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Mark75H
01-11-2003, 10:15 PM
Let's discuss the top tunnel hull makers from Angelo Molinari up to today.

In the early 1960's Angelo converged the catamaran with the Sea Sled and hydroplane shapes and came up with something more closely resembling modern racing tunnel hulls that anyone else.

Catamarans were the most popular marathon race boat in the US in the late 50's and early 60's. These were basically twin hulls joined by a single deck. Even at high speed they were not designed to be very aerodynamic and basically ran "wet." When designed for racing the hulls were kept narrow and the wide overall shape could carry a large fuel load and maintain high speed even in rough water. Their one draw back was they did not do well when set up with a single engine.

Sea Sleds trace their lineage back to a fellow named Hickman and had been tried in sizes from about 10 to 50 feet. These were basically an inverted V shape; as if you cut a boat in half down the center front to back and spliced it back together with the outsides joined at the center and flat sides on the outside. Pete De Lactner's Mustangs, Switzer's Shooting Stars and a few others are close relatives of the Hickman Sea Sled. Over in England the makers of Watermota outboards built a Sea Sled derivitive and cleaned up with their "Speed Model" racing model back in the 1930 time frame. The British DAB racing boats from the same era may have been based on Sea Sleds as well. A very fast Sea Sled uses a little bit of "surface effect" compressed air as the concave bow funnels air down to the more or less flat bottom at the transom.

Hydroplanes, particularly three point hydros modeled after the propriding Unlimiteds use a flat bottom and two sponsons forward that hold the front of the flat bottom off the water even in bow down attitude. Sponsons normally have a more or less regular outside chine line, but are square where they meet the rest of the hull. Usually the sponsons extend no more than 25% to 30% from the bow.

Unlike other contemporary designs (Switzer Shooting Star and Carlson semi tunnel) Molinari extened the sponsons themselves the full length of the boat all the way to the back. Switzer had another racing catamaran, know now as the Wing, but the Wing used a step in the length of each hull and a movable flap that closed off the back of the tunnel for more lift making the Wing a cross between a "four point" hydro and a Sea Sled. The Wing's power to weight ratio was much lower than the new light weight design of Angelo Molinari as well.

Angelo's son Renato was not the first one to enter a Molinari tunnel hull in a race, rather two Molinari customers named Rasini showed up at a race in France with one of the first ones.

Everyone from Ron Jones and the De Silva brothers on the west coast to Schulze in Austria was soon copying the full tunnel hull shape.

Who else shaped this revolution?

Tom Stanley
01-11-2003, 11:05 PM
Seebold of course has been the most influential since Molinari. My buddy Lee says his record setting one rides like a Cadillac compared to his others. Well built too. I was never clear how much BeBe had to do with them?

Cappellini too has to be the leading current builder.

I owned a Molinari and a Burgess and thought they were both great.

Then there was Ron Del Rosa whose boats were as nice as furniture, and Tom Arenstad from Colorado, with the looong afterplanes.

Powercat
01-12-2003, 04:51 PM
Sam:
This is something I would like to hear a
definitive answer to. Since Powercat moved away from performance boat designs after the fire of 1966 and I lost touch with "what was going on" in 1968 thanks to my 2 year extended cruise of beautiful Southeast Asia courtesy of Uncle Sam, when and how did the transition to the "true tunnel" come about? I like your analogy that a true tunnel is more like an extended sponson
hydro than it is like a catamaran. It seems odd that this concept came "out of
the blue" from Europe. . The Switzer and other "wing effect" designs really would not lead from catamaran to tunnel.
While very creditable on their own its a different design avenue alltogether. Seems there is a missing link somewere...
Danny Leger

Mark75H
01-12-2003, 05:48 PM
It had already started before the fire. About 1963 Angelo Molinari was squaring off the insides of his catamarans to make them corner sharper. At the Aix-les-Bains, France marathon in 1964 the Molinari tunnel hull the Rasini brothers showed up with was judged to be so radical it was placed in "Experimental" class so they could not claim any of the trophies or prize money. So in 1964 they were very very new. I'd be more than happy to give someone else credit or partial credit if hard evidence comes up.

It may have been a progression on Molinari catamarans from 1960 to 64, I have no idea. It may be that Molinari knew of the Switzer Shooting Star shape, Switzer Wing shape and Carlson semi tunnel hull shape and decided none of them were optimal. It would be wonderful to read a first hand interview.

In Europe there were many copies of the Molinari light weight full sponson tunnel hull in the 1965-66 time frame. It took a bit longer for them to show up in the US.

Trivia Question # 1:
Anyone (besides Helmetguru) know who built the first tunnel hull in the US?

Trivia Question #2:
When was the term "tunnel hull" first used and by whom?

KEVIN NICHOLS
01-12-2003, 09:03 PM
what about david lee he's rite here in alabama

MN4V
01-12-2003, 09:16 PM
Trivia Question # 1:
Anyone (besides Helmetguru) know who built the first tunnel hull in the US?

I'm not sure but didnt Allan Stinson have something to do with the first tunnel hull.
Mark Nelson

Backfire
01-12-2003, 11:09 PM
Not a contender for tunnel honors, just a strange hull, Arkansas Traveler in Little Rock had a designer named Hadley. He brought over a new hull with twin Mercs-'63-'64 and tested at our place. It had a tunnel looking at the stern, but was a vee in the front. I should have a picture somewhere. I think it was 17' long. It never did go into production, I only saw one boat. Not too long after that they sold the company to Stanray and moved to Danville, IL. I believe Hadley, 80 something years old lives in Houston or Texas somewhere. He has been a boat designer a long time and I believe did some work for the Navy.
Let's see, Anthony made a 3 point, Glassmagic reverse 3 point, Hydrodyne-nope, Glastron licenced Molinari, Kober Kat?
Backfire ;)

Mark75H
01-12-2003, 11:54 PM
Nope, not Kober either.

Neither Mr. Lee nor Mr. Stinson were involved. Both of them would be considered newcomers to raceboat building compared to the shop that built the first tunnel hull in the US.

helmetguru
01-13-2003, 12:32 AM
i guess i'll take it s a compliment that i'm not allowed to give away the goodies.

the Sea-Sled was built in 57 i think by Fisher and Pierce...

Ray Leger's Powercats and Ron Jones did alot with tunnel design as well in the same era.

Deiter Schulze was already building boats in Austria and integrating the Konig motors onto his little tunnels about the same time Angelo was developing his tunnel boat at Lake Como.

"il catamarano" first appeared outside Scuderia Molinari in 1962.

the first highest result for a tunnel hull in competition was the "torrigia" built in Italy by Geremia Cetti from Como, finished top 5 in Rouen in 64

The first Molinari Tunnel Hull appeared in it's first major endurance race in Rouen in 65, then later that year in Paris for the 6 hour but had little success. Renato showed up with the boat next year and did much better. three were powered by Mercurys, two by Rover gas turbines with merc stern drives, those two had no accelleration but were scary fast.

the three merc boats were driven by Roy Ridgell - Bill Sirois, Carlo - Enrico Rasini, and Renato - Cesare. Renato - Cesare won the 65 Paris event. James Beard, the future building of Cougar hulls nose dove his Shead designed v bottom.

Deiter Schulze imported his boat in 66 and had a major advantage over the wings, it could turn inside them by a mile, he shipped it New Jersey in peices, assembled it, bought a car for $200 then drove to Lake Havasu. He took fourth and won the single engine class. My dad owned three Schulze Hydro Cats.

alot has passed under the bridge with tunnel boats since all this but the design and theory remains the same, lightweight cornering ability make it special. I think two people are owed the greatest recognition for the modern tunnel boat, Dave Burgess and Scuderia Molinari.

You can look at any boat on the water today and the design cues are straight Burgess. The theory is straight Molinari. Those are facts you can't argue with.

tunnel boats are the best but with the speeds now they are gettin behind the times. Boats are too strong and heavy and the cockpits need redesigning, the WALL that the driver has on either side of him should be rounded off a big for deflection. i like the Lee boat, easily the safest on the water today, were it not for technical problems, Jason Campbell would have won three or four races this year.

there have been alot of cool boats over the years, Burgess, Seebold, Hodges, Molinari, Scotti, Cougar, Lee, Hoffman, Barracuda, Lynx, DAC, Gardin, Velden, Jeanneau, Pugh, Bullett, Gran Prix, Schulze, Moore, Mollgaard, Furnell, and others i'm sure.

thats what i think.

Powercat
01-13-2003, 02:37 PM
The refinements to the current designs have taken all the best
concepts of the earlier boat types and produced what now has
to be the ultimate performance machine...
......
Danny

BK
01-13-2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by helmetguru
Boats are too strong and heavy and the cockpits need redesigning, the WALL that the driver has on either side of him should be rounded off a big for deflection.


Exactly. None of the current capsules built today, would be able to endure a flat panel direct t-bone. Brad has long wanted to build a cockpit with radiused sides for deflection in these rare, but costly, crashes.

The "Blackbird" comes closeest to this idea.

T2x
01-13-2003, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by Mark75H
Nope, not Kober either.

Neither Mr. Lee nor Mr. Stinson were involved. Both of them would be considered newcomers to raceboat building compared to the shop that built the first tunnel hull in the US.

Don Aronow.....built the first Glass tunnel...The Magnum Missile

Ron Jones......built the first Wooden one...followed very quickly by Sidewinder and John McCall

Bill Petty built the first Aluminum one....The Petty Craft

These are just guesses of course:p

T2x

Mark75H
01-13-2003, 09:54 PM
Deiter Schulze imported his boat in 66 and had a major advantage over the wings, it could turn inside them by a mile, he shipped it New Jersey in peices, assembled it, bought a car for $200 then drove to Lake Havasu. He took fourth and won the single engine class.

This is the boat I was referring to.

Buddy has given away a good clue to the builder. I had not heard that Schulze sent the wood over before he came, I'd assumed it was built from wood bought by the shop in NJ, since they certainly had plenty of good boat building wood there. I've also heard conflicting versions of whether Schulze built it, or it was built for him before he arrived. I guess we could still call the fellow whose shop it was and ask.

When I was asking another fellow some other details on the phone one day he volunteered that he had prepped and installed the motor on that boat. Anyone know where Deiter Schulze stopped and picked up his motor along the way to Arizona and who this other guy is?

Schulze left with more than just the prize money and the proceeds of selling that boat...he also had orders for more tunnel hulls. Good thing he didn't get mugged!:cool:

Buddy was the boat/motor/trailer/car sold as a package deal or did Deiter split them up? Another question I don't know the answer to would be where the boats Deiter took orders for built in NJ by the same shop or by Deiter?

UPDATE: 6/1/03

Deiter did build the boat there himself. People who saw him do it were stunned that he built it right on the floor........not on a table or jig........and that it turned out flat and true.

Orders were taken on future copies to be built at the shop in NJ, but the whole thing fell through. Probably taxes and stuff.

This boat wasn't the last tunnel hull to come out of that shop, though.

MN4V
01-13-2003, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by Mark75H ds
Another question I don't know the answer to would be where the boats Deiter took orders for built in NJ by the same shop or by Deiter? [/B]
Thats why we dont know the answer. The boat was built in
New Jersey!
MN

T2x
01-14-2003, 11:48 AM
To my knowledge two may been built......one a single the other a twin engine. The twin (new) wound up in the hands of Bob Meyer who owned Linden Airport in NJ and was involved in Dieter's project. Bob's shop in an airport hanger is most likely where Dieter would have built the boats, but I was told the boats came over from Austria completed. I saw the boat originally in 1966 and it was not competitive in the Hudson River races (Albany-NY and Kingston and Nyack Regattas because the boat was absolutely useless in any kind of a ground swell. As a result my first impression of tunnel hulls was not very good since I was blowing it off with a 16 foot Glastron factory race Vee bottom.......Man! did that perception change.

I believe the single became the plug for Aronow.

One final note............two years later, I'm racing in the Milwaukee-Chicago-Milwaukee race following Chet Strickland in an aluminum Petty Craft derivation of the Schultz.......with twin Merc Stacker power. I'm in an 18' Eltro with twin GT-115 E'rudes on the back (I lost my way for a season, what can I tell ya???)........ Strickland eases by me as we start the race and head south out of Milwaukee harbor. The water is as flat as a board. (This changed dramatically later). On the horizon a black line appears leading to the tail of a Great Lakes ore ship. The wake is even and about 8 feet high. Strickland is serenading me with the high C over C wail coming out of his motors and pulls a lead of about 50 yards. As he approached the wake....He never backed off...and the bow never lifted. The Petty Craft inserted into the wave ("stuffed" would not be as true a characterization as "inserted")at about 75 mph. The last things to enter were the stacks which went immediately silent.........

I launched ("expertly" he modestly added ;) ) on wave one, and while vaulting to wave three, looked down from about 12 feet in the air at the soaked and bedraggled Chet Strickland, motors akimbo, stacks torn off. At that point, I still clung to the notion that tunnels were a "flash in the pan"....... so did Ron Hill who was also in the race in his trusty 17 vee Glastron.

T2x

sho305
01-14-2003, 01:50 PM
TX2, that was a great story! You guys sure got hairy in those races!:eek: :D

helmetguru
01-14-2003, 05:04 PM
that is a great story, it probably looked alot like the second plane flying into the world trade center from your vantage point.

i was talking to an ex f1 world champ last nite on the phone and related a cool "Wizard" story, he said when he drove it at Chatfeild's test lake ( gravel pit ) he was going about 40, hit the gas and it lifted the front right sponson off the water. he said it was freaky. this is the same guy who was shocked to hear how smooth somebodys boat was running and commented "thats boring you need an ill handling monster"...i guess thats what separates world champions from back markers.

after deiter schulze sold his boat to an american for some good coin, he visited the Switzer Wing factory and forged a deal for them to build his cats under license and vice versa but nothing ever came out of it.

anyone remember Starflite, Gerry Walin and 130.929 mph in 1966??

T2x
01-14-2003, 05:48 PM
Buddy:

That's interesting because the race boat that Bob Meyer had immediately before the Schultz was a twin engine (JJ class)16' VEE BOTTOM Switzer Shooting Star....Off white with Gold Metalflake trim. Perhaps it was Bob who introduced Dieter to the Switzer Brothers?????

The story continues to "flesh out" methinks.

I didn't identify those hulls as the first tunnel boats built in America for obvious reasons.........trick question.....and I saw the dual engine boat quite a few times.

Frankly the Schultz's were "dated" as soon as Angelo Molinari got his act together.......There was a lot of that in those days.

T2x

helmetguru
01-14-2003, 05:56 PM
the first molinaris looked more like magnum missiles than the later tunnel boats they would become. while they were clearly cats and not deep vees they still had a long way to evolve. the tunnel boat bottom evolved to what it is today in 1966 if you think about it, only some of the materials have changed.

i was posed an interesting point last nite: can you go to a car dealership and buy a monte carlo, taurus, or stratus with a carb on the motor? i think not. the nascar boys are still running 50's technology with the motors sans restrictor plates at two tracks. with all the technology available they figured out a long time ago that if you keep it simple you have a good show. f1, highly technical computer controlled, ****ty racing, CART, same thing, IRL not so bad, they have good racing, F1 boats?? efi motors, rev limiters, crazy rules and parades.

not sure who introduced deiter to switzer but he ended up at their shop. i could probably find out but your guess is as good as mine.

T2x
01-14-2003, 06:41 PM
I saw two of those early non cockpit Molinaris. One is the boat that, as it flipped, took Gary Garbrecht out of race boats for life. The other belongs (belonged?) to Tom Wenstadt ex Mercury engineer, now with Four Winns (Who designed the surface Drives for our 4 engine 48' Jesse James Superboat)....... He kept that "antique" well into the 80's.

T2x

Mark75H
01-14-2003, 06:55 PM
Schulze's boat was built in Sid and Bob Urkesty's "Sid-Son" shop; then hauled to Ohio where Jon Culver rigged it for him.

sho305
01-14-2003, 07:10 PM
I can't take nascar anymore. It just seems like wwf and has little to do with real cars on the street; and I question if it is racing anymore as anybody can knock out the guy infront of them. I want racing, not a show or I'd go see a movie. I like the trans am type racing with real cars, or ralley. I think you use real cars and make them compete, or use racing cars with simple restrictions, like displacement and tire size and let technology rule. That way you get something out of it. Just IMHO.

What did that tunnel bottom look like in 1966?

T2x
01-14-2003, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by Mark75H
Schulze's boat was built in Sid and Bob Urkesty's "Sid-Son" shop; then hauled to Ohio where Jon Culver rigged it for him.

Was it Sid-son or just plain old Sidcraft back then?

Sid-son later built a tunnel for Sutphen..........which raced in the northeast OPC circuit during the early 70's........ traditional race cockpit and cowling...kind of like a full tunnel molinari....circa 1969.

T2x

Mark75H
01-14-2003, 07:46 PM
Sid-Son.

Mickey was out of it by then and it was just Sid and Bob.

If you recall, John Schubert drove a Sid-Son tunnel, too.

I'm trying to get ahold of Bob if I can, to ask him the details directly, since he was there.

helmetguru
01-14-2003, 08:02 PM
the tunnels were deeper because of the courses they raced on in europe, narrow pads, and steeper pad angles were the way to keep them on the water. the basic design is the same now as it was then, the theory of packing air only works one way.

sho305
01-14-2003, 11:19 PM
This history section is so great; thanks to all of you guys that post here!!!

stang
01-14-2003, 11:48 PM
this is a good one who built the wood jesse james ?? I know i worked on the boat, 1 clue it was built in S.C.

Ron Hill
01-14-2003, 11:50 PM
T2X:

Seebold and me are both afraid of heights...Oh, we fly but we don't like it. I honestly recall that wave in Milwaukee being like twenty foot high...I slowed donw so much to cross it that it passed me up again. I was like a surfer on the crest. That wave scared the crap out of me...it was so high, I thought I was going to have a "PANIC ATTACK". I figured I was going to die right there in the damn middle of Lake Michigan. Yes, the water was smooth to there.....

They run the Catalina Steamship right across in front of the skiers in the Catalina Ski Race and I've seen skiers go 20 feet in the air behind like 30 Fountains...


Anybody remember the Crusader Tunnels? Dick Sherrer had them built, Faster than anything Mercury had at Lake X one Winter....Tim Rasmussen built them for Dick...one fo the first tunnels with a step in the pad. Tim had worked for Ron Jones. Built maybe five or six for Sherrer. Maybe more counting SJ hulls. Tim also built the "plugs", I was told, for the original Scaarbs...

Tim helped us out on the only tunnel we ever built... My tunnel was built in 1971 and looked like a 1973 Molinari.

Ron Hill
01-14-2003, 11:51 PM
Wood Jesse James? I'll guess George Linder.

stang
01-14-2003, 11:53 PM
no he designed it good guess

Ron Hill
01-15-2003, 12:11 AM
Harold Eis won Havasu in the early years and his boat's brand was Style Craft, I think. The difference from Harold's boat and a "True" Style Craft is that Harold or he had someone do it, had in fact cut the tunnel walls square and put little strakes on the rounded outside runner. He had an adjustable flap in the tunnel and also had manual "power trim" Manuel meaning for kick out you pumped the hydralics and the engines trimmed out for trim in you pulled two srtings and released the hydralic pressure...

Harold never went out of his way to advertise his secrets, but I snooped at all and every boat at these races. I have to be honest, the first Schulz Boot I ever saw, I was totally schocked to not see a "FLAT BOTTOM"...in fact there was NO BOTTOM. I figured a big boat needed a big, wide, flat bottom. After seeing Dieter's 1966 hull, I went home talking to myself.

A triple Russ Hill/Merc Rayson had won overall (1966 Havasu)....but Schulz had been impressive.

Someone would have to had the dates of the "Ice man's" design changes....but, I'd call his boat a true tunnel not of the Power Cat/Style Craft mold..

We discussed , with Dieter in Paris, 1967, about flying to California and building some boats in our garage...but shiping to the west took to long via boat...My 1967 500 CC Schulze was send to Dick O'Dea's shop where I rigged it on the was to Valleyfield and the John Ward Trophy Race... Dieter also competed in that race with his 500. Dieter and Dieter Konig were good friends..or it appeared that way...Dieter Schulze won the qualifier. Dieter Konig told me the Smith Prop numbers, we had one like it in our prop box...Harry Added nitro and we beat Schulze in the finals...Hauenstein was second.

helmetguru
01-15-2003, 12:17 AM
no clue on the jesse james offshore boat but wasn't that the same boat that the lavin brothers crashed and one of them was killed?

let's see if anyone can answer this one: what year was the first pickle fork tunnel boat raced in the US and who raced it, also who coined the phrase "picklefork"?

helmetguru
01-15-2003, 12:29 AM
talk about a race site!

helmetguru
01-15-2003, 12:32 AM
i found this shot and thought yall would like it, one of the first molinaris at paris.

helmetguru
01-15-2003, 12:45 AM
ted had his hands full with this one but he finished the race.

helmetguru
01-15-2003, 12:48 AM
here's a good shot of a rotary uncovered.

hydro-cat
01-15-2003, 12:53 AM
1973 Schulze Hydro-Cat. Everything is origianal. Has only been in the water 5 times, 3 of them in the last 6 months.

hydro-cat
01-15-2003, 12:57 AM
One of the decals on the boat.

helmetguru
01-15-2003, 12:58 AM
that is the coolest thing i've ever seen, a perfect schulze hydro cat...WHY would you put that thing on the water!!! take no chances, immediately put it in a lucite case and just look at it!!

VERY COOL, I thought the 82 Hodges Bacardi Rum boat we're restoring was cool but this is awesome..do you have the complete history of the boat?

helmetguru
01-15-2003, 01:00 AM
is the schulze for sale?

hydro-cat
01-15-2003, 01:06 AM
Here's another decal on the front of the boat.

T2x
01-15-2003, 08:42 AM
There were three Jesse James offshore race cats. The first was a Linder designed 30' Chris Cat, which was a slightly modified Shadow Cat developed by Linder and Rich Luhrs.

The second two Jesse James Cats, the 35 and the 48, were built by Conquest Marine, using wood and fibreglass composites. Conquest was owned by Rich Luhrs. Most Conquest boats were built at Ken Adam's Quest Marine shops ( there were 3) in South Carolina for construction of the George Linder Designs. Ken is to this day one of the best wood boat craftsman in the World. The 35 footer is the one in which Mark Lavin was tragically killed off of Key West in 1986. The 48 was built after Mark's death and featured State of the art construction and Safety technology. That safety technology is the basis for the Lavin Foundation cockpit and safety standards still in use today.

Conquest, along with Cougar, was at the top of the heap in Cat design in the mid 80's (the spot now occupied by Skater) but Mark Lavin's death took the steam out of the effort. My favorite Conquest was the 32' Rolling Thunder which featured four 2 liter T-3's across the transom. Aside from extended shafts and spacers, they were stock IOGP engines right down to the SSM's.

I was always an outboard guy at heart.

T2x.................(AKA Rich Luhrs)

stang
01-15-2003, 09:11 AM
Kenny Adams is right , he was one of my best friends in the world , i loved that guy like my dad . it was a sad day when mark got killed right before the saftey cells dam shame . i worked on the two boats you are talking about Rolling thunder also , kenny use to keep my barrcuda up to date on the bottom saftey cell install , lost touch with him due to being in the U.S. Navy. i pray he is doing fine today

BK
01-15-2003, 09:30 AM
That Schulze is definately museum quality! Like stepping back in time.

I heard that a guy from Michigan was collecting as many 70 era tunnels he could find about 4 years ago -- the idea was to build a museum to showcase them. There was an old Molinari sitting in a yard in Abilene (might have been one of Alan Yaw's?) -- I think he may have picked that one up too.

A "Tunnel Boat History Museum"; That would be cool. :)

BK
01-15-2003, 09:32 AM
Here's one of the first pickle forks I ever saw...

1970 Havasu Classic:

Ron Hill
01-15-2003, 12:05 PM
The first "pickle Fork" hydro was built by Joe Swift. He was trying to kep his C-D-F-X hydro from blowing over. The second was DeSilva. They tied the two forks together with a piece of wood, as a result they got the name "Flying Slingshots". Because they still blew over and when they were going over they looked like a big slingshot. DeSilva worked pretty well, the problem was the angle of the sponson. When you hit a wave, the water was funneled into the driver's face.

I think Ron Jones called them pickle forks first. Then his hydros with the driver's seat between the forks, he actually called them "Salad Forks".. That name never seemed to stick.
Renato's Molinari win in Paris with a pickle fork tunnel started the modern ear which has lasted for about 25 years.

Mark75H
01-15-2003, 06:49 PM
Before the term picklefork was used, they were called "forklifts" or "lazy dogs"

helmetguru
01-15-2003, 07:18 PM
i think the leader of lap one in paris in 67 was karl bornhauser in a molinari tunnel powered by a porsche but he sank.

joe swifts boats were called "Atomic", like "Atomic A", didnt call them "wetbacks"??

Ron Hill
01-16-2003, 12:32 AM
As far as I know, Swift never called his pickle fork anything. He did NOT call them Atomic...that was the second generation of Swift Hydros...
Lowell Habberman, who owned the first DeSilva "Flying Slingshot", is who we credited the name "Flying Slingshot"...

Ron Hill
01-16-2003, 12:38 AM
Helmet:

You posted that picture of Ted May in Paris 1968...Handsful, hell we should have gotten second. When I drove the boat I went behind several barges one lap and the didn't score us. McCunes from Denver got second...Had a lap mattered Ted and I would have make a stink...No power trim, only a water ballast tank.

The Berghauer Boys, Denny and Dewey drove the third OMC Schulze that year. Dieter's co driver nose dove where Ted did the wheeel stand.. That was the last year the barge traffic, no 1970 was the last year of the barge traffic during the race.

But Mercury won, Johnson second, Evinrude third.. We only won a bottle of wine for 1st, 2nd or third..

helmetguru
01-16-2003, 12:48 AM
i know in the 50's had a three pointer named "lazy dog" if thats what you're talking about, how specific do you want me to get??

pickleforks were orginally called "bow claws" but ron jones elected for pickleforks, there was even a tandem wing boat built by jones that phil rolla ( rolla props ) and angelo molinari bought and were going to speed record it but it never materialized.

Ron Hill
01-16-2003, 01:00 AM
Going back to 1967, Schulze had two twins and two singles.

McCune from Dever had one twin and one single. Jimbo drove one signle and Dieter drove the other. As I recall, Dieters twin blew the inside tunnel wall out early in the race, but was fast. Mac McCune got in wreck before the race got going and totaled the second twin. Jimbo was leading single easily and Melinda McCune was like fourth Single when the pitted for fuel. I think, Mac McCune got in for Melinda and tried to catch Jimbo and blew over. Jimbo nosed in and was sort of hurt but made it back to the pits. Where Ted May took over for the Single win.

At Parker, 1968, they repaired (OMC) the twin schultz and bought another new one...Ted had an OMC four point...I had the white DeSilva wing (169 as seen on Babbittdesign.com.

Neither Schulze was as fast as the OMC Hydros, Deiter's old boat was having the same trouble we were having and that was water in the foam rubber around the cowling...the added speed broke (Split) thw waterlines...plus they had the "CLUB FEET".

As Iw as limping back to the pits on one engine, Dewey Berghauer came along and nosedove crossing my wake. He took the dash out of the new twin Schulze, ripped his Gentex jacket off and was knock unconscience, I saw him and turned around just in time to see him going under water and he was OUT. I dove out of my boat and grabbed a hold of him and held him up...No question in my mind that he would have drown...and started coming to and telling me he was "in schock", I stayed with him until the patrol came (about 5or 10 minutes later), then rode to the ambulance with him... Then, deciding he was OK, I had the patrol boat take me back to my boat.

By then, the engine had dried out and it ran good. But kept quitting. We ended up third outboard...about 27th overall...

I mentioned Dave Severson, who started Hot Boat and Power Boat, (In another post)... After Parker, Dave had introduced me to a guy named Bill Fauntlaroy who had wanted to make life jackets...(My mom made mine)...I talked to Bill over the phone and went to his auto upholdsery shop for measurements and he made me a life jacket (Now known as Lifeline)...I talked to the Berghauer boys about my new jacket and they ordered two... I delivered the two jacket to Milwaukee for them to use in the Milwaukee to Chicago race... I tested my jacket, to see it it would float me on my back, like it was designed to do, at OMC's plant....After the race, I called Bill and told him the jackets worked and he could use my word...

Just a little side bar to history folks...This weekend I try and post some picture of the Berghauer Schulze.....

hydro-cat
01-16-2003, 01:18 AM
Don't know if this really means anything. But, my Schulze came from Denver in 1973. Not sure of who. Could find out for sure from the guy that I bought it from. (Branson, Mo.):)

BK
01-16-2003, 12:11 PM
I still have the bottle of champagne that Ted May and Roger Johnson got for winning the Parker Nine Hour Enduro (Div II) in 1985. I have the hat too.


They actually got a case of champagne...and gave me a bottle too, because I was their scorekeeper.....

They were both very considerate guys who always took care of their scorer....they know that NINE hours is a LONG time to sit in the cold bleachers and score every lap! :D

T2x
01-16-2003, 12:17 PM
As long as there seems to be no limits to this minutiae.........on pickle forks..................

There was a 14' flat bottom Allison/merc 650 running out of Maryland in 1964/65 called "Super Pickle".................

What that has to do with this topic...............I have no idea.

T2x

helmetguru
01-16-2003, 04:44 PM
as far as "pickleforks" go, ron jones coined that phrase. the design can be traced back a long way. it depends on the adaptation. bob switzer's wings in 61 were basically pickleforks, a split hull design with a flat section in the middle to trap air and generate lift. they did some tweaking on the Fox River and had to overcome some air compressoin problems. They fitted a flap over a 8 inch hole between the two running surfaces in the back and it "hovered" at speed, meaning they got it off the water. it ran 120mph.

A Prout cat with pickleforks also raced in 1960. the origination of the pickelfork powered cat actually doesnt come from America or Italy, but the Prouts from the UK who built a powered cat sail boat, and later adapted the design for racing. This was called the Panther 14. It was driven by "Dimitrious" and he was one of only 38 of 70 finishers at Paris. The turning ability is what made him able to finish 4th. This is one of the first uses of the picklefork in competition that i know of.

Mark75H
01-16-2003, 04:54 PM
I keep hearing the 120, 125 and higher numbers claimed for Switzer Wings........but even with 3 BP stackers the best official 2 way average anyone ever did with one was 118 and change. Makes me a little suspicious of those claims.

Ron Hill
01-16-2003, 05:37 PM
For Parker when OMC first had 100 inch V-4 motors, we had Ernie Trkel (Spelled wrong) "Black Coffin" Switzer. We tested every weekend in February at Havasu Springs. Ray Nydahl built the engines....My DeSilva (White) which actualy led the outboards, would go 92 mph. Ray was the test driver on the "black Coffin" and he ran and ran and ran trying to see 100 MPH... Finally, got dark on him and he never saw 100. Not much later, Ernie, the Band Teacher, Thikle something like that, ran the boat at a kilo and blew it over before he completed a one way run. But we always felt 100 was close to blow over speed. Speeds are easy to talk about. The 1968 Schulze that Ted May and Drove only went 67 mph and we reaqlly ran second.

Personnally, I'd be surprised if a Switzer ever went 110. Blow over were common. AS speed doubles, lift squares... It was Lee Sutter who first added weight to a tunnel. See, I always felt my weight was in fact an advantage...

Ron Hill
01-16-2003, 05:43 PM
Ken Cree's PDQ Market "DONATED" that champagne BK. He paid my entry fee for putting Ken Cree's PDK Market on my boat...I made him also donate 6
cases of champagne... five ended up with Division Winners, one with my crew!!! (Wasn't it "Cold Duck"...or was that my dad's favorite??? Cold Duck, tastes like Sh*&).

T2x
01-16-2003, 07:35 PM
J.Ernest (Ernie) Threlkeld from Kentucky, I believe, blew over a "wing" at the Norristown kilos............ He had gone one way in the one-teens and flipped on the return run.

Kenny Kitson had NOA records both in the teens for twin and triple engined classes....using various wings.

Dave Craig claimed to have exceeded 100 mph at Lake X with his original wooden wing using 2 merc 1000's (100 hp apiece). Up til now I never questioned these numbers.

Since I am currently starting a restoration project on a 20 foot Switzer wing........... we'll see....won't we?

Clayton, NY....2004.... see ya there.


T2x

T2x
01-16-2003, 07:41 PM
The first thing to go is the paint job.

sho305
01-16-2003, 07:46 PM
Unless you can get Kelloggs to sponsor it:)

Wonderful machine! Hope I can see one run some day.

Mark75H
01-16-2003, 09:33 PM
100 to just under 120 I do not question. Its those 120 plus numbers that look like Paul Bunyan stories to me.

I hope there is more than one Wing there in 2004. How about making 2004 the OPC Raceboat Regatta? Dick Davis plans on bringing his 14 foot Scott 3 pointer with dual 75 hp McCullochs with 1.1:1 lower units. Its a solid 65 mph rig.

In 98 there was a Shooting Star with a 135/BP Merc. Isn't that one of your neighbors X?

It would be cool to see a lot more old tunnel hulls there!

It would be a great place for Raceman to run his dual stacker, too!

Powercat
01-16-2003, 09:52 PM
Sam:
I have been talking up this idea with several Powercat owners,
about making the trip to Clayton for 2004. I was wondering
if this event is invitation only? I am hoping by then to have a rig together I am trying to purchase that may give even the
Switzers a run on a short course... What I am hoping is that I
can convince the Powercat guys to bring several Cats and hydros
that are under restoration....
Danny Leger

helmetguru
01-16-2003, 10:00 PM
sounds cool, all these old school tunnel boats, maybe we'll have the 1982 Bacardi Rum Hodges done by then to bring it up...

I just read a cool story on Ray Leger and his PowerCats, how did you get from Paramount, California to Austin? Powercats were some of the first tunnels raced in the US, too cool!!

Powercat
01-16-2003, 10:21 PM
Powercat opened the second plant in Victoria Texas in 1959, to build boats for Central and Eastern US.. In 1962 the cost of labor and other economic factors in California, caused my Dad to close down the California plant and move us all to Victoria Texas and centralize all production there. Needless to say I was one unhappy 16 year old about this decision.. Untill I found out there was a NHRA drag strip in Victoria. Fire that destroyed the whole plant in 1966 was the beginning of the end.. Dad sold his last interest in the company out in 1970. The company continued on till the late 70's but I am not actually sure when it finally folded.
I left in 1968 for 2 years USN and in and out of college till came to
Austin in 1972 to work in styling shop at Glastron. Quit that after less than a year, went back to school at UT Austin. Been here ever since except for 3 years in late 80's worked back in SoCal.
Danny Leger

Mark75H
01-17-2003, 08:01 AM
The Antique Raceboat Regatta is an open event, but you have to register in advance. The last time I went they only had about 80% of the space for exhibitors filled. This was a little hard to notice because from the entrance to the water side of the buildings was jamb packed. If you had walked all the way around counter clockwise you came to some of their own boats spaced out in the yard. Those could have been left in one of their buildings.

The on water action is limited to their course that is quite far from the shore because they run their Unlimited hydro on it too. The river is wide there and often rough; about as much as a little hydro can stand. You have to use good saftey equipment and attend the driver's meeting and :( no actual racing is allowed, you have to keep a good distance between boats. Its a demonstration that your boat actually runs, not a race. Just the same, the chance to run a real race boat where people truely appreciate it and for them to see and hear it is a one of a kind event.

T2x
01-17-2003, 08:52 AM
This could be a "dream event"...... I'll try to dig up a bunch of the old east coast guys......... Literally "dig up" maybe:p

The wing will fly...........................

T2x

Mark75H
01-17-2003, 09:12 AM
I know what would add even more to it!

If we could get more of the guys that drove the boats like T2X, Ron Hill, John Schubert, Jon Culver, Gemini, Ken Kitson and whoever they can drag along....Jimbo McConnel and Bill Seebold maybe?


Wouldn't it be cool to get Bob Switzer there with Seebold, Bob Walwork and Brad Collins?

T2x
01-17-2003, 09:51 AM
Billy Seebold will probably be at the St. Louis race. I believe it is on the same weekend.

Other than that we scan shoot for as many as possible. Even though Sirois has left us, his wife Vida loves things like this and is very close to the Culvers. I'll check and see. I'll also reach out to Johnny Sherlock, George Linder and a few others. Maybe we can get Rotharmel out of hibernation in Canada too. That's a short trip for him and his dad.

If there are a lot of awards and applause, maybe Reggie will come too!

T2x

Jeff_G
01-17-2003, 11:38 AM
Rich any chance of you getting something going a little further south in your area, or mid atlantic?

Anyone going to Mt. Dora? Been there? How is that for old OPC boats. Are there any there?

T2x
01-17-2003, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Jeff_G
Rich any chance of you getting something going a little further south in your area, or mid atlantic?

Anyone going to Mt. Dora? Been there? How is that for old OPC boats. Are there any there?

Jeff:

No problem here. The issue is, however, that Clayton as a bi-annual event is sort of the crown jewel of Antique and Historic Regattas. Certainly the participants can, and do, travel to other locales for other events.

Darren and I are aiming at Clayton because it will take quite a while for me to "refresh" the wing......After that.....we plan on taking it to a lot of locations.

I wonder how fast it would go around the St Pete Offshore course?
:p :p :p



T2x

Jeff_G
01-17-2003, 02:41 PM
St. Pete has an "OFFSHORE" course????:D :D :D

sho305
01-17-2003, 03:00 PM
Are their any of these runs that will be close to Michigan?

We had a nice race out in lake MI for big boats....then politics and insurance trashed that apparently.:( All the boats here in this state...strange.

Mark75H
02-17-2003, 12:32 AM
Just wanted to post this picture of one of the very early Molinari tunnels. Probably 1965-ish. Look at how it differs from the boats we think of as Molinari tunnels............no cowled section behind the driver, just a tonneau snapped on and angled down sides

helmetguru
02-17-2003, 12:35 AM
i posted pictures of these a while back, here's the boats sitting outside the molinari shop in como..circa 1965

John Schubert
02-17-2003, 02:56 PM
In reply to the message posted by T2X, Richie Sutphen's tunnel was built in his Lake Hopatcong shop by either himself or his boat builders. Neither Bob nor Sid Urytzki (correct spelling) built a boat for Sutphen. Omc sent an engine to Sutphen with the express understanding that I was to take her on her inaugeral ride, which I did at a race on the Delaware in Trenton, NJ, and won.

Raceman
02-17-2003, 03:18 PM
Welcome to ScreamandFly John. There are a lot of old boat racers around here and we're always lookin' for more.

T2x
02-18-2003, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by John Schubert
In reply to the message posted by T2X, Richie Sutphen's tunnel was built in his Lake Hopatcong shop by either himself or his boat builders. Neither Bob nor Sid Urytzki (correct spelling) built a boat for Sutphen. Omc sent an engine to Sutphen with the express understanding that I was to take her on her inaugeral ride, which I did at a race on the Delaware in Trenton, NJ, and won.

In the early 70's there was a guy running a Sidson tunnel in the local Northeast races. He claimed it was one of the original hulls "built for Richie".............. Did Richie use the same plans?
I'll have to ask 'ol Gangway next time I see him.

By the way John, did you ever test in Secaucus?

T2x

John Schubert
02-18-2003, 10:42 AM
Rich,

I tested on the Hackensack River at Sky Harbor in Secaucus an untold amount of times. We lived in Clifton, so it was the closest place to go. If the water was rough there you just went up river towards Hackensack to where the river changed directions and the water was smooth.

The guy who raced Richies boat after I did the maiden voyage thing, was Steve DiFeo. Steve was the nephew of Al Calvano who was the Marina owner of I think Lake Hopatcong Marine, right on the main part of the lake. My dad & Al were partners back in the late 40's in a small repair shop on the creek off of Greenwood Lake where we lived. I believe that Steve may be the current owner of a marine business on the very north end of Greenwood Lake. Anyway, I'm not sure if Richie consulted with Sid about his boat nor am I aware if he took measurements from one of the Sid's. I can tell you that the boat did not handle or carry itself anything like my Sid.

John Schubert
02-18-2003, 10:45 AM
Rich,

Forgot to mention that there were 2 guys racing in the NE with Sid Sons, one was an African American from down around Camden and another from somewhere near Philadelphia. There also was a guy with a Chrysler who didn't run too bad.

Mark75H
02-18-2003, 11:13 AM
John, I bought a big pile of Chrylser racing stuff years ago (all long gone....don't ask for it, guys) from an African American guy in Washington, DC named George White. Was he one of these guys?

John Schubert
02-18-2003, 11:16 AM
Sam,

Could have bee, but the guy I remeber had a Johnson KR, eight barrel.

scotti 66
02-18-2003, 11:28 AM
Dear Buddy,
I get somewhere a pic of Molinari boats dated 67, driven by Cesare.
For time being (you have already put this pic on your great pages), Cesare wins Paris 66 driving a Molinari hull.
Yours sincerely
Massimo

T2x
02-18-2003, 11:52 AM
John:

Actually Steve De Feo raced a Seebold/T2x for George Nickolson...."Nickholson Furs". Prior to that Steve was either ASH National Champion or record holder..... I don't think Steve ever drove a tunnel prior to the Seebold. He worked for us at Image Boat co. prior to the Shadow era and I raced against him at that time.

I asked about Secaucus, because I believe you were close to my ex business partner, Don Lostumbo.

T2x

John Schubert
02-18-2003, 12:00 PM
Yup, Don, Johnny Schedel, his brother, my brother Dave & I were very good friends.

I wasn't aware that Steve drove the Seebold / T2X but Richie told me that Steve did drive his tunnel, and perhaps that is where he got his initial tunnel experience. I also knew Steve won the ASH nationals, as I thought it was a quantum leap from the ASH to tunnels.

T2x
02-18-2003, 12:10 PM
Actually, the best tunnel drivers came out of some form of stock, alky or mod outboard............. The tunnels seemed like they moved in slow motion by comparison......... until they reached 100 mph or so. Steve did blow over in the Seebold....inevitably.... after all, shifting your weight had a LOT less impact as the bow came up.

It's funny....... offshore cats seem like they move in slow motion to me....... in comparison to a tunnel boat.


T2x

Ron Hill
02-18-2003, 09:01 PM
Hey, I NEED to tell some stories here:

In 1973, I won the DSR APBA NAtionals in Dayton, Ohio. Steve DiFeo won ASH.

Two things here, OLD KG-4's were hard to make run fast, I knew from experience, Steve didn't just WIN THE NATIONALS, he killed them. He pulled about a half lap on the field.

While I was in inspection, I always talked, so I always had help in inspection... Losts of people wanted to help, figuring they could catch something or figure out why I was fast. Old Man Lister helped...actually, did everything they wanted from my engine...

While we were in there and I'm BSing with everyone, Steve DiFeo comes in. I tell Old Man Lister, let's snoop at his "A". He must have a cheat to beat those guys like that.

If you know KG-4's like I knew KG-4's you could usually spot stuff, if anything had been done.... His motor was the stockest thing I'd seen since MY old KG-4's.

That winter, I called Steve, and said, "Damn, tell me your secret.".. He said, "Ron, believe it or not, my Craig Craft gave me 5 MPH over my old boat"... Don't recall the old boat, but in 1974 most of the "A" field were Craig Crafts...They had hollow transoms for less drag, plus some cool other stuff.....

I never talked to Steve again...that was 30 years ago!!!

Ron Hill
02-18-2003, 09:12 PM
A John Schubert Story:

1970, Johnny Schubert and me are to drvie Paris and Berlin together for Jim Briggs. Mr. Briggs and Straton, Jim's kids aren't old enough to drive, yet...

I tell Schubert, when we are testing in Belgium, not to be honest on the RPM. I said these mother will turn motor than they are letting us. We can win Paris, but we need
Punch" off the corners. I tell him to do the driving becasue "Mouse" the mechanic (Mr. OMC RACE TEAM), will not believe me if I say 6,800.

Johnny comes in tells Mouse it is 6,800 but tells me it is like 7,200. I tell him "Bitchen", let's get a smaller wheel. Mouse get DAH (Don Hendrich) to get us a smaller prop....Johnny goes out and just cuts the engine in half....wings a rod through the side. By the time he's back, Johnny Sanders is testing our first prop.....

Johnny wins Paris with this prop.....we get a "CLUB" because Mouse says he wants to go to Berlin.

Johnny gets a call from his boss and tells him NOYt to stay in Europe two weeks....Johnny and I drive our butts off all day...no puch off the corners.... we finially break our steering from over trimming, trying to get off the corners..

Johnny says good by when I take the last shift and say's he's got to catch a plane. That was October 1970. I don't see Johnny, until September 2000... thirty years later...

Ron Hill
02-18-2003, 09:29 PM
LAst Story Tonight:

1959, Seattle Nationals. It is my second D Runabout race. I had raced C Runabout for two years but D was new and I had won my Divisionals, otherwise my dad had said I couldn't run D at the Nationals. I was 15 years old.

The first heat of D was wild, I was catching Keith Stippich when he missed a bouy. I hung back thinking they'd DQ Keith for missing the bouy.

Between heats, they were taping John Schedel boat back together... A beautiful Sid Craft, with gold leaf numbers. The Californians said Schedel had hit the bouy and was DQ'd too.

(I fould out later he had NOT hit the bouy and was not DQ'd)..

All this talk of Stippich and Schedel being out, allowed me to think I didn't need a good start and I started about last...In inspection, they said John Schedel had won. We complained, no official protest, but said he'd hit the bouy. Without him being Dq'd they told my dad we'd lost on time. Which seemed reasonable to me, I'd taken it easy the first heat and got a poor start the second heat.

I was determined to win C runbaout. I got third the first heat....finished exactly where I started. I decided my only hope to win was to start first. I was pulling the field into the first turn when I, for the first time in my life, blew over. The boat landed right side up and I finished the heat... for 4th overall...

We had an enjoyable Trophy party that night and on the way out of the restaurant Monday morning, we picked up the paper and read where Keith Stippich had NOT been Dq's the first heat for missing the bouy. I had not lost on time, I had lost on points.

The officials, had ruled that without a protest on the missed bouy there was no foul...we found that out later...

Mickey and Sid told my dad, who sold Sid Crafts boats for them on the west coast, that John Schedel HAD NOT HIT the bouy, we figured there was always next year.

I don't recall if John Schedel ran Gunterville, AL in 1960. I had four more seconds, in a row, in D runabout, before I finally won in 1964.

John had a great looking and running D, I never felt that he did not win it by the rules....

John Schubert
02-19-2003, 11:47 AM
Ron,

Guntersville was 61 & 62. Beloit was 1960. I believe Johnny was there but can't recall how he finished. Nice memory about tesing in the Canal at Brugge. I don't recall it exactly that way, but it makes for good copy. What I do recall is that Jimbo replaced me in our ride at Berlin and you guys won. I recall the telegram Jim Briggs sent to me announcing your victory and how badly I felt for not going.

Ron Hill
02-19-2003, 07:43 PM
Pretty sure, John Shedel was not at Beloit in '60. 1959 to 1963 is five years in a row, Seattle, Beloit, Guntersville, Gunterville, Boston... You are right about the year...

What don't you remember about Belgium testing? Nordfskog was driving with Ted May... after Nordskog tested, Ted sat backwards on the steering cowling and talked to Bob about killing himself if he didn't listen to me and Ted....They were towing you in at this time.

You didn't like lying to Mouse about the RPM.....

The funny part about Jimbo driving with me, he didn't want to drive with me becasue he thought the boat was slow. He wanted to run with Scotti... Leek made him drive with me. And the morning of the race Leek had Jimbo scheduled to start the race. I told Leek I WAS THE DRIVER AND I WAS STARTING THE RACE and if he wasn't sure to ask Jim Briggs....

As it turned out, Jimbo's watch quit running and he pitted 20 minutes early... I was out of gas with one lap to go and I pitted and waited for them to put the gas dock back together... It was cold as hell in Berlin and the guys wanted to get to the hotel...I'm yelling I need gas and they are yelling I don't. Finally, Rich McKinnley looks in my tank and says there ain't no gas... Luckily we had about a lap lead and as I left the pit the six hour flare went off, so I knew all I had to do was finish the last lap.

Jim Briggs gave me a Lawn Boy lawn mower for winning...If I got a trophy, I've lost it....But winning the Berlin Six Hour was like wiing the Parker Nine Hour, not everyone has done it... I wished then, and now that you had been my co-driver....You were one hell of a driver in your day!!! Truth is, Scot Keller's dad timed for Charlie...and you lapped faster in Paris than I....(You trimmed her out more and broke the steering... after that she was hard to drive...

Ron Hill
03-01-2003, 05:01 PM
They took John Schubert's name off and added Jimbo McConnell... I figured I was top name and I should start... Berlin 1970, this is at the start....

Ron Hill
03-01-2003, 05:06 PM
I think I said I enjoyed passing inboards with my outboard. This was the first weekend in March, 1968, it was the Nine Hour Enduro Weekend, my DeSilva Wing was powered with the first 100 inch V-4's ever made. Ray Nydalh had assembled them and we'd tested most of the Month of February and Havasu Springs... This WAS the first time I could "Blow By" inboards, and it wasn't pretty for them...

Ron Hill
03-07-2003, 09:03 PM
Ran across this picture. Kenny Kitson won Havasu in 1968, but I always felt, had my motors run all day, I could have repeated my 1967 win.. Kitson was faster but the course was such that driving a V Hull, with 1`25 boats, you could make up for lack of speed..

Boz
03-08-2003, 11:48 AM
Wasn't that boat of yours, on page 5, in Hot Boat Mags edition on boats with wild paint jobs? Yours was there with Zuckermans?

arcticracer
06-08-2004, 02:03 PM
Anybody know any history of Barracuda Boats in Portland? Here is my addition to the thread.

arcticracer
06-08-2004, 02:06 PM
A look at the tunnel and business end. 25" Chopper, not the best prop for this boat. Nose gets too high, and she starts getting loose.

Mark75H
06-08-2004, 05:33 PM
Looks a lot like a Magnum Missle/Rabco incarnation ... again and again.

PARKER RABE
06-09-2004, 01:48 PM
not a rabco

kornman
05-30-2008, 12:37 PM
Any Info On Ob Barracuda Tunnel Boat-looking At One For Sale Now Kornman

ssmith007
05-30-2008, 06:05 PM
Do a search. I may be mistaken but, I think someone posted a couple pictures of one and wanted to put a V6 on it. It was an old air entrapment hull and designed for an inline. Kinda looked like a Missle. May not be the one. Either way, the guys on here can tell you about it. Post a Pic. Good Luck. Smitty

kornman
06-01-2008, 11:44 AM
Thanks For The Info. Will Keep You Informed.

Bruce Washburn
06-02-2008, 02:36 PM
There were some tunnels built in the U that were called Baracudas. They were great rough water boats. They were wood and probably built in the early to mid 80's. A couple made it to the US. Post a photo and we may be able to be of more help. The ones that i saw in the US were made for V-6's.

largecar91
06-02-2008, 02:49 PM
The Glass Barracudas were copies of the Dutchman tunnel hull. There have been articles with pictures on here before. Try a search for them and you should find what you are looking for.

roc
02-16-2010, 08:02 PM
I talked with Dale Littlejohn,as i was talking with him we came up with the molinaris boat. So back to the search for more info?The rigging and proper set up help

afr
02-16-2010, 10:54 PM
you guys rock ill have to come back and read all this
thanks for sharing

Aneed4speed
12-05-2012, 02:50 PM
Hello everyone, I am new to the sight, only Sid-Son
When you say Mickey, is that my Pop?
Who broke the speed record in his single engine Mercury Twister II powered (141) Molinary Tunnel hull back in 1971.
A whopping 112 mph, it was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen.
The boat was wound up tight, heading out of the east at sunset.
Dad was headed directly towards us we were sitting aside in a safety pickup boat.
It was a big beautiful sunset to boot, with Dad screaming in from the distance.
The sunset illuminated through the tunnel with half of the prop cascading out of the water.
The rooster tail, prop wash must have been twenty feet high and 200 feet long.
Simply beautiful to see. The water was like glass, not a breath of wind.

We owned and operated Micks Port Haven Marina then and testing the race boats was almost daily.
The channel was what we refer to as the San Jacinto River (Houston Ship Channel).
A lot of great power boat races were hosted at the marina and on the San Jacinto River back in these days.
Also in Galveston, outside of the place we call Moody Gardens today.
Red Adair paid for a lot of these races, another great name to the bay area.

But I was curious if this was who you were talking about.

For me, I am pulling together a design to build my own hull. Yes I am very good with wood work and would like to give it a try. I watched a Shrimp boat builder, who built the Patches replacement hull after our Sidewinder duel Mercury C-6 powered (T-22) tunnel boat was destroyed in an accident. Yet I grew up living this life of flash, color and glitter. Also racing motocross for some 20 years myself. But Tunnel boats have always been a passion of mine. So if anyone has any helpful tips to building my boat. I want to hear it!

Also maybe we can start a class of racing that will get the kids involved and for people who cant afford the F-1 class. Try to get the sport up and running in the Houston or Galveston area again.

Aneed4speed
12-05-2012, 02:56 PM
Also, I saw the name David Lee. I used to race motocross with a cool cat named David Lee back in the 80's. I wonder if this is my long lost friend from back in the day.

Mark75H
12-05-2012, 08:52 PM
Sorry, Mickey in relation to Sid-Son and Sidcraft is Mickey Staron of NJ.

I think there is an active group of Tri-hull racers in your area ... doesn't seem to be much interest beyond that. Many re-set/restart attempts have been made, but generally, the interest is not there and people's disposable income is rapidly shrinking.

Aneed4speed
12-05-2012, 10:44 PM
That obvious!

Yes we are hurting down in the Houston area for sure. Hiram Muecke is Mick or Mickey from the old days of Reggi Fountain and Seabold Sr. They are all good friends, or at least at one time they all stayed in contact. Dad is getting up in the years and seems to have lost his Mojo you might say. Still with it dont get me wrong. But out of touch with his passion, boats.

That was why I had an idea to build low budget tunnel boats to race low key races. Then as it always happens, the need for speed grows and so does the circuit. My idea is to start a kids league with small motors and small tunnel boats. Slow enough to be safe and fast enough to be fun. Then of corse the fathers want to join in and there you have it, the Tunnel hull club is on again!

I just need some good design aspects so as to build the hulls. Sell them to the people who want to compete. Keeping the prices low so as to keep the sport fun.

John Schubert
12-06-2012, 07:50 AM
Sorry, Mickey in relation to Sid-Son and Sidcraft is Mickey Staron of NJ.

I think there is an active group of Tri-hull racers in your area ... doesn't seem to be much interest beyond that. Many re-set/restart attempts have been made, but generally, the interest is not there and people's disposable income is rapidly shrinking.

Sam, not to be picky but Mickey 's name was actually Starego.

Mark75H
12-06-2012, 07:41 PM
Thanks, I don't know what made me type it wrong. Please be picky and keep things right!

The kids' tunnel class has been done at least twice already. Even a fixed motor/boat combo class has sputtered.

There is a section of OPC with classes called Mini GT and GT Pro that you should look into if you are serious about trying to restart tunnel hulls in your area. No need to re-invent the wheel when there are plenty of spare tires not being used.

Combine Mini GT events with APBA J events and you have what you are looking for ... pre-made

Aneed4speed
12-07-2012, 09:12 AM
Was that the John Schubert! Wow, I am truly honored.

I hear what you are saying Mark, I am making a big move from the Clear Lake area to the Lake Houston area. Work has all but dried up for NASA. Only my work is by Lake Houston, a place to play! Only educate me if you know this, why did the circuit wind down in the Lake Houston location? Was it simply money that no longer supported the racing or was it the locals who no longer wanted the sport in there location!

Clear Lake was great, only the economists felt that the boats scared away the birds. At least that was what Red Adair and my father (Mick Muecke) had mentioned. The big hydro races were so cool! As well as the Tunnel boat racing.

Thanks you two for taking the time to share, I idolize this sport and the history that I have grown to know.

Aneed4speed
12-07-2012, 09:37 AM
Sure I am interested in the sanction aspect of OPC with the Mini GT and GT Pro classes of tunnel boat racing. I have been looking for hulls such as these, I have found one drag boat up and around he King Wood area. I don't wish to re-invent the wheel, only I do need to expand my resources or contacts.

Also, maybe some advice on combining the Mini GT events with APBA J events.

So how about a 6'2" tall person, the boats are not very big. Will the J events allow a person this size float? Pardon the pun!

Mark75H
12-07-2012, 06:37 PM
J is just kids 9 to 17 (you can continue to race the remainder of the summer you turn 17 if you start out as 16) years old ... you were talking about getting kids started

As far as AXS ... yes there are some relatively tall racers running AXS ... there are some pretty big 16 year olds, too.

Aneed4speed
12-07-2012, 07:23 PM
John Schubert, you and I talked some 8 months back.
I was going to drive over to your shop to see a few tunnel hulls available.
Do you still have a few boats around the shop?

peterse90
12-08-2012, 03:51 PM
Who broke the speed record in his single engine Mercury Twister II powered (141) Molinary Tunnel hull back in 1971.
A whopping 112 mph, it was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen.

Check your dates. I don't think Merc Twister II's appeared until mid-season 1972 and were even quite new in November at the 1972 Outboard World Championships. The Merc team here in Canada did not get Twister II's until 1973.

I know I have a poster somewhere that shows one of the Berghauers and Bob Hering setting kilo records for U class and S class in I think 1973 at about 114mph for U and 118 for S class.

Mark75H
12-08-2012, 06:40 PM
I think you are correct.

peterse90
12-11-2012, 12:10 PM
Check your dates. I don't think Merc Twister II's appeared until mid-season 1972 and were even quite new in November at the 1972 Outboard World Championships. The Merc team here in Canada did not get Twister II's until 1973.

I know I have a poster somewhere that shows one of the Berghauers and Bob Hering setting kilo records for U class and S class in I think 1973 at about 114mph for U and 118 for S class.

Kaukauna kilos June 1973; Bob Hering S class 118.441, Duane Berghauer U class 113.271.

Easy to get confused as to when Twister II's appeared. If you go way back to the beginning of HOT SINGLES, Willabee says the first C6 appeared in Berlin 1970, then in Miami in early 1971 but that race was blown out and they finally appeared in July again in Miami and there were a few in November of 1971 at the Outboard World Championships, but in 1971 they were still referred to as C6's and were only available to the factory drivers, such as Renato, Hering, Sirois and Seebold. The C6's went thru a few changes then in early 1972 they became Twister II's. Of course C6's and Twister II's from a distance and exterior are virtually the same.
I'm sure Willabee and Mark75H can be more specific as to the difference between a C6, a NED C6 and a Twister II.
269210269211269212

peterse90
12-11-2012, 06:04 PM
Looks like Hering may be running a TIIX.

Go to HOT SINGLES post #104.
Willabee posted a good description and picture of the Bob Hering boat that was probably the first pickle-fork Molinari in North Amerca and descibes it as powered by a TII.

clayolie
01-28-2013, 12:54 AM
Anyone have any info on horizon tunnel boats? Im purchasing a 1981 20' horizon true tunnel......and I cannot find any history or info on boat......any info would help.

Mark Poole ModVP
01-28-2013, 01:18 AM
I think the first U.S. race for the merc T2 was Miami 225, early 1972? Bob Herring appeared to have the race in hand until it broke, handing the race to Jimbo who was driving one of those slick looking Mcdonald tunnels.

joyrider
02-25-2013, 04:17 AM
Hodges tunnel boats, can anyone supply info on models /designs that Chris Hodges UK built. pre cell / V8 era
I have a Hodges hull and am keen to find more info on it. Built 1980 from plans sent from UK, the hull is just under 16ft.
I believe its a sprint hull, designed for T2x /T3 Merc's

Mark Poole ModVP
02-26-2013, 03:19 AM
Mark Wilson and his father Jackie would know since Mark raced the V-6 Hodges boat a lot.

kdtilt
12-19-2015, 07:42 AM
As long as there seems to be no limits to this minutiae.........on pickle forks..................

There was a 14' flat bottom Allison/merc 650 running out of Maryland in 1964/65 called "Super Pickle".................

What that has to do with this topic...............I have no idea.

T2x

Old post resurrected
The sponsor on that boat....
Beale's grocery.... Aha!
As Mr Harvey used to say..."now you know the rest of the story"
MERRY CHRISTMAS! To you and the mrs

T2x
12-21-2015, 03:09 PM
Old post resurrected
The sponsor on that boat....
Beale's grocery.... Aha!
As Mr Harvey used to say..."now you know the rest of the story"
MERRY CHRISTMAS! To you and the mrs

Right back at ya.....