what now what

[TEXAS20225]

fresh rebuilt 1999 200 merc Efi injectors cleaned by B.Power,new guts in motor , pulse pump rebuilt ,this motor when started up started flooding imediatly, changed ecu to brucato = no change,yes unplugged tpi ,then checked tpi when switched back to merc ecu no change, checked fuel pump cycle it shut off in 20 seconds up to pressure so nothing leaking inside , unplugged air temp sensor it got worse, to this point everything has been checked and its as it is supposed to be but its getting a lot of fuel from some where in the system and im not sure how normally its a pulse pump issue but not this time??? but where??? any ideas

[Dave Strong]

You try changing or testing the head temp sensor? New O-Rings on injectors? This got CDI or switch box's?

Dave

[TEXAS20225]

Dave this a motor built by a friend of mine in another part of the country a good mechanic and friend he called me off and on all day as we tried different stuff the air temp sensor unit and puck came to my mind right off he said he unplugged them and it got worse so sounds like its working after all he checked all day long he found nothing when you get extra fuel it either comes from a motor choking itself to death or the pulse pump is leaking into plenum a test of fuel pump via switch time test will tell if orings are leaking by it pumped its elf up an cut off did not come back on so it does not sound like its a leaking oring

[Dave Strong]

Float in the VST stuck? Press reg leaking through the diaphragm? :confused:


Dave

[TEXAS20225]

can vst float be stuck if pump shuts off when pumped up

[Dave Strong]

Sure would be sucking fuel into the intake through the small vac line that goes to the intake when running.

Dave

[TEXAS20225]

ill call him tomorrow and tell him he can unplug vacuum hose he will see fuel

[Dave Strong]

Can do the same with the regulator, have it running.

Dave

[capnzee]

diaphram leaking in the fuel regulator> check pressures on both sides

[TEXAS20225]

well none of these check points were any change what so ever im stumped " again"

[Dave Strong]

Back to the drawing board, will sleep on it maybe that will help. :D:confused:
It's all 6 running rich?


Dave

[TEXAS20225]

its actually flooding at idle:nonod:

[Dave Strong]

He play with the idle "throtle plate opening" ?
Getting fuel and timing but no air?

Dave

[capnzee]

you have a leak in the fuel regulator diaphram causing a rich condition at idle. Bet it starts good then after just a few seconds it starts to run rough and tries quitting on you so you give it more throttle to keep it running which it does (most of the time). Then seems to get better as rpms are increased. With a larger hole in the diaphram, you won't get this far. You never did say that you have checked the regulators for holding proper pressure or the diaphrams for leaking (SAME THING).

[TEXAS20225]

guys the fella is on the east coast im in Texas he called me because of my efi experience all the things you guys have mentioned here on the post he says he has tried with no results,we both went thru all the usual suspects in first day and half , this motor went to machine shop came back got new pistons, bearings, seal, gaskets and the rest bolted back on from a motor that was running but stuck a piston:confused: i would have bet it was pulse pump flooding motor this not running rich its flooding itself out

[TEXAS20225]

if i was there and hearing it run i may have a card or so up my sleeve but over the phone is tough , i have test equipment he does not have he builds 260/280 not fishing motas

[Dave Strong]

Is still rich off idle?

Dave

[TEXAS20225]

yes it does not clear up

[Dave Strong]

Try switching the switch boxs around, they are what signals the ECU. Just grasping at straws now but WTF can't hurt to try.

Dave

[tux974]

Check head temp sender sending wrong signal to ECU.
If not tell him to change to primer bulb and carbs......:eek:;):D

[DOC W]

have you tried a remote key ? the choke circuit may be stuck in your switch causing this issue.

[Ace]

You try changing or testing the head temp sensor? New O-Rings on injectors? This got CDI or switch box's?

Dave

Had one similar, no signs of any leaks with pump cycle ,all electricals check good installed new switch boxes at customer request.
But once it started it was rich rich rich.
Pulled the injectors out and found a fuel rail oring bad replaced and all was good.
Also check fuel rail for any issues.

Good luck Bobby

[TEXAS20225]

Richard he pulled all efi off and disassembled it harness and all looking for something he pulled rail out we talked about orings leaking i had done that myself:iagree: im assuming he pulled them out to check them i aint talked to him since Sunday before i went to church don't know what if anything has shown up im really busy my self i sold two motors and a rebuild last week so i dont have much judge judy time these days( my wifes favorite show) so i watch it or play video games when im unlaxing

Dave im thinking switch boxs were check long time back when it first showed up

DOC thats what he needs i may ship him one of mine he did say he found the purple wire to ground in the boat side of the harness which i aint sure what that means but a remote switch has saved my bacon many times with customers claiming stuff that was in their boat not my mota


Tony that was first thing i told him to check head air temp sensor and plenum puck

i gotta call him thanks for all the input

[Dave Strong]

It's all good figgued you would have done the switch box thing but sometimes a guy gets into one of these crazy problems and forgets.
Make sure to let us what fixes the issue, for future hair pulling. ;)

Dave :)

[ranger123]

would the idle speed controller have anything to do with it if it is removed?

[Dave Strong]

would the idle speed controller have anything to do with it if it is removed?

No, all the idle module does is advance timing to keep idle speed over 550rpm.

Dave

[ranger123]

reason I ask is because this is my motor that in question and we did remove the oil injection so now it will be premixed. I have (3) modules that's been removed

[Dave Strong]

If Bobby told you how and what to do to remove the modules you should be fine. ;) Not his first rodeo.

Dave

[ranger123]

I wasn't the one doing it lol I know very little about this and guy doing knows a lot and I'm sure he will find the problem, when we started engine i couldn't tell anything was wrong but he definitely can

[Dave Strong]

Ok forgot this was a 200 with the detonation module. Never done a 200 but something tells me if it has a detonation module you need to ground or loop 2 wires together? Could be way off as having many beers with a buddy. Sorry about Tues drinking. ;):confused: this time of year every day is Friday. :cheers:

Dave :)

[TEXAS20225]

i take ALL BOXS of every rebuild i do;) no auto oiler, no detonation controller that never has worked, no idle control module thats ancient history, i premix all of them!! static timing at 23 and forget it,new pistons ,bearings ,seals, new switch boxs, regs, cleaned injectors rebuilt pulse pump, poppet valve, pressure test lower unit new pump and oil i never see these guys again, ever

[TEXAS20225]

dave i talked with this man this morning its been rain since sunday and he has not worked on it since but he had acouple days off so he is getting back on it today , he did pull injectors and check for torn orings as well as other thongs we aint talked about what blown his mind is this motor was running and dropped a hole he rebuilt it and it aint run right since and he is no rookie by any strech

[Dave Strong]

Bobby I'm stumped but will keep thinking, got to be staring us in the face.

Dave

[Steve Pope]

Disconnect the ECU vacuum hose and connect it to a vacuum pump. Start the engine and then apply increasing amounts of vacuum and see if the engine cleans up. If it does then the problem is in the vacuum line or fitting on the inlet manifold. The other thing you might want to check is the cold start or enrichment wiring. It may be activating the ECU enrichment full time.

[tux974]

Check or change coils and wires.
Sometimes new electrics do not work as well as expected or like the old.

[outasite]

Just read this from the front to back,In my line of work when something like this pops up after a repair,it is usually something that we did,sometimes it's just bad luck but often it's a little thing that we touched or moved.Anyway my money is on the enrichment system,wire on the wrong pin,stuck switch,ect The fact that it was fine before the repair,most likely means it's something the mechanic was involved in.

[DOC W]

OUTASITE thats what i was thinking i had a key switch cause mine to do funky stuff on my 260 changed it and all better

[Baja170]

I've had the push key choke that froze on my baja with 200 built fishing motor on it that kept it in choke. Could not get it to run more than about 45 seconds until the sun heated it up. It did exactly the same thing. Start then die. With that motor, I had to bump the key choke as I was getting it on plane every time or it would die out. Ran like a scalded dog once you got it on plane and no more choke needed. Long shot and I am not very experienced with rebuilding etc but it was a simple problem that had me stumped for hours. Surely there is some wire you can check that would let you know if the keyswitch is telling your electronics you are trying to choke it.

I know I am not a builder or a rigger, just passing on something that happened to me and blew my mind as I never had any trouble like this before or after it happened the one time and it just would not go. I ran down two batteries trying because I had no idea what it was and I had never had any issues with the motor before. I had to paddle it back in to where we were camping. Sucked because the deck was frosted and slippery but sitting on the front and paddling was a lot better than running back and forth and paddling in the back.

[XstreamVking]

Had the same happen on a new motor I rigged out. Got f'd up when the gas guy at the marina added a gal of oil and THEN pumped in the 50 gals of gas. The pick up and vst were full of oil and it would not run for long and smoked like a b#$@!. Just another what if.....

[rock]

Good friend is a Merc tech and years ago he built a "boat in a box" for testing. Contained battery, fuel supply, and a known good harness. Helped him identify and eliminate problems in the boat or at least eliminate the possibility of the boat being the issue. Good luck Bobby.

Rock

[capteliminator]

I would take another look at air temp sensor. Tell him to ohm it out and compare to known good one.

[TEXAS20225]

all very good points and suggestions since he is on the east coast i cant hear it which would help me considerably:nonod: ive had plenty of mystery's over the years most of them have been electrical in some form i have lots of parts and test equipment but that does him no good a 1000 miles away after all the checking i would have swapped harness's in heart beat but he has no extra parts like i do his expertise is horn motors the kind that cooks going cross the watta:eek:;)

[TEXAS20225]

All you guys that replied i talked to this guy this evening and yesterday he took every wire every where on the motor off checked and reattached it:eek: somewhere in the mix its started running better he took it to lake today it ran great, idle great he don't know what happened but he is glad he did whatever he did:p for him ill thank each and everyone of you guys who's input helped continue on where disappointment was looming overhead moral support has no price tag its priceless BobbyV

[Dave Strong]

Bobby when I did electrical and tune up at GM . When EFI came in the big thing on ground issues was tight ain't right. The only way to check a ground is pull it and clean then retighten, or do a voltage drop. Glad the man is happy, he is not and will not be the only guy to fix a crazy problem and not what he did. :eek::D
Just glad he is going. :)

Dave

[rock]

I love it when a gremlin disappears but I hate it when I have no idea why. You do the same things over and over and eventually get a different result. Hope it runs forever.

Rock

[Dave Strong]

I love it when a gremlin disappears but I hate it when I have no idea why. You do the same things over and over and eventually get a different result. Hope it runs forever.

Rock

:iagree: But it seems to happen way to often. :rolleyes: Thats why even if I think I have done everything right its good to start over and go through everything again.;)

Dave :)

[tux974]

I love it when a gremlin disappears but I hate it when I have no idea why. You do the same things over and over and eventually get a different result. Hope it runs forever.

Rock

:iagree: I would be glad but not 100% happy....:nonod::D
I had one drive me crazy going in and out......:mad:
It turned out to be the black wire on the VST tank going to the pump was cracked inside the jacket near ring terminal...I tripped across it when I decided to swap the pump.

[Chaz]

Ok now that it's "fixed" I'd like someone to explain to me how a crushed , cut , chipped , squished , squashed , binged , banged ... fuel rail to injector O -ring can do anything but either leak or hold pressure .... I'll wait . :rolleyes:


Now for those of you who are gonna say , that taking it apart and putting it back together inadvertently "fixed" the bad electrical connection ... please don't ruin a good story line ... ;) :D

[Dave Strong]

Ok now that it's "fixed" I'd like someone to explain to me how a crushed , cut , chipped , squished , squashed , binged , banged ... fuel rail to injector O -ring can do anything but either leak or hold pressure .... I'll wait . :rolleyes:


Now for those of you who are gonna say , that taking it apart and putting it back together inadvertently "fixed" the bad electrical connection ... please don't ruin a good story line ... ;) :D

Being as the fuel rail is inside the manifold if a injector to manifold o-ring leaks the leaking fuel will go into the intake ports. Should show on a fuel press test but don't recall any fuel press readings.

Dave

[Chaz]

That didn't take long ... :o

However , I'm happy to say ... that I've only owned those Lazer things long enough to snatch the injectors and harness out then throw the rest of it in the .44c a pound pile ... ;) :D

[TEXAS20225]

they beat carbs

[TEXAS20225]

but then i hate carbs:nonod: i really dont know what was wrong with this mans rebuilt motor but what ever it was if he found it he kept it to himself

[Chaz]

Bobby , that's cuz it was something simple .

Not everyone is man enough to slip their hand in the air and say they made a mistake ... ;)

[TEXAS20225]

charlie aint they all simple when it comes to light:rolleyes: im just as dumb as the next guy but we are all stupid its just about different things

[Dave Strong]

charlie aint they all simple when it comes to light:rolleyes: im just as dumb as the next guy but we are all stupid its just about different things

I don't think it's a matter of being stupid, but way to easy to overlook the simple things. When problems arise it seems the simple easy solutions get left till last. ;)

Dave :)

[Chaz]

Every time I lose something , it winds up being in the last place I look .... ;)

[Dave Strong]

Every time I lose something , it winds up being in the last place I look .... ;)

Ain't that the truth, or in my pocket. :eek:;)

Dave :)

[90 5.0]

That didn't take long ... :o

However , I'm happy to say ... that I've only owned those Lazer things long enough to snatch the injectors and harness out then throw the rest of it in the .44c a pound pile ... ;) :D


If if your throwing laser injections away I'll take one or two for an experiment LOL.

They have a longer Intake tract than a horn, great for low end punch on a heavy boat.

Think stock efi long runner intake vs a sheet metal box style. Or duel plane be victor jr ;)

[90 5.0]

I don't think it's a matter of being stupid, but way to easy to overlook the simple things. When problems arise it seems the simple easy solutions get left till last. ;)

Dave :)

I replaced triggers, stator , adjusted tps, ecu, rectifiers harness pieces etc etc over the span of about 3 months a few years back cause my motor wouldn't turn up anymore like it used too. Just didn't have the pull on top end.

Fuggin hot foot came out of adjustment. LOLOLOL

[TEXAS20225]

charlie thats a good one last place you looked LOL

[Chaz]

If ya cant laugh @ yur-self every once in a while , it's time to get off the couch and take a shot at life !
But if ya keep lookin for sumptin after ya found it , maybe it time for some "deep couch sitting"

5.0 , i think there's one i threw in a box .. you can have it , short of them 6 little lobster eyes staring up at ya .. .. ..