Off Subj. But, I'm "econo" Car Shopping :)

[Instigator]

Trying to get back on my feet financially and making head way.
I'm down to one neccesary vehicle, "TOWPIG II" which is the 454, 11.6 (.6 :eek: ) m.p.g. van that I need for work.
Now I need a "econo" car to drive that gets at least 11.7 mpg for non work related travelling etc.
Have narrowed it down to a few models and years.
Set a limit of $3K ($2500 of it coming from the sale of "econo tow pigg I" Saturday :))and have been amazed at what I've found so far!
Reason I posted this was in case any of you guys had or knew of something local along these lines. (I will travel if the deal is right)
Luckily for me I like the stuff that is about one body style old which makes it way cheaper!!
#1. on the list is a '92-'95 Bonneville. Had one before and it was the nicest American made car I ever drove!
Prefer the non blown cars but I found a virgin, hi mileage, one owner SSEI that is driving me nuts!
#2. would probably be the '88 to '95 Mitsubishi Diamanttes (sp?) always loved those cars!! None local though. Closet I can find are in Auburn Hills Mi, and one in the Chic,Il and one in Louvil,Ky area (not very many around)
#3. is the '92 - '95 Ford Taurus with the 3.8 V-6
Really like these cars too, but w/o getting the SHO, they are not as nice inside as the others. (more of the plain vanilla wrapper thing)
If anybody knows of anything on this list thats $3K or less, let me know.
Thanks guys!
Gary 614-777-5885

[Raceman]

Damn Infultratur, I didn't know you could buy a Yugo for 3 grand anymore. Are you real sure you want to jump into high mileage front wheel drive stuff? Talk about upkeep costs..........have you ever had CV joints done???? How bout a Crown Vic/Grand Marquis? Aren't there some rice rockets around up there that are RWD and real economical???

[H2Onut]

bone-ville YES YES YES

My wifes is an 89, 175,100 miles and still looks NEW and drives like it !

[Instigator]

Raceman, have had 5 Volkswagens never bought any of them with less than 100K miles and made money on every one.
Only raer drive anymore is either a sports car or land yacht, i.e. Crown Victoria.
Those damn things are for old people.
Remember, I'm a young pup compared to you :D (always wanted to be able to say that;) )

Have had a Taurus and loved it too.
Just got off the phone with a guy 10 miles away with a '93 Taurus LX (I think) w/a 3.8 (is an up grade from the 3.0) V-6.
Near pefect cond, 108K miles, $1700. :D

Nut the Bonnie I'm looking at is going to be between $3K and $3300. and I'm just not sure I can squeze it!!
It is freakin gorgeous though!!
My '95 had the standard 3.8 and still made 210 Hp's and was a blast to drive.
Totally bummed my buddy when I dusted his V-8 powered Aurora:D

[Rickracer]

They are somewhat prone to head gasket problems, cylinder head cracking, and finicky transmissions. I've had quite a few high mileage B-villes/LeSabres, and they are da ****. Seen bunches with 180K and above that still run and ride like new. Can hardly go wrong there. Just my personal and professional .02 :cool:

[LakeTrash]

Dump 50K+ in boats and then buy a 2500 dollar car.

I have never been so proud.

LT

[delawarerick]

Gary listen to RR the 3.8 had head gasket problems mine went at 90k and the trans followed. The 3.0 is a better engine not performance wise but longitivity wise. Oh yeh put head gasket on and the bottom end went. Still have taurus but for the 80k in repairs I could have a benz. Rick:eek:

[Instigator]

First off to LT, how do you think I can afford my ****???
Drive beater cars, live in beater houses, Hell I have to break up with my girlfriend every Christmas and on her birthdays so I don't have to buy her presents :D (my friends think I'm a genious on that one)

Thanks RR and De.Rick for the insight.

I know and like the 3.0 but don't know anything about the 3.8's.
This guy even said that he replaced the head gasket a year ago:eek:
I wanted to be able to tow the Vector with it though so I thought the 3.8 would be the way to go.

Course, every one said the 3.8's in the pontiyachts were bullet proof too but I had to have a rear main seal ($650.) put in mine just to sell the damn thing@!

[Jason Huber]

One of GM's best engine products since the roll-out of the original small-block Chev engine family way back in 55' ;) Might even be better from the standpoint of efficiency and certainly fuel economy... In the ten years I've been with GE - 4 yrs. in the trenches cutting purchase orders to shops for repairs on our fleet vehicles, then buying cars for 6yrs - at one time or another I've seen em' all. (1 in every 12 cars on the road is either leased,financed, or was previously owned by us or a fleet customer) Taurus = #1 Fleet car. Generally good car to 100k, then...well, the prior comments about it above are all true. The Bonne's, Park Ave/ LeSabre platform is a great value & you can pile **** LOADS of miles on em' ! :D Later 90's cars had some issues w/ plastic intakes cracking & fuel preasure regulator failures. Dont' get a blown (SSE/ULTRA/Riv/GS...) unless you know who owned it or less than 80k on the clock w/good oilchange history...;) I only buy high mileage stuff for my drivers :D My rule of thumb: always buy the "honest" car I.E.- you can chrome a turd, but its still a POS inside... Just IMO... :)

[insptech]

3.8 Ford = VERRY BAD

3.8 GM = Pretty good.

Ford FWD trans weak at best

GM FWD trans passable, one every 120k or so.

Go with the Bonne

[B.Leonard]

That has to be one of the cruelest jokes to the car buying public there ever was. Rick was right, I'd rather have the plague! :D

My mother bought one new without asking me. I drove it down the Interstate when it had 35k miles on it. The trans shifted into OD at 80 and must have attempted to lock 2 gears in at once (3rd and OD). It smoked the entire transmission in an instant. Drove straight to the dealer and dropped it off (warranty).

Her Taurus has been a nightmare... AC, brakes, motor mounts you name it, it's gone bad. Has to be one of the poorest excuses for engineering on 4-wheels there ever was and I like Fords!

-BL

[sho305]

The older taurus had tranny problems that are better in the newer ones. My '99 still puked a pump at 60k and it was $1k to fix. Trans shifts slow like all of them, otherwise a great car, and great driver. It has the 3.0, thinking of getting a chip for it to see if it makes the tranny work better.

I have a Weller ad here in the Michigan auto & rv with a '97 taurus 3.0 with 78k for 2,300. In the damaged section and looks to need a front bumper cover is all. http://www.partsbyweller.com/repair/index.html Not listed on the site there, but you can find them very reasonable. I got mine way below market. In other words, I could put a whole new tranny in it and still be a long ways from what I burrowed! Credit card had a higher rate at the time. I would recommend the newer taurus, like '96 up(?), or some other car.

I have a '92 SHO I bought and fixed up, but I got close to 3500 into it I think. And yes, it goes like all hell!:D Just unreal compared to the 99 3.0. About the same to 4k rpm, then the sho just gets twice the power up to 7000rpm. When you shift out of 3rd your over a 100mph. They have all the nice leather and moonroof and stuff too. Is a stick though.

The Bonny/LeSaber/Park Ave are good cars I hear and reliable. I guess they used to toss rods in the end, trannys in migh miles too. Like most of the GMs, I hear the sport model's stiffer suspension holds up better later on.

Some of you forget, the fwd goes through snow, and the rwd is for powerslides! If ya got the wife driving it, or want to go someplace in the winter....the rwd sits. Unless you are like me and think it is fun....

I would seriously see if you could pull a good deal on that Olds Intrigue. Not knowing prices, but I and others drove rental cars and this was the best GM by far. I was impressed & I'm more of a Ford guy. Very tight, and like the taurus was a good reasinable driver's car. All the rest of the GM rentals had stuff falling off them. It has the 3.8 in the older ones, and this is the first GM I would pick for that size car. Laid great rubber when you turned off the traction control:D :D ;)

[Instigator]

Jason, how about a '94 SSEI w/140K from original owner?? and a woman ;) (not thats really a good thing:D )

Screwed my self up here a while back.
Was gonna take $1 to $2K and go get a Vee Wee.
Had 5 and loved all of em. All hi mile rides and no surprise with any of em.
Well then Idecide if I get something with a V-6 I can pull my Vector with it instead of the 11 mpg tow pigg if we don't need it for camping.
Now I'm also raising my finance cap cause I'm gettin geeked about the "shinny" cars:D

Staretd out lookin at plain SE Bonnies, now I'm lookin at SSEI's
Same with Taurus's
My brother and I both had 3.0's and loved em. I figured the 3.8 was better for towing. Thanks to you guys now I know I'm WRONG! (told that guy I'd meet him at 5:00 tomorrow with cash!)
Seen some good "sounding" deals on some SHO's too, but don't really want to give up the mileage or be spending bux on replacing parts from some kid driving the damn thing.

Still leaning towards a Bonnie at this point I guess.
Thanx for your help guys and keep it coming.
P.S. , B.L., I had a '95 Shadow ES V-6 company car that did the same tranny trick as your moms :eek: Twice! You'd be cruising along at 55 or so and it would electronically go into 1st gear!
Those trannys were also notorious pcs of **** about '89 - '95

[Jason Huber]

I'd never be afraid of any car - power-adder or not - with high miles if it has PROVABLE origin/history. Oil change frequency and P/M history are critical to ANY internal-gas-combustion. Blower/turbo motors increase this need EXPONENTIALLY:eek: Translation; I'd rather buy the 140k SSEI with LOF history every 3-4k(or better yet - running SYNTH!...:D) than something w/ half the miles that has no history, and/or looks like it hasnt' been someones "pride & joy"... E.I. most Fleet/Rental cars... ;) Anyone who can even FIND there way to a websight like this one, will likely already have at least some mechanical common-sense & will certainly know a POS when they see it! Boat, car or other... :D

[Instigator]

Have always said that about the maint vs mileage thing, was just interested if there was any surprises in store on the blower 3.8's I guess??
A blower looks to be much cheaper and easier to replace than a Turbo anyhow.
I think they only pick up anopther 30 HP's on the EI's which makes me think the boost is set rather low/safe from the factory.
(for now)
The other strugle on the personal/financial side is $1500. plain vanilla wrapper, or $3K pretty/fun car???
One thing that I've always found to be true on my side too is, the prettier/more fun that is, the better care I take of it.

Also found another '93 SE w/213K on it.
$1500.! Enough to make you say, "hummmmmmhh".

We'll see. Doing the Cols Ohio to Cleveland and back trip today.
Lots of dealers along the way:D

Thanks again for the insight.
Gary

[sho305]

I have bought two turbo cars that were sick. It was a great deal as I got them very cheap, and a turbo is only about $600 for most. That turbo is much easier to change than a head gasket;) I imagine a blower lasts longer, but if you get clearance inside it will be expensive to fix.

There is neighbor here with a 93(?) taurus 3.8 that just got a new tranny, it was not that expensive, and it keeps going way past 100k miles now. Not knowing history. You could get older Continentals with 3.8 cheap to. For the most part, the newer the better so the 96 and up are better for fords. Grandma had a low mile 3.8 '94 taurus they gave away last year in FL due to head gasket, like $400. I begged them to bring it back for me, even offered $$.

The SHO V-6 is very bulletproof. The clutches get roasted from abuse, and the rockers leak oil on to the plugboots. Also have to do 60k valve clearance service I guess. Many are running with 200k on them, check out the shotimes(?) site. The V-8 SHO has a big problem though, the cam pulleys fall off!! And they are after Ford about it. They are pressed on. The V-8 car is slower/heavier and auto trans only.

About all the cars I have right now came from a repo auction or repo lot. They were cheap and some where damaged. They advertise cars here like crazy that are repairables, but they want huge $$ for them. The are not worth much at all. I do not have a clue as to who is buying them. They make it hard to find a deal now, and the used car market prices are dropping anyway; so why do the work? Better to spend your time chasing a good deal.:)

[Jason Huber]

I personally know of several GM 3800's running, (with normal P/M + small hard parts - water pumps, whl. brgs, f-pumps...) deep into the 200k mark, but I'd be a little queezy... :rolleyes: 216k is probably borrowed time, but who knows??? Other than oil leaks, some transaxle/driveline issues, & prev mentioned stuff, (crank/rod problems were an 80's trend - R&D and evolution took care of by 89'-90' I think...) its' a ROCK SOLID platform & we buy a ton of em!...:D

[FCnLa]

How 'bout an SS Impala?

With the LT1 engine it should get decent milage and pull your Stream faster that it would go on the water! :D

Otherwise, the Bonnie.

[Ron V]

Instigator,

STAY AWAY FROM THE FREAKING TAURUS! Especially in that year. My dad had a '93 with the 3.8 and it was better than the Plymouth Reliant he had before that but not much better! They are known for head gasket problems. If you get 50,000 miles out of a set of gaskets on one you are doing damn well, even if you warm it up nice and slow. Also, the transmissions are pure ****. Very sluggish in shifting, can't make up their mind when to shift, etc. Changing the fluid frequently helps but they have a lot of problems. The interiors fall apart too, and they ride like a coaster wagon compared to the GM stuff.

I'd get the Bonneville, hands down. The 3800 is one hell of a motor.

I've got a 2000 Buick Century with a 3100 SFI that I use for everything. They are rated to tow 1000 lbs (like all front wheel drive cars are) but a Class II hitch is available for them. 25 mpg around town and 32-35 on the highway, no kidding. Still get low 20s pulling the boat. Embarassed the **** out of a gangbanger in a Camaro 305 TPI with it a couple weeks ago. Only problem is I doubt there is one of the newer generation of Centurys in your price range, the new version came out in '98 I think. The '99s had some improvements and in 2000 they really got their act completely together and bumped the horsepower up to 175. The 2000s are going for about $7500 right now, but I bet the '98s are quite a bit less. You never know what you find.

[Instigator]

the seller agreed to $3K and I'm takin it!
Spent today stopping at every poe dunk car lot between here and Cleveland (120 miles) and the best I saw were several clean, plain vanilla wrapper 3.o Taurus and found one '95 SHO that had 107K on it and was very interesting.
But, small time dealer, no history on the car, been sitting for ever, repainted (****ty job) fron bumper, and the motors are a bitch to work on!! $3K though??

This Bonne has 140K on it, orig female owner, all main records, garge kept, replaced with a new Jag! Only thing it doesn't have that I wanted is a sun roof.
But for $3K?

I'll post pixs once I get it home.
Thanx again for all the help/advice guys, very enlightening!
Oh yeah, I asked the guy at the lot with the SHO about the 3.8 Fords.
He said their **** and constantly blow head gaskets:eek:
Gary

[Ron V]

Instigator,

Congratulations, sounds like you got a decent deal. I've been out of the used car market for quite awhile, last one I bought was in 1995 and at that time I know anything that started and ran was $500. If it ran on all it's cylinders and shifted into gear that automatically put it about $700. "Very well maintained" was a term used to describe $1000 junkers that hadn't run in three months. $1500 would get you something that started, ran, and drove mostly straight. It took about $3000 then to get something good regardless of mileage, so I'd say that for what you got 3 grand was pretty good. I personally never have bought the "female owned and driven" argument when I see it in ads. But I'm sure it was well taken care of, sounds like it. If they bought a Jaguar they are more into image than driving like they are nuts. Come to think of it I never saw a Jaguar owner drive that fast on the street.

Ron

[sho305]

Sounds like a good deal. If you could not get a newer tauri, yes I'd stay away. That sloppy tranny is a pain when the rest of the car is nice. You go around a corner into a driveway and floor it....it will not go to first at 10mph and just bogs....then when it finally speeds up it goes back to first in time to shift to second! I'd love to punch the dork that programed that thing. They might as well bought them from GM. Also can not move your foot when it is shifting or you will confuse it for 5 seconds or so. 1999, and we don't know how to shift an auto tranny yet? Just no excuse, and the real kicker is they will not fix it even now. They just have to leave one sucky thing about the car I guess.

[eautosales]

GOOD DEAL THE PONTIAC IS AWAY BETTER CHOICE THEN THE HEAD GASKET PUKING 3.8 FORD
JUST DID A BLOWN MOTOR IN A 95 TAURAUS 3.8 OVERHEAT
IT WAS EASIER TO PUT A MOTOR IN
JUNK YARD MOTOR WITH NEW HEAD GASKETS I INSTASLLED
WHAT A PILE OF CRAP YA HAVE TO DROP THE MOTOR OUT THE BOTTOM MOTOR TRANNY & CRADLE WHAT A PAIN IN THE REAR
GM WAS A SMART MOVE

[Instigator]

outside

[Instigator]

i like the interior as much as the exterior

ps, can't imagine pulling the damn motor out throguh the bottom!
the front drivers are nice running cars, but if you have to do much more than plugs!
Took me 2 hrs to put plugs in the back cylinder bank of a '95 Cutlas I sold last Summer!!

[Instigator]

rear seats

[eautosales]

THERE IS A TRICK TO THE CUTLASS REAR PLUGS:D
UN BOLT THE FRONT HALF OF THE DOG BONE MOTOR MOUNT
PRY THE MOTOR FORWARD STICK THE BOLT THROUGH THE EXTRA EYLET IN THE DOG BONE ANDNOW YOU HAVE LOTS OF ROOM TO CHANGE THE PLUGS;)

THE BONNI LOOKS SWEET

[Rickracer]

Some replacements have the extra hole, some don't. :rolleyes:

[Instigator]

sell the car as I did:D

Course this damn thing's probably the same huh? :eek:

[eautosales]

NOPE NO SPECIAL TRICKS OR TOOLS TA TUNE UP A 3800
RATCHET EXTENSION & SPARK PLUG SOCKET

[sho305]

That is a sharp car! I'd say ya did good!

[Instigator]

not bad for $3K huh?

Been driving a $900. van for the last year, and then a one ton 454 van for the last 2 months.
Gonna feel good to drive a car again! (especially when most people will think it's a two or three year old $35K car :) )

My only question is, on a blower motor I only have to decrease the pulley size on the blower to increase boost right:D

[sho305]

Heat is the enemy with forced induction. The first thing I would do, is dump a bottle of Redline Water-Wetter in the cooling system. This will help keep the computer from retarding the timing when it gets hot or knocks, by eliminating hot spots in the chambers. I am sure you can find all you need to know on the web if you want to hop one up:)

[eautosales]

i use it & my cars run cooler

[B.Leonard]

That thing looks nice and comfy!

You're right, you're gonna have everyone fooled into thinking your high class now. Not the gear-head, outboard freak, "work-for-2cycle-oil" bum we know! :D LOL!

;) ;) ;)

-BL

[Instigator]

yeah I pull into Carrollton this year for the Rumble they'll think I'm a big time promoter now;)
Course I'll have the trunk full of looper parts and all my best wheels in the back seat:D ( like the guy I used to know from Cleveland that towed a Hydrostream Vegas with a '68 Coupe Deville with no back seat so he could haul all his wheels with him. I swear!)
Those things are one of the most comfortable rides though.
Hell, I bet if I tow the Vector down South with that thing I can cut an hour off my time!

You guys (sho and eauto) reallly think that stuff works?? Looks/sounds like snake oil to me?

[sho305]

I am sure it works! Maybe in a normal car not running boost or lots of timing it will not help much, but your computer pulls timing and/or boost if it hears any knock. In my Laser turbo, it would loose power and the boost gauge would go down. In fact, if it was not that hot out I could run midgrade ok, before the Redline I had to run premo unless it was snowing out! It is only $10 a bottle and seems to last quite a while. They say it works even better if you use less antifreeze and more water, but I can't here of course.

[Instigator]

was going to try it in my super Bee to cool it down this Summer when it was running hot.
Course that was before I looked in the radiator and saw that my 3 bottles of stop leak that I used (to seal a head where I went a little too far with a die grinder) had plugged the passages.
I will try it though, thanks for the tip!
Gary

[Jason Huber]

Looks like a nice piece!!;) Enjoy beatin' up the wine & cheezers in thier Beemers and Lexus' out on the turnpike!...:D

[Rickracer]

....believe me, the Water Wetter stuff does work. I had the biggest brass radiator I could fit in the cowl, (the biggest Corvette 4 core laid back like in the Vette), and it would run about 200* to 220* in the summer in traffic. That stuff dropped my average temp by about 10*, it and a few other changes got me down to a liveable 180* to 190 in traffic during the heat of the day. :cool:

[Instigator]

good info, I'll have to try it

My Bee was fine until that crap plugged it up

Didn't expect it when i built it but it would sit in traffic all day at 160*

Problem is to fix it right I need to pull the head and get it welded.
Been thinking of going to aluminum heads but the damn thing runs so good (7000 RPM!), I think I may have done OK on my porting:D

[Rickracer]

I turned it 9500 one night on the gas through 2 gears trying to catch a car that I gave too many car lengths head start. I had him covered up (so I thought), but spun out of the hole so bad I was almost afraid to get off the gas or the N20, so I just held er pegged and kept shifting till it hooked (high gear). He got me by about a fender, but I completely passed his car in the time it took him to cross the finish line. He said I nearly turned his car around as I went past him. He wouldn't go double or nothing for a second run either, the bastard, claimed he hurt his motor. :confused: :confused:

[Instigator]

Still fighting getting mine to shift.
Ran a 12.60 @ 110 through the mufflers with me granny shiffting the 4 speed.
Have spent almost no time dialing the 6 pack either. It's vaccum actuated and is very slow to open.
So my shiffting problem even exagerates this problem by letting the 6 pack close and re-open between shifts.
I'm still runnning the 3.91's too and want to switch to 4.33's.
I figure there's a 11.8 or 90 in there if I can figure out how to get it out??
The guy that bought my van last weekend said he used to race back in the day (factory Hemi Cuda, and '63 lightweight coronet cross ram wedge!!) and said to give up on the A-833 4 speed and that I'd never get it to shift!
He said that he had heard of guys converting to Muncie M-22's.
You ever heard of that??
Looked into a 5 speed conversion too so i'd have over drive but I don't have $3500. laying around!!
Gary

[sho305]

Rickracer-that sounds nasty! A guy here has a vega with the camaro looking open grill on it. He had a 327 with twin holleys on it, built the same as an old hipo vette motor with the factory hipo cam even. I painted the thing for him, but never did see it put together. About blew my ears out with the open headers he had on it:eek: In my friends boat we were running 6800rpm with the 454s, I was surprised they held up sometimes...like when they got stuck there for 15 minutes because the other guy would not let off...they got a break when we were airborne I guess.

Instigator-I had good luck taking radiators to this local radiator shop on a friday when they had the stop leak in them. He would leave it in the tank for a long time and get all that crap out of there for good cooling. I'd use the flush stuff in the car before, then hook the hose to it and stuff would come out of there nasty with the pressure! Had to tank the radiator though. Also made sure I had plasic/rubber deflectors around/against the radiator tanks in the car so the air had to go through it, that helps a lot.
Also a recovery tank to keep the air out of the cooling system. I find some people like to leave that stuff out when they mess in there, or mod the car...some autobody guys do that too, the sucky ones.

[Rickracer]

I only tried the juice once at the track, street tires, mufflers, went a 10.25@138mph, popping and spittin cuz the NO2 filter was clogged with a bit of teflon tape. They didn't let me get another pass, told me to put it on the trailer, they knew it would go nines next pass.They said 12 point cage [$500] (had a 6 in it), new firesuit [$400], (had a jacket) SFI balancer [$300], trans. blanket [about $100], and new belts [$80] and I could come back and try again. I'm pretty sure it was bumping about 9.70s@140+ slicked, uncapped, and with the juice on. I got rid of it cuz the only guys left to race were the drug dealers, and $2000 to $5000 per race was chump change to them. If you beat them one weekend, some would be back next weekend with a new $20,000 to $30,000 Sonny Bryant or Reher Morrison type motor. Anyone who wasn't a drug dealer wanted crazy car lengths just to race. I finally sold it, and my last race, (driving for the new owner) was against a '68 Camaro/427 Super Gas car I'd seen go 8.70s at the track. I know it didn't go that fast on the street though, we lost by half a fender. :cool:

BTW, check here for parts: http://www.drag.race-cars.com/partbd/wwwboard.htm

[Rickracer]

....it would be a lot more consistant (and possibly quicker) with a torqueflite and the right converter. I had a T5 in my truck for a while, OD is great, but the T5 wouldn't hold up. When I broke it the third time, I went to a 700R4 with a 2800 lockup converter. :cool:

[Instigator]

that is my last resort and I'm not there yet

plus i figure for a good torqueflight, convertor and everything else needed to switch, I could do the 5 speed
there's a cmpany called I think Kiesler (??) that has a mopar 5 speed kit

[sho305]

The price and selection of 5 speeds for Mustangs has gotten quite good now, if that helps at all.

[Rickracer]

I've seen some Nashs reasonable in there, even a Lenco or two. Have you checked with Stick Only? They do conversions like "slick shifting" trannys for drag racing. I've heard they take every other tooth off the synchros or something like that, to make them more shiftable at high RPMs. The style of pressure plate you use can affect the shift quality at high Rs too. Look into a CenterForce. :cool:

[B.Leonard]

Those are great stories, bring'n back the memories :D

Gator what disk are you running in the Bee? A lightweight clutch disk will help a lot. The slick shifting thing Rick mentioned works good but doesn't last very long if you drive it alot.

I'd leave it 4spd for fun, drag is all auto. I have a full manual auto w/ 10" converter in my Galaxie and it's just plain boring. I wish it was 4spd :D

-BL

[eautosales]

stay away from a lenco for street use to much to maintain
one of my best friends runs a pro mod with a blown alky hemi
he only runs the lenco at big events
the rest of the time he runs a pro built turbo 400
& ive seen him destroy 3 of them

[Instigator]

Rick/BL, 3 clutches/pressure plates, the last two Center Force ($320. per)
All new/rebuilt shift and clutch linkage/bushings
motor is tied down
And I've been through the innards of the box it self

Yes, the slick shift takes every other tooth off the synchros
I have the Chrysler books here to tell me how to do it
But, I am told that you then "MUST" power shift every time!
Tuff to get away with on the street

What happens now is, it won't release under power. you have to lift.

I don't want a Lenco race transmission
The 5 speed I mentioned is a regular trans, basically a 4 speed w/a over drive
That wolud be nice for gas especially after I go to 4.33's

I just want to be able to bang gears!!
I bought this specific car cause it was a stick car

But-------, oh well, sooner or later I'll figure it out :D
It's ina barn now and I don't have the money anyhow.
The frustrating part is not being able to find anybody that can help. (see any similarities here?)
Gary
Here's a shot of the subject in question

[Rickracer]

...now that I think about it, the Centerforce is supposed to have more holding pressure the higher the rpms are. That would tend to exacerbate the problem. I know there is a difference in the way a Borg & Beck, a Long style, and a Diaphragm style pressure plate operate. It's been so long since I fooled with any serious stick stuff I don't remember what's what, and never fooled too much with Mopars anyway. I had a '60 Dart GTS once with a 340. It was a sweet driving car, but I twisted it up too high one night, and I thought I bent some valves, didn't have the money to fix it, and traded it for a car trailer. The guy was driving it a couple of days later. It had blown both head gaskets, and that was all. :confused: :confused: :confused: :mad: The only other thing I could think of is that the synchros are locked too tightly together with that much force on them? What kind of gear lube are you using? I don't know how much difference that would make, but I've had really good luck with 10W40 full synthetic in some trannies that were supposed to have ATF in them.

[sho305]

I drove a rock crusher behind a stout small block. It was unreal. You could just ram it into first at idle and the car would go, no grinding, with no clutch. Had this short Hurst Indy shifter that was 1" travel from a gear to N, and 1" side to side, about 3/16" steel frame on the tranny for it. Had a big white ball I wish I had now. You just hit it hard and it would shift nomatter what. That motor only ran up to about 6500 though.

Has to be an easy way though, another guy had a '69 Boss 302, and he shifted first-second at 8,000 and the rest at 7000-7500rpm. He hit the 12s on small slicks and mostly stock motor but for the cam and headers. Took lots of rides with him speed shifting every gear with 5.13 rear and a wide ratio Ford Toploader! Could just break 100mph with it. Was fun, as with the street tires it did not hook until in fourth some time:D :D :D That shifter went a mile between gears, think it was a typical hurst. The guy was good.

I thought the big deal with Centerforce was that it used centrifugal force to hold better at high rpm without more pedal resistance?

[Rickracer]

At high RPMs it can make it more difficult to shift. Ever heard of a ClutchFlite, or a Clutch Turbo? I was bound and determined to go to one of them after trashing 3 converters in a row, then I came to my senses and spent a few more dollars for a specially built high stall converter from JW Performance Transmissions. :cool:

[B.Leonard]

That sounds to me like the clutch is not disengaging enough to take the load off the gears.

I've heard of cutting the ignition for a split second instead of using the clutch at all for all out drag, but that may have been with bikes. That provides enough "slack" for the gears to be disangaged/engaged.

-BL

[Jason Huber]

...on the street, that is!;) Lencos, Libertys, Jerichos and that stuff is best left to its intended purpose IMO... Ronny Sox or Dyno Don could probably make em' work on the street, but... :D That's a nice lookin' B-Body you got there! Hope you get your clutch-woes sorted...:D Ever' think about a hydraulic conversion??

[eautosales]

i can put youin touch with a mopar guru that has anything you need to fix your problem if your interested let me know
he is an old shool mopar drag racer/ shop owner & he has everything from small blocks to hemis & he is a wealth of knowledge

[Rickracer]

The resources available on/through this board are nothing short of absolutely amazing. :cool:

[Instigator]

Let's see, have tried 90 weight and ATF with no change.

Yes, I consider'd the hydraulic conversion, just read about it and was quite geeked. Then I realized, all that doing is pushing the pressure plate fingers in.
I can do that with what I've got.

eautosales, I'll love you for ever if you do :)
Don't have the $ to invest right now, but can in a short period if I find some body that can help me.
Very frustrating.
You don't know how many experts (over the years!) have told me to give up and put an matic in it!
Scuse me but, F(&K YOU!

e, get a hold of me via puter, phone or what ever. I'm on it!

RR, you are right about the resources on this board. That's why I ask so many non boating related questions.
You guys rock, thanks to every body!
Gary

[sho305]

I have this Laser, a Mitsubeesee;) And they have big shifting problems to the point of recommending a rebuild every 30k miles.

Mine was real notchy shifting, and would like to snick if I shifted slow(?) So I got some fresh synthetic blend, figured it was new fluid anyway. Pulled the plug and mineral spirits came a blasting out of there! I put the new 80/90 in there and it shifted much smoother, but would not want to go in at high rpms slightly worse. I wanted it to last so I did not care. I read that light fluid just wears to synchros faster and causes them to grab harder....ok for racing.

Oh, and the hot setup for these was to use the redline fluid.

[eautosales]

let me know if you want me to talk to him, or if you want to call him either way is cool
xsvector@aol.com

[Instigator]

mail and thanx!
Gary

[eautosales]

i talked to my mopar friend :)
he said your tranny can do what you want but it all depends on what your lookin to do with the car
if you want to drag he has a lenco for sale 4spd for 4500
or a full race auto 727 with tran brake fresh rebuild & steel
spage converter for 1600
he said do not use a m-22 a big block mopar has way to much torq & will destroy it
on the a-833 if you modify the synchros it is a drag only tranny & he has one already done
if you want to stay with the a-833 4 spd it is all in the clutch set up you need to run a ford long style pressure plate
call him he will give you set up info & i guess pressure plate adjustment is the KEY
& if you want to run the a-833 a 4 barrel & a hi rise will give you
more hp with the stick he said the ft 2 carbs are closing every time you shift so a single 4 is more practical, i hope this sheds a little light on the subject
but call him he will help
best times 11 ta 5

JOHN;):D

[eautosales]

i left ya his phone # in your scream mail

[daytrader]

hey my friend, sell cars for a living, 3.8 ford runs good but can have head gasket problems, 3800 gm motor is usally a good motor, Bonnes are excellent value for the money, get 25 mpg with OD automatic trans., rice burners usally run forever but expensive to repair, pay up to buy them too, stay away from nissans, all kinds of stupid electrical trouble,3.0 tauraus is ok, after 92 or so have better trannys, can buy them cheap, just my 1/2 cents worth. Car salesman, stock trader, goin broke fast, good luck,

[Instigator]

Thanks, I'll call him. Not givin up ion the 6 pack though;)

Daytrader, you're late! I already bought a SSEi and blew it up:eek:

[eautosales]

six packs are cool i would not give em up id rather loose a little time off my et 6 packs rock me & my buddy put together a polara last summer for a local demo derby with a 440 a tunnel ram and dual 4 barrels .ill see if i can dig up a pic
what a sight a 600hp demo car:D