Grandsport owners

[kj mac]

300013300014 I would like to hear from other Grand sport owners on how their boat is set up. Mine is a 1991 with a 1996 225 promax, I'm running a 27 hydro quad 4 about 1/4" below the pad and getting about 85 mph with me and my wife. I've been following some of the other threads on here and it seems most guys are getting better speeds with a 225 promax. My motor is stock and the lip on the pad has never been modified. I'm also very conservative with the trim button. How do you guys know when enough is enough when it comes to trim? My motor is setback 12" on an Allison manual jack plate. Should there be more mph with this setup?

[Cp]

You're close. How many r's at 85? Should run about 90 with a little more trim with 2 of you aboard. 3-5 more by yourself. I'd look for a 28 Lightning ET or Chopper. Best advice I can give, except take your time. They do have a bite if provoked.

[Michael J Giesler]

Try a 28 or 30 pitch chopper 2 you should be in the 90's easy now 100 with a pro max you would have to have a perfect set-up

[kj mac]

Cp..... It sounds like I need a 28 chopper, I'm Leary to give it much trim because of all the horror story's I hear about blowout and hooking. I have never driven the boat without a passenger, I need something for counterweight before I go solo. Lots to learn yet but its a lot of fun!!!

Michael..... I have a 26 chopper and get about the same speed as the quad 4, I was thinking that a 27 four blade would run as fast as a 28 three blade. I tried a 28 trophy plus but couldn't turn it. I'll be looking for a 28 chopper.

[Scott Gilmore]

A really nice (cheap) prop for your setup is a 29srx. You didn't say what gearcase you're running, I assume sportmaster but depending on what you have that could holding you back also. I of course agree on the chopper or ET also. Be careful you've got a 95mph boat there that a lot of people can't drive. Scott :cheers:

[toyomirage02]

sounds like your motor is really low also,the more ya raise it the rpms will come up too

[whipper]

Most not all the guys running high 90,s with the promax have a few other things done also. Heads shaved and 7500 rpm acu. To run real fast i have to have very low fuel also. 8lbs per gallon adds up back there. Also the weight of the passenger and driver matter. All the stars need to be aligned in other words. High 90,s with a 225 is a very good day humidity water and air temps just right. It also takes a real good prop. Not going to happen with a 4 blade. It took me many props to find the right one. Like 10++ before I found the one that would break 95 but im at 2500ft above sea level. If your limiter is at 6750 stock your going to need a 30 pitch to break 90 for one thing.

85 with a 27 two up is great with a stock limiter!! Raise that puppy to 7500 and a 28 3 blade will get you some speed solo at 7300 rpm and 1/8 below with a 1/4 tank of gas on a good day. Are you going buy the speedo or a GPS? if speedo get a little Garmin hand held and velcro it to the carbon fiber flat dash and deep 6 the peedo or flip it up out of the way. They read high after 70 or up on the pad.

If your not running premix do it. I run 40-1 always. if your raising the limiter its a must also. Don't trust the plastic worm gear!! I run 33cc heads. At sea level or 1000ft and less i would try some 35cc heads. Jaysmith and lots of others do them for 200 or less with super fast turn arounds. The props mentioned above are all proven great performers so is the one you have. Generally though a 4 blade will turn a little less rpm then a 3 blade because of weight and extra forces. Pitch is pitch. Lighters faster. Another thing i did to mine was turn my seat base sideways. That allowed me to move my seat over to port and loose 30lbs of counter weight and still be balanced. All the little things add up.

I think your setup is great running 85 two up with a 27 pitch four blade unless your limiter is higher than stock. Then I would double check your prop shaft hight then check it again and mark the gauge were 1/4 below and even is. You should never have to go above even with a stock lip and good prop.

[PropHydro]

Cp..... It sounds like I need a 28 chopper, I'm Leary to give it much trim because of all the horror story's I hear about blowout and hooking. I have never driven the boat without a passenger, I need something for counterweight before I go solo. Lots to learn yet but its a lot of fun!!!

Michael..... I have a 26 chopper and get about the same speed as the quad 4, I was thinking that a 27 four blade would run as fast as a 28 three blade. I tried a 28 trophy plus but couldn't turn it. I'll be looking for a 28 chopper.

You will need to trim the QIV OT more because it is a neutral lifting prop. That set up should give you 86-88 with it being a 27p. Guys running the 28p are 90 and above all day long. You are doing good just take it slow there is no replacement for seat time !!!

Todd

[props4u2]

You will need a 30p chopper2 or a 30p Lightning ET, I prefer the ET personally. 12" setback and 1/4" below the pad with a stock pad lip is perfect. With two 200 lb. guys up front, low to mid 90's.

[kj mac]

Whipper...... Thanks for the great info, my motor was rebuilt last year by Supreme Marine in Minneapolis . I'm not sure if my limiter is stock or not, i've never been on it. I'm not using premix now but its another thing I need to consider. The boats speedo is what I'm reading my mph on and the needle on the tach bounces around so much its hard to get an accurate reading but its 6500 or better. I've checked my prop shaft height again and still get 1/4 under, I'm not sure what gauge your referring to for marking 1/4 below and even. I weigh about 245 and my wife is less than half my weight, maybe 115. Neutral trim is at 6 on my gauge and I'm cautiously working my way up from there. I bought a used 24 trophy to use with four adults, I'm not expecting much speed but it should be good for hauling a load.Todd.... Thanks for the reply. I probably need more trim like you say. Every time I give the button a tap I can't help thinking something bad is about to happen. I couldn't even drive the boat until I put your prop on it, works great on my enchanter also.

[whipper]

There is a trim hight gauge you can install. Its great for hydraulic jack plates. Its stock on the little newer GS. Trim up it goes up down down. I mark mine were the different levels are incase I forget were what hight was on the gauge is all. With a passenger I play it safe around 1/4 below always. No point in going for broke with a passenger. If you have oil injection on deep 6 it. Really do it this week!! Its easy to do and peace of mind is nice knowing theres one more thing that cant fail and cost you your motor. My guess is your limitter is stock. Thats 6750 thats also why your at 85 mph. 6700 rpm with a 27 lip factor is were your at. perfectly normal. Allisons in general can run even more efficient than 8% aspectualy with one of Todds props. But on average 7-8% is a great reference point anything better is a bonus.
So you see your on your limiter basicly. A little more trim you say maybe yes but your not going to take advantage of more speed with a 27 pitch without more revs to play with. A good 27 or 28 can be run 7300 rpm+ on a GS solo. if your 85 two up and your 245lbs im 230 your right in there. Some guys are 175-200lbs or less running faster but theres always power to {weight}:D We heaver guys need a little more trim to get the hull up. If your get a Chopper2 todd can cut a what's called a Knob cut on it for you. Its basicly a cut that resembles the now out of production T3-X that was a very fast prop by hydromotive on these hulls. On a lighter setup passenger included i wasn't a big fan of the ET on mine. Maybe if I was lighter?? But found it didnt carry the hull as good lots of other props Ive tryed. If your talking to Todd he can get you running were you want to be. He had a 225 on his GS for years before he made the switch to the 260. His setup run as good or better than 99% of GS owners with both motors. On a side note Todds fastest run with a 225 was with a very special 4 blade not a 3 blade also worth noting. So not always is a 3 blade fastest but generally they are. Ask him about that prop. I lost track of were it went but always wanted to buy it. There real rare these days to find. T4-X with some of his special work done to it.:cheers:

[whipper]

On trim. GPS is critical when maxing out for safety and speed. What I do is once im getting close to were top speed for a given prop is,is do a tap wait for the gps to make an increment up and rpm up. Then one more. As long as the speed and rpm go up together your good you have thrust. If i make one more tap and the rpm went up and the speed never or i accually lost speed i bump back down one then two. That is all ya got. Now disclaimer. Thats what I do solo and works for me when its real calm. Any waves or boat traffic i wouldn't recommend trying this way because when this happens your on the ragged edge. But its a technique that has work many times for me and I know a few others that do it that way also.

i carry a little note pad. i will right down what that speed was with the bump down. Then I can usually duplice it every time out unless is really hot out at the same prop shaft hight etc.. Way more fuel,windy,way hotter day,different body of water, ate a big mac before I went out i dont expect to get there. 1 or 2 mph short no biggy. :D

At 1/4 below you will usually have that one bump and get away with it. two up with no speed and more rpm you may not have a good time!!

[Fasprop]

Get a good 28 Et, Hoss or cut chopper.

it will go then...

[kj mac]

300080 Scott... Yes, its a sportmaster gearcase.
Lee... Are those speeds with a stock limiter?
Whipper... thanks again for all the useful info, I appreciate it. you said you premix at 40:1, I wonder what the ratio is with the injection system? Do you mix in a can or in the boats tank ? I need to buy gas on the lake when we go for the day. I was also wondering how much counterweight you have in your boat and if you remove it when you have another person onboard? A guy at work is selling a 28 chopper not a chopper 2, is there any difference between the two? Thanks again.

[props4u2]

I have never ran a GrandSport with a 225 PM with the limiter raised. I always ran 30p props and didn't have to worry about getting on the limiter.
The stock limiter starts kicking in @ 6750 by enriching the fuel but will run to 7000 before causing the engine to start missing. (If you run it 6800 or more for any length of time, you will tear up the oil pump drive gear on the crankshaft) 66-6700 is all you need with a 30p to run in the 90's.
Do yourself a favor and get an ET instead of a Chopper in my opinion. I had a customer that was 375 lbs. + and myself just over 200 at the time that ran an ET with he and I up front plus his 50 lbs. of balast for when he was solo in the boat and it had no problem with lift even while cruising in the mid-range.
There are many copies of ET's out there that do not work, make sure you get a real ET or one from a reputable prop shop that knows how to make one that works correctly.
I'm not cutting down Todd and Thom's props by any means. I'm sure they have props that will work as well or better, I just know for a fact what an ET does for the GrandSports.

[Mr. Demeanor]

If you're looking for a new chopper or et style prop I can help you out. I have them on sale:
http://shop.coolwaterproducts.com/High-Performance-Propellers_c71.htm

[Michael J Giesler]

I got to run one of the first et. Testing props at mercury racing ran very good I did get to try a new experimental prop that the late Dennis Cavanaugh had me run was a cross between a et and a chopper 2 it was kinda like a wild offshore Dennis was testing it for allys and streams it ran awesome it was a 26 pitch out of the hole ran like a 22 but top out on the limiter just at 100 I wish Dennis would have let me keep it no one at mercury racing knows anything about it what a shame it was a game changer

[whipper]

You can buy these sealed little bottles that stow. You decide how many gallons your going to need then fill one of the bottles to that many gallons. its right on them clear as mud when you see one. When Im on the lake for weeks at a time and fill up on the lake i just bring one filled from shore before I go to the gas bar. On my tank I have marked every 10 gallons with a black felt marker. {or Liters} for me accually.:] So say every 5 gal for you. Then you take a peek and say OK i can put 15 gal in to fill. Then you dump in the bottle useing the 40-1 referance up to were it says 15 gal. Seal it stick it in the boat and go get gas. I dump it in at the gas bar right away when the caps off then fuel up done.

Your oil injection works of the crank so is variable as you increase speed. Up to 50-1 at wot. Less as the demand is less. Its a good system just prone to failing because the part is plastic. If a chunck breaks into the crank that sucks. There is a $10 part called a block of plate. Other than removale of the parts you need this plate to seal of were the gear was thats all. Easy job, theres lots of threads outlineing what to take off.

Reg choppers are not chopper 2,s Chopper 2 is a flow touque hub prop choppers are fixs spline for one. the biggest differance is the blade size. The chopper 2 have a 5inch blade and the choppers unless an old big ear are less. It would be hard to find an uncut chopper used. Most by now have has some work done to them good or bad hit or miss. Theres always a reason there selling a prop if ya know what I mean. If there balde area to work with guys like todd can do some Allison cuts to make them work. Best props to buy are guys who had a small shaft and now have a large shaft with some fixed hub props that were keepers. There the best ones to find. Or guys went to a differant boat or a new motor. All best case reasons to sell a prop. Ya never know till ya try though thats for sure. On the other hand you buy one from Todd it will work right out of the box on Allison. If he will make it work.:]

Counter weight. 45-50 lbs in port gunnel near the back seat. Lighter guys can stuff one further up i tryed that takes to much trim with our power and wieght. I keep a 20LBer portable to stick on the other side with most passangers. Ill throw in the rear compartemt ussually were the cooler box is. That way I get a little more leverage at the stern to compensate for the extra weight up front.

[aaronmt73]

I had a Tim Hackey ally cut chopper 2 on our old Gs.It didn't hold a candle to the bone stock 28p chopper 2.I saw 98 on a lake,possibly a bit left but I ran out of water.I never tried a et but had zero complaints with the chopper 2.This was a 225x with raised limiter.That motor loved being over 7k.

[kj mac]

Thanks for the good info guys, hopefully we'll have decent weather for boating this weekend. Whipper... I'm going to play it safe and remove the oil injection. I put six down rigger balls in a small igloo cooler for counterweight, forty eight pounds total. I'm going out Saturday morning for a solo run, should be interesting.

[whipper]

Thanks for the good info guys, hopefully we'll have decent weather for boating this weekend. Whipper... I'm going to play it safe and remove the oil injection. I put six down rigger balls in a small igloo cooler for counterweight, forty eight pounds total. I'm going out Saturday morning for a solo run, should be interesting.

She will handle like on rails!! If you think your listing to the port a little just move one ball into the center under the back seat. Should be about right for your size though. Once you have detemaned the right counter needed you can find a more portable solution. Let shot in shot bags duct taped is what most use. There around 20-25 each. That way with a passenger you just move one over. Have a great day on the water and be safe. If your going for top speed watch that tach!! if it goes up and the speed didn't bump back out slooow. :] A little hand GPS is soooooooo awesome for safety because you can see 10ths of a mile an hour. If you bumped and the digital never budged or you lost a 10th your one bump past done.:cheers:

[kj mac]

Never made a solo run Saturday morning, way to much boat traffic. My wife and I and another couple spent an enjoyable day on the lake, the weather was perfect and the boat was running good. We put on about sixty miles between pit stops for food and drinks. We were headed for the launch about 7:30 pm when the freshly rebuilt pro max came apart at fifty mph. I don't know the cause but its toast, locked up tight. We got towed the last five miles by a 16' lund with a 25 'rude. When I was cranking her up on the trailer the motor started to trim up on its own. I pulled it out of the water and while I was putting the cover on the boat it did it again, had to disconnect the battery. Strange !! I'm glad it didn't happen while we were in the boat or at speed. Only had about 20 hours on a complete rebuild, over 4k into it. I have a 2011 merc 225 pro xs on my checkmate enchanter that I'm seriously thinking about putting on the GS for the summer. Now I need a good mechanic, any recommendations?

[whipper]

WOW that sucks!! plastic oil injection worm gear is wear I would look first. BTW Slap that 225XS on her thats a wicked combo for her. Im sure someone will know were in MN to take the motor that will chime in. Since you put 4k into her I would be taking it back to the person who rebuilt it first.

[H20WKD]

How do I know the trim is right....my limiter is sitting next to me and will sound the alarm...:eek::eek:

We run on some pretty big water, (Erie and the upper Niagara), so I enjoy quick more than fast. It's rare to get the glass to run on for the top end numbers. But it sure is fun leaving the big fast ones to 60+ when the opportunity arrises. ;)
http://i60.tinypic.com/mhpont.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/1zck6mf.jpg

24p Trophy Plus, heavy & towing water toys. Neck snapper with two-up.


Hydromotive
14 3/4'" X 26 R QIV OT.....best all around, two-up, moderate load...no attempt at saving weight. Great hole shot even if a bit heavy. 84mph best. 4.5-5mpg cruising @ 3500.
http://i61.tinypic.com/2a98s8z.jpg

14 3/4" X 28 R QIV OT....tad over 90, 1/4 above a stock pad, with the limiter gagged, and the same moderate load 1/2+ gas. Need a bit more solo seat time here.:thumbsup:

[kj mac]

H20WKD...... Nice looking boat !! I have the same limiter on mine. LOL.

I called the shop that did the rebuild for me on my promax and they told me I was S.O.L. Now I'm wondering about the pro xs on the boat, the motor has a torque master gear case on it and I don't know if the boat will handle alright with the moter set deep enough to keep safe water pressure. Any suggestions ?