300x and it's owner go "MAD" stay tuned.....

[R.grover]

Gary so its much quicker that the down draft style now?
What temps do you run in pyro temps? just tryn to get a gauge on 300x temps

[Liberator*21]

Rick,

The MAD intake makes allot of torque all by itself, it was just a matter of figuring out how much EXTRA FUEL was needed off idle to cover all that intake air and well as WOT make up fuel. By volume the MAD intake will flow 2.8 time more air than the std. down draft, so that's one hell'va lot of air to provide extra fuel for on the top end. To run the MAD intake, you'll need to cover the off idle lean condition as well or you'll hit the throttle and it'll just go BLAAAAAAAAA and lay down, super lean condition right off idle. All the mods I've done on this project cover this problem as well, (changing the TPS advance ratio). At WOT I'm running about 1200 degrees, but allot of that is flame as the pyro's/probes are mounted in the exhaust adapter plate. If I had it to do again, I'd have put them in the tuner.

[R.grover]

Gary im running my pyros in the same spot and see about 1560f on a stock 300x.
My modded 3.1L I have run temps from 1200f to 1320f with no issues it makes best power 1230-1250f. im looking at getting the same intake that your running. im running the down draft system with a 4inch butterfly. just like you its a lot of cash just to try by the time I get one to my door is about $2300 my money. so keep us informed and have fun

[Liberator*21]

Gary im running my pyros in the same spot and see about 1560f on a stock 300x.
My modded 3.1L I have run temps from 1200f to 1320f with no issues it makes best power 1230-1250f. im looking at getting the same intake that your running. im running the down draft system with a 4inch butterfly. just like you its a lot of cash just to try by the time I get one to my door is about $2300 my money. so keep us informed and have fun


Rick,
Totally, totally understand the $$$$$ situation, live'n that life here too. The down draft is a good "ALL AROUND" intake, but that's where it stops, but understand there's always a trade off somewhere along the line when doing this stuff. Keep an eye on my postings as someday this setup maybe for sale as I move along to try something else......;). I do allot of this stuff because:

1. I can
2. I have the needed machine tools and knowledge to understand it and make it
3. And best of all......to prove all the nay-sayers wrong (LMAO)
4. And just because I love to tinker is the biggest reason.

[mrcrsr]

Is the top end number any better? I thought that was what you ran before?

[Onetime]

His posts say that the boat ran 80-85 mph before and now 100 mph. That's a huge gain in top end.

The thing that surprises me most is the engine increased that much in power by adding the extra set of injectors along with the Mad front end. No porting or exhaust changes.

You need to Dyno that powerhead and see actual horsepower and torque numbers.

[Dave Strong]

Before the new mad EFI think he ran low 100's

Dave

[Onetime]

If that's the case I stand corrected! Reading the thread the best speeds I saw him post was 80-85.

So your saying he ran 100mph before putting the MAD efi on, put it on and only went 80-85, now back to the original speed?

[Liberator*21]

If that's the case I stand corrected! Reading the thread the best speeds I saw him post was 80-85.

So your saying he ran 100mph before putting the MAD efi on, put it on and only went 80-85, now back to the original speed?

Dave is correct. The MAD intake killed the speed so I'm trying to get back to my best of 104 mph and maybe more.

[Onetime]

I know you're enjoying doing all this, having the time being retired and all. I mean no ill will........but I think I would remove the MAD system and go back to the original.

great thread though and my hats off to your perseverance.

[Dave Strong]

Like Gary said he ain't going to quit till he gets it right. Life is no fun without a few challenges.

Dave

[mrcrsr]

exactly, you never know until you try. if candles worked well and noone tried to improve we'd still be using candles today!

[Liberator*21]

Onetime,
Dave and Charlie are correct, yes I'm retired live'n the life I couldn't earlier and this is the stuff that's keep'n me out of the grave. The only thing that I ever owner in my life that was stock was my Big Wheel, other than that everything I owned since is anything but stock. It's fun for me and challenging which is great for a retired brain....;).

Thanks all, I enjoyed all your comments.:cheers:

[R.grover]

Gray keep up the hard work and just like you say just because it works or don't work for some one dosent mean the same for you. And do think I need more air in my motor

[Liberator*21]

Gray keep up the hard work and just like you say just because it works or don't work for some one dosent mean the same for you. And do think I need more air in my motor

Rick,

Thanks buddy appreciate the comments. The one thing I wanted to prove out is that "FUEL" was the issue or the lack of when using the MAD intake. Charlie will no doubt be going down this road with his 300/Skater but he'll be able to work with his programable WOLF V500 ECU in the fuel curves. That alone may or may not get him where he needs to be, but at least he'll have the advantage of an adjustable ECU for fuel to start with, It'll be very interesting to follow what Charlie does with his setup. I chose not to go that route due to the fact I didn't want to be tuning every time I went out. I once had a Wolf V500 programmable ECU on a 3L/225 EFI Merc, I bought the motor and boat in that condition, but all I ever did was tweek-tweek-tweek. Very touchy to temps, humidity, didn't want to go down that road again, I was looking for a turn key and go setup and I'm very close.

[R.grover]

Gary
yer I don't wana go down that way of having to ajust every time.
I all ready do that with the twin rig I look after with s3000's and brucatos on it.

Im just running one of the fuel computers that simon motorsports did so I can ajust in the fly if I want to.

[R.grover]

Gary any update on how u r getn on?

[PanRonnie]

Rick,

Thanks buddy appreciate the comments. The one thing I wanted to prove out is that "FUEL" was the issue or the lack of when using the MAD intake. Charlie will no doubt be going down this road with his 300/Skater but he'll be able to work with his programable WOLF V500 ECU in the fuel curves. That alone may or may not get him where he needs to be, but at least he'll have the advantage of an adjustable ECU for fuel to start with, It'll be very interesting to follow what Charlie does with his setup. I chose not to go that route due to the fact I didn't want to be tuning every time I went out. I once had a Wolf V500 programmable ECU on a 3L/225 EFI Merc, I bought the motor and boat in that condition, but all I ever did was tweek-tweek-tweek. Very touchy to temps, humidity, didn't want to go down that road again, I was looking for a turn key and go setup and I'm very close.

you do understand that,s never going to happen
basicly you added electrical carburators
one thing i found lacking to wolf support is they send you out with uncalibrated sensor curves
as i saw in charly,s file
you would atleast expect base curve for the most common sensor
but if you take the time to tune these as with any other efi system it will run good in any weather condition if your base fuel map is correct off-course
air temp is already 3.5 % deviation per 10 dgr celcius

[R.grover]

what do you recommend to do this then?

[Liberator*21]

Gary any update on how u r getn on?

Rick,
We're down at the lake and enjoying the 4th of July weekend. Boat is running iffy again. Loaded up twice and fouled out two sets of plugs. Doesn't make allot of sense when it ran perfect at home. Only change is temp an hunidity, both lower than at home. I've got a big week coming up with the grandkids at the lake and I've decided to pull the MAD INTAKE off and go back to the down draft till fall. Just get'n tired of mess' n with it during prime boating season. I'll play with it again in the fall (maybe).......lol.

[PanRonnie]

what do you recommend to do this then?

write down a table with fuel pressure of the secondary injectors versus air temp and barometric pressure
those are the big ones
and check every time before you go out the wheater conditions versus your table
you might even have to change during the day
maybe you can put together a spreadsheet calculator
but it will always be an rough approximation

[Liberator*21]

Thanks Ronnie....... frustration has set in and I'm going to take a break from this set up for awhile. I knew going in it wasn't going to be a walk in the park, just want to enjoy some water time with the o'l turn key set up for awhile as we've got allot of time to spend pan the water this year with the grandkids wanting to learn how to water ski. A break will do me good too......lol.

[mrcrsr]

you do understand that,s never going to happen
basicly you added electrical carburators
one thing i found lacking to wolf support is they send you out with uncalibrated sensor curves
as i saw in charly,s file
you would atleast expect base curve for the most common sensor
but if you take the time to tune these as with any other efi system it will run good in any weather condition if your base fuel map is correct off-course
air temp is already 3.5 % deviation per 10 dgr celcius
ronnie, the calibrations are available for the common engines-gm,ford, chrysler and some imports. i don't remember if i posted how i did it, but basically, the air and coolant temp sensors are the same that i use, so i used a metal can, water, thermometer and a torch, gradually heated the water, with the sensor in it and watched the thermometer to calibrate the temp sensors. wasn't that bad to do. you haven't had the boat out gary?

[mrcrsr]

you do understand that,s never going to happen
basicly you added electrical carburators
one thing i found lacking to wolf support is they send you out with uncalibrated sensor curves
as i saw in charly,s file
you would atleast expect base curve for the most common sensor
but if you take the time to tune these as with any other efi system it will run good in any weather condition if your base fuel map is correct off-course
air temp is already 3.5 % deviation per 10 dgr celcius
ronnie, the calibrations are available for the common engines-gm,ford, chrysler and some imports. i don't remember if i posted how i did it, but basically, the air and coolant temp sensors are the same that i use, so i used a metal can, water, thermometer and a torch, gradually heated the water, with the sensor in it and watched the thermometer to calibrate the temp sensors. wasn't that bad to do. gary, you got a bad taste about the wolf because it wasn't set up properly from the beginning, temp sensors were turned off and not calibrated properly, and i felt the map left something to be desired. on mine, i don't really have to touch it once it was set up. haven't had the laptop in the boat since i played with the mad intake, it has been reliable and trouble free.

[R.grover]

Gary
Its good to hear you got away and haven some fun on the water. good old trusty down draft. theres a nice home here for that mad front:cool:

[Dave Strong]

You need to clear your head and have some fun Gary. Enjoy the grand kids.

Dave

[mrcrsr]

sometimes it gets old playing with the stuff! i need to go back to revisit the mad efi intake on mine, just been so busy with work, its nice to just get in the boat and turn the key and go:D

[R.grover]

Gary
How r ya goin bud? haven fun with the grandkids?

[Liberator*21]

Rick,

Have'n a great time with them. Weather could be allot warmer though, and rain off and on, but that doesn't keep them out of the lake........LOL. I have to say I'm a little spoiled, I'm already missing the torque output from the MAD Intake.......:(.

[R.grover]

good to hear your haven fun and hope you get some better warm weather

[Da Bull]

Gary or Charlie, I have an idea but based on my limited knowledge of the 300pm fuel/firing system i may be off the wall here. I have the MAD three horn with the twin computers and had the same flat spots ya`ll speak of off idal and low rpm. I boosted my fuel psi to 42lbs and it helped a great deal but of coarse it now runs rich up top. My question is about the tpi. Do you know which wire controls the fuel and which one controls the spark. I`m thinking that if i could add a second tpi above the one on there and split the fuel/spark advance up giving me the ability to adjust them seperatly. Am i crazy or do ya`ll think this would work?

DB

[Liberator*21]

DB,

I haven't a clue, hope maybe Charlie knows...............good luck.

[PanRonnie]

Gary or Charlie, I have an idea but based on my limited knowledge of the 300pm fuel/firing system i may be off the wall here. I have the MAD three horn with the twin computers and had the same flat spots ya`ll speak of off idal and low rpm. I boosted my fuel psi to 42lbs and it helped a great deal but of coarse it now runs rich up top. My question is about the tpi. Do you know which wire controls the fuel and which one controls the spark. I`m thinking that if i could add a second tpi above the one on there and split the fuel/spark advance up giving me the ability to adjust them seperatly. Am i crazy or do ya`ll think this would work?

DB

why not invest in an aftermarket ecu ?

[Da Bull]

Good idea but.who makes one to replace the stock 3.0L twin ones?

I think i will just do some expeirmenting by adding another tpi and play around with the wires to figure out which ones do what. I love the performance that the MAD three horn delivers
and it`s night and day differance from the stock laser type.

DB

[PanRonnie]

your engine probably has the capacitive discharge ignition
http://boatinfo.no/lib/mercury/manuals/225-225efi-250efi-3lit.html#/68

flywheel arrangement should be 24 missing 2? so 22 teeth
depending on how the CDM,s are triggered active high or active low
meaning ignition is either triggered by a 5 volt pulse or by being pulled low
an other solution would be to remove the cdm,s and stator and go with the 300X inductive coils
since you already have an alternator

now you could use any ecu without a problem
i like megasquirt but,s it,s not for everybody
since charly is already working on a similar engine like yours with the mad intake
a wolf ecu might be something for you
5 volt ignition logic level output
peak and hold injector drivers
i don,t think he will mind sharing his engine map with you

[Da Bull]

Ronnie, Here`s the thing. I ain`t that smart on electrics. I have read all of Charlie`s post`s as well as Gary`s and it may as well be written in French. I do thank you for the input tho.

After my lil test and depending on how it goes my next step will be to remove all of the fuel and firing system and install a 260-drag type. I already have all the parts to make the 2.5 flywheel, stator, trigger bolt up. The biggest pain was to have a special hub made for the flywheel.

I`m gonna bow out of Gary`s thread now because i think my original question has been answered,

DB

[PanRonnie]

thought i try it again :)
this is all you need
6 times logic level output
everything hooks right up
and if you want a piece of custom code for that 60-6 crank wheel :thumbsup:

if that intake is a good idea ! that,s another story

[powerabout]

anyone know where to get the individual injector hold down clamps as opposed the the Merc dual style ( custom inlet)?
Many thanks

[mrcrsr]

try to check kinsler's website

[powerabout]

try to check kinsler's website
good call but cant see them there

[Da Bull]

Update on the Taylor three horn installed on a twin pack 300 ProMax. I sold all my 3.0L stuff but a bud went down the same road as me and I helped his with his setup. Concerning the flat spots I have some new info. Shaun Torrente down in Florida has come up with a little gizmo that's so simple it stinks. It simply advances the TPI ahead of the throttle blades by using a carb cam and both come to wide open throttle at the same time. Bottom line is that it solved the problem of flat spots all together. Amazing that something so simple is all it took. I think the cost was about $150 bucks.
If I ever get another 300PM you can bet I will find a Taylor three horn because of the power it creates and install one of these little gizmo`s.



DB

[R.grover]

do you have a pic?

[Da Bull]

No but Shaun does.