EPA putting the screws to Chrysler Cummins

[FMP]

Diesel programming could be at fault on 2014 models. 3.0L not the Cummins.

[STV_Keith]

Got a link? Cummins supplies the engines with their own fuel controller, so Dodge really doesn't have any part in that.

[FMP]

some info
https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-notifies-fiat-chrysler-clean-air-act-violations

[mjw930]

The light duty engines this speaks to are not Cummins, they are supplied by VM Motori, an Italian engine manufacturer.

[FMP]

True, NOT Cummins but the early report this morning named CMI with Chrysler, then both shares tanked. Originally a GM motor prospect years back I think.

[poncho]

The figures are arbitrary, basically made up by the EPA and not based on science. In 1981, Jaguar decided to longer sell the XJ12 in the USA and Porsche dropped the 930 for the same reason, until 1986. The reason they couldn't use the same engine in more then one model of the cars they imported into the USA. For Jaguar the XJS V12 out sold the XJ12 by a wide margin. Porsche could make convertible and Targa versions of the 911. So they dropped the turbo version. Despite the engines being identical to the other models sold in the USA. You had to import it and have it "modified" to meet the EPA standards. Despite the engine being identical to the ones sold in the USA in other models. Ferrari also thought the rules stupid and just decided it was easier to drop the 512BB from America and let people import them themselves.

Emission's have nothing to do about the environment. It helps the state make more fees for vehicle registration. It helps repair shops make money helping people pass.

Here we had tests called Air Care. When it was rolling dynameters testing. You could go to the local test center. Fail. Drive to the next closest center and pass without doing anything to the car. When they had the program to do testing via OBII and plug in with their lap top. The failure rates became almost zero. The government also had to drop the price of the test.


Fact is an engine can be more polluting. But that pollution is less after passing the catalytic converter and pollution control of the car. OBII can tell if the pollution equipment is working. Not how much pollution is exiting the exhaust!


Both the VW and Chrysler violations are total BS!!!!


Liberals are that stupid to think every car can be 100% the same in air quality. Its impossible. The emission is set by moron politicians and dumb ass government idiots. The EPA is no different then the IRS. Its no different over my local city government wanting zero garbage in our land fill.

[FMP]

It had been suggested that the tail pipe test was axed for vehicles less than five or six years old as a result of manufacture warranties being able to cover all the lazy cats. A code won't show a reading that is outside acceptable range but only far worse. So a high mileage econo box still on factory warranty that wouldn't pass a test is good to go because the code isn't showing an issue that would result in a warranty claim.

[poncho]

Maybe they said that in Ontario. Here they gave up because the failure rates became almost nil. One we don't get much snow in the lower mainland, so no salt on the roads and we have less rust issues. I have a degree from Ryerson. While I was getting my degree, I worked in the car biz as a sales guy for a used dealer. I had a dozen or so licensed mechanics that would sell me safety certificates and not even look at the car. Ontario and Quebec, the car business is very, very, corrupt. As a dealer on the title transfer, to avoid being prosecuted for odometer tampering, I could transfer the title as true miles unknown on any used car. Canada is very corrupt as a country. The most corrupt are the dirty liberal in Ontario and their separatist goons in Quebec!

Example of Ontario's corruption besides liberal thief Martin taking $100million in government grants to his offshore company while finance minister, or Mulroney as prime minister being paid by Airbus to order their planes! They'll let anyone steal in the cesspool known as Ontario!

example: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/funds-and-etfs/funds/osc-fines-otto-spork-1-million/article4228737/

What about the $90 million people invested in his hedge fund? And what is this non criminal fraud that lets you take in several million in commissions and only pay $1million in fines?

I wouldn't trust a dang thing a Canadian politician says!

[David - WI]

Nothing in the VW "scandal" was surprising or new; just that the Obama administration decided they could rape VW for something the US government had been turning a blind eye to for 30 years.

I read an article, probably over 20 years ago, about how GM had programmed their ECU's to recognize the start of a standard EPA emissions test cycle and automatically switch over to a "low emissions" program in order to pass the tests.

Here's one reference regarding diesels:

In summary, then, EPA knew from experience dating back to the 1970s that computercontrols can affect the emission of regulated pollutants from motor vehicle engines, and that, by thelate 1980s, such controls were being used in heavy-duty diesel engines. EPA had specific knowledge,dating back to a meeting with Mercedes-Benz in 1991, that electronic engine controllers gave dieselengine manufacturers the ability to program their engines to recognize and distinguish urban fromhighway driving conditions and to recognize the FTP (Federal Test Procedure) -- information corroborated shortly thereafterby a knowledgeable whistleblower working for a key diesel engine manufacturer. EPA also twicereceived actual test data, in 1991 and again in 1993, showing excess levels of emissions by “certified”diesel engines during on-road use. By 1994, if not earlier, EPA knew that its European counterparts-- who utilized a different test cycle for diesel engines -- believed that EPA’s FTP could be and wasbeing circumvented through the use of transient sensing algorithms. However, despite all of thisincreasingly specific and credible information, EPA did not take any action as a result, and still hasnot proposed revising the FTP to more accurately reflect actual driving conditions.

http://www.walshcarlines.com/pdf/housereport.pdf

[CDave]

Never knew all this. Frickin' politicians!

[mr fun]

the 3.0 is not a Cummins, it's a German built engine.

[FMP]

Nobody said the eco was.