So Roger and I ran Miss Diablo at Gravenhurst

[T2x]

Back to one of my favorite subjects.....Wings.

Roger Hinsdale and I are now co-owners of Miss Diablo and after a lot of sweat equity by Mr. Hinsdale ( glass work, rerigging, etc, etc) we took her up to Gravenhurst, ON, Canada for her latest debut. She is set up somewhat in the way Kitson raced her back in the day and all I can tell you is Ken is a superman in my book. Roger replaced the rideguide steering with hydraulic (currently suffering from an as yet undiagnosed stiffness) and the flap "stirrup" with a pedal, but otherwise the driving experience is much like original. There is no foam or upholstery in the driver's seat so one gets a true "seat of the pants" sensation. I took her out for the initial spin and was pleasantly surprised that the engines started right up and she took off with none of the fuss we had seen in past I-6/wing combo's at vintage events (Thanks again Roger...he also completely went through and refreshed the motors... at the same time removing all of the exterior powerhead cowls for a VERY unique look).

To the point....The Diablo is still a pretty fast old bird, turning lap times identical to or faster than 3 vintage 280 hydros on a very short course for a Switzer Wing. Turning is not a strong suit and we resorted to Kitsons "split throttle" approach which works to a point. She also had long course props and acceleration was compromised. There is a mid range transitional lope and the big pitch kept her in that speed range a bit long down the straights...( she only became somewhat airborn in the final 50-100 feet before the turn). One tachometer was working and there is no speedo....yet....but we have made a list of changes to adapt her to the Vintage "flyby" courses in the future. For the afternoon heats I pushed an eager Roger (feigning reluctance :) ) into the cockpit. He took to the complicated multi engine...flap equipped hull like a duck to water and I had a chance to watch her from the shore....and was not disappointed....I thought she looked terrific and put on a great show. Of course "showOFF" Watermark, my favorite Canadian National hero, was in the process of lapping everything else on the course (twice) in Roger's #754 OMC V6 Molinari which made the heat doubly enjoyable.

All in all the Diablo is back! We have some stack kits to mount on spare powerheads (stay tuned) and a bit of set up work to compensate for our advanced age and the novel thought of using the steering helm to control direction, etc...but this old girl is a gas. I can't wait to see her, Dust'n the Wind II (back from the dead) and Ted Boyd's wing all on the same course in the near future....now that will be a true "photo op".

T2x

[Instigator]

Very cool!
If you're lapping w/the 280's, you're haulin the coal!
Thanks for sharing.

[tux974]

Rich, great stuff!! Post up some more pics of it :thumbsup:

[allstock]

Loved it! The whole show was great!

[milkdud]

Very nice.

[RBT]

My favourite boat of the show, I was shocked at how well it turned.
Very very cool.

RT

[RogerH]

Rich, I can't wait to do this at Rideau Ferry again. Lets hope it runs as well and then we'll get cook'in on making some set-up changes. Rideau Ferry , Ontario is Aug 16-18. Hope to have the set-up changes done for the CRA's Fall Thunder at Tavares FL Nov. 8-10. Crap - can't attach a picture - will try in another post.

[milkdud]

Roger, Have you ever been to the switzer regatta in IL? I almost went this past weekend, but ran out of time.

Conrad

[T2x]

Roger, Have you ever been to the switzer regatta in IL? I almost went this past weekend, but ran out of time.

Conrad

I went two years ago with Dust'n the Wind II. Great get together......

[milkdud]

I went two years ago with Dust'n the Wind II. Great get together...... Very nice. I hope next year I can make it.
Conrad

[Powercat]

This boat is developing a whole 2nd chapter to it's history, fantastic to see it back !!

[shadowcat]

yah-yah- yah- it runs- whoppy do- LOL

[shadowcat]

all kidding aside- congratulations to Roger and Rich on getting the boat ready to even be there at gravenhurst and secondly for making the long haul there and back to attend - congratulations !

[jackie wilson]

Reading all that stuff has made me twitchy.
Rich and Roger, i promise you the three of us will haul arse together side by side, Just have to get the Cosworth up and running, i reckon i got the legs on the pair of you, once it's there. !!!!!

[RogerH]

Reading all that stuff has made me twitchy.
Rich and Roger, i promise you the three of us will haul arse together side by side, Just have to get the Cosworth up and running, i reckon i got the legs on the pair of you, once it's there. !!!!!
Looks like we'll also bring the #754 Molinari / CCC with Mark Rotharmel aboard. We want to see that expensive Cosworth run first! We won't mention how many times Mark lapped the 280 inboards in 5 laps at Gravenhurst.

[jackiewilson]

Looks like we'll also bring the #754 Molinari / CCC with Mark Rotharmel aboard. We want to see that expensive Cosworth run first! We won't mention how many times Mark lapped the 280 inboards in 5 laps at Gravenhurst.

Duckworths wife Jilly gave permission to open up Kieths old workshop and toy cupboard.
what was found was truly remarkable.
boxes of spare parts, props, gear cases, shafts,gear sets and a bunch of stuff I haven't unpacked yet.
Was hoping to find the original DFV motor, but that was long gone, @$100,000 a pop it would be.
Have also acquired the original working drawings from the Cosworth archives,thanks to Malcolm TYRRELL, one of the original team that put the boat together.
Lot of work gone into the rebuild project already,lot more to be done.
The original project was not expensive Roger, at that time a ready to roll DFV package was £25,000 compared to a Kieth Black motor @ £ 15,000 (race ready).
Difference was-----the Cossie would run 24 hrs nonstop @10,000rpm and still be good.
The boat could always run alongside the works stuff of both Mercury and OMC,, and there's nothing out there that I've seen would lap her, even today in a 100 lap race.
If i didn't think the old girl could win, I would not even wet her bum.

Price of a fresh built DFV today is around $100,000 and is as rare as rocking horse s--t.
price of an ILMOOR 10 isa hell of a lot less and tempting.

[T2x]

Duckworths wife Jilly gave permission to open up Kieths old workshop and toy cupboard.
what was found was truly remarkable.
boxes of spare parts, props, gear cases, shafts,gear sets and a bunch of stuff I haven't unpacked yet.
Was hoping to find the original DFV motor, but that was long gone, @$100,000 a pop it would be.
Have also acquired the original working drawings from the Cosworth archives,thanks to Malcolm TYRRELL, one of the original team that put the boat together.
Lot of work gone into the rebuild project already,lot more to be done.
The original project was not expensive Roger, at that time a ready to roll DFV package was £25,000 compared to a Kieth Black motor @ £ 15,000 (race ready).
Difference was-----the Cossie would run 24 hrs nonstop @10,000rpm and still be good.
The boat could always run alongside the works stuff of both Mercury and OMC,, and there's nothing out there that I've seen would lap her, even today in a 100 lap race.
If i didn't think the old girl could win, I would not even wet her bum.

Price of a fresh built DFV today is around $100,000 and is as rare as rocking horse s--t.
price of an ILMOOR 10 isa hell of a lot less and tempting.

Jackie: What about one of those "tuned" Japanese V6's? The HP numbers and RPM's I hear claimed from them are staggering and they are quite light and, most importantly, durable.

Or you could always put a Mazda Rotary in there.... :D

[T2x]

Rich, great stuff!! Post up some more pics of it :thumbsup:

Then and now.............


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[lilabner]

All Jackie needs to do is put Brett May in there..

[lilabner]

Jackie...... aren't there a few Vega's at the scrap yard you could use although a Gremlin might do!

Go easy now, Vega also had a Cosworth engine..Lyn St James drove one.

[jackie wilson]

All Jackie needs to do is put Brett May in there..

Brett could do it damn near as well as i could.

[jackie wilson]

Jackie: What about one of those "tuned" Japanese V6's? The HP numbers and RPM's I hear claimed from them are staggering and they are quite light and, most importantly, durable.

Or you could always put a Mazda Rotary in there.... :D

Rich, could you ever see me putting a Jap engine in the Cosworth? Would be like selling one of my grandkids souls for a plate of rice and chips (french Fries).
History shows us there are different motors for different times (Strokes for Folks kinda thing) All of them had their day.
Duesenberg, Allison, Rolls Merlin and Griffon , Mercury and even OMC, Ford--Cosworth--Renault and Mercedes.
Would be wrong of me to contemplate putting peanut butter on the toast instead of caviar and as for sticking a "Wanketory" anywhere near the project puts 10 years on me just hearing from the chamelian who suggested it.!!!!!!
If your messing with history then it has to be authentic, "BASTARDIZATION" DOES NOT ENTER INTO IT.

[pointer]

Then and now.............


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Simply awesome, thanks for sharing! Any videos of her running?

pointer

[T2x]

Simply awesome, thanks for sharing! Any videos of her running?

pointer

There must be some...but haven't seen any....yet.

[T2x]

Rich, could you ever see me putting a Jap engine in the Cosworth? Would be like selling one of my grandkids souls for a plate of rice and chips (french Fries).
History shows us there are different motors for different times (Strokes for Folks kinda thing) All of them had their day.
Duesenberg, Allison, Rolls Merlin and Griffon , Mercury and even OMC, Ford--Cosworth--Renault and Mercedes.
Would be wrong of me to contemplate putting peanut butter on the toast instead of caviar and as for sticking a "Wanketory" anywhere near the project puts 10 years on me just hearing from the chamelian who suggested it.!!!!!!
If your messing with history then it has to be authentic, "BASTARDIZATION" DOES NOT ENTER INTO IT.

Well the Wankel is period correct........ and History is great...as long as you can get the historical piece to actually run.... :p

[Powercat]

There must be some...but haven't seen any....yet.

There are about a dozen posted to YouTube.... but so far all I have seen are the
inboards, and that "weenie roaster" turbine rig.. I will view more of them tonight.
Danny

[seeroy]

This is wonderful news. Can't wait to see it and you at Tavares in November - Steve

[Powercat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPJKCeE4iDQ
Here is Miss Diablo and the Molinari in video


There are about a dozen posted to YouTube.... but so far all I have seen are the
inboards, and that "weenie roaster" turbine rig.. I will view more of them tonight.
Danny

[jackiewilson]

Well the Wankel is period correct........ and History is great...as long as you can get the historical piece to actually run.... :p

Rich, the wankel has been a period piece for well over a hundred years and left a trail of broken hearts, the Cosworth brought joy and satisfaction.!!!!!

Now we have the original working drawings, that is every single piece of kit from motor to prop and all points in between including electrics and the transmission, the main problem will be the funding of the project and the time my son can spend on the project.
We have the knowledge, and the ambition, the personnel with the ability, just need to stitch it all together SOMEHOW.
Seems like only yesterday we got it up and running in the first place.

[T2x]

Rich, the wankel has been a period piece for well over a hundred years and left a trail of broken hearts, the Cosworth brought joy and satisfaction.!!!!!

Now we have the original working drawings, that is every single piece of kit from motor to prop and all points in between including electrics and the transmission, the main problem will be the funding of the project and the time my son can spend on the project.
We have the knowledge, and the ambition, the personnel with the ability, just need to stitch it all together SOMEHOW.
Seems like only yesterday we got it up and running in the first place.

Just teasing you Jackie....Hope you get the project done....In the meantime maybe we can get you into one of the other hulls...? Or you can ride with Ted Boyd and run complete heats while sitting on the trailer with the motors making roostertails in the ramp.... :p :)

[acceleracion]

I love AN fittings and seeing them on the supply side of the fuel pumps looks awesome. I6 motors are awesome. any pics of this Cossworth motor that is being mentioned? i cant find it. only that it was a 4 valve 90* f1 engine is it the same one but on a boat setup inboard?

Eddie

[shadowcat]

Just teasing you Jackie....Hope you get the project done....In the meantime maybe we can get you into one of the other hulls...? Or you can ride with Ted Boyd and run complete heats while sitting on the trailer with the motors making roostertails in the ramp.... :p :)........actually...... it was on the ramp..:cheers:

[T2x]

I love AN fittings and seeing them on the supply side of the fuel pumps looks awesome.

Eddie

Those aren't fuel pumps anymore...we use electric pumps mounted in the boat... Roger made up some neat manifolds for the fuel to flow through.

[acceleracion]

Those aren't fuel pumps anymore...we use electric pumps mounted in the boat... Roger made up some neat manifolds for the fuel to flow through.
that makes it that much more ridiculously cooler now lol. it it still 3 carbs? does anyone make an efi conversion kit for these motors?


Eddie

[T2x]

that makes it that much more ridiculously cooler now lol. it it still 3 carbs? does anyone make an efi conversion kit for these motors?


Eddie

yes ..still 3 carbs and...no... not to my knowledge on the EFI.....but it is an interesting thought.

[T2x]

any pics of this Cossworth motor that is being mentioned? i cant find it. only that it was a 4 valve 90* f1 engine is it the same one but on a boat setup inboard?

Eddie

Here ya go... Jackie's boat....

[acceleracion]

Here ya go... Jackie's boat....
wow thats pretty cool.

[mach1magnum]

awesome boat congrats

[Mark75H]

that makes it that much more ridiculously cooler now lol. it it still 3 carbs? does anyone make an efi conversion kit for these motors? Eddie

Several people have tried, but none successful that I know of ... carburation is not the limit on these motors, so its generally without point or ends

[RogerH]

Will try to add some pictures of Jackie's ET22 that I took at OFF 2011. Will try with FireFox this time and see if it works.
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[lilabner]

Sir Jackie..I remember "Mr. Rickey" DeMontrond ran a wing on his GN boat. You didn't lift his did you?

[acceleracion]

Several people have tried, but none successful that I know of ... carburation is not the limit on these motors, so its generally without point or ends

ah i see.


that cossworth boat looks gorgeous.

[RogerH]

Here's two pics of the motors on Miss Diablo III 1969 1250 Super BP's

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[Powercat]

Roger:
Those are SSM units and not BP shifters correct ?
Really nice looking hardware...


Here's two pics of the motors on Miss Diablo III 1969 1250 Super BP's

[T2x]

Roger:
Those are SSM units and not BP shifters correct ?
Really nice looking hardware...

Correct......

[jackie wilson]

Will try to add some pictures of Jackie's ET22 that I took at OFF 2011. Will try with FireFox this time and see if it works.
279650279651279652279653

Went to the Festival Of Speed at Goodwood last week------they had the latest land speed record boat there "BLOODHOUND".
Stats are awesome 1,000 MPH plus
Ridiculous power,
Richard Noble finding the funds
Andy Green is the jockey. I got quite excited ------
Then they pissed all over me from a dizzy height when they said the fuel pump for the project was -----A DFV V8 COSWORTH.

[T2x]

They had the latest land speed record boat .

Say what? Does it float on land?

[jackiewilson]

Say what? Does it float on land?

Sorry Rich, put it down to a senior moment-------or a stupid remark.
Bloodhound is a LAND SPEED RECORD C A R.
look it up on the dot, dot, as my sister calls it.

[jackiewilson]

You notice they put me back to being A MEMBER!!!!!!!!!!
Beware, it don't take much, just a slip, and some bugger pounces, but I've been slipping a lot lately.

[Watermark]

279765

[Speedfab]

that makes it that much more ridiculously cooler now lol. it it still 3 carbs? does anyone make an efi conversion kit for these motors?


Eddie

I have done EFI on a number of small 2 strokes. A Merc inline 6 would be a fairly simple proposition, but there is just no reason to do so. Carbs are far simpler, and there is no power advantage... In fact, as long as the venturi isn't a restriction, a carburetor will nearly always make marginally more power than EFI in a normally aspirated application - largely because of how and where fuel is atomized into the airflow and the effect of the consequential evaporative cooling on air density.

Rich and Roger - this is simply awesome. I am so glad this boat ended up not only in good hands, but with people who are actually taking it out and running it for all to see. I was lucky enough to see a wing run as a child. Thanks to guys like you there's a very real chance that I'll be able to do so again, 40 some years later. Thank you.

[T2x]

279765

Are you coming to Tavares in November....... or do I have to drag you down there?

[RogerH]

I have done EFI on a number of small 2 strokes. A Merc inline 6 would be a fairly simple proposition, but there is just no reason to do so. Carbs are far simpler, and there is no power advantage... In fact, as long as the venturi isn't a restriction, a carburetor will nearly always make marginally more power than EFI in a normally aspirated application - largely because of how and where fuel is atomized into the airflow and the effect of the consequential evaporative cooling on air density.

Rich and Roger - this is simply awesome. I am so glad this boat ended up not only in good hands, but with people who are actually taking it out and running it for all to see. I was lucky enough to see a wing run as a child. Thanks to guys like you there's a very real chance that I'll be able to do so again, 40 some years later. Thank you.

Thanks for the comments! We really have been trying to get more vintage boat owners to dust them off and get them wet!

[Watermark]

Are you coming to Tavares in November....... or do I have to drag you down there?

I'll be there with bells on.... or perhaps better put in outboard terms, "with cowbells on!"

By the way, here is another shot of Oley's Twistercraft .. don't you wish you had it now??

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[T2x]

I'll be there with bells on.... or perhaps better put in outboard terms, "with cowbells on!"

By the way, here is another shot of Oley's Twistercraft .. don't you wish you had it now??

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I didn't want it then......but there are a bunch of Molinari's....not to mention your Seebold in the background that i would love to drive again.

[ChinewalkerII]

Roger - do you realize you gots your motors backwards? Red goes on the port side, green/blue on the starboard. ;)
- Scott

[RogerH]

Roger - do you realize you gots your motors backwards? Red goes on the port side, green/blue on the starboard. ;)
- Scott
Scott, We tried them reversed like you suggested and they would only turn to the right :icon_bs:. Lots of people have suggested Red and Green but I counter with the patriotic colors (white for the lettering). Right now, I'm just glad they run well. Hope you and the family are doing well - missed you this year. Take care.

[bernie]

Somewhere there is a short list of people who have actually driven a wing - I never officially raced mine, but I did run it with Boots Spellman in the Spellman/Merton wing and Fred Hug driving a stacker on his Invader tunnel during an exhibition run at a stock outboard marathon in Fond du Lac around 1971. My almost blowover that day cooled my need for speed for quite a while -