Evinrude.com

[Greg Moss]

Check it on Wednesday the 12 of Feb. They are going to show their idea of the future of the outboard. this is the email I just got Imagine outboard engines years beyond 2-stroke, 4-stroke or even direct injection.

Well, they?re coming.

Learn about this revolution in outboard technology on the brand new Evinrude.com web site Wednesday night, February 12.

[Alan Power]

Just came on to post the same thing! Looks like ya beat me to it:D

Wonder what it is?
Turbine maybe? Nuclear power? Any idea?

Alan...

[wing nut]

this has got to be huge if johnson/evinrude wants to get a better reputation! i just hope its good, like a turbo 4stroke (but very light) or a very efficent 2stroke :)

scott

[mk30h]

Well if it an't a 2 stroke, it ain't a four stroke, and it ain't a DFI what is it. A rebadged Suski 250 FS - no it's beyond a Four Stroke. Doesn't leave much else - Rotary? Turbine?

So maybe this will get Merc to say a bit more about X. Maybe thats the idea.

[BarryStrawn]

Maybe they will take three Rotax twins, stack them up and weld 'em together to make an inline six. Oh wait, Charlie Strang did that for crazy Carl back in the fifties. But it would run pretty good.:D

[Markus]

Well, since Bomb supposedly have managed to make Evinrudes and Johnsons that do not blow up, a non-DFI, non-4 stroke non-2-stroke outboard would be a lesser miracle. ;)

[Instigator]

am sworn to secrecy :D

Believe it is two stroke but with totally new, never seen before induction system.

If it's what I heard, the word "revolutionary" is an accurate description.

[Laker]

Right, Rumor is the induction system is like nothing ever seen.

Could this be it? Doesnt look like a production cowling to me.

[Markus]

This sounds great!

Instigator/Laker: Is this the thing that was never released during the fall?

[Instigator]

actually not sure, but don't think so.

first thing was one specific model (my info) that was making equal to or greater than current HP's of any current motor, w/rev limiter and factory warranty etc. (course the 2nd might be part of what made the first??)

believe this to be something way beyond what anyone has seen, technoligy wise.

that's the story I heard.

Bombardier has the background, technoligy and pocket book to totaly turn the market upside down if they decide to.

If I read correctly, their current 2 stroke PWC rocket though less HP's is the baddest SOB out, even comapred to the new blown 4 strokes:eek:
Their goal (atleast stated) has been to kick ass and take names with 2 strokes in O/B's.
They had a full page add in one of the last Bass/Walleye (I think) mags basically challenging any 2 stroke out to a one on one test.
They targeted Yammi, but includued every one.
Called the "superiority marketting" of the four stroke pure B.S. (not in those exact words :D )
Listed every test and stated that their current Ficht technoligy beat all the hype.
If this "announcment/release" is what I think it is, this might be just what we need;)

I heard from a couple of people who have been around this sport all of there life, and they all said, "**** they've never seen or heard of before"

Lets "ALL" keep our fingers crossed!
Gary

[Backfire]

Does this sound revolutionary?
No carburator, no reeds-just no nothing out front, pressure oil system, did I mention no intake ports?, Ficht fuel injection, Ficht type pressure variable air injection with variable purge ports (exhaust ports), computor runs it all, kinda dial a horse power to what ever the boost pressure needs to be. We got till Wednesday midnight to come up with a name for the "system" before we hear what Bomb's name will be.
S.C.R.A.M. Sequence Computer Run Absolute Motor . tm
Backfire ;)

[Instigator]

and that sounds close to the very "vague" info I got.

Can you say, "holy **** bat man!" ?
Well I knew that you could:D

[Capt.Insane-o]

Could it be? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. I bet, I saw an airplane engine that a guy has been messing around where the fuel supply is vaporized before entering the intake manifold, he would'nt lead on to much but was very happy with the power increase and totally jubilant about fuel usage. Kind of a reverse ficht/ opti deal, the fuel vapor was injected right into the manifold and i don't believe there were any throttle plates. :confused:

[Laker]

Think Aurora?:D not the car.....

[wing nut]

Originally posted by Backfire
Does this sound revolutionary?
No carburator, no reeds-just no nothing out front, pressure oil system, did I mention no intake ports?, Ficht fuel injection, Ficht type pressure variable air injection with variable purge ports (exhaust ports), computor runs it all, kinda dial a horse power to what ever the boost pressure needs to be. We got till Wednesday midnight to come up with a name for the "system" before we hear what Bomb's name will be.
S.C.R.A.M. Sequence Computer Run Absolute Motor . tm
Backfire ;)

if all thats true (unless im reading something wrong) this new engine sounds like its gonna be awsome!

[Backfire]

Two and three cylinder models first, 100 hours to a gallon of oil. So quiet you can hear a pin drop. Remarkable engines. Lucky ones get to run them tomorrow, Lessor folks in the following days.
Backfire ;)

[scott reierson]

Instigator,

Thanks for the tip!

What web site address do we go to to see the unvieling? I've been hearing that Merc is coming out with a blown inline OB. Any info on that other than what I saw in Bass and Walleye?

Iv'e been hearing rumors that the inline merc go go 400+Hp anybody heard? I haven''t been on the board for awhile.

PS

All my buddies are jealous of that yellow t shirt you sold me at Jasper. Some guys told me I even look better in it than Bill Gore does in his. (Don't tell Bill I said that)

Scott

[Markus]

Scott, the Project X Mercs will initially be offered in the 135-250 hp range, but Merc. people claim that they have been able to get a lot more power out of the design. What you saw in B&WB pretty much summarizes the info that is floating around.

At Evinrude.com, there is a count-down timer, so I guess that is where to go.

Backfire, this sounds great! About the oil thing: Does anyone remember the 1:1000 claims Merc. made when they launched the first DFI motors?

[Instigator]

Being an OMC and two stroke guy, been there done that too damn many times!

Scott on the Merc, I talked to a guy who ran one and said it ran equal to or better than any 2 stroke of similar HP's and that yes they were claiming and easy 400 HP.
The only thing about that, how many times has Merc "pre-released" something that eithter never materialized or only a short production run before halting them??
With the vail of secrecy, and the amount of time they've been talking about that motor, I'd be suspicious.

On the pending Bomardier news, I can't stop thinking about one thing.
CARS!!
Does anybody remember when Chrysler and Ford were in joint ventures with Merc and OMC in 2 stroke R&D for cars??
They got very close, but not quite.
If this thing actually works, and the technoligy transfers to automotive??????;)
We might have a bit more lobbying power, and for sure a **** pile more development funds for our toys!!

Everybody keep your fingers crossed!!
This could end up being something that the rights are sold to competive companies for.
Does everybody know and realise that the first I/O's and the first Duo Prop I/O's were both Volvo pattens that Merc paid to have acces to??
Maybe we aint dead after all:eek:
Gary

[Instigator]

http://www.evinrude.com/evinrude/web/jsp/mainPage.jsp?Params=N.US.100000.0

[Markus]

Now the countdown has stopped on the Evinrude site. I hope this is not being pulled at the last second like the 275+ hp FICHT...

[Laker]

Its working......
I just checked it.. 4 hours 39 min 38 seconds...
Duno how they work the time zone thing with the net tho...

[sho305]

I'm not finding the clock. Just a new 200HO and a new 250, but says little about them. Does say more news soon....:confused:

[BarryStrawn]

The big news looks to be a new name for a refined Ficht. New buzzword is E-Tec.

And I was hoping for an inline six that would actually run.:(

[Greg Moss]

And E-TEC it is No pictures just a press release. Oh boy!:rolleyes:

[wing nut]

Originally posted by Greg Moss
And E-TEC it is No pictures just a press release. Oh boy!:rolleyes:

theres pics.. but no pics of under the hood..

scott

[Paul]

Check back again, there are photos and info. Hope they put it on snowmobiles soon.

[airide18]

Looks like they really did there research on those engines,but there is so much plastic around the midsection!!!!

[Travis Fulton]

about the time i just start to learn something about outboards of today they go and do something like this!:D and throw me back another 20 years!!!

[sho305]

Link: http://www.evinrude.com/evinrude/e-tec/
http://www.evinrude.com/evinrude/e-tec/media/jpg_lrg/st_cutaway_lrg.jpg

[airide18]

And you know thats got to be one hard to work on engine!!!!

[sho305]

Can't you read? "E-TEC engines will be the first outboard engines to require no scheduled dealer maintenance for three years"

:D :D :D Jes' kiddin! :cool: I could only dream something like that to be true....but you never know. Bomb knows about motors.:cool:

[airide18]

Of course,they've gotta say somtin ta make people buy em.:D

[sho305]

I like this part even better!!

"By model year 2005, the entire Evinrude line will feature E-TEC. Because of the compact size and reduced weight of these engines, boat builders will have more options in the way they build their transoms, and consumers will have more options in powering their boats. "

We will see. (r-e-d-u-c-e-d w-e-i-g-h-t:D :D :D )

[airide18]

What do they mean by"will be a difference in the way boat builders build there transoms"?

[H2Onut]

Pretty Freakin cool

[B.Leonard]

Just as I thought... might as well have been a quieter, smoother line of generators :rolleyes:

I'm confused about the use of the word "stratified". I remember when Ford played around with that and it went nowhere. I don't think that is what they are talking about here. Somebody just wanted a fancy word because it makes no sense whatsoever in the E-tec description :rolleyes:

DFI, 600lb, $15k+ outboards.... man I love my crossflows :D Don't even get me started on the 4 strokes :rolleyes:

-BL

[mk30h]

I was born white merc in my blood- but these engines may cause me to have a transfusion.

I think they have scored a big hit here. Makes the Merc Opti look like something developed in Detroit in the late 70's. Looks like Evirude will keep the 2 stroke flame alive.
I was wondering why there was no 3 cyl. engine in the 2003 line up - now I know.

Honda should be worried.

pics of the 75 and cutaway of a 50.

[mk30h]

50 hp

[airide18]

I wonder when they will post engine specs?????????

[B.Leonard]

Merc got shut down on the first date with the hot Ms. Ficht and had to call up Wilma Opti Max..

Pathetic. Nothing like being forced to marry your second choice. LOL!!!

Just as OMC knew along, orbital injection is a joke (too complicated). That's why Yammy didn't go orbital.

:D

-BL

[mk30h]

I think Yam's is very similar to opt- but this isn't fitch either- its new( i think)

[B.Leonard]

Yammi is high psi DFI. Different altogether.

I think E-Tec is Ficht with better engine controls. They just wanted to dump the past bad OMC Karma once and for all. :rolleyes:

-BL

[Gerben]

Is this system very different to the TOHATSU TLDi system?
See things that look the same, can someone shed some light on this. I see a throttle plate mentioned, do is there still air passing through the crankcase with the e-tec system (like tldi) ?

Story is the same, hp-range is the same. Wouldn't be the first time companies shrug together.

Gerben

[sho305]

My take was they pressure feed the crank/rods with oil, and likely a small controlled amount escapes for the rings, and burns in the hot fire. They cut the noise down, and tuned up the Ficht/chamber for cleaner burn. Many have said the Ficht was the better system of DFI, maybe they can wring more out of it.

Bomb has to be one of the most diverse and most advanced 2 stroke engine makers. For them to copy or side up with anyone else would be hard to see. For them to not advance here would be a surprise, though it may take some time to get it going. Note the comments about simplicity, few parts, less upkeep, less weight, etc. If they go to an alternate induction other than crankcase, there will be more parts.

Looks like it isn't a rotary....;)

[racer]

It is not a ficht injector turned up. The injector is new and operates totally different and is capable of higher rpm and more precise fuel delivery. It has been in the works for some time now. Because its pulse rate is much quicker they will be easily able to meet three star ratings.

[Laker]

Actually its quite impressive.
Of course I was hoping for a Racing motor.. LOL
Styling alone, it represents a awesome leap forward. MUCH better than the bulky bubbles everyone else is producing! NVH control seems to be quite impressive also!! I cant wait to learn more!! Cant Wait to see one!
Can we get plant tours in strutivant?!!:D :D

[Steve Reist]

I'm headed to the St. Louis boat show Fri. Will let ya know if I
find out any more. Hope to talk to some reps.-Might be able
to see them up close. Anybody else going? Steve

[Capt.Insane-o]

I could'nt resist.:D I wonder if that's a o-ringed chain???

[Markus]

Seems like next generation FICHT to me. And not totally unexpected that they would be lighter than 4-strokes.


Racer: How is the injector different from the latest implementation of the FICHT injector (which is completely different from the original East German FICHT design)

Gerben: This is completely different from Tohatsu TLDI. Tohatsu licenses the same Orbital technology that Merc. licenses

B. Leonard: If OMC had stayed with Orbital, they may have still been in business. In the long run, FICHT/FICHT RAM/E-TEC may well be more promising, though.

[B.Leonard]

Some dumb french blonde in marketing wrote that description of "stratified" :D

You can turn the outboard you have now into a "stratified" charge motor. Just run it low on water psi at WOT for a few seconds. Heat builds up in the cumb-chamber and the air/fuel charge will stratify, causing all the octane to move away from the resulting hot spots. Then... BOOM :D

The challenge with stratified charge was getting the charge to burn not explode in those spots and they attempted that by igniting a richer section of the chamber and producing a bigger flame front that hopefully would over come the lean spots in the stratified charge.

:rolleyes:

-BL

PS Here is a good URL that describes the most common combustion processes and none of them are new at all. It is kind of emissions oriented.

http://www.alvar-engine.se/disc.htm

The best air/fuel charge for power is a lean, well homogenized mixture. Keeping it well homogenized up to the point of ignition is the challenge :D and even/high pressure cooling plays a big factor.

[sosmerc]

I too am very interested in getting more detailed information on these new engines. One thing that does stand out to me is they claim it will run if you have a dead battery. In that case, they must have developed an ecu and associated fuel and ignition system that can run off of a flywheel/ADI setup. They talk about taking the system down to smaller hp so I assume this includes manual start models. If this all works well we can praise Bomb. for adding new life to 2 strokes.
The part about no service required for 3 years is pretty humorous...how can any of us learn to keep our "hands off" anything for three years when most of us start our day of boating with the cowl off and end it with the cowl off!:D

[tomthorp]

SOSMERC, How can this possibly be Ficht? I thought Ficht required a separate Higher voltage electical system for the Ficht injectors. I also note they are using a 25 amp alternator. Could this possibly be some form of OCP, with a simplified ECM?

Thanks Tom

[sosmerc]

Hi Tom!
Well, we can always hope. Just not enough info released to be able to tell. But if it's air-assisted you need some kind of compressor and I don't see evidence of that (unless it's something run off the crank). Yet the info said "no gears or belts".
Time will tell. The motor sure looks good on paper.

[tomthorp]

SOS, I remember in one of OE's patents, the compressed air could come from compressed gasses from the 1st compression stroke of the engine. This , I believe was originally meant for initial starting, but I believe could be used thru out the engine operation. I don't think the gasoline requires clean air for the OCP process to work. BTW , what is that vertical cylindrical object just forward of the engine? A giant capacitor or a compressed air cylinder? It shows up clearly in the cutaway view.

Tom

[tomthorp]

US6164268: Pressurizing a gas injection type fuel injection system


Country: US United States of America


Inventor: Worth, David Richard; Shenton Park, Australia
Schnepple, Thomas; Wembley, Australia
Price, Stuart Graham; Kensington, Australia
Malss, Stephen Reinhard; Woodvale, Australia

High
Resolution
Low
Resolution


14 pages


Assignee: Orbital Engine Company (Australia) Pty Ltd., Balcatta, Australia
other patents from ORBITAL ENGINE COMPANY (AUSTRALIA) PTY. LTD. (approx. 108)
News, Profiles, Stocks and More about this company


Published / Filed: Dec. 26, 2000 / March 8, 1999


Application Number: US1999000147480


IPC Code: F02M 23/00;


ECLA Code: F02M67/02; F02M67/04; F02M69/08;


U.S. Class: Current: 123/533; 123/179.17; 123/179.18;
Original: 123/533; 123/179.17; 123/179.18;


Field of Search: 123/533,534,532,531,179.17,179.18 239/533.2


Priority Number: July 10, 1996 AU1996000000950






Abstract:
Disclosed is a method of operating an internal combustion engine (20) with a fuel injection system (11;12) including an injector (12) for delivery of a fuel-gas mixture to a combustion chamber (60) of the engine (20). The engine (20) includes a gas supply system (11;13) pressurized at start-up through a pump-up sequence to a desired pressure for injection of fuel to the engine (20). In the pump-up sequence, the injector (12) is opened allowing pressurized gas to flow from the combustion chamber (60) through the injector (12) and into the gas supply system (11;13). This pressurizes the gas supply system (11;13) when pressure in the combustion chamber (60) is higher than the pressure in the gas supply system (11;13).


Attorney, Agent or Firm: Arent Fox Kintner Plotkin & Kahn, PLLC ;


Primary / Assistant Examiners: Yuen, Henry C.; Gimie, Mahmoud M.


INPADOC Legal Status: Show legal status actions


Designated Country: AL AM AP AZ BA BB BG BR BY CH CN CU CZ DK EE ES FI GE GH HU IL IS KE KG KP KR KZ LC LK LR LS AT DE FR GB IT


Family: Show 15 known family members


First Claim: Show all 37 claims
The claims defining the invention are as follows:
1. A method of operating an internal combustion engine having a fuel injection system including at least one injector means to deliver fuel entrained in a gas directly to a combustion chamber of the engine, and a gas supply system in communication with the injector means to provide gas thereto, said method including rendering the injector means of at least one combustion chamber open over at least first and second engine cylinder cycles during engine start-up to thereby deliver compressed gas from said combustion chamber through the injector means to the gas supply system wherein said rendering of said injector means open over said second engine cylinder cycle is timed to occur later in said second engine cylinder cycle than in said first engine cylinder cycle whereby the pressure in said at least one combustion chamber of the engine is substantially the same as or higher than the pressure in the gas supply system.

[sosmerc]

Yes, and I do know that Optimax uses initial cranking revolutions to "capture" some cylinder pressure to get things going and assist the compressor in reaching the necessary running pressure.

[Markus]

B. Leonard,

All literature I have ever read about combustion engine design claims that best air/fuel ratio for power (but not best fuel efficiency) is a slightly (approximately 10%) rich mixture.

[sho305]

I think some of that rich mixture thing is from our low tech engines. That fights detonation and cools the chamber more, so you can run more compression and timing for more power. The DI eliminates detonation because the fuel is not there yet, so higher compression can be used like a diesel does. At least that is the simple theory. Funny cars don't have DI yet....but BMW has a throttle-less engine now. Of course cars don't change unless the government or foriegn competition is kicking them hard.:rolleyes:

[Backfire]

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=0&f=S&l=50&TERM1=fuel+injection&FIELD1=&co1=AND&TERM2=outboard&FIELD2=&d=PG01
Here's a source of interesting reading. I hope we don't have to wait for a Popular Science article to get the details. The cut away doesn't explain much. OK, now that the news has broken , how about a some of you inside moles add to the story! These engines were run for the government including V-6s on kerosene and or jet fuel. Because you can start them, hand crank-no battery, they were the only engine that is able to do that, that's why they got the contract to supply all O/Bs for the gov that is eliminating all gasoline powered everything. Who knows the Marines maybe have pre-production models on the other side of the world right now.
Backfire ;)

[sho305]

There is some good reading there for sure. Some of it seems to be hogwash. I read one about an airbox that has a valve connecting two plenums to change the volume for high/low rpms. Gee, just like on my 1992 taurus sho...that came out in 1989. This patent was dated 12-12-02 and at the bottom it said it could be applied to automobiles. DUH! Maybe I should patent a device that tells time and you attach it to your wrist....:)

[racer]

Markus, The injector operates more like a radio speeker I have been told and does not require the added voltage of the ficht injector. I was told this several months back but believe it to still be true. As for charging capacity remember these are small engines that generally have smaller output.

[mercmack]

any body been to the Miami boatshow and brought back any pictures of the new engines...Project X, Suzuki V6 or the E-tecs? lakes all frz and its starting to snow and i.m going nuts.

[Backfire]

Remember on alternater output, that as I understand it on these engines, the engine consumes very little compared to other DFIs. The subject engine 40 & 50 hp 2 cylinder, that's a healthy output.
Backfire ;)