Tuff Boat on Long Island

[Dirk Pitt]

Since the Tuff 28 project fell apart, I drove to Florida and bought John Mcnights 21 Tuff boat, I want to publicly thank John for all the curtesies he exstended to me, he is one of the kindess gentleman I have ever met, his attention to detail is incrediable, his boat cave is nothing like I have ever seen, he truly made the transaction painless and pleasurable "Thank you John"
The boat really is a piece of jewery...... it is so beautiful he did a incrediable job, so did Tuff obviously, you really have to see it to appricate the beauty of his detail to rigging......and the craftmanship of Tuff

[Chummy]

Cant wait to see what you do with it, congrats on the new boat

[CUDA]

Like that color ,
How wide it that pad ? is the pad the same on the 28?

[Bobbyclam]

Best of luck
awesome boat
have fun with it. !!!!

[Dirk Pitt]

Thank you Im pretty excited, but what do I power it with? I wont put a G2 on it because of steering, so a 300 G1 or a 300XS?
pros cons? Im leaning towards the G2 because of warrenty and engineering, between the two aestheticly the white motor will look incredible on it, but Im not sure Ill be able to get it to go, and when i get the boat back (its getting a full cover made right now) Ill try and answer all those questions.....

[AMERICANRAM]

Best of luck with your new ride.....

[Dirk Pitt]

Best of luck with your new ride.....
Boy that 28 skater is beautiful? I really miss it..................you have a beautiful boat

[CharlieN]

Good choice to go with this 21. It would be interesting to see a G2 modded and rigged to handle rough water, the tech in those motors is as impressive as what the Tuff hulls offer.

[Davidlake]

You need to put a 300xs on it with a 1.62 sport master. If you want power steering, use a Verado power steering pump. I used one on my Skater and absolutely love it. The G2 does not have low water pick-ups so getting the motor high enough to exploit the Tuff hull won't be possible. JMO Good luck, that is an awesome boat!

[AZMIDLYF]

Tuff/G2...first for both would be cool

[Bobbyclam]

What about the 400 ???
too heavy ?

[Davidlake]

What about the 400 ???
too heavy ?
Yes, in my opinion. The 300XS weighs 505#, the 400 Verado weighs 697#, but a 300X only weighs 465#.... If you can find one!

[dnelson964]

Congrats Joe !!

Sounds like a great chose in the end.....I played with the thought of grabbing that 21' Myself. :cool: :thumbsup:

[half fast]

Congrats ,that is a nice piece.Keep us updated on your progress.I have to say it did run well with 300 X merc power. hf...

[FlatSleek]

Congrat's Joe, that is one Beautiful 21:cool: I had a feeling this was about to happen. All this talk about the excessive weight of the 400??? maybe not a perfect balance but the 21's with twins seem to run well as you know. Anything less than the 400 just ain't gonna do it for you IMHO LOL. You're right about John, he is as good as they come:thumbsup: Everything he does is top notch.

Black 400 with graphics same color as the boat would be bad ass!!

[Frank Molé]

looks great,get the X

[Dirk Pitt]

I know all the choice's you guys present are valid options, the x of course is bad as they come, the xs is a proven option with plenty of data to go with it, the 400r I think is smoke and mirrors, if its not at 6900 7000 range, its not producing the top of the hp range, than theres the g2, very impressive, but steering is the issue with that, and lastly the 300g1, where water pressure may be an issue, but that I have an option of taking the gear case and modifying to a sportmaters specs, size and demensions,and location of water pickups, I can also put water directly to the power head via a flush pickup on either side of the pad, Im honestly leaning towards white, Bombardier is light years ahead of Mercury in so many aspects...................althought the outboards, jetskis etc, are owned by the family, they have taken there products to another level...

[CharlieN]

You can feed the waterpump from a transom pickup easily enough.

[mragu]

Greetings from the Mediterranean sea. Will be in ROme tomorrow. I thought you were waiting for me to come back?:) Congrats! Why would you go with a 400R on this when you can send an X or XS to DBS and get 370HP. Then the 15" mid.

[noli]

... I want to publicly thank John for all the curtesies he exstended to me, he is one of the kindess gentleman I have ever met, his attention to detail is incrediable, his boat cave is nothing like I have ever seen, he truly made the transaction painless and pleasurable "Thank you John"
The boat really is a piece of jewery...... it is so beautiful he did a incrediable job, so did Tuff obviously, you really have to see it to appricate the beauty of his detail to rigging......and the craftmanship of Tuff
.


Everything that I experienced as well with John M.

You gotta see the 300X I just bought from him... (def marine jewelry)

Dirk, congrats on a beautiful boat. I luv the color and interior as well.

Who knows, perhaps a Tuff 28 is still in your future.





.

[noli]

.
Dirk,

Just looked at your attached pic.

looks like that Tuff just rolled out of the factory




.

[Dirk Pitt]

.


Everything that I experienced as well with John M.

You gotta see the 300X I just bought from him... (def marine jewelry)

Dirk, congrats on a beautiful boat. I luv the color and interior as well.

Who knows, perhaps a Tuff 28 is still in your future.





.
Thanks Noli, but a that Tuff 28 "DEMO" will never be in my future.........

[Dirk Pitt]

Greetings from the Mediterranean sea. Will be in ROme tomorrow. I thought you were waiting for me to come back?:) Congrats! Why would you go with a 400R on this when you can send an X or XS to DBS and get 370HP. Then the 15" mid.
Shouldnt you be eating Greek salad?:eek:

[Dirk Pitt]

this how I found the boat, air conditioned, john calls it a Boat Cave, i would consider it a museum, a testament, to Mercury Marine, if I had to guess he bleeds black, the detail, the organization, you could have dinner off the floor, i just cant say enough good stuff about him, if anyone ever gets the opportunity to buy anything from him dont even give it a second thought...................

[Superbender]

Joe congrats on new boat,you just can't beat the performance of the Mercury 300xs,the g2 is geared toward fisherman/pleasure boaters not even on the platform as the Mercury.besides that are you really gonna be happy with hoser kicking the tar out of you and that fine boat every weekend?Again best of luck I'm jealous

[Dirk Pitt]

Joe congrats on new boat,you just can't beat the performance of the Mercury 300xs,the g2 is geared toward fisherman/pleasure boaters not even on the platform as the Mercury.besides that are you really gonna be happy with hoser kicking the tar out of you and that fine boat every weekend?Again best of luck I'm jealous
your right about the xs the data is all there, but 300hp is 300 hp, the rpm range is identical, the varable is the gear case, i have someone that can modify it to the demensions of a sportmaster, FYi I know you know Chris Cox, he has a 27 kyptonite, it had a 300x, joey took it off and put a 300 g2 the boat went the same speed, now as far as Hoser, he deserves to beat me after all the times i gave it to him;):D
Im just curious where are all the evenrude guys?

[CharlieN]

Joe congrats on new boat,you just can't beat the performance of the Mercury 300xs,the g2 is geared toward fisherman/pleasure boaters not even on the platform as the Mercury.
So are Yamahas but you have a crew that does alright.

[pointer]

So why isn't the Tuff 28 going to Long Island?

pointer

[Dirk Pitt]

I don't know what you mean we just chase the fish .I love my fish motor but Mercury is the best :iagree:. I think the etec is nice but we're do you go for warranty work?

man you bring up a great point, I have that covered as long as he's around LOL,
but this is my dilemma, I have had nothing but Mercs all my life, and Im not bashing them because Ive spend thousands on there products, and they Mercury the company has always been good to me because of my relationship wit a certain someone.... saying that now I have a choice, for a mere $20000.00 I get the privilage to go maybe ??? faster I dont really know maybe our leader ( the Great Werner Von Baum ) knows, but anyway, for that privilage I get to change the engine cowl to a Ness foer another grand or so, install that great idea that Razor had plumbing a filter to compensate for compressor noise, modify the gear case so i dont get water in it, and use 93 octain gas vs 83, and more 2 cycle oil with a 2 year warranty, now really if we were smart which would we choose....

[2.5-21]

Congrats, I saw the boat the other day....
Looks real nice you sure you want to get salt on it? LOL!
Do you plan to weigh it before you put a motor on it? Gershow in lindenhurst has a drive on scale Just weigh the whole thing then bring the trailer without the boat.
The weight might answer a lot of peoples questions.

[Dirk Pitt]

also the etec has a small shaft not fat shaft . it would answer a lot if weight was posted thanks. I think putting a sporty on etec would fix that . yes etec guys have a lot figured out would be nice to hear from them

they make a hub kit for the fat shaft props........ and yes where o where are the etec guys?

[TMc]

Lars Strom on here was the Evinrude ambassador for BRP you might pm him for more info on the G2.

[AZMIDLYF]

Here is a thread Lars has going on the G2..
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?308525-Nitra-and-Evinrude-250H-O-V6-G2-is-going-racing

[Dirk Pitt]

this is pretty funny worlds fastest outboard not Merc...........▶ Evinrude V8 is the world's fastest outboard EVER- 176.556mph average - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLDM1kE8pVw)......

[Superbender]

this is pretty funny worlds fastest outboard not Merc...........▶ Evinrude V8 is the world's fastest outboard EVER- 176.556mph average - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLDM1kE8pVw)......
Joe what was the warranty on that v8,don't discount the Mercury midsection as well.now if you didn't care about warranty the g2 power head on a merc mid and gearcase that would be the ticket

[powerabout]

Joe what was the warranty on that v8,don't discount the Mercury midsection as well.now if you didn't care about warranty the g2 power head on a merc mid and gearcase that would be the ticket
Merc midsection, you lost me?

[Scream And Fly]

Congrats on that new boat, it sure is beautiful. I hope I can see it (and photograph it) this summer.

Greg

[CharlieN]

Joe what was the warranty on that v8,don't discount the Mercury midsection as well.now if you didn't care about warranty the g2 power head on a merc mid and gearcase that would be the ticket
That would be an interesting adapter plate. The G2 exhaust comes down as two separate streams to the port side of each cylinder bank. Once figured out it would make a fabulous motor but I expect a full custom mid might be easier than adapting one in this case.
The best thing about a custom swap like this is the freedom to have a much better looking cowl rather than having some cartoon caricature on the stern.

[Dirk Pitt]

Congrats on that new boat, it sure is beautiful. I hope I can see it (and photograph it) this summer.

Greg
Greg
yes and Better yet come and drive it so you can give your opinion

[Trimmed Out15]

First twin tuff? What is the weight diff between 2 2.5s or the 400r? We all know you made the twin boat run. Good luck with your new ride.

[CharlieN]

First twin tuff? What is the weight diff between 2 2.5s or the 400r?

Pretty close to equal.

[GRH]

this is pretty funny worlds fastest outboard not Merc...........▶ Evinrude V8 is the world's fastest outboard EVER- 176.556mph average - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLDM1kE8pVw)......

I was there that day..... Boat used to hang in a restaurant outside Disneyworld in Florida....

Congratulations on your new boat.... sure is beautiful!

[baja200merk]

they make a hub kit for the fat shaft props........ and yes where o where are the etec guys?

It shounds like the g2 will need a wingplate and side ram. This is not rocket science but will it void the warranty?

the gear case dimensions do not seem to be much different then the m2 case on the g1. I've been 105mph with the m2 case with no nose cone. The lack of gear needs to be addressed by using a much bigger prop then you would on a 1.62. If you normally run a 1.62 with 28-30p you will need a 34-36 p with the 1.85. I ran my 36p bravo on a buddy's 21 rally sport 225ho etec. It got on plane fine but the boat was extremely heavy over 600lbs heavier then the fast sobs on here so it would never fly.

You can run all the same props as the merc.

[Dirk Pitt]

It shounds like the g2 will need a wingplate and side ram. This is not rocket science but will it void the warranty?

the gear case dimensions do not seem to be much different then the m2 case on the g1. I've been 105mph with the m2 case with no nose cone. The lack of gear needs to be addressed by using a much bigger prop then you would on a 1.62. If you normally run a 1.62 with 28-30p you will need a 34-36 p with the 1.85. I ran my 36p bravo on a buddy's 21 rally sport 225ho etec. It got on plane fine but the boat was extremely heavy over 600lbs heavier then the fast sobs on here so it would never fly.

You can run all the same props as the merc.
thanks for that great info

[J. McKnight]

Thank you Scream and Fly for providing the platform to sell my Tuff 21. It all starts with Greg's incredible online magazine for us performance boat junkies. Thank you Greg! It continues with a great bunch of members that make up the S and F community. For those of you that know me, it is no secret that I have a love affair with my boats. When I move on to my next project, I get a little anxious about putting my "pride and joy" up for sale. It is extremely important for me to find a good home for my rigs. That being said, I am over the top thrilled that Joe Lanfranchi [Dirk Pitt] is the proud new owner of my Tuff and will be tearing up the bay of Long Island. Joe is a first class gentleman who has a passion for high performance. He is very knowledgeable, very experienced and takes meticulous care of his equipment. My kind of guy! I couldn't be more pleased with my "baby's" new home. I look forward to many years of our friendship. As much as I love to put new boats together, what I love even more about this boat thing is the fellowship among us go fast guys. I can't wait to see what power Joe chooses to install on the Tuff. Most of you are aware that I am a die hard Merc Fan as my trailer tag states. Because I like things that are different however, part of me thinks it would be really cool to think out of the box, get away from the mundane and go "white". Can't really believe I said that. We have to admit it is an intriguing proposition isn't it? I hope Joe selects his power shortly, the suspense is killing me!

Again, thank you to the entire Scream and Fly community!!

John C. McKnight

[TooStroked]

Thank you Scream and Fly for providing the platform to sell my Tuff 21. It all starts with Greg's incredible online magazine for us performance boat junkies. Thank you Greg! It continues with a great bunch of members that make up the S and F community. For those of you that know me, it is no secret that I have a love affair with my boats. When I move on to my next project, I get a little anxious about putting my "pride and joy" up for sale. It is extremely important for me to find a good home for my rigs. That being said, I am over the top thrilled that Joe Lanfranchi [Dirk Pitt] is the proud new owner of my Tuff and will be tearing up the bay of Long Island. Joe is a first class gentleman who has a passion for high performance. He is very knowledgeable, very experienced and takes meticulous care of his equipment. My kind of guy! I couldn't be more pleased with my "baby's" new home. I look forward to many years of our friendship. As much as I love to put new boats together, what I love even more about this boat thing is the fellowship among us go fast guys. I can't wait to see what power Joe chooses to install on the Tuff. Most of you are aware that I am a die hard Merc Fan as my trailer tag states. Because I like things that are different however, part of me thinks it would be really cool to think out of the box, get away from the mundane and go "white". Can't really believe I said that. We have to admit it is an intriguing proposition isn't it? I hope Joe selects his power shortly, the suspense is killing me!

Again, thank you to the entire Scream and Fly community!!

John C. McKnight

John,

Wow, thank you for sharing that story and taking the time to not only own and take care of an awesome boat - but pass it on to a new, deserving owner as well. Your story reminded me of how I came to own my present boat.

About 20 years ago, I was getting my 1986 Checkmate inspected by the Coast Guard and the inspector couldn't get over how perfect everything was. "There's only one other person I know who's as picky as you are" he said. "What's he own?" was my reply. "He's got a 22 Progression." I told him to call his buddy and tell him that if he ever wanted to sell it, I'd like to be first in line. Well, a few weeks later, the phone rang. I drove 4 hours to test drive and strike a deal for it. And yes, it was in almost perfect condition.

Now here's the neat part. I talked the previous owner - who upgraded to an identically colored 24' Progression into coming (a 5 1/2 hour drive) up here for a Poker Run that I helped organize. He's come every single year with his wife since then. She still marvels at the shape of their "old" boat. Yes, it still pretty much looks like the day it rolled out of the factory - like your Tuff.

Keep up the good work!

Tom

[Southbayrider]

Can't wait to see that out

[Dirk Pitt]

motors motors motors Im so tossed:confused: one part says think out of the box go white, but than theres the dark side just pulling back in:eek:

[AZMIDLYF]

How much of the Merc set up is still on it?

[Dirk Pitt]

How much of the Merc set up is still on it?
Its all there just plug and play with a Merc x

[CharlieN]

Its all there just plug and play with a Merc x
That can get you on the water quick. You can then spend the time to research and develop an alternative.

[RobF]

motors motors motors Im so tossed:confused: one part says think out of the box go white, but than theres the dark side just pulling back in:eek:


think ed will be selling his XS's this winter

[JerseyChris]

Congrats on the new boat.. It is simply beautiful.. Best of luck with it.. :)

[AZMIDLYF]

Its all there just plug and play with a Merc x

^^^This definitely tilts things towards the darkness. Lol

[J. McKnight]

Hi Tom,

Thank you for your kind words and very cool story. Your Progression 22 looks like a "super" ride. Isn't it fun how things come about in this great fraternity of high performance enthusiasts? By the way, although we reside in Florida now, I was raised in Rochester. I have fond memories of my childhood in Rochester. I got my boating fetish spending our summers on the St. Lawrence River in Alexandria Bay. Again Tom, thanks for your kind words and enjoy your Progression!

Kindest regards,

John

[TooStroked]

Hi Tom,

Thank you for your kind words and very cool story. Your Progression 22 looks like a "super" ride. Isn't it fun how things come about in this great fraternity of high performance enthusiasts? By the way, although we reside in Florida now, I was raised in Rochester. I have fond memories of my childhood in Rochester. I got my boating fetish spending our summers on the St. Lawrence River in Alexandria Bay. Again Tom, thanks for your kind words and enjoy your Progression!

Kindest regards,

John

Wow, small world! How cool that you grew up in my home town! I still live in the lakeside community of Charlotte - less than 400' from Lake Ontario. That's where my Progression spends most of it's time and where my ashes will end up someday. That's also about the same time my Progression will end up for sale because somebody will have to pry it out of my hands.

If I'm ever down in Florida, can I look you up and maybe drop by to visit your awesome boat cave?

Tom

[Greg G]

Since the Tuff 28 project fell apart, I drove to Florida and bought John Mcnights 21 Tuff boat, I want to publicly thank John for all the curtesies he exstended to me, really have to see it to appricate the beauty of his detail to rigging......and the craftmanship of Tuff


I know all the choice's you guys present are valid options, the x of course is bad as they come, the xs is a proven option with plenty of data to go with it, the 400r I think is smoke and mirrors. than theres the g2, very impressive, but steering is the issue with that, and lastly the 300g1, where water pressure may be an issue, but that I have an option of taking the gear case and modifying to a sportmaters specs and location of water pickups, I can also put water directly to the power head via a flush pickup on either side of the pad, Im honestly leaning towards white, Bombardier is light years ahead of Mercury in so many aspects.

This is all very easy ...........

Step 1 - Complete fabrication of full cover to protect McKnight's baby properly
Step 2 - Empty gas tank and weigh boat and trailer on digital scale mentioned earlier
Step 3 - Remove boat and weigh just the Phoenix steel trailer. Now you know the true and accurate boat weight you will be pushing
Step 4 - Put $10k in a brown paper bag and buy "Trimmed Out15's" mint 300X 15" off his 100mph boat
Step 5 - Plug and play said motor and go boating next weekend with Smartcraft protection

Now that you have the boat in the drink, you can get used to it and how it behaves with a motor that you are familiar with. The seat time for the remainder of this season will help you determine what will be needed for the "new age" BRP re-rig project which of course is a must do. You'll hire Racer as a consultant and have all Winter to do the needed research, and sort out the White Knight for next season.

Step 6 - Sell 300X SS for $10k
Step 7 - Become BRP poster child when the white 300 pushes the 2015 Tuff 21 to 100mph with transom mounted water inlet, gets great mpg, and has 7 years of warranty

:thumbsup:

[DoktorC]

Get a yamaha SHO and a 90 shot.... :)

[J. McKnight]

Hi Tom,

Sounds like you have great set up being just 400' feet from the lake. Lake Ontario can get a little choppy and I bet that your Progression is the right rig to handle it. If you are ever down my way, I would love to meet you, a friend from my hometown of Rochester. It would be my pleasure to show you the "boat Cave". You are welcome anytime.

My very best to you,

John

[Greg G]

Get a yamaha SHO and a 90 shot.... :)

Naaah..........Canadian hull needs the Québécois Canadian motor. They can shake and make friends.

[DoktorC]

no sho for a tuff go merc or brp

Don't be SHO negative :).


But I agree...buy an XS and be done with it. Reinventing the wheel with the G2 seems like a waste of resources...

[Dirk Pitt]

Don't be SHO negative :).


But I agree...buy an XS and be done with it. Reinventing the wheel with the G2 seems like a waste of resources...

I dont think its reinventing the wheel, I see it has thinking outside the box, hp is hp, really the only thing that changes is a wiring harness, and a oil tank, yes theres the gear case issue, but in my opinion everything tha BRP brings to the table out weighs the difference in speed if any, I have the comparison data from the orginal owner with the 300x, so we will see.....,.,

[2.5-21]

I dont think its reinventing the wheel, I see it has thinking outside the box, hp is hp, really the only thing that changes is a wiring harness, and a oil tank, yes theres the gear case issue, but in my opinion everything tha BRP brings to the table out weighs the difference in speed if any, I have the comparison data from the orginal owner with the 300x, so we will see.....,.,

Problem is no 2 motors are as described! below is the proof

http://www.davebushracing.com/mercury-optimax300x-update.html

[Jamescole]

Glad to see a tuff made it to the east coast.

we all know an x or xs is gonna work. but doesn't anyone want to see a G2 break 100 on a tuff?

go for the G2... everyone has a merc. dont be like everyone else.lol

[Dirk Pitt]

Ill will defenitly keep you posted as this progresses, its time to do something different, plus that boat with a white motor is going to be a head turner

[hoser]

Great job joe
id like to see a merc 400 on that boat

[AZMIDLYF]

I would really get a thrill seeing an E-tec get the chance to strut its stuff here.

[kbirdmon]

You should make this the firt Tuff to run Class 7 OPA...... Just a suggestion

[RobF]

Ill will defenitly keep you posted as this progresses, its time to do something different, plus that boat with a white motor is going to be a head turner


spill the beans already you know the washwomen have already circulated all the engine rumors anyhow :D

[AZMIDLYF]

Nice looking Apache^^^

[Dirk Pitt]

spill the beans already you know the washwomen have already circulated all the engine rumors anyhow :D

Ok Ok, I ordered the G1, it should be here in about 2 weeks, rigging should only take a day or so....
so now we will see, I know Wernor Von Braun could probably give us every detail on prop sizes, rpm ranges, set back, and handling characteristics of the G1:rolleyes: but I much rather wait, it like an expecting father I dont want to know the sex:smiletest:

[Dirk Pitt]

are you looking to run the flats for top end ? run the Long Island rough water? or set up for all around fun ?
I will never go outside (Ocean)with a SOB, but I will put it on the edge just to see how TOUGH Tuff really is, I just hope all the speed hype is for real, and not a figment of the builders imagination.......Honestly I never asked John Mcnight how fast his boat went with the x, I know his set up was conservitive which I totally understood, reason is the result of maturation

[DoktorC]

I will never go outside (Ocean)with a SOB, but I will put it on the edge just to see how TOUGH Tuff really is, I just hope all the speed hype is for real, and not a figment of the builders imagination.......Honestly I never asked John Mcnight how fast his boat went with the x, I know his set up was conservitive which I totally understood, reason is the result of maturation

Put a real motor on it with someone who knows how to set one up and you won't have an issue....half a$$ing it won't be the builders fault. XS/DBR....set it...and forget it :).

[dnelson964]

Put a real motor on it with someone who knows how to set one up and you won't have an issue....half a$$ing it won't be the builders fault. XS/DBR....set it...and forget it :).

I like that ...."set it..and forget it ! ".....but you still need a few props to switch around with.

We may be aging but SOB's seem to have some connection to the fountain of youth......so I'm sticking with it. :thumbsup:

[Dirk Pitt]

Put a real motor on it with someone who knows how to set one up and you won't have an issue....half a$$ing it won't be the builders fault. XS/DBR....set it...and forget it :).
I have "ONE" of the best "SETUP" men in the business. If anyone can sqeeze every MPH out of this particular setup he will, you see I dont pretend to be Werner Von braum,or Carl Kiekhaefer,and know doubt that xs/dbr would probably be bad a$$, but I see you have a Yammi,:thumbsup: why? releiability?, low maintance costs?, respectable speed?, better warrenty, ? better customer service? I wonder??????:smiletest: As far as the buider, Im one of 2 0r 3 people on this board that has direct contact with him, has spend hours with him, has had thousands of words exchanged with him, I have not one bit of convidence in anything he says....but thats for another thread.... and boy that will be a duzzy

[DM1]

Dirk, I'm glad you went Evinrude, but curious why you landed on the G1?

[DoktorC]

I have a yamaha and love it...but if I could write the cheque (and it not bounce) I'd be running a short DBR XS...same boat as mine with the DBR set up runs 10mph faster and uses way less fuel. The rest of merc you guys can keep...but that one particular motor flat out works.

I also have a barn full of yamaha's and like to play around with stuff so I'm not switching teams...but fresh sheet of paper and money in the account the XS is a no brainer. Maybe you don't get any Internet hero points for building a boat that works but you'll have a 100+ mph SOB so who gives a Sh...

[Dirk Pitt]

Dirk, I'm glad you went Evinrude, but curious why you landed on the G1?
In one word STEERING, theres nothing off the shelf yet....

[Dirk Pitt]

I have a yamaha and love it...but if I could write the cheque (and it not bounce) I'd be running a short DBR XS...same boat as mine with the DBR set up runs 10mph faster and uses way less fuel. The rest of merc you guys can keep...but that one particular motor flat out works.

I also have a barn full of yamaha's and like to play around with stuff so I'm not switching teams...but fresh sheet of paper and money in the account the XS is a no brainer. Maybe you don't get any Internet hero points for building a boat that works but you'll have a 100+ mph SOB so who gives a Sh...

Your right except one thing they work right when you mod the gear case, the engine cowl and pan, and the compressor....now try and warrenty it.... i cant imagine not taking the engine cover off for three years:eek:

[dnelson964]

Ok Ok, I ordered the G1, it should be here in about 2 weeks, rigging should only take a day or so....
so now we will see, I know Wernor Von Braun could probably give us every detail on prop sizes, rpm ranges, set back, and handling characteristics of the G1:rolleyes: but I much rather wait, it like an expecting father I dont want to know the sex:smiletest:

Dirk you're doing the right thing ! Congrats and I can't wait to see your success ...variety is the Spice of life

[progression22]

Wow the first tuff hits long island. Congrats dirk. Cant wait to see u out there.

[goneby]

I have "ONE" of the best "SETUP" men in the business. If anyone can sqeeze every MPH out of this particular setup he will, you see I dont pretend to be Werner Von braum,or Carl Kiekhaefer,and know doubt that xs/dbr would probably be bad a$$, but I see you have a Yammi,:thumbsup: why? releiability?, low maintance costs?, respectable speed?, better warrenty, ? better customer service? I wonder??????:smiletest: As far as the buider, Im one of 2 0r 3 people on this board that has direct contact with him, has spend hours with him, has had thousands of words exchanged with him, I have not one bit of convidence in anything he says....but thats for another thread.... and boy that will be a duzzy
Am I missing something,you have no confidence in the builder of the boat?

[progression22]

324603

[Mitchie]

Your right except one thing they work right when you mod the gear case, the engine cowl and pan, and the compressor....now try and warrenty it.... i cant imagine not taking the engine cover off for three years:eek:

You had me going for awhile reading this thread.... Then I read about not taking off the cowl and realized that the whole thread is a joke.

[DM1]

Interesting... Not sure I understand the need for aftermarket steering. Either way the time has past to weigh in and congrats are in order so, Congrats on your new boat and engine!

[Dirk Pitt]

Interesting... Not sure I understand the need for aftermarket steering. Either way the time has past to weigh in and congrats are in order so, Congrats on your new boat and engine!

The truth is I dont really know if I made the right choice, but my reasoning is as follows !- Warrenty, 2- aesthetics,3-engineering,4- just something different, Im buying a 300x also so if I made a big bo bo, Ill just swap it out and make a planter out of the white motor

[Dirk Pitt]

Interesting... Not sure I understand the need for aftermarket steering. Either way the time has past to weigh in and congrats are in order so, Congrats on your new boat and engine!
that internal power assit steering may be probematic in our application

[Dirk Pitt]

Am I missing something,you have no confidence in the builder of the boat?
in no way am I saying anything derogatory about "THE BOAT" , my confidence level is ZERO, as far as the builders integrity,:nonod::nonod::nonod::nonod::nonod::nonod::nonod::nonod::nonod: and business prowess...:nonod::nonod::nonod::nonod::nonod::nonod::nonod::nonod::nonod:

[baja200merk]

Order a 36p bravo now and have it cut and tightened up. Your gonna need it

[AZMIDLYF]

Here's to you not taking up gardening anytime soon. I will enjoy watching you bring this combo to life.

[baja200merk]

Shoot me a message when you get the motor we just did a Gearcase mod that picked up over 10mph on a 21 checkmate. :thumbsup:

[Dirk Pitt]

Interesting... Not sure I understand the need for aftermarket steering. Either way the time has past to weigh in and congrats are in order so, Congrats on your new boat and engine!

thank you I really appriciate all the confidence and support from my brother FLYERS:thumbsup:

[Dirk Pitt]

Order a 36p bravo now and have it cut and tightened up. Your gonna need it
if i could turn a 36 that like 102mph:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: In dreaming:nonod::nonod:

[DM1]

Dirk, I can only suspect you got a little spooked from the bs that spread about a few early release G2's that experienced the migration of the helix. The migration of the helix was due to improperly installed retention clip. There were a very limited number of engines that were suspect to have the improperly installed clip. Evinrude dealers that sold or had engines in inventory that fell in the serial group were over nighted the tools to test the system. As of last week only two engines were known to have failed and these were the same two engines that prompted the the safety recall. So I hope you realize this is not an epidemic by any means. I personally have performed the test and I can tell you if the test itself couldn't break the steering nothing will. I beleave someone eluded to the gears being made of plastic. This is simply not true. The helix gears are machined metal gears. Also in regards to the swivel bracket and the transom assembly. If you put the G1 and G2 side by side you would see the G2 dwarfs the G1 assembly. In fact the G2 is considerably stronger and more rigid than the G1 assemble. This was not by accident. The Evinrude engineers realized the old transom bracket design that everyone uses has considerable amounts of flex while under load. So they built in structural rigidity into the G2 assembly to combat flex. As for not knowing if you made the right decision. I always say if its your decision, its the right one. But also please be aware as I noticed you mentioned you won't be playing out in the rough stuff to often and flat out playing in the back water is where its at. Stock out of the box the G2 300 Spanks the G1 300 in power and performance while getting better fuel economy and way easier on oil consumption. I don't mean to cast doubt with your purchase. The G1 Is a great platform (tried and true) and you will be very happy with her. In the end we can't escape the cost divide between the G1 and the G2 and Ive seen it first hand to be a major factor for some. Its all going G2 guys like it or not but the G2 lives up to the hype and thats a good thing.

[Dirk Pitt]

Dirk, I can only suspect you got a little spooked from the bs that spread about a few early release G2's that experienced the migration of the helix. The migration of the helix was due to improperly installed retention clip. There were a very limited number of engines that were suspect to have the improperly installed clip. Evinrude dealers that sold or had engines in inventory that fell in the serial group were over nighted the tools to test the system. As of last week only two engines were known to have failed and these were the same two engines that prompted the the safety recall. So I hope you realize this is not an epidemic by any means. I personally have performed the test and I can tell you if the test itself couldn't break the steering nothing will. I beleave someone eluded to the gears being made of plastic. This is simply not true. The helix gears are machined metal gears. Also in regards to the swivel bracket and the transom assembly. If you put the G1 and G2 side by side you would see the G2 dwarfs the G1 assembly. In fact the G2 is considerably stronger and more rigid than the G1 assemble. This was not by accident. The Evinrude engineers realized the old transom bracket design that everyone uses has considerable amounts of flex while under load. So they built in structural rigidity into the G2 assembly to combat flex. As for not knowing if you made the right decision. I always say if its your decision, its the right one. But also please be aware as I noticed you mentioned you won't be playing out in the rough stuff to often and flat out playing in the back water is where its at. Stock out of the box the G2 300 Spanks the G1 300 in power and performance while getting better fuel economy and way easier on oil consumption. I don't mean to cast doubt with your purchase. The G1 Is a great platform (tried and true) and you will be very happy with her. In the end we can't escape the cost divide between the G1 and the G2 and Ive seen it first hand to be a major factor for some. Its all going G2 guys like it or not but the G2 lives up to the hype and thats a good thing.

thank you for that info, where I got this info was when I was up in Canada, it appeared the 250 G2 had to have this gear replaced, the owner explained that on a previous test ride the driver was jerking on the steering wheel which according to him caused this gear to fail, now ths boat is soley used on a lake up there no rough stuff, based on this conversation i thought it might be wise to wait and let the engineers sort the bugs out, historiclly 1st year productions usually have there little querks. thus I made the desicion to purchase the G1, but again thank you, maybe if I would have known this I may of gone G2

[DM1]

Dirk, Sorry for the late delivery of info. Evinrude is in the second year of production with the G2. I have a fair amount of G2's in the field and with the exception of one of them having a control head issue. The engines have been flawless for their owners. However I will say, I can't speak to the longevity of the G2 simply because their to new to have the track record the G1 holds. Fact is the G1 is bullet proof and many dealers are more comfortable with the G1 platform. But you can't escape the fact Evinrude worked on the G2 for years before release knowing full well that BRP didn't want to re-live the OMC days of the miserable failure of the Fitch. BRP also knew they didn't have the luxury that other brands hold in regards to blind faith. Simply put, Evinrude knew the G2 had to be flawless or they would be crucified. Brp acknowledged the fact they would not receive the same blind eye to product issues as fans of other brands of outboards. Still I completely understand the emotion of feeling like a Guinea pig and there is no doubt with the track record of the G1 platform it does take the issue right out of the equation. The G1 plain and simple is a very safe engine to own and is an extremely good performer on all fronts. Truly I see and feel your dilemma between G1&G2. The reason its so hard is, Evinrude really did step up to the plate and came out with something truly better than its predecessor platform. Unfortunately nothings cheap these days and it requires a big leap of faith on the consumer to take a chance in their minds and wallet. I couldn't agree more that nothing sucks like having a new engine break and you can really beat one's self up over it if and when it happens. When you buy something under these circumstances I find people become super critical and it takes the fun right out of the hole thing. Fact is you will rig up that G1 with confidence and thats "priceless". Run Xd 100 oil, let her come up to temp and start to dial her in. No break in procedure is awesome and lets you get right down to business. Enjoy!

[2.5-21]

Dirk, Did P&G finish the cover yet? I would like to see another piece of art! What color did you go with?

Just curious none of the canadian Tuff chearleaders have chimed in on this post, They usually chime in to any post regarding a Tuff either to offer advise or to let everyone know their opinion on set up.

[DoktorC]

Dirk, Did P&G finish the cover yet? I would like to see another piece of art! What color did you go with?

Just curious none of the canadian Tuff chearleaders have chimed in on this post, They usually chime in to any post regarding a Tuff either to offer advise or to let everyone know their opinion on set up.

Hey..I'm a cheerleader...clearly he's got it under control and he has the boat in hand what else does Dirk need to know???

[Dirk Pitt]

can you get my order re directed?, Ill change to a G2

[Dirk Pitt]

Dirk, Did P&G finish the cover yet? I would like to see another piece of art! What color did you go with?

Just curious none of the canadian Tuff chearleaders have chimed in on this post, They usually chime in to any post regarding a Tuff either to offer advise or to let everyone know their opinion on set up.
Ive spoken to one of them, I dont want to mention his name, but hes a great guy and very very very informative, Ill post pics of the cover when P& G is done, yes his work is like art, color is charcole,should pop with the orange....

[Dirk Pitt]

Hey..I'm a cheerleader...clearly he's got it under control and he has the boat in hand what else does Dirk need to know???
i always need and take advise, from my brother flyers, guys like you are a wealth of information and its duly noted when you help me,:thumbsup: Im not of the same caliber as the all knowing Wernher Von Braun;)

[CharlieN]

can you get my order re directed?, Ill change to a G2
This will be cool.

[Mitchie]

i always need and take advise, from my brother flyers, guys like you are a wealth of information and its duly noted when you help me,:thumbsup: Im not of the same caliber as the all knowing Wernher Von Braun;)

Is the "Wernher Von Braun" some kind of passive aggressive insult towards Mark or something?

I am a cheerleader as well.. Mr. Weigl has get togethers all the time for his customers... And they seem to include a bunch of them. Typically that is an indication of trust, and appreciation... But who knows... Maybe they show up to call him on his "business prowess". If you have such an issue... Just get it out instead of the innuendo.

[RobF]

is it extra dollars to order the G2 in custom color?

whats the fuel capacity of that boat with the tank mod?

[CharlieN]

Is the "Wernher Von Braun" some kind of passive aggressive insult towards Mark or something?
Being on the outside of this but watching from the beginning, No, that is not a reference to Mark and it is not a negitive comment to anyone. It refers to a few others that have spent allot of research and energy doing development on their projects.

[Mitchie]

Being on the outside of this but watching from the beginning, No, that is not a reference to Mark and it is not a negitive comment to anyone. It refers to a few others that have spent allot of research and energy doing development on their projects.

Fair enough.

[kbirdmon]

does the etec hold up to the racing ?


I love the Power, I hung it on an 87 boat...The issues I've had were steering, incorrect set back on boat and a bad fuel cell... once I get the issues ironed out....I think it will be awesome. Love the motor for sure.

[Dirk Pitt]

Is the "Wernher Von Braun" some kind of passive aggressive insult towards Mark or something?

I am a cheerleader as well.. Mr. Weigl has get togethers all the time for his customers... And they seem to include a bunch of them. Typically that is an indication of trust, and appreciation... But who knows... Maybe they show up to call him on his "business prowess". If you have such an issue... Just get it out instead of the innuendo.

first of all you may know him as Mr. Weigl, I know him as Mr. Wiggle Waggle, when I decide to revel my experience with him you'll be the first to know Ill Pm you a copy so you can proof read it, I dont know what your relationship is with him,? do you own a boat, do you work for him, are you related to him? but I will tell you this, I am one of two people in this country that has had personal business dealings with him, by no means am I speaking for the other person but Ill say this again so there is no misunderstanding I HAVE ZERO RESPECT FOR MR> WIGGLE WAGGLE AS FAR AS HIS BUSINESS ETHICS AND BUSINESS PROWESS< HE MAY THROW A GREAT PARTY AT THE COTTAGE<, BUT THEY ALL PAID FOR IT, DIDNT THEY?

[Dirk Pitt]

I love the Power, I hung it on an 87 boat...The issues I've had were steering, incorrect set back on boat and a bad fuel cell... once I get the issues ironed out....I think it will be awesome. Love the motor for sure.

what were the steering issues? I plan on using a front mount Seastar,

[Dirk Pitt]

the P&G cover is done,the cover is felt lined, and totally waterproof, and has a 25 year life span, now to the next phase

[blkmtrfan]

Very Cool Boat Dirk!!!

Will be following this one for sure

[Dirk Pitt]

J
Very Cool Boat Dirk!!!

Will be following this one for sure
thank you I pretty excited especially trying something totally out of the box

[RobF]

the P&G cover is done, now to the next fase


next phase is precision decal placement :D

[Dirk Pitt]

next phase is precision decal placement :D

No! Guess who????:thumbsup:
The next phase is Raybo the boat has two rigging tubes that acommodated the 300x, so Rob with his mastery of paint and fiberglass, will fill and paint the well, to accomodate one rigging hose...

[Brabender]

Hate to say it but the trailer has to go...

[Brabender]

Boat is amazing

[Dirk Pitt]

Hate to say it but the trailer has to go...
yep i ordered a alluminum trailer today it would be sacrilegious to put it in acid...........although I never use a trailer the boat will be set up to be picked by my davits, but you always need one just in case, than Im having golden carpets lay in a snap in carpet to protect the carpet, Im nuts:eek: just think the next guy that buys this boat will have one awesome rig:confused::nonod:

[Dirk Pitt]

im thinking about props whats the recomendation? dont forget etec G1 6200 rpm 1.82 's

[dnelson964]

im thinking about props whats the recomendation? dont forget etec G1 6200 rpm 1.82 's

A new Turbo TXP-OT4 31 should be a good start.....

[Dirk Pitt]

A new Turbo TXP-OT4 31 should be a good start.....
den mac is a dealer cool Ill look into it thanks for the heads up, have you tried one?

[mragu]

Just saw a 27 Kryptonite on offshore only with twin 300x. Im in love. :D

[Dirk Pitt]

Just saw a 27 Kryptonite on offshore only with twin 300x. Im in love. :D
This one photo by Dirk Pitt

[Dirk Pitt]

Just saw a 27 Kryptonite on offshore only with twin 300x. Im in love. :D
hey this is about Tuff boats:p

[dnelson964]

den mac is a dealer cool Ill look into it thanks for the heads up, have you tried one?

Yes, should work good...they run stiff. ;).....oh but you better be able run high (above pad) engine height with it.

[Dirk Pitt]

I think you will need a much higher pitch then 31 1.82 is the issue did you buy the ho 250?
no G1 300hp

[half fast]

Are you going to keep the push button start system I installed ? How bout the custom side panel ? Will all the gauges work with the brp ? Super slick boat ya got from a great guy too. hf...

[baja200merk]

You will need more then a 32 with the 1.85 gear.

[Dirk Pitt]

Are you going to keep the push button start system I installed ? How bout the custom side panel ? Will all the gauges work with the brp ? Super slick boat ya got from a great guy too. hf...

you installed that system? I love it!!! great job.... yes everything should work, Im not changing the merc harness, Im going to marry the two plugs, so i dont have to distrub anything, if it can be done.....

[baja200merk]

It can be done. It's easy. I think cdi makes an adapter if not just buy a used Merc harnes and U can buy the correct MDS plug from evinrude along with 6 pins to make it work. If you want any system check gauges on the dash U will need to run the whole MDS Evinrude harness. U do not need to have system check if you don't want it.

[dnelson964]

You will need more then a 32 with the 1.85 gear.

Should just be a good 90+ all around prop with nice handling to let Dirk get used to running her. Use 8% slip to get an idea.

[baja200merk]

Slip is higher due to the huge carrier in the m2

[AZMIDLYF]

Carrier size/gear case size dictating the slip?

[AZMIDLYF]

Don't know if you've seen this thread yet...
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?309300-Tuff-21-with-250-H-O-G2

[2.5-21]

Don't know if you've seen this thread yet...
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?309300-Tuff-21-with-250-H-O-G2

Reads like a commercial!

[noli]

.


Luv the boat and now the boat cover too Dirk!

P&G does awesome work.




.

[Dirk Pitt]

It can be done. It's easy. I think cdi makes an adapter if not just buy a used Merc harnes and U can buy the correct MDS plug from evinrude along with 6 pins to make it work. If you want any system check gauges on the dash U will need to run the whole MDS Evinrude harness. U do not need to have system check if you don't want it.
perfect I did order thier smart guage but no more holes in the dash i was going to install it by the switch panel in the side gunnel

[Dirk Pitt]

.


Luv the boat and now the boat cover too Dirk!

P&G does awesome work.




.
Thank you it really is art work:thumbsup:

[TMc]

Todd Bucknell at Hydromotive Propellers makes some nice props and is a great guy to deal with.

http://hydromotive.com/

[Dirk Pitt]

Todd Bucknell at Hydromotive Propellers makes some nice props and is a great guy to deal with.

http://hydromotive.com/

yes I bought one for the kryponite worked great and reasonably priced compared to Herring and Merc, but thank you for the info

[Dirk Pitt]

Thank you it really is art work:thumbsup:
P& G Phil is going to become a supporting vendor so maybe we can get some huge discounts as members of scream and Fly

[Dirk Pitt]

ok I took he front and back seats out today because next week were going to start working on it its white and grey carbon viber material, i want to make sure it dosnt get ruined, but i have to admit the back seat must weigh at least 100lbs maybe more and the front seats are heavy too, this interor is probally good for 5mph without it so so heavy, thats why tuff jrs boat has a race hatch and different seats, the 28 had those winged looking seats and I lifted one much much lighter, but the seats were designed both style and colors by john Mcnight very tasteful but very heavy, the Superboat interor was at least 1/2 the weight

[noli]

Thanks Noli, but a that Tuff 28 "DEMO" will never be in my future.........
.



When you say "DEMO", are you saying that they have a DEMO boat for sale?

If so, what is the color of the hull?


.

[dnelson964]

ok I took he front and back seats out today because next week were going to start working on it its white and grey carbon viber material, i want to make sure it dosnt get ruined, but i have to admit the back seat must weigh at least 100lbs maybe more and the front seats are heavy too, this interor is probally good for 5mph without it so so heavy, thats why tuff jrs boat has a race hatch and different seats, the 28 had those winged looking seats and I lifted one much much lighter, but the seats were designed both style and colors by john Mcnight very tasteful but very heavy, the Superboat interor was at least 1/2 the weight

Good mention catch here ! It sounds like you found some shave weight areas if you want to reduce the total 'setback' and help the rougher water handling capability for our local waters ! Or are you going to first run it the way you bought it and then do changes with updates to follow ?

Superboat did a nice job to integrate the rear seat cushioning and save weight back in the day.

I am seeing you could make this thread into a multi-thousand word epic perhaps.

[Dirk Pitt]

now that I relieze how heavy the interior is i will probably test without the the back seat and passanger seat, as far as shaving weight i would have to have new light weight seats made which i wont do becauce John Mcknights choice of colors and the boats interior is exquisite,as far as set back it is 18" that must be that amount for a reason, there is no question John knows what he doing, and he did set the boat up not to run on its tippy toes,saying that I will try and squeeze every last mph out of it, and you never know one sunday morning hoser could roll up next to me, and that would be bad if he rolled by me with a his very fast Superboat with 1980's technology,( we know that works) as Roy Scheider said " were gonna need a bigger motor"

[Dirk Pitt]

.



When you say "DEMO", are you saying that they have a DEMO boat for sale?


If so, what is the color of the hull?


.
Noli go to Tuffboat.com I orginally was interested in his 28 Tuff DEMO he has for sale, but that didnt work out, its Dark Navy blue, it looks black in the picture in the add, its deceiving among other things,

[noli]

.


Oh yeah, looks like a nice boat.



.

[Dirk Pitt]

the ho etec is going to be tuff to beat from a dig would this be running in the top ten shoot out. 21 sob top ten that is

i have no idea what that is

[dnelson964]

now that I relieze how heavy the interior is i will probably test without the the back seat and passanger seat, as far as shaving weight i would have to have new light weight seats made which i wont do becauce John Mcknights choice of colors and the boats interior is exquisite,as far as set back it is 18" that must be that amount for a reason, there is no question John knows what he doing, and he did set the boat up not to run on its tippy toes,saying that I will try and squeeze every last mph out of it, and ""you never know one SUNDAY morning HOSER could roll up next to me, and that would be bad if he rolled by me with a his very fast Superboat with 1980's technology"",( we know that works) as Roy Scheider said " were gonna need a bigger motor"

Looks like the hook is set.....:D

(understand this is all in just good comrade fun...but always fun)

[Dirk Pitt]

Looks like the hook is set.....:D
no hoser and I have been dualing for years , all in good fun, I have to say Billy quite the gentleman, he always took it well when i gave it to him:rolleyes::eek::D

[vnemous]

Joe the only flaw if you can call it that is with all that warranty you will be hard pressed to do any upgrades to motor JMO
Fullers is both a Premiere Mercury and BRP dealer and BRP is a stickler for warranty work. They require engine reports for everything.

[dnelson964]

Joe the only flaw if you can call it that is with all that warranty you will be hard pressed to do any upgrades to motor JMO
Fullers is both a Premiere Mercury and BRP dealer and BRP is a stickler for warranty work. They require engine reports for everything.

Good to know Mike. Which motor would your shop recommend better for this Tuff 21' ? The G1 or G2 ??

[vnemous]

Good to know Mike. Which motor would your shop recommend better for this Tuff 21' ? The G1 or G2 ??

Wow Dr talk about putting someone on the carpet. George and Kev went out to the introduction of the G2 when it came out. They rode in multiple boats with the G2 and for George with his Merc background to be impressed says a lot. Unfortunately nothing was rigged on anything like a sob so all I can say is the Etec has lots of grunt and that 7 year warranty is to die for. Hows that for being a politician:D With that being said get something together so I can bring the super up there before the summers over.

[Dirk Pitt]

Joe the only flaw if you can call it that is with all that warranty you will be hard pressed to do any upgrades to motor JMO
Fullers is both a Premiere Mercury and BRP dealer and BRP is a stickler for warranty work. They require engine reports for everything.
I know i wouldnt touch it during the warrenty period, If I have the motor that long, if it becomes an issue as far as performance Ill just install the x Im buying, and sell the G1, to start modify that motor and lose the warrenty would defeat one of the reasons why Im buying one

[Dirk Pitt]

Wow Dr talk about putting someone on the carpet. George and Kev went out to the introduction of the G2 when it came out. They rode in multiple boats with the G2 and for George with his Merc background to be impressed says a lot. Unfortunately nothing was rigged on anything like a sob so all I can say is the Etec has lots of grunt and that 7 year warranty is to die for. Hows that for being a politician:D With that being said get something together so I can bring the super up there before the summers over.
think about 7years! even if the boat was slower than the XS who cares

[vnemous]

think about 7years! even if the boat was slower than the XS who cares
Yeah considering what it cost to replace, fuel inj, air inj or compressor on a XS out of warranty makes the argument right there.

[dnelson964]

Wow Dr talk about putting someone on the carpet. George and Kev went out to the introduction of the G2 when it came out. They rode in multiple boats with the G2 and for George with his Merc background to be impressed says a lot. Unfortunately nothing was rigged on anything like a sob so all I can say is the Etec has lots of grunt and that 7 year warranty is to die for. Hows that for being a politician:D With that being said get something together so I can bring the super up there before the summers over.


All and any new info is good Mike......Motor starting to sound like an experiment space ship looking to be the new 'Maytag'. I think they need to offer solid mounts on them is my first recommendation.

See what can be worked out for a get together in future.....

[baja200merk]

mike sounds like the xs has alot of issue. I heard the xs is not working well on any of the progressions thinks I will stick with the fish motor. joe the tuff will look awsome with a white motor . if it runs good numbers great on fuel why ever look back at black. think I would buy a used lower and trick it out
we mod the 3.0 sporty to bolt up to the g1. I've done a few for friends and my brother. The way I do it allows you to swap the case back to stock at the boat ramp if you wanted. The factory mid, lower, water tube, drive/shift shafts are all left stock. Warranty saved ;)

But I've been 105with a stock m2 no nose cone 1.85 gear and a worked 15x34et so I don't think the sporty is nessasary for this application.

[Dirk Pitt]

mike sounds like the xs has alot of issue. I heard the xs is not working well on any of the progressions think I will stick with the fish motor. joe the tuff will look awsome with a white motor . if it runs good numbers great on fuel why ever look back at black. think I would buy a used lower and trick it out

theres alot of them around here, its just not worth having change this, change that, modify this, modify that, (although some of the flyers have come up with some great ideas) ,all for a mere $200000,00

[Dirk Pitt]

Joe the only flaw if you can call it that is with all that warranty you will be hard pressed to do any upgrades to motor JMO
Fullers is both a Premiere Mercury and BRP dealer and BRP is a stickler for warranty work. They require engine reports for everything.
Mike
do you still have the same boat that the glass work was done, I forget did you close up the well? or did you add a notch?

[vnemous]

Mike
do you still have the same boat that the glass work was done, I forget did you close up the well? or did you add a notch?

No Joe I sold the challenger before I bought Ragus super. The well was still stock. Joey did the notch and fixed a crack in the hull. Wish I still had that boat. Would have made a great class 7 boat.

[Dirk Pitt]

No Joe I sold the challenger before I bought Ragus super. The well was still stock. Joey did the notch and fixed a crack in the hull. Wish I still had that boat. Would have made a great class 7 boat.
Ragus boat is a piece of jewery, I was involved in every step when mike had raybo actually rebuild that boat, raybo of course did a masterful job, and Rague spend a ton doing that project, you bought the right one....

[vnemous]

Ragus boat is a piece of jewery, I was involved in every step when mike had raybo actually rebuild that boat, raybo of course did a masterful job, and Rague spend a ton doing that project, you bought the right one....
Now if I could just get it over 105:D

[Dirk Pitt]

the way I see it is the boat stock is faster then the others the motor is far what 280 hp great on gas great combo for everyday use. if you grabbed a lower for $1000 and modded it you would have a great setup. I run a stock yamaha and have fun with great fuel economy merc's around hear don't want to run us anyway. the retirement rate is high on Long Island for merc the only guys that are left that will run are p22 and hoser. Yamaha makes 280 hp just like etec
I hope Merc is reading this, as far as hp joey who is running this show, tells me the G1 makes about 304 hp, he has been talking to BPR tech for some time, he cut his teeth with Evenrudes, but as you know he has been merc's poster child for over 40 years, there was a time when merc came out with a new race motor for the big guys, they went with joey, during that time I must have bought (all New) maybe 15 different variants of their products, and I must say Mercury was always very good to me, whenever I had an issue, but he was the one that pushed me over the edge to go white

[Dirk Pitt]

Now if I could just get it over 105:D

Mike I drove that boat many times it always felt light to me, I know first hand how much weight Raybo saved during the rebuild of your boat, its a beauty!!! I know your close stop:thumbsup: Im sure on a chrisp october morning, with the back seat out and a non labbed 4 blade et your north of 95mph your running a x right?

[vnemous]

Yes Joe and Im already north of 95. Have a trim pump issure that I will get to this week than its ready to roll.

[baja200merk]

A stock (key word ;) ) 3.4l g1 from brp makes 278hp at the prop. The mods required to take it over 300 (are easy) but require porting and a fuel map that no dealer in the world has nor could they install it even if they did have it. No dealer can change a map and a 300hp g1 etec does not exist. Period.

I forget who posted it years ago. But that old superboat on long island ran a 250ho 88mph on the rev limiter. A bigger prop would put it in the mid 90s but the owner didn't care.

Im expecting the Tuff to bust 90 with ease.

[vnemous]

So a 250HO makes close to the same hp as a 300? We havn't had a 300 on our dyno yet so I cant comment on what they make.

[baja200merk]

250ho and 300 Powerhead is identical, map is identical, heads are identical. Difference between them is the stickers on the cowl. I have 2011-2013 3.4 250ho and 300 in various stages of assembly and condition :eek: if you order a sleeve (I ordered one of the first 2012 3.4 sleeve advance ever made 2 yrs ago) they are identical as well.

For example A 225HO has 225ho decals and dh model number but the map version is 250 clear as day on the diag.

[Dirk Pitt]

yesterday Joey and I started getting the Tuff ready for raybo, removed the rigging hoses, wired tied everything out of the way, this is my guess, the construction of the boat increadable, but Im starting to think that in order to go north of 90 Im going to have to leave the back seat out, a race hatch would be cool, maybe next year, we will look for any excess weight, but I dont think there is any,the two front seats are beautiful but heavy, i had one of those wing seats Tuff uses in my hands, they are at least half the weight maybe more, i wonder who makes them?, so next stop Raybo boy you have to give it to Superboat a light bench seat, and front seats that weigh nothing, he really understood the weight concept

[2.5-21]

yesterday Joey and I started getting the Tuff ready for raybo, removed the rigging hoses, wired tied everything out of the way, this is my guess, the costruction of the boat increadable, but Im starting to think that in order to go north of 90 Im going to have to leave the back seat out, a race hatch would be cool, maybe next year, we will look for any excess weight, but I dont think there is any,the two front seats are beautiful but heavy, i had one of those wing seats Tuff uses in my hands, they are at least half the weight maybe more, i wonder who makes them?, so next stop Raybo boy you have to give it to Superboat a light bench seat, and front seats that weigh nothing, he really understood the weight concept

Are you going to weigh the boat?

[RBT]

Tuff, makes the seats. I don't think your going to have any trouble with 90.

[CharlieN]

One way to address the front seats is to pull the covers and have a splash pulled of the seat structure but build this with materials more conducive to weight savings. Much of the time you will find some thick chopper gun or other crap layups that can easily be built to a third of the weight or less.
This way you can keep the niceness of what you have with minimal weight.

This goes for the rear seating as well, no need for a rear seat to weigh more than 15 to 20 pounds.

[Dirk Pitt]

Tuff, makes the seats. I don't think your going to have any trouble with 90.
well getting seats from him, id have a better chance of getting hit by lighting.............. but thank you for the info

[joneill]

I hope Merc is reading this, as far as hp joey who is running this show, tells me the G1 makes about 304 hp, he has been talking to BPR tech for some time, he cut his teeth with Evenrudes, but as you know he has been merc's poster child for over 40 years, there was a time when merc came out with a new race motor for the big guys, they went with joey, during that time I must have bought (all New) maybe 15 different variants of their products, and I must say Mercury was always very good to me, whenever I had an issue, but he was the one that pushed me over the edge to go white Why would Mercury's poster child be pushing BRP's now instead of Mercury? This seems strange to me.
Beautiful boat by the way,

[tres]

GSBayturkey run 2011. pic,s of my 21 super seats. i,ve had them for 4 years i think.324873i,m sure Tuff,s are carbon fiber light..and maybe a little wider..but.. i,m happy with them!

[Davidlake]

Why are already loosing weight? Seems that a "good' motor would be first? A VERY up hill battle with the BRP... Way too much variables with the direction you are going( BRP). I know that Merc. has its issues, but what is there other than a Sportmaster? Is the tail wagging the dog? I would differ to the guy that rigged the boat! Every body has the highest esteem for him. JMO I would love to see another MFR. step up with a total package , but it is not now!

[Dirk Pitt]

Why would Mercury's poster child be pushing BRP's now instead of Mercury? This seems strange to me.
Beautiful boat by the way,
because it makes sense, and like me were trying to prove a point that make there might be a legitimite alternitive to black, and his roots as a young mechanic was with evenrude

[Dirk Pitt]

Why are already loosing weight? Seems that a "good' motor would be first? A VERY up hill battle with the BRP... Way too much variables with the direction you are going( BRP). I know that Merc. has its issues, but what is there other than a Sportmaster? Is the tail wagging the dog? I would differ to the guy that rigged the boat! Every body has the highest esteem for him. JMO I would love to see another MFR. step up with a total package , but it is not now!
i agree with everything your saying, except the rigger, if anyone can make this happen he can, at the end of the day its a challange, its thinking out of the box, and if all else fails Ill have 5 years of trouble free boating,how bad can that be......it will never be the fasted tuff, the ones that are going in the 100's are very specially boats, this boat is a std layup, example Tuff's jr's blue Tuff with the G2, is carbon viber,infused, carbon viber race hatch, no back seat, lightweight front seats, and Im sure when daddy laid up that boat he pulled every trick out of the book for his son, things that the regular buyer would only get if he really opened his wallet

[Dirk Pitt]

Why are already loosing weight? Seems that a "good' motor would be first? A VERY up hill battle with the BRP... Way too much variables with the direction you are going( BRP). I know that Merc. has its issues, but what is there other than a Sportmaster? Is the tail wagging the dog? I would differ to the guy that rigged the boat! Every body has the highest esteem for him. JMO I would love to see another MFR. step up with a total package , but it is not now!
my plan is the wiring harness will be made to accomidate a merc also, so a quick motor change would be possible,if the BPR is so bad than it goes, I plan on buying a x, in the event this is a total failure.
As far as weight theres really nothing I can do except leave the back seat out during testing,it really weighs a lot, Im going to say this theres nothing like a 21 Superboat, not even a TUFF, yes its beautiful, yes the workmanship is excellent, yes he uses the best materials, bla bla bla,
but unless you have close to 100 G's (thats duplicating a real fast one like the blue one) you just cant beat a 21 Superboat and if you want to know how I come up with that number just ask

[dnelson964]

Did someone say......http://i62.tinypic.com/63rlgm.jpg

I think that's a good goal...

[Dirk Pitt]

I like thinking outside the box but I would feel more comfortable dealing with a dealer. warrenty is great fuel economy makes a great package . speed will come the big three are not far off from each other . Yamaha has ran hard for many years now and proved they can run hard at the top
who says Im not dealing with a dealer?

[Dirk Pitt]

Did someone say......http://i62.tinypic.com/63rlgm.jpg

I think that's a good goal...
i was thinking this lol:eek::D

[CharlieN]

i was thinking this lol:eek::D
I like your thinking.

[dnelson964]

i was thinking this lol:eek::D

I hear ya, would be real nice.......but then "as Roy Scheider said " were gonna need a bigger motor". :eek:

Easier to just try something else like, Oh.....perfecting wheelie's ? :D
http://i62.tinypic.com/209svwl.jpg

[RBT]

The first tuff, is also one if if not the heaviest tuff with a 300x runs over 100 and has since it was built, the 106 mph boat doesn't have a race hatch. He adds weight
to get it to speed, to offset the driver weight.

[progression22]

i was thinking this lol:eek::D
Who makes that speedo?

[evinrudejohnson]

Wow can't wait to see this out there . love the color !

[Greg G]

The first tuff, is also one if if not the heaviest tuff with a 300x runs over 100 and has since it was built, the 106 mph boat doesn't have a race hatch. He adds weight
to get it to speed, to offset the driver weight.

I like facts, which you are always supplying RBT. When you mention that the northern Tuff 21 with the stock 300XS has run 106mph without a race hatch, that's darn impressive.

There is a lot of talk about weight on this thread but until the Long Island Tuff 21 goes onto the scale for a true digital weight reading it's just talk with no start point. I have a 2500lb digital scale I use but it's up in Syracuse at the moment. Very handy device and accurate as hell. I'd be really surprised for example if the rear bench seat on the Long Island Tuff weighs even 105lbs. It's only 60" long I suspect. That bench you could just throw on any bathroom scale to see. Then you would know if removing 100lbs gains 1mph in top speed as has been mentioned on this site several times over the years. Cool project overall.

[Greg G]

There is a shop in the Southwest that specializes in infusion shells and high end interiors. They do a fair number of copters to the high net worth folks. They could tell you exactly what the rear bench could be dropped down to and would re-use the McKnight upholstery which is very tasteful.

[dnelson964]

21' Superboat had sectioned seat panels in ..... best way to keep it light ! JC had some very good ideas that bear out still today.

[RobF]

Who makes that speedo?


Livorsi data tach, real nice piece if you can find one

[RobF]

21 super the back seat is obviously part of the liner, so just 2 cushions sitting on them. Originally plywood now you can make it with PVC board. The front bucket shells cant be more than 20lbs each
Balsa care in the majority of the floor with plywood where the seats mount.

Im thinking the extra weight of the seats in the Tuff offset the weight savings from no inner liner. Hopefully joe will weight the boat and knowing him he will not stop messing with the boat trying to extract every MPH he can out of it

[CharlieN]

Talk of weights has me thinking about bringing a set of scales to the Romp next summer.
I could set up at the launch so everyone can run their trailer on them loaded then empty. This can give the weights at 3 points then with a bit of math everyone can see what their boat is side to side and fore aft. The fuel load can be worked out mathematically.

[dnelson964]

21 super the back seat is obviously part of the liner, so just 2 cushions sitting on them. Originally plywood now you can make it with PVC board. The front bucket shells cant be more than 20lbs each
Balsa care in the majority of the floor with plywood where the seats mount.

Im thinking the extra weight of the seats in the Tuff offset the weight savings from no inner liner. Hopefully joe will weight the boat and knowing him he will not stop messing with the boat trying to extract every MPH he can out of it

Rob he's coming to you already...I say you just do the conversion and be done with it. :thumbsup:

[mikeylarge]

I'm sure this boat will be nothing short of a masterpiece

[AlexKotovmn]

That is my buddies trailer. He just bought a new tuff trailer. Steal at 800. That is at least a 1000 trailer all day long

[Jimboat]

That bench you could just throw on any bathroom scale to see. Then you would know if removing 100lbs gains 1mph in top speed as has been mentioned on this site several times over the years.
Greg - reduction of 100lbs on this hull design should result in +1mph, based on analysis, anyway.

p.s. - Tuff boats are masterpieces of construction!

[Dirk Pitt]

That is my buddies trailer. He just bought a new tuff trailer. Steal at 800. That is at least a 1000 trailer all day long
you think the trailer under my boat is $1000.00? the trailer is made by Pheniox Trailers try about $7000.00 Id love to see a picture of it,Phoenix Trailers.. Boat trailer manufacturer in Northern Michigan (East Jordan) Quality, tough, attractive and safe! (http://www.phoenixtrail.com/)

[Dirk Pitt]

I misunderstood thought you used joey that owned eastcoast marine .

joeys running the show as always:thumbsup: in my opinion hes the best,

[Dirk Pitt]

The first tuff, is also one if if not the heaviest tuff with a 300x runs over 100 and has since it was built, the 106 mph boat doesn't have a race hatch. He adds weight
to get it to speed, to offset the driver weight.
Rob what do you mean he adds weight? now im really confused

[T2x]

Good Luck with the new boat...........Try twin G2's :)

[Dirk Pitt]

Good Luck with the new boat...........Try twin G2's :)
did you and Linder invent those, they kinda look like something you would dream up:D:thumbsup::smiletest: but thanks Rich hope all is well

[RobF]

Good Luck with the new boat...........Try twin G2's :)


guy is selling a 1977 Challenger original owner boat- wonder where it lies in the Challenger blood line. Brown boat in Wisconsin

[Dirk Pitt]

guy is selling a 1977 Challenger original owner boat- wonder where it lies in the Challenger blood line. Brown boat in Wisconsin
that was the boat Linder and Luhrs were in when they invented h2o, without them were would we be, now i hope every body knows Im just kidding, without those 2 guys, we would not be here today....

[Dirk Pitt]

Who makes that speedo?
they only are for boats that go over 100, it wont work in yours:p just kidding joe, I want to remind everyone you have the best trophy on the Great south bay, the one I gave you "Fastest SOB" and Joey East Coast got "The Biggest Chicken" award!!!

we should do it again ill make it happen, if there is any interest, we can give out some trophies have a little awards lunch and make it like a roast....

[vnemous]

Just weighed the back seat of my superboat 28.2 lbs FYI

[DoktorC]

just did mine 85 pounds

Who the hell gets in the back with you??? Lol.

Do you have a race hatch on this one?

[DoktorC]

just did mine 85 pounds

Who the hell gets in the back with you??? Lol.

Do you have a race hatch on this one?

[mikeylarge]

yes I do buddy lol
Not to pick an argument on dirks thread but please explain how xs are not running well on progressions? I can speak for 2 22 progressions with 300xs that have run north of 90... Doesnt seem bad to me

[Dirk Pitt]

Not to pick an argument on dirks thread but please explain how xs are not running well on progressions? I can speak for 2 22 progressions with 300xs that have run north of 90... Doesnt seem bad to me
mickey there great motors they do the job, as we can see from what out there allready, you cant take it away from them, but just a question? is that a good number for a 22 progression? if I remember correctly p2'2s with a x was faster, but joe can answer that, if anybody spend the time in set up he did, that boat was a rocket..

[RBT]

He adds weight to the passenger side, as far right as possible to help the boat fly level.

[dnelson964]

Just weighed the back seat of my superboat 28.2 lbs FYI

Mr. 'potato chip'.....:D .... I rest my case.

Ok maybe I'm getting a little 'old'.....and weak...."Ughh"....Maybe it's the two blue stripes down the center... but my original still back seat weighs 90 lbs. !!......now I gotta go ly down.

[RobF]

Mr. 'potato chip'.....:D .... I rest my case.

Ok maybe I'm getting a little 'old'.....and weak...."Ughh"....Maybe it's the two blue stripes down the center... but my original still back seat weighs 90 lbs. !!......now I gotta go ly down.

2 plain flat cushions versus a standalone seat.
look at the weight of the progression back seat at 85lbs.

[Greg G]

Greg - reduction of 100lbs on this hull design should result in +1mph, based on analysis, anyway.

Thanks Jim I know you have the math to back it up. Hope you are well.

[progression22]

they only are for boats that go over 100, it wont work in yours:p just kidding joe, I want to remind everyone you have the best trophy on the Great south bay, the one I gave you "Fastest SOB" and Joey East Coast got "The Biggest Chicken" award!!!

we should do it again ill make it happen, if there is any interest, we can give out some trophies have a little awards lunch and make it like a roast....

I'm down and the boat is ready also. That will end alot of non sense computer racing claiming they are the fastest. Dirk the boat looks beautiful and I hope it a contender for the run. Yeah its funny everyone claims over 100 and they get beat by a 94 mph progression with me behind the wheel

[progression22]

Not to pick an argument on dirks thread but please explain how xs are not running well on progressions? I can speak for 2 22 progressions with 300xs that have run north of 90... Doesnt seem bad to me

Hahahaha north of 90 on ur truck

[Greg G]

There is a lot of talk about weight on this thread but until the Long Island Tuff 21 goes onto the scale for a true digital weight reading it's just talk with no start point. I'd be really surprised for example if the rear bench seat on the Long Island Tuff weighs even 105lbs. It's only 60" long I suspect.


my original still back seat weighs 90 lbs. !!......now I gotta go ly down.


look at the weight of the progression back seat at 85lbs.

Interesting. 90 lbs for a Challenger's rear bench. 85 lbs for a Progression's rear bench. With those two data points I'd now be really surprised if a 2015 Tuff's rear bench weighs 105lbs. A Progression has a 7'8" beam and the Tuff's is 7'7" so I'm going to say the edge to edge width of the two rear benches are identical at 5'. 15lbs heavier than a P22 bench?

[Superbender]

I think Mercury is making the best product they have in years,I will refrain from comments on on Joey from Ecm as I having nothing nice to say,nope not one good thing.joe best of luck with your project can't wait to see you out there again.

[Dirk Pitt]

I think Mercury is making the best product they have in years,I will refrain from comments on on Joey from Ecm as I having nothing nice to say,nope not one good thing.joe best of luck with your project can't wait to see you out there again.
Bender let me start by saying I have mad respect for you,:thumbsup: and your work, no one on this board knows Joey better than me, he has been a friend, and has worked on every boat I have ever owned,over a 35 year span, no one can ever disput his talent, no doubt over the years I have ( to put it mildly) debated his billing practices, but is he any diffrerent than most people in this industry?, the one main difference is, when he's finished I have never heard anyone say anything other than wow, look at his work, most of the setup paramiters used today are standards and technique's he developed, example a 15" mid.on a 300x, to my knowlage ,no one ever saw one until it came out of his shop,over the years either Peter from skater, or Mercury Marine,( all of them) they refered to him on a conceptual level, his accomplishments in the offshore racing arena can only be discribed as brilliant on the rigging side, and behind the throttles of some of the most famous raceboats ever, I stopped counting after 12 world championships,I hope you respect my rebutale, because its pruely ment as an enlightenment of one mans tallent, who truly will go down is the history of offshore racing in the top 2, his accomplishments are truly amazing, and yes I am a fan of both you and him:D

[mikeylarge]

mickey there great motors they do the job, as we can see from what out there allready, you cant take it away from them, but just a question? is that a good number for a 22 progression? if I remember correctly p2'2s with a x was faster, but joe can answer that, if anybody spend the time in set up he did, that boat was a rocket..
Everything comes in perception. I cant think of one progression with a 300xs where the owner spent time dialing in the boat with a full concern on that big number. As far as reliability you can buy any motor and have an issue with it. There are obviously some xs that where nothing but problems, and there are plenty that have run trouble free. As far as the weight of the backseat i dont think you can even consider superboats design into consideration because you have to add the weight of the liner into the boat itself. 2 complete different interior designs

[Dirk Pitt]

Everything comes in perception. I cant think of one progression with a 300xs where the owner spent time dialing in the boat with a full concern on that big number. As far as reliability you can buy any motor and have an issue with it. There are obviously some xs that where nothing but problems, and there are plenty that have run trouble free. As far as the weight of the backseat i dont think you can even consider superboats design into consideration because you have to add the weight of the liner into the boat itself. 2 complete different interior designs
Micky, your right about the liner, but thats one of the things I dont like about Tuff, rug, yes it works for them fresh water, but I always like the ability to scrub the floor;) most people wont be totally honest with a real evaluation of what they bought because lets face it they made a decision to buy that product (motor), yes the 300xz is fine, but Im sure if you took an independent poll, on what you would do to make it better, the list would be pretty long, but also it would apply to any motor we hang

[mikeylarge]

Micky, your right about the liner, but thats one of the things I dont like about Tuff, rug, yes it works for them fresh water, but I always like the ability to scrub the floor;) most people wont be totally honest with a real evaluation of what they bought because lets face it they made a decision to buy that product (motor), yes the 300xz is fine, but Im sure if you took an independent poll, on what you would do to make it better, the list would be pretty long, but also it would apply to any motor we hang
That rug issue is easily fixed, just a little time and money spent with Raybo ��

[progression22]

how many power heads did it take for the 2 22s to get there ????? ? I have ran 90 for years with the same power plant yamaha hpdi 300 . the point was what power plant to buy I for one like merc but don't trust it to get me home every night. I think joe like most die hard merc guys want the reliability that's why there looking else were . I hope he has the same out come I had because I would never go back . this was not to piss people off its to show there is other chooses out there. Mercury is not as great as it used to be if it was they would have a 5 or 6 year bumper to bumper like the others.

From what I am hearing the 2 progressions with the xs's almost bankrupt mercury from the amount of powerheads they went through under warranty

[mikeylarge]

From what I am hearing the 2 progressions with the xs's almost bankrupt mercury from the amount of powerheads they went through under warranty
My xs is still completely original.....

[Dirk Pitt]

Good to see there's one Honest Merc guy in the bunch. I just made one phone call and got all the truth. Again it was about right choose on power not a pissing match . But would be nice to see guys post the truth not bs . This site is to help people and save money on a hobby we love . Not scam or screw each other joe thinking outside the black box isnt a bad thing with a great warranty. Hope it works great for you p22 thanks.
its just painting with a different color crayon:iagree:

[Dirk Pitt]

Ill weigh the front seats and back bench today, I just have to go to the gym first, workout, and take a shot of test,

[progression22]

My xs is still completely original.....

That's another mark on ur credibility must be like ur speedo.

[mikeylarge]

That's another mark on ur credibility must be like ur speedo.
Please explain, I would enjoy hearing the history of my motor? Im not saying Dirk made the wrong choice with his motor option. I directed my original question to one person, who irritates me very much, and i still have not recieved a valid response from that person.

[powerabout]

I would be struggling to remember in the 80's any multiple blown powerheads under w/tee from the white or black guys and I was a dealer for both
you just didnt need w/tee back then as nothing went wrong
( OK the first v6 Mercs were made from zinc..swapped plenty of those blocks for years)

[Dirk Pitt]

Please explain, I would enjoy hearing the history of my motor? Im not saying Dirk made the wrong choice with his motor option. I directed my original question to one person, who irritates me very much, and i still have not recieved a valid response from that person.
what am i missing?, you mean there are people on this board that are irratating? no Joe!

[mikeylarge]

what am i missing?, you mean there are people on this board that are irratating? no Joe!
P22 doesnt bother me to be honest, he is just straight forward in your face, which is respectable

[progression22]

So if ur motor is original post the warranty history. Kevin built another hull for the 2nd guy cause they throught something was wrong with the boat and he was like up to what 7 powerheads

[RobF]

are we implying that a progression is somehow cursed never to have a trouble free 300Xs on it? lolol

thats amazing! The boat rejects it , doesnt agree with it- like a bad piece of fish lol

[progression22]

what am i missing?, you mean there are people on this board that are irratating? no Joe!

I call bull**** when I see it. Hey I'm honest, if u didn't hear it out of my mouth I didn't say it

[mikeylarge]

So if ur motor is original post the warranty history. Kevin built another hull for the 2nd guy cause they throught something was wrong with the boat and he was like up to what 7 powerheads
I font have the time to look it up, i will give my serial number to anyone who wants to waiste their own time looking it up. You will find 1 claim for the shift switch in june of 2014

[matty b]

Back to the topic of this thread.... beautiful boat! But like Kevin said, a sporty might not be a bad idea. I love my D.I., but have been plagued with case failures. And the availability of a good gear is a big pain. Im turning a 15x34 merc cleaver and still can't keep it off the limiter. This is the lightning case, not sure how it compares to the newer cases kevin was talking about.

[RobF]

just talked to a guy who knows a guy that said they brought in an old priest and a young priest and performed an exorcism on a P22 to rid it of its inability to have a 300Xs bolted on it, rumor is the boat is going 112mph
Also claiming they go out with 30 gallons of gas and come back with 31 but Im finding that part hard to believe

[goneby]

So if ur motor is original post the warranty history. Kevin built another hull for the 2nd guy cause they throught something was wrong with the boat and he was like up to what 7 powerheads
Where do you even come up with this false information,,guess you just like to hear yourself talk,I call BS. This is a joke.

[ghost28]

Where do you even come up with this false information,,guess you just like to hear yourself talk,I call BS. This is a joke.

P22 THINKS he knows everything...Its amazing how rumors spread about stuff and one blown powerhead turns into almost putting mercury out of business...LMAO...Just shows his mentality is that of a Middle schooler lost in his own reality....There are PLENTy of Great running 300xs motors out there with next to ZERO warranty history on them....I Personally have rigged a ****load of brand new ones that have combined logged thousands of trouble free hours aside from the minor hiccup of a shift switch or a TPS gone bad here or there....NO Motor is perfect on these types of boats...We all beat the daylights out of them and some expect them to be indestructable....Unfortunetly they are not but they do a damn good job trying...

[goneby]

Anyway I thought this thread was about a Tuff boat with a white motor,good luck with your set up,let's get back on point

[progression22]

So progression built you a second boat cause u only blew up 2 motors. I call bull**** on that!!! George watch urself cause with ur history I don't think u want me to get started on u.

[goneby]

So progression built you a second boat cause u only blew up 2 motors. I call bull**** on that!!! George watch urself cause with ur history I don't think u want me to get started on u.
Your ignorance isn't worth my time,enjoy your shallow life you should be ashamed of yourself with the crap you start,you still don't have facts but keep talking sh**.Ignorance is bliss with you.

[ghost28]

So progression built you a second boat cause u only blew up 2 motors. I call bull**** on that!!! George watch urself cause with ur history I don't think u want me to getstarted on u.

Go F U K yourself joe....see thing is I have no history....so you can play your high school games all you want and try to make people wonder....it wont affect me one bit....you keep acting like a Jerk Off and people will finally realize the common denominator around your drama is YOU....

[ghost28]

This is great here comes the south shore cheerleader

Greg if that was aimed at me you can go to the same place as p22 cause your another know it all that dont know **** and thrives off of high school drama....

[progression22]

This is great here comes the south shore cheerleader

Yes one person lies the rest swear by it. Like I didn't go to progression last December with 19k in cash to buy one of ur old hulls. I can't believe you actually believe the lies u tell urself. I'm straight foward but one thing I'm not is a liar.

[progression22]

Greg if that was aimed at me you can go to the same place as p22 cause your another know it all that dont know **** and thrives off of high school drama....

Yes ghost ur credibility is the same as crackhead on the corner. It's so funny ur so good at rigging boats but can't hold a job in the industry

[ghost28]

Really?? I worked in one shop k&k for 13 years which i left on my own to pursue another avenue of the marine business due to an injury sustained by getting hit by a car.....Then i worked for travelers ins for 2 years which i then decided i didnt like and went back to work turning wrenches at accurate marine where i stayed for 5 years until i went out on my own....i have also done rigging work for a couple of well known boat builders on long island of which some i still do work for....I would also bet the farm that ANY of my previous employers in the business would hire me back in a heartbeat if I asked... But again you like shooting off your mouth on things you know nothing about..anyone that really knows me and my work would stand behind me 100%...as amatter of fact the guy who started this post has seen my work and has used me to do work for him and has always been very happy...

[goneby]

Yes one person lies the rest swear by it. Like I didn't go to progression last December with 19k in cash to buy one of ur old hulls. I can't believe you actually believe the lies u tell urself. I'm straight foward but one thing I'm not is a liar.
Once again like every thread you get involved in,goes to sh**!And you are the common denominator when it comes to BS!! I am done with you thanks for the fun.Can we please get back on point,which was the Tuff boat.

[CAPTCRUNCH]

So if ur motor is original post the warranty history. Kevin built another hull for the 2nd guy cause they throught something was wrong with the boat and he was like up to what 7 powerheads

So the hull was causing the engines to fail? I cant even imagine someone being stupid enough to think this is possible. maybe you can explain your thought process on this? came out of the same mold but is no good... blows engines? :cool:

[progression22]

That's why in 2010 I almost bought ur first one then kevin sold it out from under me. Funny 2 years later I got subpoenaed to go to court as the other potential buyer when progression got stiffed on the loan. That was the time I saw ur second boat in the shop. Now fast foward to December 2014 the weekend before xmas. I went to progression with 19k cash in hand to buy ur 2nd boat. He wanted 27k for ur hull with no steering. I put 19k in his hand then he refused. He also said that night he had ur 1st boat in storage also to buy. So u can call me anything u want but not a liar. Sorry u aren't shoving that bull crap down my throat