1974 - Mercury 1150 - RPM drop @ WOT

[Big_Totoro]

Hello!

I'm new to boating, and have bought my very first boat. It's a 1971 Sidewinder. It's powered by a 1974 Mercury 1150.

Engine starts fine, even when cold. From just in gear (barely moving) I can punch to WOT (instant throttle response) and the engine goes up to 5000 rpm. It's all I can do to hold on sometimes. Get up onto plane easy and very quick.

Once I'm just up onto plane the RPMs drop to 3600 rpm. I on;y stay up at 5000 rpm for a second or 3 maybe. I'm running a 17 pitch prop. I've had someone prime the fuel bulb while at WOT and there is no change (good or bad).

It almost seems like it's flooding itself? I ease off the throttle all the way back down to barely moving, but then quickly goto WOT again and it then will bog and slowly climb onto plane and up to a max of 3600 rpm.

I'd appreciate any help. I don't know alot about boats or engines, but I'm not afraid to get in and start pulling things apart if I have too.

thanks!

[Mark75H]

How old are the fuel pumps? Does the primer bulb stay hard?

[Big_Totoro]

How old are the fuel pumps? Does the primer bulb stay hard?


Bulb stays hard. Fuel pump I have no idea. This was the reason I had someone pump the bulb while I was @ WOT. It didn't make any difference.

[bearclaw]

What I want to see are pics... for nostalgia's sake. What a cool find! As to your problem: I've seen them act like that when they're pulling old crap up again the intake in the gas tank.
With the age, that would make me wonder about that... Best to figure it out before you go much farther - it could be leaning out, and those motors really don't like that.

[Big_Totoro]

What I want to see are pics... for nostalgia's sake. What a cool find! As to your problem: I've seen them act like that when they're pulling old crap up again the intake in the gas tank.
With the age, that would make me wonder about that... Best to figure it out before you go much farther - it could be leaning out, and those motors really don't like that.

I'll try and get some pictures soon ;)

I don't think it's the fuel tank becuase I'm using a brand new fuel tank. There has been no difference switching between the old red tank and the brand new one. Both tanks have the vents open and there isn't any vacuum in the tanks from not getting enough venting.

[Robby321]

OK, just a thought here as had a similar problem my (new then) 74 XS1500. In think 1978, it started and went WOT like the beast it was, but would drop R's down a grand or so fast. Back to idle, nail it and here we go again. I simple could not figure the prob. Called my Merc guru and he said he got a service bulletin to remove the 3 small filters in the gas lines where they went into the carbs. I can't remember just where the were put but pull a line off at a carb and see if theres any tiny screen in there. If ya find one, out and take the other 2 out too. My middle carb had a gunked up filter. Took them out and "back to the beast" again. Don't hurt to look. If that aint it, rebuild the fuel pumps. And make sure the diaphragms you replace are the SAME, as variations. Good luck!

[Robby321]

OK, a little more. Like I said as I don't remember, but these screens were small and end the gas line. As in the diagram, I don't "think" it was #14 filter, but check them anyway to make sure clean. Also what I said about the pump diaphragms. Hope this helps.
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[Robby321]

What I want to see are pics... for nostalgia's sake. What a cool find! As to your problem: I've seen them act like that when they're pulling old crap up again the intake in the gas tank.
With the age, that would make me wonder about that... Best to figure it out before you go much farther - it could be leaning out, and those motors really don't like that.

Yep as agree as its a fuel, NOT "flooding" but LEAN OUT issue. Easy to check any way, just yank a few plugs. Black carboned up is rich, lean will show clean plugs. And on the old Mercs" SURE DO NOT LIKE leaned out, as I did TWICE a "hole in one", #3 both times running to high advance, but that was running (best gas) at damn near 26 degrees, normal 23 Then. BUT! The gas now has "went south" and my Merc Guru here the famous "Dr Frankenmerc", will NOT let any stack he rebuilds out the door unless at now 21 degrees. And run premium gas, 40-1 oil. And thinking even if ya got the carbs with the #14 screens in there? I'd still yank'em and toss a filter inline instead (nothing special, simple automotive plastic see through filter, less than $5) Got one in bought my outboards, after the primer bulb, before motor and ZERO problem.

And DAMN RIGHT "we need pix!" Love the old "sidewinders", and of course .."Merc Stacks!"

[Robby321]

Gonna add a bit more about old Merc gas hose (Motor wise), and age. I'll get to it later as in the shop now, pix house puter. You also could have a deteriorated rubber inner on one or all. I'll post more on this later. Don't worry, we can figure out "the beast". Just don't rush into anything without asking here first. Wish the best!

[Dave Strong]

Robby you talking #14 in the diagram? For the filters.

Dave

[Robby321]

Robby you talking #14 in the diagram? For the filters.

Dave

Yes, but the ones I pulled were out the fuel lines IN there, do NOT think that, as the XS probably had diff carbs. Thats the only pic I have. Wish I could remember more but 4 decades ago. But STILL worth checking IF the OP has same type carbs. And STILL would pull them anyway, and run a inline filter instead. My Merc is covered up so I could take a look, but to DAMN HOT OUT! More about this later...

[Dave Strong]

That diag you showed had those goofy hoses that were crimped to the fittings, the hoses likes to come apart on the inside. Think I know the filters your talking about, tapered screens that are like fuel line Id.?

Dave

[Big_Totoro]

Thanks for all the knowledge guys!

I'm going to try and take a good look at the things you mentioned this weekend. I'll take some photos too.

The 70's Era boats and engines bring back my childhood memories! Lots of good times out on the water with my gramps!

[Dave Strong]

Funny worked on a couple L-6's today, one got a stator the other older one got the rain forest cleaned out of the cap. 2 happy customers. ;):D

Dave :)

[Robby321]

That diag you showed had those goofy hoses that were crimped to the fittings, the hoses likes to come apart on the inside. Think I know the filters your talking about, tapered screens that are like fuel line Id.?

Dave Yes SIR! TAPERED INLINE! But managed to do a do a oil change the van, but ITS ONE HOT DAY an d back the house now. Hey OP poster! Take the wrap off, and take a pic the carbs, and look for any markings on the carbs. That will tell us more. Should be a (think) a WK # Let me find sometime...

[powerabout]

there can also be a filter in behind the fitting that screws into the carb

[Robby321]

Couple links from "fiberglassics"..(join up there and post Merc Forum..wizards there! on stacks)

http://www.fiberglassics.com/glassic-forums/home/mercury-outpost/1500-carbs#113373

http://www.fiberglassics.com/glassic-forums/home/mercury-outpost/1967-mercury-950-ss-fuel-hoses

[Robby321]

there can also be a filter in behind the fitting that screws into the carb

Thats the one I was talking about!

[Dave Strong]

Cooking here today, felt like i was in a time warp working on old Tower of Powers. lol ;):D

Dave :cheers:

[Big_Totoro]

So here are a few pictures of the engine. I pulled all 6 plugs to check them out. They all looked almost exactly the same. Dark brown and oily. No water or moisture.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jvgZNpXPIFml0V2uHKhcpzt5eTkHkk9lsU9llODE4po=w602-h1069-nohttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9xTAf6AWJ8xYTcOFCgA6-FPKBsTZfSG6b673DlNSuGE=w602-h1069-nohttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/17nJx56560EqBs82BK5ccJdTYpQkYaULxACuaERGBKk=w602-h1069-nohttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2fiRh2mP1UNMyzm0rLJNwDJiZLuqpKNK4PZeitPPA7M=w602-h1069-no





The only Number I could see on the top of the carbs.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fDOrvmPev7P4pPqMczZu_ugZIIjnXGO03joTXmPXZNU=w1901-h1069-no





The Left Plug is "dirtier" and plugs from position 1-4 look like this. The Plug on the Right is alot cleaner, but still brown. Plugs from position 5-6 look like this.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Gq0rTY4ytI0AtZk5tvr4ozmwLSBIRcgYQQfe0lRi4Wo=w602-h1069-nohttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/y5NYnEyltPCVRME_Ulz3Xa4fZp_gXAxbhYJwkRvE8m4=w602-h1069-no




Engine Serial Number?
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9Dc-FkMRa64oGG4RI5DlPNbYolqFWm1M8zrHy3hQWTo=w1901-h1069-no

[Big_Totoro]

I hope those pictures help a bit. I'm still confused as to were all these little filters are hiding. hahah :D

[powerabout]

those little filters are hiding behind the elbows in the float chamber top housings

[cyhuff]

"Got one in bought my outboards, after the primer bulb, before motor and ZERO problem"

Don't mean to hi-jack, but, Robby, I've read on here that the filter should go AFTER the fuel pump. Is this correct, or does it really not matter?

Thanks,

Trace

[Robby321]

"Got one in bought my outboards, after the primer bulb, before motor and ZERO problem"

Don't mean to hi-jack, but, Robby, I've read on here that the filter should go AFTER the fuel pump. Is this correct, or does it really not matter? Thanks, Trace

OK, on that? Myth. Think any older I/O., mechanical fuel pump. Canister filters from tank b4 pump. Small gas motors? Gravity fed have no prop flowing fuel with no pump. ANYWHERE in line is fine! Solves the problem as any carbed motor with a say like older cars, inline at the carb filters, well now you don't have to worry that getting clogged. And heard some think a simple plastic see thru (I got a 3 inch plastic for cars in the dogs boat, and no prob), as IT WILL NOT FILTER OUT THE OIL A 2 stroke. Simple test. Fill up a filter and see just how fast the gas runs through. Not a prob.

[Robby321]

OK, back to subject. On the pic the carb, hmmm. Its a side bowl, back drag carb, but has a different "elbow" into the bowl than the one with the filter that I showed in the carb diagram. I looked my Seloc manual, and it (yours) shows in one pic, but the diagram shows what I posted? Got me stumped here. But you could try to pull the 2 screws holding it to the float bowl, and take a peak in there. Plus it looks like your hoses are "band" clipped..(I hate those things, PITA to get off with out a dremal cutter). You could take one hose off and take look inner for deterioration , and going back on decent wire ties will work and helps to have a Zip tie tighten/cutter. Thats a start anyway. I really doubt its a electrical issue, but I would rule anything out just yet. But not knowing the history the motor, I would maybe think ya just might have to do it right, and a lot of work, but take your time, do it right. Yank the carbs, rebuild all, new hoses and rebuild the fuel pumps. But lets not get ahead here. Try the little stuff first. And yep, getting at the carbs is a bitch! I'll go look my Merc today, but let me find some pics the motor build. You can see the carbs on mine.
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In this pic, you can see the middle carb with the tall "filter cup", over the float bowl..

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[Dave Strong]

I just cut those banded POS hoses and pull the fittings out and replace them with good brass weatherhead fittings. Yoy can cut the bands with a dremel wheel as Robby said. Most customers would rather buy $15.00 worth of new fittings vs pay me $110.00/hr to make the old ones work.
I know the filters Robby is talking about but can't find a pic. Will look somemore when the long weekend company leaves. :D;)

Dave:cheers:

[Robby321]

I just cut those banded POS hoses and pull the fittings out and replace them with good brass weatherhead fittings. Yoy can cut the bands with a dremel wheel as Robby said. Most customers would rather buy $15.00 worth of new fittings vs pay me $110.00/hr to make the old ones work.
I know the filters Robby is talking about but can't find a pic. Will look somemore when the long weekend company leaves. :D;)

Dave:cheers:


Yep, let it sit here W/E as dead anyway net, plus Seafair here all day coverage Kiro 7 here
and besides the Angels, UL Hydro's, F1 boats, DAMN SURE don't want to miss the new event this year..(give me a break!)..Paddle board racing? Also caught this morning Lucas dragboats, Wheatland. Eddy K out the "hot seat now" in "Problem Child", but a crew chief now. Pilot (forgot) "Plant" Platt? Came in second final. And just beat the storm hitting that rolled in FAST! (I'll get to the screens in a bit here), but a Dis cap story before I forget. Second year the Flatty build me, parked over winter on grass rainy season, well covered (maybe to well down from the sky, but moisture up?).
Spring go to fire it up, and fired fine, but soon starts back firing, mixing cyl's? So I pull the Dissy cap and SOB! Had a shot glass and 1/2 water in it? HA!. Damn Merc stacks, ya gotta love'em! I'm about ready to go out front now and uncover it.(it needs wet anyway soon), fire on muffs, and I'll take some pix my carb set up. OK, screens now.

Yep, as they were in the hose going into the carb fit, about 1/4 inch, 3/4 long? Damn, I walk into another room and get the "here afters"..(like what the hell I come in here after?) But still in my brain what they looked like stuck. More later here, as going fire the "beast"

[Robby321]

OK, some pix my beast. Even sitting a couple months with a 12:30 volt batt fired right up! Use the "dogs boat in the slip most summer (in salt), and Flatty goes out August when afternoon tides right, (big swings) the usable launch dock. I refuse to leave it out there in salt water, so go for a blast and back the trailer. Lot of time, bucks, blood, beers, sweat and building it bare hull Flat, and crank up Merc. Damn toys!

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[Dave Strong]

OK, some pix my beast. Even sitting a couple months with a 12:30 volt batt fired right up! Use the "dogs boat in the slip most summer (in salt), and Flatty goes out August when afternoon tides right, (big swings) the usable launch dock. I refuse to leave it out there in salt water, so go for a blast and back the trailer. Lot of time, bucks, blood, beers, sweat and building it bare hull Flat, and crank up Merc. Damn toys!

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Them carbs are different, one screw for the inlet, other ones have 2.

Dave

[Robby321]

Them carbs are different, one screw for the inlet, other ones have 2.

Dave

Heres the build sheet from the Doc here. who did the work. As love XS warps decals, thats what the wrap. Its a solid "Frankenmerc"' This from the Doc, as I I rigged the boat, while he did the motor.............

The powerhead I am building for you was originally a '72 1150.

The '72 1150 is a choked down 1350 with a few flow restrictions to give the lower HP rating so Merc wouldn't have to come up with a different powerhead to fill that HP range for the consumer market.

Initially this 1150 needed a rebuild because the inner water jacket had cracked and let water into #3 which was trying to die when I rescued the beast. It still had 95 psi on #3, but the rings had started to seize and consequently had scored the bore.
I had #3 bored .015 and installed a new piston there.

I had all holes pro-honed while I was at it and mic'd for roundness, etc to insure the beast was still within factory tolerences.

The block surfaces were machined too to insure everything was flat in the water jacket areas for a correct sealing.

All other pistons were carefully inspected, mic'd, & cleaned. I replaced one standard size piston too, but (4) of the (6) original pistons went back into their original holes.

Everybody got brand new rings & needle bearings.

The crankshaft got new main bearings.

The end caps got new seals & so did the crankcase.

I installed 1500 reed blocks and reeds, which meausre out the same as the original 1350 reeds.

I am installing '72 1400 carburetors - which are virtually identical to the original 1350 carbs & I am installing the original .0785main jets required for the 1350 at sea level.

The exhaust tuner plate and inner water jacket are both NOS 1350 parts that I had machined to insure they too are flat so they will seal correctly.

These modifications: Main jets, reed blocks, tuner & inner wj complete the conversion of the 1150 to a true 1350.

The only difference between the 1350 and the 1400 blocks is the 1350 had an oval tuner to the mid-section and the 1400 had the dual square port tuner to the mid-section. And,...The inner wj & tuner plate configuration changed barely.

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[Big_Totoro]

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Is this a picture of one of your fuel pumps? If so, it's very different from mine. I only have a single pump and it's not the same at all. Also looks like a have a cracked fuel line going from the pump to the top carb.

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[Dave Strong]

Is this a picture of one of your fuel pumps? If so, it's very different from mine. I only have a single pump and it's not the same at all. Also looks like a have a cracked fuel line going from the pump to the top carb.

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Typical pump with the cleanable filter, WTF is Norris he knows all about this stuff.

Dave

[powerabout]

Does the 135 have the porting like a 1500?

[powerabout]

With single pump we used to replace diaphram once a year

[Robby321]

Is this a picture of one of your fuel pumps? If so, it's very different from mine. I only have a single pump and it's not the same at all. Also looks like a have a cracked fuel line going from the pump to the top carb.

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Thats not mine, as different than what I posted of mine. It that yours? Losing me here.

[Robby321]

Does the 135 have the porting like a 1500?

I don't know, have to ask my Merc guru...

[Big_Totoro]

Thats not mine, as different than what I posted of mine. It that yours? Losing me here.

Hey

Yes that is my fuel pump. When I quoted your original post it didn't put your picture in my reply.

I posted the different fuel pump as it is mine and also pointed out it looks like I have a cracked fuel line as well.

I think I should replace the fuel lines to all the carbs but I'm guessing I'll have to remove them all to do that.

If I have to remove them then I should probably just rebuild them.

I guess my next question is where and what kits do I get for my carbs and my fuel pump.

[Robby321]

Hey

Yes that is my fuel pump. When I quoted your original post it didn't put your picture in my reply.

I posted the different fuel pump as it is mine and also pointed out it looks like I have a cracked fuel line as well.

I think I should replace the fuel lines to all the carbs but I'm guessing I'll have to remove them all to do that.

If I have to remove them then I should probably just rebuild them.

I guess my next question is where and what kits do I get for my carbs and my fuel pump.
First I can't help just what ya need as you need to see what carbs you have. On the pump, maybe others can help. I can tell ya where to get parts easy though. More on this during the week...(W/E's are kinda dead here)..

[Robby321]

Actually carbs (mabe) should have WMK (or similar) stamped on them, and maybe a followed by a 1/2/3 as top to bottom. If you don't want to go through the hassle a rebuild, my Merc Guru has boxes carbs IL6. But won't be free of course. (Trade in yours to him for rebuild possible too. I'd have to contact him.). Again, parts not a problem. And the procedure for yanking them is in my link to Fiberglassis post.........

[Big_Totoro]

Actually carbs (mabe) should have WMK (or similar) stamped on them, and maybe a followed by a 1/2/3 as top to bottom. If you don't want to go through the hassle a rebuild, my Merc Guru has boxes carbs IL6. But won't be free of course. (Trade in yours to him for rebuild possible too. I'd have to contact him.). Again, parts not a problem. And the procedure for yanking them is in my link to Fiberglassis post.........

The only number I could find was in the photo of the top of the float bowl cover. 1395-5260

[Robby321]

The only number I could find was in the photo of the top of the float bowl cover. 1395-5260

Gotta yank,em to see Should be there esomewhere..

[WillDiver]

Im the OP of that Fiberglassics post. I just finished mine. There is a WMK-XX-2 on the front face of the bowl. for a 1500, its WMK-22-1. The last number is for top, middle, bottom. The hose from the pump (I have the same one, and there is a screen in there!) is 1/4" ID. Yank off the fromt support (label the wires before removing them, and disconnect the battery) and the top. Pull the starter motor (its only 4 bolts, really easy) and you can pull off all 4 bowl caps. at this point, you can check the floats (new ones are only about $8 each) and the needle valve. If the needle seat has rubber, its an old design, and will bind on you. At this point, honestly, yank the carbs (you'll need a long socket extention and a universal to reach the bottom one) and there are only 3 things to remove. Idle jet, Main jet cover, and main jet. I spent one day doing the whole job, and cleaning everything (clean machine is a happy machine). Im really happy with the result.
Personally, I ordered the parts from iBoats. they will be Sierra, but they work fine. double check the fuel pump though, cause their reference sent me the triangle shaped unit.

Will

[Robby321]

Im the OP of that Fiberglassics post. I just finished mine. There is a WMK-XX-2 on the front face of the bowl. for a 1500, its WMK-22-1. The last number is for top, middle, bottom. The hose from the pump (I have the same one, and there is a screen in there!) is 1/4" ID. Yank off the fromt support (label the wires before removing them, and disconnect the battery) and the top. Pull the starter motor (its only 4 bolts, really easy) and you can pull off all 4 bowl caps. at this point, you can check the floats (new ones are only about $8 each) and the needle valve. If the needle seat has rubber, its an old design, and will bind on you. At this point, honestly, yank the carbs (you'll need a long socket extention and a universal to reach the bottom one) and there are only 3 things to remove. Idle jet, Main jet cover, and main jet. I spent one day doing the whole job, and cleaning everything (clean machine is a happy machine). Im really happy with the result.
Personally, I ordered the parts from iBoats. they will be Sierra, but they work fine. double check the fuel pump though, cause their reference sent me the triangle shaped unit.

Will
Thanks the reply Will, as I sent him a PM to hook up the Wizards FG! As many "old IL6" wizzes there, Doc, Ed, as the rest! Great info there, and we simple "gotta help him out", (plus ya know damn well IL6 and old Sidewinders RULE!) Plus curious where ya at SoCal? LOTS relatives/family all over So/Nor Cal! And I copy your reply here and "put it in the IL6 folder. Thanks for trying to help someone out, as thats "whats its all about anyway, life!"
Robby! Be well, and again thanks from me!

[Dave Strong]

Thanks the reply Will, as I sent him a PM to hook up the Wizards FG! As many "old IL6" wizzes there, Doc, Ed, as the rest! Great info there, and we simple "gotta help him out", (plus ya know damn well IL6 and old Sidewinders RULE!) Plus curious where ya at SoCal? LOTS relatives/family all over So/Nor Cal! And I copy your reply here and "but it in the IL6 folder. Thanks for trying to help someone out, as thats "whats its all about anyway, life!"
Robby! Be well, and again thanks from me!

Knew that damb screen was somewhere hidden good info, the old guy is on a cross Canada cruise so couldn't ask him. He would have had the answer. :D:rolleyes:

Dave :cheers:
PS if it was me I would do the carbs, fuel pump and hoses. Then you know thats all good, use stabilizer and never worry again. ;)

[WillDiver]

I replaced the fuel hoses from the main tanks to the motor weeks ago. (only had the boat since March) Did the impeller right off the bat. as it wasnt running at peak, and I had a good spark, that meant carbs. I looked at everything I could find on the net, and when stuck, asked for help. When someone has an issue I've had and fixed, I'll chime in. Now all I need to do is a link n sync. But that can hold off for a little bit. I grew up with a TOP, and I still love the look and sound of the inline 6. Nothing like it. Now if only parts were easier to come across

Will

[WillDiver]

Robby, I'm in LA. Valencia area more precisely. I boat at Pyramid and Buena Vista, mostly. Hit me up if you're coming through and we'll get the ski out.

Will

[Big_Totoro]

Thanks for all the help guys!

I took the boat out again today and the issue us getting worse and worse.

I'm convinced it's not getting enough fuel now. I want to take the carbs out but that means no boating while I try and source parts :(

[WillDiver]

A really good place to start for parts is Joe @ http://www.fergusonpoolemarine.com . He is really good with these motors, and is really on the ball for parts. I've heard nothing but good about his service.

Will

[powerabout]

assuming you have the correct carbs on a black painted block....
have you taken the float chamber tops off and removed the fittings to check for the small filters?

[Big_Totoro]

assuming you have the correct carbs on a black painted block....
have you taken the float chamber tops off and removed the fittings to check for the small filters?


No not yet. I assumed that to do that I would have to remove the carbs.

[powerabout]

No not yet. I assumed that to do that I would have to remove the carbs.
no deep 1/4 drive socket, take all 3 off together and check the float levels at the same time

[Big_Totoro]

no deep 1/4 drive socket, take all 3 off together and check the float levels at the same time

There isn't a gasket on the top float bowl is there?

[Robby321]

There isn't a gasket on the top float bowl is there?

Has to be, or a O Ring. But I'm still stumped just what carb type you have with a different inlet setup to to float that I'm familiar with. Pic yours top, mine next. Still best bet is slow down, forget about boating a bit, yank the carbs. Pix, diagrams, label wires, take your time, and when off and ya know what to order then worry where to get parts, as they ARE available.

Remember the old saying "Always enough time to do it twice, but never enough time to do it right the first time"

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[Robby321]

Robby, I'm in LA. Valencia area more precisely. I boat at Pyramid and Buena Vista, mostly. Hit me up if you're coming through and we'll get the ski out.

Will

Yep! No plans to head down there, but one never knows! And NOW this from FG makes sense as now I no what ya meant! Kinds silly but there is a problem zebra mussels or what ever.

"I have the front support unbolted, but didnt remove the wires yet. I have to bolt back up so that I can get an inspection done (they make sure there is not one single drop of water anywhere in the boat- even the motor). Then it's back to the tear down."

[Dave Strong]

Think those carbs are KD series, the ones in the bottom pic areWMK series. Should be stamped somewhere.

Dave

[WillDiver]

My carb top looks the same as the one pictured by Big. Mine is a WMK-22. Robby, you have the triangle shaped fuel pump, on the side of the block? I have the same pump as BIG. Its a rectangle and while attached to the motor, its a separate unit. The filter screen on mine is quite sizable, and in the pump inlet. No filter in the carb, hence a little different look. I'll take a picture or 2 when I get home.
Big- Yes, there is a gasket between the bowl and cap, and it may very well get torn/destroyed by opening. I gotta get back to work, but I'll post up a like to order the sierra kit in a bit.

Will

[Robby321]

Think those carbs are KD series, the ones in the bottom pic areWMK series. Should be stamped somewhere.

Dave

OK, thanks Dave the chime in. And I have WMK carbs, but still curious on KD carbs. I'll ring Norris's bell a pm, and have him chime in here.

[WillDiver]

The Sierra rebuild kit for a KD-6 carb is 18-7013. For a WMK carb, its 18-7021. Both are listed as possible on a 74 1150. The square fuel pump is # 18-7817, and the floats are 18-7208.
I sourced the tems from iBoats, but there are many retailers that can get them, including your local Merc dealer.

Will

[powerabout]

I have not seen those old tops (135 red mercs silver blocks) on the later carbs ( 150 blue decals and black blocks)

[Big_Totoro]

Hey guys!

I haven't pulled my Carbs yet. I have looked all over them but can't find any marking or number besides what I have already posted.

I decided to do a compression test today and pull the plugs again after this weekend.

My Compression number are as follows:

1- 125
2- 120
3- 120
4 - 125
5 - 125
6 - 125

I don't know what the number should be, but that's what I'm getting. I looked at the plugs again after this last trip 1-3 are chocolaty brown. 4 is a little lighter brown. 5-6 are almost clean light oil. Wouldn't that indicate that 4 is starting to get lean and 5-6 are lean?

Perhaps the fuel is not making it down to the lower cylinders?

Thanks!


EDIT:

Also This looks like my carb here, it's in this serial number range and I'm part of serial group #2 I think

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Merc2/Mercury/1150/7010763%20THRU%207112248/CARBURETOR%20ASSEMBLY%20%28SERIAL%20GROUP%20%232%29/parts.html

[Mark75H]

All those numbers look good. 3 & 4 are supplied by the same carb and the lower one usually runs slightly richer ... for 4 to be lean is unusual and improbable. 5-6 can't get oil without fuel.

[Big_Totoro]

I have another question. I'm re running my fuel line from my tank to the engine. I went with 3/8 ID.

The lines that connects the carbs and the line to the fuel pump what Inside diameter are those hoses?

[Robby321]

All those numbers look good. 3 & 4 are supplied by the same carb and the lower one usually runs slightly richer ... for 4 to be lean is unusual and improbable. 5-6 can't get oil without fuel.

Agree Sam. But as most us know (and I hate to bring this up but?) Possible water jacket compromised and letting water in? If the plugs look like "steam cleaned" that would tell more here. Best to clean the plugs, go for a blast, then pull all and show pix. That would tell us more. But I still don't think that a prob as should not cause bogging, but had to mention as cover all bases here.

[WillDiver]

I have another question. I'm re running my fuel line from my tank to the engine. I went with 3/8 ID.

The lines that connects the carbs and the line to the fuel pump what Inside diameter are those hoses?

All the fuel lines inside the cowlings should be 1/4 ID. You can step it up to 5/16, but you'll need to change out the brass barbs. Not hard, but just one more thing to alter..

Will

[Dave Strong]

Agree Sam. But as most us know (and I hate to bring this up but?) Possible water jacket compromised and letting water in? If the plugs look like "steam cleaned" that would tell more here. Best to clean the plugs, go for a blast, then pull all and show pix. That would tell us more. But I still don't think that a prob as should not cause bogging, but had to mention as cover all bases here.

It just needs new fuel hose, fuel pump rebuild, carbs OH, a good link and sync and all will be good. ;)
Stop screwing around and get her done. :D

Dave :)

[WillDiver]

It just needs new fuel hose, fuel pump rebuild, carbs OH, a good link and sync and all will be good. ;)
Stop screwing around and get her done. :D

Dave :)


While it all sounds a bit daunting, trust me, its pretty quick and easy. The carbs are a simple as I've ever seen. My boat couldn't get on plane till I ran all new hoses. total carb job was around 6 hours, and I was running again. Link n Sync was done last night in about 2 hours. Just do it, and run like a bat out of hell.
Will

[Robby321]

I have another question. I'm re running my fuel line from my tank to the engine. I went with 3/8 ID.

The lines that connects the carbs and the line to the fuel pump what Inside diameter are those hoses?
Like Will said, but THATS NOT THE PROB! Quit chasing wild horses. Rebuild the carbs and pump, new gas lines. That motor was built 41 YEARS ago, history unknown? Freshen it up and problem solved.

[Big_Totoro]

Hey

I am re running the gas lines. I'm just trying to get all the information I can for the parts I need.

I don't just want to rip everything apart and then scramble to get all the odds and ends I'll need.

Just trying to plan it out a bit and trying to get informed before I dive in :)

The Merc. Dealer where I live is not much help and couldn't even tell me the diameter of the hoses inside the cowl :/

[Dave Strong]

Should be 5/16" Id.

[WillDiver]

This is the best time to replace those hoses. Mine was 1/4 inch. If you're not sure, pop the hose off the outlet of the pump. Just be sure the hose you get is rated for premix fuel. I ran all the way from the tanks, to eliminate and chance of issues.

Will

[Big_Totoro]

So I replaced the cracked Pump to Carb hose today. Learned how to remove the starter. I took a video of what looks like water coming out of the spark plug holes. This is new, I've never noticed this before. Also it looks like the choke does not drop the shutter all the way back down. Is the spring too weak?

Sorry, every time I looks at this engine something else pops up :/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLxp5YwxARE

[Dave Strong]

Been hot at one time, not coming from the spark plug holes. Best case gasket on head cover blown, worst case head cover warped.

Dave

[Robby321]

Well, I'd forget anything carbs now or anything else. I'm seen more old Mercs trashed with water intrusion, and you are pouring water out the beast. I'm afraid the block will have to come off, exhaust plate and baffle plate off, head cover off (its only a cover as those Mecs do NOT have a removable "Head" as its cast as part of the block). And this work is beyond a back yard wrench as this is for a pro experienced old school Merc wrench. No easy fix, and aint gonna be cheap. I'm afraid we are talking a total take down and rebuild if possible. Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but gotta tell the truth.

[Big_Totoro]

Well isn't that awesome news! LOL

Well, I rebuilt my fuel pump. The diaphragm was disgusting! I'll attach a couple photo's.

I'm going to take it as a positive sign that after just priming the bulb, and fast idle up 1/4 way the engine fired from cold on the 2nd revolution. Didn't even use the choke. It's never done that before. The RPM at idle seemed to stabilize as well. Anyhow, I have to take my victories where I can get them.

I'm gathering a parts list now for the water jacket gasket and all the bolts because I've heard they basicly break off.

I'm going to take the boat to the lake tommorrow and see how she runs, even with the water issue.

Cheers!


325142325143

[Dave Strong]

The only time I have seen them leak there is after an overheat.

Dave

[Robby321]

Try it out! And as if the rear block COVER leaking? So what, as not a big deal as its just a water jacket. BUT, pull and check yer plugs to look for water intrusion that WILL, off the exhaust plate and baffle, let water in the jugs. Ya see any sign "steam cleaned" plugs? Well hope not. On the rear water jacket plate? I get a small drip mine too. No biggie. Try it with the new pump rebuild and hope the best!

[WillDiver]

So I replaced the cracked Pump to Carb hose today. Learned how to remove the starter. I took a video of what looks like water coming out of the spark plug holes. This is new, I've never noticed this before. Also it looks like the choke does not drop the shutter all the way back down. Is the spring too weak?

Sorry, every time I looks at this engine something else pops up :/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLxp5YwxARE

The first time there isn't SOMETHING waiting to be done on a boat, is the first day after you sold it!

Will

[Big_Totoro]

No steam cleaned plugs yet. They all have oil on them. Lake test in the morning! :)

[Big_Totoro]

Sooooo....

Did my lake test this morning. Mixed results.

I got up to 5500 RPM from a dead stop for about 3 seconds, then down to 3600 - 4000 RPM. I have way better throttle response since rebuilding the pump. I can slow down and then punch it and get up to 5500 RPM, which I could not do before.

So here is were it gets odd.

I'm now getting surging. Where the RPM will go from 3600 RPM to 5000 RPM but only at WOT. It's like it wants to go and it tries, but it can't.

Here is the next odd thing. I can replicate this surging on demand. All I do is rock the boat side to side not even alot. Enough I'm guessing to slosh the fuel around in the carbs maybe? It happens only on a right turn or when you straighten out the boat. Perhaps the motion is messing around with the floats in the carbs?

Regardless, I know that I will/should rebuild the carbs. Does this sound like anything you guys have experinced before?

Also, on a positive note, I have fixed the water jacket leak. I read about an old trick that Merc guys do. Applying RTV sealant were the gasket/jacket meets the spark plug opening in the cover. Worked perfectly. I'm sure this is not the best fix, but perhaps it will keep me boating a bit longer untill winter comes and I can do a tear down.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81eyWS7P0Ko


Also, noticed smoke coming out of the bottom Carb?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU_yx7qe1gs

[WillDiver]

I'd be suspicious of the gas tank. Do you have a portable you can hook up to try out? if it still acts wonky, that will narrow it to engine. If the issue goes away, it will rule out the engine. As for the smoke from the carb? My non-professional guess would be that the engine shut down with the reed open, and its the exhaust coming out. I wouldnt even be concerned about it.
But hey, its getting closer to running the way you want.

Will

[Big_Totoro]

Hey

I'm only using portable tanks right now. Brand new.

Cheers

[WillDiver]

Well, shucks...There goes another perfectly good idea. Back to the carbs, I guess. I don't know that you will be able to open the bowl caps without damaging the gasket. The floats are frequently the cause of many headaches.

Will

[Big_Totoro]

I've noticed when I prime the bulb and it gets firm, if I continue to prime fuel shoots out of a little hole on the back of the top carb housing.

[Dave Strong]

I've noticed when I prime the bulb and it gets firm, if I continue to prime fuel shoots out of a little hole on the back of the top carb housing.

Needle and seats are not holding, should not be able to blow a needle of its seat with a primer ball.

Dave

[Big_Totoro]

Needle and seats are not holding, should not be able to blow a needle of its seat with a primer ball.

Dave

Well this is a good sign then! I know that carb has a problem for sure. Perhaps this us the cause of my issue's?

[Big_Totoro]

So I pulled the Carbs today.

Looks like a sand box in #2 &#3 at the bottom of the float bowl. The floats themselves look ok, no gas in them and they were happily bobbing up and down when I opened the float bowl cover. There was a few points of note, and I'll attach photo's of these as well:

- Needle on #1 & #2 look like it sticks a bit when you put them upside down then right side up again.
- The "paddle" gapping on all 3 needles looks different. I think there is a very specific spec for these gaps?
- The needle and paddles on #1 look very different than the other 2 carbs. My guess is these were replaced with new ones on # 1 carb only?

325244325245325246


I also Found out I have WMK Carbs as well. MY secondary concern is that I've seen on all other carbs including this one that these brass plugs have red thread sealant on them.
None of my carbs have this thread sealant, and it looked as if fuel has been escaping out these fittings. Should I use permetex Red high heat thread sealant on all the brass fittings and plugs?

325247325248

[Robby321]

Get rebuild kits for 3 carbs and get to rebuilding. Order a FACTORY manual too.

[Big_Totoro]

Should I get new floats as well?

Some rebuild kits don't have the needles either.

So I should get all the gaskets floats needles and seats?

[Big_Totoro]

So what I had feared would happen has. Carbs are pulled, and I can't source any parts locally.

Anyone have any idea were I can buy the Carb Kit? Floats? Etc? Online?

My boating time is burning away :/


thanks!

[WillDiver]

Should I get new floats as well?

Some rebuild kits don't have the needles either.

So I should get all the gaskets floats needles and seats?
Yes to the new floats. There is a spring on top, and that can wear and deform. They were on sale when I got mine a couple weeks ago...Normally $8 each.

The Sierra kit I ordered had new needle and seats in the kit. The Mercury kit has them, and also has new tabs, the Sierra doesnt have the tabs. The settings are listed in the kit paper, and are easy to do, but important. After the rebuild, I no longer get gas dumping out. The hardest think about the job is just getting the carbs off the motor.

Will

[WillDiver]

So what I had feared would happen has. Carbs are pulled, and I can't source any parts locally.

Anyone have any idea were I can buy the Carb Kit? Floats? Etc? Online?

My boating time is burning away :/


thanks!
A really good place to start for parts is Joe @ http://www.fergusonpoolemarine.com (http://www.fergusonpoolemarine.com/) . I got mine from iBoats.

Will

[Dave Strong]

I have álways had good luck with IShop marine on odd ball stuff.

Dave

[Robby321]

A really good place to start for parts is Joe @ http://www.fergusonpoolemarine.com (http://www.fergusonpoolemarine.com/) . I got mine from iBoats.

Will Kid, I TOLD you to post "Fiberglassics" this but seems ya don't listen well. And hit goggle search and will find EVERYTHING needed. Ask there first. But again! Do the what needed to above link from Will. Joe Ferg will set ya up what needed. Kid I tried to help, but the rest is up to you. Yep, we all "learned" over life, and think we did the best here. And trust me, as theres "no dumb question", but we gave ya for free "knowledge", "what to do" Hope the best ya, but I'm backing off here. Can't think anything more me.

[WillDiver]

Forgot to mention. I got all my source references from fiberglassics. You wanna keep the old stuff alive, that is a great place to go.

[Big_Totoro]

Kid, I TOLD you to post "Fiberglassics" this but seems ya don't listen well. And hit goggle search and will find EVERYTHING needed. Ask there first. But again! Do the what needed to above link from Will. Joe Ferg will set ya up what needed. Kid I tried to help, but the rest is up to you. Yep, we all "learned" over life, and think we did the best here. And trust me, as theres "no dumb question", but we gave ya for free "knowledge", "what to do" Hope the best ya, but I'm backing off here. Can't think anything more me.

I listen just fine.

It's been 5 days and they have not "approved" or "activated" my account on fiberglassics. Please stop making assumptions, if you don't mind. I've also done the "google" search and have found alot of stuff. Lots of websites ell all kinds of stuff, and most of them don't look like they are updated or trust worthy.

I figured, I'd ask here to see where people have actually gotten their parts from.

I appreciate everyone's help, even yours. What I don't appreciate, is your assumptions, or your attitude towards me. I'm not a "Kid" far from it.
Do you see me going around calling people "Old Man"? No, because I'm treating everyone with respect.

Dave & Will, I'll check out those to places you mentioned, if you say they are legit, it makes me feel better about buying from them. I appreciate the help.

Cheers!

[Robby321]

I listen just fine.

It's been 5 days and they have not "approved" or "activated" my account on fiberglassics. Please stop making assumptions, if you don't mind. I've also done the "google" search and have found alot of stuff. Lots of websites ell all kinds of stuff, and most of them don't look like they are updated or trust worthy.

I figured, I'd ask here to see where people have actually gotten their parts from.

I appreciate everyone's help, even yours. What I don't appreciate, is your assumptions, or your attitude towards me. I'm not a "Kid" far from it.
Do you see me going around calling people "Old Man"? No, because I'm treating everyone with respect.

Dave & Will, I'll check out those to places you mentioned, if you say they are legit, it makes me feel better about buying from them. I appreciate the help.

Cheers!

Sorry the "ruffled feathers you", but you SHOULD have told ALL ya searched as that would not let us sent a wild goose chase. Age, location, etc. Prob FG? ASK ME!. Wish the best...and you have 26 post same subject? I'm closing in on 13,000, and ya gotta earn the respect others and learn that bashing another here? Soon shunned....

[Big_Totoro]

Sorry the "ruffled feathers you", but you SHOULD have told ALL ya searched as that would not let us sent a wild goose chase. Age, location, etc. Prob FG? ASK ME!. Wish the best...and you have 26 post same subject? I'm closing in on 13,000, and ya gotta earn the respect others and learn that bashing another here? Soon shunned....

Rob,

This is the last I will post to you on this subject. You talk about respect, but seem to demand it because of the time you have spent here? You talk about bashing others, but I have done nothing to you. You are the one who attacked me, without cause.

Perhaps you are upset, because I decided to call you on that?

Respect is earned, I will agree on that. You need to understand that goes both ways. I in no way shape or for was rude or disrespectful to you or anyone else. You took it upon yourself to disrespect me. I called you on that. Respect and being deceint to someone is not based on your post count or your age.

There is a lesson here if you care to really look, and it's not the one you think.

Thanks again for your Help.

[Big_Totoro]

So a status update y'all :D

I Ordered my kits and floats. I removed all the 40 year old nasty gasket left on the engine block and the backs of the carbs. I was surprised the Carbs actually were not on very tight when I removed them, I don't think they had a very good seal.

I also found those nasty little screens! They lived in the top of the float bowl cover, not in the actual fuel line. I pried them all out and about a 1/2 ounce of dust and crap fell out!

I sanded the carb backs down to remove the pitting/ and corrosion as well. It wasn't too bad.

Hopefully my parts will arrive tomorrow or the next day. that will leave me Friday to install and test, and If I'm lucky into the water for the weekend!

325357

[Big_Totoro]

Finished early so I did a test run at the lake ;)

Everything went very well! Thanks for all your help guys! I'm getting 36 mph on GPS. I'm not trimmed and had lots of fuel on board. Pretty good considering I was only getting 18 mph before

Now to squeeze a bit more speed out of her ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwJdajNcCbY

[WillDiver]

Good to hear that everything went well. See, easy, wasn't it? Now go play before the snow hits!

Will

[Dave Strong]

How high is it reving?

Dave

[Big_Totoro]

How high is it reving?

Dave



4900 - 5000 rpm.

I think it's rated for between 5000 - 5500 rpm

[Dave Strong]

Need more rpm like 55-5800 with one person.

Dave

[Big_Totoro]

Trimming up will help with the rpm correct?


I'm not to sure what else I could do.

[WillDiver]

Trimming up will help with the rpm correct?


I'm not to sure what else I could do.

Timing (linc n sync) has something to do with it, but so does prop. Too much prop will bog the motor, and too little will over rev it. At WOT, you want to see that the timing is at about 20 degree BTDC, and the butterflies are fully open. It could be as simple as a throttle cable adjustment.
Unfortunately for me, mine ran great after the carb job, but is now running like trash after the timing. I think a previous mechanic installed the distributor a little off, so my procedure is not going to hit the right spots. I'll be tearing into it some this week..

Will

[WillDiver]

Just looked up a reference from Doc Frankenmerc. For a 1150 motor, Mercury recommends top RPM of 4800 to 5300.
Check the USCG plate on the boat for max hp engine, if it's 115, then maybe playing with props is your next ticket. If you're at a 17" now, go to a vented 19. Just an idea.

Will

[Big_Totoro]

Max HP for the boat is 150 hp.

Interesting about the RPM range you mentioned. Looks like I'm right in the middle of max range.

My service manual I could have sworn said 5000-5500

Won't going up in prop size lower my RPM further?

[WillDiver]

Thats the black arts of props. it might drop the RPM a little, might hold steady. depends on the design of the prop and how the engine is rigged. maybe drop it a size. maybe same pitch, slightly smaller diameter... its all kinda play and experiment. I want to try some different props, (after i get the dern motor to run right) but dont want to drop $300 just to try.

Will

[Mark75H]

If I were running a 17 around 5k, I would not try any 19

[Big_Totoro]

Hey everyone :D

So I trimmed up as much as I could with this engine, and got a solid 40 MPH. I think that's the max rated speed for this prop as well. I think for now, I'm going to leave good enough alone! I may try a 19 pitch prop but really at the end of the day I don't know if it's a good investment/risk to take to try and squeeze another 10-15 MPH out of the boat.

Thanks again for all your help!

[Dave Strong]

Need speed and engine rpm.

Dave

[Big_Totoro]

Need speed and engine rpm.

Dave


5000 RPM
40 MPH on the GPS

[Dave Strong]

If your running a 17 do not even think about a 19. You running the old aluminum props?

Dave

[Dave Strong]

If your running a 17 do not even think about a 19. You running the old aluminum props?

Dave

[Big_Totoro]

If your running a 17 do not even think about a 19. You running the old aluminum props?

Dave

Correct old aluminum