Mariner 225hp Supermagnum oil / fuel mixing ratio ?

[seang1010]

Hello Everyone, I'm new to the forum and new to high performance boating. I have owned and operated boats for over 25 years but have never owned a high performace outboard until now. I just bought a 225 HP Mariner Super Magnum engine from a dealer in TN. They could not tell me much about the motor so I thought I would bring my question here. There seems to be alot of knowlegable folks on here. I am just trying to find out for sure what oil / fuel mixture I should be running o this motor. All I really know about it is this. It is a 1997 Mariner 225hp Supermax. It has great compression and is virtually all the same on all cylinders. It has some sort of performance velocity stacks going into the carbs. Has low water pick-up lower unit. It runs and idles like new and also sounds like a drag boat motor. This is all I know about it. The technician at the boat dealer that I got it from told me that it most likely needs a higher than 50 to 1 oil mixture ratio, but he wasn't sure. I have taken the boat out one time and I mixed the fuel at a 40 to 1 ratio. Am I in the right ballpark? Please help! Thanks in advance for any information.:confused:

[tux974]

Welcome aboard, you came to the right site with lots of talented members and we will try to help you, just ask away about anything you are not sure about!!
40:1 is correct.....higher than 50:1 not unless it has new internal, pistons, rings, bearings, honing etc and you are breaking it in.
You mentioned SuperMag/SuperMax that should be an (EFI) lazer fuel injection system motor.
Sounds like someone changed it out to carbs, not a bad thing but I would wonder what else might have been done.

[ally01]

Im in Arkansas. Sent you a PM

[tux974]

There you go, Steve (Ally01) knows these motors and should be able to check things out for you plus help you with your concerns! If he doesn't come back and let us know....;):D

[Jay Smith]

I have great luck with the Pennzoil blends available at Wally world mixed at 40:1 in all the Pro Max /Super mags I build.. ( Building 2 of these this week )

Welcome to Scream and Fly !!!

Jay

[jdewaard]

Just in case you don't know this, the Super Magnum is the same motor as a Mercury Pro Max just a different color!!!

Just like what tux and Jay said. I have a 225 Pro Max and I pre-mix 40:1 with the Pennzoil BLEND. Works great. Just don't use full synthetic in a steel bore motor like the Pro Max or Super Magnum.

[seang1010]

Hello Guys, Thanks for getting back to me so quick. I really appreciate it. I went into wally world tonight to get some of the Penzoil outboard oil you recommended and they had a two types. One of them was a XLF blend (extended life formula). Which one the blends do I need to get?

[jdewaard]

Either is fine, I run the XLF. If you have an older motor the XLF (Extended Life Formula) is the one recommended.

[tux974]

I'm an older person so maybe I should change and start drinking the XLF stuff.....heck, it may help me live longer..:reddevil::D
I usually drink extra, extra virgin olive oil...:D

[jdewaard]

I'm an older person so maybe I should change and start drinking the XLF stuff.....heck, it may help me live longer..:reddevil::D
I usually drink extra, extra virgin olive oil...:D

The XLF stuff is cheaper per gallon than that olive oil.:D

[olboatman]

Just in case you don't know this, the Super Magnum is the same motor as a Mercury Pro Max just a different color!!!

Just like what tux and Jay said. I have a 225 Pro Max and I pre-mix 40:1 with the Pennzoil BLEND. Works great. Just don't use full synthetic in a steel bore motor like the Pro Max or Super Magnum.

jdewaard What is the reason for not using full synthetic in steel bore motors-- Or do you mean in those paticular motors ? I have been using Klotz R-50 in my 2cyl steel bores for some time. Thanks in advance Gary

[jdewaard]

Gary, for a full explanation of why not to use full synthetic in a steel bore you would have to ask someone like Jay Smith. I don't know the exact reason but it has been stated many times on the forum and I just never asked why, I just listened. :D

[Forkin' Crazy]

Never had any problems running 100% synthetic in my OMC steel bore motors. :eek: Uh oh! ;)

[olboatman]

Never had any problems running 100% synthetic in my OMC steel bore motors. :eek: Uh oh! ;)
Thanks for the reply jdwaard. Forkin I also have been using 100% syn. in my 89 200hp Mariner offshore motor! Maybe we should ask Jay to chime in or start a new thread. Gary

[jdewaard]

One thing I do know is that you never want to use a full synthetic or even a blend for break in on a steel bore. The steel bore neds some friction during break in for the rings to seal properly, after break in I don't know why they recommend a blend and not full synthetic. I would like to know also just for the knowledge.

[tux974]

I think it is more about creating a coating with some friction to the bore instead of a total slip surface that you would want on a nic bore to some what protect the coating.
NOTE: I'm no pro so take what I'm saying as an opinion...:eek::D
I have used both with good results but in the last 6 years have switched and run Merc blend on steel. 100 on nic and blend on steel has been working well for me but would not hesitate to run any of them on either bore!
Personally I think most oils now days are pretty good to use and the important thing is to run the correct ratio.

[olboatman]

[QUOTE=jdewaard;2596623]One thing I do know is that you never want to use a full synthetic or even a blend for break in on a steel bore. The steel bore neds some friction during break in for the rings to seal properly, after break in I don't know why they recommend a blend and not full synthetic. I would like to know also just for the knowledge.[/QUOTE :iagree: Thats how I have always broke them in. Gary

[rev.ronnie]

Not to be argumentative, but how many millions of snowmobiles are running 100% synthetic on a iron bore? (They are actually iron liners, not steel, there is a big-ass difference) All of mine, that's for sure. As far as break-in on synthetic, I know it's not accepted practice....but.... I never feel like draining out the injection tanks and purging the system, so I've ran 100% synthetic on every snowmobile engine I've built in the last 25+ years. Every one runs like a watch. I compression test and bore scope them regularly too. Zero issues.

I know some people think there is some sort of difference between a snowmobile engine VS a marine engine but I'm not buying it. A two stroke is a two stroke. The only difference in the oil is the pour point on some.

If people think a marine two stroke somehow runs at a different temp, they are seriously confused. The only difference is the incoming air temp and the temp that they start up at while cold.

I remember asking the Klotz tech guy about the difference between their Ski Craft, and snowmobile oil... The guy replied "the label"..

[tux974]

rev.ronnie, not to continue with this or get into a peepee contest but since you run a Merc have you posed that question to them? Especially while break in. Could it make a MAJOR difference maybe yes or maybe no....If you do or if you already did please report back!
I will agree just run what has worked for you and you are happy with!!

[Forkin' Crazy]

Not to be argumentative, but how many millions of snowmobiles are running 100% synthetic on a iron bore? (They are actually iron liners, not steel, there is a big-ass difference) All of mine, that's for sure. As far as break-in on synthetic, I know it's not accepted practice....but.... I never feel like draining out the injection tanks and purging the system, so I've ran 100% synthetic on every snowmobile engine I've built in the last 25+ years. Every one runs like a watch. I compression test and bore scope them regularly too. Zero issues.

I know some people think there is some sort of difference between a snowmobile engine VS a marine engine but I'm not buying it. A two stroke is a two stroke. The only difference in the oil is the pour point on some.

If people think a marine two stroke somehow runs at a different temp, they are seriously confused. The only difference is the incoming air temp and the temp that they start up at while cold.

I remember asking the Klotz tech guy about the difference between their Ski Craft, and snowmobile oil... The guy replied "the label"..

I had an old 78 RM 125 I redid and broke in with a synthetic blend. I think it had more to do with the quality hone job then anything. I sold the bike to a guy that is racing it in vintage motocross.

[rev.ronnie]

rev.ronnie, not to continue with this or get into a peepee contest but since you run a Merc have you posed that question to them? Especially while break in. Could it make a MAJOR difference maybe yes or maybe no....If you do or if you already did please report back!
I will agree just run what has worked for you and you are happy with!!

I wouldn't really know who to ask at mercury... It would be cool to know what an actual engineer thinks, and more importantly, their reasoning.

The last Merc I built with an iron bore and Wiseco pistons got premium plus from day one. She runs like a watch. My 200 with a plated bore will go the same way.

I do pay very close attention to detail and cylinder finish when I bore/hone them though. The correct plateau finish is paramount. Too smooth and they will glaze and have poor compression. Too rough and they will beat the rings and make heat. The surface has to have the correct RZ, RPK and RA finish to ensure proper oil retention for correct ring function and seal. Remember, the ring has to transfer heat and seal compression.

On blocks I bore for customers, I just tell them run whatever oil you're going to run in it for life. If you want to start with a mineral and switch to a semi or full syn, great, but I don think it's mandatory.
My "break in schedule" has more to do with the number of heat cycles and not the number of tanks full of fuel you run. This differers from the status quo as well.

They sell brand new vehicles of all types with two strokes that have synthetic from the factory. Many cars do as well.

Proper cylinder wall finish is the most important thing IMO. Fortunately, I have 100% control over that.

[rev.ronnie]

I had an old 78 RM 125 I redid and broke in with a synthetic blend. I think it had more to do with the quality hone job then anything. I sold the bike to a guy that is racing it in vintage motocross.

I have bored a lot of cylinders for guys who run those vintage classes. Old Maico, KTM, Husky, Can Am, Penton etc. many of them do run synthetics right off the bat, some even run castor. No problems.
One guy with a Can Am recently called me back after a rebore asking "what the hell did you do to that thing?" He thought I had ported it or something because it totally raged compared to before the fresh top end. I told him, that thing has been getting weak on you slowly for the last 25 years, you just didn't notice :) now you got it back all at once.

[tlwjkw]

Gary, for a full explanation of why not to use full synthetic in a steel bore you would have to ask someone like Jay Smith. I don't know the exact reason but it has been stated many times on the forum and I just never asked why, I just listened. :D

There is tha full syn or blend or dino answer in this statement. Its been said so many times on tha internet that it has ta be tha truth. I've yet ta see any actual experimentation to tha point of provin' one is better than tha other with different type sleeve. Think it all got started a long time ago with a end of tha day ramp, lets finish tha beer, party. I just can't buy "this motor is wore out cause of tha "blend, dino, full syn. and wrong type a sleeve" THEORY........I can see where ya might wanna run tha best possible in tha big rpm motors, steel or coated. Just some thought, whatcha think they run in great big steel sleeve fuel, alcohol car motored ( 3000 ta 8000+ hp) drag boats? And ya see what kinda "break in" they get. Oil is oil, 2 or 4 stroke. So I'm like some. Ya gotta "show", me not just whisper in my ear!..........jmo

[Capt.Insane-o]

I'd just get a sh*t ton of Wesson and burn that ****.

[tlwjkw]

My "bride" really gets on my ass when I try ta steal that outta her kitchen!

[tux974]

rev. ronnie, call and asked to be called back by a tech from Mercury racing, you will not get them on the phone the first call.
Premium blend is not full synthetic is a blend and I would use that while break in with no problem.

BTW, like I have mentioned on previous threads...I personally like and use extra virgin olive oil because it raises my HDL, smells better, smokes less and burns cleaner...;):D

[MStine06]

There is an individual on this thread that always said run NOTHING BUT Pennzoil 100% synthetic oil in nic AND steel sleeve motors. Preached that to everyone for years... then in a day span it went from synthetic is the best in steel sleeve motors to it is the worst for steel sleeve motors. I do know a 225 steel sleeve motor that when sold had 323 hours on it with synthetic oil run through it. Its still running strong with many more hours on it...

As always... ask 10 different people and get 10 different answers, and in this case different answers from the same person!

[rev.ronnie]

I have never had an oil related failure on anything. I have had component failure that has had the secondary damage minimized by running good oil and lubes though. That said, I've never hurt a piston or bearing on an outboard.

Any time I've fried a snowmobile piston, there has been a timing or jetting issue....it's been my fault. No oil in the world is gonna help that.

I will I'll say, I have been a big Klotz user for 30 years on my snowmobiles. The first "issue" I have seen so far is that the power valves in my Polaris were a little gummed/coked up. The pistons and rings are perfect, just the valves gummed. The cylinders are clean where they go in as well. This is the first sled I've had with exhaust valves though, so I'll just keep cleaning them periodically.

I should try some used turkey frying oil...the exhaust would smell like thanksgiving.