Is this delamination?

[tony97gt]

What the hell is this? Just discovered this today. This is underneath the boat, center of the hull, right about where the bilge meets the back seat.:eek:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/1E0B46A6-3AB8-4969-ACFE-F3CABC91DA71-16412-000008383E94A706_zps8949f2e8.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/C6807766-8F2D-454C-B86A-A0401931CFD2-16412-00000838459BCD51_zps06bfa245.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/B9D7B44F-4A70-4A1C-8306-023E4ABD660F-16412-000008384B80E963_zpsf25063ee.jpg

[Quinten]

Oh man, I'm no glass guy and it's hard to tell from the pics, but it almost looks like a repair that has started failure in pic 2. Pic 1 and 3 look like a crack that has been oozing for a while or a blister finally popped. I'm afraid that may take some investigation from the inside, outside or both. Hope for the best for ya.

[tony97gt]

I don't know either, but looking at the edge of the big area it looks like maybe something was struck underwater because the edge looks beveled. Or maybe that's where it started to take in water. I don't know...

[MCRacing]

Could be osmotic blistering very common if the trailer bunks are where the blemish is.

[Instigator]

The top and bottom pictures look like screw holes just beggining to penetrate that area from above/inside??
Look at your seat mounts or anything in that area.
What I'm seeing (I think) is not delamination but fracturing of the lamination stack itself. Tough to tell from those pix's.
Put something beside the damage (like a ruler) to give them reference.

I'd find the opposite side of the damage (inside the boat) and start digging to see what it looks like.

[tony97gt]

The top and bottom pictures look like screw holes just beggining to penetrate that area from above/inside??
Look at your seat mounts or anything in that area.
What I'm seeing (I think) is not delamination but fracturing of the lamination stack itself. Tough to tell from those pix's.
Put something beside the damage (like a ruler) to give them reference.

I'd find the opposite side of the damage (inside the boat) and start digging to see what it looks like. I'll try to get better pics today. I don't think there is anything above that area but I'll take a look.

[Smoking Joe]

I'm with Instigator on this. It is hard to tell from your photo's but whatever it is, being glass, it is not a biggy to repair.

[outasite]

Looks like some rust crawling out,that would indicate some metal intrusion from above.But also kinda looks like an old repair.-----It does not look like a delamination.

[rev.ronnie]

Is that the tip of a rusty screw poking through?

[RobF]

I'm with Instigator on this. It is hard to tell from your photo's but whatever it is, being glass, it is not a biggy to repair.


unless the root cause of it is wet balsa, and that could be bad. Not uncommon with that boat.

[tony97gt]

No I don't believe there is anything poking out, just two small holes where it looks like a little rot is going on. Could just be the discoloration as well. I have to inspect further.

[afr]

unless the root cause of it is wet balsa, and that could be bad. Not uncommon with that boat. bing bing bingo we have a winner chicken dinner

[Instigator]

No I don't believe there is anything poking out, just two small holes where it looks like a little rot is going on. Could just be the discoloration as well. I have to inspect further.
You can easilly check it's condition w/o opening it up. Tap the area w/a plastic hammer or handle of a screwdriver.
If solid it will sound like your tapping the steel bumper of a '68 Buick. If bad it will sound like the plastic bumper of a '99 Taurus.

[rchevelle71]

Surprised nobody asked about tanks in this boat?

[RobF]

he said where the bilge meets the back seat

I ASSumed the flat area, would smell the fuel as well. usually get a lot more than one spot once the tanks start blistering

http://robx-7.nopistons.com/d/1859-1/sk+019.jpg

[tony97gt]

So I got underneath the boat today and looked harder. I tapped on the spot in question with a rubber mallet. It was solid as a rock, including most of the area around it. About 6-8" to the port side of it, appears to be a soft spot. The entire area on the bottom was solid when I pushed on it, didn't move, except that one spot. It actually flexes a little bit. I took some video and pics I'm going to post up.

[tony97gt]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/IMG_1414_zps111c6d50.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/IMG_1412_zps24cd3bbf.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/IMG_1411_zps0cf948f4.jpg

[albypine]

Drill a 1/2 hole on the inside , just bore down into the core and stop with out going threw the glass and sure you will find water

[tony97gt]

Forgot to add, there is NOTHING inside the boat that is drilled into that area. It's almost dead center on the bottom, and about 15" from the back of the boat. It's all just bilge area. Tanks are out to the sides.

[tony97gt]

If water is found, and it's rotten, how bad is it to get that rea replaced? If fairly accessible since it's in the bilge and there is nothing on top of that area.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLmLZyuvFO0&feature=youtu.be

[RobF]

water actually gets in through the top, but that almost looks like 3 small holes there as well, maybe previous rigging?

you skin it from the top, remove and replace the core. Than repair that area on the bottom

[afr]

sounds bad to me

[Smoking Joe]

http://www.screamandfly.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Smoking Joe http://www.screamandfly.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?p=2549473#post2549473)
I'm with Instigator on this. It is hard to tell from your photo's but whatever it is, being glass, it is not a biggy to repair.




unless the root cause of it is wet balsa, and that could be bad. Not uncommon with that boat.


Yeah, didn't appreciate it was a cored hull. That certainly throws a different complexion on things. :rolleyes:

[Quinten]

I know it a video, but definately sounds like a change in "pitch" near the suspect area.

[Instigator]

If it's cored, you're in trouble.
I agree w/the drilling a hole from the inside but I'd only drill maybe a 1/4" (or smaller) hole and see what comes out nof the hole while drilling. If it's wet, you're done.
As one w/experience w/wet cores, I can tell you it is NEVER one small spot. Right Scott ; )

As to the small holes, being that they're 15" forward of the transom, how about an old bilge pump mounting location or a float switch??
Sand the gel/paint in that area and see what you have.

The video is hard to tel sounds but id does very. One problem is using a rubber hammer as it dulls the sound/thud. Do it again w/the plastic handle of a screw driver. It is a very distinct change in pitch going from solid to goop.

[Quinten]

+1, light tap with plastic screw driver makes the change in noise easy to hear.

[tony97gt]

Spoke to the previous owner about this situation. He informed me that the area is question was pretty much entirely recored when he got the boat, because the previous owner mounted batteries there and did not seal up the screw holes. I'm assuming it led to core rot, hence the replacement. I was told the skin was left intact and the old core was cut out and replaced. So what I'm seeing is more than likely cosmetic I'm assuming if I'm tapping on that area and it sounds very solid. Now, the area toward the outer edge might be a different story, that appears to be a soft spot. But that area hasn't opened up yet so it's not my main concern right now. If the opened spot in the center is purely cosmetic, which I'm assuming, then I'm thinking maybe some epoxy/hardener in a syringe type of applicator and then west systems gelcoat repair on top of that area to fix it? I'm thinking the two small holes may be from an old screw that might have penetrated the skin, but there doesn't seem to be anything protruding so maybe it was removed.

[RobF]

Sometimes with those boats you can tap and survey an area and repair another, a year later another section shows up. If it sounds bad it probably is, injecting wont do anything for it

[tony97gt]

Sometimes with those boats you can tap and survey an area and repair another, a year later another section shows up. If it sounds bad it probably is, injecting wont do anything for it

Like I said before, the area that I'm concerned with doesn't sound bad, it sounds and feels very solid. That's the area I'm talking about injecting the epoxy/hardener into to seal up those little holes I can see, which obviously has water getting into it now because of the gelcoat area that cracked on top of it.

[RobF]

Your video seems like a spot with a hollow sound?

[Donat]

I'm not expert but I had hydrostream that had seats bolted thru hull. And that looks about the same. Looks like poor fix that haven't been glassed on both sides

[groundloop]

That last photo that was posted certainly looks like those holes were never properly repaired, which would allow water to get to the core. Plus, it looks like black crud seeping out of those holes, which brings back bad memories. You need to drill a few test holes from above to find out what's going on (assuming it's a cored hull).

[afr]

tony if it sounds like a duck its a duck the cores bad dude

[Speed Jr.]

I had the EXACT same thing happen in the pad of my Twister. There were three holes from the inside that must have held where the bilge pump was previously located. I found one tiny crack in the pad from the bottom of the boat where water would drip from. Couldn't see the holes till I compressed from the inside and saw the bubbles. did some grinding and found all three. The pad had a foam core. From three small holes, I had to replace the entire pad from the transom 8' forward. Huh.....I feel for ya.

[tony97gt]

Well the core was replaced maybe a year or two ago so I'm not too sure what's going on. Going to do some further inspecting to see what's up. Just out of curiosity, what did that core replacement cost ya? All of the areas I tapped on where the pictures show the cracked gelcoat, were very solid. It's the one area off to the side that was actually soft. The area in question in the pics sits where I was told was re-cored. so my only guess would be maybe the original repair didn't actually cover those tiny holes in the outer skin, if that was even damaged. Regardless of what may have happened in the past, something's not right there now and I'm gonna get it looked at.

If you drill the inspection holes from the bilge, down into that area, you just reseal them up with Six10 epoxy from a syringe and call it a day?

[RobF]

Unless that core is totally rotted a tiny hole wont tell the story. Ill see if i have some pictures later to show you what they look like but i suggest a minimum of a 1.5" hole saw, set the drill bit just past the saw and once it starts to cut remove the drill bit.
They can still have that golden color but there is no more strength. Hit it with a regular hammer from the top the hammer dont lie.

[Quinten]

On my last core repair, the area was about twice the size of what I heard with the screw driver handle. If it helps.

[XstreamVking]

If that were my boat, I would use #36 grit disc's on an industrial grinder and find out what's up from the bottom side working up into the core.. Already have a hole there. Gotta be ground out at some point anyway.

[RobF]

if you were to drill a 1/4" hole into this core I dont think it would give you an accurate idea of what was going on.
It creeps up on those boats but once you skin the area you realize the bond is gone there is no more strength

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu299/rob284/frankg017_zpse98e3b7d.jpg (http://s657.photobucket.com/user/rob284/media/frankg017_zpse98e3b7d.jpg.html)

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu299/rob284/frankg013_zpsde8e3ba9.jpg (http://s657.photobucket.com/user/rob284/media/frankg013_zpsde8e3ba9.jpg.html)

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu299/rob284/frankg016_zps8b488322.jpg (http://s657.photobucket.com/user/rob284/media/frankg016_zps8b488322.jpg.html)

[Speed Jr.]

I did the re-core myself so it was only $350 in materials/resins with stuff leftover. The prepping (cutting old core/sanding, cleaning for the re-core) is the hardest part.

The culprit
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj550/SpeedJr/20130422_181450_zps8df3727b.jpg
Cut the old wet core out (had to cut my floor out too)
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj550/SpeedJr/20130914_115753_zps62f5ddeb.jpg
New core in
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj550/SpeedJr/20130922_120333_zps254aafed.jpg

[tony97gt]

Thanks for the info and pics guys. Just to clarify, the hole big is only the gelcoat, it's not actually thru the skin (the very tiny pinholes are thru the skin). I tapped on the area surrounding the hole with the end of a screwdriver today and it sounded fine. The soft spot off to the side does sound hollow though, and I'm sure that area is probably wet just based on the softness and the sound. As a temporary fix to keep any water out of that hole in the gel, I used an epoxy stick patch to seal it up until I can get it looked at and repaired.

[RobF]

Just keep your eyes on it, first its wet, then it cracks, and worse case it peels.

[revlimiter]

Hard to believe whoever had the boat before didnt know there was issues and wasnt just trying to unload it.Looks like someone trying to make a buck off someone elses saftey.I sure hope it wasnt purchased off Snf.

[RobF]

Hard to believe whoever had the boat before didnt know there was issues and wasnt just trying to unload it.Looks like someone trying to make a buck off someone elses saftey.I sure hope it wasnt purchased off Snf.


with those boats it can happen from year to the next. Short of removing ALL the core- which is near impossible and once you skin a area that doesnt have an issue its very hard to work that area.
I have boats that we can go over with a hammer one year and the next year a spot pops up.

Remember its not like doing an easy to access thing like a floor or a hatch, you are crawling around a rigged boat, under the deck, stringers and bulkheads in the way.
Its nothing like lets say cutting the deck off a hydrostream and replacing the core, its a totally different animal.

[Quinten]

So far, I was proud no one suggested evil doers were involved. With all due respect to the op and owner of the boat, I don't think the pot needs stirring. He may have an unforeseen issue to deal with on his boat, which we all know is not pleasant. I think it's the op prerogative to even talk about that. JMO.

[revlimiter]

[QUOTE=Quinten;2551571iSo far, I was proud no one suggested evil doers were involved. With all due respect to the op and owner of the boat, I don't think the pot needs stirring. He may have an unforeseen issue to deal with on his boat, which we all know is not pleasant. I think it's the op prerogative to even talk about that. JMO.[/QUOTE]

Completly understand,I sure hope its not the case but its really hard to think it isnt.

[BeefKid]

I would dig into it more rather be safe than sorry... when I did my vector I got balsa for think 40 bucks a sheet from fiberglass coatings in st pete

[Quinten]

Completly understand,I sure hope its not the case but its really hard to think it isnt.

I think it has probably gone through all of our heads. The guy is looking for help and guidance, I just didn't want to see his quest for help derailed, so I felt it was important to try and stay on topic.

[revlimiter]

Id want to be 100% before id run it much more.When small things like that pop up usually there something else hidden .I see the add for the boat was takin down by the seller.He seemed very adiment about selling it right after it was done.Id say its time to start digging deeper on the history of the boat a bit.

[RobF]

Id want to be 100% before id run it much more.When small things like that pop up usually there something else hidden .I see the add for the boat was takin down by the seller.He seemed very adiment about selling it right after it was done.Id say its time to start digging deeper on the history of the boat a bit.


where did the boat come from?

[revlimiter]

Looks like from lightspeed,

[pyro]

If a cored boat has brown water leaking out of a chip or crack, that's always bad. That's "wood rot tea."

[rev.ronnie]

Pipkorn was telling me of a product this summer that is similar to this;

http://www.star-distributing.com/howtoguides/corerestoration.html

I wonder how many boats will start popping up with partial repairs like this.

It seems like if the problem is isolated to one small area, it would be a viable repair though.

[tony97gt]

UPDATE: So I finally found a very reputable and knowledgable glass repair guy thanks to a friend/forum member. Let's just say this guy has been in the boat building business for many years and has built quite a few boats belonging to members of this forum. Anyways- he drilled into the floor/bilge area in question from the top down. Prior to drilling into it, he showed me the delamination area and when we were pushing down on it you could see it moving. This is the same area as the soft spot underneath. Drilling into it revealed the area in question was repaired previously, and it appeared it had a large hole in it at some point (crashed into something possibly). You could see where the factory core and glass were removed and the repaired area was finished, and then you could see where the factory core started again. The repaired area was a crap job apparently which is why it delaminated. The core in the repaired area was rotten and smelled like crap. So....he stopped there for the time being, since it was 7pm and dark and the damage for that area was assessed. He inspected the surrounding areas and found nothing of concern, except the top corners of the transom, where it meets with the side and top of the boat, have some questionable glass work that he said should be touched up and not left that way (glass mat not bonded to the surface on both sides). So, on the to bottom of the boat, underside. The area that had the hole or piece of gelcoat that came off was actually DuraGlass. He said it looked like that area was all DuraGlassed because of the repair that was done on the topside. There are stress crack in the DuraGlass repairs, but you can see the area where the bulkheads were factory bonded so it doesn't appear the repair goes beyond that one area in question. End Result- He's coming back today to cut out the rotten core, replace it with some new type of ABS board (or something like that), grind out the DuraGlass repairs and finish it properly, touch up the inside corners to make them right, and he says that once all that is completed I will be good to go.

Now I don't know if the area in question is where Lightspeed was saying the previous owner had batteries that caused core rot, and there were some other repairs that took place prior to him buying the boat, or if there was something else going on. But my glass guy says it looks like there was a hole in the boat in that area I'm guessing because the DuraGlass from underneath would indicate the bottom layer of skin was compromised. I'll let you guys do the math, cause I'm not sure enough to put it all together.

[XstreamVking]

Just another example proving the only proper way to repair a glass boat is with glass! Good you found the damage before it caused any thing really bad to happen at speed.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Tony ..........can you post up a few pics for all to view ?

[tony97gt]

Due to the weather this repair is being delayed a few days. Lots of rain and moisture/humidity in the air this weekend. Here's a few pics. Area in question is obviously the small area with the square, on the right. The edge closest to the center of the boat is right where the factory core starts and the old repair ends. He cut thru the top layer of glass and then gouged out a small area of the old core to take a look.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/IMG_5038_zpsf2508213.jpghttp://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/IMG_5034_zps2af28c92.jpghttp://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/IMG_5035_zps90277607.jpg

[tony97gt]

Here are the corners where the transom meets the sides of the boat. This is the top corner.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/IMG_5036_zpsc60cb0ae.jpghttp://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/IMG_5037_zps7d08dc65.jpg

[tony97gt]

This is the area I posted in the previous pics, where the hole appeared and there was the old discolored water seeping out. This is what it looked like after being ground down.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/IMG_5042_zps9e7f0439.jpghttp://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/IMG_5041_zpse26c7c2a.jpg

[tony97gt]

This is the area directly below the area in the bilge where the old repair was made, and you saw it being cutout in the first set of pics.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/IMG_5044_zps4f01bddc.jpghttp://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/IMG_5039_zpse353309d.jpghttp://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/IMG_5040_zps65e3c61a.jpg

[tony97gt]

These are the cracks running from port to star where the glass guy was saying is an indication that the repair doesn't extend beyond that point, because it's evidence of where Skater bonded the boat together, or something like that. I'm not too technical when it comes to fiberglass terms.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/IMG_5043_zps75e45eb1.jpg

[mercracer2.5]

That stinks, hopefully its not to costly, but its good you found it know and are having it repaired correctly. Hope it all works out for you. Its a beautiful skater and awesome motors.

[XstreamVking]

Pics on post # 60, looks like pink bondo in the patch. :nonod: You are lucky it didn't blow completely out at the speeds that boat can run. :eek:

[tony97gt]

Pics on post # 60, looks like pink bondo in the patch. :nonod: You are lucky it didn't blow completely out at the speeds that boat can run. :eek:
Could it be duraglass?

[tony97gt]

That stinks, hopefully its not to costly, but its good you found it know and are having it repaired correctly. Hope it all works out for you. Its a beautiful skater and awesome motors.
Thank you, it does suck to know someone half assed a repair that ultimately jeopardized the safety of my family and friends, but at least it's getting repaired right. Sad part is my buddy and I have to foot the bill.

[RobF]

Duraglass normally sold with blue hardener and cures a dark green/blue, the supplier that sells it can send it out with red hardener but it would still not cure that bright pink/red

at the very least the shop would have ground it down to glass,did yo ask john?

[tony97gt]

Yeah he told me it was all cut out and repaired by "superboat bob" and that the area I put up in the original pics was just cosmetic and to patch it up and go. Supposedly that's the area that had been drilled into by the previous owner who mounted batteries there and caused it to rot.

[tony97gt]

Hopefully I explain this right. There was only half the repaired area that actually had glass on it, the other half was putty. None of the resin was kicked, and the area that had core had no evidence of resin that was absorbed into the core, so basically no chemical bond whatsoever. Here's the junk that was cut out. http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/25F64FFC-A005-4E0C-AD02-7CDCBDB7378C-4464-0000026BEBD44FCA_zps3c2cc746.jpg

[tony97gt]

Here's the new core and glass setting in. Two layers of bi axial glass on top.http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/F08D06D6-747D-472B-AA20-66F6D33B6EEA-4464-0000026DAE8BFBED_zps384541d7.jpg

[1FASTLASER]

That's pretty f'ed up that someone would claim that a boat had been repaired only to find out that this had been done. B thankful no one got physically hurt

[rgsauger]

Yep, thats very f'ed! Especially that someone would go so half assed on such a nice and obviously fast boat. A real rocket scientist...

[tony97gt]

That's pretty f'ed up that someone would claim that a boat had been repaired only to find out that this had been done. B thankful no one got physically hurt
Tell me about it. The pics I first posted up were actually the repair starting to come apart. I had it up to 100mph around that time. I can't imagine what would have happened. Especially being in alligator infested waters in the middle of the Florida Everglades.

[tony97gt]

What's even more F'd up is it was purchased from a SNF member on here, that also has two other boats for sale on the forum. Not to mention the motors I was originally sold with the boat were claimed to be "low hour" motors, but when plugged into a DDT showed 1700hrs on each one. Oh and the crack in the LH gearcase, to compliment the RH trim pump seal that was leaking. :thumbsup: http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/C63E8880-7402-466A-B14D-1C183463DCCC-229-0000001C85EA5369_zps0c7936ca.jpg

[Fulltilt]

Sorry to hear about this.

I bought my Mirage as turn key from someone from Fl. who claimed to be a member here, but didn't list it here. I kind of wondered why it wasn't listed here, even had a snf sticker on it.

Spent a lot to get it back here by Labor day weekend. Had a bad lower unit, with a crack in the side leaking water and a carrier bearing and seal. Motor wouldn't turn over 4000 rpms. Hydraulic steering shaft was dinged up and leaking fluid. Some of the gages stopped working also.

Ended up not getting the boat in the water til Sept.21 and only got to run it twice.

Sold the motor as a parts motor to get some of my money back, and put my other motor on it.

The thing is, I could have bought your Talon and put my motor on it and saved money and had a boat in better shape.

Oh well, I do like the Mirage hull.



What's even more F'd up is it was purchased from a SNF member on here, that also has two other boats for sale on the forum. Not to mention the motors I was originally sold with the boat were claimed to be "low hour" motors, but when plugged into a DDT showed 1700hrs on each one. Oh and the crack in the LH gearcase, to compliment the RH trim pump seal that was leaking. :thumbsup: http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/C63E8880-7402-466A-B14D-1C183463DCCC-229-0000001C85EA5369_zps0c7936ca.jpg

[mach1magnum]

i am also a victim of a scream and fly seller broken mid big ding in the prop engine with a bad coil trailer on its last leg scratches on hull and was never told about any of this just a long story about how nice the boat was cant wait for any other surprises oh well you do enough deals you must expect to get screwed now and then i have got to stop being so trusting because some says i am a scream and fly member!!

[XstreamVking]

The pics of the cracks make more sense now. It was strange how some of the cracks had a recessed look to them. Like the underlayment was shrinking and the repair filler was swelling at the same time. Un cured glass was shrinking and the bondo was swelling. What a f'ed combo.

[1FASTLASER]

The pics of the cracks make more sense now. It was strange how some of the cracks had a recessed look to them. Like the underlayment was shrinking and the repair filler was swelling at the same time. Un cured glass was shrinking and the bondo was swelling. What a f'ed combo.
+1........

[tony97gt]

New glass gel coated in yesterdayhttp://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/4C8D2A26-4A92-41E1-9FAD-15B141CD8C10-885-000000957F0DD27B_zps28250891.jpg

[BeefKid]

Still gonna make it this weekend?

[tony97gt]

No, still have to get a seal leak fixed in my left lower and with the pouring rain right now I don't see my glass repair getting finished soon.

[BeefKid]

Dam man sorry to hear it

[tony97gt]

It's all good, I gotta get these damn gremlins out of the boat anyways. Wasn't looking fwd to that long drive.

[fast fun 2]

Gorgeous Skater, sorry about the bad luck glad you are getting it fixed correctly!

[afr]

so who is fixing it now ?

[tony97gt]

Guy named Dave who used to build Action Marines.

[tony97gt]

No I don't really think you do. Apparently by your first statement above you feel like it's my responsibility to absorb the crap work and ragged out motors that I purchased because I was not told the truth. John is no rookie to boating, per his years of high perf cat racing and world record achievments. I don't give a sh%t what the boat used to be, you don't fu%k with people's lives and their safety by paying someone to do a crappy repair. If you know so much about the situation, were you personally there to witness this "professional" doing the repairs, or are you just going off his word? Because I took his word, and look what I ended up with. You know who's paying for that now, my partner and I. You know why, because we trusted him and we aren't experienced enough to know better. We trusted him as a forum member with many many posts and friends on here. Well that's costing us now, and it could have cost us much much more if I wasn't under the boat putting a jack under the trailer to even notice the holes. I'm sorry that you think the next guy should deal with the seller's problems, but that's not how honest people do business, and it's not how people who are allowed to sell stuff on the forum should do business. This boat was supposedly painted at an auto body shop, which leads me to believe that's probably who did the half @$$ repair too. Maybe if it was your family, friends, and loved ones riding in a boat with a repair like this you would be able to understand, but you don't f with something like that where people can be seriously hurt or killed at high speed.

And please tell me when my boat was a "race" boat, because to my knowledge it was never raced. It is a race/pleasure style from Skater, and that's probably the only "race" associated with it. If you still feel the way you do, I've got some land in the Florida Everglades I'd love to sell you. It's perfect for building a house, it used to be swamp but I paid a local guy to pour some sand on it and fill it it. Call me sometime.:thumbsup:

[revlimiter]

The fact is he band aid fixed it to flip it and did it on the back of the potential buyers saftey as well as his family.I think I would take the word of a Officer of the Law over a glorified boat/car salesman trying make a buck.The motors were junk and not even close to what they were said to be.To cover his ass he removed the add so all the info was gone.One thing is for sure honor and honesty is a dying commodity in everday people.Lightspeed shows just how low a guy will stoop to make a a few dollars.

[tony97gt]

Funny story, I'm talking to a very reputable source about my boat some time ago and he was actually familiar with the situation. He told me the reason the boat came with those 200's was because John tried to sell the 260/280's that were on it as good running motors and when the buyer showed up, they pulled the heads and discovered the motors were blown. Like I said, I cannot verify this info but it all makes sense to me. Maybe someone knows the potential buyer who saw the motors??

[tony97gt]

I'm not trying to start a feud here and I'm not trying to say your word is wrong. You obviously know way more about all of this then me.

My comments were based on the thread that was here when he was rebuilding it stating that others did the work.

I do feel your pain as I've been down this same road and would not wish it upon anybody.

Sorry to have upset you, that was not my intention. I am sure your comments are based upon what you read. I also read the boat was in great shape, and was told it had low hour motors. Unfortunately I didn't own a DDT at the time of the sale (and still don't), but when I was standing in John's driveway asking him about the hours, he replied that he would have shown me the hours with his DDT but that it was ruined in the storm up North that ruined his house. Coincidence, maybe.

He also told me the trailer had new bunks, carpet, rims, tires, bearings, and springs. Well if I remeber correctly, the trailer beams on both sides were rusted all the way thru which is one of the reasons I sold it and bought an aluminum. And, the bearings couldn't have been that new because when Frank Mole towed the trailer up north after I sold it, it ate a bearing. I didn't tow that trailer very much and only had it for a few months, not to mention I always kept them full of grease.

Don't get me wrong, he did a fantasic job with the wiring and rigging. And the paint looks great. But the trailer condition, motor condition, and hack repair job are a different story. I cannot prove that John did the repair himself, or had a body shop do it, or that superboat bob did it and didn't tell John he was half-a$$ing it. But I know John has had his hand in the boating world for almost as long as I've been alive. So the odds are that he had knowledge of all the defects with this boat that I listed above. He told me the story on the day of sale about the repair area, and that it was from the previous owner drilling into the glass to mount batteries. Truth? Possibly. He also said that it was all cut out and replaced by superboat bob. Truth? Not really.

There's a right way to do things, and there's the cheap way. If you are sacrificing a few hundred bucks to do things the cheap way and risking other people's safety, you need to stop selling and rebuilding things and find another job/hobby. If an airplane mechanic repairs your airplane that you take your family flying with, and uses old/used parts but tells you he is using new stuff, and one of those parts fail while you are flying, can you really say it wasn't his fault? The money is not the bigger issue here, my safety is. That's what has me flaming mad right now. Not to mention the trust/moral factor of the "scream and fly" family. I look at this place in a while new light now. If he didn't know much about boats I could maybe see that he wasn't aware of what was going on. I don't know much about fiberglass, but I'm out there everyday looking at the progress my guy is doing and taking pictures. And asking lots of questions. Why? Cause I want to learn, and because I want to know what he is doing so I have complete faith that his repairs won't leave me underwater. Speaking of which, I cannot even insure my boat. So had it delaminated at 100mph, and I did survive, my investment would be at the bottom of the drink. Would John offer to help pay to replace it? I doubt it. So...yes I was rubbed the wrong way by your comment. Hard feelings? No. But so far the only person that has replied to this thread with the slightest bit of side for John is you. I've been getting PM after PM about how messed up this is, so I know it's not just me. I was originally going to just stay quiet about the motor issue because I gave him the benefit of the doubt that maybe he didn't know. But there are just way to many "benefit of the doubt" situations here for it to be possible.

[tony97gt]

Here, found this. Check out post#47 and read on. There was never any public clarification on this, so I'm not sure what the outcome was.

http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?124512-Best-shop-in-Long-Island/page4

[rgsauger]

Tony, i just read that whole thread. Wtf was up with all that chit?! Sorry you had probs with your ride. Hopefully the wind in your hair and sun on your face will make it all worthwhile.

[tony97gt]

Tony, i just read that whole thread. Wtf was up with all that chit?! Sorry you had probs with your ride. Hopefully the wind in your hair and sun on your face will make it all worthwhile.
Thanks, my partner and I are working on the boat piece by piece and trying to make it all right the way it should be. We managed to sell the motors it came with, to a member here, who was fully informed about the hours on them. We have since put a pair of 280's on, which are awesome so far. Glass repairs are almost done. We sold the trailer and bought a brand new aluminum one, with brakes and torsion axles. So yeah it's coming along, slowly and not cheap. Eventually it will all be worked out, just sucks we have to bite the bullet on it. We both love the boat and have a helluva time with it too.

[tony97gt]

Here's the only info left that hasn't been deleted. I'd love to see 45k in receipts. There def wasn't 45k of stuff on this boat. Maybe with a brand new trailer, a full JL Audio system, LED's, jackplates, a solid core, and twin 280's it might have 45k now.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/skater/287048-24-classifieds.html

[tony97gt]

http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?240018-Just-Got-The-Skater-Back-From-Paint&highlight=

[rev.ronnie]

Man, you bought the boat, replaced the trailer then the motors, then had to get the boat repaired...
It's like buying a hammer and then having to replace the handle...and then the head...

These deals lay a cloud of doubt over the whole site, I sorry to say.

I mean, I know who to trust, I've bought boats and parts here and been very happy. Someone who is new, however, may be very skeptical. The seller on this deal really dropped a big turd on this site, and everyone on it. What a selfish person.

Hope you get it all straighted out and move forward.

On that other thread you referenced...it's funny that the "unknown user", who was singing praises, had equally bad grammatical and punctuation skills as the poster in question with the same ISP addy.

[groundloop]

Here's the only info left that hasn't been deleted.....

Isn't there an archive online that saves stuff on the web? I've heard about it but never had any reason to look into it before.


EDIT TO ADD... LOOK WHAT I JUST FOUND: http://web.archive.org/web/20121022080240/http://offshoreonly.com/classifieds/24_skater-o47803-en.html



On that other thread you referenced...it's funny that the "unknown user", who was singing praises, had equally bad grammatical and punctuation skills as the poster in question with the same ISP addy.


Hmmmmm...... I browsed that thread very briefly and couldn't help but notice the members with very low post counts singing praises about him. That always strikes me as kind of strange.

It's sad how there seem to be so many people in the boating world who aren't shy about ripping people off, or at the very least claim something is in great condition when they in fact know nothing about it's condition. I've run into that several times, see the thread in my signature about the asshole in Savannah who sells engines out of his house.

Anyway, it sucks that this happened but I'm glad to see the boat getting fixed properly.

[tony97gt]

Those who tried to PM me, sorry my inbox was full and I just woke up to tons of emails. I cleaned it out a bit, so feel free to fire away now.

The last conversation I had with John was when he told me the holes I was seeing were cosmetic, and to just have my partner (who is a body shop manager) to fill them in, paint them, and leave it alone. Like I said, I wasn't making a big deal out of the motor hours, the cracked gearcase, or even the repair at first. But when my glass guy showed me how sloppy and half @$$ed the repair was, my "benefit of the doubt" mindset went into this crap has to be intentional mindset. So now I'm pissed. I'm not trying to get anything out of this, I highly doubt John would offer me a dollar to even remedy the situation. I'm just trying to make the other members and the administrators aware of what is going on. John is an artist when it comes to installing gauges and wires, my boat looks amazing undr and behind the dash. I give him credit for that. But the gremlins I have to pay to fix on that boat are not worth the pretty wiring. The boat is almost done being repaired, and after that it will be an amazing toy for us to enjoy. We aren't half @$$ing anything on this boat as you can tell by the trailer and engines, which are going to Diamond Marine soon for full rebuilds and a bit of tweaking. So once this boat is done, if we ever get tired of it, whoever is getting it next will definitely have a nice boat, at our expense. Thank you everyone for your help and responses thus far, and please keep any useful information coming this way.

[tony97gt]

Isn't there an archive online that saves stuff on the web? I've heard about it but never had any reason to look into it before.


EDIT TO ADD... LOOK WHAT I JUST FOUND: http://web.archive.org/web/20121022080240/http://offshoreonly.com/classifieds/24_skater-o47803-en.html





Hmmmmm...... I browsed that thread very briefly and couldn't help but notice the members with very low post counts singing praises about him. That always strikes me as kind of strange.

It's sad how there seem to be so many people in the boating world who aren't shy about ripping people off, or at the very least claim something is in great condition when they in fact know nothing about it's condition. I've run into that several times, see the thread in my signature about the asshole in Savannah who sells engines out of his house.

Anyway, it sucks that this happened but I'm glad to see the boat getting fixed properly.
So here you have the original description of the boat as it was for sale:
<tbody>
1989 24 Skater Hull #92 Kevlar Race Lay Up,, Its Finally Done And Going Up For Sale ,,Hull Was Completly Stripped To Bare Glass Epoxy Primed Like 4 Coats And Painted Blue And Silver And Clear Coated ,,,Every Nut, Bolt, Washer ,Wire ,Wiring Harness, Hose, And Part In This Boat Is Brand New ,,Custom Carbon Fiber Dash With All Military Switches And Livorsi Gauges,28 Skater Console ,Gaffrig Controls,Uflex Cables,,All New Interior, Rear Seat Moved Forward ,Skater Race Hatch Cut To Fit The Back Seat,Side Panels Go Down To Floor, Snap In Carpets,Custom Fiberglass Wind Screen Black Gel,New Rub Rail,Pop Up Cleats ,Tunnel Tab,,Its Powered By A Pair Of 260/280 Motors These Are Pre 280 Blocks One Is a 97 Other Is a 99 They Have All The Bosses But Not Drilled For The Alternators,,Top Pinned Pistons ,They Have The 280 Rods,Fresh Motors,The Clamp Brackets Are New The Late Model Mids Were Stripped And Powder Coated,, Sportmaster Fat Shaft Lowers ,,Sitting On A Skater Trailer With All New Tires,Hubs And Bearings, Lites Bunks And Carpet,,This Project Took Almost 2 Years And Lots Of Money To Complete ,,,Also Has A Brand New Sunbrella Supreme Full Custom Cover It Has The Felt Inside So It Wont Scratch The Boat,,You Have To See This Boat In Person It Is Stunning The Rigging Is Second To None,,And Like I Said Its All Brand New You Dont Have To Spend A Dime On It,,Its Not Like The Others Out There Where You Have To Throw 10 Or 20 At It To Get It The Way You Want,,This Is ,,,Its Also On Scream and fly With More Pics,,,WILL ALSO TRADE FOR A LATE MODEL CORVETTE

</tbody>

[SotallyTober57]

EDIT TO ADD... LOOK WHAT I JUST FOUND: http://web.archive.org/web/20121022080240/http://offshoreonly.com/classifieds/24_skater-o47803-en.html

I co-own the boat with tony97gt and I just read the offshore only listing.

The first few lines state that the hull had been "Stripped To Bare Glass", however, the hull still has the original awlgrip/gel coat on the very bottom and between the sponsons. Heck even the interior still has the original stuff under the front seats and snap in carpet. If the "Hull Was Completly Stripped To Bare Glass" it would be safe to say that the polyester body filler covering the shady repair would have been exposed. I've worked with Duraglass many times and I have never seen a red version, nor have I seen a red activator/hardener. The red stuff our glass guy founds was bonafide bondo/mud/filler, whatever you want to call it. And I can guarantee you that the manufacturer never intended for it to be used for structual repair. As a matter of fact it shouldn't be used any more than 4mils in depth.

Also, the "new interior" listed must have been taken out because Lightspeed told me the interior was out of his 28' Skater. It may have been new in that boat, but my definition would be BRAND NEW never installed.

There's no doubt the finish and interior are nice. Overall, I'm very happy with the boat. I'm just the kind of person that wouldn't use those terms to describe the boat if they weren't true. Honestly speaking, it wouldn't have swayed my decision at all. I was in love with the boat...

[rev.ronnie]

EDIT TO ADD... LOOK WHAT I JUST FOUND: http://web.archive.org/web/20121022080240/http://offshoreonly.com/classifieds/24_skater-o47803-en.html

I co-own the boat with tony97gt and I just read the offshore only listing.

The first few lines state that the hull had been "Stripped To Bare Glass", however, the hull still has the original awlgrip/gel coat on the very bottom and between the sponsons. Heck even the interior still has the original stuff under the front seats and snap in carpet. If the "Hull Was Completly Stripped To Bare Glass" it would be safe to say that the polyester body filler covering the shady repair would have been exposed. I've worked with Duraglass many times and I have never seen a red version, nor have I seen a red activator/hardener. The red stuff our glass guy founds was bonafide bondo/mud/filler, whatever you want to call it. And I can guarantee you that the manufacturer never intended for it to be used for structual repair. As a matter of fact it shouldn't be used any more than 4mils in depth.

Also, the "new interior" listed must have been taken out because Lightspeed told me the interior was out of his 28' Skater. It may have been new in that boat, but my definition would be BRAND NEW never installed.

There's no doubt the finish and interior are nice. Overall, I'm very happy with the boat. I'm just the kind of person that wouldn't use those terms to describe the boat if they weren't true. Honestly speaking, it wouldn't have swayed my decision at all. I was in love with the boat...


Sounds like it got an "on the trailer" cosmetic rebuild.

[tony97gt]

Well this repair was pretty much finished up today. The bottom was sanded, filled, and gelcoated. The inside was gelcoated last week. The inside corners of the transom were also repaired. Just have to have Dave smooth out/buff the bottom in a few days and repaint the repaired areas in the bilge with the Interlux 2 Part stuff. Hoping to be water ready by the weekend.

[XstreamVking]

At least you know the boat is safe to run now. Get in the habit of checking the bottom more often. Just like you check the surfaces of an airplane before flight.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

EDIT TO ADD... LOOK WHAT I JUST FOUND: http://web.archive.org/web/20121022080240/http://offshoreonly.com/classifieds/24_skater-o47803-en.html

The red stuff our glass guy founds was bonafide bondo/mud/filler, whatever you want to call it. And I can guarantee you that the manufacturer never intended for it to be used for structual repair. As a matter of fact it shouldn't be used any more than 4mils in depth.

... Well to make a long story short i can honestly say like mentioned above we never would use a filler ( bondo ) alone for a structural repair other then what it was intended for, and when we did use a filler it was made by Adtec Ind , good above and below the waterline with only white hardner .

[tony97gt]

It's water under the bridge now (or hull), repairs are done other than final cosmetic touch-ups.

[mercracer2.5]

Hope all goes well from here on forward with the boat. Im sure you will have a lot of great times on it especially with diamond 280's.

[2.5-21]

Did I read that correctly 1700 hours on the motors?????????????????? What were you told they had on them? Did you confront the seller on that? Did you have anyone else look it over before you bought it?
Sorry to hear about all that crap. I will soon have a deal to expose myself on a purchase made here also.

[tony97gt]

Yes 1700hrs. I didn't have a DDT and when I asked the seller if he knew how many hours, he said "low hours" but that his DDT was in New York in his home that was flooded during Hurricane Sandy. Nobody else looked it over, I was under the impression that people on the forum with that many posts and who are so well known were safe to buy from. I wasn't as educated then about all the potential areas to look at, and neither was my partner. We have to eat it as a lesson learned, and although we have both had to pay quite a small fortune to fix everything that was wrong with this boat, we still love the boat. Only thing it would have changed would have been the selling price we were willing to pay for it. I did confront the seller once I found out about the hours and he said he never verified the hours when he bought them from Franzen Marine in Tampa and that Franzen must have lied to him. I basically gave up trying to chase down the truth cause at this point I could care less. Just want to inform others about my experience so the same thing doesn't happen to them.

[baja200merk]

Franzen builds a lot of stuff he buys I'd be surprised if one wasnt recently apart.

[tony97gt]

Well today the fiberglass repairs were finally finished. Dave and Bob (glass guys) came back and wet sanded/polished the areas that were repaired and it's all good now. Gonna keep an eye on it the next few trips out.

[mach1magnum]

glad to hear you are all fixed up at least in the end you wound up with a hot looking 24 and after straightening up the problems now its yours

[tony97gt]

Speaking of problems, check out the bearings on your "old" boat trailer. Or what's left of them.http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/tony97gt/Mobile%20Uploads/9D492B7C-D33A-4819-A3F1-046377F1BDBA_zps2ifyezoo.jpg (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/tony97gt/media/Mobile%20Uploads/9D492B7C-D33A-4819-A3F1-046377F1BDBA_zps2ifyezoo.jpg.html)

[mach1magnum]

oh man thathurts fresh bearings my a$%

[XstreamVking]

Looks like someone put a little too much grease in the hub.....

[revlimiter]

Suprised nobody asked about tanks in this boat?

I sure hope not, this seller has made everyone sick.

[JPEROG]

Tony,

That is where the batteries were mounted at skater on every 24 that I have had and on my current one, the battery box had broken loose and inside laminate was trashed, the core was exposed in about a 8 x 10 inch area-then the guy had it sitting outside with the race hatch on it so all of the water ran to the back and dropped down just past the rear tunnel cross member support and into the box just in front of the transom. The good thing is that the top of the tunnel is cored but the corners are solid laminate (it stops the rot from traveling down the tunnel sides) so we gutted mine up about 5 feet from the transom and replaced the balsa core with composite core and then vacuumed carbon layers down to seal it all back up. I have also had to pull core out of 2 different 24s on the running surface just in front of the liner (near where your feet rest) due the core being beaten out and turned to powder. This is where the water is first hitting the running surface when you are at speed and it gets pounded non stop like the rear of the tunnel does when your in chop and re-entering. Its all a pain but be thankful that you caught it early and know to keep an eye it from here on. Wood is wood and wood soaked with water is s*it-

Keep making it right because nice 24s are few and fare between.

Hope to run with you guys at some point when I get mine pieced back together.

Joe

[tony97gt]

Thx for the heads up joe. Let me know when your wet again.

[lightspeed]

I haven`t been on here much lately dealing with my house in NY but came on here to find i have been thrown under the bus by you Tony, ,When i sold you this boat i was 100% up front with you about everything that was done to it ,first off the powerheads we know were bought from Franzen marine i was told that they were in fact low hr motors wish i had my DDT to check the hrs on them would have never bought em with that many hrs ,,but was told by him and his mechanic they were low hrs i did a compression check and they were 125 in all 12 holes and the Serial Number seals were still across the head and block never apart figured he was right and when i got a 100% warranty with them for 2 months figured all good and for 8000.00,good money and you even agreed with me how clean they were and compression was done in front of you and you were givin the warranty when you picked up the boat,,, ,,my fault for not checking never again,,,As far as the hull being stripped to bare glass and primed and painted by mike at TJA auto body shop that was done and he done a great job ,i told you right from the get go the boat was all original from the chines down and in the tunnel was the original gel we never did any repairs under the hull just some blending of paint thats it It must have had repairs done before i got it after all its 25 years old and with that coming off the tunnel must have leaked water into the balsa core ??...Superboat Bob did the repair in the center where the battery usually goes and you were told that,,just like your guy did,,, ,,Bob has built 100s of superboats and done 1000s of repairs Jeff freezeframe who also worked there can tell you how good he is the best in my book,, seen him do a repair on a 32 skater that was run over by a 46 cougar you would never know he was in there also the infamous 22 progression which he took a part off a 21 super and put it on the bow you would never know he fixed it Ask Bender he knows,,He fixed it right i dont care what your guy said ,,, Like i said must have been the previous repair that caused it to happen again,,,,,the interior was just like i said to you it came out of a 28 that was used for a month it was new upholstery and taken out and stored for the time it took me to build this boat made new side panels and back seat matched the upholstery and good to go yea when i drilled the seats to fit the 24 i tore the seat when i drilled it but was underneath it didnt show,,, upholstery guys usually use the foam over unless it was crap,,, ,,,still new in my book sorry u dont like it,,,the trailer had 2 new hubs on the left side with new bearings and seals 1 new hub on the right with new bearings and seals and the other had new bearings and seals with new bearing buddys and dust caps always greased them i put about 2500 miles with no problems guess you never greased them ,,my fault to i guess,,yea it had some rust but i tried to make it as nice as i could new bunks ,carpet lites etc not bad for a 25 year old steel trailer,,,you say i didnt put 45k into it Ha I probably had more into it than that goes to show how clueless you are figure it out bare hull motors rigging all the other stuff and to make it look like that, lots of money pal,,,,You should have called me we could have made this right,,now all i am is very pissed off about this whole thing ,,In the 45+ years of selling buying and fixing boats I never had to Explain my self like this and Never SCREWED any one ,,, Up front about everything Oh and since your nit picking everything the 2 motors that were on the boat were going 8500 at river ranch and when i sold them the person pulled the heads to find 3 pistons with loose top pins and there was a fixed broken head bolt that was done by someone before i got the motor drilled off center a heli coil put on and never leaked and torqued down fine the other i must have scuffed a little at river ranch ran a little hot at 8500 but i am glad he saw this and price was adjusted and off he left with 2 complete drop ons for 5K ,,after all i cant see thru them ,,I am sorry you feel this way but like i said i was 100% up front with you about everything guess you cant please everyone,,I am done with this over and out

[lightspeed]

Oh i forgot the trim cylinder was not leaking when it left my place the seal just happened to take a $hit when you got it i guess that was my fault too its a part what can i say,,and there was no crack in the gear case to my knowledge when you picked it up maybe you hit something in the glades and didnt know it i guess thats my fault too

[tony97gt]

John, hope all is well with you and your home. I am sorry if your feelings were hurt by my explanation of all the repairs I've had to do with this boat. If you go back and read the first few pages of posts here, it was never my intention to even name you as the original seller of this boat, another member did. I tried to keep this thread limited to my questions about what type of damage the boat might have had, as well as the amount we were possibly looking at to repair it. I'm sure you and the other members on here know me by now, and the reason I ask so many questions and stuff is because you are right, I am clueless don't know $hit. That's why I called you several times to ask you questions about the boat like- "hey, the bottom of the boat is starting to crack off in the tunnel, should I be concerned?" To which you replied just paint over it. John I tried to be as humble as possible about the whole situation and it was several other members on here that were displeased with the way this boat was described in the listing. Your listing-,,You Have To See This Boat In Person It Is Stunning The Rigging Is Second To None,,And Like I Said Its All Brand New You Dont Have To Spend A Dime On It,,Its Not Like The Others Out There Where You Have To Throw 10 Or 20 At It To Get It The Way You Want,,This Is ,,,- proved to be incorrect. We have had to spend thousands on this boat to get it the way it needs to be. Sure you took a rusted out trailer and put some pretty paint on it (which by the way I always made sure the bearings were greased), but am I supposed to drive it until it breaks into pieces from corrosion (maybe the rusted out frame should have been pointed out during the sale)?

The motors, another issue. But you know what, in the end we love this boat. It just sucks when it's sold under the pretenses that no money has to be spent on it, when in actuality we have spend quite a bit. Gearcase cracked- well I can't prove either way that it was or was not like this, but I'm willing to bet that if I hit something in the glades like you assumed, my very thin blades on the propellors would have shown more damage than that big heavy gearcase. Then again, I'm clueless so I could be wrong. The area that was repaired in the back of the boat is the same area that superboat bob fixed. I'm sure you think he's the best in your eyes, but I was there when the repair was cut out and saw the condition of it. If it was repaired right, it wouldn't have delaminated. Trim pump seal- just happened to start leaking about a week or two after owning the boat. When you mention the midsections were stripped down and painted, I would believe that you would have noticed the chunks of rubber missing from the seals and fixed it. 45 years of experience in buying/fixing boats, I'm sure you can spot problems on boats a mile away.

Again, it's all water under the bridge and I know that you would never offer a dime to try and compensate us for the repairs we have had to do, which is why I never called you and asked you for anything. I don't really think I "threw you under the bus" so to speak. All I did was point out that we bought a boat which needed some pricey repairs (and one that could have injured/killed us and our wives) when it was listed as not needing anything. I gave you credit where credit was due and praised your rigging and wiring work. It still looks amazing and I can only imagine how hard it must have been. The paintjob looks great as well, I also mentioned that. The interior isn't that bad, but I don't think "brand new" is the proper term for it. The stitching on the logos are somewhat faded, which is one reason why I say that I don't think brand new is right. I'm not going to go back and forth with you about this on here, and I really don't care to talk to you about it because it doesn't matter at this point. The info I linked from the other threads was not something I created, I just brought it into my discusssion because I felt it was relevant.

[revlimiter]

Never trust a man who makes his living taking money out of another mans pocket...........