OKAY, I give up what's a ====

[wuhbbr]

Last weekend I was working the pits at a APBA OPC race. I ask 4 veteran Merc. racers, 2 OMC veteran racers, "what is a CLE lower unit"? None of them had a clue what a CLE lower unit is. All said, "never heard of such a thing." The 4 Merc racers, talked about #4; #6; speed masters, BP; super speed master; T-2; Twister, lower units, and many others that Mercury has put out over the decades. =
Here's the questions, what is a CLE lower unit? What does / do CLE letters stand for?

[specboatops]

Cresent Leading Edge - surprised the guys you spoke to didn't know this ????

[Baja170]

They make (made) a 2 hole a 4 hole and a MOD VP 2 hole version with the holes above the bullet.

Here is a listing for a 4 hole that has some great pics. http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?315059-4-hole-cle

[wuhbbr]

Thanks! I'll let them know. I must assume, they don't use CLE lower units on their races boats.
Keep in mind, these boats are just for "real boat racing" (not river racing) tiny cockpits, one seat, very light weight, non-production hulls, often "one off" builds.

[Baja170]

I am sure the race guys now are running much more modern lowers and uppers and whole drives these days.


Mercury as far as I know has not produced CLE's for a long time. That is why I have spares. I have a 21' Shadow that has a couple 260's on it with 20" Mid 4 hole CLE's and the 21 high deadrise V guys say the big bullets on the CLE's give some stern lift running high - x factor on the 21 footers and sporties would cost a couple MPH. I plan on keeping my boat a LONG time so I am stocking up on spare lowers just to make it easy on myself if I blow one. The boat will plane on one engine and it would take me about an hour to swap on one of my spares then back on the water nad giving it hell. :)

This is what the ModVP lower CLE looks like. I guess the ModVP rules back in the day mandated above bullet lower water pickups.

[Valero2.5]

Wow, Racers didn't know that :-(

[wuhbbr]

I wish I taken a close look at what they were running. When they were talking #4 & #6 it was about size & durability under race conditions. Some had the speed master & super speed master w/ fwd gears only, exhaust above water, a few stackers were there. Some were thru hub exhaust. Gears overdrive, underdrive, 1-1, up to 2-1. Speeds on a oval from mid 90 to high 120's - low 130's - Keep in mind there several boats at once, running together on a oval course, side by side. None ran in a straight line just for speed, no drags. Like NASCAR but on rough water with strong wind.

[Baja170]

Wind definitely plays a role. Yesterday on my twisty turning lake in the steep mountains, the boat would crab left or right depending on teh wind gusts. Never experienced that before even with my Cougar. Pretty crazy. I loved it though. Man the boat addiction is the best of any and I have put myself through a hard life.

[largecar91]

I wish I taken a close look at what they were running. When they were talking #4 & #6 it was about size & durability under race conditions. Some had the speed master & super speed master w/ fwd gears only, exhaust above water, a few stackers were there. Some were thru hub exhaust. Gears overdrive, underdrive, 1-1, up to 2-1. Speeds on a oval from mid 90 to high 120's - low 130's - Keep in mind there several boats at once, running together on a oval course, side by side. None ran in a straight line just for speed, no drags. Like NASCAR but on rough water with strong wind.
It is like Nascar on water except our racecourse changes every second. It's more fun than sex(depending on the woman):D

[wuhbbr]

Largecar, you nailed it. I often tell people about the non-stop changing of the course, waves, wind, other racers throwing a wall of water in your face, bumping a banging, getting thrown around, power boats wakes crossing the course. = Most get it, some look at you dumb founded. Unlike NASCAR we don't get paid for it.

[largecar91]

We do get paid for it but it sure doesn't cover the actual costs. Here's a few pics of my newest boat.

[CircleHook]

wuhbbr- thanks for asking- I have been wondering the same but was too embarassed to ask-

[Deznuts3570]

Ive also heard CLE's blow out more than sportys because of skeg design and bullet profile. Can anyone shed any light to this?

[wuhbbr]

largecar, nice looking rig!! Looks like a fun boat. Who built the boat? Never drove a capsule boat but they look tight!
I understand the rescue team must have many hours of special training and they must be there before capsules can race in APBA. Correct?
Love the color! I have a restored 70's vintage 15' Christfield about the same color.

[largecar91]

Thanks. It's a Seebold

[Baja170]

Ive also heard CLE's blow out more than sportys because of skeg design and bullet profile. Can anyone shed any light to this?

All depends on how much prop pitch you are running and how you CG the boat. I had a lot harder time getting on plane with my Shadow today with 5 people in it with 30P's than with the pair of 28's with 4 people. Once on plane no comparison, the thing is a rocket with the 30's. Had some fun racing some high dollar bass boats. One came back for more the other pulled into a cove. Definitely not going to be running this on the weekend or the law will be pulling me over multiple times.
You know, it is amazing how every high dollar bass boat goes 90. The CLE's are a lot more blunt, fatter and not nearly as streamlined as sportys for sure.

[wetsetmarine]

Crescents definitely blow out before sporty's

[wuhbbr]

One of my buddies has Buck Thorton's old Seebolt. He's getting it rebuilt / restored. Any older (pre 1989) tunnels out your way? How about 2.0 = 2.4 Mercs a good fishing 20" motor (complete) would be great. At a fair price of course.

[largecar91]

One of my buddies has Buck Thorton's old Seebolt. He's getting it rebuilt / restored. Any older (pre 1989) tunnels out your way? How about 2.0 = 2.4 Mercs a good fishing 20" motor (complete) would be great. At a fair price of course.. I run across some old tunnels once in a while. They are getting scarce. There are quite a few running in Vintage events now.

[Baja170]

This is what CLE's look like. All these are 4 hole CLE's. Check the X factor on this Shadow. Crazy but FUN FUN FUN. These are all 20" vertical shaft for 20" OS mids.

[specboatops]

. Had some fun racing some high dollar bass boats. One came back for more the other pulled into a cove.

Bully : )

[wuhbbr]

Got it. Much like the lower unit on my old 1500 XS.
Thanks

[Baja170]

THey asked for it. We were just riding around having fun. I also had 5 people in my Shadow. One in the Bullet. Oh well. Yes I guess I was a dick, could not help it. AND I did not even have to put the pedal to the wood. Like I said, I was lucky to get the boat.

[JPEROG]

All depends on how much prop pitch you are running and how you CG the boat. I had a lot harder time getting on plane with my Shadow today with 5 people in it with 30P's than with the pair of 28's with 4 people. Once on plane no comparison, the thing is a rocket with the 30's. Had some fun racing some high dollar bass boats. One came back for more the other pulled into a cove. Definitely not going to be running this on the weekend or the law will be pulling me over multiple times.
You know, it is amazing how every high dollar bass boat goes 90. They are a lot more blunt and not nearly as streamlined as sportys for sure.

The CLE case was good for 125 mph if you had the power to get you there. Dan Filtenborgs turbo charged 2.5 on alcohol would make approx. 450 hp and he experienced prop blowout at just over 126 in his STV Pro Comp enough times to know that it was the breaking point of water being able to follow the contour of the gear case. When you go past that point, the water "blows out" to the sides and the prop is now aerated and looses its load. He never crashed or got in trouble thanks in part to the forgiving tendencies of that hull but he earned a tremendous respect for the limitation.

Joe

[Baja170]

I believe that. JPEROG. They do create lift and deflect water off them. I have been told by a few people that in the Shadow stern lift is good for a few MPH over the smaller sleaker sporty lowers and bullets but I am not running anywhere near those kind of speeds. They are some pretty large bullets on them for sure. Larger than the IMCO SC lower on my Cougar I believe and maybe thicker as well above the bullet.

I remember reading a post from ChrisM who built the boat that he was having some blowout issues where the stern would suddenly shift over at WOT and high speed but he and JamesGang somehow figured it out. I am sure the thick and big bullet CLE's had a lot to do with it. I know he and Jimmy worked with toe in and out prop rotation direction and X factor to find the best setup to control this and also if you lost an engine going fast it was a problem and would put the boat over on its side and body slam you against the inside of the boat not enough to come out of it but Cooter had it happen to him and was telling me about it. They figured out how to fix this issue with engine alignment toe in.

In the Cougar with -3 SC lower you even have to be careful coming off power fast and adding down trim at the same time or you get stern lift like you are describing and prop blowout but for a different reason of course. It is the only Cat I have ever owned but I can imagine it is a potential problem on all of them. You have to keep the rear end planted and that prop getting bite or you got no steering.

I think everybody thought I was FOS when I mentioned the CLE's provided some stern lift on the Shadow.

SCARRRRYYYY at over 120 I am sure.

[johnmiffco]

have to remember the cle,s came out in the 1980s till the sporty took place later in the 90s
most people that are still left running the opc class never been around offshore boats back then
yes offshore,,,,,as that's what the cle was made for ,,as why came on offshore mids
so the bigger boats could raise the motors for better performance
don't have blow out problems on larger boats
on small light boats with the blunt bullet they did especially if not fully split shaft
a cle is the same od as a sporty,,as the sporty used the same internal parts from the cle
the housing is just longer and leading center point is lower than centerline
this allowed to be able to raise motor higher without loosing water pressure
and with the longer bullet little more speed before blow out
want to make a cle faster,,,,cut off the point and weld on a nosecone to make it longer
sporty is a slower case if is not fully splitshaft
as it is beefier and wider above propshaft
so on a heavier boat trying to plane with case a bit below split the cle is better
as it was a production design case with hd internal components and a cone and below center pick ups
the other case they made then was the mod vp as stated
rules were then to have production water pu location
so used the hd cle case with high inlets

[Baja170]

Very interesting. Thank you for the info. the CLE's are working GREAT on my shadow and I have 3 spares because of that. Love how the boat handles and drives out.