Props

[2us70]

I have noticed that the subject of propellers does not come up much in this forum. In my case it is due to my almost complete ignorance on the subject. I only managed to improve the performance of one propeller and that was by the purely mechanical operation of adding an exhaust tube. When we were all still racing the subject of props was always under discussion. What ever happened to all those props? Also which ones were your best?

[velox]

Back in the early to mid 60's racing OPC in Florida there was only one place we went to for Mercury props.That was to Oliver Land's Prop shop. Oliver also raced a 13 Ft Raveau in class D. He left Miami and went to Columbus Ga, where he worked part time on props and for the Army. He rebuilt a tank engine and took a rag to wipe some oil. The rag got sucked into the engine along with the index finger on his left hand. That made it really hard for him to continue.

[outasite]

I have noticed that the subject of propellers does not come up much in this forum. In my case it is due to my almost complete ignorance on the subject. I only managed to improve the performance of one propeller and that was by the purely mechanical operation of adding an exhaust tube. When we were all still racing the subject of props was always under discussion. What ever happened to all those props? Also which ones were your best?For me,it was the two blade michigan wheel elephant ear,14/26 worked by Harold Noss-- On a spanking new 150XS at the time it was killer!!

[2us70]

I started racing in E class with 2 of Oliver's props and one of them served as my backup prop on my McCall until they changed the lower units on the 50s. The other one was my primary on my marathon boat.
Back in the early to mid 60's racing OPC in Florida there was only one place we went to for Mercury props.That was to Oliver Land's Prop shop. Oliver also raced a 13 Ft Raveau in class D. He left Miami and went to Columbus Ga, where he worked part time on props and for the Army. He rebuilt a tank engine and took a rag to wipe some oil. The rag got sucked into the engine along with the index finger on his left hand. That made it really hard for him to continue.

[CALVIN]

Dave Dewald bends a mean wheel worked miracles on my b wheel

[T2x]

Back in the 60's we originally used 2 blade through hub and hubless Michigans and tried Merc bronze wheels worked by John Culver "Culver wheels" which would not plane most boats. Then in 66 Linder started a relationship with Cary props and also bought a couple of Records from Italy. These Speedmaster wheels were way ahead of Mercury's offerings and one set of through hubs looked like they came from the future... in '68 The Old man "borrowed" a set from George and Merc's "new line" of SSM wheels came out months later... :).. I also remember Dick Schneider giving me a set of the original "Elephant Ears" for my JJ 16' Glastron...but, like the Culvers, I had a big problem planing with them

[jackie wilson]

Had a 50 Merc (E CLASS) and spent all my money sending off to the USA for props, CARY, MICHIGAN, etc, Then tried Record and Radice from Italy.
There was nothing to choose between them, there was never an exact science or set of rules regarding props, take your pick and then a hammer and an anvil and bash to your hearts content-----but NEVER your best one, until you lucked out and hit on one that ran better.
Wasn't 'till i met Phil Rolla that i realized not many people knew ANYTHING about props, except they fitted on the end of a shaft------worked quite well in a forward motion but did not like reversing !!!!!!!
The solution for most drivers was to belt the bollocks of it until it sang a little sweeter.
If one had gone over the top so to speak, then the said prop would be binned until a later date , when the current favourite had gotten damaged or bent and needed a trip to the weld shop.
Come to think of it 'WHAT'S CHANGED' ???????
Schneider was in charge of props at Mercury, Hetz was still a youth with ambition and the guy who knew more than most in the world of props was employed by OMC.

[T2x]

and the guy who knew more than most in the world of props was employed by OMC.

Heinrich.....

[JWTjr.]

I started racing some time later (late 1970s) when surfacing racing propellers for outboards were quite common, and aftermarket shops that modified them were also numerous. When I was racing I used primarily Henrich (DAH), Mazco, Hoss and a few others. In my opinion, not much has changed since those days. True, there are improvements in overall performance as compared to the "old days" when choices were not that varied--you used a hi-rake prop (Chopper, SRX, etc.) for loaded/heavy hulls and a low-rake prop (cleaver, low-rake round ear, etc.) for hulls that didn't need a lot of lift help from the prop and/or gearcase. Today you have props that are designed to fully surface but also are a good compromise between hi and lo rake (i.e. Lightning ET). Where the changes are really apparent and dramatic are in the (what I call) "bass boat wheels", those primarily built for semi-surfacing or surfacing on a performance hull powered by a larger engine with a large diameter gearcase housing. The performance of these types of props (which go by various trade/marketing names such as Bravo, Trophy, Pro Max, and a slew of others) is quite impressive when installed on the right hull/engine combination. Of course, the sheer displacement, low end and midrange torque and power of the newer outboards certainly plays a large part in allowing the propeller engineers a lot of design leeway. Older engines (even from the 1990s and certainly the 1980s) would not be able to plane let alone perform well with many of these new props, in the higher pitch sizes anyway.

[2us70]

What kind of speed did you European E Class guys get out of a 50 back then? We were running mid to high 50s using modified Merc propellers.
Had a 50 Merc (E CLASS) and spent all my money sending off to the USA for props, CARY, MICHIGAN, etc, Then tried Record and Radice from Italy.
There was nothing to choose between them, there was never an exact science or set of rules regarding props, take your pick and then a hammer and an anvil and bash to your hearts content-----but NEVER your best one, until you lucked out and hit on one that ran better.
Wasn't 'till i met Phil Rolla that i realized not many people knew ANYTHING about props, except they fitted on the end of a shaft------worked quite well in a forward motion but did not like reversing !!!!!!!
The solution for most drivers was to belt the bollocks of it until it sang a little sweeter.
If one had gone over the top so to speak, then the said prop would be binned until a later date , when the current favourite had gotten damaged or bent and needed a trip to the weld shop.
Come to think of it 'WHAT'S CHANGED' ???????
Schneider was in charge of props at Mercury, Hetz was still a youth with ambition and the guy who knew more than most in the world of props was employed by OMC.

[jackiewilson]

What kind of speed did you European E Class guys get out of a 50 back then? We were running mid to high 50s using modified Merc propellers.

Do you want the race version, or the honest answer?

Never once saw 50mph, that was the aim of all e class racers------good norm was 45/6, but once I got the Rolla dialled in------downhill-----with a tailwind, a good clean 48.

This was the early 60's

Race version, honest to murgatroyd was mid to high 50/s

[jackiewilson]

Heinrich.....

That was the man, Rolla told me he was the best in the business,met him just once when he and Sirois were at Rolla's.

[T2x]

That was the man, Rolla told me he was the best in the business,met him just once when he and Sirois were at Rolla's.

He was the guy who designed the first OMC race props for the X and GT 115's. That profile marked a significant change in prop design and rake, which can still be seen in today's blades

[MN4V]

I've seen some good work come out of Grandpa Seebolds shop. He made us some really good FJ and SJ props. The through hub SJ Merc props he modified had the hubs shortened and the
the inside diameter cut to make the hub thinner.
Mark N

[2us70]

I had 2 real good ones. One bronze done by Olegator and one stainless from Bobby Soles. Both were Merc props. Jackie, by the mid 70s the 50s were reclassified into D class. There were several boats that were running an honest "Keller" measured 62mph.

[jackiewilson]

I had 2 real good ones. One bronze done by Olegator and one stainless from Bobby Soles. Both were Merc props. Jackie, by the mid 70s the 50s were reclassified into D class. There were several boats that were running an honest "Keller" measured 62mph.

By the 70's, hull design had changed dramatically from flatties and vees to tunnels and pointers, and people like Dieter Schultze and Keonig and Lassie Strom were running pretty close to 70.
Drove across the USA with Jim Hunt and we put the world to rights on the journey, never realised he was into props, even though PRUETT told me he was one of the words best powerboat racers.

[2us70]

In 1970 I had my McCall SE boat running pretty good. I was using a prop that John McCall got Jim to do for me. Several weeks before Nationals we ran a race in St. Petersburg FL. I hit a broken off course marker and tore up one blade pretty badly. Jim took the prop home with him and returned to me at the next race,which was the last before Nationals. I put it on the motor for prerace warm-up and found that not only was it repaired it was 3/4 MPH faster than before. A few weeks later I won my only National Championship. I have to credit damaging that prop and Jim's repair and improvement with helping make that happen
By the 70's, hull design had changed dramatically from flatties and vees to tunnels and pointers, and people like Dieter Schultze and Keonig and Lassie Strom were running pretty close to 70.
Drove across the USA with Jim Hunt and we put the world to rights on the journey, never realised he was into props, even though PRUETT told me he was one of the words best powerboat racers.

[jackie wilson]

I've seen some good work come out of Grandpa Seebolds shop. He made us some really good FJ and SJ props. The through hub SJ Merc props he modified had the hubs shortened and the
the inside diameter cut to make the hub thinner.
Mark N

Used to have breakfast with grandpa Seebold at the greasy spoon in Fenton when we visited Bill.
He was always telling me to buy Walmart shares------that was over 25 years ago-----why do i never listen !!!!!!!
Interesting though that Billy, Mike and Tim all used Rolla props at one time or another.
Rolla always said he learned something new about props every day, and no one could ever know everything.
Son Mark worked with Rolla for 10 years in Switzerland, moved to Florida 14 years ago and still beats the crap out of props most days of the week.
Grandson Craig is assimilating a little knowledge of the science of props (if there is such a thing)

[Dave S]

I like radcid.....Forged steel....

[T2x]

I like radcid.....Forged steel....

Do you mean Radice?

[lilabner]

Back in the last century when I was a Raveau driver, the Mercury speedmaster props didn't hold the nose up too well. I got a Michigan elephant ear, like an OJ prop, and used it forever. I used it on the 700 and 800. My prop man was Marcel Raveau, who could beat a couple mph's into any prop with a CNC ball peen and a trailer ball. Then when we got back to the shop, I would smooth out the dimples with a special CNC sander. Very high tech stuff. Seldom got beat..:D

[Dave S]

Spell check.......not.....sorry.

[jackie wilson]

I like radcid.....Forged steel....

Forged steel is a tad more expensive than anything else (except pure gold of course)

[T2x]

Forged steel is a tad more expensive than anything else (except pure gold of course)


Unless you pay for it with forged checks..in which case it's quite cheap actually.

[jackie wilson]

Unless you pay for it with forged checks..in which case it's quite cheap actually.

I sed "Funny Money" and they came out about the same as forged cheques. Touche as the frogs say.

[RogerH]

Heinrich.....
I have two DAH (Danaky & Henrich) props for the Molinari. One of them was on Jim's #754 Molinari at Gravenhurst.

[turnerlittle]

279843279844 Don't know if this is what you are talking of but it's a 22 pitch solid brass

[Mark75H]

I have two DAH (Danaky & Henrich) props for the Molinari. One of them was on Jim's #754 Molinari at Gravenhurst.


Don A. Henrich

[T2x]

I have two DAH (Danaky & Henrich) props for the Molinari. One of them was on Jim's #754 Molinari at Gravenhurst.

Always thought DAH meant Don A. Heinrich

[RogerH]

Always thought DAH meant Don A. Heinrich
I was just stating that DAH was originally John Danaky and Don Henrich. (per their current website) Makes sense that DAH stands for Don A. Henrich ..................or could it be Danaky and Henrich ????? Probably doesn't matter.....:confused:

[milkdud]

The DAH name started in 1958. Janaky did not come on until the 70's it looks. J :rolleyes:
Per DAH website:
<tbody>
Some History about DAH propellers


</tbody>

<tbody>
ESTABLISHED 1958

Don Henrich started D.A.H. Pro-Pellers in 1958. At that time Don was the head propeller designer
for Kiekhaefer Mercury. After a few years he jumped ship and joined O.M.C. as their prop
designer until retiring in 1989. D.A.H. was a sideline for Don working nights and weekends. I
joined Don in the 70's and trained under the master. I have owned my fair share of 100 mph
boats starting in 1976 with Kilo runs of 105.55 mph and then advanced to O.P.C. Modified
Unlimited Racing and then got older and wiser. I got out while I was still alive. D.A.H. has grown
in leaps and bounds into a truly national and international propeller facility shipping props all
over the U.S.A., Orient, Europe and Australia. Our reputation is to stay on top of all of the newest
propeller designs, and use our experience and technology to bring you the best in high
performance custom propellers.


John Janaky
D.A.H. Custom Pro-Pellers

</tbody>

[T2x]

I was just stating that DAH was originally John Danaky and Don Henrich. (per their current website) Makes sense that DAH stands for Don A. Henrich ..................or could it be Danaky and Henrich ????? Probably doesn't matter.....:confused:

except Danaky...is actually Janaky..... :p

[Michael J Giesler]

John from Dah still has the fastest switzer shooting star record at 105mph i think i my dad saw this and is going to dig in the loft in our garage so i can post some pics of some old nice props

[milkdud]

105. what motor was on it V6?

[Michael J Giesler]

omc v-6 i think it was a crossflow to

[RogerH]

except Danaky...is actually Janaky..... :p

My Bad - had it written down with a D vs J. (no spell check :p)