Skater , motion , build questions .....

[dumbnfun2]

Always looking at boats and dreaming .... Mostly, and learning stuff ... So what goes into the floors of skaters and motions and I believe lightning made a few of these types of boats ... Around 20 to 25 ft ? Even talons ?? What's in the floors ? All of em hav wood ? Balsa ? Just askn questions and tryn to learn a bit ... :cheers:

[JPEROG]

Most of them have cockpit liners for the floor. They are solid laminate that's laid up on an insert mold. The difference is in the details ie.-core materials, number of bulkheads, running surface supports, and where they are located, materials used (glass, carbon, Kevlar, polyester or epoxy resins), lamination schedules, build process- sprayed chop, hand laid or vacuum bagged, how straight and well prepared the molds are, finish process and fillers, then it goes to the quality of rigging materials (and the major one that we physically see is the rigging detail and interior fit and finish). Most of the boats you are questioning are copied from a 21 and 24 skater so the center of gravity and hull design is old, tried and true. However, there are boats showing up with faster designs, lighter weights and faster speeds in recent times (Adams Argo for example).

If more people realized all of the variables and what to look for, there would be less companies making boats for sure. Too many buyers only know to look at the style and paint that covers it all up.

Joe

[dumbnfun2]

Aren't older skaters cored with balsa ? Basically what I'm askin is are these type of boats just big expensive hydrostreams that will need total rehab or are some models better than others .... Which ones don't have wood I guess would b my question as well .

[JPEROG]

The key to balsa is keeping it sealed and dry-again build process and quality. Some of the new boats are using strictly composite materials and no wood i.e. Doug Wright and mystic. But I think you will be tough pressed to find an older one in the size range your looking for that is wood free.

Joe

[dumbnfun2]

I assume skater would b best in build quality ? How would u rank motion and talon ?

[BUZZIN' DOZEN]

A key part of the Skater boatbuilding equation is the use of balsa core materials which are manufactured by Baltek Corporation of Northvale N.J., which supplies a great majority of balsa used by boatbuilders the world over.The reasons for balsa's popularity are very simple: It is stronger in shear and compression than most commonly used core foams, as well as being lighter and cheaper.
We have experimented with every conceivable core material on the market, and have found balsa to serve our requirements better than the others"..............Peter Hledin

[Lake rat Skater]

I would say skater build quality is superior and you can tell as they have developed into a company that builds truly top notch performance boats. One thing I think people often forget though is that even skaters build quality has made improved with modern technology. In the early 90's they started vacume bagging boats and made the switch to epoxy resin which allowed for lighter but also stronger boats. Hince why many 28 skaters weigh the same or less that early 24's.

[tux974]

BUZZIN, good post!! :thumbsup:
IMPO, Skaters have been and continue to be the leader in building HP boats!! They have had their methods copied or should I say tried to be copied along with their technology over and over again! It is also a well proven product in some extreme conditions for many years, lets not forget the very important resale value that speaks volume to me......I know, I know your paying for the name....not!
There has to also be a reason why the hull designs have been copied by so many builders!!
It is very unfortunate that some have not provided the proper attention and very important sealing methods when drilling holes for rigging which ultimately gives the boat core a bad rap.
Lake rat, :iagree: and your are correct :thumbsup: My 28 came in at 1960lbs!

[dumbnfun2]

Thanks for all the info u guys I know it probly gets old answering dumb questions from new guys all day ...

Thanks buzzin ....

Thanks lake rat .....so the 90s ones and up is what u want ...

how would u guys rate motion ? R they bacumn bagged ? Where are they made ?

Where were skaters made ? Where they made today ?

[Lake rat Skater]

Motion's are not bad. They were built in Florida, Miami I believe. They were copies of 24 skaters that run about the same speeds as 24 skaters, maybe 3-5 mph slower. One good thing is they used aluminum tanks so no ethanol problems. Some of the light lay up 25 motions had issues with the hulls delaminating under the tank area. I'm pretty sure 25 motions were not vacume bagged.

Skaters have always been made in Douglas Michigan. They have an amazing facility and both times I was there I felt like a kid in a candy store. Peter Hledin founded skater and still runs the show to this day. He is a top notch guy.

[JPEROG]

I assume skater would b best in build quality ? How would u rank motion and talon ?

I have never owned a talon-but have been in and had have had a chance to drive 3 different 22s and the 25 that Randy had "skull boat"-I don't know the lamination process but they were not sloppy like a lot of others that I have seen. I have personally owned 6 skaters (have one now as well) and Pete has always built a good boat. I used to live 20 miles from his shop and have been there over a hundred times, I was also at his shop down on the river when he and his brother first got started with the 18 footers (enough to where I got an 18 as my first boat before I could drive a car). If I had a dollar for every time I heard him tell his guys "don't break the seal", I would be able to buy a new prop. The point being that when a hole is drilled, it needs to be chased with a resin brush to protect the core. The only other issue with balsa in comparison to some of the new high density composite core material is that it can get beat out (turn to powder) after years of abuse in high impact areas of the running surface-I have dealt with this on two of the six skater boats that I have had. As for the motions, I have never had one personally but I have had two spectres built by Jay and he too has always done a nice job in my opinion (I got a lot of *hit from Pete when I had those but they never broke and I had no issues). I now am racing a 32 and am good friends with Doug Wright and he has helped me a bunch on my current 24 skater project (the last 24 built (97) other then the (06) flat deck). Doug builds a very strong and very light boat that has proven itself non-stop. He and John Kosker (mystic powerboats) use all composite materials which also has its issues being drilled through for rigging but it doesn't rot like the balsa if it gets water intrusion.

Joe

[Lake rat Skater]

I now am racing a 32 and am good friends with Doug Wright and he has helped me a bunch on my current 24 skater project (the last 24 built (97) other then the (06) flat deck).

Joe[/QUOTE]

Any more details on your 24 project? was that the 24 on here for sale a year or so ago that way kinda of rough? And not to get to far of topic but didn't skater build a 24 with a single 300x in the early 2000's? I think that would make for a fun boat.

[JPEROG]

No-the one you are thinking of is the red and white with a single x motor correct?

[Chaz]

I bought a 25' Motion .. Does that mean I have a "Hialeah-Skater" .. :p
I got it after selling my 21' Superboat.
At first, I thought it was one of the worst mistakes I ever made.
It bow steered real bad. :cool: Found out pretty quick that it was me .. :)
It's still hops pretty bad .. :eek: Not for much longer .. ;)
There is as much lumber in it as a Home Depo ... :D
It's not build as good as my Superboat was ... :nonod:
Ive misjudged boat wakes with both .. neither boat tried to kill me , and sound the same upon impac ..err .. landing .. :o
I also didn't have to pay more for a used boat, than it cost when it was new .. :confused:
I run it mostly on the Indian River. But I have had it in the Keys , and up on the Suwanee , and I cant remember saying to myself (in a long time)... I wish I would have bought sumptin else .. or spent more money for it's pisan .. :thumbsup:

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc29/TubeCarz/20130914_123727_zps523234bc.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/TubeCarz/media/20130914_123727_zps523234bc.jpg.html)

[Markus]

There has to also be a reason why the hull designs have been copied by so many builders!!

The Skater hulls that are being copied the most (21,24,32) are definitely not Skater's best designs...

[Lake rat Skater]

No-the one you are thinking of is the red and white with a single x motor correct?


http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?195007-2003-24-Skater-w-300x-for-sale

Here it is, crazy price but im sure a great boat.

[JPEROG]

I forgot about that project. There were a lot of changes made in that process. I stand corrected in that the one that I am re-building was the last "standard 24" to come out of Douglas. Mine is a 97' -It was bought new by a guy in Texas that was diagnosed with a brain tumor as the boat was being completed. My brother bought it from his wife after he passed, then it was sold to a friend of ours in Michigan, then went to Jim Dixon who took the 20 in. 260's off and replaced them with 15 in. 280's, then it went to Louisiana and I found it on line and bought it site unseen.

We have replaced the tanks with composite ones that Doug Wright made for me, added a complete new internal running surface support system, added bulkhead structures and tied the deck in, molded a glass windscreen into the deck, closed the rear splash well in, added strakes to the front running surface to help with the typical low speed handling characteristics and help with mid-range acceleration, moved the strake location on the first step, closed the tunnel off at the rear and going forward 5 ft. to compensate for the additional wing surface that we have added to the front deck extension, and will be adding another interior strake like we did on our race boat. After all of this is done, I am going to run a set of Porta brackets it, get Mike at Fineline to do the interior, Randy is going to paint it, get some props from Dewald, and hope for the best.

Its a pretty serious makeover and should have just bought a nice 28. It will however be cool if I can get it run mid 20s with a pair of twins when all is said and done.

Joe

[Lake rat Skater]

That sounds like a fantastic project with a great group of people involved and with that amount of experience I'm sure you will have great performance numbers and a heck of a nice boat to show for it!

[JPEROG]

Time and money-too much of both, but nice 24s are few and far between. I think the fastest 24 twin has been 121 and Jim Dixon had this one at 119 10 years ago now. With the new 5 blades that are out now and the bottom being reconfigured, strengthened, and straightened, I hope to have it covered. The water that I run on down here (St. Johns river) is perfect for a 24 and I like the fact that they are a drivers boat. Anyone can get in a 28 or 32 and go, you put someone in a 24 with a pair of strong 280s and some cross chop of 1-3 ft. and it gets interesting.

I will do a thread with tons of pictures at some point when its done (if it works they way I am hoping).

Joe

[RUM RUNNER 305]

closed the tunnel off at the rear and going forward 5 ft. to compensate for the additional wing surface that we have added to the front deck extension

Joe Sounds like an interesting project.. Lets see some pictures!!!


It will however be cool if I can get it run mid 20s with a pair of twins

As in quads?

[JPEROG]

I will put a up thread and explanation of the project when it gets closer to completion. No "not quad" motors, we had a 24 with 3-260s on it and turning it at low speeds was bad enough. This one is being set up with 2 15 inch 280s and porta brackets.

Joe

[dumbnfun2]

I really appreciate all the info from all of y'all .... Thanks a lot I may never b fortunate enough to get a skater but u never know .... I know a good fiberglass guy .... Mayb one day I can find a older one to rehab .

I grew up in a car motor boat ... The first time I drove a hydrostream and had all that power hanging off the back of the boat I was hooked .... I will always hav an outboard .... And I can't help it I'm a sucker for rooster tails .... I know it's not faster that way but I can't help it it just looks to cool ....and I would die to hav a boat with twins .... I would like to hav a 24 they look like they are fun to drive .... Are the 28s and 32s still fun to drive ? I'm sure offshore it's fun but say water is flat are they still fun to air out and drive ? Is there enough power with just 2 motors ? 280s or 300x ? The weight of the 300s affect how it drives ?

[JPEROG]

Dumbnfun,

I don't even want to tell you this but: I just bought and sold an old 24 project boat to a friend of mine in Michigan for what you would spend on a 20 year old work truck. It has a pair of V8 omcs on it and was the old land and sea race boat. They are out there and if I see or hear of another one, I can give you a bump. Cheifcosta here on the board also sold one that was running complete for "I think" under 20K about 4 months ago, and the one in Michigan (on the board here) that had lamination issues at the rear of the tunnel (straight forward repair) was sold under value as well.

As for driving the 28 and 32, they are all fun but you feel much more at ease in the bigger ones than a 24 or 21. We have a 32 with 300x motors that gets run on most weekends and its a fun boat for sure (just under a hundred, reliable, and rarely have to let off for anything in the river)-they all air out and give you the rush and they all have the mid-range hop that you have to contend with. I like the 24 because its the closest thing to my old stv days but will still handle some water if you need to.

Joe

[dumbnfun2]

Yeah I meant to say probly never afford a new skater ......

but I had a 05 mirage totally taken apart and then put back and the money it took to put it together I probly coulda either had a new boat built or redid something bigger ... I had sold the mirage and was saving and looking but now I bought back the mirage .... So probly play with it for a while and sell it again .... Yeah I would love to find just a old skater hull and hav mr barsh work his magic on it for me .... Let me know if u ever run across anything .... I fig after I run the mirage a bit with the new powerhead a few times and get it right ill list it for sale and b in the market again for something different .

[tony97gt]

and I cant remember saying to myself (in a long time)... I wish I would have bought sumptin else .. or spent more money for it's pisan .. :thumbsup:except when it was parked next to Tony97gt's Skater

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc29/TubeCarz/20130914_123727_zps523234bc.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/TubeCarz/media/20130914_123727_zps523234bc.jpg.html)
:iagree:

[tony97gt]

I posted a link to a 24 for sale here in Miami on craigslist. I think it was going for 32k.

[NAVISPEED1]

I bought a 25' Motion .. Does that mean I have a "Hialeah-Skater" .. :p
I got it after selling my 21' Superboat.
At first, I thought it was one of the worst mistakes I ever made.
It bow steered real bad. :cool: Found out pretty quick that it was me .. :)
It's still hops pretty bad .. :eek: Not for much longer .. ;)
There is as much lumber in it as a Home Depo ... :D
It's not build as good as my Superboat was ... :nonod:
Ive misjudged boat wakes with both .. neither boat tried to kill me , and sound the same upon impac ..err .. landing .. :o
I also didn't have to pay more for a used boat, than it cost when it was new .. :confused:
I run it mostly on the Indian River. But I have had it in the Keys , and up on the Suwanee , and I cant remember saying to myself (in a long time)... I wish I would have bought sumptin else .. or spent more money for it's pisan .. :thumbsup:

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc29/TubeCarz/20130914_123727_zps523234bc.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/TubeCarz/media/20130914_123727_zps523234bc.jpg.html)

+1, like your analogy
Nice ride Chaz :cheers: how does it look inside?

[dumbnfun2]

I can't stop looking at that new body style on the 32 s that loan shark boat on here for sale is just bad a$$ what year they start making those and how many 32s like that are out there without a full canopy ? Hey if ur gonna dream .... Dream big I say :) that thing is just nasty !!!!!

[Alan Power]

Build pics of our 21 cat here... http://powermarine.ie/view_images.php?gid=17#gal_images/small/1357137106.jpg
All composite as standard, unless requested by those in the know! My Own boat is balsa..

[Chaz]

http://www.screamandfly.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Chaz http://www.screamandfly.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?p=2594464#post2594464)
except when it was parked next to Tony97gt's Skater


:iagree:

Mr. T ,
For a minute there I thought ya got me good by adding the last line in my quote .. :rolleyes:

Wait for it .... Bada~Bing ... :D


http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc29/TubeCarz/Tony_zps7d6568d2.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/TubeCarz/media/Tony_zps7d6568d2.jpg.html)

[JPEROG]

I can't stop looking at that new body style on the 32 s that loan shark boat on here for sale is just bad a$$ what year they start making those and how many 32s like that are out there without a full canopy ? Hey if ur gonna dream .... Dream big I say :) that thing is just nasty !!!!!

That's a 32 Doug Wright-There are only 3 of them that I am aware of-Dan's old race boat (loan shark) which he cut the canopy, Scott Porta's brand new one that is being rigged with no windshield but has different deck, and John Caparrel's poker run addition. All are sweet-

Joe

[dumbnfun2]

Yeah might b outta my league .... But never know mayb one day .... Sux there's only so few .... I would expect there to b more people wanting 32s .... Can tow without havin to buy a f650 and still get out in some waves .... But I'm on a budj so not the average skater buyer :) but hey thanks for all the Info guys never hurts to dream .... People been telling me I can't do stuff my whole life .... Didnt do it all .... But I tried ...... And most things came easy ..., mirage sold today !!!!! Lets see what happens next .... :cheers:

[BUZZIN' DOZEN]

John Caparrel's poker run addition

http://speedonthewater.com/images/stories/loto_12_dougwright_west.jpg

[dumbnfun2]

Wait so what's the diff in a Doug write I thought that was a skater my bad .... Looks sick .... And saw the porta one at Suwannee was bada$$ !!!!

[dumbnfun2]

That is sick !!!!

[JPEROG]

Wait so what's the diff in a Doug write I thought that was a skater my bad .... Looks sick .... And saw the porta one at Suwannee was bada$$ !!!!

The boat we had at Suwannee was the race boat that Scott and I run, he has another (brand new) pleasure version that he is rigging with XS motors-Doug builds these hulls down in Sebastian (he has designed a lot of stuff over the years that nobody is aware of involvement). The boats are really amazing and Doug is a top shelf guy. He has a 38 cat and is working on his new 52. There are many differences between what he does and what Pete does- both are big time fun and quality.

Joe

[dumbnfun2]

Yeah nice boats .... Love the shape on those .... I appreciate all the help and info guys .