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Dixon Smith
02-08-2014, 10:14 AM
You may recognize this hydro from the boats for sale here, it belonged to Steve Smith out of KY. I haven't weighed it, but Steve claimed 245#. The power will come from a rocket engine that will produce 6250 H.P. for five seconds. If five seconds seems like too short of run time, click the link for a demo of the same power in a car on a drag strip. The same thrust pushed a car to 343.5 KPH (213 MPH) in 2.5 seconds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDDI5h8JQE0 The thrust is produced simply by super heating water way past its boiling point, 467 degrees F will create 500 PSI in a tank. When a valve is opened to atmosphere, the water will instantly flash into steam and expand 1600 times it's volume. The steam, directed through a 66mm nozzle will exceed the speed of sound (1500 FPS) and produce 3000 lbs of thrust. The tank will be designed for a burst pressure of 3000 psi, a working pressure of 1500 psi and it will never see over 500 psi for safety. The tank body and ends will be made from .125" chromoly (4130N) and will be hydro tested before use. At this time I'm thinking there may not be a single wire, switch or battery, just air operated valves that open and close a single moving part. The cost of heating the water should only be around ten dollars and the thousandth run will be identical to the first with nothing losing compression or needing maintenance. I'll post more details in the near future.


291961 291962

Jim Morris
02-08-2014, 10:29 AM
where do you plan to test it?

speedinstream
02-08-2014, 11:03 AM
Can u kill the power if things go aray

Murph
02-08-2014, 11:14 AM
Cool Project.
Subscribed to this thread.

rock
02-08-2014, 11:25 AM
Good luck.

Hot Shot Merc
02-08-2014, 11:26 AM
Thats CRAZY!!! Good luck and be safe.

Mr. Demeanor
02-08-2014, 11:27 AM
You will have the "green" motor record!

scawd the dog
02-08-2014, 01:32 PM
Holy Smokes !!!!:eek: Hang on!!!!:cheers:

Dixon Smith
02-08-2014, 02:12 PM
For some reason the few people that have used super heated water for rocket power, use 470 degrees F (500 PSI). As water is heated in a pressurized container beyond that point, things start to happen quite quickly. Here is a table of for temp/pressure of super heated water; http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/saturated-steam-properties-d_273.html Notice that at 705 degrees the pressure is 3,200 PSI. I have plans to construct a smaller test tank and see what these higher pressures and temps do for thrust. Of the small number of people that have used this process for rocket power, here is a link to a guy that is planning an "Evel Knievel" type, stunt jump some time in the future. There are three tests of his steam rocket from one-quarter power to two-thirds power. http://www.madmikehughes.com/RocketPropulsion.html I'm thinking one quarter would be 125 PSI and two-thirds would be two-thirds of five hundred PSI or 330 PSI. The beauty of this rocket would be the fact that you can start off at a low pressure, anything above 212 F will start building pressure. As for the question of being able to shut it off, the air operated valve will work easily in both directions. I plan on doing several tests with the hydro safely tied down to the trailer before trying it on the water. The rocket tank will be tied in to several points, including the transom, of course, with right-left hand rods that can be pre-loaded to avoid shock to the boat. Notice how jumpy the guys are that are testing their rocket as they start to get above 1/4 pressure. At 1/4 pressure they simply walk up and trigger it by hand, but at higher pressures they cautiously try to open the valve with a long rod. In my hydro project, the tank will be directly behind my back with a thin aluminum fire wall to separate me from the rocket. As scary as it sounds, chromoly tubing with high strength rod ends have much more strength than should be needed to hold it in place. (a 3/4" 4130 rod end has a breaking strength of 26,000 lbs.)

DS77
02-08-2014, 02:28 PM
Keep us informed Dixon i know you can make it work. will it be safe? how safe is a 245lb. hydro with a 350 HP. drag & another 300 hp 2stage nitro kit. anytime we climb in one of these big boy toys you know a certain amount of safety stayed behind at the ramp. Peace steve

tux974
02-08-2014, 03:38 PM
Very cool and crazy project! I enjoy watching and listening to people that think out of the box! GL and be safe!
Subscribed.

86Savage
02-08-2014, 03:49 PM
Very cool! Scary fast! Wind and water would have to be perfect tho!

Robby321
02-08-2014, 03:59 PM
That boat LOOKS like it needs a rocket motor! I remember back late 60's either Owsego Ill, or Union Grove Wi dragstrip. All exhibition rides. There was a twin SMALL rocket engine Gokart!
It didn't start out too fast, but seems 30 feet out it was HANG ON! I can't remember the trap speed, but he shut it off early as a short W/B kart gets awful squirrely past 100! Funny too as also there was the "other "Michigan Madman", EJ Potter on the Chevy V-8 dragbike!

Best of luck and fun the new project.;):thumbsup:..(have to go back and see the links now!)

baja200merk
02-08-2014, 04:08 PM
Thats nuts...

Dave Strong
02-08-2014, 04:10 PM
Should be interesting.


Dave

JPEROG
02-08-2014, 05:16 PM
DARE DEVIL DIXON-enough said

If anyone can figure the load pressures and stress points I am sure its you, but I hope you go two or three times that so this thing doesn't come through the back gate and take you for a ride like a raging bull headed for the moon.

Gottta love a genius with balls the size of yours Dixon.

Joe

Freddie Webb
02-08-2014, 05:33 PM
Nice work Dixon, can't wait to see it run.

delawarerick
02-08-2014, 05:46 PM
WOW good luck looks wicked:thumbsup:

Dixon Smith
02-08-2014, 05:54 PM
I saw on TV awhile back, the specs for a top fuel hydro. The average weight was 3,500#. My rig will be around 500# so I'm afraid that those big top end speed numbers will be 'iffy'. The asphalt rocket guys tip the rocket at 3 1/2 degrees or so to hold the car on the track. If I angle the rocket to keep the boat down, it would probably be okay until the thrust stopped, but then what? The top fuel hydros seem right on the edge at 250 MPH as it is, trying the same speed with a fraction of the weight would probably be disastrous. I'm thinking the angle of the boat in the water just before launch should be the same as the angle it will be at at high speed. Just by not having a heavy motor hanging outside the transom and putting all the weight much farther forward the static angle should be about right as it is. More later.

olboatman
02-08-2014, 06:13 PM
Great Project!!:thumbsup: for thinkin wayyyy out of the box! Just wonderin if the hull has been tested ? Best of luck.;) Gary

Robby321
02-08-2014, 07:05 PM
Dixon, I have one question. What will be the source of heating the water in the tank once mounted in the boat?

Also a fan of "the power of steam"! And those vids of "Mad Mike" are fantastic!

Also came up with a PERFECT name for the boat........"Pressure Cooker".....! HA!:p:thumbsup:

Adam McKeon
02-08-2014, 07:43 PM
Horrible idea.... Please dont put a human in that thing. It may go 200 in 2-3 seconds , but it will be out of shape in .3

JPEROG
02-08-2014, 08:02 PM
Adam,

Save your breath-I have watched this guy with so much crazy stuff over the years. I agree 100% (how the hell are you going to stop the steam when your pinned like this thing potentially will) and if goes up or gets even a touch off course then?? It will be interesting to see where he decides to test this thing because you need flat water and a massive open span distance that are seldom ever seen together.

He is a brilliant guy and will go at with different levels of testing but the day that it gets full power is???

Joe

jdewaard
02-08-2014, 08:06 PM
Good luck Dixon!!!! This is a cool project!!!:thumbsup: You have to let us know where and when you are going to test/run it. I would love to come see that!!!:eek:

timmc6
02-08-2014, 11:54 PM
You sir are a wimp. EVERY thing you might "drive now"..WAS CREATED BY people like this, RIGHT? And probably never did zip but "buy it", from one who simple designed and built too? And you can NEVER take credit the build, set up, when you open the wallet. And say.."look at me"?. "Now"?...(just did yer attitude and its useless spit in the face to me, Dixon , those "pioneers who started" ANY thing you simple you probably bought.. nuff me...be nice and positive, or shut up...
ADAM I will ride with you!!!!:eek:

Adam McKeon
02-09-2014, 07:20 AM
You sir are a wimp. EVERY thing you might "drive now"..WAS CREATED BY people like this, RIGHT? And probably never did zip but "buy it", from one who simple designed and built too? And you can NEVER take credit the build, set up, when you open the wallet. And say.."look at me"?. "Now"?...(just did yer attitude and its useless spit in the face to me, Dixon , those "pioneers who started" ANY thing you simple you probably bought.. nuff me...be nice and positive, or shut up.... Robby you are awesome, So awesome that I would personally like to nominate YOU as the cheif pilot of the Acme Rocket Boat. You can tell me all about how right you were after your first pass. Myself & all your friends that helped you write that fabulous post ( Jim, Jack, and Jose ) will all be cheering for you!

Im very content in standing alone w/ my humble opinion. My original response may have not been as polished as one may hope but it is what it is. Carry on

Da Bull
02-09-2014, 07:39 AM
I was wondering what the goal is for this project? Is there a record for this type of propulsion?



DB

That's Right
02-09-2014, 07:47 AM
"Pressure Cooker" indeed. Subscribed

BUZZIN' DOZEN
02-09-2014, 07:58 AM
the Acme Rocket Boat Ha ha!, I LOL'd over that one!:D
http://www.jasperfforde.com/toad/images/acme.jpg

Kcraft
02-09-2014, 08:46 AM
You sir are a wimp...be nice and positive, or shut up...

Maybe you should take your own advise Pal ! :nonod:

Subscribed :D

hometown45
02-09-2014, 09:06 AM
This is a very interesting concept. I hope you have a patent lawyer involved already.

outasite
02-09-2014, 09:38 AM
I'm on board with the concept,however right now the math is not working.Im sure you will get a lot of questions,But I don't see a .125 tank of any reasonable size being capable of passing 3000psi hydro test.Very small pressure vessels (scuba tanks)are 3/8/to1/2 inch thick and are a drawn from one piece,no welds.Im sure you know that super heated water is a very real bomb.When a case steam tractor blew in Ohio on 250psi steam,it killed five and injured over fifty.Please proceed!--WITH CAUTION------I am not negative on this post just cautious,I've seen the power of steam first hand.

olboatman
02-09-2014, 10:23 AM
The feedback about this project could be as interesting as the project. Regardless of ones opinion everyone has to admit there are some very intelligent and knowledgable posts. Another reason S+F is such a great site---we learn every day! Gary

donmac
02-09-2014, 10:36 AM
did I see 6250 hp for 5 sec. that shouldn't leave any doubt as to top end number!I'd say that's going to need a gyro and computer controlled front aileron to keep it in level flight! it's just too short of a hull for human reaction time!I'll be the first to admit, I'm not getting in it!

1FASTLASER
02-09-2014, 10:43 AM
WAY outta my intelligence capacity but I have to watch this to see where it ends. I've dealt with high pressure steam and seen what it CAN do

Dixon Smith
02-09-2014, 10:53 AM
I'm on board with the concept,however right now the math is not working.Im sure you will get a lot of questions,But I don't see a .125 tank of any reasonable size being capable of passing 3000psi hydro test.Very small pressure vessels (scuba tanks)are 3/8/to1/2 inch thick and are a drawn from one piece,no welds.Im sure you know that super heated water is a very real bomb.When a case steam tractor blew in Ohio on 250psi steam,it killed five and injured over fifty.Please proceed!--WITH CAUTION------I am not negative on this post just cautious,I've seen the power of steam first hand.

Here is a calculator for burst strength of pipe/tube; http://www.engineersedge.com/pipe_bust_calc.htm Plug in 16" diameter, .125 wall, 97200 ultimate tensile strength and safety factor. There is no 1.0 for safety factor so I used 2.0, then doubled it for actual. I bought the plate from an aircraft supplier, and asked for certification papers, that is where I got the tensile strength. I have a friend that owns a boiler company and he said if a tank can pass a hydro test 50% over the pressure it will see in use, that is acceptable for code. My tank would only have to pass a test at 750 PSI, but it will be tested at possibly double that pressure. Fortunately chromoly and also mild steel have almost the same tensile strength at 500 F as they do at room temp. Shortly after that strength fades quite fast, at 700 F tensile strength drops by around 15-20%. I have great respect for the possible dangers with superheated water, watch this link, Mythbusters block off pressure relief valve on hot water heater; https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mythbusters%20hot%20water%20heater&sm=1 My first experience with steam is still fixed in my head after I put my hand in front of a teakettle at fourteen. Safety will be number one priority.

Dixon Smith
02-09-2014, 11:01 AM
Dixon, I have one question. What will be the source of heating the water in the tank once mounted in the boat?

Also a fan of "the power of steam"! And those vids of "Mad Mike" are fantastic!

Also came up with a PERFECT name for the boat........"Pressure Cooker".....! HA!:p:thumbsup:

I have kicked around several heating methods and at the moment I am heading in the direction of electrical heating elements, say ten elements of 5000 watts each, mounted near the tank bottom using a 50 KW generator for power. It should take around 40 minutes to heat forty gallons water from 70 F to 450 F. this would probably be the simplest way. I have a 50 KW generator in the repair shop at this time, if it is beyond fixing, I'll probably look for a 100 KW which would cut heating time in half.

1FASTLASER
02-09-2014, 11:04 AM
Mr Dixon. Question if you will. I have seen first hand and repaired the end result of what steam can do to carbon steel and various grades of stainless. Just out of curiosity what material would be used for the pressure relief nozzle or exhaust point?

Dixon Smith
02-09-2014, 11:36 AM
Mr Dixon. Question if you will. I have seen first hand and repaired the end result of what steam can do to carbon steel and various grades of stainless. Just out of curiosity what material would be used for the pressure relief nozzle or exhaust point?

The relief valves will be multiple and should never see steam or heat, only pressure. The exhaust nozzle will be either 316 or 304 stainless. The stainless rocket nozzle will only see a couple of seconds of steam, heat and pressure at a time. Feel free to tell me more about real world problems you have seen with steam affecting various materials.

afr
02-09-2014, 01:28 PM
You may recognize this hydro from the boats for sale here, it belonged to Steve Smith out of KY. I haven't weighed it, but Steve claimed 245#. The power will come from a rocket engine that will produce 6250 H.P. for five seconds. If five seconds seems like too short of run time, click the link for a demo of the same power in a car on a drag strip. The same thrust pushed a car to 343.5 KPH (213 MPH) in 2.5 seconds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDDI5h8JQE0 The thrust is produced simply by super heating water way past its boiling point, 467 degrees F will create 500 PSI in a tank. When a valve is opened to atmosphere, the water will instantly flash into steam and expand 1600 times it's volume. The steam, directed through a 66mm nozzle will exceed the speed of sound (1500 FPS) and produce 3000 lbs of thrust. The tank will be designed for a burst pressure of 3000 psi, a working pressure of 1500 psi and it will never see over 500 psi for safety. The tank body and ends will be made from .125" chromoly (4130N) and will be hydro tested before use. At this time I'm thinking there may not be a single wire, switch or battery, just air operated valves that open and close a single moving part. The cost of heating the water should only be around ten dollars and the thousandth run will be identical to the first with nothing losing compression or needing maintenance. I'll post more details in the near future.


291961 291962
wow this sounds doable for u very cool subscribed

dnelson964
02-09-2014, 01:40 PM
Yikes ! Sounds like the 'Fun' vs. 'Safety' scale is tipped way the wrong way on this one. Be safe and and if any doubt don't. GL

Dixon Smith
02-09-2014, 02:11 PM
I have met with a few 1/4 mile asphalt rocket drivers over the years and was told by one that he drove a six second fuel car (normal time for the time period, the seventy's) and a six second license pass in a rocket car. The top fuel car was a handful due to engine torque and chassis flexing, while he six second rocket ride was comparable to a drive down the highway. No torqueing, no vibrations and very little steering. He said if the vehicle is aligned right at the start, it will go almost perfectly straight. On his slow six second license pass, as he was returning down the return road, spectators clapped and he could hardly look at them because he felt he hadn't done anything special. As you get into the fives things began to get more intense and the four second runs rattle a person for a week or so. I met with a guy named Larry Flikenger out of Maryland that was the first person to break into the three second bracket while also breaking over four hundred MPH on the same run. I believe 3.56 @ 386 MPH is a dragstrip record, but a woman named Kitty O'Neil went 3.22 in the quarter mile on the salt flats. As you increase G's, you lose peripheral vision until it looks like you are driving down a long tube with light at the end. The more G force, the smaller the tube until the point of losing consciousness. It seems everyone has a different ability for G force so easing into it makes sense. The finish line of an asphalt quarter mile is a small window, but a hydro run on a flat, open water lake should be pretty easy as long as there is no boat traffic and there is plenty of room for shut down.

Forkin' Crazy
02-09-2014, 02:24 PM
Mr. Smith, I can't tell if you're crazy or ingenious! Maybe a bit of both! :D


If five seconds seems like too short of run time,

Actually that sounds a bit long!!! :eek: So this has a true safety capsule?

As far as a generator, I've rented 65 and 75KW units and they aren't that expensive.

I wish you luck!

outasite
02-09-2014, 03:00 PM
Here is a calculator for burst strength of pipe/tube; http://www.engineersedge.com/pipe_bust_calc.htm Plug in 16" diameter, .125 wall, 97200 ultimate tensile strength and safety factor. There is no 1.0 for safety factor so I used 2.0, then doubled it for actual. I bought the plate from an aircraft supplier, and asked for certification papers, that is where I got the tensile strength. I have a friend that owns a boiler company and he said if a tank can pass a hydro test 50% over the pressure it will see in use, that is acceptable for code. My tank would only have to pass a test at 750 PSI, but it will be tested at possibly double that pressure. Fortunately chromoly and also mild steel have almost the same tensile strength at 500 F as they do at room temp. Shortly after that strength fades quite fast, at 700 F tensile strength drops by around 15-20%. I have great respect for the possible dangers with superheated water, watch this link, Mythbusters block off pressure relief valve on hot water heater; https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mythbusters%20hot%20water%20heater&sm=1 My first experience with steam is still fixed in my head after I put my hand in front of a teakettle at fourteen. Safety will be number one priority.
Dixon,I just had a conversation with Dick Austin today about your project,he speaks highly of you.He said your going to do some EDM work on his main bearing races for his project.Sounds like you have a solid background for your new project.Best of luck with it!!! Bob

Rayzor
02-09-2014, 05:07 PM
Although I do think you are crazy to even be thinking about this project (seeing as almost everyone that has driven a similar jet propelled boat has died), I'm not going to question your choice of propulsion. However, I do question your choice of boat to put such type of propulsion in. Why would you choose an unproven, LITTLE toy of a hydro to put such incredible thrust in? Does it even have a safety capsule, as in the pics it doesn't look as if it has a "real" capsule (where/how do you get in it?). Why would you not go with a larger, proven drag design such as the current Ellison or Dunn outrigger hydros? IMO, you may be a genius and be able to safely put out any amount of thrust you'd like with your rocket engine, but it's not going to do you any good in that little "toy" of a boat. I'll go ahead and be the outspoken one on here and tell you that your "ultimate project" is 100% guaranteed to end up an "ultimate failure" with that choice of boat. Please reconsider what you are planning on doing, and if you can't afford the correct boat/capsule to correctly even have a chance of harnessing the incredible thrust you are describing, then wait until you can..........I would hate to see another performance boater lost chasing a dream.

JPEROG
02-09-2014, 07:37 PM
Dale,

He can afford anything he wants-money is not of concern in anyway. Read post 16, 22, and 23. I consider Dixon a friend and have a great deal of respect for his intellect, ability to make money, his mechanical wizardry and engineering processed mind. However, he likes the edge and likes to push things to the edge every time. He is a great guy and nobody is interested in another death-the fact that this project can go bad so quick- its like a gun accident "you can't correct it once the trigger is pulled". Its all fun until someone dies-I agree with your outspokenness.

Joe

DS77
02-09-2014, 08:00 PM
Razor,i built my first Hydro when i was 16 these are not kit boats these are my babies start to finish .where do u get toys or unproven. please if u would like call me about this project or hydros in general i would really enjoy tapping into your vast knowledge on hydros ,we will break it down as far as u can go i thinking not far please prove me wrong. steve DS77

Rayzor
02-09-2014, 09:25 PM
Razor,i built my first Hydro when i was 16 these are not kit boats these are my babies start to finish .where do u get toys or unproven. please if u would like call me about this project or hydros in general i would really enjoy tapping into your vast knowledge on hydros ,we will break it down as far as u can go i thinking not far please prove me wrong. steve DS77

Mr. Smith, I certainly meant no disrespect toward the boat you built, and I don't doubt that for the typical propulsion setup you build them for, they work great. However; when a member posts on here that they plan on putting one of the world's most powerful propulsion devices ever seen on the water (performance boat application) in one of them - I consider it a "toy" for the application. I have been at the LODBRA World Finals 3 times in the last 5 years and have not seen one of your boats there (am I mistaken, and they were actually there and I didn't notice?). Since the OP is talking about going after acceleration records with this rig, I'm considering it a drag boat - and would only surmise that using a proven hull would be a prudent place to start. I often refer to my inboard Skater 30 as a "baby" Skater, even though it is an excellent boat for smaller hp applications. I sure as hell would never recommend someone go put a pair of 3,500hp T-56 gas turbines in it and go after a top speed record though! I certainly do not have near the knowledge of hydroplane design as you do, but I can tell you that the combination you guys are putting together isn't going to work.......

And time will tell who is correct - I just hope this project doesn't end in tragedy.

1FASTLASER
02-10-2014, 05:16 AM
The relief valves will be multiple and should never see steam or heat, only pressure. The exhaust nozzle will be either 316 or 304 stainless. The stainless rocket nozzle will only see a couple of seconds of steam, heat and pressure at a time. Feel free to tell me more about real world problems you have seen with steam affecting various materials.
Mr Dixon ... I'm 53 yrs old and for the last 20 or so years dealt with steam and high pressures under so called controed systems. Though different type systems yours and what I dealt with that is both where designed for power. Steam is a very VERY powerful source of power no matter how you arrive at it. My reason for asking what was your thought on the material being used came from I have seen first hand what steam is capable of if it is not held within the system. Literally seen steam at pressures of 600 lbs cut the flange facing of a flange designed to handle said pressures made out of 317/317L stainless in a matter of minutes. Now I can't help but think in your case you would have to step up the material simply because your pressures would be 3 or more times that therefore accelerating the end result of anything going awry. To top that off the inherent effect of steam actuall moving ( ever cut SS with a plasarc and watch it move as the heat travels through it) the exhaust point or any other item in your system. As I stated I'm no engineer but real life hands on working has taught me some wild issues for lack of better word what pressurized steam is capable of. I won't even go into what I've seen happen to a co worker or workers on SEVERAL occasions from the release of high pressure steam for whatever reason.. Be it wrong place wrong time... Wrong working procedures and/ or material failure

1FASTLASER
02-10-2014, 05:31 AM
I should have stated that I am not downing you on your thoughts on this project..... Hence the reason for my first post. The engineering of a steam powered power source is above my pay grade.. Little humor there.... but was curious about what material you where considering using. In my opinion if a leak happened somewhere in the system I am sure 304 would NOT handle it. I would be skeptical with 317/317L. High pressure steam would cut 304 in a matter of a few short seconds. We always upgrade from 304 flanges and fittings and pipe and go to at least 317/317L seamless when the pressures are above 300. In other cases with higher steam values no we are talking titanium, inconel and have even used A20 SS which the cost is unreal. A 12" piece of 4" seamless .250 wall A20 is over $1000

DS77
02-10-2014, 06:15 AM
the mind is a wonderful thing,life is a great journey,when we quite searching 4 the new and say it can't be done i think its time to call the ol under taker. PS my brothers name is Orville and the Wright bros. will positively never fly. steve

Forkin' Crazy
02-10-2014, 10:11 AM
The power will come from a rocket engine that will produce 6250 H.P. for five seconds. If five seconds seems like too short of run time, click the link for a demo of the same power in a car on a drag strip. The same thrust pushed a car to 343.5 KPH (213 MPH) in 2.5 seconds.


Does it even have a safety capsule, as in the pics it doesn't look as if it has a "real" capsule (where/how do you get in it?). Why would you not go with a larger, proven drag design such as the current Ellison or Dunn outrigger hydros? IMO, you may be a genius and be able to safely put out any amount of thrust you'd like with your rocket engine

No disrespect to anyone here, but I have to agree with that Dale said, especially on the safety capsule. That doesn't appear to be one from what I've seen.

So the rear "glass" panel also functions as a hatch?

afr
02-10-2014, 11:06 AM
is this what u guys are talking about for power ??
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3321-steam-fires-underwater-jet-engine.html#.Uvj4qoXSmW8

http://www.tfd.chalmers.se/~valeri/Ajax/steam_jet.html (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3321-steam-fires-underwater-jet-engine.html#.Uvj4qoXSmW8)

outasite
02-10-2014, 02:00 PM
AFR,I believe Mr Smith plans to use a true rocket engine.The fuel being water.Water cannot be heated to more than 212F at sea level,it will just boil away.However if you contain it you can heat it much hotter.As the temp rises so does the pressure in the containment vessel,so that at ,say 450F the pressure may be 5-600PSI that pressure in itself wont do much.The real power comes when you release the superheated water back to ambient pressure.Then it will instantly flash boil,and expand at a rate of about 1600 to one.This is a sort of explosion.If this is directed through a nozzle of sort,a huge amount of thrust is crehated!!! So you want to be pointed the right direction when you pull the trigger!!!

Mr. Demeanor
02-10-2014, 02:23 PM
Make it radio controlled

Dixon Smith
02-10-2014, 03:51 PM
No disrespect to anyone here, but I have to agree with that Dale said, especially on the safety capsule. That doesn't appear to be one from what I've seen.

So the rear "glass" panel also functions as a hatch?

At this time there is no capsule. The smoked polycarbonate rear panel was a temporary fix to protect the hydro's interior from weather. The boat wasn't completely finished when I bought it from Steve and has never been run. I will be building a hinged entry hatch soon. If anyone has info about adding a capsule at the point this hydro is at now, please explain what would be involved.

afr
02-10-2014, 04:26 PM
you got a few options all involve cutting
https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1/1508019_10201341551122934_1495287620_n.jpg
if these will fit even
boat racing classifieds has these
https://www.facebook.com/groups/219669138108943/

DS77
02-10-2014, 04:44 PM
Dixion call me when your ready 2 put the cell in the combings are 21" apart so the cell should slide right in

Dave S
02-10-2014, 07:56 PM
Just a youngling chicken here...... I would find a small cheep old Hydro.....many out there and try a run with a bunchofbrick first. A pull string to fire it and fixed fins on the sponsons to keep it somewhat in one direction. Cheep life insurance. Can ya EDM on a + side? I need .001 added to a Main bearing...OSide

Rayzor
02-10-2014, 08:41 PM
At this time there is no capsule. The smoked polycarbonate rear panel was a temporary fix to protect the hydro's interior from weather. The boat wasn't completely finished when I bought it from Steve and has never been run. I will be building a hinged entry hatch soon. If anyone has info about adding a capsule at the point this hydro is at now, please explain what would be involved.

http://bulletfiberglass.com/

Do yourself a favor and research your options before actually proceeding with your project. Jim and Brien Dunn are currently producing the world's quickest/fastest (and possibly safest) drag race hydroplanes in existence (Problem Child, Whiskey River). Dan Ellison started the trend to outrigger hydros (Toxic Rocket, Liquid Quicker) in drag racing, but is no longer building those specific type boats. Just stuffing a breakaway capsule in that little hydro you have will not make it the right boat for your project.........

JPEROG
02-10-2014, 09:38 PM
No matter what hull you end up going with Dixon, the comment above about having a remote operated shut off sounds like a great idea. I am sure you can design a servo strong enough to operate the "life gate" valve that you need to control. Put the radio transmitter in the hands of the person that you trust the most as they watch from the chase boat or shore.

Joe

Freddie Webb
02-10-2014, 09:54 PM
Fast laser do you work in a coal fired plant? I've only worked around high pressure steam for 16 years. We run at 1000 degrees and 2400psi throttle pressure. Steam is amazing what it can do. What amazes me is we have steam samples on 1/4" stainless steel tubing.

Dixon Smith
02-11-2014, 08:28 AM
Fast laser do you work in a coal fired plant? I've only worked around high pressure steam for 16 years. We run at 1000 degrees and 2400psi throttle pressure. Steam is amazing what it can do. What amazes me is we have steam samples on 1/4" stainless steel tubing.

Clarify what you mean about having 'steam samples on 1/4" ss tubing'. Again, the system I plan on using won't ever see over 500 psi or 470 F.

Mr. Demeanor
02-11-2014, 11:32 AM
Let Mr. Dixon tell us about HIS project.....thanks....no need to comment on this post.

Forkin' Crazy
02-11-2014, 11:49 AM
At this time there is no capsule. The smoked polycarbonate rear panel was a temporary fix to protect the hydro's interior from weather. The boat wasn't completely finished when I bought it from Steve and has never been run. I will be building a hinged entry hatch soon. If anyone has info about adding a capsule at the point this hydro is at now, please explain what would be involved.

Thanks for your reply. Mr. Steve Smith sure builds a nice piece. Looks like it's hauling butt sitting still!


Let Mr. Dixon tell us about HIS project.....thanks....no need to comment on this post.

Nothing wrong with a comment, question, or discussion, but this petty bickering needs to go! :nonod: Maybe an Admin will clean it up...?

1FASTLASER
02-11-2014, 07:32 PM
Fast laser do you work in a coal fired plant? I've only worked around high pressure steam for 16 years. We run at 1000 degrees and 2400psi throttle pressure. Steam is amazing what it can do. What amazes me is we have steam samples on 1/4" stainless steel tubing.
No sir never done work at a coal fired ant. My experience with steam and it's pressures materials weld procedures etc etc is from repiping complete steam and condensate systems in various plants including lots of work in turbine powered energy power plants. My comments where to help Mr Dixon in his selection of correct materials if by chance he was not well adversed on the correct procedures and materials so as to be as safe as possible and hopefully have a successful attempt at this. I beleive it's possible if all things are considered and controlled properly

H2OPERF
02-11-2014, 09:07 PM
Needs a ballistic chute, what if the nozzle valve sticks open .

Aqua Nut
02-12-2014, 11:36 AM
Best of luck. subscribed :)

ZHenderson84
02-12-2014, 03:33 PM
Hit tha gas n hold on

Dave S
02-12-2014, 08:06 PM
Hey ZH.... what year comp ya got?????? Got one tooo....

Chaz
02-12-2014, 09:00 PM
Nothing wrong with a comment, question, or discussion, but this petty bickering needs to go! :nonod: Maybe an Admin will clean it up...?

Actually they did clean up the reaction .. :rolleyes:

It's nice to see that the offensive post # 25 got cleaned up by the author .. :thumbsup:

I'll stick with my original comment , Dixon , if it were me, I'd go with Hydrogen Peroxide. I couldn't wait 40 minutes for the water to boil , and it would all turn to water in the end either way .. ;) :D

Dixon Smith
02-13-2014, 10:18 AM
On this particular thread I welcome any comments positive or negative. I appreciate those of you that stick up for me when you feel there is a negative post, but I'm a veteran of the old street racer parking lot, constant picking on each other til the wee hours. There was a saying about those days, if you had thin skin you would go home early, and I'd be one of the last to leave. With that said, here is a good video of a model rocket three point hydro. Watch the holeshot at the 1:43 mark---wow! A rudder failure near the end causes the hydro to crash. I'd like to talk with these guys and see how much actual steering they had to do on a run. I'm wondering if they wouldn't have been better off without a rudder of even the ability to steer it, as crazy as that sounds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0Kfl1kqTXA

tux974
02-13-2014, 10:35 AM
On this particular thread I welcome any comments positive or negative. I appreciate those of you that stick up for me when you feel there is a negative post, but I'm a veteran of the old street racer parking lot, constant picking on each other til the wee hours. There was a saying about those days, if you had thin skin you would go home early, and I'd be one of the last to leave. With that said, here is a good video of a model rocket three point hydro. Watch the holeshot at the 1:43 mark---wow! A rudder failure near the end causes the hydro to crash. I'd like to talk with these guys and see how much actual steering they had to do on a run. I'm wondering if they wouldn't have been better off without a rudder of even the ability to steer it, as crazy as that sounds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0Kfl1kqTXA

Great attitude and nice to see you are embracing both side of an opinion! Heck you can get killed crossing a street or even walking on a sidewalk!! :eek: Hopefully everything goes as planned if you proceed if it does not at least you knew the consequences and enjoying what you were doing!....GL either way :thumbsup:

BUZZIN' DOZEN
02-13-2014, 09:12 PM
but I'm a veteran of the old street racer
Woodward ave. and I hope MOPAR!?

BUZZIN' DOZEN
02-13-2014, 09:30 PM
Hemi's are the chit, but I love hearin' the ole Max wedge stories, my dad had a 64 Dodge w/426 wedge

Dave Strong
02-13-2014, 09:38 PM
The Hemi is a cool motor, way ahead of its time. The new LS motor is getting pretty impressive.

Dave

Dixon Smith
02-15-2014, 09:52 AM
292347292349292350292351292353
Woodward ave. and I hope MOPAR!?

Here's a few pics of my last street car (which I still have). The body is a 75 Honda Civic that I acquired in '76 with a bad motor. The motor was a '64 Ford hi-riser out of a Thunderbolt. I suppose there will be a few of you face palming when you hear the "F" word, but the 427 sure served me well in my street racing days. Injection was Hilborn, trans was a clutch in front of a C-6 auto trans, run of either race gas or methanol, depending on the occasion. Notice in the close up of the motor, I made all four pulleys with extra deep belt grooves, then used a reversible power window motor to raise and lower an arm with an idler pulley. The end result was a large R/V fan (and water pump) that ran almost twice engine speed for good cooling on the street with a small radiator, then the arm was lowered just prior to a race, where the motor pulley would be the only one spinning. Keep in mind this was in '76-'78 before electric water pumps did pretty much the same thing.

Dixon Smith
02-15-2014, 09:58 AM
292354Here's a better shot of the car from the rear. For whatever reason the wheelie bars weren't on in the picture.

Quinten
02-15-2014, 10:34 AM
On this particular thread I welcome any comments positive or negative. I appreciate those of you that stick up for me when you feel there is a negative post, but I'm a veteran of the old street racer parking lot, constant picking on each other til the wee hours. There was a saying about those days, if you had thin skin you would go home early, and I'd be one of the last to leave. With that said, here is a good video of a model rocket three point hydro. Watch the holeshot at the 1:43 mark---wow! A rudder failure near the end causes the hydro to crash. I'd like to talk with these guys and see how much actual steering they had to do on a run. I'm wondering if they wouldn't have been better off without a rudder of even the ability to steer it, as crazy as that sounds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0Kfl1kqTXA

Not to make any light of the guys efforts in the vid, but I did find it kind of amusing. There was barely a word uttered in the footage, then at the end, the boat in pieces, he says, "hmm." Too funny.

Robby321
02-15-2014, 03:39 PM
292354Here's a better shot of the car from the rear. For whatever reason the wheelie bars weren't on in the picture.


Damn...thats jaw dropping ..WICKED COOL!:thumbsup:

Robby321
02-15-2014, 11:04 PM
Dixon, ...(Thanks the PMs, got two back at ya)...but I met these guys here S.I.R.raceway, (now new owners and sucks, Pacific raceway) at a "old school bike, gassers, what ya got, BRING it! ....events. Yakked these 2 old farts..(I'd PM ya this, but maybe needed here more, spank the youth.."not bought..BUILT). Anyway..I have more pix then somewhere here, but this will suffice for now. Kids, any can buy fast, but to build it? Thats the fun part! Here ya go Dixon, and a link these "old farts" first..

http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/hdrp_0603_1962_vw_bus/ PLEASE don't comment the run together text!...as not me!

Pix..(last one EJ Potter, the "other "Michigan Madman!. Dixon? GO FOR it..(and for those who do not know, Dixon was born in 1948, me 1950, and guys like this?.."My "mentors in youth".........and many here (not all of course) were still in diapers when I was in Nam 69, and sad ya missed the "muscle car era". Up close and personal.


292406292407292408

Schramer
02-16-2014, 12:42 AM
I'm confused on why people think that they need to tell a VETERAN to be safe and that he has a bad idea and/or is making a mistake!?!?!? The way I look at it is, if he does his research to accomplish this amazing creation, successfully, then he should have our complete support for his creativeness in innovation and ideas because he knows damn well what he is getting himself into! The way this country is headed, it is almost frowned upon to initiate something that moves us in a forward direction regardless of how many can prosper from the "genius" of one's crazy ideas to the fact that it may only make one person on the "internet" smile, is almost unthinkable. I applaud your determination Dixon....hell my friends tell me that I am nuts in trying the stupid stuff that I attempt but I continue on in my pursuit for the chance to join, or possibly beat, the elite with my limited budget and resources because it makes me happy, and whatever playing field you are on, you should do the same! Chit....if you don't want to drive this beast on the 1st run I will, and I would be honored to do so!!!!

Robby321
02-17-2014, 11:44 PM
Guys, I been emailing Dixon side here. Trust me..as he's no stupid kid. Those some here, ever read this "thread" him?..Link..

http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?279800-Drag-motor-on-a-hydro&highlight=draqg+motor+on+a+hydro

If it was thought of and many never even a "twinkle in dads eye"..looking mom. or still in diapers? Stuff that can't be done?..Dixon has done it!;):D:thumbsup:

Dixon Smith
02-23-2014, 09:59 AM
I am posting a link that shows the performance of a rocket car that was adapted to skis for a shot at a world record on ice. The common practice for fuel amount is simply use exactly the amount you need for the distance you plan on running. The early rocket cars made the mistake of putting more than enough fuel in for the run and not being able to shut it down, ending in several deaths. This car was using 90% hydrogen peroxide for fuel and apparently used 28 gallons (@ $100/ gallon) for a five hundred foot run. I used to think hydrogen peroxide would provide a similar thrust as super heated water with less fuel weight at the starting line, but 90% peroxide weighs 40% more than water, so the starting weight would be about the same. If you scroll down in the link just past a woman kneeling on the ice, you will see a shot of the driver through the windshield. Read the performance specs just below that picture of this 500' run. http://www.vetechnet.com/rocketcar.htm 247 MPH in 1.6 seconds. The driver, Sammy Miller was a real pioneer in rocket cars and died in a construction accident.

Robby321
02-23-2014, 04:35 PM
Dixon, thats a great read! I can't even fathom acceleration like that! Had a laugh when saw this pic. All that engineering involved, but ya still need a hammer and a 2x4 for "final tweaking!"
292991

Robby321
02-23-2014, 08:21 PM
Damn! I still can't this in the brain..
"Slaminí Sammy Miller spectacular: officially 0 to 247.78 mph in 500 feet in 1.6 seconds?"

Dixon ya simple gotta go for the "fastest accelerating boat"..ever made. Got faith in ya. And kids? Me and Dixon been emailing each other.."stuff we done in life". I simple could NEVER even THINK of what he's designed and built. And he damn sure aint no "spring Chicken" anymore either! Born 2 years before me, and I'll be 64 soon? Dudes a wizard in my book. Dont cut this guy short...he knows his stuff!

On the other thread.."drag on a Hydro"? Well, there was a mention of some his "stuff" done in life. Like this PWC...Heres only 3 pix, but he sent me more the "build" and he's a master of saying.."the hell it can't be done". His machining skills ALONE are simple "NOT BOUGHT PARTS". But designed and BUILT! And all in his "shop"? Dixon, I ever get back the Midwest?..ya be on on my "bucket list", of "people you should meet in life" Pix the PWC..
293000
293001
293002

RBT
01-08-2015, 09:04 PM
Bump to the top

Robby321
01-08-2015, 09:49 PM
I've talked with Dixon before about this private, as much more. On the rocket boat he was building do NOT cut short this "Master's" skill and thinking. But been awhile and last heard (which he brought up to me private), cancer has got a hold on him. Im sure I have his addy in the house puter but have to look there. More later him if I can find out anything. But simple he got sick and tired S+F people saying "you will die doing this" as the no brains, no skill, no knowledge saying "it cant be done?" BS! The dude is a simple BRAIN, that says .."the hell it can't" Thanks for bringing these up. Let me see in I can contact him...Hope he's well..

Robby321
01-10-2015, 05:10 PM
Got this from Dixon today...

Robby, thanks for keeping me up on the S&F post. I've been through more treatments in the last year and everything is clear at this time. The treatment did it's job but the side effects were pretty rough. I'll try to keep you posted on developments.
Later,
Dixon

Freddie Webb
01-11-2015, 09:46 PM
Dixon so glad you are doing better. Can't wait to see the rocket boat go!

wanagofass
01-11-2015, 10:11 PM
Keep him motivated Robbie.

Robby321
01-11-2015, 10:43 PM
Keep him motivated Robbie.

I could not even TRY to get to his level on the "the hell it can't be done" "watch this". He could probably build a space shuttle in his shop, that worked better. Some the stuff he has built and sent me? WAY before his time thought. Simple "Mad Scientist" when alone in his shop..(or should say a FULL well equipped machine shop!..like how many here have a vertical massive boring machine that would take over any room ya own, and top out the roof for it) Can't be done? "call Dixon". He, (as me) never give up trying something diff, but theres no WAY, I could EVER do zip but me the "protege", to the "Mentor" him. And thats only email him, as never met personal. But he's one those crazy Midwest people I grew up with, and simple "well understood" ;):D:thumbsup: