Allison vs Triad 21 handling?

[JBS]

For you guys who have driven both boats,what are the handling characteristics of each boat?

[JCSmile]

The triad bottom was essentially a splash mold of the Allison GT20. I would guess that they are very similar.

[Chummy]

The triad bottom was essentially a splash mold of the Allison GT20. I would guess that they are very similar.

guessed wrong

[Z06man]

Triad is very easy and will forgive some errors . Allison depending on model not so forgiving . Both great boats , boat for fast / family Triad is great , fast / fast with light loads Allison .

[TNT]

The triad bottom was essentially a splash mold of the Allison GT20. I would guess that they are very similar.

You've obviously never compared the two hulls side by side. The only thing IMO that resembles the GT20 is keel.

[talonkid]

It also greatly depends on what Allison you plan on looking at

[JCSmile]

I'll take your guys word for it, as I'm no expert. Definitely have heard the "rumor" on more than one occasion. I think they certainly have some similarities.
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[JBS]

The boats look similar,however the Triad is a larger boat.I've had both.The Gt 20 was easy to drive.I'm in the process of restoring a Triad 21,yet to run it.several friends have said the newer 20 ft Allison's can be a challenge to drive.Just wondering if the Triad was like that? Thx, JB

[jsnvulcan13]

I had never driven a boat on the pad so my v-21 was challenging until I figure it out.


Jason H.

[speedinstream]

V-21 much easier

[JBS]

V-21 much easier Thx for the imput. Right now the boat is getting a new composite floor,awlgrip floor,beefed up stringers.Probably going with 2 recaro style seats for a river racer look.Any suggestions
Will be appreciated.

[TNT]

Thx for the imput. Right now the boat is getting a new composite floor,awlgrip floor,beefed up stringers.Probably going with 2 recaro style seats for a river racer look.Any suggestions
Will be appreciated.

That sounds awesome. I am doing the same to a V21 that was left out and abused. Good luck with the resto

[JPEROG]

Smart Marine has the GT 20 molds and just pulled their first one out. No idea what he is getting for them but they are all infused and built with light weight composites.

Joe

[freeebird]

Smart Marine has the GT 20 molds and just pulled their first one out. No idea what he is getting for them but they are all infused and built with light weight composites.

JoeInteresting. My understanding was that Steve Stepp ended up with those molds. Looked at the Smart Marine website just now and don't see anything about it. Not questioning you, just curious. Have you seen this boat?

[freeebird]

V-21 much easierI've never driven a V-21, but how can it be "much easier" to drive than the GT20? The original (Paul Allison designed) 20's are much easier to drive than the newer (Darris Allison designed) 20's as I have owned and driven both. No doubt the latter are faster boats, but I like the old ones better.

When it comes right down to it, EVERY v bottom with a pad is a copy of an Allison to some extent, and I too have always heard the Triad was pretty much a copy of the original 20. I'm sure they're great boats though, and they do have a bit more room. Probably a bit faster too from what I've seen.

[speedinstream]

I wasn't referring to a gt20 I had one of them to gt20 is nothing like a new style ally totally different animals ally's aren't hard to drive just take a lot more attention to keep on the pad the pad feels very narrow

[Chummy]

I sure as hell hope Noah didn't have a pad on the ark.... he might have gotten a letter about copyright infringement or a patent violation

[JPEROG]

Interesting. My understanding was that Steve Stepp ended up with those molds. Looked at the Smart Marine website just now and don't see anything about it. Not questioning you, just curious. Have you seen this boat?

Chris bought a lot of the stuff that Steve had acquired when they shut the most recent Sanford operation down. I saw the first hull when I was over there last weekend. He has multiple projects in motion and this is not one of the most pressing for him.

Joe

[freeebird]

I sure as hell hope Noah didn't have a pad on the ark.... he might have gotten a letter about copyright infringement or a patent violation

You don't need a pad when God is on your side. :D

[freeebird]

Chris bought a lot of the stuff that Steve had acquired when they shut the most recent Sanford operation down. I saw the first hull when I was over there last weekend. He has multiple projects in motion and this is not one of the most pressing for him.

JoeCool. Is it a full deck GT20 that looks like the original, or is it some modified flats boat thing? I'd love to see one, just for the heck of it.

I was talking to Glenn Reynolds a few months ago about whether or not he knew of an old 20 ever breaking into triple digits, and he said, no. I don't think making one lighter would help in that department. They like to float and fly as they are.

[JBS]

Since there was some response regarding the GT 20,I was wondering about the different models. The 2 Allison's I had 30 some odd years ago had the benches running down the inside with molded in front seats.However,I've seen models with 2 front buckets and a rear bench.Was that a race hull converted to a sport boat? Just wondering?

[freeebird]

Since there was some response regarding the GT 20,I was wondering about the different models. The 2 Allison's I had 30 some odd years ago had the benches running down the inside with molded in front seats.However,I've seen models with 2 front buckets and a rear bench.Was that a race hull converted to a sport boat? Just wondering?That's a SS20 with the molded interior. I've owned two of them. Same hull as the GT. GT's have two buckets and smaller lounge seats. The one in my avatar is a GT.

[JPEROG]

Cool. Is it a full deck GT20 that looks like the original, or is it some modified flats boat thing? I'd love to see one, just for the heck of it.

I was talking to Glenn Reynolds a few months ago about whether or not he knew of an old 20 ever breaking into triple digits, and he said, no. I don't think making one lighter would help in that department. They like to float and fly as they are.

It didn't have a deck on it but I can ask him what it will look like.

Joe

[MODVP22]

I sure as hell hope Noah didn't have a pad on the ark.... he might have gotten a letter about copyright infringement or a patent violation

you might go to hell, but that's still funny sh!t right there


You don't need a pad when God is on your side. :D

That's mic drop funny right there, I don't care who ya are

[aeneas]

Funny they are but don't you protect your patents?

For me the Allison GT-20/SS-20 are not that appealing but the Triad V-21 is an extremely good looking boat. There are similarities but not the the extent that one would mistake them (by looking at pictures - I have not seen any of them irl).

[freeebird]

Not that appealing?

366993366994

[aeneas]

Perhaps I should refrase... They are cool but I like the SS-2000, XR-2001, XS-2003 and XR-2002 better. :)

[speedinstream]

367030I had them at the same time this the day I got them

[David]

How was Triad build quality? Some used ones seem to need restoration. Of course they are old boats now. But I never see current generation Ally's being restored.

[JBS]

How was Triad build quality? Some used ones seem to need restoration. Of course they are old boats now. But I never see current generation Ally's being restored.The build quality is very good.My boat was 23 years old with wood floors and stringers.It had a soft spot at the seat and in front of the bench.Going back with composite.Everything was easy to get to.I'm sure there are other 21s out there that are pristine.

[freeebird]

How was Triad build quality? Some used ones seem to need restoration. Of course they are old boats now. But I never see current generation Ally's being restored."Current generation" Allison's don't need to be restored as they have no wood in them. Older ones like the GT20 and all the Paul Allison designed boats have wood stringers and transoms, and LOTS of those are continuously being restored... in addition to being splashed by other companies. My '79 SS20 I recently sold was all original and had never been touched. What kills them is water intrusion into the transom due to improper sealing. Mine was solid as a rock.

[whipper]

I was a passenger in a Triad to 105 mph. I hate being a {{{Passenger!!}}}:eek: One thing I liked about the Triad was her ability to come off of speed relatively fast compared to my Allison. I was so freaked out the way buddy was accelerating then slowing down buy just letting his foot of then back on again because of shore or wakes ect... I felt the GS cut wakes better but at the same time Ive always thought that very deep sharp bow is the very thing that doesn't allow Allison's to come off of speed as well for the most part as the Triad for example. Hence why 3.+ lt engines seem to be more suited to The Triad over the Allison in the 20fters. I love the look of Freeebirds GT20 very very sharp looking boat. There are so many sweet looking and performing boats its so hard to pick just one! Each one has there merit. i love STV Euros,Allisons, Tuff21,GT20,Triads, HNR NTV, Challengers,T3,s, Liberators, Talons,Skaters, GOD to many to list all sick sick sick boats!! all will get ya going were ya want to go in a hurry! All have there unique driving style required.:cheers:

[freeebird]

I was a passenger in a Triad to 105 mph. I hate being a {{{Passenger!!}}}:eek: One thing I liked about the Triad was her ability to come off of speed relatively fast compared to my Allison. I was so freaked out the way buddy was accelerating then slowing down buy just letting his foot of then back on again because of shore or wakes ect... I felt the GS cut wakes better but at the same time Ive always thought that very deep sharp bow is the very thing that doesn't allow Allison's to come off of speed as well for the most part as the Triad for example. Hence why 3.+ lt engines seem to be more suited to The Triad over the Allison in the 20fters. I love the look of Freeebirds GT20 very very sharp looking boat. There are so many sweet looking and performing boats its so hard to pick just one! Each one has there merit. i love STV Euros,Allisons, Tuff21,GT20,Triads, HNR NTV, Challengers,T3,s, Liberators, Talons,Skaters, GOD to many to list all sick sick sick boats!! all will get ya going were ya want to go in a hurry! All have there unique driving style required.:cheers:

Whipper, you ever drive a GT20? They come off top speed very easily when you chop the throttle, or run out of gas. We won't talk about that last part. :D

I've never seen a V21 up close and personal, but as with a couple others here, I always heard they were basically a copy of the Allison GT20, at least the hull bottom. With that, I would think they would handle about the same. Can anybody tell me the differences in the bottoms as to pad width, contour, etc? One thing I can say is, I've never seen anybody claiming triple digit speeds with the GT20. I guess that makes it the only Allison over 14' that can't make that claim. Weight doesn't seem to be the issue there, but it's widely claimed the GT gets floaty once you break into the 90's. Do the Triad's have a lip on the pad? The old 20's don't. That could make a difference. In fact, I'm planning to experiment with mine a little along that line this spring as it does love to fly high, even with minimal to no trim.

[Chummy]

The V21's are a variable pitch bottom whereas the Allison isn't, the transom is notched where as the Allison isn't. Depending on the setup when the boat left the factory some had wedge on the pad and some didn't. The heavier boats definitely didn't have any wedge on the pad.

[freeebird]

The V21's are a variable pitch bottom whereas the Allison isn't, the transom is notched where as the Allison isn't. Depending on the setup when the boat left the factory some had wedge on the pad and some didn't. The heavier boats definitely didn't have any wedge on the pad.

Uh, you're wrong about the transom not being notched on the Allison, and there is variable deadrise on the pad. None of the old Allison's had any wedge/lip on the pad, but what constitutes a "heavier" V21?

[Chummy]

every gt/ss/r20 I have seen had no notched transom and they were if memory serves correctly 23* bottoms

some owners lived in areas that had much rougher water so the boat was laid up heavier and stronger than others that were going to be used for smooth water/ maybe some drag racing

[freeebird]

every gt/ss/r20 I have seen had no notched transom and they were if memory serves correctly 23* bottoms

some owners lived in areas that had much rougher water so the boat was laid up heavier and stronger than others that were going to be used for smooth water/ maybe some drag racing

Sorry, bud, but ALL the original 20's had notched transoms. As for deadrise etc., maybe you missed this. Deadrise at the transom is not the same as the deadrise on the pad. Bottom line is, the pads are not flat. http://www.hydrostream.org/Literature/AllisonGT20.pdf

[speedinstream]

They fit exactly on the same trailer I know

[speedinstream]

But they handle and drive all together different v21 feels much more free but not flighty yet handles chop better so something is different with the bottom I owned both at same time and ran them same day same conditions one after the other also

[Chummy]

The Allison has two sets of lifting strakes per side and the Triad has three, they are also not straight out the back but turned down at the back edges

Transom on the V21 is notched 6 or 8" if I remember also instead of 4

[freeebird]

The Allison has two sets of lifting strakes per side and the Triad has three, they are also not straight out the back but turned down at the back edges

Transom on the V21 is notched 6 or 8" if I remember also instead of 4Yeah, but we've already seen that your memory ain't that good. :D

Seriously, you can't look at the bottom of a V21 and not see the GT20 unless you just choose not to, for whatever reason. Ironically enough, a member here had a photo show up at the top of the page of a V21 coming at you from an angle. I clicked on it thinking it was a 20, but it was a V21. Regardless of any differences, I think it's safe to say that if not for the original Allison GT20, there would be no V21, at least not one that looks/runs like they do.

I'm still waiting for an explanation as to how the V21 is faster, unless it's just the lightweight models that are that fast. Then again, I've never heard of a R20 breaking 100, so they must be doing something better than the boat they copied.

[Chummy]

All along I thought this was comparing the handling aspects.... not another "oh how great Allisons are thread" to help someone feel better about themselves for some reason... I don't look at the back of Allisons for some reason or another... go figure. Heavy or light they run great (Triads that is) the heaviest one ever made runs 107+. You had a chance to look at a few Triads at the ramp in Jasper on Thursday when we went to ride, so you can see the difference. Done with this thread.

[talonkid]

I can attest that the heaviest triad is definitely no slouch in the speed or comfort department. Its a battleship that you can have a dance party on the deck of lol

That being said, I've also heard this argument over and over from many different people and the differences between them is staggering. At the end of the day they are both 20' v-bottom boats and sure there are going to be similarities - they are both boats, and they both have a v shape. It was stated that the GT20 has problems over 90 mph and yet the V-21 has no problems reaching speeds in excess of 100 mph. There are many many accounts of triads doing those speeds with all different kinds of power so its not like it is some biased statemtn. Now I didn't design the boat, nor can I comment on the technical differences or aerodynamics of the design - but to me common sense would dictate that if one boat has problems and the other boat doesn't there is probably some kind of difference - and in this case the most notable difference would be in the design of the bottom of the boat.

[freeebird]

All along I thought this was comparing the handling aspects.... not another "oh how great Allisons are thread" to help someone feel better about themselves for some reason... I don't look at the back of Allisons for some reason or another... go figure. Heavy or light they run great (Triads that is) the heaviest one ever made runs 107+. You had a chance to look at a few Triads at the ramp in Jasper on Thursday when we went to ride, so you can see the difference. Done with this thread.

Didn't mean to put you panties in a knot as handling and speed sorta go together, don't ya think? Besides, I readily admitted knowing the V21 could best the GT20 on top speed and was just wondering why. I would have loved to have gotten a close up look at a V21 at Jasper, but you boys were so dang slow getting your boats in the water, my motor did something stupid which kept me from running. No doubt that was a blessing in disguise vs it puking on me 40 miles down the river.

I bought my current GT20 because I've just always loved the way they look and drive. Kinda like comparing a split window with a new Stingray that will beat it in every department except nostalgia and cool factor. Who knows? Had I run across a V21, I could very well be running around in one of those. Never said anything negative about them whatsoever.

[StratosVT]

i've never seen a v21 up close and personal, but as with a couple others here, i always heard they were basically a copy of the allison gt20, at least the hull bottom. With that, i would think they would handle about the same. Can anybody tell me the differences

About 20mph

[freeebird]

Cute

[whipper]

http://www.screamandfly.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=366840&d=1486663796&thumb=1http://www.screamandfly.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=366839&d=1486663778&thumb=1 Just looking at these two pics side buy side there are differances I can see that would benifit the V21 in higher speeds. One of the reasons the GT20 {probably} gets flighty would be the flared bow farther forward than the less flared bow of the V21. The V21 also has a more raked shape down the chines. At the Stern the V21 is more flared out from the keel line with a more straight edge to the rub rail. That in combination with the more swept back profile helps the V21 to fly at a higher speed with a more aerodynamic shape than the GT20. The GT 20,s big frontal area though would help her to fly at a reasonable High speed with less power isn't really the shape of choice for really high speeds like above 100mph. Also the stern area of the GT 20 were the flare from the keel to the rub rail comes out is more rounded. This looks nice and has some flying function but not as aerodynamically efficient as a wider flare and straighter edges. The best example on any Vee Bottom boat made today is the Allison RR. Very small very swept back frontal area, super wide wing flared stern ,shallow free board light and super fast. 120+++MPH. Basically a stealth wing with an outboard on the back! lol https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6e/f8/69/6ef869e7cc1a1ccd0d25912ef957edb9.jpg

[freeebird]

http://www.screamandfly.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=366840&d=1486663796&thumb=1http://www.screamandfly.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=366839&d=1486663778&thumb=1 Just looking at these two pics side buy side there are differances I can see that would benifit the V21 in higher speeds. One of the reasons the GT20 {probably} gets flighty would be the flared bow farther forward than the less flared bow of the V21. The V21 also has a more raked shape down the chines. At the Stern the V21 is more flared out from the keel line with a more straight edge to the rub rail. That in combination with the more swept back profile helps the V21 to fly at a higher speed with a more aerodynamic shape than the GT20. The GT 20,s big frontal area though would help her to fly at a reasonable High speed with less power isn't really the shape of choice for really high speeds like above 100mph. Also the stern area of the GT 20 were the flare from the keel to the rub rail comes out is more rounded. This looks nice and has some flying function but not as aerodynamically efficient as a wider flare and straighter edges. The best example on any Vee Bottom boat made today is the Allison RR. Very small very swept back frontal area, super wide wing flared stern ,shallow free board light and super fast. 120+++MPH. Basically a stealth wing with an outboard on the back! lol https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6e/f8/69/6ef869e7cc1a1ccd0d25912ef957edb9.jpgThat all makes perfectly good sense, especially the part about being designed to go fast (lots of lift) with less horsepower. There weren't many motors back in the mid to late 70's that could even push that boat to 100, so it makes sense they wouldn't be designed with that in mind. The XR2002 that replaced it took care of that issue when higher horsepower motors were available. Like I said, I've always liked the way the Triad looks.

[skewby]

gt20's designed in the mid 70's with tower of power in mind with what 150 hp? when was the v21 designed? that would put a lot in perspective pauls design was the the fastest when new. then came the xr2002 then the grand sport. those 2 hulls in my guess are were built when the v21 came out. if so i'd put my money on the xr or the grand sport with the same power

[freeebird]

Merc V6's had been out for a little over a year when the first GT20 arrived, but Paul may well have designed it around the inline 6. Don't think it was truly designed as a race boat though. I have an article around someplace to that effect.

[JBS]

That blue RR is a pretty boat.I just can't fit in it!

[patchesII]

gt20's designed in the mid 70's with tower of power in mind with what 150 hp? when was the v21 designed? that would put a lot in perspective pauls design was the the fastest when new. then came the xr2002 then the grand sport. those 2 hulls in my guess are were built when the v21 came out. if so i'd put my money on the xr or the grand sport with the same power

The XR2002 was introduced in 83 so I'd guess the design phase was '82-'83, well before the V21. The XR is faster than either the V21 or especially the GS

[JWTjr.]

The XR2002 was in initial testing stages in 1978-79. I remember Darris testing it with (of course) an 85.

[freeebird]

I always wondered why there was never a sport/race boat version of the XTB21, especially given there was the XB2002 and XR2002 which shared the same hull. The XTB21 was definitely capable of triple digit speeds.

[patchesII]

The XR2002 and XB2002 aren't the same hull

[freeebird]

The XR2002 and XB2002 aren't the same hullI always thought they were. Had a XR2002 and have driven a XB2002. What's the difference in the hull?

[patchesII]

XR is narrower and has a wider pad. I'd suspect there are other more slight differences. I've had two XR2002's and both my dad and brother have/had XB2002's. I miss having an XR

[freeebird]

XR is narrower and has a wider pad. I'd suspect there are other more slight differences. I've had two XR2002's and both my dad and brother have/had XB2002's. I miss having an XRInteresting. I just always assumed it was the same hull with a different cap as I never measured them. Would have thought the narrower pad would have been on the XR.

I didn't keep my XR that long (long story), but I didn't like the way it rode/felt as much as I did my SS20 or XTB21. It definitely rode rougher in a chop and was harder to drive, but there was no comparison in the performance. I've still found myself drooling over the new ones, but I figure I'll keep my GT forever... or until the new, super secret model is about 10 years old! LOL

[freeebird]

A couple of shots of my XR.
367318367319

[JBS]

That's the boat I originally wanted.

[freeebird]

That's the boat I originally wanted.
They're fun, but if I had to choose between another XR and a V21 as my only boat, I'd go with the V21. Not as fast, but much more usable. That's why I went back to another SS20 followed by a GT20 instead of going with another XR. Have to admit the new XR2002's have me drooling, but... been there, done that.

[patchesII]

I loved my XR's!

http://i54.tinypic.com/eagz69.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/6o3k2r.jpg

[Scott Gilmore]

Yes GT 20 & Triad V21 are very similar looking. But I've always thought a more direct comparison was the Allison XS 2003 ( Grand Sport ) vs The Triad V 21. I checked both boats out very carefully and gathered a ton of opinions back in 1997 before I ordered my first Allison ( XS 2003 ). To me it was almost a coin toss, not that the boats were the same but were very close in price, interior size, fit & finish AND GREAT LOOKING ( in their own way). I've owned a bunch of Allisons since then but always wanted a V 21. TRIAD vs ALLISON not a bad choice to have !! Scott :cheers: PS...........as far as driving an Allison, if I can ANYONE can