the state of my mate

[jmdank]

started removing in september. I got it this far and then left it alone till last month.:eek:

[jmdank]

pic 2

[jmdank]

I was gonna start on the transom removal today but it is raining. so i have it in the garage and I am gutting wires gauges......everything. gonna replace it all.

[sho305]

Jeez...poor Checkmate keeps getting bad press here in the transom rot department:) Make sure you check the other Checkmate/Baja threads here for the excellent info.

Did yours have a center stringer? How close to the transom did it go? Just wondering about those.

[jmdank]

My transom is not rotton, just very wet. I was going to just replace the floor and stringers. Then I unbolted my jack plate and found wet wood in the bolt holes. I have to tell ya mr. mac really inspierd me to go at that transom. as for your questions, the stringers were a box frame with bulkheads until the last 4 or 5 feet were i turned into a single stringer. I took out the floor and stringers all the way to the transom where they were attached to the transom with 5200 or a thickend resin. By the way all the foam in the floor and bow was wet.

[sho305]

I think my '73 is like that, but it has a little cutout in the floor center at the transom for a bilge pump. So I know the center stringer does not go all the way back. Seems like it should though, so I am wondering if I should change that.

Mine is getting so it will move if you stand on the motor. I am sure the plate under the clamps was never sealed.:rolleyes: Put a new speedo pickup on one day and water dripped out. Guy said when he bought it about 15+ years ago they had just put a bigger motor on and then took it back off due to handling problems. That would have been going from a 150 inline to a 200 V6, go figure. So the guy had sold it to get a bigger boat than this 17'. Amazing that it is still in one piece really.

[jmdank]

Mine was hardly in one piece. After I took the carpet out I saw that the stingers were lifted from the hull. That wet foam freezing can sure cause some damage!! The transom is wet because when the previous owner put the jackplate on he did not seal the holes correct. He put silicone on the jackplate facing the transom but nothing on the bolt itself or the outside of the bolt head that was tightend onto the jackplate. Oh well, just an opportunity to build it better!!! Once the floor is done it is getting new paint, hardware, gauges, wire, you name it. Kind of a labor of love.
Jason

[sho305]

Mine has no locker and when I called Checkmate they said it should have no foam either from 1973. My floor is getting weak at the very back by the gas tank. It feels pretty solid yet otherwise, but I know the wood is shot. I had it airborne a couple of times at 50+ and I thought I should stop that.:eek: Think I have a pic here I modified and changed the brown to white to see if I liked it.

[jmdank]

Funny!!! I just changed one of my pictures to all white to see if I would like it. I did not save, cause it dident turn out too good. I am gonna go with a all white paint job, with a blue contrast color, just not the way it was painted at the factory. They forcast is rain for midland friday and sat. But hopefully the forcast will be wrong for one of those days so I can get into cuttin out that transom. I would take a look at those stringers before ya hit to many more waves at 50mph. allthough the core in my boat was SOLID! they sure due lay up the hull very good at checkmate!!

[bulldogdaddy]

looks just like what i'm going through!and sho has already been there:D

[jmdank]

BDD....watcha using for materials (epoxy,or resin, type of glass, type of wood?)

[175checkmate]

Been there done that, still not done, good luck to ya

[sho305]

My hull also does not have a core. It is stout. It will be a little more weight, but less to mess with upon repair. I can smack it on the sides and bottom and it is like a rock. Must be pretty thick glass.

Look down this forum a ways and find my post "Bayliner transom." I took pics of the repair. It had a narrow transom so it was a bit easier, but I would not cut the skin again. I would cut out the well for access next time. I will seperate the hull on the checkmate. I would like to add relief like yours to the transom some how. Have not figured that out yet. Don't want a foot plus of jackplate on it really. Here is transom now in original flake color.

Note you can see the first strake behind the speedo pickup. It has been recommended I enlarge these strakes to make a pad surface and leave a little vee between.

[Michael Martin]

Hope it goes well for ya. I've been grinding all morning. Trying to get all the old glass, mat & rotten wood gone.

So good luck!!

Mike

[jmdank]

SHO,
I am cuttin out the splash well in mine, just to get rid of it, I am not going to tie the knees into it though. I want to be able to split the boat when it gets painted, so the knees are gonna come all the way up to the top of the transom but are not gonna get tied in to the top. Not to sure about adding a pad yet. Just got the raka epoxy in today. Hope the weather stays o.k. for the weekend!

[B.Mac]

Lookin' good......glad to see another Starflite saved!
Ya better look that transom over real good because it's very deceptive.....looks OK 'till ya start flyin' it......it's a pain but better 'ta get her done now then have 'ta go back in later :eek:

Yep .....that was my conclusion on the stringer seperation also as I had the same thing......frozen foam.....blew the stringers right off the hull when it thawed.....I never knew it.......but now I know anytime you buy a boat from anyplace it gets cold......and the boats got foam in it.......ya better look out!!!!
I drove all the way to Minnesota from Florida to get my Starflite because it was cosmetically in good shape.....little did I know what lurked below the floor :eek:

Get after it!!! Take your time....don't burn yourself out. It's worth it in the long run 'ta know what's under 'yer hiney at 70 MPH+
B.MAC:D

[Reese]

did you say you were going to cut out the splashwell...are you planning on closing off the back end? What's the length of your boat?

[jmdank]

the boat is 21' 2"long... yup gonna cut out the splash well and get rid of the lip like b.mac did (that includes closing it off). I was gonna start to cut out the transom tonight but it started raining!!!!!! I don't wanna cut it out in the garage because of all that dust it makes. Hopefuly it wont rain all weekend so I can get the show on the road!!

Hey b.mac can I pm ya if I have any questions down the road??
Thanks,
Jason

[B.Mac]

Better off posting as much as you like, so somebody else has a reference or can correct me if I'm wrong. There's alot more knowledgable fellas around here then me.......I'll answer everything I can......usually daily. I do know my way around the inside of that hull if nothing else :eek: (Same year too!!!)
Ask away!!!!
B.MAC:D

[jmdank]

thanks B.MAC
Just figured you might be a good one to ask because you have a identical transom fresh in your mind.:D

[sho305]

jmdank, duh! you have a point there about being able to split the hull later...hmmm. Maybe I will attach it with some angles and screws some how, though screws pull out. Maybe glass pieces hanging and bolt through them. I want to connect it somehow. I'll make it look like B Mac's on the outside, and pretty close on the inside. Not likely I'll have that much motor on this 17' though...I guess you never know:) Considering a hatch door there too so I can get in there easier.

I thought about running the knees out the back and making a setback into it...but that sounds hard to make look nice.

[Forkin' Crazy]

Cool pic, Bmac!

Sho, what kind of Cmate do you have? I have to get back on mine (rotten floor). Don't think (hoping) the transom is rotten, though.

Anyone know where to get the aluminum tubes that go down the side? Mine look as if they were used for a diving board.:(

[Tom D.]

Forkin,
I think those tubes are stainless. It sholdn't be to hard to tweak them back into reasonable shape. Worth a try probably hell of alot cheaper too.

Tom

[jmdank]

the only place I know that you can get that rail from, is directly from checkmate. I took mine off I am gonna fill the holes before I paint it.

[sho305]

Mine look just like canopy tubes...guess I'll have to see if they are SS or not, they look like alum canopy tubes so I assumed they were. Mine are missing some screws but pretty good aside from some scratches from hooks on ropes. I might paint them.

Mine is a TRV-17 BR. I guess it is close to a Ski-Mate, but seems to have strakes all the way back and most skis do not. Seems that newer Mates have a squared window instead of the wrap style of my '73. I'd like to come up with some kind of gauge pod that looks good too. Dash is too low to see good while wot.

I know also that water got in the well drains in mine. I fixed them but too late when I got it. Sure is a nice size, and lots of room inside. Once had a heavy guy in the bow, and when you turned it would lay over on the side more. I would guess most vees do that.

[Forkin' Crazy]

They are aluminum. It would take me way too long to straighten them. My friend can get the tubing, but not that long. I want mine to look stock as possible. Reclearing the old gel.. Checkmate it is.....might be cheaper to go get them instead of shipping charges..:eek: I also need some windshield parts.....

Sorry Jason, didn't mean to highjack your thread. Were yours held on by SS screws and plasitc nuts?

:cool:

[jmdank]

no problem forkin'
yup stainless and plastic (except for the stainless screws that were replaced by the previous owner by regular rusty steel) so did ya find any other source for the rails yet???

More pics to come soon

[jmdank]

just got the digital camra up and runnin.. started to cut last weekend... gonna rip into it more startin friday

[B.Mac]

Wow......deja vu.......
B.MAC:D

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=24188&highlight=Transom+replacement+begins

[jmdank]

B.Mac......Did you use any part of your transom as a template, or did you take it out in clumps????
thanks,
Jason

[jmdank]

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[B.Mac]

Believe me ya got your hands full just getting it out:eek: A template is easy once you get to the outer skin. I used a rotary air grinder with a plunging router bit (DONT GO TOO DEEP) and made several "X's in the first layer of plywood then pryed, hacked, chewed, scraped, chisled and peeled a little section at a time out. It aint comin' out as a template. Then did the same process with the second (final) layer, only more slowly and more carefully as not to cut through the glass, especially at the hull joint. Once ya get it all out and the inside of the outer skin ground with 40 grit your good 'ta go.

Then ya just locate you some nice big sheets of rigid cardboard stock (I used political campaign signs) and make a template. The template will take a couple of trys but once ya got it, ya got it.
Go to a sign shop they have 4X8 sheets of waterproof cardboard stock and it's cheap......1-2 sheets is all ya need, depending on how many trys it takes ya....... and the stuff is great for mixing resin & cabosil on too!!!!
I brought my old thread back up TTT check it out page #4 for template.
To bad I didn't save it........:(

I left about a consistant 1/4" gap cut at the correct angle to the floor when installing the first core. Then filled the gap with cabosil and resin. Dont forget to increase the height of your second core a hair, then repeat.

The tool I bought from Home Depot for $35, saved me DAYS of work. Cambell Hausfield and two bits, a plunge cut 1/4" rabit bit, and a small grinder for cleaning up the hard to reach spots......
Lookin' good!!!
B.MAC:D

[jmdank]

Thanks B.
I figured that was the case. I guess I will start pryin the glass off and chunkin the wood out today.
updates will hopefully come soon.
gotta run!!

[sho305]

Yes, that is the hardest part. Layup takes time but is not that hard to do. You have to fight some to get that mess out so don't make it any more fun:) 15 minutes measuring and fitting should have you a template, I used cardboard from a big box; and I taped sections together to fit angles to the hull. I had my wood in there about 5 times before I was happy even then. Remember it will be a hair bigger when you glass the wood before you install it to waterproof the wood well. I painted it with resin(epoxy) twice to get it covered good, then a thin layer of cloth and a little mat where the bolts go. I might of been more picky if that was not an 85hp boat. I think I did thicker mat and two layers cloth over it all in the hull(inside)and extra on seems. I guess you put mat on first:confused: then cloth. Some say no...have to figure that out before the next one:)

[jmdank]

Well I have been moving slow but sure, I will hopefully kick it up a knotch this weekend. Diden't get much time last weekend.

sho, with the mat I was told that it was used for bulk(adding mass), and to put over cloth or bi-ax to get an easy'er finish??? I was told this by larry at Raka??? I may have it wrong..

[sho305]

That was last summer, so I forget some...but I had this thick mat I thought, the fibers go all over a mess looking stuff. Then I got some kinda light plain woven cloth I used a couple layers at a time.

I was told to put the heavy mat on the wood first after you paint it(the wood) with resin to seal it. It would stick better as it holds more resin than cloth so it fills into/contours the wood better. It also makes a space between the wood and woven for another layer of composite strength. Then put woven over it according to what you are doing. Then, you can use that thin sheer stuff to make it smoother on the last layer if you want.

But now I see others saying to just use the woven all the time, as it is stronger and holds less heavy resin for less weight; if you soak/roller it good it will stick to the wood fine. So I don't know. I was only repairing a transom and some little things. I put the heavy stuff on, then some woven, and layered plenty of woven over the seams and the knee thing in there as well as up on to the well. The heavy mat I had would not go around corners hardly. I jumped on the motor leg and it would not move at all. I know I have about double the cloth/epoxy in there than I cut out. I think the Force triple is 275lbs.

Even so, I'm going to slip another chunk of 3/4 inside there before the jack goes on to help out. Only one 3/4 in the lower part(?) I guess that is 90hp transom in a Bayliner for you. At the time I was going to sell it.

Looks good! Unless you hate glass, this is the hard part IMHO.

[B.Mac]

Thinks of matt as a binding material (use it between anything you want to stay together forever) -or- a finishing material due to the random strand pattern of the matt, and it's absorbing properties of resin. Matt is easier to shape, grind and finish.

I don't use Roven at all......it's obsolete in most applications.
Use (3208) EDIT/ CORRECTION 1708 bi-axel cloth for any joints, or high stress areas as well as many other applications as it is stronger, lighter, and more pliable than woven roven. 1708 is a bi-directional woven cloth with a built in layer of matt on one side THIS STUFF IS STRONG.
The strands run diagonal and @ 90* to each other in a matt base, it is heavily stitched as to not unravel and comes in a variety of weights/ thicknesses. I also stay away from finishing cloth except for some unique exterior hull applications......
http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=24188
B.MAC:D

[sho305]

I had the mat and some other stuff from auto body, and I got a couple yard of woven from Boats US with the West epoxy. So when I do a 100+hp transom...I want to make sure it is right:cool: and I will order stuff I can't find here, 3208?

I think I put the mat, about 1/8" thick dry, over the whole thing inside about 32" wide. My wood was only about 24". Then 4 layers cloth and 2-3 more on seams and the one knee next to the wood. All they did was spray it with chopper, heavy on the edge of the wood that I left there to hold new wood anyway. The outside skin was about 3/8"-1/2" thick though; have to give them that. I screwed the outer skin back on and made the seams tapered about 3" wide and laid 4 layers of the cloth in them before filling.

I don't care about looks in the hull, but if I do a pad I may have to use something smooth to a point. Hate to make a mold just for a pad. Wanted to use foam but I might go with wood on this hull just to keep it straight easier since it is not fancy.

So your saying use the mat on the outside when you want it smoother or if you are going over it again? Yes, the mat is easier to grind for preperation. I don't want trouble if I do something with a V6 hanging on it.:) I read up on the net here, but the old ways don't sync with what is said here.

[B.Mac]

Originally posted by sho305
and I will order stuff I can't find here, 3208?

Sorry sho, I meant 1708 biaxel.......
B.MAC:D

[sho305]

Thanks, I'll make a note of it. Judging by your transom, it may be good for bomb shelter construction as well:D

[175checkmate]

I remember that mess. Good luck to ya. I still have a ton of work to do on my tri-mate. It will have to wait untill it gets relocated to Nebraska. Then the floor and seat boxes will go in.

[jmdank]

Thats what I am using B.

175 keep on truckin and get that floor done!!! I wish I was up to that point!! This removing wood and fiberglass thing is a bear!!

Well hopefully I have more pictures of progress up tonight..

[Capt.Insane-o]

Just looking at those pictures, see the nice thing about Hydrostreams is that they are all so rotten by now a couple launches off a good wave, then you just shovel all the mess into a garbage can. :eek:

[jmdank]

c'mon now I seem to remember a HST that had some repair done to it without ending up in the trash can.
Just taking a break from that itchy mess right now.(gotta get some blood back in my arms) I am gonna have that wood out of there tonight!!!!!!(I hope). The closer I get to that outer skin the slower I get. You still coming into town tommorow??

[Capt.Insane-o]

Goddammn headgskets are leaking in my truck pretty bad now, so I may have to do that tomorrow, been putting it off for awhile. That vector I have, I peeled almost everything up with my barehands. Coring was mush. Took about 20 minutes to strip the hull from the windsheild back. What a mess. I'll letyou know tomorrow when I'll be down. I went out and looked under the hood today and started swearing already..........

[jmdank]

sounds good!! whenever is fine, just let me know. Lets hope you don't need those heads milled!!! dinen't overheat it did you??
well geuss its time to crawl back into the boat!!

[Capt.Insane-o]

You should ride down to see Viscious with me here one day. Put some foam stringers and board back in it. Be much lighter. The hottest my truck ever got was 220-230 when the thermostat stuck one day, I hope they don't need to be milled, I've got 177,000 on it now. Burns a quart of oil every 10,000 or so. Used synthetic since 1200 miles. It's full of those ****ing reverse torx heads on the intake though. We'll see. Sure would suck if I have to drive my GTO for a few days , not! :D :cool:

[jmdank]

220-230 you should be ok!! I have some reverse torx sockets if ya need to borrow some. You know what size you got??? I am thinking about foam board, not sure yet though. yea I would like to take a trip down there for sure.

[jmdank]

It is now out. Just have to clean up the edges, and decide how I am gonna cover the splash well, then its time to re-install. Oh joy.....time for the sticky mess of epoxy.

[Capt.Insane-o]

Yore going is the right direction now! Now it's time for the dehabilitating effects of resin! It's warm enough to do it outside now anyhoo. It's a good feeling when it comes to putting stuff back in.

[bulldogdaddy]

thats just where i'm at on the borum. those dremmel tools come in handy in those tight areas to get the edges off of the glass.good luck:D

[Capt.Insane-o]

How 'bout you! lol! I'll post up some pics tomorrow, not a pleasent job. itchin' and bitchin'. came out ok I think.

[jmdank]

not
I will get it looking better and take some pic's tomorrow!!

[Capt.Insane-o]

through the tip of my index finger, man what a bitch. Fingers are all picky, sucky sucky. It's all ready to lay up though. My buddy is doing it tomorrow night. Due to carple tunnel I will be useless tomorrow, can barely work the mouse right now. Good day to drink beer and bug the **** out of him.:) Seating position is perfect now. When it's done I'll come down and release your lower from hostage status.:eek:

[jmdank]

my boat aint movin for a while!!!!! If you need any help just let me know!! Man not much more time till Oscoda.cant wait!!!!

[Capt.Insane-o]

Now I remember why i gave up working with 'glass.:eek:

[jmdank]

I am cleaning the boat up now. Checking in here periodically for a break.. Man my whole garage stinks like wet wood. That transom was in alot worse shape than i thought it was. The closer I came to the outer skin the wetter it was. This is one case where wetter is not better:D

[B.Mac]

Don't re-install the tie down hooks in the transom as they are unneeded and are below the water line. Get a pair of stainless carabeener type hooks and hang them from the swim platform brackets for tiedowns & skiing.
Less holes = less leaks:D
B.MAC:D

[jmdank]

thanks B. I think I just might have to do that!!

[B.Mac]

Without extra holes......just make sure you brace the back of the platform bolts inside the hull:D
B.MAC:D

[jmdank]

That is one heck of an idea!!! you's got's brain's!! I will definitely do it that way!! any more helpfull hints???

[bulldogdaddy]

was surprised just how much that crap weighed! 4 guys couldnt lift my boat's ass end off the trailer when it got here! now with the wood and foam gone i can lift it by myself. and for those fiberglass splinters,got 1 and was a mess! got leather gloves after that. bmac,great idea!

[jmdank]

the whole time!!!!! No splinters yet but I have itched like crazy every time I get in the boat.... Those days will soon be behind me!! I know what you are saying Bulldogdaddy, that wet wood and soaked foam add alot of weight!!!! I am not sure how much the wet wood, and foam I took out of my boat weighed but it was definitely a few hundred pounds for sure!!!

[sho305]

Seen a few wet foam posts, and that reminds me about those boxes under the seats in my boat...I just bet they are full of water too.:(

[Capt.Insane-o]

My sponsons were soaked. Water was leaking in around the "ski hooks" Which are im possible to get at on a HST. I"m going to cut them off from the outside and fill the holes. And but hooks on my setback for trailer tie towns.

[jmdank]

You sure don't need em for ski'n on your boat any way!!!!
"any one for a 100mph pass on a tube:eek: "
how is that floor..er ah...kinda floor coming??

[Capt.Insane-o]

oops. I don't know, I went down to Sparky's today to bs. I'll be working there a few days a week. I'm going to call my buddy tonight and see how he made out. **** be slow otherwise, I wish the damn weather would straighten out. How 'bout them winds? DAAAAAMN!

[jmdank]

This weather is stupid!!! rain,wind....rain,wind....bla bla bla. I am ready for sun!!! Hey cap'n do you have a transom bracket/swivel bracket for a 2.4??? I might need one, not sure yet gotta inspect it better.

[Capt.Insane-o]

I think I may have 2 older ones. Went up to the park Sat. just to see what was going on. Freakin 20 dgrees cooler there than at my house. No leaves yet, but that smell was in the air, and the pond looked perfect, I had to leave before I started to cry.:D

[jmdank]

is in the boat. There is a lot of play where the motor swivels (left to right) on the bracket.
Man I can't wait to get up to Oscoda, got the same lot as last year, not too far from yours!!!!

[Capt.Insane-o]

I know, all my friends were like" Where's your camper and boat?" I just have'nt had enough time to get my motorhome over there. All the jet boat guys were asking what I was doing to my boat, I just smiled. One guy hangs out on the Hot Bote site and they are all telling him it's impossible for my boat to go over 80, it's hillarious trying to tell him different. Especially when 5 other guys who saw my GPS immediatley after I pulled into the launch.

[jmdank]

He is just ignorant.. He will learn..
So how do we fix that wobble??

[Capt.Insane-o]

easy. The tilt tube may need to be replaced, I have those new also. Beer and......... well beer work:D

[jmdank]

gotcha!!!

[sho305]

Impossible to go over 80?? Capt. Insane-o???

:eek:

:eek:

HAAAAHAAAHAHAAAAAAHAHAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHHAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!:D :p :D :D ROTFLMAO!

Sorry, just couldn't keep that in.:) I tried, couldn't do it.:o

This weekend sucked so bad! Calmed down today, and my jackplate showed up so I was happy:) Hunter is da man! Is Sparky doing ok over there? Mighty quiet there....I got new leaves coming on the trees here; except for all the ones stuck to the sides of the house from that wind.

[Capt.Insane-o]

You need to come down for a visit. I'll be there 3- 4 days a week. I might scrape up some materials and try to make one of those 10 footers. Put my 58a on it and make a nuisance out of myself.:cool:

[sho305]

I'd love to visit, just have all kinds of stuff in the fan here holding me up this spring. Now have to put a rack in a car so I can drive that...never ending.:rolleyes: Maybe later on. Those cats are so nice.

That 10' sounds cool. Saw one over here with a (400)40hp Merc on it, don't know what brand hull. It said 'Sewer Shark' on it and needed some TLC. I'm full up right now or I would have asked about it. You know a V6 is not going to fit on one, I know what you are thinking...:) lol

[jmdank]

I am moving slow!!! But I hate grinding all of that filler!!!(Dusty,Dusty) Now I just have to finalize how I am gonna put it all back in. (oh ya I also have to finish cutting out the splashwell) oh well I have time to think about it still have to get the wood(or foam??), and funds are low.;)

[jmdank]

should I replace the wood in here??:confused:

[Capt.Insane-o]

Tear it out. You've gone this far. Nothing worse than a leaky drain plug fittiing, I know I have 3. Lookin' good man!

[jmdank]

The black you see there is not rot but some type of black paint they put on at the factory. They only put it on from the rear bench seat and back???? But you are Right I sure don't want to see a leaky drain plug after it is all done.. No big deal that little section will come out quick!! How is the HST coming anlong??? How is the new job??

[Capt.Insane-o]

I made the mistake of pulling the boat out in the sun Saturday and the glass kicked off before we got finished, not entirely too happy with the way it came out, I kind of left it up too my buddy, he's having stress right now and it kind shows. I'm going to haul it down to work this week and fix it up. I'll be boating by Friday again. So I should stop by your work about 4 friday with a cooler full of cold ones?:D

[jmdank]

Sounds good to me my man!!
Keep me posted I am ready when you are!!

[B.Mac]

Weight is not an issue in these hulls. Strength is. I went with two beam to beam 3/4" marine ply, then another 3/4" center core integrated into the stringer/ knee system. Ended up with just over 3" thick. If you seal it right, that transom will outlast the rest of the hull.......
B.MAC:D

[jmdank]

That wood was WET!!

[jmdank]

So is the core in this area about 1 - 2 inches in from the area I just cut out!! UUHHGG

[B.Mac]

Have you located dry core yet? I'm surprised that core is wet, they seal that core with alot of glass......somebody musta left the plug in her and let her sit outside for awhile........Shouldn't be too bad.......a few inches forward at the most I would guess.....

Careful with that airchisel.......don't delam the good core from the bottom....might want to switch to a grinder......or rotary air tool....
all that chipping can't be good for the bonding of the core/ hull.
B.MAC:D

[jmdank]

No problem with the air hammer!! I have used this kind of tool alot, and know how to work with it (nice and easy) I have been using a air powerd die grinder and a electric grinder also. You just have to be easy on how many cfm you put through the air hammer, and if you don't go overboard, and use a second hand to guide the bit it is a great tool for delaminating. I figured someone would say a thing or two about that!! I am not sure how the core got wet right there but I think that there was a defect in the resin. There is not too much wet balsa, but there is a little spot so I am going to take out a two inch strip, and replace it. Thanks for the tips B.MAC keep them coming I always appreciate them!!:)

[jmdank]

Here are most of the tools being used on the job:D

[Capt.Insane-o]

LOL! Jason this is your gearcase calling help help! Ahh I need to get some sleep:D

[jmdank]

I better get a sledge!!!! I can here the gear case from here:D
Sounds like you are having a long weekend man!!! You need a good dose of sun!! oh...hold on....we aint gettin no sun here. what is up with this weather..:( :(

[jmdank]

With all of this removing. Looks like the drain plug was leaking around its seal:rolleyes:
Water seeped into the hull core some:rolleyes:
well back to work I guess- after a little break;)

[jmdank]

the water did not get to the core thru the glass on top of it, it seeped into the core where it butted up against the wood where the leaky drain plug was.. The circled areas are the wet spots.

[B.Mac]

Your gettin' to the fun part now!!! C'mon jm, take a deep breath and get back at her!!! You'll be really glad you did when it starts going back together!!! Get that little bit of wet core outta there and get 'ta glassin' :D

Hey, it coulda been a Vector, saturated to the bow!!!
B.MAC:D

[jmdank]

All this taking out the wet suff and the itchy stuff is getting to me, I just wanna be putting it back in the dry stuff, and getting to other parts of this project:D

[sho305]

I was all happy when I started getting the new wood and glass in there. It was like the wiping the first spot of wax back off the car...though a lot slower:) Get lots of latex gloves.

[Capt.Insane-o]

I'll see if I can get you hooked up. HST is almost done, Waiting on Bobs for my bearing carrier rebuild kit. :( Of course they were out of stock. I need to get to Old Orchard for a few and do some fishing and dreer binking:D. You need to come check out the shop too. A couple things will send you mind spinning. :eek:

[175checkmate]

Looking good so far, I just read everything to date. I had to catch back up. I agree with Bmac loose the tow hooks. I did not reinstall mine. When I rigged it for towing I used the jackplate as a tie down point. Worked real good. I also went with 3 3/4 plywood. Its over kill on my boat but I don't want to do this again.
Here is a shot of what it looks like now. Had to rig to trailer it up to Nebraska. Have to buy a lifting eye to get it back off. Still have a bunch of sanding to do back there to get it ready for paint.

[jmdank]

Gonna get after the trimate again soon??

Cap'n (You ever watch the movie waterboy???) I am gonna be needing supplys soon! Got the epoxy, Got some of the glass (1708 and also some kevlar)Gonna need just a little balsa, and I have not yet decided on foam or wood yet!

Well here is a pic of the slash well freshly cut today. I am thinking I am gonna make the top flush except for the last few inches. It will slope from there to the top of the transom. (kinda like making it a deck) Not sure on that yet, but its runnig through my head. I would have to move the gas tank vent. What do ya think??
-Jason

[sho305]

That is a thought. I wanted to put a hatch there so I could get at my bilge behind the gas tank in mine...but I wanted to knee the well too, so I am not sure about it being weaker with a big hatch there. Or, if I really need to knee the well or not.

I had planned on cutting it just like you have there. I figured making it like the new Checkmate with the smaller well area was just not worth the extra effort to remake it all. Mine has the whole well curved in front to back like a dish, and the sides are straight.

[Liqui-Fly]

I have to be done in two weeks. The awful grinding looks like it's over for you. My drain plug area is black also but I think it's supposed to be:D It seems pretty solid. I guess I could drill a little and see.Keep going!!

David

[175checkmate]

Good idea on closing in the back. Just remember that you have to tilt the engine forward for trailering and such. Make sure you have the room. Mine was real close. I thought I messed up. It was real close.

[jmdank]

Mine was painted black, and I was not going to give it much thought. But I tell ya if you have a crimp in drain plug fitting-- I bet it was leaking! Look how mine even seeped into the core. It is worth the little effort of replacing. Man you will be finished way before me. I still have to flip it and add a pad - plus new paint and a bunch of little things. No water till next year (first time in eight years!)

175 - I will be sure to have enuff room to tilt my mota. I will still have a notch in the back, plus I will have alot of set back! No doubt I will measure twice and rebuild once.
How close did you get till not being able to tilt your motor?
-Jason

[sho305]

My Checkmate has the brass tube. The Bayliner had the screw on flange and threaded plug...and I wondered why, duh. I holesawed it out loose and painted it with epoxy, and even got one layer of cloth in the hole too. Then 5200 and screwed the flange back on. Think I'll do the 'Mate the same but with the tube, so if it leaks the hole is all glass inside. Don't care for the screw in plug as well. That 5200 is the greatest though.

[175checkmate]

IT is close enough when the lower pan just misses the transom. This is with 5" of set back. If I raise the jackplate up a bit more I should have no trouble. But for a base line I set the height that same as last year with the old jackplate. It is close.

[jmdank]

Still not sure on foam board or wood. I still have to find a source on a little peice of 1/2 balsa can't seem to find balsa local!
Question- can I use epoxy and 1708, or cloth, or somthing of that nature insted of using the balsa as a core in that this little area??

[Capt.Insane-o]

I'll bring it by next Thursday and you can check it out.

[jmdank]

That suff is hard to find!!- Man Lynn if you diden't have bad luck with your HST this year you would not have any luck! I bet you have got to be ready to spend more time in the water!

anyone know if I can take out that balsa and replace it with just epoxy and some sort of filler??

[Capt.Insane-o]

Only I made the stupid mistake of putting on my 2.5 after I blew the first one up last year. A week later that went boom. I'm about just ready to shrink wrap it and put it away for the rest of the year. Not having too much fun anymore. I'll bring you some coring to put back in that spot. There are some scrap pieces floating around the shop. You up for the River Roar in a couple weeks? I can't wait for it, we can go pester Gordie Miller about those shifting sst 45 cases;) . Had the Viper out this morning, what a rush that little boat is, was up at 6 a.m. and on the water by 6:30. I needed that sooooooo bad. Still can't wipe the grin off my face. I can run the piss out of that boat and never have anything break, but look wrong at the HST and **** starts falling off of it.:rolleyes: The ol' 260 was howling pretty good this morning.

[jmdank]

I am there!
I got the itch to work on the boat today but not much I can do right now. Don't give up on the HST just don't think about it for a few, then get back at it after a little break. you will be refreshed.

[Capt.Insane-o]

Can you measure up the area and I'll bring some up with me.

[jmdank]

roughly. just pulled the boat out of the garage for cleaning!
Hey how was cleavland?? Good time?

[jmdank]

:eek:

[jmdank]

:eek:

[Capt.Insane-o]

Nevermore was awsome. Met up with Lqdegl and partied. I think I drank 100 beers that day. Was good to get out of Dodge for a day. I can smell the race gas in bay city already, can't wait.

[jmdank]

after the transom, stringers, and floor

[jmdank]

adding a pad:D

[B.Mac]

I'll be watchin' this pad project as I'm gonna do the same hull in the fall......... I figure it's gonna take about 12" minimum pad approx. 8' long from the stern. Whadda you got planned jm?

[jmdank]

12" to 14" wide, and 6' to 8' long. Still gotta do more searching on that. Got some time though!

Are you gonna start the pad at the step?? sounds like that might be what your doing.
-Jason

[B.Mac]

I've been having a difficult time designing this pad to transition from the existing "V " into a pad without cutting into the existing "V". This would require the pad to be pretty tall which in turn may reqiure another lifting strake on each side......
This is a pic of a nice V to pad transition I found.........

[B.Mac]

is on this nice little fishin' boat I saw over at Alligator Lake at the Mellonbelly meet.........:D

[jmdank]

A 12" pad would be about 2 1/4" tall, 14" about 3", and a 7" pad would be about 1".(not exact) how about gluing a wood core (cut to shape) to the hull and glassing over top of it. Are you really thinking of cutting into the V to make your pad?
-Jason

[jmdank]

If you left the tip of the V exposed like this it would cut down on the height of the pad a bit.
Is this a bad idea?
-Jason

[Capt.Insane-o]

:cool: Whydontchya cut a couple tunnels too:p

[jmdank]

Just can't figure out how to stop the water from coming in the holes I cut;) ;)

:D

[175checkmate]

Here are a few of the pictures that rickracer sent over of a pad install

[175checkmate]

2

[175checkmate]

3

[175checkmate]

5

[175checkmate]

6

[jmdank]

Thanks 175! I see ya got a stringer installed. Glad to see ya getting back at it!

[ncst8er]

It looks like the pad extended to the inside edge of the original lifting strakes and then they were raised some also to mantain the relationship between the two. It appears in the photos that some type of liquid filler was poured in to make the new pad (yes/no?)

[jmdank]

must be epoxy with some sort of filler

[sho305]

Is that first pic the deadrise? Is it supposed to be different side to side?

That is identical to my 16 Bayliner except for the first set of strakes ending 18" short of the transom. It has the same flush pad and it gets wider as you go aft.

I think someone said you can mix the glass fibers that are ground to make filler...I'd rather take up the room with wood and maybe pour the top only.

My checkmate is the same as Jim's but without the step in the vee. I think I will chop out a relief it does not have, but fear distortion of the hull and lots of work if I cut out more than 10" or so of the vee. Lots of people have recommended doing as you suggested by enlarging the first strakes rather than a tall flat pad. Even Tony Brucato did his that way. I was hoping someone with a tall flat one would be here to tell us:) What would happen if you made an 8" flat pad on the vee and then stepped it 2" to 12" wide like the tunnel pads sort of? Like B.Macs pics though that looks wider.

[B.Mac]

I've been thinking the same thing jm, about leaving the tip of the "V" protruding through the pad like your pic shows .......
No I will not cut the hull.........
I would like to hear some feedback from the pad gurus on this?
B.MAC:D

[jmdank]

on that also.
I was told by a good source, that the way i drew it in the pic would be the way to go.

[175checkmate]

Yep going to be watching for information also. THe mate will get a pad. Its now just a matter of how and how big. Its going to fly, oh yes.

[sho305]

I have a couple of pad threads here...:) And I was told that was a good way too. My only problem is I don't like 12"+ setback and want to relieve it. Then you need to raise it or chop it. I was thinking if I chopped 10" or so, then ran my knees over it for support and mat the crap out of it I could get away with it:eek: I assume raising the pad much is not going to help the hull balance and should be avoided.

What about the "100mph vee..." thread? How those guys drive vees around 100 mph with 300 Mercs and no pad? Maybe we don't want/not going to afford the needed power on our boats; but what is with those pad-less hulls and being able to go that fast without going to chine walking hell? :confused: :confused: I don't get that.

[Capt.Insane-o]

That is nothing but trouble. I would step the pad in front of the transom. If you need more than 8 it's time to reconsider what your doing and get the boat to run loose naturally instead of tearing the hell out of the transom with a mile of setback. Dankster, did you get up t5o the park yet? I'm gonna lose my mind here if i can't escape for a couple three days.:eek:

[B.Mac]

You're right about the 12" setback tearing up a stock transom......
It must be braced heavily but it will help a Starflite air out tremendously.......
Unless ya got a 300X ain't nothin' gonna fly that nose w/o setback.

The Starflite already has a 5" notch to start with.....
So I'm actually running 17" of setback.
B.MAC:D

[jmdank]

Just got back from old orchard! man was it packed.
saw your motor home there. It looked lonely:(
weather on friday was bad- saturday and today was :D :D good.
but the traffic home was terrible.
It sure was odd being there without a boat!

[sho305]

With my 17' BR Checkmate, everyone said 12-20" setback to fly. I can get the bow up plenty high with trim and the Laser prop, but lots of trim. Maybe less trim with a V6 than my inline? I don't know how much trim equals X amount of setback to lift the bow.

How stupid is this idea: If I wanted to keep the pad low profile on this vee, what would happen if you enlarged the lowest strakes like discussed...then just stopped 12-?" or so from the transom. (Mine has no relief) Would that original vee point dragging slow you that much or trash handling? Not optimal, but just a thought to save some work.

I have a 6" jack that would look good on there. I would beef up the stock transom, but just can't see the huge setback. I would rather change the hull while I'm doing the transom to update it; instead of a huge bandaid. I could see the big setback on a strong new boat that you don't want to take the grinder too...:eek:

I was looking at it this weekend....the Merc said it was lonely...:rolleyes: :( :(

[Capt.Insane-o]

That is exactly why I have'nt been there. Going there without a boat is like murder, especially with all my jetboat buddies asking "where's your boat?" They are in for one hell of an ass kicking, again, when I do get there though!:D I'll post up what I think you guys should do with your hulls.:cool:

[sho305]

C'mon Captain, we gotta do something until we get a 'Stream or tunnel...:D lol And I can't afford to buy one of the ten BR hydrostreams left in existence...then I need two boats...ooops, I got three now plus two row boats..:rolleyes:

[Capt.Insane-o]

i'm sure, there at least five running around here. Jim can whip you up a new one. Time to sell the crap!:eek: :D

[sho305]

I'll have to do some homestead fixing before I can think about a new hull:( Something will come up, and I'll have some non-boat stuff gone here soon to make room by then I hope. Cars are not as much fun as boats, but they make me more $$$. Got another beater today, but it will be fixed and gone fast...easy cash, I can't resist it. What you going to sell by the way?

[jmdank]

wish me luck!!
I will have pictures to post on the progress.(I know I know I am slow)

[sho305]

Let us know how it goes jmdank, here is one of my pad posts: http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27297 with some vee-to-pad info. Basically, you are right I think. They say flat is fast, and leaving a little vee is good if you need to; due to getting too high in height of pad. I might go that way in my vee, but still stop the enlarged strakes before the transom for a little relief on my BR. Still trying to get the wife to forget I have it until I can do it up.:rolleyes:

If you were really going to fly, I wonder if it would be a good idea to put a couple degrees of wedge into the pad mods???

[Capt.Insane-o]

I'll be home tomorrow night with yer core. 25x 15, 1/2 inch right?

[jmdank]

you headin up to the park this weekend??
you need to get a boat up there!! all I saw last weekend was a bunch of jet boats:(
I think I saw daytona19 up there as I was leaving on sunday. If it was him, it was the only decent outboard there.
How is the new boat coming along??

[jmdank]

I sure do appreciate what ya did for me!! I will be getting to work on it in the morning!!


By the way here is marley just before you got here.

[Capt.Insane-o]

Cool dog, and no prob.

[jmdank]

Finaly startin to put back in!!! I had trouble finding balsa any where around here! luckaly cap'n baild me out, and hooked me up with some:D (thanks again lynn). It sure does feel good to be getting ahead now instead of falling behind. Now I am just waiting on the plywood to come in at lowes. (they had to order it) They say it sould be in by friday. Well here is a pic of the progress.
-Jason

[jmdank]

Got two transom cores cut out today, did not think this day would ever come. Making the template for the transom was a pain in the but! I used a large cardboard box. I cut it down to ruff size then traced the outside of the transom onto the cardboard. It don't sound to bad, but man it was a pain. I did not get much time today because I had to attend a wedding. Here is a progress pic. Hopefully I will have ALOT more progress tomorrow.
-Jason

[175checkmate]

Cutting it out of cardboard is a pain but alot cheeper than doing it in wood and making a mistake. Looking good.

[Capt.Insane-o]

If I don't make it to the Rumble I'll give you a ring and I'll let you see what a 2.4 can do! Plus some drinkin'!:eek: Done yet?!:D

[jmdank]

Sounds Good man- I am there. Give me a call if ya dont go. So that 2.4 is pulling good?
I havent had a ton of time to work on the boat as of lately, because of little this and that things. But it is getting further!! I will be postin some update pics at the end of this weekend.
where have ya been?

[sho305]

Capt Insane-o! Where you been hiding? Had time to work the cat 17' at all? I hauled the old Checkmate 17' home and ran the inline on the hose...the guy next door must have enjoyed that:) I sure did. Got rid of all the bugs anyway:D Need to rig up a deal to get the inline off the hull now...can I use a strap to lift it? I need to weld up a stand first, think I got some casters here someplace. I need a rubber bushing for the trim sometime too. Also lost the blue "I6" sticker from the top cover.

Anyone want to buy a spotless '92 F150 ext cab flareside with low miles? Maybe a fair '93 cherokee with high miles? Both 4x4s...
:confused:

[jmdank]

This is not an up to date picture, but it shows the filler I used to to meet the balsa to the plywood. The filler was made from epoxy, fumed sillica, and 1/4" chopped carbon fiber. I rounded the edges so the glass would lay over better when rolling it out. now I have it glassed over, I used 1708 bi-ax layered with 10 oz. cloth. I will be putting in the first transom layer towards the end of the week, or this weekend.

[jmdank]

The transom is not in yet but the cores are cut and ready. I found a bubble in the glass right in the center of the V. So I figured I better get rid of it. I ground it out, and found good balsa but I also ground a little of the balsa out so I just filled in the ground spots with epoxy with chopped carbon and fumed silica. The filler is the dark spot you see in the center of the V. I put in two layers of 1708 bi-ax on top of it the first layer was just larger than the area I ground ( about 2" by 20") then I put a bigger layer on that. The yellow suff in the back is kevlar. I wanted to seal up the area better where the drain plug will be located so I used a layer of kevlar because it lays so easy over the bends.

[B.Mac]

Take your time and do it right. You certainly have so far......
You obviously take great pride in your work and it shows!!!!
Beautiful job..........
Now.......GET BACK TO WORK!!!!!!!:eek:
B.MAC:D

[jmdank]

I sure do appreciate that!

Here is a picture of my mock up.
Is this going to be OK for clamping? I am gonna use the contraption I made that you see in the center, clamps at the top of the splashwell, and also a 2x4 on each side wedged into place, and screws with fender washers on the back of the transom in every hole that I am going to have to drill out anyways. I ran a level across the back of the transom and there seems to bo no bowing. Also I was going to lay up a layer of 1708 before the first peice of core but now I think I am just going to use thickened epoxy and adhere the first board to the skin so the thickened epoxy can fill any unevenness and or small voids. Will that be okay?

[Capt.Insane-o]

I'd still use a layer of something between the wood and skin. Park this weekend?, hot boat meet ya know.

[Liqui-Fly]

I had an old trailer jack that I was saving for years and fiunally got sick of looking at it and chucked it. Can't think of how many times I would have used it if I though of your set up there. Damn. It's looking good!!

David

[sho305]

Hey, I got one of those jacks you use in a truck box to steady stuff, about 6' long...would be nice for that when I do mine. Also have a big portapower if I want, but it is real heavy. I think the truck jack was pretty cheap...and if you have a truck you can use it in.:) Like $20 from Meijer I think.

JmDank, looking nice. I want to cut that into mine, and I think I'll run a knee(s) over it since it is not there now to make it strong. I think I can layer the skin back in under the new pad and on the inside. Only the transom area I'll have to work on some, maybe I'll use more layers in it to leave room for overlap on the skin. A little glad there is no core in this hull, but very interesting to see how yours is working out.

I have seen on other posts, to not use filler (without glass cloth of some sort) on any bonding unless you only have to fill a surface blemish/texture/etc.; as it has no strength on its own. How much stuff(fibers?) do you have to mix in to make it stronger? I was going to lay mat or roven on the old skin and clamp with plain or slightly thickened resin. Or seal the bottom, then pour it in and clamp it so it runs out the top.

[jmdank]

Not gonna be able to make it this weekend for sure:( Sure wish I could though! I just filled in the voids with thickend epoxy. I will use 1708 between the core and the skin with just regular unthickend epoxy.

Liqui- dont worry when ya need an old trailer jack for clamping I will just overnight mine to ya. lol;)

Sho- Here is a picture of the thickend epoxy it is fumed silica and 1/4 chopped carbon fiber. The carbon is like hair and is alot lighter than chopped glass. It makes a strong mixture! I use enuff to make it a texture between mayonnaise and peanut butter.

[sho305]

Looks like a wet rat in there...lol:) Those are big fibers, I see what you mean. Does it spread ok? Looks pretty tuff.

[Liqui-Fly]

Looks like he's got a dead bird stuffed in that cup hehe.

David

[jmdank]

ha ha just kidding! its just a bad picture of the stuff

Sho - nope the stuff spreads hard comapred to epoxy mixed with just fumed silica or milled fiber, but it realy isn't that bad for the area's you use it in. It follows the brush alot when you are laying it down. Maybe somthing other than a brush would be better for laying it down. The suff in the picture had already started to harden so that is why it looks so stiff.

[jmdank]

Well not too much done here I hope to be back to work on the project after the new year.... Epoxy does not cure to well in cold weather . I have heat for the garage but apparently kerosine is not the choice of heat to use with epoxy. Sooooooooo after christmas is done and over with I hope to be able to afford a different heating approach, or possibly santa might bring me a new heater. I wish it was still as warm out as when this picture was taken!!!:(

[baja200merk]

u got pleanty of time

nice job!!

keep up the good work!!

[Reese]

Are you still planning on closing off the splashwell and will you be using any kind of setback?

[jmdank]

yup.... splashwell will be closed for sure. I am not sure how much set back I will have but it will be at least 12" ....maybe more not positive yet. The motor will clear the closed off splashwell though.

[Reese]

Not sure if you have the room for it...or if you want to go to all the trouble of construction, but if you plan on closing the splashwell why not add a sun deck while your at it.

When I took out my splashwell I couldn't believe how much room there was down there...decided to add the sun deck after my wife insisted...;)

[Reese]

I decided to use 15" of stationary setback (have not decided on how much will be added to the notched transom). I did some very non-scientific testing to see what happens to a 3" transom with that much offset weight.

It didn't take a rocket scientist to see that it really needed some knee braces...not sure of your particular design but 12" or more really need that kind of support...if nothing else just so it doesn't rip off when your taking it to your favorite lake.

[jmdank]

Reese,
I will be putting a sun deck on it!!! There is a ton of room to lay on back there and a ton more romm to store stuff inside if need be!!
By the way I have looked over your project many times you do great work and are one of the many people that inspire me on this board.

[sho305]

Reese, ya got some new pics of that thing?:) I don't have room for a deck in my 17'. Not sure what if much to do with that area when I close it up some.

I am thinking on extending the transom like that instead of shortening the pad.

Jmdank, I put an old oil forced air furnace in my garage. They work great and people give them away. Just put it on cement blocks and hook that big tank up and a chimney. Heats up fast. I put 150 gal in and I bet it lasts 4 years using it a couple times a week with thin insulation. Now I just flip the thermostat on and heat is there.

[Reese]

I got new pics of that "thing" but it's only primed...not much better...:D Been working on the trailer, new swing away tongue, disc brakes and diamond plate.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "I don't have room for a deck and I want to extend the transom like you did".

Esplane please.

[sho305]

Doh! My transom is identical to the one of this thread. So it is only what, maybe 6" deep at the well or something and not enough to lay on. Plus it has a dip in the center. The seat has a corresponding dip cutout...I'll find a pic you can see the motor/seat/well relation. I can't fill the well all the way or the motor will hit I think. Don't really know what to do there.

I was just thinking on the pad relief; I may be better off to extend the transom with a built-in setback effectively making the hull longer and not shorter. Might help this 17' handle a V6 better? No? May be easier to run the stringers/knees right through the transom 8" or so (plus a 5-6" jack), than cutting a relief into the vee and redoing that area. With a setback made in the hull, I can just add the pad mod only on the bottom with no cutting there... keep the present running length under there.

[Reese]

I think you really only have a couple of options.

1. If you use a hydraulic jackplate, you may be able to raise the engine (most have 5" of adjustment) high enough so that you won't need to tilt it very much at all.

2. An offset transom is not a very attractive option for a 17' boat especially if you plan on waterskiing or wakeboarding. You'll be much happier with a 5.5" CMC jackplate and a 10-15" notched transom compared to the other way around.

My boat has (really HAD) a very similar bottom to your checkmate, I built a temporary 15" setback to see how it would work...it made the boat unusable for waterskiing and wakeboarding, and my boat is longer than yours.

A small setback and a notched transom will give you the best of both worlds...good planning and holeshot, with good topspeed. FYI, there are bass boats the use no setback and as much as 21 inches of notched transom.

[sho305]

Oh yes, lest I forget that step still gets you out of the hole.:eek: Then I'll stick to the original plan of 10" notch and my 5.5" jack for now with a 10" wide mostly flat pad on the vee. I want more notch, but afraid to go more with only a 17' even though it has a big open bow. I suppose I could fill some in if I went too far, maybe 15" you think? The bow is big but I don't know how heavy, but this hull seems widest at the window. I might end up with a (likely cheaper) OMC on here too that will weigh more. I don't know what I will find when the time comes for a motor. I have to wait a while for that...stupid me, I should do the boat by then too huh.

I like how the step is on that new 'stream:) Also I have to remember this is a reasonable all-around boat and keep myself from trying things that will not help in that area. Too much reading here sometimes. Power jack...that would be nice wouldn't it....hmmm.