Mirage Ski Racer/Jaguar Hopping

[kcoleman10]

I have a 1996 Mirage Ski Racer that is driving me nuts. I brought it back from FL at the beginning of August and rigged it with my 280. I've run it a handful of times now but it has been the furthest thing from a joy to drive. Here's the scoop. I'm running my 280 3/4" above the pad. I have a 9.5" setback. When I get to 58mph-60mph it starts bouncing. I've trimmed through and been able to get a few nice passes. But 90% of the time its bouncing so bad I just back out of it. I checked the bottom for any hooks or bellys and haven't seen anything noticable, although its difficult to lay upside down with the trailer axle in the way once I move further towards the front of the boat to check the center pad. Can anyone provide some insight on this.

I've talked to guys who say theirs does it and they just trim through and others who say theirs is as smooth as glass. Just wondering if someone could provide some insight on this if they have experienced this, especially at this speed and how they fixed it. Thanks.

Kyle

[baja200merk]

Whats it weigh?
What gearcase? sporty?
What prop?

I was in the back of a ski racer last night with an ET it had a slight hop at 80-85 (barely noticeable) but its heavy and we were loaded down (fuel cooler 2 fat guys). Ran 99mph with all the weight and a box stock fishing 200EFI before we ran out of water.

[mach351]

Kev is probably right....boat is probably light, has the wrong prop, and the motor is too deep. My stv hops from about 65 to 80....not much I can do about it except not cruise in that range.

[Rayzor]

Raise the motor another 3/4" (the propshaft should be 1.5" above centerpod) and put a "known" prop on it. My Jaguar/280 worked well with a Merc 3 blade cleaver, Merc Lightning ET and Performance Propellers Drag 3. It had a slight porpoise in the 70mph range, but you just trim and power through it.

[Fl Boy in ILL]

Usually when they hop you are to low try raising the motor up some
Rick

[toyomirage02]

yep raise it power thought it and trim it ,,if ya power past let it pack the air the slow back down you can cruise at 70 where the bounce usually is

[kcoleman10]

I'm not sure of the weight, but I believe its light. I bought the boat from Bobby Feagle. Its the black/purple/white ski racer. I have a Sportmaster gearcase and am currently running a 30ET. It was a 28 originally but Rich Junker re did it for me. I was talking to Tim(blindman) who bought a Ski Racer off Moomba and he said that his doesn't hop at all. I would like to get mine to that state. What is frustrating to me is that I have a Jaguar Jet that I converted and was no where near having a perfect flat center pad and that damn thing runs as flat as can be. It's quite a bit of a heavier boat though. This thing is a rocket if I can just get comfortable in it and the hopping isn't helping much. It felt good when I had it at 105mph but just a little scary getting there and coming back out of it.

[mach351]

Right boat, right motor, right prop....just raise it up and it'll act way better. Feagle's boat always ran good!

http://i40.tinypic.com/rwjg45.jpg

[Mr. Demeanor]

Does crabbing the boat help you guys? It helps me when it starts hopping. Crank the wheel and power.

[kcoleman10]

Calling for rain here tomorrow, so Ill wait til Tuesday to try it out again. Ill go with 1 1/2" above the pad and see what happens. Yeah Bobby said he had it up to 123mph-125mph a few times. I'd like to try a 28 Cleaver on it sometime...Not sure what kind of results that would give? I like the ET props especially when I have a person or two in the boat, but anytime I have had a cleaver on in the past with my other boats they always hauled the mail.

[kcoleman10]

Here's a couple pictures of it from a few weeks ago when I took it to a lake nearby for a boat outing. This boat and the 2004 Purple/Yellow Euro for sale on here are probably my 2 favorite boats of all time in this style.

[toyomirage02]

when on top it helps crabing and if mine is really weighted down ill yank it left a let it eat fly it high then bring it down once it packs air good and then it goes ,,mine is really heavy 840 -860 out of the mold

[kcoleman10]

I wish mine were a little heavier. When you rest your hand on the side of the boat you can hear the fiberglass creaking.

[Da Bull]

I had a 95 Ski Racer purpose built light weight with a modded 260 on spray and never ran a larger prop than a 26p Yammi and had no hop. Sweetest boat i ever drove on the button or not. Mine was 1" above the pad. A bud of mine has it now with a Simon 3.0L and has the motor lower but still no hop. I`ve heard of a few Ski Racers that hop but not all that bad.
I would try the suggestion above (rasing the motor) then maybe a differant style prop just for comparison. This hop you discribe is out of character for your boat.

DB

[kcoleman10]

If this doesn't work, I will get someone to take a video to show what is going on. I think I'm going to hunt down a 26 or 28 pitch prop. A friend of mine has a Hoss Triton 1 26p that was thinned and worked a little and that prop was really fast on my other Mirage.

[rkmirage]

Mine hopped at 80-85, that was with the cleaver. I put a chopper with a slight ET cut and the hop went away. Some will disagree, but Mirage's don't like cleavers. ET's seem to work best in my opinion.

[kcoleman10]

I was too eager to wait and I ran down to the river this morning to beat the storm and try it out. It still hopped when I moved the engine up but it was a little better and easier to get through it. I'm going to keep adjusting to see if I can find a hot spot. Seems to be heading in the right direction though.

[michael lang]

had 1993 always hopped only way to drive it was blow through the 60mph hopp or turn towards the left then pull it hard right and nail it but with 2 people and a big prop forget it my best prop was the 28 et or 30 never like the fact that I either had to go under 60 or above 90 and I tried every prop had the boat for 18yrs but once it laid down it would hammer now I am going back to a vbottom cause I love cruising at 65 to 70.

[kcoleman10]

That sounds all too familiar. I really don't think the engine height is going to fix this problem 100%. I'm going to head back to the river tomorrow.

[toyomirage02]

dont just ease through the 50 - 80 range just get it !!!!!

[Rayzor]

I'm very surprised to hear how so many of you say your Mirages porpoise. I could drive mine any speed, the porpoise around 70ish was so mild it was hardly even noticeable. The best handling prop was my 30 cleaver, second was my Lightning Et and third was the Drag 3 (which I had Tim work, because when I first got it, the boat did have slightly more porpoise than with the other props I ran - he fixed it though). My buddy also had a 4 seat Mirage, and it also drove great with almost no porpoise. He ran a 28 Drag 4 on his. He later bought an STV Euro and said he liked his Mirage a lot better. My Mirage was one of the best performing/handling boats I've ever owned!

[toyomirage02]

yea mine hardly ever does no matter what props or what size it just depends on the load or if ya just blast through it

[Tague]

engine height is the key to it all and forget about the prop shaft the only thing that matters is the water pickup, the easiest way to set it, is use the trailer jack and use a digital level and zero out the running surface and draw a center line on the pad. Once that is level, then level the prop shaft. Run a straight edge off the pad and see where it contacts the gearcase. I found that mine performed best with the running surface 1/8" below the pickup. still tons of water pressure and no hop. That was with a 4 blade ron hill.

[baja200merk]

My new boat will try to throw you out at 45-55. 60-100 its very well behaved. My skiracer had a slight hop barley noticable between 70-75 light load (850lb layup) w/ omc, 14" setback and a 34 ET.

[kcoleman10]

That's the only way to get through it is to just smash the throttle. We got some sunny weather today and I'm going to head to the river and try a few more passes. If this engine height doesn't fix it, I'd really like to know what is the answer. Hopefully not a hook in the center pad.

[Da Bull]

How much set back do you have?

[kcoleman10]

The jackplate has 9.5" of setback. Bobby Feagle had a 2" spacer added to it but I'm not using it.

So I'm just running the normal 9.5" setback from the jackplate.

[baja200merk]

Try running a little positive trim when your up around 60 and see what it does then bump it back down around 80. You can see Feagle has a little positive in that pic.

[Da Bull]

Thats what mine had so i don`t think thats the problem. Keep raising the motor. Sounds like your headed in the right direction. I guess all boats don`t come out of the mold equal even at the same weight. My Mirage was the most well behaved boat i ever had. I can`t say the same for my Riot but thats another story.

DB

[kcoleman10]

Yeah that seems the best way for me to run it. I trim up and power through it then lay it back down.

[MODVP22]

I'm very surprised to hear how so many of you say your Mirages porpoise. I could drive mine any speed, the porpoise around 70ish was so mild it was hardly even noticeable. The best handling prop was my 30 cleaver, second was my Lightning Et and third was the Drag 3 (which I had Tim work, because when I first got it, the boat did have slightly more porpoise than with the other props I ran - he fixed it though). My buddy also had a 4 seat Mirage, and it also drove great with almost no porpoise. He ran a 28 Drag 4 on his. He later bought an STV Euro and said he liked his Mirage a lot better. My Mirage was one of the best performing/handling boats I've ever owned!

I'm with you on this one. My RiverRacer (average weight) never porpoises-EVER. I don't ease through the RPM range though-when I want to get it I nail it and go. My brother has a River racer that is very light, and we've yet to have it porpoise.

[baja200merk]

Beefs RR is 1600lbs no driver low fuel ready to go to the water. It is the best handling tunnel ive ever driven. Does nothing funny at all never hops at all.

[RLP]

My Mirage never did any hopping at all.
I did have engine to high once and back tried to come around on me,great ride also.
Almost blew it over so sold.

[Little Jon]

We had very little hop in ours, we ran Cleavers, choppers, ET
s, Yamaha Drags. It had very little. When it did it was around 65-75 and if it did, we just stabbed the throttle and it got out of it very fast... Our prop of choice was a 30 Cleaver

[kcoleman10]

How did you guys running cleavers make out when there were 3 or 4 people in the boat?

[Little Jon]

We really didn't have a issue with ours. our 32 cleaver didn't like it more then 2 iirc. But once it got on plane it was fine. And like i said, once it got to that range it would hop just a tad bit.

[MODVP22]

I've always used Yamaha/ET style props and never had problems.

[Little Jon]

I'd have to agree out 27 Yamaha cut prop never really had any issue.

[baja200merk]

I liked the chopper II 30p for 3-4 people fuel/cooler still ran 104 loaded down carried weight better then the 34 ET I normally ride around with

[Enticer1]

I had a 2007 Ski Racer that Mike M himself told me was a 750 lb. hull. When running alone and with a lite fuel load it had absolutely no hop, although with a full tank it would dam near leap off the surface between 70 and 80. I learned to just drive through it because it would smooth out once past that speed.

[kcoleman10]

I checked my engine height before I went back out tonight for a few laps. I had my trim level and ran a level off the center pad. I measured approx 1 5/8" above the center pad. Which typically I thought was pretty high because from what I've been told most people run their's 3/4" to 1" above the pad. Moving on....I went down and ran it and it seemed better. Still hopping but I felt like I could get through it a little easier when nailing the throttle and getting up into the mid/upper 90's real quick. But when just crusing at 50mph then pegging it the damn boat feels like its going to jump out of the water in the 75mph range. Just a totally messed up situation, there is no consistancy at all with it. I really don't think it fixed the problem 100%.

To throw something else into the mix now to add more stress, I was coming down the river and getting ready to head to the launch and load up and in the middle of the river, my boat shut off. I went to start it back up and it was almost locked up, sounded like a dead battery. After I kept turning the key it would turn over very slow and fire. I was able to run it for 5 seconds then it would shut off. When I reached the trailer I fired it up and it sat there and idled fine and was pumping water good, so I have no idea whats going on with that. I'm going to check some things out tomorrow. Just praying its not a powerhead issue again. My 280 has been giving me numerous headaches over the years with some crank failure and other crap that wiped out my motor on a few occasions.

[RNM018]

Oh Geez .... You do know the name of that boat was , don't you ?

PURPLE PISTON EATER

I certainly hope you have not just had your first failure on your 280 !

Silly Question , on the set up .
Bobby had this boat worked out , and running very strong .
Why would you change a thing ?

Now , I'm not sure how much you weigh , but Bobby is a large man as you know .
So his set up should have been right there for you riding with a buddy , in the front seat .

This is why I personally , have never like a side steer boat .
Smaller boats are very sensitive to weight placement , and very difficult to find a set up that works well , for both riding aloan , and riding with your freinds .

Rich Martin 018

[kcoleman10]

Yeah I'm well aware of the nickname that boat has. Bobby told me all about it.

I bought just the hull and trailer from him. So to answer your question, I guess I didn't really change anything other then putting my motor on it.

I weigh 180lbs. When I was running it tonight, it felt very good when I had it running in the mid to upper 90's. Coming out of it though you get white knuckles b/c it starts hopping around when you drop back into the 70's.

When I run it with a passenger it still handles the same, just doesn't accelerate as hard. It's definately a fast hull. It gets up to 100mph really fast even with a passenger.

[baja200merk]

Neutral trim at 70 is a recipe for HOP....

[toyomirage02]

no doubt bring it back down here and we will show ya how to drive it lol..look at my avatar ..thats jusr gettin ready to start runnin then i layer down and go

[kcoleman10]

Ill try to get some videos of this thing so you guys can see whats going on. I'd love to come down and let someone else drive so they can can see what I'm talking about. My uncle has a place down near Jacksonville. Ponte Verde is where his place is.

I'm still not convinced that there is a hook or belly somewhere on the center pad. Something has to be causing it. Some guys on here say theirs never hops and some have something similiar going on like I have. What i can't get over is the fact that I took my Jaguar Jet and ran an outboard on that and my center pad was no where near flat and perfect and that boat ran as flat as could be. It never acted up.

[kcoleman10]

Well F*** my life. Here are the compression numbers. Doesn't look good. I think I'm officially the unluckiest guy on S&F. Had my 280 5 seasons now I believe. I have had it rebuilt 4 times now. If I'm lucky I get 10 hours on it before it starts losing compression.

133 120
130 120
135 118

[Da Bull]

If I'm lucky I get 10 hours on it before it starts losing compression.





Man you are snakebit! 10hrs ain`t even warmed up good. There has to be something afowl to not last any longer than that!

DB

[kcoleman10]

Snakebit...hell I feel like I've been chewed up and spit out with this thing. I'm about to the point where I'm going to offer someone my powerhead to use during the winter months to put some hours on this thing so I can actually enjoy it with a peice of mind. I'm working with Jay on it to figure out what exactly is going on. Doesn't sound good to me because of it shutting off on me then turning over slow like it was nearly locked up. Now the compression issue. Guess we'll see, but I'm praying for an easy solution.

[kcoleman10]

Whats the best way to get boat turned over to work on the bottom of the hull. I turned over my other one but wasn't happy with my procedure. Just curious to see what others have done and pictures would be nice.

[toyomirage02]

just becuase its a 4 seater dont mean there should be 4 ppl in it lol,make ya buds get there own boat or sit on the shore

[Da Bull]

I`ve turned many boats over to work the bottom and it only takes two people. Slide it off the trailer onto the soft grass. Then depending on the weight get one or more friends and simply roll it over very slowly. There`s many ways to turn your boat over but i`ve never had any problems this way.

DB

[kcoleman10]

Switching gears a little bit here. Started a new thread. Check it out.

http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?276016-1996-Mirage-Jaguar-Ski-Racer-freshened-up&p=2561716&posted=1#post2561716