280 offshore vs 225 Promax

[dondante]

Pros and Cons

Acquired an Allison XB2003 with a low hour(150) 2000 280 offshore. I already own a 225 Promax.

Thinking of selling the 280 and dropping the 225 PM on the midsection of the 280.

What would you guys do? How much faster will the 280 really be over the 225PM?

[tux974]

It all depends on how fast you want to go or what type of boating you do or want to do!
I say the 280 will be approx 15mph faster.
150hrs if never opened is about due or due for a fresh up a minimum rering and it is also suggest top pinned pistons if is an early motor with side pin.
225PM on a 280 mid section will have a 1pc plate so the water dump/cooling system will need some attention and modding!
IMPO, 2 good motors so it all depends what you are looking for and willing to do.

[catfish123]

I have had both a 225X and a 280 ROS on my Allison XB2003 and on that boat, there is only about a 5 mph difference. The 280 is MUCH quicker out of the hole, and it has much more mid range punch. I would not expect to see a 15 mph difference.

[outasite]

As Tux said above.If the 280 has never been down its ready for around $1500/2000 freshening up,$3000 or more if needing Pistons.The pro max will take ya to 95+ with a good setup.All day every day.Your PM will go on the 280 mid,just be sure to keep the exhaust plates with the power head.------ Besides that, you should sell that PH to me:D

[LongShot]

Both good combinations. At 150 hours DO NOT run the 280 without checking condition of rings and plating. Sharp rings=smudged nik=$5500 rebuild.

[tux974]

I have had both a 225X and a 280 ROS on my Allison XB2003 and on that boat, there is only about a 5 mph difference. The 280 is MUCH quicker out of the hole, and it has much more mid range punch. I would not expect to see a 15 mph difference.

Interesting, 280ROS = 8200 box and only 5mph, wow! Maybe the boat or propping has something to do with it.....:confused:
Humm, I guess these 225 are stronger then I ever or originally thought.....:smiletest:


Both good combinations. At 150 hours DO NOT run the 280 without checking condition of rings and plating. Sharp rings=smudged nik=$5500 rebuild.

:iagree: with all above info!.....Look into it and address now or spend bigger $'s later!

[catfish123]

Just my real life personal experience. I had a very strong running 225X with 7300 limiter and could achieve speeds in the range of 5-7 mph more than most people were getting from a 225 Promax. I believe the top end is somewhat limited by the center console pushing down on the front of the boat and also by the courage of the driver. Best top end numbers were run by my son who has a lot more "courage" than I do.

[LongShot]

Just my real life personal experience. I had a very strong running 225X with 7300 limiter and could achieve speeds in the range of 5-7 mph more than most people were getting from a 225 Promax. I believe the top end is somewhat limited by the center console pushing down on the front of the boat and also by the courage of the driver. Best top end numbers were run by my son who has a lot more "courage" than I do.

Exactly. I have been 103 in an XB2003 with a strong 260 and it was stalling due to punching a big hole in the air.. The 280 would get it there quicker.....97-98 with a raised limiter 225 PM is a tough combination to beat day in day out.

[catfish123]

+1 :iagree:

[Greg G]

Just my real life personal experience. I had a very strong running 225X with 7300 limiter and could achieve speeds in the range of 5-7 mph more than most people were getting from a 225 Promax.

That's pretty interesting. Same fuel load, set-up, winds I assume.

[catfish123]

You assume correctly.

[catfish123]

XB 2003 - 225 promax 30 pitch Mazco RE3 = 94 MPH light wt.
XB 2003 - 2.5 SS 30 Pitch Mazco RE3 = 102 mph Light wt.
XTB 21 Prosport - Modified 225 promax 29 hydro =86 mph Loaded
XTB 21 Prosport - 300XS 30 pitch labbed Pro ET = 94 Loaded



I copied this off the Allison board on BBC..................this was posted by a member there of the speeds he has achieved, quite similar to my results.

[tux974]

XB 2003 - 225 promax 30 pitch Mazco RE3 = 94 MPH light wt.
XB 2003 - 2.5 SS 30 Pitch Mazco RE3 = 102 mph Light wt.
XTB 21 Prosport - Modified 225 promax 29 hydro =86 mph Loaded
XTB 21 Prosport - 300XS 30 pitch labbed Pro ET = 94 Loaded



I copied this off the Allison board on BBC..................this was posted by a member there of the speeds he has achieved, quite similar to my results.

Not personally familiar with these boats but interesting data!
So the XB with a 2.5 SS (280ROS 15") all things being equal is only 8 faster and the same for the XTB with a 3.0L XS with that type of documentation for me a good 225PM would be a no brainer!....:thumbsup:
I always knew the 225PM was my motor......;):D

[catfish123]

Undoubtedly, the holeshot, and acceleration with the 280 will STOMP the 225. HUGE difference in my opinion.

[tux974]

I guess if I was looking to drag race that would certainly matter!

[LongShot]

I think when the history of outboard motor development is written the 225 ProMax platform will go down as the best all around package ever assembled for 18-21' fishing/sport boats. I have one on my XTB 21 and the only thing it requires of me is good gas, good oil and a charged battery. I have complete faith when I go out it will get me back. After many years of 260's and having to make sure i had a tow rope in the boat it is comforting to have it. Of course my demand on the motor has lessened a bit with age too......those 260's caught heck every time out!!!

[tux974]

The constant wrenching to upkeep, not user friendly, coming home with scattered metal more then I care to remember, the big expenses on parts when things went wrong or every 100 hrs plus the labor did get old quickly for me! Like mention just the cost of renic if all else is fine except if you or someone got careless keeping up with rings....:eek:

[Greg G]

I have had both a 225X and a 280 ROS on my Allison XB2003 and on that boat, there is only about a 5 mph difference. The 280 is MUCH quicker out of the hole, and it has much more mid range punch. I would not expect to see a 15 mph difference.

I had both a 280SS and a 225 Promax and we put them both on the same dyno because I was curious and wanted to try and know as much as Ghost. These were both stock motors. The 280 pulled 282hp over multiple pulls and the Promax 225 pulled 246hp at 6500rpm.

[catfish123]

Agree :cheers:

[Dave Strong]

Not personally familiar with these boats but interesting data!
So the XB with a 2.5 SS (280ROS 15") all things being equal is only 8 faster and the same for the XTB with a 3.0L XS with that type of documentation for me a good 225PM would be a no brainer!....:thumbsup:
I always knew the 225PM was my motor......;):D

My 225PM is the most impressive motor ever owned. Out of the box it was dead even with the 245hp with a CLE vs 225PM and a torquemaster on the BAJA. Also uses half the fuel. :D;)

Dave:)

[dondante]

Yah. That's what I'm thinking about. The cost of admission and upkeep on the 280 just doesn't seem to be worth it to me. I can drop my Promax on the 280 offshore mid and still sound nasty and be pretty close to top speed. I'm not looking to bust 100 for any reason. That's put of my blood now that I've gotten older.

[tux974]

My 225PM is the most impressive motor ever owned. Out of the box it was dead even with the 245hp with a CLE vs 225PM and a torquemaster on the BAJA. Also uses half the fuel. :D;)

Dave:)

:iagree: IMPO, it is a motor with perfect weight to power ration and for the most part relatively simple......:thumbsup:


Yah. That's what I'm thinking about. The cost of admission and upkeep on the 280 just doesn't seem to be worth it to me. I can drop my Promax on the 280 offshore mid and still sound nasty and be pretty close to top speed. I'm not looking to bust 100 for any reason. That's put of my blood now that I've gotten older.

Heck, you will probably end up putting a few $'s in your pocket and still have some respectable performance according to the personal plus actual data/info guys have posted.....;)......:thumbsup:

[LongShot]

As mentioned before it is possible to swap the ProMax right over to the one piece adapter on the 280 mid.....BUT.....you will have much less pain and heartache keeping h powerheads and adapters married. The Offshore down housing is heavier and had no performance advantage over the bass mid. I would drill the can of the bass mid, if not already done, and ride.

[dondante]

I already pulled the can out of The Promax mid.

I'm not sure the performance of the 280 is worth the price of admission other than having the bad boy on back of my hull for bragging rights. Lol

[catfish123]

If you are ever "lined up" with an Allison that has a 280 on it, your opinion may change as quickly as it lets you sitting.................:eek: :cheers:

[90 5.0]

If you put the pm on the one piece plate you'll need to change the cooling routing on the pm or you won't get enough heat to the motor

[whipper]

I love my pm and you can get some goodies that make it even more potent that just bolt on relatively cheep. If your not interested in busting 100 then the 225 will be trouble free good power. if you like to hot rod i mean really hot rod around the 280 is the one. You can still beat 95+% of the boats out there with the 225 on an 03 just not another Allison with a 260/280 will be about it.

[David]

Acceleration is a lot of fun. I have a 225PM now and would not want a 280/260 due to the extra maintenance, but I get acceleration.

Just don't run the 280 and the 225 will seem fine.

[whipper]

Acceleration is a lot of fun. I have a 225PM now and would not want a 280/260 due to the extra maintenance, but I get acceleration.

Just don't run the 280 and the 225 will seem fine.


Thats actually the best advice yet. haha You wont know what your missing if you dont run the 280. Good one David!:iagree:

My 225 is a rocket ship on my 03 to me also. But I would keep the 280 for a lot of reasons. One is in about 4 or 5 years you might want to see what that difference is. Two, you own it now and wont have the expense of buying one to see the difference. That gives you lots of time to have a 280 fund put aside to get it freshened up and ready to roll on a stand for when that day {probably} will happen. 3 if your 225PM ever has a problem you will have a backup {spare} and wont be out any time boating except to for the few hrs it takes to clamp it on. #4 its worth more freshened up than with 150 hrs. it would be a shame to sell it as is. They are getting rare and a great motor and will always hold there value.

[Hank W]

It sucked to go from a Drag to a ProMax on my GS! Except of course for the price of race fuel and the overall fuel consumption of the Drag. With the prices these boats go for new or used, the maintenance on the NiCaSil motors seems okay to me. Like Longshot said, when you have a Hypo motor on one of these boats, it is hard not to hammer it, because it feels sooo good!
But on my Viper, the 200 ProMax is wonderful compared to the ole Bridgeport, especially when docking or trailering.

[W2F a V-King]

Does anyone here know how a 225 PM would perform on a properly set up, lightened Viking? Have read nothing but good reviews on the PM motors and will be shopping for a motor when my Viking is completed.
I have (it came with) a 2.5 175 and know that won't satisfy my desires :eek:.. May put that on my bass boat..

James

[16ft superboat]

Many buddy had a Vking with full interior. He ran 97-98 with a 2.4 225. I can see it running over 100 set up right.


Does anyone here know how a 225 PM would perform on a properly set up, lightened Viking? Have read nothing but good reviews on the PM motors and will be shopping for a motor when my Viking is completed.
I have (it came with) a 2.5 175 and know that won't satisfy my desires :eek:.. May put that on my bass boat..

James

[Dave Strong]

Many buddy had a Vking with full interior. He ran 97-98 with a 2.4 225. I can see it running over 100 set up right.

A 2.4 225 is really just a 7 petal 200, never touch a 225 PM in stock trim. Can see your buds boat breaking a 100 but not with 200 at the prop.

Dave

[dondante]

Well guys, I made the mistake of driving with the 280. Good grief.... what a motor and what a sound. I think I'll be keeping it. I handle all of my maintenance and rebuild. So the rering is no big deal to me. Couple hundred bucks in parts.

There's just no way I'm going back to the 225 PM at the moment.

Just the acceleration alone is insane.

I mean it's got less parts and electronics to deal with.

It's absolutely incredible to drive.

[Dave Strong]

Couple hundred bucks on a 280 rebuild, give me the name of your parts supplier. :D;)

Dave

[dondante]

Rering not "rebuild"

[Dave Strong]

Rering not "rebuild"

Rering for a couple hundred ????

Dave

[outasite]

Rings for the 280 are right around $600 for the rings only! BUT IMO worth the price.Let me rephrase that.Not worth the price, but worth the cost,just for the excitement factor.

[dondante]

US1 rings for a 280 are $150.

[patchesII]

US1 rings for a 280 are $150.

They won't be near the ring that the Mercury ring is. You can get the Merc ring for less than 600 if you find a friendly dealer. They are the best ones for the motor

[dondante]

I know many people that use them. Same result and same wear.

My family owned a dealership for 20 +years. OEM doesn't always mean better. See racers etc.

[patchesII]

I know many people that use them. Same result and same wear.

My family owned a dealership for 20 +years. OEM doesn't always mean better. See racers etc.

Do you know any racers running the US1 ring? Me either

[dondante]

Ummm the guy who owns US1 is John Marles. An F1 racer. Do you know who he is?

Do you have anything of substance to add or do you just like moving the goalpost and arguing about **** you know nothing about?

[Dave Strong]

Ummm the guy who owns US1 is John Marles. An F1 racer. Do you know who he is?

Do you have anything of substance to add or do you just like moving the goalpost and arguing about **** you know nothing about?

Take the rings out of the bill, seals , gaskets , o-rings cost a couple hundred bucks. A set of gold rings can't be bought for 150 for all 6 cyls. Can not even get them replated for that. :rolleyes:

Dave :leaving:

[dondante]

I'm not using gold rings.

I'm going through the front of the motor. As long as the bearings still look good I'll hold off replacing them until next refresh. I'll also check the bore. All of this is available to me already

I'll check the condition of the reeds when I pull the intake off.

[eli]

John At US1 sells me rings for 180 set for my 245's get same performance few more hours 117 last round
and the rings are little nicer to the bores than merc gold ,very little break in maybe a hour let er eat

[dondante]

John At US1 sells me rings for 180 set for my 245's get same performance few more hours 117 last round
and the rings are little nicer to the bores than merc gold ,very little break in maybe a hour let er eat

Yup. I know SEVERAL people using them and zero problems. I think a world champion Racer knows what he's doing. Much more than the people on this thread. :D

[90 5.0]

Yup. I know SEVERAL people using them and zero problems. I think a world champion Racer knows what he's doing. Much more than the people on this thread. :D

Eric might know just a little bit about mercs LOL

[patchesII]

Apparently not enough. Lol

[Coupe427]

Erik, since you obviously don't know better, go ahead and pack up all your stuff and the boat. I'll take it off your hands for you when I come up for the NCR. I'll make sure to call dondante with any maintenance issues that arise. Just go ahead and quit now.

[patchesII]

Lol. I should know better by now. I think I'll hang on to my junk for now. There's a certain race I'd like to win:)

[dondante]

I don't race and ive never said I was racing. It's on a heavy xb2003 not drag boat .

Some of you guys lack some serious reading comprehension skills.


Now, if you guys think you're more qualified than John with pistons and rings you should contact him. Or offer what you design and sell.

Are you guys designing, modifying or building piston, rings etc etc?

[patchesII]

The advice I offered up in my first post applies to nicasil motors, doesn't matter what they're on. Btw, you brought up racers, not me. Good luck with the new motor

[eli]

i think what dondante is saying is rings from john is affordable for most of us gear heads ,pistons too i cannot afford wizzard pistons
and gold rings ,i do like merc 2.5 engines and with guys like john i can continue to do so at a price than makes sense ,i do all my own assembly as most back yard motor heads all do
take my lowers apart to have shafts redone etc , John At US1 is a formula 1 champ so i think he might know the program! the problem i see with these little 2.5 mercs is they are so simple in design
and easy to work on everybody is a master with them and thats ok .

[RBT]

Yup. I know SEVERAL people using them and zero problems. I think a world champion Racer knows what he's doing. Much more than the people on this thread. :D


Whos the the world champion? And what series?

[Michael J Giesler]

Wow Erik yea you don't know what you talking about lol when it comes to trying out long-term run time on rings some of the blarney's racers have tried everything one the planet lol when it comes to nic blocks for chrome to wizards overseas products to us1 and all i have to say is the older wizards rings were good now they don't last the us1 were ok the mercury rings still last they may turn into razor blade with a ton of hours but still outlast the rest just my opinion