Help Needed! - ID This Old OB Race Boat

[Greg G]

Here is a bad picture of a boat a friend is trying to get some/any information on. Any of you folks recognize it? Looks like it has two old OB's on the back but not sure of the vintage.

Thanks in advance.

[Greg G]

At first I thought that the boat was Marina Seven II, but as I look closer, it actually looks like the race number is eleven and "11" is also on the side of the hull.

[2us70]

No helmets, basic Coast Guard life vests and a couple of Johnson V4s on the back. That must be a very old picture.

[Greg G]

No helmets, basic Coast Guard life vests and a couple of Johnson V4s on the back. That must be a very old picture.

Agree. I wonder if there is any way to get a rough idea on the age based on the style of the life vests. Too bad you can't make out the insignia on the flag. That would be a clue as well.

[lilabner]

ask Brownie,,It looks like something Jerry Langer or Howard Weiler would have run

From the Fiberglassic Site, Squall King

In 1961, Howard Weiler and Jim Thornton placed fourth overall and first among outboards in the Miami-Nassau power boat race. Especially calm conditions enabled the previous record for an outboard boat to be broken by more than 10 hours. He drove a 19' Squall King specially designed with Mike Navalany, productioon manager for Squall King Boats. Power was two 75-HP Johnson (http://www.fiberglassics.com/library/Johnson) outboard motors (May 29, 1961 Washington Reporter). Howard Weiler was president of Fibre Glass Evercoat Corp. of Florida which he started in September 1956, supplying fiberglass supplies to boat manufacturers including Squall King, Thunderbird (http://www.fiberglassics.com/library/Thunderbird), Scottie Craft (http://www.fiberglassics.com/library/Scottie_Craft), and American Marc (http://www.fiberglassics.com/library/American_Marc) (August 22, 1960, The Miami News).

Not saying this is the boat though, but it typical of what Jerry and Howard ran back then. The Nassau boat was named Wildcat, (from Searace)

[Greg G]

Interesting, but the boat that Jerry Langer and Davey Wilson custom rigged with the (3) OMC Outboards in Miami has a fair amount of documentation still surviving. That boat, which I believe is a 19 foot V, was raced in 1964 and 1965 with a lot of success. Thanks though, the boat in the photo is not the Langer/Wilson hull. I don't know anything about the Howard guy you mention.

[lilabner]

Ask Brownie..

[T2x]

The Donzi Brand didn't emerge until 1964.... so those are probably 90 horse Johnrudes on the back.....

[lilabner]

Brownie's answer..
"Dunno. Fred Darwick and I worked on this. Nothing. Might be my old “Donzi Daddy”, the first Hornet, rerigged."

It does appear to be a Donzi, going by the name on the back, and the motors look like 1966 100's.<o:p></o:p>

[GENE LANHAM]

No helmets, basic Coast Guard life vests. That must be a very old picture.


Standard gear, Jim---Miami to Nassau---1965

http://i62.tinypic.com/2hx2adv.jpg

[Greg G]

Interesting feedback all around. Thanks.

It looks like the "Marina Seven" race boat, based on the life vests and the V4 motors on the back, might be circa 1964 or 1965. It is hard to tell in the photo but the twin Johnson V4's do not look to have a gold stripe on top of the cowls. I thought that the 1964 "Golden Meteor" 90hp motors did have that stripe when they were introduced new to the public that year.

[GENE LANHAM]

. I don't know anything about the Howard guy you mention.

Howard Weiler: Finished the '500' in this 27' Magnum---1970


http://i59.tinypic.com/52fmgi.jpg

[Bob V]

Howard Weiler: Finished the '500' in this 27' Magnum---1970


http://i59.tinypic.com/52fmgi.jpg

Hi Gene - The name on that one sounds like a play on the old Tareyton cigarette logo: "I'd rather fight than switch."

In never knew that anyone took on the task of running one of each. Thanks for posting. :thumbsup:

[lilabner]

The only people running Johnrudes back then in the Ocean Races, that i can recall, were Howard and Jerry, and they were pals. And yes, Howard was quite a character..I met him around 1958..
The picture is bad, but to me they look like 100's. But if Gene, Freddie and Brownie don't know the boat, it must not be from around here. I was at war from 64-68 so I have no pictures.

Gene, that looks like one of my old CIA boats..

[GENE LANHAM]

Gene, that looks like one of my old CIA boats..

Butch---someday we will have to share some of our 'Bay of Pigs' stories---(what is the statute of limitations???)

[Bob V]

Butch---someday we will have to share some of our 'Bay of Pigs' stories---(what is the statute of limitations???)

OK...the statute of limitations has long run out. Time to spill the beans. Inquiring minds want to know...:eek:

[lilabner]

OK...the statute of limitations has long run out. Time to spill the beans. Inquiring minds want to know...:eek:

It didn't run out for me. I had a phone call one evening about 5 years ago by the last living current agent I worked with asking me to not mention certain names and places. I respect his request.

If you want the real story about the events leading up to and including the invasion, and the aftermath, read the book "Decision for Disaster" by Grayston Lynch, and dedicated to W. A. "Rip" Robertson. These are two of the finest men and Patriots I have ever known. They trained Brigade 2506, and were the first two men ashore, Gray firing the first shot and killing the first Cuban, after being ordered not to go ashore.
If you ever read the first Tom Clancy novels, I can only compare Rip with the character John Clark/Kelly. Rip was a Marine Officer, joined Dec8, 1941 from OCS, severely wounded on Saipan, came back to the states to heal and went back. He also severed in Korea. His story is something movies are made about. Gray was an Army Ranger Officer who climbed the cliffs at Normandy, also served in Korea.

But wait, Gene, is this thread still about WINGS? Funny how most of our friends ended up running weed and we ended up working on gun boats..

Lets have a few toddys at Tavares..

[Greg G]

...... so those are probably 90 horse Johnrudes on the back.


...... and the motors look like 1966 100's.


...... Looks like it has two old OB's on the back but not sure of the vintage.

.
I wasn't born back then but man you guys can pick stuff up! it's tough to tell from the photograph what exact year the Johnson motors are. Can't really tell if there are markings on them.
.

[Greg G]

Could the motors on the "Marina Seven" race boat possibly be the 75hp models as well from the same year, '64, '65, '66 ?

[lilabner]

Could be any of those years. Pictures are hard to come by. Did your friend buy the boat or does he just have a picture? There were very few OMC racers that would venture a rig like that back in the day. Most of them broke down. Langer and Weiler were the most successful in Florida.

[2us70]

The Weilers, Howard and his children Debbie and I think the son was named Tim raced around South Florida for several years. They would often show up with something different usually at a special event race. The "Fight and Switch" offshore boat was just one example. Because of his business everyone in the marine industry knew Howard.

[Greg G]

Just like Jerry Langer and Davey Wilson, there is a fair amount of data left out there on Howard Weiler and his incredible OB adventures. I'm sure if he had some type of active involvement in the "Marina Seven" race boat it would have surfaced by now, but nothing at all has.

We only have the one photo, but it is not Howard's boat and it is not one of Jerry's boats. Howard W seems to have run a North American Model S-22 "Wild Cat" (manufactured in Miami) most of the time with twin 1964 90s and Jerry and Davey started with a 19 foot Hornet with triple Johnson 90s and then Jerry switched over to a the 20 foot "Deaco Craft" with twin 100hp Evinrudes by February, 1966 (I believe) that he would run with both Davey and Barry Cordingley.

Florida is a big place so maybe something will pop up if it was a '64 or '65

[lilabner]

My friend Pat Eves, who was with OMC for about 30 years says they look like 90 or 100 Johnsons. He thinks the boat may be from the NY area. The boat looks like a Hornet to me and Brownie.

[lilabner]

I worked on Hornets at Holman Moody in the late 60's, most of them had 427 Fords with a vee drive and Velvet drive transmission. This boat looks to have a couple feet chopped off the back with the cockpit in the original place.

[Greg G]

My friend Pat Eves, who was with OMC for about 30 years says they look like 90 or 100 Johnsons. He thinks the boat may be from the NY area. The boat looks like a Hornet to me and Brownie.

Thanks for the feedback. Yep, agree the motors are Johnson V4s. The 100hp Johnson was not introduced until 1966 so I don't think that they are 100hp models. I'd say earlier. I think that the 90hp model was introduced in 1964. I'm thinking that the boat is a 1964 or a 1965 but who in New York metro would have had a race boat like that in '64/'65 ? All the outboard race action would have been either out West in Havasu or down in the greater Florida area I would think.

I got a hold of Sam James yesterday (ex-Bertram) and he gave me a suggestion of who might have some clues about "Marina Seven".

[lilabner]

[QUOTE= I'm thinking that the boat is a 1964 or a 1965 but who in New York metro would have had a race boat like that in '64/'65 ?

Don't let T2X see this post..

[Greg G]

I was under the impression that he was a 100% Mercury man. Perhaps I'm wrong.

[raymar]

By enlarging the photo on my computer I can read "DONZI" just above the last "1" of the number.

[T2x]

Thanks for the feedback. Yep, agree the motors are Johnson V4s. The 100hp Johnson was not introduced until 1966 so I don't think that they are 100hp models. I'd say earlier. I think that the 90hp model was introduced in 1964. I'm thinking that the boat is a 1964 or a 1965 but who in New York metro would have had a race boat like that in '64/'65 ? All the outboard race action would have been either out West in Havasu or down in the greater Florida area I would think.

I got a hold of Sam James yesterday (ex-Bertram) and he gave me a suggestion of who might have some clues about "Marina Seven".

I was on Long Island in those years and there was quite a bit of Offshore racing activity centered on the Around Long Island Marathon. K&K Outboard, Al Grover, Woodcleft Marine, American Finn, Port Washington Marine, Eltro Boats and a few others were, to varying degrees, invested in both OPC and Offshore racing, and I was as well. That being said, I do not remember anything called Marina Seven. That doesn't mean there wasn't something in the NY/NJ/CT/New England area with that name, but I never heard of it. Could we be way off base and be looking at a California or Bermuda boat?...Perhaps even a Midwest team , as there was a race from Chicago to New Buffalo, IN on Lake Michigan back then....

[T2x]

[QUOTE= I'm thinking that the boat is a 1964 or a 1965 but who in New York metro would have had a race boat like that in '64/'65 ?

Don't let T2X see this post..

We had our share :D

[FUJIMO]

I worked on Hornets at Holman Moody in the late 60's, most of them had 427 Fords with a vee drive and Velvet drive transmission. This boat looks to have a couple feet chopped off the back with the cockpit in the original place.
Your right Butch. All the Donzi's were inboards then, with a "very" few exceptions of sterndrive(s). An inboard boat needed to be modified for outboards, which was basicly frowned upon in those days, as it was thought to have "cheapened" the boat. What you older guys are forgetting, but I know you remember, is that it was discovered by Dick Cole, Richard Bertram, and many others...was that the farthur you sat towards the transom in rough water, the more tolerant the ride. This went for inboards and outboards alike. Hence, the aft helms/cockpits. Remember?;)

[FUJIMO]

I had a phone call one evening about 5 years ago by the last living current agent I worked with asking me to not mention certain names and places.

Think he's still around? You can tell us everything now. We won't repeat anything. ;)

[99fxst99]

Was it not Jerry Langer on the back cover of the 1968 Evinrude catalog with the X-115s?.....X-115, one of the most attractive outboards ever built...IMHO..

[FUJIMO]

Howard Weiler: Finished the '500' in this 27' Magnum---1970


http://i59.tinypic.com/52fmgi.jpg
Remember Howard Weilers 27 Magnum well. It was during the factory horsepower wars, at the corporate level, and at the publics perception level. What brand you prefered was important & people were glad to tell you why. Howards triple Chrysler/Mercury/Johnson outboards were 125 horsepower each. An in-line four, an inline six...and a V-4. Of course, we all said at the time, that the Merc had to go in the middle because it was the most powerful. ;) (no...seriously, lol))

[Greg G]

Your right Butch. All the Donzi's were inboards then, with a "very" few exceptions of sterndrive(s). An inboard boat needed to be modified for outboards, which was basicly frowned upon in those days, as it was thought to have "cheapened" the boat.

Jerry Langer's Donzi was a factory boat that Don A supplied him. I have no idea if they were pals or not in 1964, as I was still a figment of my parents imagination. It was a 19' Hornet and was delivered very early in 1965. Now, to your specific point of "needing to be modified" I'm pretty confident that Jerry Langer's Hornet had the splash well done at the Donzi factory but there is probably only one guy left on earth that would know that for sure. Langer rigged that 19' Hornet at his Miami Beach dealership for triple Evinrude 90hp wackers with Davey Wilson after hours. Davey was 15 years younger than Jerry. They raced the boat against a lot of bigger inboard boats and beat 'em.

The Langer Hornet may offer a clue to help ID the "Marina Seven" race boat pictured below............

[Greg G]

By enlarging the photo on my computer I can read "DONZI" just above the last "1" of the number.

Good grab on the letters. If the "Marina Seven" race boat was in fact a Donzi it would sync up to what lilabner and Mr. Brown thought it was as well. If that is true, it would have to be '64 or '65 hull though based on what folks have said about the OB's on the back. Not much reason to put Donzi on the side of a boat that was NOT actually one back then.

[lilabner]

Only other persons might know the hull are Bob Warwork at Raveau, and Tom Sheldon in Melrose, Fl. Tom is from Miami and raced there for years.

[Greg G]

Only other persons might know the hull are Bob Warwork at Raveau, and Tom Sheldon in Melrose, Fl. Tom is from Miami and raced there for years.

Thanks. I will try and contact them. A good addition to what Sam James suggested to me. Sam concluded our brief conversation about who I should probe with "if he's still sucking air" !

[Bob V]

Howard Weiler: Finished the '500' in this 27' Magnum---1970


http://i59.tinypic.com/52fmgi.jpg


Food for thought....Assume that this boat won a major event. Which one of the Big Three would jump to the front of the line to take the credit ???

[Greg G]

I was on Long Island in those years and there was quite a bit of Offshore racing activity centered on the Around Long Island Marathon. K&K Outboard, Al Grover, Woodcleft Marine, American Finn, Port Washington Marine, Eltro Boats and a few others were, to varying degrees, invested in both OPC and Offshore racing, and I was as well. That being said, I do not remember anything called Marina Seven. That doesn't mean there wasn't something in the NY/NJ/CT/New England area with that name, but I never heard of it. Could we be way off base and be looking at a California or Bermuda boat?...Perhaps even a Midwest team , as there was a race from Chicago to New Buffalo, IN on Lake Michigan back then....

Thanks T2x, I had no idea you were racing in our area back in 1964/1965, sorry!

I agree with you, the "Marina Seven" boat would have been hard for you (and others) not to remember especially running Johnson twins. It is not a West Coast boat for sure. Midwest or Bermuda is possible. Sam James suggested we contact Charlie McCarthy. I sent an email to him through his site a few days ago, but I have not gotten anything back from him. He probably gets this type of request every week and can't be bothered. Mr. James told me on the phone that McCarthy had been given a very large cache of old race boat photos from a noted marine photographer (name escapes me) before the gent passed and he might have something on Marina Seven.

[T2x]

Your right Butch. All the Donzi's were inboards then, with a "very" few exceptions of sterndrive(s). An inboard boat needed to be modified for outboards, which was basicly frowned upon in those days, as it was thought to have "cheapened" the boat. ;)

That was also true for inshore closed course racing...Some of that prejudice, sadly, still exists to this day.

[T2x]

Thanks T2x, I had no idea you were racing in our area back in 1964/1965, sorry!

I agree with you, the "Marina Seven" boat would have been hard for you (and others) not to remember especially running Johnson twins. It is not a West Coast boat for sure. Midwest or Bermuda is possible. Sam James suggested we contact Charlie McCarthy. I sent an email to him through his site a few days ago, but I have not gotten anything back from him. He probably gets this type of request every week and can't be bothered. Mr. James told me on the phone that McCarthy had been given a very large cache of old race boat photos from a noted marine photographer (name escapes me) before the gent passed and he might have something on Marina Seven.

I am not sure that Charlie was racing Offshore in '64 or '65. He got those pictures from the late John Crouse, who took many of those shots himself, and also acquired the photo library of Ron Thibodeaux, his friend and colleague.

[lilabner]

Think he's still around? You can tell us everything now. We won't repeat anything. ;)

You have to buy the book, he is still around.

[Greg G]

I am not sure that Charlie was racing Offshore in '64 or '65. He got those pictures from the late John Crouse, who took many of those shots himself, and also acquired the photo library of Ron Thibodeaux, his friend and colleague.

Bingo, T2x ......... Thibodeaux was the name that Sam mentioned. And yes, he said that Charlie McCarthy had somehow become the final custodian of a tremendous number of vintage race photographs from a wide variety of sources and had taken very good care of all of them over the years. It sounds like this guy Charlie might have the single largest stash of old race boat photos on earth even though he was not old enough to be racing in 1964 as you say. Good to see that someone is caring for that old stuff. Maybe somewhere in the 1,000's of photos he has is something that would ID the "Marina Seven" race boat.

On a side note, he should digitize them as film won't last forever, but I digress.

[GENE LANHAM]

S-22?

Hank Bowman---shortly before he was killed at the Stadium, 1963

http://i62.tinypic.com/slirvb.jpg

[Greg G]

You think that "Marina Seven" is a North American S-22?

[GENE LANHAM]

You think that "Marina Seven" is a North American S-22?

Hmmm??? NO---same time period, though----

http://i61.tinypic.com/33wsc53.jpg


http://i59.tinypic.com/zygfhw.jpg

[Greg G]

I agree, the North American 2-22 has vastly different lines than the Marina Seven boat.

I still think that Marina Seven is '64 or '65. Here is picture of a North American S-22 I dug up with twins on it from October, 1964. This is Howard Weiler's "Wildcat" S-22 that he raced. The motors on the back of Howard's boat (90hp Johnsons) look pretty darn close cosmetically to the motors on the back of "Marina Seven".

[lilabner]

S-22?

Hank Bowman---shortly before he was killed at the Stadium, 1963

http://i62.tinypic.com/slirvb.jpg

Another CIA boat model..

[Greg G]

Side by side shot ............

[GENE LANHAM]

Side by side shot ............

Another pic (cover) by Sal Magueri---died way too soon---

http://i61.tinypic.com/11rvivp.jpg

[lilabner]

Another pic (cover) by Sal Magueri---died way too soon---

http://i61.tinypic.com/11rvivp.jpg

He sure did. He covered just about every race around here.

[lilabner]

V20 on the beach in Cuba. Very much like an S22. Everything was popped back then.

[GENE LANHAM]

V20 on the beach in Cuba. Very much like an S22. Everything was popped back then.


The V-20's we did came from George B.----

[GENE LANHAM]

He sure did. He covered just about every race around here.

Another---

Sal Magueri/Acme Photo

http://i57.tinypic.com/24edvup.jpg

[FUJIMO]

I'll have to say, I'm rather surprised at the braintrust on this board. That the original poster can't get any information, that is.

[lilabner]

I'll have to say, I'm rather surprised at the braintrust on this board. That the original poster can't get any information, that is.

OMC engines..Old Mens Club...who may know is probably dead..

[GENE LANHAM]

I'll have to say, That the original poster can't get any information, that is.


You mean accurate information. Greg G is getting lots of information, the rest of us are getting a fuzzy history lesson on events and activities that happened over fifty years ago---

[Greg G]

Brownie's answer........"Dunno. Fred Darwick and I worked on this. Nothing. Might be my old “Donzi Daddy”, the first Hornet, rerigged."

It does appear to be a Donzi, going by the name on the back, and the motors look like 1966 100's.


I have read back over this thread a number of times as you never know were you can pick up a bread crumb. In doing that, I came back to your post and information lilabner. I don't know any of you, never mind Mr. Brown but I dug this photo up of what Brownie referenced. The lines of the "Marina Seven" look very much like the first Donzi Hornet ever built. Mr. Brown's single engine Hornet 19 v-drive "Donzi Daddy" that placed 8th in the November 6, 1964 "Miami-to-Key West" ocean race with Alan Brown as pilot.

[Greg G]

You mean accurate information. Greg G is getting lots of information, the rest of us are getting a fuzzy history lesson on events and activities that happened over fifty years ago---

50 years is a long, long time ago. Any info is good info for sure.

[Greg G]

Now, given Brownie was at the helm of the first 19' Donzi Hornet ever built at the November Miami Key West race and it was 1964, the "Marina Seven" boat could not have been his specific boat re-rigged with twin outboards ALSO in 1964. Donzi was not even launched by Don A until July, 1964. Anyone know what specific date was the 1964 Miami Key West race? Had to be late.

[GENE LANHAM]

Anyone know what specific date was the 1964 Miami Key West race? Had to be late.

Always in November----'Searace' shows November 6, 1964----

[GENE LANHAM]

Narrowing down to 'Donzi'??

http://i60.tinypic.com/25gwc5e.jpg

[Greg G]

Narrowing down to 'Donzi'??

Yes, I believe so.

Between the faint letters and, more importantly, the visual lines of the hull, I think that the "Marina Seven" boat is a Donzi. It can't be a 1964 hull though as there was only one factory hull built by November '64 and that was being campaigned by Alan Brown in the November (same month every year as you say Gene) 1964 Miami-to-Key West race.

The boat has to be a bit later I would think..........but probably not by much

[FUJIMO]

Want a little hint, as to what/where/who, this boat is...exactly?

[Greg G]

Want a little hint, as to what/where/who, this boat is...exactly?

I found a big piece of info late last night so I think I know that answer. Right now though, it's off to church!

[Greg G]

Want a little hint, as to what/where/who, this boat is...exactly?

Ok, ok to keep your hint very small and have some fun ............. is the single letter " X " involved in the identification of the race boat in some form/fashion?

[Greg G]

If I take the great high res picture of Jerry Langer's Donzi 19 Hornet and kindergarten reverse it using MS Paint, you can see that the "Marina Seven" hull is the same model hull.
Langer was working with a bare bones Donzi factory 19' hull in 1965. He improvised and fashioned a canvas deck instead of carrying the weight of the Hornet's glass deck.
Smart move by the competitive/creative Langer and Davey Wilson as I bet that saved them 400lbs?

98% positive that they are both Donzi Hornet 19's and that neither were built in 1964.

[lilabner]

Greg,

Since you aren't from around the Miami area, 1960's era, you shouldn't be making assumptions that something had to be built by the rules, and documented as such. We had so many boat companies popping and building, for race boats, drug boats, CIA boats, etc. Since Aronow owned Donzi from the get go, and he liked to fill his trunk with Bennies, no telling how many he built and when. If a boat was brought to market, usually at a big boat show, it had been well tested. Usually a boat that small may have had a couple test hulls made. In Aronow's book is a picture of Brownie and Skip Carrol running in the 64 Miami-Key West race in a 19' Hornet. That means they were probably first built in late 63 early 64. The race was on Nov 6, 1964. There were five Donzi prototypes running. The Hornet was one of them.
My point being you can't look at a boat and tell when it was built.

[T2x]

Bingo, T2x ......... Thibodeaux was the name that Sam mentioned. And yes, he said that Charlie McCarthy had somehow become the final custodian of a tremendous number of vintage race photographs from a wide variety of sources and had taken very good care of all of them over the years. It sounds like this guy Charlie might have the single largest stash of old race boat photos on earth even though he was not old enough to be racing in 1964 as you say. Good to see that someone is caring for that old stuff. Maybe somewhere in the 1,000's of photos he has is something that would ID the "Marina Seven" race boat.

On a side note, he should digitize them as film won't last forever, but I digress.

Charlie is certainly old enough to have raced in '64, but I believe that he was still racing OPC boats in New England at that time.

[T2x]

Another CIA boat model..

I believe Hank was killed in January 1966 (not '63) at the Orange Bowl Regatta. My oldest son's middle name is Bowman in honor of Hank.

[GENE LANHAM]

I believe Hank was killed in January 1966 (not '63) at the Orange Bowl Regatta. My oldest son's middle name is Bowman in honor of Hank.

Rich, I believe you are right:)

Researching the '66 issue of 'Boating', I found this---lots of familiar names in the 1965 Miami/KW race--- including Knocky driving an 18' Crosby with 2 90 Johnrudes----??


http://i57.tinypic.com/23rl9ab.jpg

[Greg G]

In Aronow's book is a picture of Brownie and Skip Carrol running in the 1964 Miami-Key West race in a 19' Hornet. That means they were probably first built in late 63 early 64. The race was on Nov 6, 1964.

Post up the picture with AB and Skip Carrol you have from November, 1964.

[lilabner]

Post up the picture with AB and Skip Carrol you have from November, 1964.
Here it is..You have started a great thread. Us old farts can't find squat..

[Greg G]

Here it is..You have started a great thread. Us old farts can't find squat..

Great hi res picture, thanks.

[Greg G]

Greg,

Since you aren't from around the Miami area, 1960's era, you shouldn't be making assumptions that something had to be built by the rules, and documented as such. We had so many boat companies popping and building, for race boats, drug boats, CIA boats, etc. Since Aronow owned Donzi from the get go, and he liked to fill his trunk with Bennies, no telling how many he built and when. If a boat was brought to market, usually at a big boat show, it had been well tested. Usually a boat that small may have had a couple test hulls made. In Aronow's book is a picture of Brownie and Skip Carrol running in the 64 Miami-Key West race in a 19' Hornet. That means they were probably first built in late 63 early 64. The race was on Nov 6, 1964. There were five Donzi prototypes running. The Hornet was one of them.
My point being you can't look at a boat and tell when it was built.

IMO there is zero chance that any 19' Hornet was laid up in late 1963 or early 1964. Donzi did not exist in early 1964. The Hornet 19' was an original design that was done about the time of the sale of Formula to Thunderbird. Waltman Walters can attest to that. The "#69 Hornet 19" boat that Alan Brown and Skip Carrol ran in the November 6, 1964 Miami-to-Key West race was the first 19 that was laid up. Could I be wrong? Yes, I was not born yet. BUT ask Alan "Brownie" Brown and I believe he will say I am right. The other 4 hulls that ran in that race were 28's.

[FUJIMO]

I can't take it any longer...:nonod: The original posters raceboat in question, was owned by an old family friend that had simular interests/investments in waterfront homes, both in the great white north and southeast Florida, the marina business, and collecting antique wood boats, as my family. He had many real estate income properties in the Ft. Lauderdale area. He started the Clayton New York Antique Boat Museum in the 60's, as well as the Antique Boat Show there as well. He had a summer home there, on Grindstone Island. He was instrumental in starting & promoting for years, the very first Ft. Lauderdale Boat Shows. He was the Mayor of Ft. Lauderdale & was on the Lauderdale City Commission for two decades. And on & on. He was an initial investor in a new marina on west Lauderdales State Road 84 on the New River, that was "seven" miles to the ocean and open "seven" days a week, that was specifically designed for outboarders only, and that had 64 boat slips and a ramp. He was one of only two Formula/Donzi dealers in 1965 in South Florida, the other being Challenger Marine on Biscayne Blvd, in North Miami. He past away in 2013, one year after his wife, at age 95. His name was Bob Cox...and he also started(and his family still owns & operates) Lauderdale Marina, in 1948. Bob and his Marina General Manager, Ed Joyce raced in a number of Offshore races in 1965. In 1965 alone, they entered and won...the St. Petersburg 50 Mile Ocean Race, The Pelican Harbour 100 mile GulfStream Regatta, the Orange Bowl Regatta, and the Sam Griffith Memorial. They also raced, and placed third, in the Miami-Nassau race. The boat was a 1965 19 Donzi Hornet outboard with twin Johnson Super Sea-Horse V-4 75's.

[lilabner]

IMO there is zero chance that any 19' Hornet was laid up in late 1963 or early 1964. Donzi did not exist in early 1964. The Hornet 19' was an original design that was done about the time of the sale of Formula to Thunderbird. Waltman Walters can attest to that. The "#69 Hornet 19" boat that Alan Brown and Skip Carrol ran in the November 6, 1964 Miami-to-Key West race was the first 19 that was laid up. Could I be wrong? Yes, I was not born yet. BUT ask Alan "Brownie" Brown and I believe he will say I am right. The other 4 hulls that ran in that race were 28's.

i guess you have it all figured out..Who is it? And are they actually racing?

[FUJIMO]

Rich, I believe you are right:)

Researching the '66 issue of 'Boating', I found this---lots of familiar names in the 1965 Miami/KW race--- including Knocky driving an 18' Crosby with 2 90 Johnrudes----??


http://i57.tinypic.com/23rl9ab.jpg
Norris(Knocky) House & his wife Val(Valerie) were(and Val still is)my neighbors for many, many years. They owned/operated Knocky's Boats & Knocky's Propeller Service, in Hollywood, Florida. Can't tell you how many years I followed them out of the neigborhood at 6:30 am, to head for the highway, in her old 1965 dark green El Camino. with big yellow "Knocky's Propeller's" down the sides. Norris died in November, 2001.

[FUJIMO]

i guess you have it all figured out..Who is it? And are they actually racing?
What the heck are you doing up so late Butch? lol

[lilabner]

What the heck are you doing up so late Butch? lol

Waiting for you to spill the beans..Thanks, now I can go to sleep..
Lots of old friends at Knocky's funeral..

[Greg G]

Want a little hint, as to what/where/who, this boat is...exactly?


Ok, ok to keep your hint very small and have some fun ............. is the single letter " X " involved in the identification of the race boat in some form/fashion?


I can't take it any longer. The original posters race boat was owned by an old family friend. His name was Bob Cox. Bob and his Marina General Manager, Ed Joyce raced in a number of Offshore races in 1965. They also raced, and placed third, in the Miami-Nassau race. The boat was a 1965 19 Donzi Hornet outboard with twin Johnson Super Sea-Horse V-4 75's.

That is correct Fujimo. The X gave it away.

Bob Cox & Ed Joyce ran the "Marina Seven" boat. Ted D was not familiar with the background when I asked him but said if Bob were still with us he would have all the vivid details. Ad below.
.

[Greg G]

Here is a more detailed piece I put together on the April 12, 1965 Miami-to-Nassau race results.

Notice that both Bob Cox & Ed Joyce (in "Marina Seven") as well as Jerry Langer ran in that particular race and both in Donzi 19 Hornets. Cox ran twin Johnsons, while Langer rigged his with triple Evinrudes. If you look closely however, for some reason one is called "Production" while the other is called "Prototype" ?

Anyone know?

[GENE LANHAM]

I'll have to say, I'm rather surprised at the braintrust on this board. That the original poster can't get any information, that is.

I am embarrassed. I consider myself part of this board. But I never knew Bob Cox or Ed Joyce, and I knew or had raced with so many other entrants in that 1965 Miami/Nassau race----


http://i62.tinypic.com/2v1b14x.jpg

[Greg G]

I am embarrassed. I consider myself part of this board. But I never knew Bob Cox or Ed Joyce, and I knew or had raced with so many other entrants in that 1965 Miami/Nassau race----

There is not a lot of info out there on either of them on the race side of things. Wow ....... you were there and raced in that exact same race back in 1965 Mr. Lanham?

[GENE LANHAM]

There is not a lot of info out there on either of them on the race side of things. Wow ....... you were there and raced in that exact same race back in 1965 Mr. Lanham?

post #10??

http://i57.tinypic.com/2ytqrr8.jpg

[Greg G]

.
Ok, I lost focus on the fact that you were not only in the 1965 Miami-Nassau race with Bob Cox and Ed Joyce (came in 24th overall) but you were at the helm of Miss Pinky II that placed 31st.

Got it.

[GENE LANHAM]

.
Ok, but you were at the helm of Miss Pinky II that placed 31st.

It took a few years, better equipment, and Doc Magoon at the helm---to improve the Miami/Nassau finish position----

http://i58.tinypic.com/2u5q45d.jpg

http://i59.tinypic.com/fcjvy1.jpg

[Greg G]

I am embarrassed but I never knew Bob Cox or Ed Joyce, and I knew or had raced with so many other entrants in that 1965 Miami/Nassau race.


There is not a lot of info out there on either of them on the race side of things.


Brownie's answer ....... "Dunno. Fred Darwick and I worked on this. Nothing. Might be my old Donzi Daddy, the first Hornet, re-rigged."

.
Many of you were in good company seeing as Alan Brown also did not recognize the Marina Seven race boat, and he was there as well back in the day.

[FUJIMO]

This is the Restaurant(15th Street Fisheries), the gas dock, the bait & tackle shop, an a portion of the Yacht brokerage offices, at the east end of Lauderdale Marina nowadays, that Bob started in 1948, that his current family still owns & operates.https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTugpiYbDcrd24oRz0ll08lyGcnsEtRdk9HSTSn0tvUHXkHYEHb

[Greg G]

This is the Restaurant (15th Street Fisheries), the gas dock, the bait & tackle shop, an a portion of the Yacht brokerage offices, at the east end of Lauderdale Marina nowadays, that Bob started in 1948, that his current family still owns & operates.

I spoke to Ted Drum in my research. Helpful and nice but did not know anything about the Marina Seven boat. I always thought that Cox's Lauderdale Marina was the first Boston Whaler dealer. I never knew that they were a Donzi dealer in 1965 as you mentioned, never mind one of the first two in Florida.

[Greg G]

I can't take it any longer. The original posters race boat in question, "Marina Seven", was owned by an old family friend that had simular interests/investments in waterfront homes, both in the great white north and southeast Florida, the marina business, and collecting antique wood boats, as my family. He had many real estate income properties in the Ft. Lauderdale area. He started the Clayton New York Antique Boat Museum in the 60's, as well as the Antique Boat Show there as well. He had a summer home there, on Grindstone Island. He was instrumental in starting & promoting for years, the very first Ft. Lauderdale Boat Shows. He was the Mayor of Ft. Lauderdale & was on the Lauderdale City Commission for two decades. And on & on. He was an initial investor in a new marina on west Lauderdales State Road 84 on the New River, that was "seven" miles to the ocean and open "seven" days a week, that was specifically designed for outboarders only, and that had 64 boat slips and a ramp. He was one of only two Formula/Donzi dealers in 1965 in South Florida, the other being Challenger Marine on Biscayne Blvd, in North Miami. He past away in 2013, one year after his wife, at age 95. His name was Bob Cox...and he also started (and his family still owns & operates) Lauderdale Marina, in 1948. Bob and his Marina General Manager, Ed Joyce raced in a number of Offshore races in 1965. In 1965 alone, they entered and won...the St. Petersburg 50 Mile Ocean Race, The Pelican Harbour 100 mile GulfStream Regatta, the Orange Bowl Regatta, and the Sam Griffith Memorial. They also raced, and placed third, in the Miami-Nassau race. The boat was a 1965 19 Donzi Hornet outboard with twin Johnson Super Sea-Horse V-4 75's.

You must have been sitting on a lot of good info since I asked for help in ID'ing the boat from the picture. Not a lot of info on Ed Joyce either out there :(

[FUJIMO]

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTWzY_W0H1ErAnU0H0HX1bkZQJ1oFulHD0pFhWPwqbeHT391-5irABottom center is a portion of Bob's Lauderdale Marina. Port Everglades pretty much the whole top half of the photo. Inlet with a cargo ship leaving, top left. Pier 66 marina, etc., on the left, this side of bridge. Its in new owners hands now, but Bob owned the commercial property on the other side of the 17th Street bridge, on the left. Back in the 70's, Bob mentioned to us that he made more money every month in rent on that, than he originally paid for the property. Coincidentally, my neighbor Brien & his dad control that same strip of land on the Intracoastal today. I think they paid 12 large for it. They are going to develop it into a phenominal marina "based" development, called "The Sails". www.TheSails.com (http://www.TheSails.com) It takes many years to develop here these days.

[Greg G]

Ed Joyce must have been a unique dude in his own right. 1963 he ran an OB boat from Florida to New York Harbor & hit ice along the way. Not the "Marina Seven" as the Donzi 19 wasn't built yet.

[FUJIMO]

Ed Joyce was a VERY accomplished man himself. With and without his friend Bob.

[Greg G]

Now I'm kinda into it so I'm going to continue the Hunt for Red October.

There is evidently a lot of info on Ed Joyce, Bob Cox and the Marina Seven boat in the June 1965 issue of Popular Boating Magazine. Does anyone happen to have that issue hanging around?
.

[Greg G]

His name was Bob Cox. Bob and his Marina General Manager, Ed Joyce raced in a number of Offshore races. In 1965 alone, they entered and won........the St. Petersburg 50 Mile Ocean Race, The Pelican Harbour 100 mile Gulf Stream Regatta, the Orange Bowl Regatta, and the Sam Griffith Memorial. They also placed third in the '65 Miami-Nassau race. The boat was a 1965 19 Donzi Hornet outboard.

FUJIMO, where did you get the information on the first two races you reference above?

[lilabner]

.
Many of you were in good company seeing as Alan Brown also did not recognize the Marina Seven race boat, and he was there as well back in the day.

Brownie and Gene are old, I was in Okinawa..but are all in semi dementia now..:D But havin fun!!!

[GENE LANHAM]

Brownie's answer..
"Dunno. Fred Darwick and I worked on this. Nothing. Might be my old “Donzi Daddy”, the first Hornet, rerigged."

<o:p></o

Fred Darwick and my sister Judy Darwick may have been the first to race a Donzi--??

http://i59.tinypic.com/6ymzvq.jpg

[Greg G]

Fred Darwick and my sister Judy Darwick may have been the first to race a Donzi--??

Mr. Lanham, wow ...... what year and what race is that picture you posted and who is driving that 16 ?

[GENE LANHAM]

Mr. Lanham, wow ...... what year and what race is that picture you posted and who is driving that 16 ?

Orange Bowl Regatta 9 hour. January 1965. Fred finished 21st and first in class--that
is the boat that started the advertising campaign--'Not So Fast--Did Last'

http://i62.tinypic.com/2l9ld0w.jpg

[Greg G]

Orange Bowl Regatta 9 hour. January 1965. Fred finished 21st and first in class--that is the boat that started the advertising campaign--'Not So Fast--Did Last'

I thought it might have been the January 2, 1965 "Orange Bowl Regatta 9 Hour" Endurance Race "Class A" win.

What's interesting is the number on the side of the boat in the two different photos. #17 in your picture and #11 in the factory advertisement photo? Evidently, Bob Cox also had a 16 in addition to the Hornet 19 OB that he and Ed Joyce campaigned but I need that June, 1965 issue of Popular Boating to get more info on that.

[GENE LANHAM]

I thought it might have been the January 2, 1965 "Orange Bowl Regatta 9 Hour" Endurance Race "Class A" win.

What's interesting is the number on the side of the boat in the two different photos. #17 in your picture and #11 in the factory advertisement photo?

Fred explains the number discrepancy:

11 was the year we won..1965.


The #17 was the next year and when Hank Bowman was run over by his NA 22' the race was Black Flagged.

Hence the invention of the 'kill switch'.

[GENE LANHAM]

Greg G ---you have this one???

http://i57.tinypic.com/8yubk1.jpg

[Greg G]

Brownie and Gene are old, I was in Okinawa..but are all in semi dementia now..:D But havin fun!!!

Well, I can only hope I'm doing as well as the three of you at pulling up old details thirty years from now!

[Greg G]

Fred explains the number discrepancy:

11 was the year we won..1965.


The #17 was the next year and when Hank Bowman was run over by his NA 22' the race was Black Flagged.

Hence the invention of the 'kill switch'.

Yes, I have seen that one. It is very possible that Bob Cox's "Marina Seven" race boat was delivered to him and Ed Joyce as a St. Tropez. The Hornet 19 and St. Tropez 19 hulls are identical.

Mr. Darwick's note to you makes perfect sense so that explains it! That specific 16 was delivered by the factory in December of 1964. You can tell by looking closely at the photos that the hull was the exact same 16 Ski Sporter entered in both Orange Bowl 9 Hour Races by Fred. The stickers show the American flag first followed by Sweden, a tribute to the new partnership with Volvo?

Then, I noticed that Bob Cox's "Lauderdale Marine" is listed as one of the two Donzi dealers in the ad.

Now, I wonder if Bob Cox got the next 16 Ski Sporter off the assembly line or if the 19 Hornet outboard came to him first?

[Greg G]

I believe this is the cover from the January 1965 Orange Bowl Regatta .................... and the 1966 Regatta

[Greg G]

His name was Bob Cox. Bob and his Marina General Manager, Ed Joyce raced in a number of Offshore races. In 1965 alone, they entered and won........

The St. Petersburg 50 Mile Ocean Race
The Pelican Harbour 100 mile Gulf Stream Regatta
The Orange Bowl Regatta
The Sam Griffith Memorial

They also placed third in the '65 Miami-Nassau race. The boat was a 1965 19 Donzi Hornet outboard.

FUJIMO, where did you get the information on the first two races you reference above? I can't find anything about Bob and Ed on those two from 1965?

[Greg G]

For those of you from South Florida, does the name Joe Daoub ring any bells from the mid 1960's ?

[lilabner]

do you mean Jody Doud?

[Greg G]

I don't believe so, I think the spelling is Daoub. Did Jody race in the area in '64 '65 '66 ?

[lilabner]

He didn't race

[Greg G]

Joe Daoub or Daoud evidently raced with Bob Cox and Ed Joyce in several of the 1965 races.

He was from Miami so I figured I would throw it out there to see if it rang any 50 year old bells amongst you all and led to more Cox/Joyce stuff as FUJIMO has gone silent lol.

[Greg G]

I continue to poke around on the topic of Bob Cox and the "Marina Seven" 19' race boat..........

In researching it, I think that Bob and Ed Joyce (commented on below) winning the 1965 Sam Griffith Memorial "Outboard Class" is actually NOT correct. That particular race was actually won by Jerry Langer and Davey Wilson running Evinrudes in the OB Class. That still leaves the three other races to check out.

Picture of Wilson (L) and Langer below.

His name was Bob Cox. Bob and his Marina General Manager, Ed Joyce raced in a number of Offshore races. In 1965 alone, they entered and won........

The St. Petersburg 50 Mile Ocean Race
The Pelican Harbour 100 mile Gulf Stream Regatta
The Orange Bowl Regatta
The Sam Griffith Memorial

They also placed third in the '65 Miami-Nassau race. The boat was a 1965 19 Donzi Hornet outboard.

[Greg G]

do you mean Jody Doud?


I don't believe so, I think the spelling is Daoub.

In doing some more research, I believe you are correct lilabner. He evidently went by "Jody" and the correct spelling on the last name I believe is Daoud. He would have been from Miami Beach.

Does this person from about '65 ring a bell to you?

[lilabner]

He was a good friend of my boss, Bobby Rautbord. I don't remember much about him. Brownie may.

[GENE LANHAM]

He was a good friend of my boss, Bobby Rautbord. I don't remember much about him. Brownie may.

Jody Daoud was always around Bobby and Patty in the late 60's early 70's ---was also a good friend of Doc's----

[Greg G]

Is Doc Magoon still with us?

[lilabner]

Gene,

From now on I will say check with Gene or Brownie, since you are the senior man..and know more about Outboard racing also..
Wasn't Jody in the Jewelry business?

[GENE LANHAM]

Is Doc Magoon still with us?


Last time I checked---:)


http://i60.tinypic.com/119ro7o.jpg

[Greg G]

Great photo ........... the two of you need to stop having so much fun! Maybe Doc will have some info on Jody Daoud from back in the day.

[GENE LANHAM]

I continue to poke around on the topic of Bob Cox and the "Marina Seven" 19' race boat..........


His name was Bob Cox. Bob and his Marina General Manager, Ed Joyce raced in a number of Offshore races. In 1965 alone, they entered and won........

The St. Petersburg 50 Mile Ocean Race
The Pelican Harbour 100 mile Gulf Stream Regatta
The Orange Bowl Regatta
The Sam Griffith Memorial
.

Greg G---it is snowing so hard today I can't leave the house ---so I have been doing a lot of 'research'

I didn't realise that the GCM was also called The Sam Griffith Memorial?

I will do more research in the results of the 1965 GCM---

http://i61.tinypic.com/1649ax.jpg

[Greg G]

Excellent! Now it was well before my time but I always thought that the "Sam Griffith Memorial" represented a (6) offshore race series where points were awarded. I probably screwed that up though in my research.

[Greg G]

Well that racer Jody Daoud from Miami has proven to be a tough guy to get information on!

[GENE LANHAM]

Well that racer Jody Daoud from Miami has proven to be a tough guy to get information on!

Good Morning, Greg G!!

Still trying to run down Jody---but I did come up with results of the 1965 GCM (Sam Griffith Memorial?)? --and no mention of Mr. Coxe or Mr. Joyce---

http://i64.tinypic.com/33ugaph.jpg

[Greg G]

Good Morning, Greg G!!

Still trying to run down Jody---but I did come up with results of the 1965 GCM (Sam Griffith Memorial?)? --and no mention of Mr. Coxe or Mr. Joyce

Well, while looking for Jody (still have not found him) I uncovered another race boat photo of Bob Cox and Ed Joyce.

This time they're running there Formula 233 in the April, 1964 "Nassau Round New Providence Race". Nice clear photo too.

Bob must have been a dealer for Formula before he took on Donzi as the first dealer in Florida in late 1964.

[[email protected]]

I just joined Scream and Fly after googling my father's name, Howard Weiler.

[[email protected]]

Howard's son is Michael. Howard is my father.

[Greg G]

Welcome! I bet you have some great stories

[[email protected]]

I do know some of the stories but I was so young. My sister has a huge album of photos. I have a lot of his trophies. I also have an old box that he built to house his maps. It has a glass top and he could wind the map up or down to see his route during a race.

[GENE LANHAM]

I just joined Scream and Fly after googling my father's name, Howard Weiler.


There are a few of us left that knew and raced with Howard-----:smiletest::)

http://i66.tinypic.com/2zqy546.jpg

[Bob V]

I know that there has to be a story behind running one of each of the Big 3 outboards ???

[[email protected]]

So you raced with my father? Which race?

[Greg G]

There are a few of us left that knew and raced with Howard


I know that there has to be a story behind running one of each of the Big 3 outboards ???

Now I was not even born yet but THAT photo has to be one of the all time classic race boat pictures. Great shot, thanks for sharing Mr. Lanham. Didn't Howard and Bob Cox run a 20 footer from Miami to NYC?

[GENE LANHAM]

So you raced with my father? Which race?

There were so many races---this is one that we both remember---

http://i64.tinypic.com/zwkpd0.jpg

[GENE LANHAM]

I know that there has to be a story behind running one of each of the Big 3 outboards ???

http://i67.tinypic.com/t9k65k.jpg

Hey Bob--You remember the 60's and 70's---There was a lot of 'switching' going on. I remember Howard usually ran OMC's--but he did show up with Black Motors--

For the Bahamas 500 he ran this boat--I don't know how he put this deal together--wouldn't you like to see the 'memo billing'? He actually finished the 500 with all motors still running---

There was a cigarette commercial back then: 'I'd rather fight than switch'

http://i66.tinypic.com/34nmcsl.jpg

[Bob V]

Hi Gene...Thanks for your info. If you had told me that someone had done that, I would have a hard time digesting it. But... seeing is believing. I was thinking that perhaps he was looking for more sponsorship than any of the Big 3 were willing to give and came up with this idea to put them all in their place. I know back then the Big 3 had super egos and to put all three together on one transom had to raise some hairs...:eek:

[GENE LANHAM]

Now I was not even born yet but THAT photo has to be one of the all time classic race boat pictures. Great shot, thanks for sharing Mr. Lanham. Didn't Howard and Bob Cox run a 20 footer from Miami to NYC?

You are thinking of Brook and Ronnie Russell in the V-16 Alim??

Here is part of the CREW at Bob Hewes---

http://i68.tinypic.com/124y35x.jpg

[lilabner]

Gene,
What boat was he running?
Howard was a fun guy to be around. Always had a smile. I met him when I was about 15 at Dade Marine in South Miami.

[moparbarn]

You are thinking of Brook and Ronnie Russell in the V-16 Alim??

Here is part of the CREW at Bob Hewes---

http://i68.tinypic.com/124y35x.jpg
I used to have a lot of fun playing "race boat driver" as a kid in that boat. Unfortunately only when it was on the trailer in their back yard three doors down from my house.

[GENE LANHAM]

Gene,
What boat was he running?
Howard was a fun guy to be around. Always had a smile. I met him when I was about 15 at Dade Marine in South Miami.

Butch--in the Roaring 100 he was driving a Desilva with a pair of Super BP's. Howard was at Galveston 69 with this same boat--and a guy named Marvis Carmichael---(there's that name again)

[lilabner]

Butch--in the Roaring 100 he was driving a Desilva with a pair of Super BP's. Howard was at Galveston 69 with this same boat--and a guy named Marvis Carmichael---(there's that name again)

Marvis is listed as Bobby Erra's co-driver in the Mandela in the 250, which he wasn't, I was. I don't see Howard listed at all anywhere..
But I'm sure you are correct. What a hair-raising event that was. Crashed Merten right in front of us in the twin engine race, and flipped five boats in the 250 in ten minutes, and killed a driver, with no medical response team left. I watched them trying to do CPR on him on a picnic table and tossing him into someone's van to try to save him. All this while putting on my Gentex and Helmet for my stint. And we were 3rd overall at the time. Poorly run and dangerous event, especially if you got hurt.
I never even knew Marvis, did you?

[Bob V]

Marvis is listed as Bobby Erra's co-driver in the Mandela in the 250, which he wasn't, I was. I don't see Howard listed at all anywhere..
But I'm sure you are correct. What a hair-raising event that was. Crashed Merten right in front of us in the twin engine race, and flipped five boats in the 250 in ten minutes, and killed a driver, with no medical response team left. I watched them trying to do CPR on him on a picnic table and tossing him into someone's van to try to save him. All this while putting on my Gentex and Helmet for my stint. And we were 3rd overall at the time. Poorly run and dangerous event, especially if you got hurt.
I never even knew Marvis, did you?

For those of us that cannot read the fine print...:eek:

365689

365690

[GENE LANHAM]

Marvis is listed as Bobby Erra's co-driver in the Mandela in the 250, which he wasn't, I was. I don't see Howard listed at all anywhere..

I never even knew Marvis, did you?

No, I didn't----wouldn't you think we would remember some one that won so many races?? Kinda like Cox and Joyce??


The St. Petersburg 50 Mile Ocean Race
The Pelican Harbour 100 mile Gulf Stream Regatta
The Orange Bowl Regatta
The Sam Griffith Memorial


The 'So Big' is the boat Howard ran in the Roaring 100---and I vaguely remember him being in Galveston--only been 48 years:nonod:

http://i67.tinypic.com/ne9jlh.jpg

[Mark75H]

Gotta admit, those 19 inch DeSilvas were some wicked boats ;)

[GENE LANHAM]

Gotta admit, those 19 inch DeSilvas were some wicked boats ;)

:iagree:

[Bob V]

No, I didn't----wouldn't you think we would remember some one that won so many races?? Kinda like Cox and Joyce??


The St. Petersburg 50 Mile Ocean Race
The Pelican Harbour 100 mile Gulf Stream Regatta
The Orange Bowl Regatta
The Sam Griffith Memorial


The 'So Big' is the boat Howard ran in the Roaring 100---and I vaguely remember him being in Galveston--only been 48 years:nonod:

http://i67.tinypic.com/ne9jlh.jpg

I have been waiting for someone with more knowledge than me to question the 140 BP's mentioned above. However, that has not happened. Now I am wondering if there really was a 140 BP? I remember the 125 and 135 BP's, but I have never heard of or seen a 140 BP...until now...:confused:

[Mark75H]

I have been waiting for someone with more knowledge than me to question the 140 BP's mentioned above. However, that has not happened. Now I am wondering if there really was a 140 BP? I remember the 125 and 135 BP's, but I have never heard of or seen a 140 BP...until now...:confused:

Merc said the 1250 Super BP was 140 hp without stacks. Its referring to hp, not model number.

[Bob V]

Merc said the 1250 Super BP was 140 hp without stacks. Its referring to hp, not model number.

OK...that makes more sense....Thanks...:thumbsup:

[FUJIMO]

Give 'ol Marvis a call. He's alive and well, living in League City, Texas.

[[email protected]]

Do any of you with photos and stories of the racing days with my father Howard live in Florida?

[[email protected]]

Where does everyone live that raced with Howard Weiler or has photos of those races. Wondering if there could be a gathering of everyone to share stories. I would love to have copies of photos. Please let me know. Thanks

[lilabner]

Hi Bugzie,
I met your Dad around 1957 working at Dade Marine with Bob Waldo. I worked there after school and my paper route. He was really friendly and always remembered me. I started racing in 58 and would see him at a lot of races, we always had something to say to each other. I was racing Mercury equipment and he was usually running the oppositions brands. I don't have any pictures of him, don't even have many of our crew. Too busy racing and fixing. My wife was working at Balasky Animal Hospital and she told me his daughter was a customer and they lived in SW Ranches. I asked her to get me the number so I could call him, but I waited a little too long. He passed away before I could call. We live in Cooper City, and have for 30 years. Sorry to have missed getting back in touch with him.
Butch Stokes

[FUJIMO]

http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/g/wfYAAOSwdGFYqAmU/s-l225.jpg...Howard on the left, Jack Braz to the right, circa '61...

[FUJIMO]

1964 http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/g/4MIAAOSwx6pYoBp5/s-l225.jpg

[FUJIMO]

http://i61.tinypic.com/11rvivp.jpg

[FUJIMO]

http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/g/MY4AAOSw32lYnXtO/s-l225.jpg...Howard & Ed Joyce setting New York Speed/Time record...

[FUJIMO]

Sports Illustrated article...http://vault-cdn.si.com/SI_ISSUE_IMAGES/Sports%20Illustrated/1965/04/19650419/Sports_Illustrated_43199_19650419-036-250.jpg

[FUJIMO]

1965 Argentina advertisement...http://i.ebayimg.com/23/!CDKE+qg!mk~$(KGrHqMOKi0E0n2hln(iBNNliHjZ5!~~_35.JPG?set_id=880000500F

[FUJIMO]

Title of Sports Illustrated article...http://vault-cdn.si.com/SI_ISSUE_IMAGES/Sports%20Illustrated/1965/04/19650419/Sports_Illustrated_43199_19650419-034-250.jpg

[Mark75H]

Charlie claims this was his intended use of the X-115's

[[email protected]]

Wow. I still go to Balasky Animal Hospital. I live in SW Ranches. Please contact me on my email. [email protected]. Would love to talk to you

[[email protected]]

Fujimo. How do you have all those photos? Do you live in Florida? Will you please contact me at my email? [email protected]. Thank you for sharing!!!!

[Greg G]

FUJIMO is the man when it comes to pics for sure

[Greg G]

Supersize those articles so we can read them :)

[Greg G]

Jody Daoud was always around Bobby and Patty in the late 60's early 70's ---was also a good friend of Doc's


Gene, From now on I will say check with Gene or Brownie, since you are the senior man..and know more about Outboard racing also..Wasn't Jody in the Jewelry business?

Uncovered this info about Jody. Looks like he raced a 16.

[Greg G]

Marvis is listed as Bobby Erra's co-driver in the Mandela in the 250, which he wasn't, I was. I never even knew Marvis, did you?


No, I didn't----wouldn't you think we would remember some one that won so many races?? Kinda like Cox and Joyce??


The St. Petersburg 50 Mile Ocean Race
The Pelican Harbour 100 mile Gulf Stream Regatta
The Orange Bowl Regatta
The Sam Griffith Memorial



Give 'ol Marvis a call. He's alive and well, living in League City, Texas.

And Marvis evidently raced an 18 with twin outboards ..................does anyone have his contact info by chance?

[Greg G]

And full circle to the Donzi 19' "Marina Seven" outboard raced by Bob Cox and Ed Joyce of Lauderdale Marina in both 1964 and 1965. This boat looks to have had twin 75hp Johnsons.

[Bob V]

I had to enlarge this one to see the race results. Living in Clearwater, I always waited for the Fun 'n Sun Regatta. It was the main attraction to Clearwater's Fun 'n Sun Week. I think 1972 was the last year that it ran.

389401

[Greg G]

I had to enlarge this one to see the race results. Living in Clearwater, I always waited for the Fun 'n Sun Regatta. It was the main attraction to Clearwater's Fun 'n Sun Week. I think 1972 was the last year that it ran.

Thanks for the much clearer view. That clipping refers to the March 23, 1969 race. What seems a bit odd is that 'ol Marvis ran a Donzi Classic 18 footer. Not just that, but with twins to boot. Wonder of there is any other info on that boat? He must have converted it over.