Outboard Top Speed World Record 200 mph Attempt

[mach351]

Yup call Brendan....he is the man who will know where to get you one.

[oldschoolltv]

Sweet!! looks just like an r/c rigger, how long is it?

[Spectre Powerboats]

It is 18 foot total length.

[milkdud]

Nice photos. Did you post its weight? It really is floating light.

[Spectre Powerboats]

Sorry, weight is a secret for now.:D

[Rayzor]

Sorry, weight is a secret for now.:D

Weight really isn't that much of a secret imo, as I'm certain it's within 50lbs one way or another of 300lbs. A full composite capsuled tunnel weighs under 400lbs, so I'd think it should be no more than 100lbs lighter. It's an awesome looking little rig, and I hope everything goes well for you guys! Just please try your best to put safety at the forefront of this effort..........

[scawd the dog]

Wow! I don't know what running weight your shooting for but at 1100lbs with just 500 outboard ponies you should be cooking at 200+ !
That rigger is a fine looking specimen!

[ssmith007]

IMO. I believe it depends on the coefficient of drag. Total drag (Aero+Hydro) vs total effective power. I think weight surely has a direct relationship to drag. All this must be balanced with stability, which when increased may have a negative impact on drag. This is my opinion and a rather sloppy way of expressing it. The experts will point out where my thoughts are incorrect. I welcome their corrections. What a fantastic project from a great group of brave people. Kindest Regards. Smitty

[CDave]

It is 18 foot total length.

What made you decide on 18 foot over a longer hull?

[Ken Warby]

I hope you can handle this, but here is the just released NEW UIM cockpit rules for boats over 150mph.



Proposed text

World records may be attempted with the following craft:


All UIM series and classes,
American Powerboat Association classes,
Prototypes

“For classes requiring a UIM or APBA registered cockpit and where the existing record exceeds 150 mph, additional requirements will apply. These requirements are the following:
The registration of the cockpit is required to satisfy the following:


The cockpit in the hull attempting the World Record shall be registered as described by the UIM registration process and the following.
The cockpit builder shall be a registered UIM cockpit builder.
As part of the registration process, the engineering analysis of the cockpit structure shall be submitted for review. This analysis will use the loads that would exist from the pressures resulting from the projected speed of the hull, entry angles, plus a safety factor and show that the integrity of the cockpit can be maintained. The analysis also shall include the structural analysis of the shell, windshield, roll cage (if applicable) and attachment to the hull.
As part of the certification process, laminate samples representing the design/build required by the registration process will be supplied (cockpit, shell and their junction) for bend testing at load deflection values consistent with the analytical applied crash loads. These samples will be tested in accordance with the process referenced in 509, UIM Cockpit Test Standard with appropriate loading and deflection requirements consistent with the structural analysis accomplished in 3) above.

[whipper]

Can you acuate the sponsons? Ive always thought being able to rotate the sponsons on this type of craft could be a benifit in the upper aero limitts instead just trim and design. Like a foil/Sponson effect,flaps if you will. I know they are very effective in the 140mph river race boats that incorperated wings to the bow to control there hulls limitts giving the hull design an exrta tool to surpase the hulls limittes alone.

[Spectre Powerboats]

Scroll down to Todd Lamb on this link. http://www.uimpowerboating.com/vsite/vcontent/page/custom/0,8510,4916-152037-169253-32420-136094-custom-item,00.html I have been building APBA approved capsules for 20 years and UIM certified capsules for 10 years. I am aware of what they will want. Thanks for the heads up though. I'll take all the help and advice I can get. Good looking out for us. How is your guys deal coming together Ken?

[Instigator]

I hope you can handle this, but here is the just released NEW UIM cockpit rules for boats over 150mph. Proposed text

World records may be attempted with the following craft:


All UIM series and classes,
American Powerboat Association classes,
Prototypes

“For classes requiring a UIM or APBA registered cockpit and where the existing record exceeds 150 mph, additional requirements will apply. These requirements are the following:
The registration of the cockpit is required to satisfy the following:


The cockpit in the hull attempting the World Record shall be registered as described by the UIM registration process and the following.
The cockpit builder shall be a registered UIM cockpit builder.
As part of the registration process, the engineering analysis of the cockpit structure shall be submitted for review. This analysis will use the loads that would exist from the pressures resulting from the projected speed of the hull, entry angles, plus a safety factor and show that the integrity of the cockpit can be maintained. The analysis also shall include the structural analysis of the shell, windshield, roll cage (if applicable) and attachment to the hull.
As part of the certification process, laminate samples representing the design/build required by the registration process will be supplied (cockpit, shell and their junction) for bend testing at load deflection values consistent with the analytical applied crash loads. These samples will be tested in accordance with the process referenced in 509, UIM Cockpit Test Standard with appropriate loading and deflection requirements consistent with the structural analysis accomplished in 3) above.


Welcome to the big leagues.

[Ken Warby]

We have a UIM certified cockpit installed and it looks like it just became junk. Here is the UIM rules for the WWSR cockpits...........
Proposed text

“…including a UIM registered reinforced cockpit. The registration of the cockpit is required to satisfy the following:


The cockpit in the hull attempting the World Record shall be registered as described by the UIM registration and the following requirements.
The cockpit builder shall be a registered UIM cockpit builder.
In addition the cockpit should be mounted inside a shock absorbing shell. This shell should be built using multiple layers of cores that would absorb the first shock.
The cockpit should be equipped with a safety seat. Safety restraint (6 or 7 points) should be attached to the pilot’s safety seat.
As part of the registration process, the following analysis shall be submitted for review:

Engineering analysis of the cockpit structure: this analysis will use the loads that would exist from the pressures resulting from the projected speed of the hull, entry angles, plus a safety factor and show that the integrity of the cockpit can be maintained.
Engineering analysis of the pilot safety: this analysis will use the loads that would exist from the pressures resulting from the projected speed of the hull, entry angles, plus a safety factor and show that the integrity of the pilot can be maintained.
Structural analysis of the shell, windshield, roll cage (if applicable) and attachment to the hull.


As part of the certification process, laminate samples representing the design/build required by the registration process ( cockpit, shell and their junction) will be supplied for bend testing at load deflection values consistent with the analytical applied crash loads. These samples will be tested in accordance with the process referenced in 509, UIM cockpit test standard with the appropriate loading and deflection requirements consistent with the structural analysis accomplished in 5) above.


A World record will not be approved without a cockpit registration which successfully satifies these requirements. It is going to be an expensive engineering nightmare.

[Spectre Powerboats]

Welcome to the big leagues.

Yep. There is a lot more that goes into one of these, than just hanging a big ole motor on her. :D I have made some 5000N plus lay-ups to raise my certification, just have not got around to sending them in. In 2003 we actually hit over 4000N, but we only needed 2000N then. Knock on wood, I have built 5 capsules out of the older design Pugh capsule molds, Gary sold me in the90's. 25 out of the Caniff/Lamb capsule molds, 2 off of my own mold design and a dozen plus cockpits for offshore. There has been no fatalities and I will go to bed tonight and pray I did not jinx myself.

[Spectre Powerboats]

Luckily Ken we knew these were coming, because of what the UIM guys overseas are going through, so we built our that way. We still have side pods, roll cage and a few other items to finish ours up. Sorry to hear about yours. That stinks!

[afr]

sam blanco with APBA not sure about the UIM contact / (name spelling is off ) was the go to guy for capsule certification,s and the last i heard in 2006/7 was 5000N

[Instigator]

Yep. There is a lot more that goes into one of these, than just hanging a big ole motor on her. :D I have made some 5000N plus lay-ups to raise my certification, just have not got around to sending them in. In 2003 we actually hit over 4000N, but we only needed 2000N then. Knock on wood, I have built 5 capsules out of the older design Pugh capsule molds, Gary sold me in the90's. 25 out of the Caniff/Lamb capsule molds, 2 off of my own mold design and a dozen plus cockpits for offshore. There has been no fatalities and I will go to bed tonight and pray I did not jinx myself.
Very cool.
It's amazing to see what it really takes to do something like this. A big # on a radar gun or GPS is way impressive but to do something that is A, semi safe and B, recognized by the APBA or UIM....., totally different.
Way harder to put a "real" # up and have it stick.

Glad to see you have the brains and the ability to be smart about it.

I am friends with Mr. Warby and one of the most depressing things about his record is that EVERYONE that has attempted to break it has died trying.

You are preparing to go somewhere almost as scary.

[1FASTLASER]

Way outta my league but so impressive to watch this unfold. Would love to be there and see the runs. I could wash the boat or check the air pressure ....LOL

[olboatman]

Way outta my league but so impressive to watch this unfold. Would love to be there and see the runs. I could wash the boat or check the air pressure ....LOL

:thumbsup:I'll wax the rig and help the driver suit up!:D

[Instigator]

:thumbsup:I'll wax the rig and help the driver suit up!:D
I'll push the wheel barrow w/the drivers cajone's ;)

[T2x]

We have a UIM certified cockpit installed and it looks like it just became junk. Here is the UIM rules for the WWSR cockpits...........
Proposed text

“…including a UIM registered reinforced cockpit. The registration of the cockpit is required to satisfy the following:


The cockpit in the hull attempting the World Record shall be registered as described by the UIM registration and the following requirements.
The cockpit builder shall be a registered UIM cockpit builder.
In addition the cockpit should be mounted inside a shock absorbing shell. This shell should be built using multiple layers of cores that would absorb the first shock.
The cockpit should be equipped with a safety seat. Safety restraint (6 or 7 points) should be attached to the pilot’s safety seat.
As part of the registration process, the following analysis shall be submitted for review:

Engineering analysis of the cockpit structure: this analysis will use the loads that would exist from the pressures resulting from the projected speed of the hull, entry angles, plus a safety factor and show that the integrity of the cockpit can be maintained.
Engineering analysis of the pilot safety: this analysis will use the loads that would exist from the pressures resulting from the projected speed of the hull, entry angles, plus a safety factor and show that the integrity of the pilot can be maintained.
Structural analysis of the shell, windshield, roll cage (if applicable) and attachment to the hull.


As part of the certification process, laminate samples representing the design/build required by the registration process ( cockpit, shell and their junction) will be supplied for bend testing at load deflection values consistent with the analytical applied crash loads. These samples will be tested in accordance with the process referenced in 509, UIM cockpit test standard with the appropriate loading and deflection requirements consistent with the structural analysis accomplished in 5) above.


A World record will not be approved without a cockpit registration which successfully satifies these requirements. It is going to be an expensive engineering nightmare.

One other question in addition to Ken's very thorough information above.... How big is the "halo" (space between helmet and cockpit cage) around the driver's helmet in your cockpit?

[Spectre Powerboats]

There is at least a 6" minimum all the way around the head area. We are incorporating an ISP padding system in the sides and the top, just like a Top Fuel Car has. The boat also will have a foam poured in seat to custom fit the driver and the Hans or R3 device.

[Phil Conant]

Great thread, good luck with your project!

[largecar91]

I know I have built and driven boats using Todds capsules and been in accidents in them. I would never hesitate to climb into one of his capsules.

[Rodney Nance]

There is at least a 6" minimum all the way around the head area. We are incorporating an ISP padding system in the sides and the top, just like a Top Fuel Car has. The boat also will have a foam poured in seat to custom fit the driver and the Hans or R3 device. I am a big believer in not letting the drivers helmet get a head start before it contacts a roll bar in a straight line boat because wheel shake is not a problem as it is in asphalt racing. Vibration and harmonics you still have to allow for. Just a thought.

[afr]

studies has shown seat belts stretch up to as much as 15 inches under a small 5 g load

[T2x]

I am a big believer in not letting the drivers helmet get a head start before it contacts a roll bar in a straight line boat because wheel shake is not a problem as it is in asphalt racing. Vibration and harmonics you still have to allow for. Just a thought.

The base of the skull and neck must have room to stretch during high G incidents. If anything stops that action a fatal Basel skull fracture can and will occur (The injury that killed Dale Earnhardt, Mark Lavin, and dozens of others without sufficient "halo" clearance). Locking the head in will also create this scenario as the shoulders and neck ballistically compress upward toward the skull.

200 mph accidents create all of the dynamics of a plane crash. The late Doug lewis summed it up best when decribing a proper capsule test...."Place the capsule near a body of water with a person sitting in it....then have a bullet train accelerate to 180 mph and hit the capsule dead on knocking it into the water..... if the occupant survives and all the systems work...the capsule is good."

You are dealing with forces here that are almost incomprehensible....

[powerabout]

the brain has a g limit, thats what you have to work with

[Spectre Powerboats]

I am taking as much safety precautions as possible, but my main goal is not to crash. :) Top fuel boats crash at over 200mph all the time and most live through it. We will be ok.

[afr]

i like a post i saw years ago when we talked about going for this record but no one was willing to give up there v8 j/e for testing lol
anyways the post was make the capsule round like a ball you may be dizzy as hell but alive lol

[Point Five]

Just subscribing, good luck!

[R.grover]

how about an electric outboard. lots of torque then. ive hurd they playn with one on a f1 boat in aus

[Instigator]

."Place the capsule near a body of water with a person sitting in it....then have a bullet train accelerate to 180 mph and hit the capsule dead on knocking it into the water..... if the occupant survives and all the systems work...the capsule is good."

You are dealing with forces here that are almost incomprehensible....

That is one of the scariest things I've ever read and maybe the most accurate description of how violent a race boat crash is.

[Spectre Powerboats]

That is one of the scariest things I've ever read and maybe the most accurate description of how violent a race boat crash is.
People have been crashing boats over 200 mph for 20 years, 98% of them have lived, whether it is a fixed capsule or a break away capsule. There has even been many Top Fuel Hydros crash at the 250 mph mark and the most of been fine. I do not know of one person killed in an outrigger and all the Big Dog Top Fuel Teams run them now, so I feel good about our chances. This boat has some really cool safety stuff that I will disclose later as it gets more finished. Boat is here in Ohio, so I will post pics once we start rigging.

[Instigator]

People have been crashing boats over 200 mph for 20 years, 98% of them have lived, whether it is a fixed capsule or a break away capsule. There has even been many Top Fuel Hydros crash at the 250 mph mark and the most of been fine. I do not know of one person killed in an outrigger and all the Big Dog Top Fuel Teams run them now, so I feel good about our chances. This boat has some really cool safety stuff that I will disclose later as it gets more finished. Boat is here in Ohio, so I will post pics once we start rigging.
No doubt.

I think most of the big changes started coming around in the late '80's. I think in one yr we lost 6 or more drivers between the F-1 V-8s' that they were attempting to run on 17' (2.4 Merc) Champ boats and the Top Fuel hydro guys that were just getting into the 200 MPH zone.
For the 1st 100 yrs of boat racing, the belief was that we wanted the drivers thrown free of the crash scene.
In that late '80's era (as I recall) is when they started learning that it was the sudden deceleration of the brain against the inside of the drivers skull (at impact) that was killing them. First came seat/lap belts which was a big improvement and then came the capsules.

So far, I think I agree w/everything you've posted. Some of my comments are aimed at the readers that think a 100+ pass in their toy w/zero safety equipment is fun. You learn the smart ones after their first swim.
If they start showing up wearing their gear, they pass. If they don't, they will be wet at least one more time.

I am scheduled to be back in Ohio in November and December both and may have to snoop out your base of operations. Think I already know where it is ;)

[mrpenguin]

Are you leaning any direction for power?

It sounds like your ducks are in the correct row and that you are really making the correct effort. I dont doubt you will be able to break the 176mph record, the big question is with what power?

Thanks for sharing.

[JWTjr.]

Some of my comments are aimed at the readers that think a 100+ pass in their toy w/zero safety equipment is fun. You learn the smart ones after their first swim.
If they start showing up wearing their gear, they pass. If they don't, they will be wet at least one more time.

;) hehe...too true.

[Spectre Powerboats]

Are you leaning any direction for power?

It sounds like your ducks are in the correct row and that you are really making the correct effort. I dont doubt you will be able to break the 176mph record, the big question is with what power?

Thanks for sharing.
The honest answer for power is "I don't know." Originally we were going with Mercury. That deal went sour, so I was pushing for OMC, but some of the people who were going to help me with parts for it now are showing little interest. So, another Mercury potential deal presented itself here about a month ago and now it looks to be dead to. I am dummying the boat up with Mercury stuff for now, just to get rudder placement and some rigging done. I think it is going to come down to either a lot of help with the OMC, because of my lack of knowledge with them or just going to have to go with what I know, which is Mercury equipment. We will see.

[Rayzor]

Since the world speed record for propeller driven boats is held by a turbine powered boat, why not set the outboard world speed record with turbine power? PT-6s are plentiful and would give you the reliable power you need. Just a thought that I'm certain you've already factored in or out already, but it seems a lot easier - especially seeing as it sounds like neither of the big outboard manufacturers are wanting to help you out at all. Your technical help on turbines is only a phone call away - Rik at Arneson...........

[afr]

The honest answer for power is "I don't know." Originally we were going with Mercury. That deal went sour, so I was pushing for OMC, but some of the people who were going to help me with parts for it now are showing little interest. So, another Mercury potential deal presented itself here about a month ago and now it looks to be dead to. I am dummying the boat up with Mercury stuff for now, just to get rudder placement and some rigging done. I think it is going to come down to either a lot of help with the OMC, because of my lack of knowledge with them or just going to have to go with what I know, which is Mercury equipment. We will see.
thats the same thing happen before when it came down to it everyone back out

[olboatman]

thats the same thing happen before when it came down to it everyone back out
Ifs thats the case what can we do to help so that does not happen now ! Any thing that can help --- just let us know. Gary

[Instigator]

Define "back out" ???
The level you're looking to go to, no ones going to do it for free or as a friend/favor.
Another thing is the risk factor. To get involved from a business stand point and something goes wrong......, what do they get for their $$ and effort?

And according to many of local experts you should be able to just screw on a 300 drag and lay waste to that record.

Just sayin....

[JWTjr.]

And according to many of local experts you should be able to just screw on a 300 drag and lay waste to that record.

Just sayin.... Gary you're killin' me...love it!

[powerabout]

GG had a hydro with say 500hp and they did 170+ and a little V6 is gunna do what?

[CLIMAX]

We are based out of Corpus Christi, Stepping out of the turbine world for a while, I have known Dan for quite a long time. Boat is currently under construction, Monty has first engine together, second is under construction , Going after every record we can. I have planned this for about the last fifteen years.

[RBT]

Gary you're killin' me...love it!

A UIM legal motor went 160 in the kilo, a hydro has to be a lot faster. Add another 40 or so hp the the UIM legal motor. I don't know about 200 but more than 176 certainly is there.
For what it is worth, my preferred engine specialist was friends with the late Gary Garbrecht and the kilo engine hp is/was nowhere near what people think.

[Hot Shot Merc]

A UIM legal motor went 160 in the kilo, a hydro has to be a lot faster. Add another 40 or so hp the the UIM legal motor. I don't know about 200 but more than 176 certainly is there.
For what it is worth, my preferred engine specialist was friends with the late Gary Garbrecht and the kilo engine hp is/was nowhere near what people think. Great points Rob. I agree with you. Would like to see what a merc could do regardless of the 200 mph goal here. Anything close would be a huge acomplishment.

Also,best of luck to you with this project aerotech:thumbsup:

[Instigator]

A UIM legal motor went 160 in the kilo, a hydro has to be a lot faster. Add another 40 or so hp the the UIM legal motor. I don't know about 200 but more than 176 certainly is there.
First off, I remember when Guido did that but I don't remember it being an actual Kilo run. I remember reading that he all of a sudden went that fast but not that it was a record??? Two way different things.
Please post a link to the UIM record.

Secondly, 40 HP's = 16 MPH's?? Really? And from 160?? On what planet?

If you added 40 HP's to a boat already running 160 it wouldn't even register on your GPS/radar gun.

Come on Rob are your winters really that long?

[RBT]

No no no, what I was trying to say was guido ran 159, it was a kilo. One pass was 161. Both pass's were in the high 160's exiting the traps. He was out of boat not motor.
His motor made in the 380 range.
Add 40 hp to that, remove the constraints that a UIM f1 motor has add methanol and an advanced efi (motec) and you can add 40 hp., a RELIABLE 420 plus hp is no problem. This isn't scream and fly hp, but REAL hp.
Now add a hydro hull, just using Guido's existing 380 hp on the hydro and I would think you would be right at the record.
The feat of 176 is impressive, but they had more and off the button the hp was similar to what a current merc is making. One would hope that with hull and prop design that this isn't the great white buffalo it is being made out to be. Money, balls and a few smart guys can pull it off. The biggest fear I see is being involved and with the current litigious society that is upon us and having an accident.

[FrenchPhil]

Guido's record from the UIM website:


<tbody>
RECORD No
DATE
PILOTE
NAT.
CLASS
ENGINE
HULL
MPH
KMH


3588
2005
G. Cappellini
ITA
CIRCUIT FORMULA 1 - 2.5 Lit.
DAC
MERCURY
159,234 MPH
256,256 KMH

</tbody>

[Instigator]

Guido's record from the UIM website:


<tbody>
RECORD No
DATE
PILOTE
NAT.
CLASS
ENGINE
HULL
MPH
KMH


3588
2005
G. Cappellini
ITA
CIRCUIT FORMULA 1 - 2.5 Lit.
DAC
MERCURY
159,234 MPH
256,256 KMH

</tbody>

Very cool.

Been reading for the 11 yrs that this site has existed that the outright record is easily beaten by a 2.5 and RBT's notes would seem to validate it.
I would think one of you guys would step to the plate, strap one to a pallet and send it to Ohio and be the man. Would shut all us doubters up.

On Guido's record, I would like to see (in print) what it takes to set one of those records. I know they have true APBA/UIM "Kilo Runs" all the time for multiple classes.
Was this set at a "Kilo Run" or was it a one off, "F-1" record.
As in, on a "surveyed and certified" course??? Not being a smart ass here but a record ain't a record unless it's real.

[RBT]

Gary I it a real deal kilo.
The omc's don't make the power everyone thinks. The sea way motor can't compete with the merc and it doesn't have rules on rpm, it is .5 a liter bigger and they can,port what ever they want. The cranks will not survive, specifically the top bearing. That little merc that everyone loves to hate is one bad little motor. There is a big difference between a drag motor and a kilo or roundy round motor as you have also touted over the years and those big motors have a host of problems that the little motor doesn't.
I would like to see anyone other than merc get the record ( they are hanging us out to dry, and rapeing us all the way to the end) but I am also a realist and am not blinded by scream and fly claims.

[Instigator]

Gary I it a real deal kilo.
The omc's don't make the power everyone thinks. The sea way motor can't compete with the merc and it doesn't have rules on rpm, it is .5 a liter bigger and they can,port what ever they want. The cranks will not survive, specifically the top bearing. That little merc that everyone loves to hate is one bad little motor. There is a big difference between a drag motor and a kilo or roundy round motor as you have also touted over the years and those big motors have a host of problems that the little motor doesn't.
I would like to see anyone other than merc get the record ( they are hanging us out to dry, and rapeing us all the way to the end) but I am also a realist and am not blinded by scream and fly claims.
Interesting.
I know Sammy Scelio (sp?) was fast in F-1 w/a OMC a few yrs back but I thought I was seeing rules issues too and I stop paying attention as soon as that starts happening.
As to displacement advantage, hasn't Merc been building a 3.0 for the last 20 or so yrs?? Now a 3.2 liter.
Who chooses the knife for the gun fight?
Kinda like a 2500cc V-twin Harley/Buell owning the Pro Stock motorcycle class in drag racing that all the sheep worship. Course they don't tell us the ricers are limited to 1500cc's.

On power....., put a 2.5 on a huge boat like they ran the 8's on back in the day and run it on a 1 1/2 mile oval like they did in the day. Not a road course w/tiny straights like the UIM does today but two big ass straightaways connected by two corners. I have some pretty good, ancient VHS tapes from the day, including when they changed the rules to "try" and make the Mercs competitive.
A UIM 2.5 would be a glowing ingot by the end of the first straightaway.

You know what color my blood is but been reading/hearing the same crap for ever now. Lets see it.
We have a guy w/the hull, the funds, and the cajones. Should be easy.
Who needs the factory? The baddest Mercs aren't coming from them anyhow.

A record is a record and this one is the holly grail to me. Since it was set by a weak fiche moter 30 yrs ago it seems it's waiting to be broken.

[Instigator]

BTW, here is the APBA Champ Boat Kilo Record. I know the motors are more restricted now but not sure they were when this record was set and might explain why it hasn't been broken since then.

OPC CHAMP BOAT/1998
KILO A
143.716

11/29/1996
PARKER, AZ
CALIFORNIA GOLD
TODD BOWDEN
MONROVIA CA
TODD BOWDEN

[Spectre Powerboats]

We are based out of Corpus Christi, Stepping out of the turbine world for a while, I have known Dan for quite a long time. Boat is currently under construction, Monty has first engine together, second is under construction , Going after every record we can. I have planned this for about the last fifteen years.
Not sure who this is, but good luck with the records. I do want to make sure that everyone on here knows I am not affiliated with this person or this record boat, just so there is no confusion. Thanks Todd

[Hot Shot Merc]

Not sure who this is, but good luck with the records. I do want to make sure that everyone on here knows I am not affiliated with this person or this record boat, just so there is no confusion. Thanks ToddI thought it was odd to. The first post from a new member? I'd be interested to know more. He stated second engine. I wonder if that means hes planning to break the 200 mark with two outboards? Hmmm,interesting!

[Spectre Powerboats]

I thought it was odd to. The first post from a new member? I'd be interested to know more. He stated second engine. I wonder if that means hes planning to break the 200 mark with two outboards? Hmmm,interesting!
I actually just got a call from a buddy on here 2 seconds ago. He said this is Rick George out of Texas. He is getting a boat built by Dan Ellison right now and is putting a Monty V-8 on it. This is a separate deal from mine, but I don't mind a little competition. I wish anyone trying this lots of luck and to be careful.

[TMc]

Instigator that might be the V-8 you posted the pics of.

[Hot Shot Merc]

I actually just got a call from a buddy on here 2 seconds ago. He said this is Rick George out of Texas. He is getting a boat built by Dan Ellison right now and is putting a Monty V-8 on it. This is a separate deal from mine, but I don't mind a little competition. I wish anyone trying this lots of luck and to be careful. Interesting!!! Well there ya go you should try it with a Merc now for sure:cheers: Surprised Dan didnt inform you of this

[patchesII]

I don't care what power they use, I think it's cool that there are two different teams currently working on setting a new record

[afr]

I actually just got a call from a buddy on here 2 seconds ago. He said this is Rick George out of Texas. He is getting a boat built by Dan Ellison right now and is putting a Monty V-8 on it. This is a separate deal from mine, but I don't mind a little competition. I wish anyone trying this lots of luck and to be careful.
theirs been a lot a people kicking this around for a good long while

[CLIMAX]

Thanks guys, I am sure monty will chime in the top bearing is an all new piece he just tooled

[CLIMAX]

Yes that was motor number one. And no just a single

[CLIMAX]

Thanks Guys, Takes a whole lot to play in this game.Thanks Todd for the words. Lets just have fun

[Hot Shot Merc]

Thanks guys, I am sure monty will chime in the top bearing is an all new piece he just tooledI doubt that Gordan (Monty) will post much if anything at all. He like most of the top boat/Motor builders dont say much on here. They let their work speak for itself;) I have no doubt His engines will make this happen if its possible. Still say it would be awsome to have both Merc and OMC show what they can do:)

[CLIMAX]

Thanks I do understand, Same reason I do not get on. Most of my good friends are at the top with merc. And yes as Todd knows it is a legal thing. Break the record everyone is safe ect. Then we will come aboard. Too little too late. I have deigned an built since 1976 and this is most likely my last post. Thanks

[Instigator]

I have pictures of the billet upper carrier (and the motor going to Tx ;) ) so those issue appears to have been solved. Don't think I'm allowed to post them though or I will be exterminated.
Monty does not post on here. He has zero patience for games.
Last time at his shop, he told me they were making 75 HP's per hole, reliably, w/no juice.
So...., 6 x 75 = 450. or better yet, 8 x 75 = 600. Now add the blue bottle.
I think it's safe to assume these are very conservative #'s based on the several yr old video on youtube of the bass boat OMC V-6 Dave B. had on the dyno @ 450+ HP's on pump gas ;)
Rumors were his Pro Gas motor was making 573 on the same dyno. Again, no juice.

It appears that there are at least a couple of OMC guys w/their act together that chose (not) to read/ignore the banter (and not post) and know what they know ;)

Tim, not sure what you meant?

[Hot Shot Merc]

Does Gordan have a dyno?

[Spectre Powerboats]

Gordan told me he does not have a dyno, but has used someone's dyno for testing the V-6's on, so this is where they came up with the 75 hp per hole for the V-8. Also, I have been under the assumption that the next boat Dan was building was for 1/4 mile use only, not kilo's. I was to get the next boat, but it was put off so Rick George could get his together. Now that Rick has announced he is attempting the kilo, my team and I are sitting here debating whether to delete this thread and everything we do stays in house for fear of our work being copied. This also is a game changer and I am not sure how to handle it. We really wanted to post the start to finish of this project, but now this has turned into a competition, I don't think it is something we should be sharing with the competitor. I don't know.

[Hot Shot Merc]

Gordan told me he does not have a dyno, but has used someone's dyno for testing the V-6's on, so this is where they came up with the 75 hp per hole for the V-8. Also, I have been under the assumption that the next boat Dan was building was for 1/4 mile use only, not kilo's. I was to get the next boat, but it was put off so Rick George could get his together. Now that Rick has announced he is attempting the kilo, my team and I are sitting here debating whether to delete this thread and everything we do stays in house for fear of our work being copied. This also is a game changer and I am not sure how to handle it. We really wanted to post the start to finish of this project, but now this has turned into a competition, I don't think it is something we should be sharing with the competitor. I don't know.I can respect and totaly understand your dilema. I would be pissed if I were you too. Your openness and willingness to share this with us is awsome. I think its a shame Dan has put you off and lied to you like this about your boat and the one hes doing for Rick. Be careful what you say and maybe you could keep the thread up. I know for a fact youve already gained tons of fans and support through this thread and your efforts. I wish you all the best of luck and I hope you beat them to the punch. Dont rush but after this new situation im rooting for you. I dont like that sneaky schit!

[Instigator]

We really wanted to post the start to finish of this project, but now this has turned into a competition, I don't think it is something we should be sharing with the competitor. I don't know.
Wow. Hate reading this. Have say I can sure understand though.
Thing of it is, more than one team per class goes to Bonneville for Speed Weeks every year ;)

[Adam McKeon]

This also is a game changer and I am not sure how to handle it. We really wanted to post the start to finish of this project, but now this has turned into a competition, I don't think it is something we should be sharing with the competitor. I don't know.
F*** it! Charge after it - the both of you! Having second thoughts is the same as having doubt. No room for that. One of you will inevitably get there first, the question is " Does the bar get set?" or " Does someone go from hero to zero " in the blink of an eye?
What better than two different camps trying to go after the same goal. Carry on

[Hot Shot Merc]

Thing of it is, more than one team per class goes to Bonneville for Speed Weeks every year ;)I agree however they dont post on the internet all of what they are doing to build the record holding entry;)

[Instigator]

I agree however they dont post on the internet all of what they are doing to build the record holding entry;)
Agree w/what your saying but some of them do. Hot Rod magazine does a "Drag Week" contest and the guys go on line and talk **** all the way through.
The idea of his boat builder pulling his leg about what he was doing though........, and learning of another team in process........., and (as you say) reading all of his plans on here......, might be a tough one to get past for me.
Hate to see aerotech stop posting his views but sure understand if he does.

Wait, did we just agree Rob ? ;)

[Spectre Powerboats]

F*** it! Charge after it - the both of you! Having second thoughts is the same as having doubt. No room for that. One of you will inevitably get there first, the question is " Does the bar get set?" or " Does someone go from hero to zero " in the blink of an eye?
What better than two different camps trying to go after the same goal. Carry on
We won't be stopping that is for sure. Just might be tightening up on how much info and pics we release. I have everything to put this boat together other than the rudder. I have power if I need to rush things along quicker, but won't be crediting the OEM for it. I have built a custom engine cowl and will not give any recognition to any of the engine manufactures unless they help. Probably leak it to you guys for bragging purposes. Still looking for good motors though. I know I am going to need an arsenal of them.

[Adam McKeon]

We won't be stopping that is for sure. Just might be tightening up on how much info and pics we release. I have everything to put this boat together other than the rudder. I have power if I need to rush things along quicker, but won't be crediting the OEM for it. I have built a custom engine cowl and will not give any recognition to any of the engine manufactures unless they help. Probably leak it to you guys for bragging purposes. Still looking for good motors though. I know I am going to need an arsenal of them.
Yes sir! There you go!!!!!!!

[Hot Shot Merc]

Wait, did we just agree Rob ? ;) Gary we agree about a lot of things. Probably more than you realize:cheers:

[Spectre Powerboats]

Hey, maybe one of you can help me out. I have a new style 12" Champ midsection. I have only one and I do not want to use it on this boat unless. I need it for a F1 boat project. If anyone out there can help me locate a true, not cut down Mercury 12" mid, I would really appreciate it.

[afr]

Hey, maybe one of you can help me out. I have a new style 12" Champ midsection. I have only one and I do not want to use it on this boat unless. I need it for a F1 boat project. If anyone out there can help me locate a true, not cut down Mercury 12" mid, I would really appreciate it.
i would want a factory brand new one myself and i would maybe even still xray that bad boy to boot i know of a few ill pass on the info that your looking

[powerabout]

just tell em you have the Chrysler V6 at 450hp ( been a secret project for 20 years) and you have GG V8 lower and his 200mph props to test with or a 9/8th scaled up V6 Merc thats 490hp
and it was built in the Best damn Garage in Town

[olboatman]

I could understand if aerotech pulled the plug--- But I would be disapointed to loose this extremely informative and entertaining thread! Just my .02.Gary

[CptAJ]

Woah, the thing about the boat really sucked. Some people have no integrity.

The cool thing is that we might get to see the record broken twice in the same year after all this time. Aerotech has some strategizing to do... go fast to beat them to the punch or go hard to beat them to the larger record. Things just got very interesting. Maybe continue with the merc fast-build and develop the OMC on the back burner just in case?

Have you guys heard of indiegogo? I'd contribute a few bucks to crowdfund this project. I'm not sure how far we'd get since its not very mainstream though...

I'm really bummed out about losing all the juicy details in this thread. Make sure you write it all down and release it later!

[Spectre Powerboats]

Just to clear the air a little bit. Dan and I have had talk about the second boat during when the first one was being built. After some of the potential sponsors bailing out, I was not sure if I was going to do a second boat. Dan called me and said he had a guy named Rick George wanting an outboard outrigger to do some drag racing with. I told him to go ahead, because this would give me some breathing room financially, so I would take the 3rd one. I talked to Rick George on the phone, very nice gentleman and he explained his history and wanting to go after the 1/4 mile record. We also discussed a possibility with helping our kilo attempt since he was getting a few of Monty's V-8's. This was back in June this year. Since then Rick and I have traded a few emails and until his post was placed on S&F, I did not know he wanted to do the kilo with his own boat. Dan told me he did not know this either and I believe him. Dan is a boat builder and his job is to build boats. I look at it this way, if it took someone like me to get the kilo record stirred up and people off their butts to go after this record, I have already accomplished a lot. Whether the record falls to anyone of us, we all should be proud for trying to keep the outboards alive and mind boggle the inboard guys with the speeds we can reach. Lets keep this forum on a positive note and I will keep posting. If people want to steal my ideas, I'm ok with it. Dan is a good guy and should be applauded for his boat building skills. Thanks everyone and keep feeding me info. I have learned so much from this thread so keep it coming.

[300x Stoker]

I read about a Richard George XCat driver, probably not the same guy? What has he been designing and building since 1976?

Best of luck to everyone.

[BarryStrawn]

If you posted any secrets here, it isn't a secret and can't be stolen.

[lokinutz]

Aerotech, That would be one of the best posts I have read on this site. Keep up the hard work and positive attitude. It will pay off. Go get that record!

[rock]

I agree. Appreciate the attitude. Good luck.

Rock

[olboatman]

I agree with CptAJ-- If your in need for some funding --Please post it! It couldn't hurt. More people may want to be involved than one may think. Good luck Gary

[Da Bull]

I agree with asking for help by public funding but i`m also reminded of the land speed record attempt team that basickly put wheels on an old F-104 Air Force fighter get several years ago and did it with donations from lots of people. They never made an attempt at the record tho.

Leason to be learned here is simple. Collect money from people wanting to see you break the record then at least make an attempt at it in a reasonable amount of time. From keeping up with this thread from the beginning i belive aerotech is very serious and if he asks for pledges i will donate what i can.

DB

[Donat]

I agree with asking for help by public funding but i`m also reminded of the land speed record attempt team that basickly put wheels on an old F-104 Air Force fighter get several years ago and did it with donations from lots of people. They never made an attempt at the record tho.

i will donate what i can.

DB

I will as well and thanks for choosing Scream and Fly and sharing with us. This site is one big outboard family no matter what u choose for power u got my support and probably many others...(please do it with Merc :) )

[Spectre Powerboats]

I am so proud to make this announcement. At 9 am this morning Jon Wright's wife Gina and I agreed on the purchase of the whole Jon and Gina Wright Doo Dad Racing Team. This includes the 1/4 mile world record holding Gary Pugh built hydro "Tinker Toy", the enclosed trailer, all Wright's devices, all motors, midsections, gearcases and tooling. We are so happy to get this great torch passed to us and look forward to making Jon and Gina proud. I also want to Thank Rodney Nance for all of his help in making this possible. Thank you Jon, Gina and Rodney. Your friend Todd

[CDave]

I am so proud to make this announcement. At 9 am this morning Jon Wright's wife Gina and I agreed on the purchase of the whole Jon and Gina Wright Doo Dad Racing Team. This includes the 1/4 mile world record holding Gary Pugh built hydro "Tinker Toy", the enclosed trailer, all Wright's devices, all motors, midsections, gearcases and tooling. We are so happy to get this great torch passed to us and look forward to making Jon and Gina proud. I also want to Thank Rodney Nance for all of his help in making this possible. Thank you Jon, Gina and Rodney. Your friend Todd

WOW, you just hit the jackpot! I'd say you have made a move in the right direction for power.
It's good to see his equipment isn't going to just collect dust somewhere.
Although, IMO, Tinker Toy should be in a museum some day or at least be preserved.

[kimswang]

I am so proud to make this announcement. At 9 am this morning Jon Wright's wife Gina and I agreed on the purchase of the whole Jon and Gina Wright Doo Dad Racing Team. This includes the 1/4 mile world record holding Gary Pugh built hydro "Tinker Toy", the enclosed trailer, all Wright's devices, all motors, midsections, gearcases and tooling. We are so happy to get this great torch passed to us and look forward to making Jon and Gina proud. I also want to Thank Rodney Nance for all of his help in making this possible. Thank you Jon, Gina and Rodney. Your friend Todd

How cool, that outta give you a head start. Please keep us posted regarding time and place for the attempt as I will be one of the guys on the sideline with a camera......

[MODVP22]

I am so proud to make this announcement. At 9 am this morning Jon Wright's wife Gina and I agreed on the purchase of the whole Jon and Gina Wright Doo Dad Racing Team. This includes the 1/4 mile world record holding Gary Pugh built hydro "Tinker Toy", the enclosed trailer, all Wright's devices, all motors, midsections, gearcases and tooling. We are so happy to get this great torch passed to us and look forward to making Jon and Gina proud. I also want to Thank Rodney Nance for all of his help in making this possible. Thank you Jon, Gina and Rodney. Your friend Todd

Great news! I bet Jon is smiling down

[afr]

I am so proud to make this announcement. At 9 am this morning Jon Wright's wife Gina and I agreed on the purchase of the whole Jon and Gina Wright Doo Dad Racing Team. This includes the 1/4 mile world record holding Gary Pugh built hydro "Tinker Toy", the enclosed trailer, all Wright's devices, all motors, midsections, gearcases and tooling. We are so happy to get this great torch passed to us and look forward to making Jon and Gina proud. I also want to Thank Rodney Nance for all of his help in making this possible. Thank you Jon, Gina and Rodney. Your friend Todd
cool deal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Hot Shot Merc]

I am so proud to make this announcement. At 9 am this morning Jon Wright's wife Gina and I agreed on the purchase of the whole Jon and Gina Wright Doo Dad Racing Team. This includes the 1/4 mile world record holding Gary Pugh built hydro "Tinker Toy", the enclosed trailer, all Wright's devices, all motors, midsections, gearcases and tooling. We are so happy to get this great torch passed to us and look forward to making Jon and Gina proud. I also want to Thank Rodney Nance for all of his help in making this possible. Thank you Jon, Gina and Rodney. Your friend ToddGreat news!

[CLIMAX]

Brother Todd, That is fantastic.Not only to keep the dream alive but we can have so much fun.I am very happy for you. And show them outboards are still alive. Put a smile on my face, I really do think as I told you, paired up exhibition runs should be in the future.Lets put on a show

[Instigator]

I bet Jon is smiling down
You know that. Well said Tommy.

Jon at the Rumble w/the "Jon"Rude on Tinker Toy. Have videos of these runs and I promised Rodney I'd scare them up.
Maybe Rodney can chime in here but I know these are some very early passes w/this motor and every pass Jon leaned harder and harder on the button. Rodney, you were telling me you guys saw some insane speeds there??

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/jonattherumble.jpg (http://s290.photobucket.com/user/Instigatorspixs/media/jonattherumble.jpg.html)

An example of something that could only come from the mind of "MR" Wright.
Congrats Aerotech and here is how you think outside the box.
I forgot I had this shot. I think this is a block I sold Jon but w/goodies screwed to it I never even thought of.
To me, here's what a motor looks like w/no rule book involved and a brilliant mind in the shop. Love this shot!!
That is mechanical fuel injection from an airplane and an intake spacer made from wood among other things.
Check out the mid ;) Pretty? Why :cool:
If you look close, you can see the steering cables going to the rudder too.
Rodney, this ones for you my Brother.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/JonRude_zpsdbc7fd96.jpg (http://s290.photobucket.com/user/Instigatorspixs/media/JonRude_zpsdbc7fd96.jpg.html)

[CptAJ]

http://www.powercatboat.com/ODBR/TinkerToy/2001_JW.html

I am in awe... :eek:

[mackeral5]

There you have it......even Mr Wright ran yammie ignition on a loper. If that doesn't tell you looper guys something I don't know what will. Awesome pic, thx for sharing.

[engineermike]

I have to ask...if there aren't engine rules, them why not install individual expansion chambers? Production mx bikes are making over 55 hp (crank) from 250 cc singles. One time I saw a dyno test where the power fell in half when a straight pipe was installed instead of a chamber. And the yamaha gpr1300 made big gains just going from a shared expansion chamber to one/cylinder (triple pipe).

[jphii]

There you have it......even Mr Wright ran yammie ignition on a loper. If that doesn't tell you looper guys something I don't know what will. Awesome pic, thx for sharing.

You will never convince Gary to run it....

[Instigator]

I have to ask...if there aren't engine rules, them why not install individual expansion chambers? Production mx bikes are making over 55 hp (crank) from 250 cc singles. One time I saw a dyno test where the power fell in half when a straight pipe was installed instead of a chamber. And the yamaha gpr1300 made big gains just going from a shared expansion chamber to one/cylinder (triple pipe).
They are tuned for one power peak at one point in the rev range. They suck bellow and over that point. A bike has 6 gears and a clutch to keep it on the pipe. A boat has neither.
In the "Pro O/B" classes I ran one and they still do. They are built w/sliders though so they can adjust the "tuned length" under way.
That still only gives you about 1500 RPM of range and is OK on a 100 lb hull on an oval so you never bog the motor/boat bellow that.
On a drag boat, it needs to idle in gear at 1500 then pull cleanly to 10K.

Joe, soon as I need one......

[jphii]

Joe, soon as I need one......

See what I mean? :D:cheers:

[MODVP22]

http://www.powercatboat.com/ODBR/TinkerToy/2001_JW.html

I am in awe... :eek:

Brings a tear to my eye

[Rodney Nance]

Hey Gary Jon was the original Imagineer. That was a good 1st weekend out with the OMC. We had a GPS strapped down in the boat but it didn't work but Jon thought that was as fast as he had ever been. Thanks for the pic it made me smile. I am glad Todd is buying Jons stuff as he has already owned one of Jons hydros and had a "Wright Device". This could get interesting!

[Frank Molé]

http://www.powercatboat.com/ODBR/TinkerToy/2001_JW.html

I am in awe... :eek:

so cool,wow.....................

[powerabout]

http://www.powercatboat.com/ODBR/TinkerToy/2001_JW.html

I am in awe... :eek:
Is that a step up box or a two speed?

[RBT]

Lenco 2 speed

[engineermike]

They are tuned for one power peak at one point in the rev range. They suck bellow and over that point. A bike has 6 gears and a clutch to keep it on the pipe. A boat has neither.
In the "Pro O/B" classes I ran one and they still do. They are built w/sliders though so they can adjust the "tuned length" under way.
That still only gives you about 1500 RPM of range and is OK on a 100 lb hull on an oval so you never bog the motor/boat bellow that.
On a drag boat, it needs to idle in gear at 1500 then pull cleanly to 10K.

Joe, soon as I need one......

The more recent engines have come a long way to improve that problem. I just took a quick look and a modern 250 2-cycle mx bike has about a 30% linear torque rise from 5000 to 7500 rpm, and makes good power past 9500. You can also modify the pipe taper to trade peak power for rpm range.

[jphii]

The more recent engines have come a long way to improve that problem. I just took a quick look and a modern 250 mx bike has about a 30% linear torque rise from 5000 to 7500 rpm, and makes good power past 9500. You can also modify the taper angles to trade peak power for rpm range.
Uh....

[CDave]

You know that. Well said Tommy.

Jon at the Rumble w/the "Jon"Rude on Tinker Toy. Have videos of these runs and I promised Rodney I'd scare them up.
Maybe Rodney can chime in here but I know these are some very early passes w/this motor and every pass Jon leaned harder and harder on the button. Rodney, you were telling me you guys saw some insane speeds there??

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/jonattherumble.jpg (http://s290.photobucket.com/user/Instigatorspixs/media/jonattherumble.jpg.html)

An example of something that could only come from the mind of "MR" Wright.
Congrats Aerotech and here is how you think outside the box.
I forgot I had this shot. I think this is a block I sold Jon but w/goodies screwed to it I never even thought of.
To me, here's what a motor looks like w/no rule book involved and a brilliant mind in the shop. Love this shot!!
That is mechanical fuel injection from an airplane and an intake spacer made from wood among other things.
Check out the mid ;) Pretty? Why :cool:
If you look close, you can see the steering cables going to the rudder too.
Rodney, this ones for you my Brother.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/JonRude_zpsdbc7fd96.jpg (http://s290.photobucket.com/user/Instigatorspixs/media/JonRude_zpsdbc7fd96.jpg.html)

That man had to be the Don Garlits of drag boat racing.

[Instigator]

The more recent engines have come a long way to improve that problem. I just took a quick look and a modern 250 2-cycle mx bike has about a 30% linear torque rise from 5000 to 7500 rpm, and makes good power past 9500. You can also modify the pipe taper to trade peak power for rpm range.
Search; "forumla for expansion chamber design". The #1 parameter for that formula is target RPM. So pick at which point, from 1500 RPM rolling start to 10K+ exit trap we use.
And I am aware of effect of pipe taper on performance. Actually, it all has an effect. Taper in, taper out, diameter, length of main pipe, of tapers, stinger length/diameter, head pipe length/diameter all has an effect.
There are formulas to use as a guide but until you build one and field test it, we don't know true benefit. Now build six at a time or three sets of two.

It has been done before but never worked in a drag application from what I've seen. Now aerotechs application on the other hand....... ;)

When I was racing, the "Pro" guys used to tell me 20 - 25% improvement on motors like this. Of course they have such little low end power, the crew has to pick the thing up (prop out of water) to start it.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/buttsoutriggerfront1985_zpsc66ec773.jpg (http://s290.photobucket.com/user/Instigatorspixs/media/buttsoutriggerfront1985_zpsc66ec773.jpg.html)

[engineermike]

I thought we were talking purpose-built all-out top speed.

[Scream And Fly]

http://www.powercatboat.com/ODBR/TinkerToy/2001_JW.html

I am in awe... :eek:

That is great. I have many other photos of that very cool boat on my backup drive. I think I should have a look at what I have and post some. Very cool.

Greg

[Instigator]

That is great. I have many other photos of that very cool boat on my backup drive. I think I should have a look at what I have and post some. Very cool.

Greg
I was going to send you a message Greg and see what you had from the weekend. I looked for the videos last night and did not find them.
They may still be on a tape w/the camera.

[MODVP22]

That is great. I have many other photos of that very cool boat on my backup drive. I think I should have a look at what I have and post some. Very cool.

Greg

You and I got to watch Jon launch from the start barge at the Rumble on the River in 2003. Talk about a front row seat! Even if it was an exhibition pass :D:thumbsup::cool:

[Mr. Demeanor]

Just wanted to say (and I probably speak some for others around here) that as a relative newbie to the sport, the site, the lifstyle, etc. this has been a great read. Please continue to openly share as much as your comfortable with.

[olboatman]

:iagree:
Just wanted to say (and I probably speak some for others around here) that as a relative newbie to the sport, the site, the lifstyle, etc. this has been a great read. Please continue to openly share as much as your comfortable with.

[1FASTLASER]

:cheers:Very well said Mr D.

[phragle]

If your going with pipes, your entering another realm from standard outboard tuning. You might want to check in with the guys from macdizzy.com There are some guys there that a SERIOUS 2 stroke freaks, pipe designs etc.

[1FASTLASER]

If your going with pipes, your entering another realm from standard outboard tuning. You might want to check in with the guys from macdizzy.com There are some guys there that a SERIOUS 2 stroke freaks, pipe designs etc.
Thanks for sharing. Lots of useful info there!!!!!!!

[olboatman]

If your going with pipes, your entering another realm from standard outboard tuning. You might want to check in with the guys from macdizzy.com There are some guys there that a SERIOUS 2 stroke freaks, pipe designs etc.

:iagree:1FASTLASER is rite on! Exellent site with useful info. Thanks also. Gary:thumbsup:

[Hot Shot Merc]

If your going with pipes, your entering another realm from standard outboard tuning. You might want to check in with the guys from macdizzy.com There are some guys there that a SERIOUS 2 stroke freaks, pipe designs etc.I think the whole "Pipes" thing was a derailment on the thread. I dont see a stacker as part of this project. Maybe im wrong!

[olboatman]

Hot Shot Merc I see your point but that site has a LOT more good performance info than just pipes. Just my .02 Gary

[Spectre Powerboats]

No pipes here. I have a couple complete S3000's before I bought Jon and Gina Wright's equipment. I also purchased Evinrude V8's to have in the arsenal. With the addition of Jon's equipment we now have an exciting batch of motor options. We plan on using NOS on some of the motors, Jon's turbo motor and we want to try and put a Whipple supercharger on one. I have good knowledge of NOS and supercharging, but the turbo will be pretty new to us, but lucky for me I have some big turbo guys in my area to help, plus I figure there are a few people on here that will be willing to help. I can not get pictures to post to S&F from my computer. Any help would be appreciated on uploading pics.

[Da Bull]

I don`t know jack #%&* about expantion pipes and even less about two strokes with turbo`s but i`m excited to see someone willing to attempt the turbo deal. Did Mr Wright get the turbo to work?I`ve read about all of the threads disscussing them but no actual testing. I even heard about some sand drag buggie with a two stroke/turbo package but no info. I spotted a Merc powerhead with a 6-71 blower sitting on the floor in Wayne Taylors shop several years ago and asked him how it did. He said it was a wast of time. Said it hit hard for about one second untill the boost depleted because of open ports and then it became a normal motor. He said the blower people told him that it could not ever produce enough boost no matter how much he over drove it. Maybe turbo`s can be made to work. I`m optimistic.

DB

[Spectre Powerboats]

http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/19.jpg

[Spectre Powerboats]

http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/21.jpg

[Spectre Powerboats]

http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/029.jpg http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/019.jpg

[Rodney Nance]

Aw **** here we go!

[Warby Motorsport]

So has anyone thought about how they are going to address the cockpit rules for a boat running a speed of over 150MPH on a kilo run???.... you are chasing an outboard record held by the guy who has just changed the rules to make it impossible for a cockpit to be passed for a kilo run of over a speed of 150 MPH

KW spelt out the new UIM rules... in this thread.....he too is an engineer ..We at Warby Motorsport and other unlimited water speed record challengers now believe this is a complete farce.... what engineer in the right mind will sign off that that list of crap??... a well-respected engineer from Britain just wrote a paper spelling it out that these rules are completely untenable

We have been looking into these new rules and now have some more info on howthe UIM "Safety committee" work..........and is led by Bob Wartinger,These rules apply to boats with a class speed over 150 MPH at a kilo event, so one boat on the water at a time, ...... when questioned on if this rule applies to boats that travel over 150 MPH ( class speed) in a circuit race, where thereis up to 10 boats running side by side at over 150 MPH, with water conditions changing every lap, the "Safety committee leader" said that basically they didn't discuss that......???????...... Now this is all in the name of"safety" for the sport, and these guys didn't consider this aspect of racing!!!!..... this is an absolute farce....and this proves it,... remember this is the "Safety guy" of the sport’s world governing body

so why wasn't the part of circuit racing considered??...... well to protect their event promoter's firstly, as this would take a huge amount of boats offthe water, as none would meet the new rules, so what business would a promoter get with no boats at a UIM event. Plus these rules would upset a huge amount of racers who race circuits, only a minor amount ever do kilo's, But it would appear you can run as the rules are now at over 150 MPH with 9 other guys next to you at the same speed, but.....BUT you will need a newly engineered cockpit to do the same thing if you intend to run alone ( solo) for a kilo run on good water, this cockpit needs to be sent in for engineering analysis from a multitude of potential crash angles, and has to be predicable in the way it crashes

This "safety guy" still has not made any official notification to any wwsr challenger.....so we are building away and spending time and money to set a new wwsr, building to the rules, and the "safety" guy has a brain snap on the rules, puts them thru without contacting the people it immediately affects, who are spending away thinking all is well...

Now we and other challengers have spoken to this guy on the phone, and get hours of beautifully worded motivational speak (as this is his job to go worldwide to give motivational speeches to businesses and on safety) but he fails to answer some very simple questions regarding the rules,.... How can this guy hold a position on a sports world governing body with the actions stated above??......basic skills such as communication... consultation, etc and is happy to waste other peoples time and money,

We have had some correspondence from some very well respected engineers in both record breaking, aerospace and legendary boat builders from the world powerboating who believe these new rules for both the wsr and kilo boats that run over 150 MPH are completely nuts !!!!... and are wondering why this"safety guy" is doing this...hmmmmm

Motorsportsis dangerous, we all know that, but we have built a cockpit that is aregistered UIM approved cockpit ( Warby Motorsport is an approved cockpit manufacturer) the current rules states the shell must handle a 3000nm impact and tested accordingly, ours was built and tested to take a 5000nm impact, so we are not taking any short cuts in the area of safety … but when goal posts grow legs overnight and move you have to wonder what their REAL motive is….<o:p

Remember... KW's last wsr boat was banned due to cockpit rule changes over night back in 2004..... and 6 months before the UIM meeting.......

sadly the UIM doesn’t have the decency to consult the guy who has designed, built and driven a boat at speeds over 300 MPH on water,current water speed record holder etc plus holds 2 UIM gold medals….. ( only he and rules guy Wartinger have ever received 2), they just love wasting his time and money again and again



</o
Dave

Warby Motorsport

[Instigator]

Wow. Very interesting Dave. Thanks for the insight and I feel terrible for the frustration for you and the old man.


On the subject of force fed two strokes, lets not forget Rick Gillmans blown (GM 6-71) V-8 JohnRude of 10 or so yrs ago.

[engineermike]

I don't see how a supercharged 2 stroke could ever work, unless the port timing was drastically and unconventionally modified. With the exhaust port being the last thing to close, there's no way to trap the boost. Expansion chambers, though, are well understood, tested, been around for decades, and offer a huge gain in power without a lot of complication.

[Spectre Powerboats]

I don't see how a supercharged 2 stroke could ever work, unless the port timing was drastically and unconventionally modified. With the exhaust port being the last thing to close, there's no way to trap the boost. Expansion chambers, though, are well understood, tested, been around for decades, and offer a huge gain in power without a lot of complication.

The thought would be overdriving the Whipple a ridiculous amount, a two speed on the Whipple (this has been done before), a custom intake cooler and intake that would be preloaded with a certain psi through out the run, lots of dyno time. Sound good on paper :smiletest:, but this is the basic thought. Have not even started this project yet. The NOS motors are the main focus, the turbo second and the Whipple third. Whether it is a Mercury, a V-6 or V-8 Evinrude, it will have a power adder from day one.

[Instigator]

I don't see how a supercharged 2 stroke could ever work, unless the port timing was drastically and unconventionally modified. With the exhaust port being the last thing to close, there's no way to trap the boost. Expansion chambers, though, are well understood, tested, been around for decades, and offer a huge gain in power without a lot of complication.
100% agreed and every example (that I know of) to date has proven this.

[Ray Neudecker]

Bob Thompson of Just Add Water fame proved it could be done over 40 years ago with V-4 and later V-6 OMC's.

[Hoss Marine Propellers]

I don't see how a supercharged 2 stroke could ever work, unless the port timing was drastically and unconventionally modified. With the exhaust port being the last thing to close, there's no way to trap the boost. Expansion chambers, though, are well understood, tested, been around for decades, and offer a huge gain in power without a lot of complication.


100% agreed and every example (that I know of) to date has proven this.

If you can not trap the boost, then why does a turbocharger seem to work? Isn't it the same concept of forcing more air/fuel into the combustion chamber than could normally be drawn thru the engine? Mechanical force with blower or exhaust force with turbo ?

http://www.screamandfly.com/entry.php?926-Boat-with-Turbocharger

[pyro]

If you wrap those photobucket links in bracketed IMG tags, it will insert the image into your posts, like this:

http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/19.jpg

http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/21.jpg

http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/029.jpg

http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/019.jpg

[Hoss Marine Propellers]

http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/019.jpg

This picture looks like a toy floating in the bathtub! :eek: :D

[engineermike]

If you can not trap the boost, then why does a turbocharger seem to work? Isn't it the same concept of forcing more air/fuel into the combustion chamber than could normally be drawn thru the engine? Mechanical force with blower or exhaust force with turbo ?

http://www.screamandfly.com/entry.php?926-Boat-with-Turbocharger

Theres a fundamental difference. The turbocharger adds exhaust pressure with boost. The exhaust pressure prevents the air/fuel from exiting the cylinder once the intake port closes.

[Spectre Powerboats]

With the new technology from Whipple and PSI screw blowers, I believe it will work. I ran a highly modified 14-71 roots blower on my funny car and on its best day we saw 52 psi and on average 48 psi. With a PSI we saw the 62-64 psi consistently and could have seen more, but with NHRA's overdrive rules we had to stay within. I like the screw blowers, because of the very low friction to turn them and the low maintenance.

[Instigator]

Bob Thompson of Just Add Water fame proved it could be done over 40 years ago with V-4 and later V-6 OMC's.
I stand corrected. Thanks Ray.
BTW, over 40 yrs ago, I was just over 10 yrs old ;)

Also, got to thinking about my last reply and realized I was starting to sound like the guy saying it can't be done :eek:

What I meant to say was, I DARE YOU ;)

Todd............, 62 PSI ??? :eek::reddevil::cool::thumbsup:

[engineermike]

With the new technology from Whipple and PSI screw blowers, I believe it will work. I ran a highly modified 14-71 roots blower on my funny car and on its best day we saw 52 psi and on average 48 psi. With a PSI we saw the 62-64 psi consistently and could have seen more, but with NHRA's overdrive rules we had to stay within. I like the screw blowers, because of the very low friction to turn them and the low maintenance.

You can install a massive blower and spin the heck out of it, but the problem is that there are some overriding physics involved that make for some real issues. With typical port timing, intake and exhaust ports are open at the same time, which creates am open path to atmosphere. Even if you manage to compress enough air to build up some small amount of pressure, you're now wasting a lot of hp needlessly spinning the supercharger that's pumping air straight to atmoshere. And once the intake ports close, the exhaust port is still hanging wide open, thus relieving whatever pressure you might have built straight out the exhaust.

I'm not saying it can't work, just that you have to rethink how a 2 cycle works and make some drastic and fundamental changes to it. Expansion chambers, though, are highly popular, proven, and do not require re-engineering the way a 2 cycle engine operates.

[Capt.Insane-o]

Oh no.. not the blower on the two stroke again.. lol! Turbo's work, a supercharger will not. If bolting a supercharger on a conventional two stroke actually worked, every other outboard on this website would have one. By the time all the "boost" blows right out the exhaust ports along with the parasitic loss of the supercharger you've gone nowhere. It sure will look cool though, and you can tell every moron that corners you at the gas station it has a huge cam in it too. :)

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[Hoss Marine Propellers]

Theres a fundamental difference. The turbocharger adds exhaust pressure with boost. The exhaust pressure prevents the air/fuel from exiting the cylinder once the intake port closes.


You can install a massive blower and spin the heck out of it, but the problem is that there are some overriding physics involved that make for some real issues. With typical port timing, intake and exhaust ports are open at the same time, which creates am open path to atmosphere. Even if you manage to compress enough air to build up some small amount of pressure, you're now wasting a lot of hp needlessly spinning the supercharger that's pumping air straight to atmoshere. And once the intake ports close, the exhaust port is still hanging wide open, thus relieving whatever pressure you might have built straight out the exhaust.

I'm not saying it can't work, just that you have to rethink how a 2 cycle works and make some drastic and fundamental changes to it. Expansion chambers, though, are highly popular, proven, and do not require re-engineering the way a 2 cycle engine operates.

Very good discussion on the differences......
I can see the Turbo explanation ....... pressure rises on both sides of the piston & porting.
Also the blower explanation ..... loosing pressure out the exhaust into a normal atmosphere. i.e. loosing potential hp!!!

Thanks for the clarification.

[Hoss Marine Propellers]

Oh no.. not the blower on the two stroke again.. lol! Turbo's work, a supercharger will not. If bolting a supercharger on a conventional two stroke actually worked, every other outboard on this website would have one. By the time all the "boost" blows right out the exhaust ports along with the parasitic loss of the supercharger you've gone nowhere. It sure will look cool though, and you can tell every moron that corners you at the gas station it has a huge cam in it too. :)

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GREAT photos ..... especially the last one !!!! :nonod:

[Instigator]

Everything I've hear or read, agrees w/Mike. Exhaust port is partially open for a ton of the crank rotation and there goes your boost.

On the chamber side, you will have a narrow RPM target for your project and IMO, the perfect application for a set of properly design chambers. (not megaphones or open pipes)

[oldschoolltv]

Bubble back turbo, nice.

[perfmarine1]

Why couldn't you use a blower system and have it inject air and gas in through the head when the ports are closed. Computer , crank sensor and injectors all you would need. The technology is already there DI, Heck the opties already have the compressor.

[Hoss Marine Propellers]

Here's a poor pic of the 2nd generation turbo project ........ Mechanical fuel injection on methanol.

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b598/Hossprops/Other%20Boat%20Pics/turbo_zps06959317.jpg (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/Hossprops/media/Other%20Boat%20Pics/turbo_zps06959317.jpg.html)

[powerabout]

what we need is a giant Opti injecter ( for the extra air)and all the boost goes in after the ports close with the fuel
It would most likely need to be a high pressure pump to get the air in fast enough but for sure it wont be lost out a port

[Capt.Insane-o]

GREAT photos ..... especially the last one !!!! :nonod:


Yea I got a chuckle out of that :). No way it's ever going to happen the DI way either.

[CNC_Guy]

I saw a motor once that used a rotating tube as a rotary valve. It ran parallel to the crank and was run off the crank with a toothed belt. It had slots cut for ports and lapidary seals between cylinders. It was a blown 2 stroke.

[Hoss Marine Propellers]

It's getting exciting with the purchase of Jon's stuff, the availability of S3000 & OMC big cubic inch motors.
To me, it seems like the correct boat/boats have been purchased with appropriate motors for a serious attempt at the record.

It looks like it's going to take some serious horsepower to get over 200 mph!!!!
It would be cool if it could be done on a naturally aspirated outboard?
I guess once the boat makes it's maiden voyage and sets some basic numbers, then we'll all have some idea what kind of power it's going to take to hit 200+.

[powerabout]

:). No way it's ever going to happen the DI way either.
or with a separate injector?
how much air to make 500hp?
56psi makes that a 1/4 of the original volume etc..

[Adam McKeon]

Sell every motor/project you have ( Except the S3000 ), use the funds for a Hartley V8, 420++ reliable hp at 10k+ rpm.. And if it's not enough, you can turbo it EASILY to produce as much HP as you need. Or at least you would hope so. At a minimum I would look into it if you have not already done so... It's never too late. Embrace new technology

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/SOyb04FVxhs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[engineermike]

Injecting air after the exhaust port closes fixes the main problem, but will create some other "challenges". You have an extremely short window of opportunity to inject air, like a maximum of 30 deg of crank rotation before compression starts building up too much pressure to overcome. It would take a lot of pressure to get any meaningful amount of air into the cylinder through some sort of specially-designed fast-acting valve in the amount of time allotted. A lot of pressure means a specialized supercharger and a lot of heat, so some abnormally large intercooler would be required. Then you would need some sort of high speed direct-injection-like computer to control the air valves/injectors to get the timing just right.

[Hoss Marine Propellers]

sell every motor/project you have ( except the s3000 ), use the funds for a hartley v8, 420++ reliable hp at 10k+ rpm.. And if it's not enough, you can turbo it easily to produce as much hp as you need. Or at least you would hope so. At a minimum i would look into it if you have not already done so... It's never too late. Embrace new technology

+1 ...... Wow!!!!

[powerabout]

Injecting air after the exhaust port closes fixes the main problem, but will create some other "challenges". You have an extremely short window of opportunity to inject air, like a maximum of 30 deg of crank rotation before compression starts building up too much pressure to overcome. It would take a lot of pressure to get any meaningful amount of air into the cylinder through some sort of specially-designed fast-acting valve in the amount of time allotted. A lot of pressure means a specialized supercharger and a lot of heat, so some abnormally large intercooler would be required. Then you would need some sort of high speed direct-injection-like computer to control the air valves/injectors to get the timing just right.
I agree thats the issue, but thinking you might need 200psi one to overcome the compression pressure and 2 to get it done quick enough

[engineermike]

I agree thats the issue, but thinking you might need 200psi one to overcome the compression pressure and 2 to get it done quick enough

Pressurizing ambient air to 200 psi will heat it to a minimum of 700 deg F. It will take a lot of power to drive the compressor and, as I said, a very large intercooler to adequately cool it.

Expansion chambers are much much simpler and would be at least as effective.

[Spectre Powerboats]

Ok guys. Got another task for everyone. Who makes a good outboard dyno or does anyone know where a good one for sale is? I would want one that is capable of 800 hp. No, I don't have an 800 hp or even close motor, but planning ahead. Thanks

[powerabout]

Ok guys. Got another task for everyone. Who makes a good outboard dyno or does anyone know where a good one for sale is? I would want one that is capable of 800 hp. No, I don't have an 800 hp or even close motor, but planning ahead. Thanks
its not the horsepower its the torque

[Adam McKeon]

Contact Land and Sea, they can get you set up and may have a line on a used package.

[olboatman]

Contact Land and Sea, they can get you set up and may have a line on a used package.
:iagree:We used one years ago to tune the Open Mod drag sled my company sponsered. Great piece of gear. Very user friendly. BTW we did not make 800hp! Gary:D

[Hot Shot Merc]

Here ya go. They do have marine dynos up to 800 hp

http://www.land-and-sea.com/prop-shaft-dyno/marine-dyno.htm

Brendon Powers in florida has one as well. Maybe he would be interested in doing some testing for you?

[Forkin' Crazy]

Sell every motor/project you have ( Except the S3000 ), use the funds for a Hartley V8, 420++ reliable hp at 10k+ rpm.. And if it's not enough, you can turbo it EASILY to produce as much HP as you need. Or at least you would hope so. At a minimum I would look into it if you have not already done so... It's never too late. Embrace new technology

<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/SOyb04FVxhs" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

Beat me to it. :D Just throw a turbo and intercooler on that bad boy and call it a day!!! ;)

[LongShot]

The supercharger discussion is interesting. I think it is all based on existing port timing. The port timing is the way it is to draw max amount of crankcase mix into the cylinder before compressing. Wastes alot of fuel but thats the way it is designed. Why not sleeve up a block lower, widen and Z port the exhaust. Close it sooner as you don't need the loop charge effect and put the blower on it. I have a 8/71 BDS on a Hemi and there is no substitute for simplicity and results. On the other hand, the less exotic the power is for the record run, the more successful the attempt will be. Nitrous is cool for 1/4 mile but over a kilo could get tricky on dose and supply.

[Rodney Nance]

I really want to see this record reset with a true outboard engine. That being said it's Todd that is spending the money to do it and I respect how ever he end's up doing it. Jon Wright being Jon got way pissed with the O/B manufacters and called Richard Childress and bought one of his full on Nascar long blocks. He was going to stand it on it's end on a midsection he built with his device for induction on a big hydro to reset the record. Reid and I told him we were out and that is as far as it got. Anybody here need a fresh Nascar engine?

[Spectre Powerboats]

Big weekend. Going to pick up "Tinker Toy" and the goodies. :cheers:

[Spectre Powerboats]

I think this is a good idea. Let's part ways here and now. Todd Lamb

[Hoss Marine Propellers]

I think this is a good idea. Let's part ways here and now. Todd Lamb

I don't understand ??????
Did someone delete a previous post and this is your reply ?
I hope it doesn't mean you're done posting about your attempt at 200 mph !!!!!!!

[Spectre Powerboats]

Yes, a previous post by Dan Ellison. We are going are way and he is going his.

[Hoss Marine Propellers]

Yes, a previous post by Dan Ellison. We are going are way and he is going his.

Sorry to hear this........
Are you still going for the record and also keep everyone informed of your progress?
I, for one, would hate to see this thread slowly get buried in the archives.

[Spectre Powerboats]

[QUOTE=Hoss Marine Propellers;2518810]Sorry to hear this........
Are you still going for the record and also keep everyone informed of your progress?
I for one would hate to see this thread slowing get buried in the archives.[/QUOTE
100% still going for the record. 100% will keep everyone posted. Just got to get through this weekend of getting Jon Wright's stuff back to Ohio, then I will get busy posting progress. Thanks

[Hoss Marine Propellers]

GOOD!!!!!!
My "little" heart skipped a beat !!!!!!
I think we're all living vicariously through your project...... That way, we can ALL run 200 mph in an outboard!!! :eek:
Good luck this weekend & be safe on the road.

[Hot Shot Merc]

Todd so does that mean you wont be useing that hydro pictured in the pool that Dan built now?

[Spectre Powerboats]

Todd so does that mean you wont be useing that hydro pictured in the pool that Dan built now?

I have the outrigger boat at my shop in Ohio now. To answer that question right now, I am not sure. We are down at Gina Wright's getting Jon's stuff first thing in the morning. We just got in our hotel and are so excited to get the work done by the professor.

[powerabout]

buy 2 different boats and a Merc and OMC and keep them all guessing

[Instigator]

We are down at Gina Wright's getting Jon's stuff first thing in the morning. We just got in our hotel and are so excited to get the work done by the professor.
Now that, would be a trip. Be way up on my list.

[rock]

Be extremely hard to sleep.

Rock

[1FASTLASER]

Be extremely hard to sleep.

Rock
Lol@Rock....I. Can't sleep waiting to see the next post on this thread. Shoot I am still offering to check the air pressure in the trailers and tow vehicles. To be able to read how this is unfolding is awesome !!!!!!!

[Spectre Powerboats]

We are back in Ohio with no issues, love Kentucky. We made it back with trailer, Tinker Toy, 9 motors, 6 gearcases, 2 Wright's devices (one being the one Jon built for me in 1993), lots of good stuff to work with. I think I am most excited about the turbo OMC. BAD ASS!! That is all I can say. I will start posting pics tomorrow. Right now, I am crashing and going to bed. Again Thank you Jon, Gina and Rodney Nance.

[Mr. Demeanor]

Earlier in the thread there was a post about Monty building a motor for this??? Was that for you or the "other guys". Trying to keep it all straight....I might be completely mistaken....again.

[Spectre Powerboats]

Monty has built at least a couple motors for Rick George, the other guy trying the kilo with a Dan Ellison boat. I was also talking to Monty, but after finding he was building for Rick, I chose another route for now. Nothing against Monty, top notch guy to deal with and I may still do business with him down the road here. We have 2 V-8's, but not built by Monty, that are very healthy. All I gotta say is, I found some of Jon's notes on dyno numbers for the turbo motor. :cheers:

[Instigator]

We are back in Ohio with no issues, love Kentucky. We made it back with trailer, Tinker Toy, 9 motors, 6 gearcases, 2 Wright's devices (one being the one Jon built for me in 1993), lots of good stuff to work with. I think I am most excited about the turbo OMC. BAD ASS!! That is all I can say. I will start posting pics tomorrow. Right now, I am crashing and going to bed. Again Thank you Jon, Gina and Rodney Nance.
Only thing to make this report any better would be pix's. Oh and maybe a copy of the turbo's dyno #'s ; )

Todd, I think it's way cool that you bought everything Jon had. Great to see it go as a package and to someone who respects the history and respect involved.
Now Jon is not only smilin, he's sitting in a lawn chair in your shop w/a beer in his hand and a **** eattin grin all the way across his face while comparing notes with Galen.

Well done Sir.

[STV_Keith]

Given that this project doesn't have the constraints of a production package for the engine, and is likely not to run a production mid since you are going with an external rudder, the turbo idea seems like the best way to make HP. Make a new exhaust adapter with an outlet setup to sent the exhaust charge to the turbo that can be mounted in front of the motor, in the boat, wherever. Make it easy to get to and easy to work on. The motor is fixed and doesn't need to turn...that makes piping a no brainer. MoTeC, Wolf or any of the dozens of other systems out there will let you tune it. Good luck in whatever you decide. I'm certainly paying attention...cool project!

[Mr. Demeanor]

It would be cool to see a naturally aspirated record and then a boost/nitrous record.

[Spectre Powerboats]

I think it would be very cool to have an event once or twice a year just for the outboards to come and set different kilo or some sort of top speed records. One for hydros, one for tunnels, one for vee hulls, nitrous, no nitrous and etc type classes. An outboard only event. I don't know, just throwing out thoughts. APR Superleague last year ran an event for top speed runs and are doing it this year for certain APBA classes. Unfortunately APBA does not recognize a lot of classes that would be need to be included. There is no unlimited outboard or hydro classes, very restricted weights, highly modified and power added motors not allowed. So, do you run under APBA, call Lucas, another association or what? My other complaint is, why should APBA or UIM set top speed rules? Just like Ken Warby said, why is it ok to run with 10 boats on a turning course with lesser rules, than one boat running a straight away.

[Mr. Demeanor]

I think it would be very cool to have an event once or twice a year just for the outboards to come and set different kilo or some sort of top speed records. One for hydros, one for tunnels, one for vee hulls, nitrous, no nitrous and etc type classes. An outboard only event. I don't know, just throwing out thoughts. APR Superleague last year ran an event for top speed runs and are doing it this year for certain APBA classes. Unfortunately APBA does not recognize a lot of classes that would be need to be included. There is no unlimited outboard or hydro classes, very restricted weights, highly modified and power added motors not allowed. So, do you run under APBA, call Lucas, another association or what? My other complaint is, why should APBA or UIM set top speed rules? Just like Ken Warby said, why is it ok to run with 10 boats on a turning course with lesser rules, than one boat running a straight away.

Give me a 4 cyl category and I am in.


Or...just bring it to the Foleys fall Suwanee Run :D

[Da Bull]

I think it would be very cool to have an event once or twice a year just for the outboards to come and set different kilo or some sort of top speed records. One for hydros, one for tunnels, one for vee hulls, nitrous, no nitrous and etc type classes. An outboard only event. I don't know, just throwing out thoughts. APR Superleague last year ran an event for top speed runs and are doing it this year for certain APBA classes. Unfortunately APBA does not recognize a lot of classes that would be need to be included. There is no unlimited outboard or hydro classes, very restricted weights, highly modified and power added motors not allowed. So, do you run under APBA, call Lucas, another association or what? My other complaint is, why should APBA or UIM set top speed rules? Just like Ken Warby said, why is it ok to run with 10 boats on a turning course with lesser rules, than one boat running a straight away.



I agree. Sounds like a great event. Outlaw classes if you will. Who cares if APBA, UIM or any other group of racing recognizes the records, We will!

DB

[Instigator]

I think it would be very cool to have an event once or twice a year just for the outboards to come and set different kilo or some sort of top speed records. One for hydros, one for tunnels, one for vee hulls, nitrous, no nitrous and etc type classes. An outboard only event. I don't know, just throwing out thoughts. APR Superleague last year ran an event for top speed runs and are doing it this year for certain APBA classes. Unfortunately APBA does not recognize a lot of classes that would be need to be included. There is no unlimited outboard or hydro classes, very restricted weights, highly modified and power added motors not allowed. So, do you run under APBA, call Lucas, another association or what? My other complaint is, why should APBA or UIM set top speed rules? Just like Ken Warby said, why is it ok to run with 10 boats on a turning course with lesser rules, than one boat running a straight away.
Do a search on here of "Rumble on the River. An event we used to do on the Ohio River in Ky w/a similar theme.

Most people thought I was nuts when I started it and that none of the fast guys would show up w/o a large purse. They were wrong.
We had a GPS run (no rules or classes) and ended up w/3 or 4 classes for the drags to try and get everyone off the beach.
The best surprise was all the fast (as in active racers) guys that showed up for the classes w/no scales and near zero motor rules. Guys drove across the country, blew up tons of stuff, to try and win an award I printed w/my lap top.
Ends up, it is about bragging rights.

I think your idea is killer. The drags thing has been beat long/hard. Top end runs on the other hand........, lots of guys post lots of big #'s in different locations on different GPS's and radar guns.
Be BIG fun to have a central location w/common procedure for the guys to throw down.
We had two different Unlimited hydros run at the Rumble and as I recall, the highest ever GPS # was 128 by Dennis Vitolo in an STV RR w/no juice.

Liability and insurance would be the only issue I see. Your lake would be killer.
The liability issue is one of the reasons drags are so popular. Also why most are now running short course too as it keeps the speeds down.
I was committed to a full 1/4 mile for the drags when I started the Rumble but insurers wouldn't even talk to me unless I shortened it up to 700'.

[Hot Shot Merc]

Maybe you should look into the AOF. This could be done under them and with insurance ect.

[Instigator]

Maybe you should look into the AOF. This could be done under them and with insurance ect.
Great idea Rob!

[proprider]

Carl Staron in Florida is the connection for AOF. I believe his contact information is on BRF.

[dagodiver]

awesome stuff.!
I now nothing but it sure seems like you could put 2 v6 merc power heads one in front of the other and have a very dependable 600++ HP. Belt drive to a common mid/lower.
would be very straight forward from a machining standpoint. The fact that the engine is not for steering makes it pretty simple in the big picture. or would that be considered a twin engine.?

Dago.

[powerabout]

here's one I prepared earlier281635
as they say..

[Mr. Demeanor]

awesome stuff.!
I now nothing but it sure seems like you could put 2 v6 merc power heads one in front of the other and have a very dependable 600++ HP. Belt drive to a common mid/lower.
would be very straight forward from a machining standpoint. The fact that the engine is not for steering makes it pretty simple in the big picture. or would that be considered a twin engine.?

Dago.

In my world, all the OMC V8's are actually twin engines.

[CptAJ]

awesome stuff.!
I now nothing but it sure seems like you could put 2 v6 merc power heads one in front of the other and have a very dependable 600++ HP. Belt drive to a common mid/lower.
would be very straight forward from a machining standpoint. The fact that the engine is not for steering makes it pretty simple in the big picture. or would that be considered a twin engine.?

Dago.

Is it really an outboard at that point though?

[gen2flight]

I would like to see the record fall but only to a naturally aspirated 2 stroke. Outboard record NOT Autoboard/turbo/4stroke. Do it with a 2 stroke!! If the record can fall using less displacement/cylinders then do that first. 200 is a huge #, beating the record will be an enourmous achievement if it is an apples to apples comparison.
If the record could fall to a V6 it would be amazing, gotta be a 2stroke powerhead for me.

[powerabout]

Is it really an outboard at that point though?
I know a guy that had a cosworth V8 on a sterndrive that the UIM classed as an outboard....that pissed off Merc

[boston]

I'm in.

[SCT]

"I know a guy that had a cosworth V8 on a sterndrive that the UIM classed as an outboard....that pissed off Merc"

Jackie?

[powerabout]

"I know a guy that had a cosworth V8 on a sterndrive that the UIM classed as an outboard....that pissed off Merc"

Jackie?
the one and only....
You know his son is rebuilding the boat, its clearly unique and has a McM 1 drive speedmaster, I think the 3 shaft version, very rare.

[CptAJ]

I would like to see the record fall but only to a naturally aspirated 2 stroke. Outboard record NOT Autoboard/turbo/4stroke. Do it with a 2 stroke!! If the record can fall using less displacement/cylinders then do that first. 200 is a huge #, beating the record will be an enourmous achievement if it is an apples to apples comparison.
If the record could fall to a V6 it would be amazing, gotta be a 2stroke powerhead for me.


I know a guy that had a cosworth V8 on a sterndrive that the UIM classed as an outboard....that pissed off Merc


This is the thing right here. It's a very fine line. Very subjective and highly emotional for some. For instance, I have no problem with turbos and 4strokes. But then taking a nascar engine and hanging it off the back of the boat... that's too much for me.

I'm not saying I'm right, mind you. Just shooting the **** about how blurry these definitions are and how much we take them to heart.

[powerabout]

yep
A well known F1 driver way back in OZ put a chev on his CCC mid, went damn quick in a straight line as the class was unlimited outboard in those days.
Move forward a few years and use a short OMC V8 mid and an aluminium LS and you might have a contender...

[Hot Shot Merc]

Thanks Gary.

As for the twin powerheads on one lower goes I personaly would like to see it done with a two stroke conventional outboard motor. Merc,OMC,Yamaha whatever. As long as its not a car motor turned on its side, similar to what all of us run and love then its a record worth breaking. Its obvious it has to be done with a fixeed engine and a transom mounted rutter steering like the previous record but either way its not up to us or me so I think we should let Todd follow through with his ideals and direction. Im sure he appreciates all the great wisdom and advise we have to offer but I think hes got a pretty good plan of attack here. Great ideas by all by the way. Myabe others should think about an attempt with these ideas? :cheers:

[Michael J Giesler]

Do a search on here of "Rumble on the River. An event we used to do on the Ohio River in Ky w/a similar theme.

Most people thought I was nuts when I started it and that none of the fast guys would show up w/o a large purse. They were wrong.
We had a GPS run (no rules or classes) and ended up w/3 or 4 classes for the drags to try and get everyone off the beach.
The best surprise was all the fast (as in active racers) guys that showed up for the classes w/no scales and near zero motor rules. Guys drove across the country, blew up tons of stuff, to try and win an award I printed w/my lap top.
Ends up, it is about bragging rights.

I think your idea is killer. The drags thing has been beat long/hard. Top end runs on the other hand........, lots of guys post lots of big #'s in different locations on different GPS's and radar guns.
Be BIG fun to have a central location w/common procedure for the guys to throw down.
We had two different Unlimited hydros run at the Rumble and as I recall, the highest ever GPS # was 128 by Dennis Vitolo in an STV RR w/no juice.

Liability and insurance would be the only issue I see. Your lake would be killer.
The liability issue is one of the reasons drags are so popular. Also why most are now running short course too as it keeps the speeds down.
I was committed to a full 1/4 mile for the drags when I started the Rumble but insurers wouldn't even talk to me unless I shortened it up to 700'.

I know one guy that was king of the rumble and one crazy ally driver that went 126 across some big a $$ waves

[RBT]

I know one guy that was king of the rumble and one crazy ally driver that went 126 across some big a $$ waves

i can't believe nobody got that on video!

gator, I thought Dixon went 132 there

[Capt.Insane-o]

i can't believe nobody got that on video!



and he came back to the ramp asking for a bigger prop :)

[RBT]

and he came back to the ramp asking for a bigger prop :)

Ya cus there were two STV's he had to beat.... Or try.

[Instigator]

i can't believe nobody got that on video!

gator, I thought Dixon went 132 there

Yep, probably the most epic pass of all time.

I don't remember the 132 but the Rumbles all kinda run together for me.

[Capt.Insane-o]

Ya cus there were two STV's he had to beat.... Or try.

Yea but.. I did'nt see anyone in an STV drive through the wake of a push barge at or very near full pedal either. ;)

[Michael J Giesler]

and he came back to the ramp asking for a bigger prop :)

After they saw jeff run that hard with an ally they said your done rob your right an stv ran in the low 130's I think bob won king that year in drag racing my dad found the hot boat mag up north at our cabin he is going to bring it back home I thought I lost it rob there is video of the rumble on utube I think

[Capt.Insane-o]

After they saw jeff run that hard with an ally they said your done rob your right an stv ran in the low 130's I think bob won king that year in drag racing my dad found the hot boat mag up north at our cabin he is going to bring it back home I thought I lost it rob there is video of the rumble on utube I think

Pretty sure Bill said he was running a 26, I had a really thin 30 and a 32 cleaver in the back of my truck that he could of used, but I think the water conditions deteriorated enough by that point. I can't remember if it was just before or after Jeff, but Dennis went out and ran a 128 that morning.

[Spectre Powerboats]

We will be using a true Mercury or OMC outboard for the record, one motor and one gearcase, but we do have a Richard Childress NASCAR engine ;)

[Capt.Insane-o]

We will be using a true Mercury or OMC outboard for the record, one motor and one gearcase, but we do have a Richard Childress NASCAR engine ;)

Put that ****er in the tow vehicle :)

[Instigator]

Pretty sure Bill said he was running a 26, I had a really thin 30 and a 32 cleaver in the back of my truck that he could of used, but I think the water conditions deteriorated enough by that point. I can't remember if it was just before or after Jeff, but Dennis went out and ran a 128 that morning.
I think you're right on the 26. I was down there when he came in asking for a different prop. I think he went back out and went slower though.
Remember too, we gave them a GPS and they only had 15 mins to put up a #.

Michael, Bob Alby was King of the Rumble one yr but I'm note sure it was that one. He ended up 2nd or 3rd in the drags and GPS runs which gave hime enough points to be king. I think that year G-Train won the top end runs w/a 116 or 118.
I have the Hot Boat story scanned and saved.

BTW, 26" @ 126 x .08% slip = 9577 ;)

[motorheadbishop]

I think you're right on the 26. I was down there when he came in asking for a different prop. I think he went back out and went slower though.
Remember too, we gave them a GPS and they only had 15 mins to put up a #.

Michael, Bob Alby was King of the Rumble one yr but I'm note sure it was that one. He ended up 2nd or 3rd in the drags and GPS runs which gave hime enough points to be king. I think that year G-Train won the top end runs w/a 116 or 118.
I have the Hot Boat story scanned and saved.

BTW, 26" @ 126 x .08% slip = 9577 ;)

Gary actually its probley more like 8.0% which put the rpms @ 10400rpms with a 26....
Wow talkin bout Holden it to the wood... That's one heck of a motor!

[baja200merk]

My prop calculator changes 8.0 or 8 to .08 no matter how you type it in.

[Instigator]

Gary actually its probley more like 8.0% which put the rpms @ 10400rpms with a 26....
Wow talkin bout Holden it to the wood... That's one heck of a motor!

You are correct. Had to use a different one than I am used to. It does as Kevin posted. I thought the R's were way low for a 26 @ that speed.

http://www.mercuryracing.com/propellers/propslipcalculator.php


<tbody>
http://www.mercuryracing.com/_media/images/propellers/propslipcalculator/pitch.gif
http://www.mercuryracing.com/_media/images/propellers/propslipcalculator/gear_ratio.gif
http://www.mercuryracing.com/_media/images/propellers/propslipcalculator/rpm.gif
http://www.mercuryracing.com/_media/images/propellers/propslipcalculator/speed.gif
http://www.mercuryracing.com/_media/images/propellers/propslipcalculator/slip.gif



<input name="pitch" size="3" type="text">

<input name="ratio" size="4" type="text">

<input name="rpm" size="6" type="text">

<input name="speed" size="5" type="text">

<input name="slip" size="2" type="text"> %

</tbody>

[Chaz]

G-money ,
I left my glasses in the shop .. Could you please read back to me the web site where you found the prop calculator .. :D

[1BadAction]

Was he using a 1.78 XR6 case when he ran that? Or a 1.87 full size case? XR6 would be something like 9600rpm and 5% slip.


I left my glasses in the shop .. Could you please read back to me the web site where you found the prop calculator ..

lmao :D

[powerabout]

did you use a metric or imperial rpm..lol

[Capt.Insane-o]

Almost positive it was an xr6, ax Jeff. Anyhoo...

After all the super motor top end stuff is done on the out rigger it'd be interesting to see how stock some new stock greenie powerheads do.

[Instigator]

Was he using a 1.78 XR6 case when he ran that? Or a 1.87 full size case? XR6 would be something like 9600rpm and 5% slip.



lmao :D

I don't remember. They could have been running any gears they wanted too. Remember, I've put 1.62's in two different 2.5 Sporty's.

Chaz, you funny ;)

[afr]

gary /bob and dave,s boat was over driven ssm with a prop speed of 20,000 rpm +

[Hoss Marine Propellers]

.......... a prop speed of 20,000 rpm +

20,000 rpm seems somewhat unrealistic????
If you turn the engine 10,000 rpm and overdrive it 2:1..... just doesn't seem right to me?

[Spectre Powerboats]

Took a lot of pictures tonight and then realized I left the cord at work to download them to my computer. Will post them tomorrow.

[baja200merk]

After all the super motor top end stuff is done on the out rigger it'd be interesting to see how stock some new stock greenie powerheads do.

Im pouring some miracle grow on mine right now :D

[Capt.Insane-o]

20,000 rpm seems somewhat unrealistic????
If you turn the engine 10,000 rpm and overdrive it 2:1..... just doesn't seem right to me?

just another night of

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2l3845kHU1qbpgppo1_r1_250.gif

[Hoss Marine Propellers]

just another night of

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2l3845kHU1qbpgppo1_r1_250.gif

That's Good Stuff !!!!! :iagree:

[afr]

20,000 rpm seems somewhat unrealistic????
If you turn the engine 10,000 rpm and overdrive it 2:1..... just doesn't seem right to me?
didnt do the exact math on it and no one knows the exact gear ratio they did use but when i spoke with bob it was more then 2/1 is what i remembered give or take
14:15 VI SSM or 15:17 IV SSM or a custom set not sure
anyway it was over driven a 10,000 rpm prop speed would not do it and from what i seen and being inthe prop business for a decade my best guess on the pitch was around a 21 -26 p

[Kcraft]

Took a lot of pictures tonight and then realized I left the cord at work to download them to my computer. Will post them tomorrow.

Did you find the old vids ?

[Spectre Powerboats]

http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/08-22-13040.jpg (http://s1031.photobucket.com/user/lambfunnycar/media/Record%20Boat/08-22-13040.jpg.html) http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/08-22-13041.jpg (http://s1031.photobucket.com/user/lambfunnycar/media/Record%20Boat/08-22-13041.jpg.html)

[Spectre Powerboats]

http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/08-22-13038.jpg (http://s1031.photobucket.com/user/lambfunnycar/media/Record%20Boat/08-22-13038.jpg.html) http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/08-22-13037.jpg (http://s1031.photobucket.com/user/lambfunnycar/media/Record%20Boat/08-22-13037.jpg.html) http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/08-22-13034.jpg (http://s1031.photobucket.com/user/lambfunnycar/media/Record%20Boat/08-22-13034.jpg.html) http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/21.jpg (http://s1031.photobucket.com/user/lambfunnycar/media/Record%20Boat/21.jpg.html)

[Spectre Powerboats]

http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/08-22-13033.jpg (http://s1031.photobucket.com/user/lambfunnycar/media/Record%20Boat/08-22-13033.jpg.html) http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/08-22-13035.jpg (http://s1031.photobucket.com/user/lambfunnycar/media/Record%20Boat/08-22-13035.jpg.html) http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/08-22-13036.jpg (http://s1031.photobucket.com/user/lambfunnycar/media/Record%20Boat/08-22-13036.jpg.html) http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/08-22-13039.jpg (http://s1031.photobucket.com/user/lambfunnycar/media/Record%20Boat/08-22-13039.jpg.html)

[MODVP22]

Aerotech those pics just gave me chills :)

[Spectre Powerboats]

Did you find the old vids ?

Yes, I found a bunch of them and my wife bought a VHS to dvd converter machine, so we should have some up here real soon.

[olboatman]

:thumbsup:aerotech Looks like you got a lot of good "stuff". Your ready to rock an roll! This is getting more exciting each day. Gary;)

[Hoss Marine Propellers]

..............with a prop speed of 20,000 rpm +


didnt do the exact math on it and no one knows the exact gear ratio they did use but when i spoke with bob it was more then 2/1 is what i remembered give or take
14:15 VI SSM or 15:17 IV SSM or a custom set not sure
anyway it was over driven a 10,000 rpm prop speed would not do it and from what i seen and being inthe prop business for a decade my best guess on the pitch was around a 21 -26 p


I don't like to start any arguments on the internet, so please don't take this the wrong way.......
When you say 20,000+ prop rpm ........ That just seems a little excessive to me?
I should have expressed my example as 10K engine speed with a 1:2 overdrive ratio to get the 20,000 prop rpm. (Not 2:1 overdrive)

But let's just look at 20K prop rpm .......... with a 26" prop = theoretical speed 492 mph
.......... with a 21" prop = theoretical speed 398mph

Building ANY special gearset and getting anywhere close to 1:2 overdrive in the SSM case is IMPOSSIBLE to do!!!! No Room ..... the drive gear (pinion) would have to have twice as many teeth as the driven gear (propshaft) You could overdrive it slightly and then turn the motor an extreme rpm. You could also run a transmission between the engine & lower unit and overdrive the gearcase.

I've worked with Eddie Knox & prop work on his Top Fuel Hydro "Problem Child".........
They severely overdrive their twin props ........
They can't turn the props +20K (They are close to that, though!!!!)......
They run 6000+ hp ..... sometimes more????
They run 20" pitch 2 blade propellers.......
They hold the record at 261.233 mph in 3.368 seconds!

So, in conclusion, again ..... I'm just saying that it doesn't seem correct ......

[Hoss Marine Propellers]

Great Pics .......
Looks like a lot of great stuff to work with!!!!
Keep it coming!

[Spectre Powerboats]

The Wright's Device that is laying on the table, that is the up draft style. Jon built for me in 1993, I had tears in my eyes when I found it. I did not know Jon bought it back from the guy I sold it to.

[Spectre Powerboats]

http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/08-22-13b001.jpg (http://s1031.photobucket.com/user/lambfunnycar/media/Record%20Boat/08-22-13b001.jpg.html) http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/lambfunnycar/Record%20Boat/08-22-13b002.jpg (http://s1031.photobucket.com/user/lambfunnycar/media/Record%20Boat/08-22-13b002.jpg.html)

[MODVP22]

The Wright's Device that is laying on the table, that is the up draft style. Jon built for me in 1993, I had tears in my eyes when I found it. I did not know Jon bought it back from the guy I sold it to.

I'd be glad to come over and help organize. Hey us OHIO outboard people gotta stick together ;)

[milkdud]

Simply awesome! That outrigger looks like it could enter orbit.

Conrad

[afr]

loookss sweet a hudge pile of goodies

hoss thats what i was told i am not try to argue with anyone just stating what i was told

[Hoss Marine Propellers]

hoss thats what i was told i am not try to argue with anyone just stating what i was told

Yes, I'm not trying to argue about anything either or start an argument ...... :nonod:
Anyone can post any comments or opinions when on-line & I want to be respectful of those comments or opinions.
I talk to a LOT of people and hear many stories/comments .......
Some things just don't make sense & that's why I was commenting about the prop rpm?

[STV_Keith]

Some things just don't make sense & that's why I was commenting about the prop rpm?

IIRC, OMC built a custom one-off speedmaster type case that was overdriven for the water speed record attempt boat. With this effort, the easiest thing to do would be to run a 1:1 SSMIV and put an overdrive trans in the midsection they build. The components they just got from Jon may include a 2-speed trans he did (I saw the pics before, so maybe they got them), but that could be reconfigured to be OD.

From my calcs, 9000rpm, 35% OD (1:0.74 OD box - that's a Lenco ratio), 5% slip with a 20p prop is 218mph.