New to tunnel boats, looking to learn

[JohnnyTwoShoes]

I hope I don't get flamed here but tunnel boat racing was a dream I've had since I was knee high (I'm 23 with a stable flying job in the military now); but I always thought it was one of those unobtainable activities or careers (like being an astronaut or something). Well, I live pretty much on the ocean now which only fueled my passion for boats, specifically tunnel boats. After doing some research I couldn't believe how cheap closed cockpit tunnel boats are, I saw a list of them ready to race and the most expensive boat was 12,000! I call them "closed cockpit" because I have no idea what I should be calling them, and thus the purpose of this thread is revealed.
I'm Looking for information on Tunnel Boats. Thinks to keep in mind when buying one, life span of parts, different manufactures, exc. I keep seeing F1, F2, and F3 boats, whats that all about? I also saw a gentlemen here selling a beautiful 16' SST-120. That style of boat Is exactly what I'm looking for but sadly, know nothing about. What does SST denote? What does "120" mean? I will be attending racing school next year for capsule training, exc but I would prefer to go into the school armed with knowledge of varying manufactures, boat designs, classifications, features, exc. What are the different "parts" of the boat, common phrases I should know, exc. I'm a sponge, if you provide the information I will do my best to soak it up.

[Rayzor]

SST120 is the class designation for Super Stock Tunnel 120 cubic inch. The class is comprised of 16' - 17' capsuled tunnel boats (both wood and composite) with 120 cubic inch (2.0 liter) carbureted Mercury race engines. The class is the same as F2. It would take hours to explain all there is to tunnel boat racing, but if you have cash-in-hand and are serious about getting into racing, contact Chris Fairchild at chris@fairchildracing.com. Be prepared to spend around $20k to get into the sport. I sold my beautiful Revolution SST120 a couple years ago to a guy in Louisiana for $15k, plus you'll need another $5k in safety gear and spare parts to actually go racing. You can find used SST120s for less than $15k, but they probably won't be competitive rigs. Be sure to check and make sure there is club racing for the class in your area, or be prepared to do a LOT of cross-country driving. Good luck!

[racerx]

Call Chris Fairchild in IL hem might be listed in the town of paw paw state of IL,,he will tell you everything...

[JohnnyTwoShoes]

Thanks for the info guys. You mentioned it would take hours to explain it all, well I'm deployed at the moment so hours is what I have, haha. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure I can be serious about racing just yet, how practical is it to own one of these boats and simply take it out on the lake to have fun with? That's not to say I wouldn't race though (if I'm not doing 100mph, I'm not happy). I'd love to know all that anyone has to offer. I've seen several posts mentioned 100% ready to race boats for around $5k, should I be leery of these or is it simply because they are used or a little older? What parts brake the most? are these types of boats complete money pits or can they withstand their own for awhile as long as their taken care of? How practical is it to repair the boat yourself? How many different classes are their that use the tunnel boat body with the closed capsule? And are some classes cheaper to get into than others of those that are closed capsule tunnels?
- Bring on the information, I appreciate every bit of it, Thanks a ton.

[Rayzor]

If you're just getting into the sport, get into an SST45. Chris Fairchild would again be your point of contact for this class.

[Capt.Insane-o]

sst120 prolly not the best place to start your learning curve. :)

[JohnnyTwoShoes]

I kind of feel like I need some information on the sport before I call this guy, I wouldn't want to waste his time ya know. That's why I started a topic here. Why would SST-120 be a poor starting point? Are they far more expensive to operate or something? I keep seeing "boat" for $X and "turn key" for $X. I'm assuming turn key is referring to the motor itself or is my assumption incorrect? Just for pricing example, Here's a post I saw. http://www.hydroracer.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13689&highlight=sst45 , and just for pokes and laughs, a second reference: http://www.powerboatnationals.com/#!race-boats/c1ha8

[pointer]

Turning the key and keeping yourself safe are two different things, and why suggestions of the 45 class.
When you learned to fly, did the military start you in the fighter jet? Probably not, and with good reason.

Be safe and enjoy!

pointer

[JohnnyTwoShoes]

Ok, so I'm assuming then that the 120 is a larger class of boat than the 45, which makes sense. As for the Turn-Key thing, of course safety is a high priority of mine, I take it very seriously and I intend to get all the training I can before racing. I still, however, do not quite understand what the difference between turn-key and boat are. I can assume that the boat would mean the entire craft minus engine and turn-key (when listed separately) would mean just the engine, But I'm not 100% sure. The first link lists these items separately which led to my assumptions.

[Hot Shot Merc]

My suggestion would be to take some time reading from this site about different non race hulls,engines,set ups etc and maybe even buy a used STV,Mirage or Quartershot and learn the ropes by getting to know hi perf pleasure boats before racing. These type of boats can teach you a lot as well as play on the river or lake on the weekends. Are you familiar with these boats ive mentioned? Any of them will get you into the 100's with stock 200 hp engines.

[Mr. Demeanor]

Basics:

What is your current boating experience?

[JohnnyTwoShoes]

Honestly, none. My experience is pretty much non-existent. I raced dirt bikes, then moved to racing my Ducati 848 around the track but I'm selling her and looking to get into boat racing. I would prefer not to spend money on a boat design I don't like. By that I mean a non SST boat design. I wouldn't at all mind beginning with the smaller SST-45 class, after all, it is what several of the training courses use. I really have no desire to own other types of hull based boats, though I do recognize a need to understand their hull designs. If it counts, I have a seedoo I like to ride around the lake quite often but I doubt that will do much in helping pave the way for these types of machines. Just to kick this out there, I live in Charleston, South Carolina. For the most part I'm seeing outboard watercraft but the inboard watercraft look just as enticing. Are those craft more expensive than the outboards?

[PARKER RABE]

i have a 2 seater f1 boat, come to florida and ill take you for a ride....will see how u hold up goin into a turn at 100, that will help u make your decision:)

[JohnnyTwoShoes]

HAHA, I bet. Do you find you can use your boat in the ocean at all or strictly in the lake? Have any of you had any experience with the inboard AND outboard tunnel boats and could share which you preferred?

[Hot Shot Merc]

Seriously, is this a joke?

[JohnnyTwoShoes]

Not at all, I'm assuming your talking about whether these craft can operate in the ocean or not. I'm sure no but I figured I'd ask.

[strongback]

OK Fu#k it I'll bite..... I have been racing all kinds of things since I can remember. I have been on the water my whole life. Im 36 now and have been fairly serious about smaller fast Tunnel and pad Vee boats for 4-5 years or so. Keep in mind that these boats are different than anything else. Listen to me when I tell you this, There is a lot to learn even getting into a ''non'' race version of these boats. It is a walk before run type of sport. Seriously, with all due respect take the time to read all you can here on Scream and Fly before jumping the gun. Using the search bar type in words like ''turn key'' and ''ocean going craft'' set up, Blow over, stuffed, Tunnels packing with pressure, Hop at 70ish, Life line, Chopper, cleaver, et, 3 blade vs 4 blade, lift, set back, Mercury 175 200 240 260 280 300 promax,2.4 2.5, Brucado, Drag race, JSRE, CCMS, Simon,Pro Marine. Those key words will lead you to all kinds of info from guys on here that know exactly what they are talking about. Find a rig for sale here that is a tunnel hull and see if you like it. I can recommend one if you like? You can sell it and move on if you don't. It took me a very long time to figure out how to handle one of these type boats safely and had a lot of help from the guys here. Thanks Fellas! If you do not do your homework on ''Tunnel boats'' or start out on the river on the weekends on a pleasure boat, you will not be able to compete in any race and you will kill your self or someone else. To answer your questions about these boats being ocean going craft..... Think Lawn Dart, Think life raft. Also, Turn key is..... Turn the key and go. Everything is ready to go, boat and motor as a package. Good luck to you. Quinton

[tony97gt]

I don't race anything but I've been boating my entire life pretty much. I've only recently gotten into the world of high performance about 2 years ago. I can tell you this, you've been given some good advice here. Stay away from those race boats until you learn somrthing about boating. That's like giving a 16 year old who just got his license an new lamborghini to drive. No disrespect, but it's a sport where one crash can be your last crash. If you're lucky to survive it, you may be rolling in a chair for the rest of your life. Not to say it can't happen in a non-race boat, especially because us non-racers have considerably less safety equipment (capsules, on board air, etc), but you need to start small like a talon/stv/mirage and learn from that. Not to mention you can pack some chicks in there on the weekend and hit some cool stops. Buy it, learn it, then sell it if you don't like it. But get some seat time first and then make your way up. Just my advice. Get something "turn key" so you don't have to try and figure out setting it up yourself, just sit in it and start driving.

[JohnnyTwoShoes]

I'm not one to cast aside good advice. Thanks for it all, I appreciate it. I did not intend to portray an attitude of "jumping the gun", though I can see how it may appear so. I'll use all those key words you've offered in my endeavors of searching, thank you. So, should I take it as, I need to start on an open cockpit before I enter a closed cockpit? and if so, should I begin this before I go to the school that teaches capsule ditch training and so on? I like the idea of the tunnel boats with closed cockpits because they seem safer and more inline with my interests, but if the suggested route is to start open cockpit, I can't argue with experience.

[tony97gt]

I'm not one to cast aside good advice. Thanks for it all, I appreciate it. I did not intend to portray an attitude of "jumping the gun", though I can see how it may appear so. I'll use all those key words you've offered in my endeavors of searching, thank you. So, should I take it as, I need to start on an open cockpit before I enter a closed cockpit? and if so, should I begin this before I go to the school that teaches capsule ditch training and so on? I like the idea of the tunnel boats with closed cockpits because they seem safer and more inline with my interests, but if the suggested route is to start open cockpit, I can't argue with experience.
Being a fomer Marine and knowing how little free time you have in the military, my question to you is: what are your final intentions? Are you planning on racing and competing, or are you just looking to go out to the lake/river and haul @$$? Because with the amount of money and training needed to invest into the race boats, if you aren't planning on competing I would say why waste all that on a boat your just going to use to go fast and can't take passengers/coolers/beer, etc? You get yourself an STV with a 280 on it and your looking at speeds like 115mph +/- depending on your setup. I'd say that type of speed in a small boat should fulfill your desire to go fast if you aren't looking to compete, and you can get more use ouot of it on weekends with friends.

[Hot Shot Merc]

I'm not one to cast aside good advice. Thanks for it all, I appreciate it. I did not intend to portray an attitude of "jumping the gun", though I can see how it may appear so. I'll use all those key words you've offered in my endeavors of searching, thank you. So, should I take it as, I need to start on an open cockpit before I enter a closed cockpit? and if so, should I begin this before I go to the school that teaches capsule ditch training and so on? I like the idea of the tunnel boats with closed cockpits because they seem safer and more inline with my interests, but if the suggested route is to start open cockpit, I can't argue with experience.Glad to see your finaly actualy taking in the advice and not casting it aside. What tony97gt is telling you is exactly what I was trying to tell you that you did in fact cast aside. Racerx gave you great advice too and trust me he is one you should listen to. Tony97gt's first words were"f$#k it I'll bite" He said that and I asked if you are serious or if this is a joke because it seems like you are fishing and we are little dumb fish taking the trol bait LOL!! Hopefuly you arent and if your for real here then you need to take eberything Tony and I said very seriously..... Capsule boats arent safe unless there are experienced dive crews on site to save your but in the event you endup upside down and unconcious. A little common sense will go a long way. Now go look up STV River Rocket or Quartershot t3 or Mirage River Racer. These are great open cockpit modified tunnel boats that will teach you the ropes and give you the experience you will need to grow in the sport of tunel boat racing. By the way these are not true tunnels. They all have a center pod and dont pack as much air as a true tunnel thus beeing much safer. By the way. WEAR YOUR LIFELINE LIFE JACKET!!!!:cool:

[HStream1]

Johnnytwoshoes:

While some of the members posts here may seem sarcastic. They really are not. There is not a member on S&F that wants to share advice that will get a inexperienced boater (like yourself) injured or killed. And frankly what you are seeking is going to do just that IMO.

If you want to learn highperformance boating start with a padded v hull. LEARN TO DRIVE THE DAM THING. Then graduate to a air entrapment style hull etc etc. For a inexperienced boater to jump into any tripple didget water rocket is a catastraphy waiting to happen. There are way to many things to learn while operating a boat like most of us have. And what you feel in the seat of your ass and steering wheel can possibly save your keester from injury, death and a destroyed high dollar boat and motor. OH and proper set up, set up, set up. Did I mention Set Up?

I can't count on both hands the times I refused to sell one of my boats because the potential buyer was in experienced. And thank GOD I can sleep at night because of that.

Even the most experienced high performance drivers can experience disaster in a nano second.

Heres a link to a video that might help you some. While the whole video/documentry is worth watching sense you have all that time on your hands:D. The real action begins at just under the 18 minute mark. This video was done down in Georgia and includes Mr. Screamandfly himself (Greg Terzian, Jay Smith), Helmut's STV, Norris' STV, Tony Brucatos Hydra-Sports, Ronnie's Viper, and Mike Bates' DR-20.) All very highly respected S&F members.


http://www.hulu.com/watch/347740/marine-machines-the-worlds-fastest-boats
(http://www.hulu.com/watch/347740/marine-machines-the-worlds-fastest-boats)

[stv92]

100% agree with everyone,
raced sst45 for years and drive a stv with 2.5 and a 30ft awesomecat with 3 2.5.

not only worry about you but also the other 15+ drivers on the course.
not only yourself racing and want to live.

capsule boats are not pleasure boats.

even a stv with 200-300hp is a dangerous machine.

not like being on the road.
wind, waves, water condition, etc,,

if your serious, buy a tunnel boat to play on the lake,
but take the race class sst45, it is less cost and will give you an idea if thats what
you want to do,
race site is not the place to learn to drive for the first time.
ps: i have 2 sst45 boats if you want to jump on board..
just my 2 cents :)

[simplyorange]

I'm a newer boat owner as well, although I grew up driving them. and I see what is happeneing. you think that to have fun in a boat you have to race it. this is not true, I too Do spoortbike track days where it is fun to have grudge races etc. but in boats, you will be suprised how much fun you will have in a pleasure boat at 70mph. one thing that came to my mind was that you are not prepared for the maintenance cost of a race boat. try owning a pleasure boat and see how the maintenance work takes a toll on you. if you dont know how to work on your own boat then its a bank breaker. this site will teach you tons about what boat you need/want, what engine combo would fit you. and how to maintenance all of it properly. i bet iuf you buy an stv or mirage itll take you a long time to want to upgrade and when you do itll just be for a bigger pleasure boat.

[tony97gt]

I'm a newer boat owner as well, although I grew up driving them. and I see what is happeneing. you think that to have fun in a boat you have to race it. this is not true, I too Do spoortbike track days where it is fun to have grudge races etc. but in boats, you will be suprised how much fun you will have in a pleasure boat at 70mph. one thing that came to my mind was that you are not prepared for the maintenance cost of a race boat. try owning a pleasure boat and see how the maintenance work takes a toll on you. if you dont know how to work on your own boat then its a bank breaker. this site will teach you tons about what boat you need/want, what engine combo would fit you. and how to maintenance all of it properly. i bet iuf you buy an stv or mirage itll take you a long time to want to upgrade and when you do itll just be for a bigger pleasure boat.
I couldn't agree more. I am actually selling my 18' Talon which was my first high perf boat that I learned to drive. I ended up getting a bigger 24' Skater and I'm upgrading the engines to 280's. Trust me it will be fast enough for me in the 110-115mph range. The Skater is a true tunnel hull world champion offshore race hull. It's the one in my pic. Not a capsule boat but still fun to drive and is a great pleasure and sandbar boat. Check out the thread in the for sale section for my 18' Talon if you want something nice that is turn key and a great platform to learn. With the right setup it is a 100mph boat. Not a true tunnel so it's safer. Best of luck with whatever you get and drive safely. Always come to the forum when you have questions, there are a lot of very nice and knowledgable people here. And put up some pics of your new boat once you get it.

[JohnnyTwoShoes]

tony97gt, no offense, but if your a marine you have absolutely no idea how much free time I have. I'm not a marine, the air force handles its inner structure differently and beyond that, I fly. Even if you were, you know different jobs have different requirements and schedules, just because were in the armed forces does not mean our work schedules are the same. Regardless, I have given it thought and after searching these forums and others outside S&F, I've decided racing is where I want to go. I'd be lying if I said the speed of these tunnel boats wasn't an attractive force however, I continue to see people mention casting tunnel boats aside and getting beer and friends to enjoy the boat. I know that is not what I want to do. I do want to end up in tunnel boats. I say end up, because I can see you all feel strongly that I should start in something more easily controllable with much less power so that's what I'll do; thank you for offering a few boat suggestions to learn on, I appreciate it. I know all too well not to enter a race with no experience in racing, as I've mentioned previously, I raced on dirt then on road courses. I wouldn't appreciate someone racing next to me at high speeds on the road course who didn't know how to handle their bike. That is not what I intend to do on water. If I may, I'd like to continue the post with an underlying understood goal of getting into racing. So all the same questions still apply, mechanics, cost, exc - though in this regard, they may not specifically apply to racing as it can be assumed I will be learning in a boat not unlike one of those previously mentioned. I kind of feel like, many of you assume if you "arm" me with knowledge I'm going to go out and buy one of these race boats the next day; that mentality can be cast aside, that is and never was what I was intending on doing. I would however, like to apologize for the assumption that I could start on one of these high performance machines, I can now see how that would raise a few eye brows among you all. As always, I do appreciate the information.
Anyway: To make proper use of this post, I have to ask something, haha. Those boats mentioned, that are good to start on; do those boats handle similar to the tunnel boats? Basically, I'm wondering what skills carry over from a non race to a race. I often hear drivers speak about sitting the boat right at the edge, I imagine with that much of the boat out of the water, it handles quite differently, do any starter boats give that sort of feel but with a more forgiving aspect to them, for a good learning environment?

[HStream1]

Refer back to post #22. I'm Outta here. GOOD LUCK!!! :leaving:



tony97gt, no offense, but if your a marine you have absolutely no idea how much free time I have. I'm not a marine, the air force handles its inner structure differently and beyond that, I fly. Even if you were, you know different jobs have different requirements and schedules, just because were in the armed forces does not mean our work schedules are the same. Regardless, I have given it thought and after searching these forums and others outside S&F, I've decided racing is where I want to go. I'd be lying if I said the speed of these tunnel boats wasn't an attractive force however, I continue to see people mention casting tunnel boats aside and getting beer and friends to enjoy the boat. I know that is not what I want to do. I do want to end up in tunnel boats. I say end up, because I can see you all feel strongly that I should start in something more easily controllable with much less power so that's what I'll do; thank you for offering a few boat suggestions to learn on, I appreciate it. I know all too well not to enter a race with no experience in racing, as I've mentioned previously, I raced on dirt then on road courses. I wouldn't appreciate someone racing next to me at high speeds on the road course who didn't know how to handle their bike. That is not what I intend to do on water. If I may, I'd like to continue the post with an underlying understood goal of getting into racing. So all the same questions still apply, mechanics, cost, exc - though in this regard, they may not specifically apply to racing as it can be assumed I will be learning in a boat not unlike one of those previously mentioned. I kind of feel like, many of you assume if you "arm" me with knowledge I'm going to go out and buy one of these race boats the next day; that mentality can be cast aside, that is and never was what I was intending on doing. I would however, like to apologize for the assumption that I could start on one of these high performance machines, I can now see how that would raise a few eye brows among you all. As always, I do appreciate the information.
Anyway: To make proper use of this post, I have to ask something, haha. Those boats mentioned, that are good to start on; do those boats handle similar to the tunnel boats? Basically, I'm wondering what skills carry over from a non race to a race. I often hear drivers speak about sitting the boat right at the edge, I imagine with that much of the boat out of the water, it handles quite differently, do any starter boats give that sort of feel but with a more forgiving aspect to them, for a good learning environment?

[tony97gt]

Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying. What I meant was having free time to travel and compete with racing. It's kind of hard in the military, period. It's not like most other jobs but hey, maybe I'm wrong. Sat n Sun were my days off most of the time, but since I was Infantry then there were weeks or even months where I was out in the field or deployed to other countries.

[tony97gt]

Refer back to post #22. I'm Outta here. GOOD LUCK!!! :leaving:
:iagree:

[simplyorange]

what they are trying to say is that buying one of these boats for a starter and practicing in it would be like a 18 year old kid buying a full out Valentine Rossi spec moto GP bike as a first ride.a 110mph turn in a boat is like doing a 165mph turn on a bike.

[JohnnyTwoShoes]

tony97gt; I work when I fly, and I have 2 deployments each year, 2 months each but I really do get a lot of time off. Hsteam, never thanked you for video, so thank you. I'm curious why the apprehension to share information? I've already said I want to work from a starter boat and go from there and yet more of you seem to think otherwise.

[Hot Shot Merc]

You learn by doing. Of course these types of boats weve mentioned share the characteristics of a tunnel. Thats why we are telling you to start out with something that you can learn and get a "seat of the pants" type feel for this type of boating first. You have A LOT TO LEARN. In time you learn what the boat is telling you it wants and doesnt want. You have to be on and off the trim button and that feel of what it needs only comes with time and seat of the pants experience. You need to learn to read the water ahead and wind as well as what to do in these elements. There is a fine line between over trimming a boat and going over and beeing right on the edge. You will never know that point without doing it over time. I as well as many others here have seen our friends die so you must understand we take this stuff very serious. Set up is important. Engine hight,set back,trim angle,CG (CENTER OF GRAVITY) balance etc. You said in your first post that you are eager to learn,that you are like a sponge and will do your best to soak it all up. So far you havent been doing a very good job at that. Again I will say that stv,quartershot and mirage boats are all very similar to a true tunnel in many ways only difference is there is a center pod or center sponson instead of just the two outside. More stable but will react the same to trim and the learning curve you will need to go through. Its up to you but when you ask people and then shoot their input down then well your input from people will slowly fade and they will be likely to like Bud said "im outa here good luck!:leaving:

[Hot Shot Merc]

Heres a few examples of my past STV and a couple quartershots. The blue one is not mine but you get the point. look how it flys at 125 mph. As you can see they are very similar to a tunnel boat.281286281287281288281289281290

[JohnnyTwoShoes]

If I may be so blunt, those are very attractive boats. I'm actually currently watching that video offered and I recognize many of those hauls from that video. Does anyone have anymore videos? This one is a terrific source of information. Those hauls that incorporate the hydraulic pad underneath are crazy, I don't know how you gentlemen control them with such little surface contact. The STV's look remarkably similar to the tunnel boats with capsules, other than less wind resistance what does the capsule really offer? I didn't realize how much less control was available at those kinds of speeds. Would I be able to get an STV with less power to learn on? I understand that these boats need to go a certain speed to get out of the water and ride the way they do so I guess my actual question is, what would be a good starting motor to go with?

[Hot Shot Merc]

We control them with so little surface contact through seat time. Its a balancing act. Its also kindof like a big lever and you counter stear the boat to keep it up on the pad when it wants to chine from side to side. Much easier with a modvp (stv,q shot,mirage ect) The capsule offers saftey. You are five point harnessed in. You stay with the boat when it rolls or goes over. Thats why they are only good for racing period when theres a dive crew around to come save your life in the event your knocked unconcious. Open cockpit boats eject you away from the boat. You dont want to drown. Youtube has a gazzilion videos to watch. Just search stv or Mercury ect and start learning. By the way thanks for serving our country:cheers:

[tony97gt]

Here are a few of my talon

http://youtu.be/6kMfzEKFbaE

[tony97gt]

http://youtu.be/JmTmcu_XY3Y

[JohnnyTwoShoes]

If you don't mind me asking, why did many of you choose outboard vs inboard? I hear the costs are higher than outboard with inboard but I would assume it would be a far more efficient power delivery method. Btw, that is a phenomenal rig.

[rkmirage]

If you don't mind me asking, why did many of you choose outboard vs inboard? I hear the costs are higher than outboard with inboard but I would assume it would be a far more efficient power delivery method. Btw, that is a phenomenal rig.Outboards give better power to weight ratio and put the motor behind instead of in the boat and gives the ability of adjusting where the motor (setback) is relevant to the boat.

[tony97gt]

And in my opinion Outboards are easier to work on and maintain. Everything in one unit.

[tony97gt]

My Talon was a great boat to learn on. Once you get it up on plane every bump of the trim or the jackplate creates some sort of noticeable input that causes the boat to react. Whether it's feeling the boat lift out of the water more, watching the rpm's climb, watching the tach climb, watching the water pressure drop, or just feeling the boat walking on water. All that input and adjusting is what you need to learn just going straight as an arrow, and then you start considering turning at high speeds with a race boat.

[Hot Shot Merc]

A stock 200 is a great starting platform with an stv,mirage,q shot,tallon etc. There are many for sale loook in the buy and sell forums here on this site at "hulls under 20'"

For example If you lined up two boats one with a 700 hp big block and the other with a 300 outboard the race would be very close. Like others said already hp to weight is much better. Also you heard wrong. You can buy two 700 hp engines for what some guys have in their merc 2.5 300 drag. The last new 2.5 280 hp merc I bought new cost $16,000. A merc Drag is $21,000...But used 200's are relatively affordable.

[simplyorange]

If you don't mind me asking, why did many of you choose outboard vs inboard? I hear the costs are higher than outboard with inboard but I would assume it would be a far more efficient power delivery method. Btw, that is a phenomenal rig.

my opinion: no collapsed lifters(or constant lifter adjustments on solid rollers),cam lobe wear,timing chain breakage/wear,leaky header gaskets,bent pushrods,bent valves,leaking valve seals,broken valve springs,or water intrusion....and the list goes on.

on an outboard you keep an eye on your fuel delivery, keep good reeds in it and monitor compression in it and it runs.maybe a switch box or stator every noe and then.

I/O motors might be decently affordable to build but if you want to run 90 in a I/O boat the amount of power you have to make usuallly requires a pretty expensive outdrive.

[JohnnyTwoShoes]

Well from the sounds of it, and research I've done thus far, I have a ways to go before I'll need to worry about adding more power ;). Hey Merc, I'm really leaning towards a Talon, I've read great things about them and it seems like the transition from one of them to a capsule tunnel would be the smoothest. What did you find were the operational costs of yours (tank fills, general wear-and-tear maintenance, exc)? As a side note, I'm used to wearing a 5-point harness, would it be ill-advised to install one on a one of these?

[strongback]

Yes, in my opinion it is a very bad idea to be strapped into a boat. Think about wearing a seatbelt on a motor cycle.... Its a bad idea... However a Talon is a good idea! Good luck to ya.

[tony97gt]

My talon has an 18 gallon tank, so do the math on premium fuel per gallon in your area. Also consider about half gallon of oil ($15) per complete 18 gallon fill of tank. Annual maintenance is really just water pump kit ($40), spark plugs ($50), fuel filters ($40), grease for bearings on trailer and fittings on motor ($10). And all that is considering you use the boat twice a month. Some people don't even do those maintenance items every year, I'm just a little anal. Like my stuff to start every time. If you get a boat with twins then double that cost.

[tony97gt]

And def no harness!! Just a kill switch lanyard, good life vest, and fire extinguisher/flares. If you turn over the boat you want to be as far away as possible, not unconscious and upside down underwater.

[tony97gt]

You ever buy something?

[MUDSHARK]

Ok everybody please correct me if Im wrong... I am all the time but that's how I learned everything I know. This thread is kinda offending to me. I have been around boats my whole life and some of my best memories and best decisions in life evolved around boats. I cant stand the fact that 90% of people on the water and some people on this site just think that anyone with enough money to buy a boat is automatically a boater. THIS IS A JOKE! THIS SPORT IS NOT. We all want to have fun but I would feel a lot safer on the water without another Barney like this one riding on the river in ANY kind of fast boat. Especially in the Charleston area where I live now. Im sick of seeing the average punk on the water in any boat that can kill him self, the people with him, the people riding next to him, or even the kids close to shore swimming in the water. What is this site coming to? I really like the way we can all talk freely about our problems and experience's but I don't go around telling anyone to go out and buy a fast boat. The more I read this post all I kept saying is WTF!!!!! I just got done talking to a friend of mine about crap like this who has flipped 3 tunnel boats in 40 years or driving and walked away from them all. He kept telling me never do this... don't do that... watch out for this... and I don't know how im alive after that... I could have told him yea yea I know, but at least Im smart enough to just listen and think about it being me in his shoes. I don't know who this kid is but I hope I never see him on the water, even on his F#%king sea doo. This sport means a lot to me and the most it has taught me about life is RESPECT. I hope everybody doesn't think im being harsh or out of line but if you do I could care less. Im not here to teach everyone in the world how to drive a boat im only on here to learn what the best way is to not end up dead doing what I love... and find some parts... and get setup advice... and get to listen to the mistakes other have made... and share some moments with people that have the same passion as I have because boating is my life. Its my drug, and its what keeps me out of trouble (JAIL). It has been the best influence on my life for a reason. I think I got a little deep but I had a long day at work and the Johnnie Walker is doing some of the talking.

[tony97gt]

Ok everybody please correct me if Im wrong... I am all the time but that's how I learned everything I know. This thread is kinda offending to me. I have been around boats my whole life and some of my best memories and best decisions in life evolved around boats. I cant stand the fact that 90% of people on the water and some people on this site just think that anyone with enough money to buy a boat is automatically a boater. THIS IS A JOKE! THIS SPORT IS NOT. We all want to have fun but I would feel a lot safer on the water without another Barney like this one riding on the river in ANY kind of fast boat. Especially in the Charleston area where I live now. Im sick of seeing the average punk on the water in any boat that can kill him self, the people with him, the people riding next to him, or even the kids close to shore swimming in the water. What is this site coming to? I really like the way we can all talk freely about our problems and experience's but I don't go around telling anyone to go out and buy a fast boat. The more I read this post all I kept saying is WTF!!!!! I just got done talking to a friend of mine about crap like this who has flipped 3 tunnel boats in 40 years or driving and walked away from them all. He kept telling me never do this... don't do that... watch out for this... and I don't know how im alive after that... I could have told him yea yea I know, but at least Im smart enough to just listen and think about it being me in his shoes. I don't know who this kid is but I hope I never see him on the water, even on his F#%king sea doo. This sport means a lot to me and the most it has taught me about life is RESPECT. I hope everybody doesn't think im being harsh or out of line but if you do I could care less. Im not here to teach everyone in the world how to drive a boat im only on here to learn what the best way is to not end up dead doing what I love... and find some parts... and get setup advice... and get to listen to the mistakes other have made... and share some moments with people that have the same passion as I have because boating is my life. Its my drug, and its what keeps me out of trouble (JAIL). It has been the best influence on my life for a reason. I think I got a little deep but I had a long day at work and the Johnnie Walker is doing some of the talking.
Hello Mr. Walker, tell us how you really feel. LOL. Nah you just said what most of us were thinking. Just not as politically correct I guess you could say. :iagree:

[MUDSHARK]

Hello Mr. Walker, tell us how you really feel. LOL. Nah you just said what most of us were thinking. Just not as politically correct I guess you could say. :iagree: I was beginning to think I had chosen the wrong sport because I see more of this every time im on the river.

[MUDSHARK]

What IS politicly correct anymore... Its 2013 isn't it!

[tony97gt]

I was beginning to think I had chosen the wrong sport because I see more of this every time im on the river.
I live in south fla and you should see the @$$holes on jet skis down here. Unreal the crap they pull. They also don't feel that NO WAKE zones apply to jet skis.

[MUDSHARK]

LOL what is politicly. I cant even use spell check right lol

[MUDSHARK]

I live in south fla and you should see the @$$holes on jet skis down here. Unreal the crap they pull. They also don't feel that NO WAKE zones apply to jet skis. I here ya. I grew up in Tampa and my parents would take me to the ramps on the Hillsborough river just to laugh at the barneys when I was a kid. Its too bad the cant buy brains!

[dumbnfun2]

Hey mud ... Remember that first vector that guy sold u ...? He warned u of how evil and dangerous it was and we respected that thing we were scared of it . And when years later , I sold a vking to pnut farmer I tried to talk him out of it .... And he respected it and learned how to drive safely . Now I didn't read the whole thread but if no one is telln this guy to wear safety gear and learn from one of the guys on here the ins an out and how not to die ....... Then it should b said .... But just b careful pls .... And wear safety gear and don't drink and fly :) we leave the booze on the dock and drink when were done keep it safe and have fun :) even if ur being dumb :) cuz if ur gonna b dumb u gotta b tough ..... ( mom told me that :) )

[Hot Shot Merc]

Ok everybody please correct me if Im wrong... I am all the time but that's how I learned everything I know. This thread is kinda offending to me. I have been around boats my whole life and some of my best memories and best decisions in life evolved around boats. I cant stand the fact that 90% of people on the water and some people on this site just think that anyone with enough money to buy a boat is automatically a boater. THIS IS A JOKE! THIS SPORT IS NOT. We all want to have fun but I would feel a lot safer on the water without another Barney like this one riding on the river in ANY kind of fast boat. Especially in the Charleston area where I live now. Im sick of seeing the average punk on the water in any boat that can kill him self, the people with him, the people riding next to him, or even the kids close to shore swimming in the water. What is this site coming to? I really like the way we can all talk freely about our problems and experience's but I don't go around telling anyone to go out and buy a fast boat. The more I read this post all I kept saying is WTF!!!!! I just got done talking to a friend of mine about crap like this who has flipped 3 tunnel boats in 40 years or driving and walked away from them all. He kept telling me never do this... don't do that... watch out for this... and I don't know how im alive after that... I could have told him yea yea I know, but at least Im smart enough to just listen and think about it being me in his shoes. I don't know who this kid is but I hope I never see him on the water, even on his F#%king sea doo. This sport means a lot to me and the most it has taught me about life is RESPECT. I hope everybody doesn't think im being harsh or out of line but if you do I could care less. Im not here to teach everyone in the world how to drive a boat im only on here to learn what the best way is to not end up dead doing what I love... and find some parts... and get setup advice... and get to listen to the mistakes other have made... and share some moments with people that have the same passion as I have because boating is my life. Its my drug, and its what keeps me out of trouble (JAIL). It has been the best influence on my life for a reason. I think I got a little deep but I had a long day at work and the Johnnie Walker is doing some of the talking.I dont understand how you can say "what is this site comeing to?" Nobody on this thread thinks this guy should just go buy a race boat and go racing. Eveyone includeing myself has done nothing but try to make him realize its not that easy and to take baby steps. Your acting like we all are stupid and out of line to advise on a pleasure/speed boat first and to learn the ropes. I understand the rich kid/guy that buys a speed boat and endangers others with their ignorance however nobody on this thread is doing anything but trying to explain the seriousness of high perf boating and racing for that matter. You said you could care less if we think your harsh or out of line and I have a problem with that because we all share your thoughts and fears but make no mistake nobody here is trying to promote dangerous activity. Go back and read the thread again sober and hopefuly you will get the point most of us are trying make. I know what your point is and we all share the same feelings im sure:)

[MUDSHARK]

Rob your right brother. I did say some things that are out of line. And I probly shouldn't drink and post. I enjoy this site and I get a little emotional sometimes. I haven't been one the water all year, been trying to put a boat together and patiently waiting makes me a little short tempered sometimes. That's why I started the post with "correct me if I'm wrong". I knew someone would. But I'm glad I got to vent a little.

[Deznuts3570]

When new to this, the best thing you can do is use the search function!!!!!! You can answer alot of questions. If your serious about getting into this, the best thing you can do is UNDERSTAND if you make one bad judgement behind the wheel of some of these boats it will not be pretty. I started life here like you and while I don't log in alot, I do read alot. I've heard about some of the crashes and reading peoples posts on here about the things that happen. Its a GREAT sport!!! One of these boats in the hands of someone that's inexperienced is not something these guys take lightly. They want whats best for you and ultimately don't want to see anyone hurt! If you could ever get the time I strongly recommend you go see parker! He has a few videos and man he can run the hell outta a boat! watch these few videos http://youtu.be/nHSQj-F-fpw http://youtu.be/VsWXGpGiRRs http://youtu.be/C-nqqIcj51o. By all means these guys welcome people that want to get into these types of boats and continue to make this what it is. They have a ton of useful knowledge on here and there more than welcome to give advice. Hope you find what you need and take the time to learn it right!

[Hot Shot Merc]

Rob your right brother. I did say some things that are out of line. And I probly shouldn't drink and post. I enjoy this site and I get a little emotional sometimes. I haven't been one the water all year, been trying to put a boat together and patiently waiting makes me a little short tempered sometimes. That's why I started the post with "correct me if I'm wrong". I knew someone would. But I'm glad I got to vent a little.Hey man I can totaly relate to you brother. Ive been out of the water over 3 years and Im itching too. I get drunk and post stupid schit all the time so dont feel bad LOL!!! :thumbsup:

[MUDSHARK]

WATCH THIS TwoShoes, this wasnt even close to triplie digit speed but almost.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnJ28FGRQFs