FrankenSTV is on the table

[thunter764]

Just in case you guys were wondering on interested in seeing this I thought I would post up some progress...if for nothing else to motivate me to keep going while doing this on vacation!

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg591/thunter764/2002%20Triad%20STV%20Mod%20VP/bth_20130626_124155_zps1d55895f.jpgMy son...the assistant in the madness
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg591/thunter764/2002%20Triad%20STV%20Mod%20VP/bth_20130626_124238_zps9e8ab21e.jpgProbably thinking...isn't this stuff done in the winter when you cant boat??
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg591/thunter764/2002%20Triad%20STV%20Mod%20VP/bth_20130626_124219_zps0ce0cf94.jpgSteering ready...sorting thru all the wiring and adapting merc to omc including shift and throttle cable...spun the engine over with the key! Just for motivation :D

[RussF]

Wait.......looks like your son doing all the WORK and your doing the HEAVY LOOKIN ON taken the pics................:eek:

[Hot Shot Merc]

Im not familiar with this project. Can you tell me a little about what that motor is pictured? Looks like a beast for sure. Thanks

[Forkin' Crazy]

:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Don't forget to remove that Mercury sticker! ;)

[Instigator]

Somewhere Raceman just ran in front of a speeding bus :p

Looks good Tim. Glad to see you decided to keep it and work through it.
I figure it'll take you a couple wks to get the fuel map right.

Or give the programmer to Daniel (the Mad Scientist) and go get a sandwich. Should be done when you return ;)

I'm excited for you guys. That boat should be down right evil w/that motor dialed :reddevil:

BTW, check my thread about MiamiDave on the tech page. He's building a similar motor for an identical boat.
About the time you thought you were safe having the fastest JohnRude around......

For reference: 7700 x 1.62 x 32" x 10% = 129.6 :cool:

[thunter764]

Russ that is about right...hey I am on vacation and that is why I had kids anyway..to do the heavy lifting..I am the thinker..lol

Rob the engine is one that Gary built using a wayne taylor mid and mad efi, sportmaster lower. If you do a search on frankenrude there is lots to read.

Forkin there are mercury parts still in use:D I will just add an Evinrude sticker.

LOL Gary but I think you may have "instigated" a fight...

Yea Daniel has been my motivator AND the one crawling under the dash! I hope to have everything finished tomorrow if the weather will just co-operate..it has rained EVERY DAY I have had time to work on it. I may have to call you when it is time to run. Not sure if my adapter for omc to merc is wired correct but was encouraged it turned over with the key.

I will check out miami Dave to see what he is up to. Crazy there will be two huh?

Yea if my Secret Weapon I used on my Allisons works on the STV it should go pretty good, but may need more pitch.

[Corona Mike]

Well This Should Be A "Good Compairasion" A "Stock" 96' Drag Merc. Verses A ??? OMC...Now The Poor Little Merc..,142 C/I:eek::D:D Ran...What Raceman, A Lazy Speed Of 13???MPH;);):D Lets See What The Jon-Ruddy Can Do...I'm Sure It's About "Stock":rolleyes::icon_bs: Also...Gary, I Wouldn't "Pick On Norris" If It Were Me...That Boat Ran FAST Before Fast Was Cool....Just Sayin....:eek::eek::D:D

[PARKER RABE]

half fast was driving it

[Instigator]

Nothing against Norris, and I know how fast the boat went Mike. Was only responding to some smart ass comments I've seen lately, from Norris about me and my motor being on this boat. (and not sure why??)
And what Parker said ;)
I don't care how fast the boat goes but it should run good if Tim has the patience/time to get it there. The idea that a hard core, died in the wool Merc guy bought that motor still boggles my mind and I'd like to see it run good for him.
I think he deserves that.

Tim, try this.

8500 X 28" X 10% = 125.2

[Raceman]

Somewhere Raceman just ran in front of a speeding bus :p



Actually it's worse than that............. laying on a railroad tressle over the water with concrete blocks strapped to both ankles, hand grenades in both hands with the pins pulled, cyanide pills in both cheeks and hoping for a quick train.

Gary, you know I always diss on those OMC's whenever there's a good opportunity;) and Tim has too much Merc history to stay on the wrong path. I'm bettin' he'll come around and put something black back on it. If not I may just have to go and bring it back here. HalfFast always said the boat woulda' probably run 140 that day without the surge (dead batteries wouldn't even engage the starter bendix to get it back on the trailer) but I wouldn't ever let him run it again. Back then it was a big number that a lot of people didn't believe and it was big enough to scare me into thinkin' I didn't want to be the one to call his wife.

I'd really like to have it back some day with maybe a 260 on a champ mid. I was always comfortable in it at about 120 or a little more, but never had it in me to run it any faster.

[RNM018]

How fast has anyone been on the top end now , with these modern OMC/BRP motors on the STV River Rocket ?
I know Dave Bucsh puts up big 1/4 mile numbers . But who's held one on the froor with a big prop , and a tall gear ?
Just currious , as I sold my River Rocket to a BRP guy , and haven't heard any numbers yet .
Maybe it's not as easy , as some seem to think it is !

Rich Martin 018

[baja200merk]

Mike- dont forget HF ran it with a speedy :thumbsup:

Norris- dead batteries? That wont happen its a fish motor 40 amp charging system :thumbsup:

Rich- Dont worry about your rocket, its in good hands :D. Have you not seen Monty's stv/etec videos? :confused:

Tim and Daniel- She's Looking good, should be fun! Get the motor tuned and use the sporty to beat the drag/speedy record :D

Here is some big gear, big block, big prop motivation :eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shD4tQaB654&list=FLj8xnC5f46FKmnZv00nZ5MA&index=1

[Raceman]

Mike- dont forget HF ran it with a speedy :thumbsup:

Norris- dead batteries? That wont happen its a fish motor 40 amp charging system :thumbsup:



Yep, it had a IV Speedmaster on it. I always ran SSM's on all my stuff, dating back to the 15 & 16' Ally's in the 70's, even the one with inline 1500. It amused me that lotsa people said the SSM's wouldn't work on STV and Mirage type boats, but we just laughed at 'em, since I had put one of my old MC1 SSM's on my partners Hydrostream HST and then his Mirage Jag that I later ended up with. Michael Dixon called HalfFast after we posted the number and that's when he went to one, and Hogan did it too. I don't think anybody else had been foolin' with em unless that guy with the first design F1 V8 on the Mirage had already run one.

I never did understand the batteries thing. It cranked the boat fine when it went in off the trailer and it had 2 full sized batteries right behind the driver. It had a fair amp draw with all the electronics, trim pump and dual fuel pumps, but they shouldn't have gone south like they did. The boat ran a lot longer on the Extreme Machines photo shoot at Tobosofkee without issues. Chris said it was surging really hard on top and he wanted to put another battery in and go again.

[baja200merk]

I'm glad someone tried the speedy. You know how it goes, if you do the same chit everyone else does you will only go as fast as them. I cant understand how someone would think it wouldnt work I always thought they were worth big mph. BTW its good to see you back on here :cheers:

[props4u2]

Looking good Tim!!!!!! Boy has Daniel grown up!!

[RNM018]

Mike- dont forget HF ran it with a speedy :thumbsup:

Norris- dead batteries? That wont happen its a fish motor 40 amp charging system :thumbsup:

Rich- Dont worry about your rocket, its in good hands :D. Have you not seen Monty's stv/etec videos? :confused:

Tim and Daniel- She's Looking good, should be fun! Get the motor tuned and use the sporty to beat the drag/speedy record :D

Here is some big gear, big block, big prop motivation :eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shD4tQaB654&list=FLj8xnC5f46FKmnZv00nZ5MA&index=1

Ya Kevin , I've seen that . But the speedo was reading most of the time , and I can't read what it was , when it was .
Do you know if that's a 120 or a 140 mph speedo ?
I'm sure it had more in it also , but still doesn't tell me how fast anyones going , with these motors .
I know they have the potentel , if someone really wants to push it !


Rich Martin 018

[baja200merk]

Ya Kevin , I've seen that . But the speedo was reading most of the time , and I can't read what it was , when it was .
I'm sure it had more in it also , but still doesn't tell me how fast anyones going , with these motors .
I know they have the potentel , if someone really wants to push it !


Rich Martin 018

Click quality, change it to 1080p, then make it full screen and put your readers on :p (sorry bud couldnt help it :D).

From a 40 roll looks like it took less than 25 seconds to swing to 120 (1.62+34). Dont forget that it IS NOT a one off high strung, race fuel, MOTEC drag motor. It is a warmed up lake/fish motor built to ride, it has factory evinrude injection AND ignition :thumbsup:

[Matts94z28]

subscribed.

[Instigator]

I'm sure it had more in it also , but still doesn't tell me how fast anyones going , with these motors .
I know they have the potentel , if someone really wants to push it !
Rich Martin 018

Great question Rich.

History kinda shows that the OMC guys have never really gone after the big end #'s. Then or now.

From memory:

Rrevinrude went over in his OMC powered HST copy at one teen and had been into the 120's w/more left as I recall. I always thought he was really one of the only ones in my time that got serious about it w/an OMC. 3.0 looper w/Mad EFi and a Sporty. May have still been carbs then??
And that was 10 yrs ago.

MiamiDave was into the one teens w/his carb'd 3.0 looper powered Pro Comp before a sudden stop in the Keys side lined him. Until todays project. (he likes to go fast too so we shall see)

I had my eye on it w/the motor Tim has when it was on my River Rocket but I ran out of motivation before doing anything.

Jimmy Carter went 141 on radar in the '80's w/his evil, carb'd F-1 V-8 powered STV. Oh yeah, "SPRINT BOTTOM"! If nothing else, Jimmy deserves the award for the biggest balls award. He told me many scary stories of that boat.
When he wasn't trying to sell it to me ; )

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/DSCF0017.jpg (http://s290.photobucket.com/user/Instigatorspixs/media/DSCF0017.jpg.html)

I forgot Tims old boat ran a Speedmaster when half fast drove it.

Who's the fastest on a Sporty?? Isn't it between Keys dave and Dennis Vitola ?? Both into the 130's??

[Instigator]

*EDIT*
I think Gordon went 119/120 w/his E-Tec @ the 150 shoot out before blowing off a water line.

[mach351]

Dave has been 138 with a sporty

[FAST RALLY SPORT]

Dave has been 138 with a sporty
Not with no OMC, young man this is a OMC thread.

[Instigator]

Not with no OMC, young man this is a OMC thread.
My fault Bobby. I meant that question to include all.

[baja200merk]

On a short pass Gordon went 125 with the old lady in the back in the ditch at RR and didnt go through 4 powerheads :eek: :D

[dagodiver]

On a short pass Gordon went 125 with the old lady in the back in the ditch at RR and didnt go through 4 powerheads :eek: :D

thanks now I have to clean my screen.!:cool:

Dago.

[mach351]

Not with no OMC, young man this is a OMC thread.
Lmao - it seems that's all they are nowadays

[mach351]

On a short pass Gordon went 125 with the old lady in the back in the ditch at RR and didnt go through 4 powerheads :eek: :D
I KNOW you're not starting a top end battle with the Nuts Kevin....I just know you're not....:rolleyes:

[baja200merk]

I KNOW you're not starting a top end battle with the Nuts Kevin....I just know you're not....:rolleyes:

The question was how fast has a rude/sporty go. I think Ray has been over 122.

If he walks by a boat it goes faster. I dont know how he leaves it on the wood that long :eek: he's like the Chuck norris of topend :D

[Instigator]

I think Dave Bush told me he was seeing 130ish through the lights in Pro Gas but had no interest in staying there.

Tim, sorry about your thread Dude. Welcome to owning an OMC. You cannot mention OMC and Merc in the same thread w/o starting a war ;)

[boston]

This looks like a cool project, something different, I am in Sanford, NC, let me know when you are getting close to running it, would like to watch.
Do you go to Jordan or Harris Lake? (Also have some props you may want to try)

Dennis

[jphii]

This looks like a cool project, something different, I am in Sanford, NC, let me know when you are getting close to running it, would like to watch.
Do you go to Jordan or Harris Lake? (Also have some props you may want to try)

Dennis

I'd be up for that too. I've got a killer 34 that should make it fly. Dennis, put the back seat in....

[Instigator]

This looks like a cool project, something different, I am in Sanford, NC, let me know when you are getting close to running it, would like to watch.
Do you go to Jordan or Harris Lake? (Also have some props you may want to try)

Dennis
Way cool.
One of the best of the best and no prejudicial/judgmental BS.

You my friend, are a class act.

Thanks for stepping to the plate Dennis and miss seeing you around.

[action17]

Way cool.
One of the best of the best and no prejudicial/judgmental BS.

You my friend, are a class act.

Thanks for stepping to the plate Dennis and miss seeing you around.

agreed!!!!

[RNM018]

Way cool.
One of the best of the best and no prejudicial/judgmental BS.

You my friend, are a class act.

Thanks for stepping to the plate Dennis and miss seeing you around.

I'm Sure That Prejudicial / Judgemental , wasn't being thrown out there for me !
I'm just asking a simple question about these Big Block OMC / BRP Motors on STV , River Rockets .
In know way am I looking to start a Black and White Trash Talking Thread !

After All , I sold mine to a man knowing what he intended to do with it , over someone else , who intended to keep it as it was !

Rich Martin 018

[Tom Foley]

I think Dave Bush told me he was seeing 130ish through the lights in Pro Gas but had no interest in staying there.

Tim, sorry about your thread Dude. Welcome to owning an OMC. You cannot mention OMC and Merc in the same thread w/o starting a war ;)

Or vice versa !:D

[Instigator]

I'm Sure That Prejudicial / Judgemental , wasn't being thrown out there for me !
Rich Martin 018
For once it wasn't Rich :D

Guess I didn't mean for that comment to sound so harsh. There's a personal side to my comments about Dennis.

He came to Rumble on the River 10 yrs ago and took the top speed honors w/a 128 in questionable conditions. That was the yr that Clinemark made his un-wordly 126 pass across the barge wake.
Dennis told me to give his award to Clinemark.
He then donated his winnings to the Make a Wish foundation that we were hosting that yr.

Need more? OK.

When he found out I bought my OMC powered River Rocket he asked if he could help :cool: He offered props, set up help, driving help etc, etc. Know who else did that?
No one.
At that point, he had probably the fastest STV on the planet.

When I brought that boat to the River Ranch the first time, he told me we should figure out how to mount his Speedmaster to my motor to see how fast it would go.

Who does that?:thumbsup:

I think we can all learning something from him.

[RNM018]

There's No Dout , That Dennis Is A Class Act !

I Get That !

It's the wrecking this thread , with Mercury vs OMC / BRP

I'm one of the few , that enjoy seeing people try differant things !

Hell , I was a fan of Yammer , and his yamaha project , right till he threw t tantram , and stpped out of the sport for awhile .

I've got notheing but respect for Gordon , and his ability to creat monster motors out of modern technoligy .

I'm not asking about whats been done in the past , or with other hulls .

My interest , here is the STV River Rocket , and the BRP power plant .

I know they will make big numbers , just asking who has , and what where they .


That's All I'm Asking


Rich Martin 018

[mach351]

Rich "pot stirrer" Martin 018

[Schramer]

I am definitely not trying to hijack this thread because I am dyin to see if the BRP's can top some of the Merc numbers someday as I am totally an OMC guy but love rpm's and I personally know the lifespan of a OMC at 8550 rpms lol....I went a lil different direction with my latest build but will always be buildin up the OMC's and havin my fun with them, I just wanted to put a couple quick picks up here so somebody could understand that their old friend is in good hands!!!!!!!!!!!!! (even wit a merc) :thumbsup:

http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt32/Schramer/IMG950474_zps89249f40.jpg (http://s595.photobucket.com/user/Schramer/media/IMG950474_zps89249f40.jpg.html)

http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt32/Schramer/IMG_0176_zps3794148f.jpg (http://s595.photobucket.com/user/Schramer/media/IMG_0176_zps3794148f.jpg.html)

[BeefKid]

i know my motor lasted a couple yrs over 8k until it started gettin little outta round lol this is why im starting fresh lol... love the brp/ river rocket combo! (love the river rockets period lol) but ray and monty's rigs are sweet!! and i dont think anyone will say different :thumbsup:

[baja200merk]

I didnt mean to trash this thread. Rich and Keys Dave both have my number and would have called me if anything I said was a problem, all in good fun. I was just posting what I knew/herd/seen :cheers:

I forgot to mention, I bought one of Gary's MILD 3.0 carb loopers used from NY with a 1.62 sportmaster under it. The motor had 4 yrs of use on it with unknown hours with 120psi compression and the biggest main jets you can buy from OMC. We ran it on beefs 1700lb mirage river racer to make sure it was on par. It was my first time ever driving a river racer and herd they had a flighty reputation. With that in mind we eye balled the motor height on the trailer, screwed my 15x34p ET on, first pass it went 108mph at just under 6100. I turned around and the second pass it turned 6500 and was not done pulling when I let out for a pontoon wake, I slowed down and the GPS was off. We got back to the truck plugged the GPS in and it still said 108. After all the **** I've herd, I'm pissed I didnt make another pass and use my phone as a GPS :mad: :rolleyes:

The point of the story, considering whats bolted to the motor and the fact its bolted to a much faster hull. That thing should stroll! Then with the addition of Dennis' help :eek: Tim I think you will be pleasantly surprised :leaving:

[Instigator]

Rich, the 1st line was to you. The rest was not. Don't read it.

As to OMC's @ RPM, I built this motor 10+ yrs ago. It's every day prop was a 26" drag and it turned it 8300, all factory parts, on pump gas every time out.
Never had it apart.
Sold it many yrs ago and it went on a ski boat pulling tubers. Did that for many more yrs until a new owner put small bore head gaskets on it and mashed the pistons into the heads.
Try that w/one of your hot rod, high revving motors.

*EDIT* Schramer, boat looks great! Kudos on wearing the safety equip too.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/frankyI.jpg (http://s290.photobucket.com/user/Instigatorspixs/media/frankyI.jpg.html)

[Riverratt]

Don't forget Schramer was turning a crossflow those rpms. The loopers have a better life expectancy at the higher rpms.

[thunter764]

Wow are we having fun yet? You guys don't worry about hijacking the thread as its all fun and games plus a little trash talking. It's all good. I just hate to dissappoint all of you when you find out I just bought the stv because of its flat wake and the omc because of its monster torque, all just to do high speed slalom ski :D :leaving:

Lee- yep the boy is growing up. He is a big help in the shop when he is not working on his 1975 911 Carrera...which is like all the time. You know, like when Clay shoved the ls1 in the bmw or rx8?

Dennis- Thanks for the offer. I had no idea you were so close. So we have you AND Tony B right here in NC. Pretty cool. We boat at Kerr Lake most of the time and falls lake on occasions. I have been to Jordan but have never had a good experience there, I have fished Harris years ago. I just know Kerr very well and pop has a place with a dock up there to hang out on. Maybe we can get together and do some testing when I get this project going...IF it ever quits raining!

Oh and here is a little throwback for all of us that have been into this for a while and longer..Remember this?.. [
URL=http://s1245.photobucket.com/user/thunter764/media/20130701_192205_resized_zps15162668.jpg.html]http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg591/thunter764/20130701_192205_resized_zps15162668.jpg[/URL]

I remember when over a 100 made you the man. Now with 135,140,145 being the bar in our outboards you wonder where will it all go. I have been 113 in my 2002 xb/280 combo but that is about it. I will be on a learning curve in the STV so between working thru the engine/set up issues I expect it may take me a while. We will see how it goes and I appreciate all the imput.

[wanagofass]

Subscribed!

[Schramer]

Here is my small bore mota... last run of the season and that powerhead lol....it isn't my fastest or highest reving crossflow but you get the picture lol (Oddfire built in my basement) :thumbsup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxbPlyXZu5w

[boston]

Wow..a little throwback! doesn't seem that long, but that picture was taken over 20 years ago, (man, do I sound old). Funny you mention water skiing, I pulled a lot of water skiers with that boat, they really are very good ski boats, slalom skiers loved it, no wake, and at 35mph, the tunnels are in the water, and it helps
the boat track straight when you cut hard on a slalom ski.

[thunter764]

lol...we are not old just getting broken in good! ...you are right about the wake..or lack of..my daughter loved to wake board behind my last stv modvp because it was so smooth and I could get down to 18mph. I had a friend years ago that was a pro skier. He got behind the boat and was blown away with how flat it was. He had me towing him at 60 while he was cutting. Both of us were amazed.

[Da Bull]

Schramer, Cool vid. Cross flows hold a special place in my heart. Raced one for years back in the day. It was the late 70`s to mid 80`s before we went black.
As i told Gary years ago i wish someone with the proper funding would have pistons/sleeves along w/finger ports built to make a 3.0L out of a 2.6 cross flow. Then install the latest Motec efi system. Might be suprised at the out come. The nastiest cross flow i ever drove (on race gas mounted to a lake boat, Allison XB-2002) had unbeliveable punch. It was the best that Second Effort offered in the Mod-VP cross flow carb version. Even fire crank and all. The boat belonged to Bobby Kitchens and served as our chase boat the year we teamed up to run the 500 mile river race on the Mississippi. After testing the race boat Mr Kitchens told me to go have some fun in the Allison so i did. It was impressive.

DB

[LongShot]

Tim, 113 mph in an XB2002 puts you in the MAN Club for sure. That's like 145 with training wheels:)!!!!!

[Schramer]

Schramer, Cool vid. Cross flows hold a special place in my heart. Raced one for years back in the day. It was the late 70`s to mid 80`s before we went black.
As i told Gary years ago i wish someone with the proper funding would have pistons/sleeves along w/finger ports built to make a 3.0L out of a 2.6 cross flow. Then install the latest Motec efi system. Might be suprised at the out come. The nastiest cross flow i ever drove (on race gas mounted to a lake boat, Allison XB-2002) had unbeliveable punch. It was the best that Second Effort offered in the Mod-VP cross flow carb version. Even fire crank and all. The boat belonged to Bobby Kitchens and served as our chase boat the year we teamed up to run the 500 mile river race on the Mississippi. After testing the race boat Mr Kitchens told me to go have some fun in the Allison so i did. It was impressive.

DB
Yes sir! All I have been saying for years is that I have been piecing all my stuff together with junk that I have found and still make them run like an S.O.B.!!! I basically did everything all on my own and didn't really get any help from the old racers with all their tricks, it was just trial and error!! All I ever needed (and could never get my hands on) was an even fire crank and a CCC X front half and I think that A LOT of people would have been scratching their heads!!!!!!! But never got that chance and everyone that has these parts hoards them because of their collectability, and I don't blame them :mad:

[Mitchie]

Yes sir! All I have been saying for years is that I have been piecing all my stuff together with junk that I have found and still make them run like an S.O.B.!!! I basically did everything all on my own and didn't really get any help from the old racers with all their tricks, it was just trial and error!! All I ever needed (and could never get my hands on) was an even fire crank and a CCC X front half and I think that A LOT of people would have been scratching their heads!!!!!!! But never got that chance and everyone that has these parts hoards them because of their collectability, and I don't blame them :mad:
Dude... I love everything about that boat. Post a bunch more pictures.

[thunter764]

Tim, 113 mph in an XB2002 puts you in the MAN Club for sure. That's like 145 with training wheels:)!!!!!

LOL Dave. Its funny I feel more confident in an Allison than a STV...but then again I think above 120 I might change my mind. :eek:

[Schramer]

Dude... I love everything about that boat. Post a bunch more pictures.


I will work on that bud but I am limited on how many pics I can post cause I had a bunch on my phone (which takes excellent pics surprisingly) and my SD card crashed 5 days ago :mad: Gimme some time and I'll get something up here for ya

[inspectorlance]

Ok, who has the balls to hold it down with over 400hp ? Not me. Like driving a crotch rocket !

[thunter764]

Well getting pretty close to finding out if I still have them...Hope to start testing next weekend :D

[boston]

My boat is back in Fl., but I am here in NC, let me know when you are going, if I can make it, would like to watch. Always could use a break from work.

Dennis
cell# 954 683 1930

[thunter764]

Will do Dennis, thanks. Started it up in the driveway today so will take to the lake pretty soon (I hope) and make some shakedown runs.

Tim
cell# 919-889-2201

[props4u2]

Were you shaking when it started? LOL!!!!!

[RNM018]

Were you shaking when it started? LOL!!!!!

I Bet He Was , Lee !
Them Big Motors Are Intemidating , when there tring to torque the boat off the trialer ! :)

Rich Martin 018

[thunter764]

Yea Lee I was shaking alright ....bought a motor from a guy I did not know, with modifications I knew little about, with a box full of wiring and a manual, never heard it run, never did a compression test, and all my friends and peers saying "have you lost your mind"? :eek:.And to top it off putting it on a STV that was rigged for a merc and making all that work with the omc stuff. I made it work which is part of the whole frankenrude thing. I only had to drill one hole and that was only because the fuel pump bracket had the fuel pump at a 45 degree angle and I set them up vertical.

Well, the truth is I had a lot of confidence in Gary and thought alot of his work. He took the time to show me all the details and I just hoped I would retain 80% of it. And the STV Duane sold me was not all hacked up, the rigging was good and clean. I am just glad it started first time. Now for some testing to see if it will go down the lake.:D

[props4u2]

Glad it's all working out for you Tim. Sounds like you bought the right parts from some good honest people.

[Instigator]

Good stuff Tim. Congrats on your head way to this point.

Have you (Daniel) gotten into the EFI control unit yet?? The map that's in it should get you to about 70% or so but maybe not much more. Should still be enough to make you smile ;)

Got to thinking about it the other night and the last time I ran that motor was on my XR 2002 and it was screwing w/me. I was trying to get a handle on the set up of the boat @ the 80 - 100 range and the motor wouldn't let me. W/enough pedal to go 80, it would pull cleanly to 79 and then rip your head off from 80 - 100 :D In some boats that ain't too big a deal but in the A Bote w/that motor...., it gets your attention.
Anyhow, I got to thinking about it and I'll bet if you (Daniel :p) check the fuel map you'll see a stair step in that 6K range where I changed something and it's dumping way more fuel in the motor at say 6K than it is @ 5700.

One of the lessons Wayne taught me was that people struggle w/the set up at a given RPM and think it's the next part of the curve they need to change when it's actually the wall they're at.

I think I told you that I used a factory test wheel to set the base map on that motor. GREAT tool.
Leave the boat strapped to the trailer and sit in the drivers seat and dial away. Although the local fisherman didn't appreciate that motor @ 7500 like I thought they would.

If you sneak up on it I think you'll have a unique motor that will keep your attention for a while. One warning though, w/the size of the piston dome of those 3.3 pistons compared to the 2.5's you're used to, they will NOT put up w/any detonation. Way bigger surface area = way more heat + way less room for error.
One turn of that stupid knob on the dash (at the wrong load) will give you something for the garden.

Call any time if I can help. Excited for you to have Dennis in your corner.

*NOTE* New # than what you have. 772-913-0669

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/garden2.jpg (http://s290.photobucket.com/user/Instigatorspixs/media/garden2.jpg.html)

[Instigator]

PS, did you re-engineer Waynes throttle linkage defect at the p.head?? One of the things I wished I'd gotten to.

You'll never keep a stable idle unless...

[thunter764]

Lee, question for you. Is the blow out ring necessary or un-necessary after 100? I know on an Allison you can shave off the left side? Seems like I have always run a complete ring on the tunnel's I have owned. On this lower the left side has been shaved. I forgot this lower is a 3.0L until Gary posted the ratio. I think over 120 with a 3.0 case may be asking alot with that case. Whatchathink?

Gary, had a couple of hours so I went to the lake this afternoon to start "dialing in"...well.....crap...no water pressure. I was hoping when I ran it on the hose I was wrong. And temp gauge was inop. So I decided to scratch the test (dont want to start my garden on the first run) and do your most favorite task...drop the lower to inspect the water pump. Like I thought it was going to be good after how long...wishful thinking. May need a reminder of the precautions on the lower removal.

Yea Dennis willingness to help is cool but glad I did not waste his time today!

I may have to discuss the throttle arm engineering. I adjusted the timing damper (for lack of the proper term) and it idles at 900 right now.

As for the dial-a-disaster, remember you had trouble starting cold but once it started you had no problems? With the box set on lean it will not even hit. Set on full rich it turns over 3 seconds and fires right up. Maybe between that and the adjustment I made that problem is solved...for now. I will be looking very close at the set up of that dial once I get going. I want it so that even at full lean there is no chance of piston failure.

Thanks for all the input!

[jphii]

Hey Tim, if you want some help Friday or Saturday I'm pretty free. I also have some cool props and work cheap....:D

If you set that dial so full lean won't burn a piston that's where you will end up running it 99% of the time. If I can find it I have a super secret SDS curve that would probably be plug & play on that motor. It's in my pile of notes somewhere....

[baja200merk]

I forgot this lower is a 3.0L until Gary posted the ratio. I think over 120 with a 3.0 case may be asking alot with that case.

Tim that case is a 2.5 with a 3.0 1.62 gear. Many have been 120+ with a 3.0s on tunnels with no issues.

[Instigator]

Lee, question for you. Is the blow out ring necessary or un-necessary after 100? I know on an Allison you can shave off the left side? Seems like I have always run a complete ring on the tunnel's I have owned. On this lower the left side has been shaved. I forgot this lower is a 3.0L until Gary posted the ratio. I think over 120 with a 3.0 case may be asking alot with that case. Whatchathink?

Gary, had a couple of hours so I went to the lake this afternoon to start "dialing in"...well.....crap...no water pressure. I was hoping when I ran it on the hose I was wrong. And temp gauge was inop. So I decided to scratch the test (dont want to start my garden on the first run) and do your most favorite task...drop the lower to inspect the water pump. Like I thought it was going to be good after how long...wishful thinking. May need a reminder of the precautions on the lower removal.

Yea Dennis willingness to help is cool but glad I did not waste his time today!

I may have to discuss the throttle arm engineering. I adjusted the timing damper (for lack of the proper term) and it idles at 900 right now.

As for the dial-a-disaster, remember you had trouble starting cold but once it started you had no problems? With the box set on lean it will not even hit. Set on full rich it turns over 3 seconds and fires right up. Maybe between that and the adjustment I made that problem is solved...for now. I will be looking very close at the set up of that dial once I get going. I want it so that even at full lean there is no chance of piston failure.

Thanks for all the input!
Tim, when I bought that gear case it had a fair amount of corrosion on it and I worked very hard at removing the corrosion w/o effecting the shape of the housing. That is what you are seeing.
It came w/1.87 gears and I installed the 1.62's. They do offer them for a 2.5 but are few and far between.

R & Ring the l/U on that mid was my least favorite thing to do. To get the unit up high enough to engage d.shaft, shift shaft and cooling tube, you cannot see any of the three. I used a flash light, mirror and many four letter words.
Needed an engineering change and I never did it.
That was a new impeller and I'd be shocked if it is bad. They last WAY longer than the experts tell us.

As to the lack of pressure, even right it will be very low (as in a few lbs) due to lack of t.stats in that motor. It has stainless washers (of top secret sizes) in place of the stats to act as flow restricters. Also, check to see that it still has the smaller tubes in the end of the larger water dump tubes too as those blow out from time to time. I did that to help retain the water in the p.head longer to absorb more BTU's before it's exit.
I'd get your temp gauge fix'd but if you have water exiting the dump tubes at the ramp and under way, I'd run it.
Remember too, that Merc impeller is tiny compared to what that motor came with and it has to totally fill the back of that block (several gallons) before you see water at the dumps.

On the cold start, that issue started suddenly at the end of my time w/it. I described it to you as thinking it was ignition component related but could also be tune or combination of.
One thing that would make you think tune is that after the first start, it was fine the rest of the day. Normally ignition does opposite.

One of the cool things in that box is that it has a "cold start" program. At X* (ambient) you can dump X additional fuel in the motor for X# of crankshaft rotations and then back it out as motor temperature climbs. I had it very, very close at one point.
As in walk out in the morning, hit the key and the crank might have spun twice before lighting off and not dying.
Problem w/that is you only get one shot at it before all of the parameters are skewed for the rest of the day.
Most people just do what you did w/the knob.

The idle linkage issue has to due w/the binding of Waynes intake butterflies. I installed twin (car drag race) return springs on the linkage but the problem is the fulcrum is wrong. It doesn't bind except at that 5 - 10% throttle setting where the springs are no longer pulling the linkage closed.
Those butterflies are designed to be closed to idle properlley. I had it idling @ 500 R's in gear, w/the exhaust sumberged but as soon as you tap the throttle, the butterflies would not fully re-close which left you idling @ 1K+.
Too high too shift and just right for blasting docks/trailers.

As I said before, if you are diligent and methodical in how you sort that motor out, I think you will be very happy w/what you have ;)

[boston]

Tim,
What gear case do you have on that motor? OMC style, or sportmaster?

[thunter764]

Dennis I have learned that it is a 2.5 sportmaster with 1.62 gears. I was thinking it was a 3.0 but I was wrong. I did not even know you could get 3.0 1.62's in a 2.5 case,..learn something new every day.

Gary, pulled the lower tonite and that water pump was smoked! It had put a ridge on the driveshaft and I had to cut it off. I know it takes a while to fill those omc blocks but I just knew something was not right and did not want to run it hot. I figured the water pump needed to be replaced anyway just to be safe. Man was I right. Now if I can get it replaced and back together with use of four letter words I will be happy. I did not see a water pump guide tube...did you use one? If not that would make it really difficult for sure.
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg591/thunter764/2002%20Triad%20STV%20Mod%20VP/20130724_175010_zpsbf358a80.jpg

I noticed the butterfly binding thing. I adjusted the timing actuator dampner (what the heck do you call that thing) so the butterflies could close. May be a temp fix but works for a start.
The engine is cool for sure. Already had the people at the dock slack jawed asking questions once they got over the shock. They like the name "Frankenrude". I will get it sorted out, heck you did all the real hard work...
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg591/thunter764/2002%20Triad%20STV%20Mod%20VP/20130723_174951_zps4a6e4aba.jpg


While I have everyone's attention. The race cable steering... What is the correct tension. Tight, taught or a little flop in the cables in the long sections...hand pull and lock down or use a tool? It seems to be free and responsive using the method of hand pull and lock down but it has a little flop in the cables between the front outside roller and the tie bars when you tow it down the road. Whatchathink?

Kevin thanks for the info...I guess I have no excuse now to not go over 120...dang

Hey Joe, Thanks for the offer but not sure I will make it back in time Saturday to do some testing but the weather sure looks good for it. BTW thanks for the wiring harness, worked great. I have a family reunion at Kerr lake the first weekend of August on Saturday. My big plan is to set up friday morning and then play with the boat. (I dont think anyone is coming until late Friday) If you or anyone wants to come up Friday I will be there. If not maybe late summer or early fall we could plan a day to meet up with a few people.

[RNM018]

It has to have enough slack to let it trim . Mine would get tight , at a point then go over center and get slack again .
Even with the slack , the torque keeps the tention on the left cable , while your running . Never had any issues , with shut down , So must have been fine .
I remember watching Greg Dunnum , going out in his STV , Mod VP . His steering cables look like an old Laundry Line , they where so loss !
So just find the tightest spot , and make them Tight there , it should be well higher then you will ever run the trim at .


Rich Martin 018

[thunter764]

lol...laundry line..Excellent info Rich..ok sounds like based on that I am good! Thanks, thats one more thing off my list.

[props4u2]

Tim, I really don't know the answer on the blow ring on that boat to be honest. I'm sure someone will answer that knows. I would think it would not be a problem since a CLE will work well in to the teens. I think that impeller would have been ok for another year or two, just saying!!!!! :D

[Instigator]

Wow! Sucks about the impeller.
No on the guide tube and that would be a huge help.
Didn't have one for the Merc. L/U.

[jphii]

That may work (next Friday, the 2nd?) Tim. I have to be up there anyways, the old lady is flying in from FL.

I always had slack in my steering, even at the tightest trim point. I just pulled them by hand and called it good. Never had a problem....

[LongShot]

Tim I think you are referring to the throttle/ timing arm? Rig looks nice. By the way get you an extra long sleeve machined out of aluminum for the wp. Makes life so much simpler and will not melt which by the looks of the impeller might be a problem. That pup looks like it is breathing fire.

Dave

[inspectorlance]

I cut about 3/8" off of the guide tube. Tall enough to work and short enough to see when aligning.

[thunter764]

10 4 Lee..lol...yea boys that impeller was used up.
Gary np on the lower..it was no harder than a merc using a guide sleve cut off like inspector lance said.
Dave i will have to check into that aluminum sleeve.
Yea Joe fri aug 2 is right..let me know if u can make it
Dennis if you can make it come on up too...I think I will bring the Allison too and pop will be there with big bird (XB21 300xs)

I stopped by the ramp on the way home to test my water pressure and battery to weak to spin it over..lets see..why did I think it would be ok when I had to boost it at home?...I must be working too much..

[boston]

Tim,
Give me a call sometime, I am up in your area usually once a week, I can be more help with the boat on the trailer, have a look at the set up and gear case.
I run a sport master and cable-pulley steering.

[jphii]

I'll find out what time she is getting to RDU so I'll know how much time I'll have. I'll keep ya posted.

[thunter764]

Sounds good Dennis. Maybe I will bring it to work in Raleigh but I will call you first to see if you are coming my way..thanks..

OK Joe let me know. Going for a on trailer start test tomorrow if it will quit raining. Never see so much rain in my life!

[Hot Shot Merc]

Sounds good Dennis. Maybe I will bring it to work in Raleigh but I will call you first to see if you are coming my way..thanks..

OK Joe let me know. Going for a on trailer start test tomorrow if it will quit raining. Never see so much rain in my life!
Anything new to report?

[thunter764]

Did not run it this wekend but got it back in the water last weekend and started right up with a good battery...imagine that :rolleyes:..had awesome water pressure and all other gauges looked good. I was solo so I kept the trailer in the water and ran close to the dock.. Right off I could tell it had monster torque. Cruised around a bit and the torque steer was insane and anytime I rolled into it the boat felt out of control..so I figured the engine height was too much (set by eye looking down the hull from the front and looking for the lower unit water inlet to be just in sight) Water pressure was good so I decided to run a few slow laps. About 15 minutes in with water pressure at 20psi, pyros below 900 if felt like the engine was tightning up..looked at the temp..220..not good..Idled back to the trailer...gauge never moved. Took it home and checked the engine height. Propshaft was 2 3/8 above the pad. Set it to 1 5/8. Ran the engine in the tub. With the temp at 140 on the gauge my temp gun read 105 at the sender. 120 was as hot as I could find anywhere. So it looks like it was reading 35 high. Probably me just being oversensitive . So I will try it again...sometime...too many irons in the fire right now.

P.S If I am moving too slow and someone wants to take over just bring $17700 and you can have at it :D

[baja200merk]

Sounds like progress :thumbsup:

[Instigator]

I could tell it had monster torque. Cruised around a bit and the torque steer was insane and anytime I rolled into it the boat felt out of control.. :D
Excellent.
Sounds about right ;)

[Hot Shot Merc]

Good to hear. How much setback are you running? The reason I ask is Dave Dreifort runs no set back and around 2.5" above the pad and runs in the 130's with a 34 cleaver. What type wheel are you starting this testing with?

[thunter764]

LOL...

Rob, 5.5 inch set back and a 29 srx on it now. I may end up with no set back and my 30 mazco cleaver. Is he running a 3 or 4 blade?

[baja200merk]

A 29 with a 1.62 would be equal to running a 1.87 with a 34.25p if both have 12% slip ;)

[Hot Shot Merc]

LOL...

Rob, 5.5 inch set back and a 29 srx on it now. I may end up with no set back and my 30 mazco cleaver. Is he running a 3 or 4 blade?3 blade merc cleaver. I ran both of mine bolted to the transom as well and found better handeling and balance with a 2.5 merc. Your motor is a lil heavier but I doubt it will matter. You can adjust your CG by moving batterie and or fuel tank forward a lil being that yours is the modvp. I always ran 3 blade cleavers as well.

[thunter764]

test test test

[thunter764]

FrankenSTV is off the table and in the water

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmb7UqxjiNA

[rgsauger]

134.6.......Daaaaaaammmmmnnnnn!!!!!!

[Instigator]

FrankenSTV is off the table and in the water

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmb7UqxjiNA

Always liked the sound of that thing idling. Loved the video from Daniel knee boarding too!
I'm thinking in the world of the internet and that everything has already been done......, knee boarding behind a STV??? Especially a Mod VP??

Might be a first.

BTW, that thing launches pretty good for a top end wheel w/1.62's ;)

[thunter764]

LOL..yea it makes a pretty good watersports boat and yes considering the 1.62's and a 29 it pulls very hard. I decided to do some launches since it was blowing out at 95-100 with engine height at 3/4 and 1/2 respectively. I think I need a blow out ring..open to suggestions though.

[Schramer]

LOL..yea it makes a pretty good watersports boat and yes considering the 1.62's and a 29 it pulls very hard. I decided to do some launches since it was blowing out at 95-100 with engine height at 3/4 and 1/2 respectively. I think I need a blow out ring..open to suggestions though.
Kneeboarding behind a full blown race STV....F-ing awesome!!!! I wouldn't do anything to the setup till you try another prop as I had one that no matter where i set the motor it would blow out around 100 WITH a blowout ring lol!

[thunter764]

Alright that is what I will do since you are the second person that suggested that. I will bolt on my 30 cleaver and see what happens...then I will try my 22 and have fantasy's of running Jaspar this weekend.. Thanks guys

BTW I weighed it....and the real number is...1210# with no fuel... 1550# as run in video (fuel plus me at 215 dressed and ready)

[jphii]

Forget the cleaver, I've got a prop that boat will love.

[baja200merk]

my 15x34 hydromotive ET slides on the 2.5 1.62 propshaft just fine. Fill it up with 10 gallons of 87, it ran 105 at 5800 with a box stock 225 e-tec powerhead 380hrs but it was so rough I felt like I was on deadliest catch. Its got a 111 in it not bad for a bass boat motor. Next thursday I'm gonna put the big prop on it and pray for no wind.

That EFI tree.tree needs some wheel, 6800 = 125+ no problem and it will get there faster then you think.


Joe- MACH?

[Nurimex]

Oh well, guess its just me then I certainly wouldnt want them to go into the art of table laying, just to sit down somewhere that looks nice when they try the food. They are trying to show those in a domestic situation how to cook I thought ...

[jphii]

Joe- MACH?

Maybe;)

[thunter764]

Ok Joe whatcha thinking?

Here is an off the wall thought. I am going to spin my 32 Trophy from my Hustler since the left one cracked a blade...or should that be a warning?


and Numirex
"Oh well, guess its just me then I certainly wouldnt want them to go into the art of table laying, just to sit down somewhere that looks nice when they try the food. They are trying to show those in a domestic situation how to cook I thought ... Say What?? Are you speaking Rumynija?
Wait a minute, I will attempt to translate. You are saying a purpose built race boat has no business pulling any watertoy of any kind, its degrading...How did I do? (btw that is humor in the states in case you do not have it there) :D

[Schramer]

Well I set a goal that I thought was somewhat easily obtainable but I failed :mad: Timing whooped my ass as I cannot go out and run as I please so my last scheduled weekend to run the conditions were less than ideal and only ran 118 outta the 120 i set the goal for this year. The boat was ALL over the place and I still had the box set a lil high but I didn't like the whole situation so I pulled the plug....not entirely my fault but I'm still putting her away for the year disappointed. I set it up exactly the way I had it last time when i hit 117 fairly easily compared to 118 this time but I guess there is always springtime :thumbsup: Heres the vid of my last pass.......

<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allownetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid595.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt32%2FSchramer%2FMVI_0545_zps6648c31f.mp4">