E-TEC Motors

[wideglide55]

Ok guys I need some opinions and facts about etec motors,I ran omc for many years but got tired of rowing back and went over to the dark side.Now my nephew is considering an E-Tec for his boat and I would like to know if its a good or bad idea,I have never met anyone who owned one.

[mjw930]

Depending on the application and considering their extended warranty offers I'd own one in a hot second. The engineering and innovation on the G2's is exceptional IMHO and the couple people I know who have them love them.

However, they aren't the right ticket for a surfacing application but that's about the only application I can come up with where I wouldn't buy one which is why I don't own one today.

[johnboy 88 vegas]

I asked the owner one of the dealers around me (that is not close by at all) what he thought of them and he said "I still have mixed feelings about them" and left it at that. We don't even have real Evinrude dealer here in Savannah any more so that should probably tell you something. From a mechanics standpoint I would say to buy what ever brand that have good dealers with good service close by. There are alot of shady outboard dealers out there so ask around to see what shop people are using before buying anything.

[mjw930]

Dealer availability is absolutely important. I'm luck enough to have 10 dealers within 50 miles, 5 of them Platinum Certified but if you live where isn't a dealer or only one dealer then that would absolutely weigh on the decision.

[JPEROG]

Depending on the application and considering their extended warranty offers I'd own one in a hot second. The engineering and innovation on the G2's is exceptional IMHO and the couple people I know who have them love them.

However, they aren't the right ticket for a surfacing application but that's about the only application I can come up with where I wouldn't buy one which is why I don't own one today.

Mark,

I will introduce you to the Lake Tarpon guys "Kevin (the wrench), Shawn (the welder), Johnny (the construction supervisor), and Ryan the skater boy-all run OMC stuff with sportmasters. There is also Gordon and his modified crew of white creations. You can only be around them for a couple hours a day or they might convince you to jump the fence-

Joe

[johnboy 88 vegas]

Let me say this..Etecs have a bad rep around here for blowing up but there is probably a reason for it. The average boater thinks they can let a 2 stroke motor sit for a year and fire it up with no problems...obviously not so as any 2 stroke will tear up when starved for fuel b/c of the build up from sitting for long periods of time. Four strokes are much more tolerable to old gas in comparison. I don't like Etecs myself but I find it hard to believe they tear up b/c of their design instead of operator error.

[mjw930]

Mark,

I will introduce you to the Lake Tarpon guys "Kevin (the wrench), Shawn (the welder), Johnny (the construction supervisor), and Ryan the skater boy-all run OMC stuff with sportmasters. There is also Gordon and his modified crew of white creations. You can only be around them for a couple hours a day or they might convince you to jump the fence-

Joe

Sounds intriguing and I have no fence to jump, I've only owned a Mercury Outboard for 6 months but let get through the warranty period before you tempt me :cheers:

[wideglide55]

I have owned 4 Mercury motors in my life so far,a 76/115,an 86 150,a 300 Promax and a 2001/ 200,all of which I ran the living **** out for years and never had one of them blow up or strand me,also none of them ever had any warranty and were used before I got them,just saying

[JPEROG]

Sounds intriguing and I have no fence to jump, I've only owned a Mercury Outboard for 6 months but let get through the warranty period before you tempt me :cheers:

You are on the right side now....buy it and bolt it--none of the gearing issues and super low limiters etc.

Joe

[mjw930]

You are on the right side now....buy it and bolt it--none of the gearing issues and super low limiters etc.

Joe

EXACTLY! My mantra these days is "turn key boating". Been there, done that with custom, modified equipment and have the hole in my checkbook to prove it ;)

[Markus]

Ok guys I need some opinions and facts about etec motors,I ran omc for many years but got tired of rowing back and went over to the dark side.Now my nephew is considering an E-Tec for his boat and I would like to know if its a good or bad idea,I have never met anyone who owned one.

Check a bass boating board and see how many posts there are from owners who have problems with them. That is usually a good way of understanding how they stand up when abused by regular boaters.

From what I can tell, though, it is a great engine, as opposed to the junk the former owner of the Evinrude brand sold to people who did not know better, which you correctly point out.

However, Mercury, Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda, and Tohatsu also offer great engines these days. Consequently, an Evinrude that does not break all the time is not really distinctive in any way, except perhaps through generous warranty and service periods, and the fact that BRP has combined the Evinrude brand name with non-junk, which is novel. So they don't sell a whole lot of them.

[dgscroggs]

I've owned mercs all my life and still have one on my other boat, bought a boat with an etec on it and have been pretty impressed by it so far jmo

[Greg G]

I would ask your Nephew to locate the closest dealer. IMO with whatever you buy, having a good dealer less than 30 minutes away is where the decision starts.

[hydroo]

I purchased brand new 2010 250 HO

During that time

Top engine mounting bolts sheared off twice.
Two Starters failed
Gear case was replaced by BRP before it failed.
Then the replacement gear case failed.

It was all covered under warrantee

Engine was on a Stoker with a very easy life, tubing and skiing

I now have a Yamaha 250 SHO four stroke
There is no way I would go BRP again!!!!

[wtsjr66]

Not a performance boat, but its time to re-power my 1820 ActionCraft flats boat, I currently has a 60 degree Johnson that has been a great engine. For plug and play ease I would love to put a 150HO Etec on it. However the new 3.0 150 mercury four stroke is nearly 2,000.00 cheaper, not much heavier and quiet, not to mention better range(which is my issue with the OMC) and better resale. Most of the failures I have seen around here on the Etecs have been poor re-powers with old fuel tanks,fuel lines that are in poor conditions and crappy workmanship on the rigging technician in general.

[Markus]

I purchased brand new 2010 250 HO

During that time

Top engine mounting bolts sheared off twice.
Two Starters failed
Gear case was replaced by BRP before it failed.
Then the replacement gear case failed.


Well, it appears that BRP is respecting the storied heritage of the Evinrude brand, after all...

[mjw930]

Honestly, you can search and find stories like this for any brands product so it really comes down to what you're comfortable with.

[dgscroggs]

Like mjw930 said I've heard horror stories about every outboard there is there's a bad apple in every bunch luckil I've never got one I also have a buddy with an action craft 18' flats and just re powered with a Suzuki 150 four stroke and luvs it so far if ur looking for range I would go with a four stroke

[H2OPERF]

Agree...They all have issues.. I had twin 08 200 HO's on a contender no issues in 400hrs, I have an 07 250 on my bay boat has around 1700 hrs now have changed the lift fuel pump and thats about it... Don't know why people have to comment on stuff they have never touched before.... After reading this i did a search on a bass site for blown power head and the first thing that came up was a blown yamaha sho with 81hrs then another blown at 35hrs Just sayin since someone had to talk sh... Dave

[zstyle]

I manage a boat dealership, stay away from the G2s. Talk to the guys at the FLW tournaments about how many of those things are in for service everyday compared to the Mercs.

[racer]

I was at 2 tournaments in a factory support trailer in the last 6 months, they all had boats at them. I worked on one that hit the rocks so hard that prop blades were nearly gone and drive shaft twisted. At these tournament if an engine seems off 50 rpm they want them looked at because they generally dont have to pay anything. I also think each manufacturer has some HP engines that are better than say another from same company.

[rude tim]

I was at 2 tournaments in a factory support trailer in the last 6 months, they all had boats at them. I worked on one that hit the rocks so hard that prop blades were nearly gone and drive shaft twisted. At these tournament if an engine seems off 50 rpm they want them looked at because they generally dont have to pay anything. I also think each manufacturer has some HP engines that are better than say another from same company.


Well said Al.
The facts are some people can break anything, does not matter what brand it is.

[Markus]

I manage a boat dealership, stay away from the G2s. Talk to the guys at the FLW tournaments about how many of those things are in for service everyday compared to the Mercs.

What are the problems?

[Markus]

After reading this i did a search on a bass site for blown power head and the first thing that came up was a blown yamaha sho with 81hrs then another blown at 35hrs Just sayin since someone had to talk sh... Dave

That's more in line with what I would have expected...

[H2OPERF]

I manage a boat dealership, stay away from the G2s. Talk to the guys at the FLW tournaments about how many of those things are in for service everyday compared to the Mercs.
Again....What do you sell in the queen city... All the merc guys bitch about the rudes and yamaha folks dont tell anyone when theirs goes to the shop for a service ..(powerhead)... I have a very good friend who's a BRP/Evinrude dealer i ask him and his guys all the time how are the G2's holding up and with all that hes sold he hasn't had one powerhead to warranty yet. The new small block g2s have amazing power... Dave

[g-guap]

Personally I love my 250 ho etec great fuel economy tons of power and torque (ran over 80 in velocity with a 30p on the Rev limiter ) on my last boat. I currently putting together twins for one of the new SEB edge 22' that Todd is building.. the only weak links i feel like are the lowers (factory) and mounts , but I'm gonna run 3l sportys and solid mounts. So with all I have have seen and experience if your gonna use them for a performance application I would just do those 2 things and you should be fine.. and baja200merk (kevin) is definitely the guys to reach to if you have any questions or if you want a great motor built

[zstyle]

Again....What do you sell in the queen city... All the merc guys bitch about the rudes and yamaha folks dont tell anyone when theirs goes to the shop for a service ..(powerhead)... I have a very good friend who's a BRP/Evinrude dealer i ask him and his guys all the time how are the G2's holding up and with all that hes sold he hasn't had one powerhead to warranty yet. The new small block g2s have amazing power... Dave

We are dealers for and are certified to service the following Mercruiser, Mercury, Yamaha, and Evinrude/ BRP. Unfortunately the first 250 G2 I sold did have a power head replacement very early on, then it got a lower unit, then it got shift actuator, had other littler issues that wouldn't allow the motor to run, and then the guy had so much issues Evinrude gave him a credit on his next boat with a 250 G2. Then that thing had another slew of issues such as another actuator, exhaust temp sensor had an issue when water hit it would go into limp mode, had water perssure sensor somehow let water pass through it and filled the plug up causing a dead short, and the trim pump failed on this one as well at a FLW tournament that stopped the guy from getting a check. The next boat he ordered he went to the Pro XS, hasn't had any issues.

Haven't had any issues out of the 150 G2 and it does make great power so I will give you that.

[zstyle]

What are the problems?

One one motor alone I have seen power head, lower unit, shift actuator, and controls.

[David]

We are in season 5 with a 115 HO. Could not be happier. I use it way more than my 225 Promax and it burns much less fuel in a season and sips oil. It ran 64 on a 16' Baja and now runs 47 on a 19' J Craft (outboard water ski boat). Easily pulls out a 200 lb slalom skier. No repairs ever.

My rigging guy hates it. Says its much harder to rig than an Optimax.

[Bodhi]

There's not too many people down here that own etecs to talk to, the marina I keep my boat at is a dealer for yami, merc ,and rude. He can't sell an etec with a new boat, people request a different power.
Whether you want to race or just get the family to the beach...hang black on the back

[kbirdmon]

Well we only get to run at 60Mph in Class 7 but that's 60 through any kind of water in front of you and 60 through turns in that very same water. In two seasons I never did NOT finish a race meaning I was never towed in and never broke. caught a few limp modes or guardian modes from water in fuel but once I figured that out w the vent on side of hull back catching water into tank at 60 and rough water never even saw that again. Boat runs amazing in anything and motor has so much torque its incredible. Only thing I wish is I could get maybe another 500 rpms out of this thing as it feels like it pulls like a BEAST to 6000 rpms But because the limiter is 6100 that's all she wrote hitting limiter slows you down so we stay under that mark.
ZERO Complaints.
ZERO Breaks
Big power from a motor you need to look at tach to see if its running under 3000 so quiet Sips fuel and really doesn't burn a ton of oil either.

No Break in
Incredible warranty
Whats not to like??

[pcrussell50]

At these tournament if an engine seems off 50 rpm they want them looked at because they generally dont have to pay anything. I also think each manufacturer has some HP engines that are better than say another from same company.

Hi Al. We're missing you out here in SoCal, but I suppose it's the easter's turn to have a crack at you. How's John these days?

Anyway, it's interesting what you just said about how some engines are better than others from the same company, because my father in law was visiting the other day and saying the same thing. He was huge national star in pro bass fishing in the 80's/90's, enough so that he was full sponsored boats motors trucks hotels air fare all that stuff and made a full time living doing it. He said that his contact with Mercury, the one who selected his free motors, would do compression and leakdown checks and maybe even DVA checks on the electronics on brand new motors and choose the ones with the less than 1 psi compression differences, highest compression, lowest leakdown, etc... They seemed to think it was worth the trouble and made a difference.

Anywhow hoping all is well, and you are missed out here.

-Peter

[racer]

Peter all is well, dad is also doing fine. Thanks for asking. At times I miss Ca and going to spend October in Socal and Az.

What you mention about engine is true, what I was really referring to is one manufacturers 70 might be better than their 90 while others might be 115 to 150.

[Markus]

Peter all is well, dad is also doing fine. Thanks for asking. At times I miss Ca and going to spend October in Socal and Az.

What you mention about engine is true, what I was really referring to is one manufacturers 70 might be better than their 90 while others might be 115 to 150.

Like the OMC Eagle, the Yamaha V8 and the Mercury 115-125 4 cyl being the black sheep of their families?

[Greg G]

My .02 is that all available outboards are way more of a PITA than they should be. They all break. I've never been able to understand why the hell this is the case.

[FMP]

Like the OMC Eagle, the Yamaha V8 and the Mercury 115-125 4 cyl being the black sheep of their families?

I like the 125 four cyl

[Markus]

I like the 125 four cyl

You and about five other guys... :)

[Capt.Insane-o]

Me too, it was a great fishing and waterski motor.

[FMP]

Four carb, big ci, cool ex tuning.

[Markus]

Me too, it was a great fishing and waterski motor.

Then we just need to find the four other guys...

[Markus]

Four carb, big ci, cool ex tuning.

The Yamaha V4 had four carbs, big ci, could be tuned in any way you wanted, had removable cylinder heads and could be spun 2000 rpm higher...

[FMP]

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US4484442-1.png
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US4484442-2.png

[FMP]

Exhaust system for four cylinder two-cycle engines
US 4484442 A
Abstract
A four cylinder, two-cycle engine (10) has an exhaust system formed in a die-cast cylinder block. The exhaust system includes four legs (25) connected to the exhaust ports (23) of the cylinders (12). The upper two legs join together, as do the lower two legs to form two exhaust branches (26) connected by an exhaust trunk (27). An exhaust outlet passage (28) connected to the trunk (27) to provide an outlet for exhaust gases. The exhaust system is formed to lie in a plane on the exhaust side of the cylinder block (16).


Images(3)
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/thumbnails/pages/US4484442-1.png (https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US4484442-1.png)


https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/thumbnails/pages/US4484442-2.png (https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US4484442-2.png)


https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/thumbnails/pages/US4484442-3.png (https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US4484442-3.png)






Claims(11)
I claim: 1. A two-cycle, in-line engine comprising:(A) a cylinder block having:(1) four horizontal cylinders arranged in a vertical bank,
(2) four vertically spaced exhaust ports in communication with said cylinders on a first side of said bank,
(3) an exhaust cavity formed generally in a plane parallel to the plane of said cylinder bank and open on said first side of said bank, said exhaust cavity including:(a) a vertically extending exhaust trunk on one side of said exhaust ports,
(b) four exhaust legs, each connected to one of said exhaust ports, the upper two of said legs joining together and the lower two of said legs joining together on the side of said exhaust ports opposite said trunk,
(c) upper and lower exhaust branches, said upper branch connecting the junction of said upper two legs with said exhaust trunk and said lower branch connecting the junction of said lower two legs with said exhaust trunks, and


(B) an exhaust manifold cover attached to said cylinder block on said first side to form with said exhaust cavity an exhaust manifold.



2. The engine defined in claim 1 wherein said exhaust legs are all of approximately equal length.


3. The engine defined in claim 2 wherein said upper and lower exhaust branches are equal in length.


4. The engine defined in claim 3 wherein said exhaust cavity further comprises an exhaust outlet passage connected to said exhaust trunk.


5. The engine defined in claim 4 wherein said exhaust outlet passage is connected to the lower end of said exhaust trunk.


6. The engine defined in claim 5 wherein said exhaust outlet passage includes a vertically extending passage aligned with said exhaust trunk.


7. The engine defined in claim 6 wherein said vertically extending passage is open to discharge exhaust gas through the bottom of said cylinder block.


8. The engine defined in claim 7 wherein said exhaust cavity has a generally uniform depth.


9. The engine defined in claim 8 further comprising an exhaust gas pipe attached to the bottom of said cylinder block to receive exhaust gas from said exhaust gas outlet.


10. The engine defined in claim 1 further comprising:(C) a water jacket cover attached to said exhaust manifold cover to form a cooling jacket over the external surface of said manifold cover.



11. The engine defined in claim 8 wherein said cylinder block further includes a water cooling passage and said manifold cover includes openings connecting said water passage with said cooling jacket.





Description
DESCRIPTION 1. Technical Field
This invention relates to internal combustion engines and particularly to exhaust systems for a four cylinder two-cycle engine.
2. Background Art
In general, it is known to use the pressure waves arising in the exhaust system of multi-cylinder two-cycle engines to assist in scavenging and charging the cylinders. Such systems have been proposed for four cylinder in-line engines, as for example, in U.S. Pat. No. 3,692,006, though the general principles of such exhaust systems are known, prior four cylinder in-line engines requiring compact packaging, such as outboard motors, have not used the tuned systems apparently because of the difficulty of packaging the tuned exhaust system compactly and in a manner allowing the external surfaces of the exhaust system to be water cooled.
DISCLOSURE OF INVENTION The invention provides a four cylinder, in-line, two-cycle engine having an exhaust system which is both highly efficient in operation, compactly packaged, and readily manufactured.
The engine of the invention includes four cylinders arranged in a vertical bank. Each cylinder has an exhaust port, with all of the exhaust ports placed on the same side of the cylinder bank. An exhaust cavity is formed in the cylinder block on the same side as the exhaust ports and lies generally in a plane parallel to the plane of the cylinder block. This exhaust cavity includes a vertically extending trunk on one side of the exhaust ports, four exhaust legs, each connected to one of the exhaust ports. The two upper legs join together, as do the two lower legs, with their junctions connected by an upper and a lower exhaust branch, respectively, to the exhaust trunk. The exhaust cavity is formed to be open on the side facing away from the cylinder bank, and is closed on that side by an exhaust manifold cover to form an exhaust manifold. The engine thus formed provides an effective exhaust system which occupies a minimum of space along the side of the engine.
Preferably an exhaust outlet is also formed by the exhaust cavity to extend downwardly from the exhaust trunk. An exhaust gas pipe can be attached to the bottom of the cylinder block to receive the exhaust gas from the exhaust outlet.
The invention thus provides a two-cycle, four cylinder engine which has an exhaust system formed substantially by the cylinder block. The exhaust system thus can be readily water cooled and is suitable for such applications as the powerhead of an outboard motor.
BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE DRAWINGS FIG. 1 is an exploded view, partially in section, of an outboard motor incorporating features of the invention.
FIG. 2 is a view in elevation of the cylinder block of FIG. 1.
FIG. 3 is a sectional view taken along line 3--3 of FIG. 2 with the exhaust cavity covers in place.
FIG. 4 is a sectional view along line 4--4 of FIG. 2.
FIG. 5 is a sectional view along line 5--5 of FIG. 2.
BEST MODE FOR CARRYING OUT THE INVENTION Referring to the drawings, a two-cycle, four cylinder, in-line engine 10 supported on the drive shaft housing 11 of an outboard motor is illustrated. The engine 10 has four cylinders 12 arranged in a vertical bank with a piston, not illustrated, mounted in each cylinder 12. The pistons are connected by connecting rods to drive a crankshaft having four crank pins angularly spaced at 90° intervals. The crankshaft is connected by a drive shaft 13 to drive a propeller at the lower end of the drive shaft housing 11. The drive shaft housing 11 also includes an exhaust gas passage 14 for receiving exhaust gases from the engine 10 and discharging them below the surface of the water, preferably through the hub of the propeller, and a water passage 15 for supplying cooling water to the engine.
The engine 10 is a crankcase compression type having a separate crankcase compartment for each cylinder 12 formed by the crankcase end of the cylinder block 16, the intake manifold casting 17, and the crankshaft. The air-fuel charge provided by the carburetors 18 is compressed in the crankcase compartments andtransferred to the cylinders 12 by a loop charging system using piston controlled ports to open and close the transfer passages, as is well known in the art. An ignition system, not illustrated, supplies appropriately timed electrical pulses to fire one of the sparkplugs 19, 20, 21, 22 at every 90° of rotation of the crankshaft. The sparkplugs are arranged to fire in the order 19-21-20-22, though for the purposes of the present invention, it would be equally satisfactory to have them fire in the order 19-22-20-21. Following each piston power stroke, an exhaust port 23 in each cylinder wall is opened by the piston to discharge the exhaust gases into the tuned exhaust system formed in the exhaust side of the engine cylinder block 16.
The tuned exhaust system, formed by the cylinder block 16 and the exhaust manifold cover 24, includes four equal length legs 25, one extending from each of the exhaust ports 23. The upper and lower pair of legs 25 each join to form two exhaust branches 26, also of equal length. The two branches 26 are joined by an exhaust trunk 27. Since the engine fires in an order alternating between one of the upper pair of cylinders and one of the lower pair of cylinders, the exhaust pressure pulses arising when an exhaust port 23 is opened will always have the same distance to travel to reach the exhaust port 23 of the cylinder next to be charged. With the engine operating in the design high speed range, the positive pressure pulse arrives at the cylinder being charged just prior to closure of the exhaust port to provide a supercharging effect.
The tuned exhaust system also includes an exhaust outlet passage 28 connected to the lower end of the exhaust trunk 27 and an exhaust pipe 29 extending down from the lower end of the exhaust outlet passage 28 into the drive shaft housing 11. When a positive pressure or compression wave from one of the exhaust ports 23 arrives at the end of the exhaust pipe 29, a negative pressure or rarefaction wave is reflected back up the exhaust pipe 29. The length of the exhaust pipe 29 is designed to cause the rarefaction wave to reach the originating exhaust port when the piston in the corresponding cylinder is approximately at bottom dead center with the engine operating in the design high speed range. The rarefaction wave thus aids in scavenging the cylinder of exhaust gases. Because the exhaust outlet passage 28 connects to the bottom of the exhaust trunk 27, the effective length of the exhaust pipe is greater for the upper pair of cylinders than for the lower pair. Thus the lower cylinders will be optimally tuned at an engine speed somewhat higher than that for the upper cylinders.
The exhaust system is arranged to be substantially defined by a cavity formed in the exhaust side of the die-cast cylinder block 16 with the manifold cover 24 completing the passageways. The cavity includes the upper and lower pair of legs 25, one leg connecting to the exhaust port 23 of each cylinder 12. Each pair of exhaust legs extend out from the exhaust ports 23, merging together and turning toward the forward or crankcase end of the cylinder block to partially form the pair of exhaust branches 26. The exhaust branches 26 turn upward and toward the rear or head end of the cylinder block and are joined by the exhaust 27 trunk extending vertically at the rear of the cylinder block 16. The exhaust outlet 28 connects to the bottom end of the trunk 27 and provides a passage exiting through the bottom of the cylinder block 16. The exhaust branches 26, the exhaust trunk 27, and the exhaust outlet 28 are all substantially the same depth. All of the corners in the system are smoothly rounded to provide an efficient flow path for the exhaust gases. The exhaust cavity is formed by the exhaust side die which is withdrawn in a direction perpendicular to the plane of the cylinders and by the bottom die which is withdrawn downward. Cooling cavities 30, also formed by the exhaust side die, surround the exhaust cavity and fill the loops formed by the exhaust passage to provide water cooling and prevent overheating of any portion of the cylinder block 16.
The exhaust cavity is closed by the exhaust manifold cover 24 attached by bolts to the flat, machined surface on the exhaust side of the cylinder block 16. The manifold cover 24 includes a shallow channel mating with the exhaust cavity in the cylinder block 16 to form the exhaust manifold. Projections 31 and 32 formed on the manifold cover extend into the portions of the cavity forming the four legs 25 of the manifold to smoothly turn the exhaust flow from the exhaust ports 23.
The manifold cover 24 also serves to close the water cooling cavities 30 formed in the cylinder block 16. A water jacket cover 33 is attached on the outside of the manifold cover 24 by the same bolts attaching the manifold cover to the cylinder block 16. A series of holes 34 through the manifold cover provides flow paths for the cooling water to assure water flow over essentially all of the external surfaces of the exhaust manifold.

[FMP]

You and about five other guys... :)

Make it six

[racer]

The eagle are a good engine.

[Capt.Insane-o]

I've always wanted to dig around inside a v6 eagle motor. The porting appears pretty diminutive but I've never had the time to really sit down and look one over.