsbiship]

I think it's time to look for another power head! Probably save ya money... definitely save time and anguish!

[bimmer1]

I think it's time to look for another power head! Probably save ya money... definitely save time and anguish!

I´ve thought the same but I´m not sure where to look for a rebuild powerhead. On Ebay they sell for 4000$ - 5000$ plus shipping to Europe which makes it a lot less expensive to try and replace the damaged parts (rebuild it myself).
However if any of you guys can tell me where to get a rebuild powerhead at a fair price please let me know. I´m aware that a rebuild powerhead will cost me more than parts for rebuild alone but thats fair enough.
Any suggestions are welcome.

[Capt.Insane-o]

I've got 2 fresh mid 90's 2.5 200 efi or carb

[bimmer1]

Interesting, but when we are talking powerheads, I guess thats only the Block and internals right? I mean, how much is included with these motors/powerheads you have up for sale?
Sorry for all my questions but I need to get into the lanquage/terms so that I understand exactly what we are talking about.

[wrechin2]

You bore the one cylinder and install a steel sleeve in it. Use the same piston as other cylinders but the rings are different. Cost to replate is over 1k sleeve is usually around $275-$350. Is a very common practice. Do them quite often. I hope this helps.

[wrechin2]

Sorry..overlooked other responses....

[bimmer1]

It does help, thanks for your reply. All ideas and advice is welcome :)

[wrechin2]

I will be making some 2.4 sleeves in a few weeks for a project. The ones I make are short and a lot easier tok finish out. I can send one to you if you pay shipping if you already haven't got one.

[Capt.Insane-o]

I have 4 2.4 sleeves that have been under my bench forever. I was going to post them for shipping costs.

[wrechin2]

I have 4 2.4 sleeves that have been under my bench forever. I was going to post them for shipping costs.

Like I said it would be a few weeks before I set up to cut more sleeves. Yours would be quicker and same cost.:thumbsup:

[bimmer1]

@Capt.Insane-o This is fantastic, that´s an offer I won´t let pass. I would really much like to have those 2.4 sleeves. I live in Denmark so I guess the shipping costs will be a bit costly but that doesn´t matter.
Let me know what the shipping cost will be and I´ll wire the amount (Paypal or Bank transfer). Can I send you my adress in a PM (Capt.Insane-o)?

Christian Terp

[Capt.Insane-o]

sure.

[bimmer1]

Like I said it would be a few weeks before I set up to cut more sleeves. Yours would be quicker and same cost.:thumbsup:

Thanks for the offer anyway. I´ll try to keep this motor running for many years to come It´s good to know that I can get 2.4 sleeves from S&F´s members :)

[wrechin2]

No problem. Glad Capt was able to hook you up.

[Capt.Insane-o]

Actually I found five

393683

[bimmer1]

Actually I found five

393683

Thanks, even better. Guess I´ll consider having one of the other bores sleeved as well. It has a small scratch but nothing like the Port Bottom Bore.
Let me know when you have the shipping cost. :thumbsup:

[Da Bull]

Another happy member.

[gmacrae]

Cool thread, you've got a couple of super good guys looking after ya bimmer1! I'd be keen to see how your rebuild goes if you can keep the pics coming

[Capt.Insane-o]

Well I failed for you here. So I was dusting these off and wrapping them and looked at of the tops

394092

I don't think. 030 is going to work for you so I can refund the money for them or if you want a set of new pistons or other parts I'll get them for you. Good thing I caught that because Denmark is a pretty long ways for a mistake like that.
394093

[bimmer1]

gmacrae I couldn´t agree more. I´ve been adviced in a way that I´ve never experienced before, Thanks :). I´ll post some pics when this rebuild gets moving.

[bimmer1]

That´all right. Thanks for finding the pistons anyway.
Well, I actually only have one bad piston+rod, so if you can get me one that fits it will be much appreciated. I don´t know about the price for a new set of pistons+rods, will the $200 cover that (sorry, but I don´t really know what a set of pistons cost)?
I also need a crank, piston rings (4 sets for Chrome and 2 sets for steel), rod bearing set for the blown rod+piston, and depending on how the new piston/pistons is supplied I also need a new rod.
So I´m not sure how far the $200 will get me with the above :rolleyes:

Bimmer1


Well I failed for you here. So I was dusting these off and wrapping them and looked at of the tops

394092

I don't think. 030 is going to work for you so I can refund the money for them or if you want a set of new pistons or other parts I'll get them for you. Good thing I caught that because Denmark is a pretty long ways for a mistake like that.
394093

[Capt.Insane-o]

Crank will be a toughie, I've got boxes of rods, gaskets,rod bolts and bearings, probably reeds. Well I'll get on it then.

[bimmer1]

Since I´m bit of a rookie, can you tell me what 030 on the pistons means? I really want to learn what these numbers indicates.

[W2F a V-King]

.030 over stock size.

[wrechin2]

It means the steel cylinder has been bored .030 (30 thousands) over the stock bore size. This is done when the block has damage. So the cylinder is bored and a oversized piston is installed.

[bimmer1]

It´s beginning to clear up for this rebuild. Sleeves, Gaskets, Piston, Rod etc. from US (thansk again Capt.insane-o), Pistons rings from the UK, Crank (at last) from Sweden. So the only thing missing now is to get the Block to the shop to have its to worn cylinders resleeved. Hopefully the reassembly will beginas soon as the Block has been resleeved. Pics below. Just went through this Thread and that reminded me to thank all of you for your help and replys.

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[bimmer1]

I finally got the motor assembled over a year after the breakdown. It was the moment of truth when the key was turned for the first time but what a relief when the motor jumped into life again. The whole neighborhood was covered in nice blue two stroke smoke. I forgot to take pics or movies of the scene but believe me, it was sensational. Thanks to you all for helping me with parts and advice.

One thing that remains is the breakin periode. The motor got new rings on all pistons/2'sleeves etc. Whats the advice regarding the breakin periode?

[rock]

Most important is to take your time and don't rush the process. The longer you take to break it in the longer it will last. I like to warm motor up then cool it down and repeat this cycle several times before actually using it. Run double oil the first tank keeping the rpm under 3500 varying rpm level. After that avoid long open throttle periods for another tank or two. After that have fun.

Rock

[bimmer1]

Thanks for your reply.
Seems that I´m on the right track here. The innitial startup only lastet for 2-3 mins since I wanted to spare the neighboors from being choked in nice blue smoke. However the motor got warm and didn´t get above 1500 rpm during the start up run. I actuallly did ad some extra oil to the tank since I remembered that part from when I first did the break in on my first new 25 HP Merc.
Thanks for your help and the above advice.