Should I repbuild a 88 200gt or repower new

[Rocco]

I currently have a 88 Hydrostream Vegas rigged with a 88 200GT.The motor has approx. 300 hours on it with 90lbs compression on all 6 holes. The top port cylinder is makeing some noise, my guess it's the locater pin. Should I rebuild/hot rod the existing power head, purchase a newer power head (225 HO 3 lt) or purchase a complete new motor. :confused:

[B.Leonard]

If you decide to repower, I hear WILDMAN still has one 225 HO left. I believe it's the last Johnson HO made and has the lightning gearcase factory.

Send him an e-mail and find out liberatorboats@yahoo.com

-BL

[Rocco]

If I decided to rebuild/hot rod, what would you recomend as far as modifications. I use the boat to water ski and would like to maintain low end grunt and dependability.

[sho305]

I see a 200 and 225 HO on the site that says new, but no talk here about them http://www.evinrudeoutboards.com/evinrude/web/jsp/mainPage.jsp?Params=N.US.200002.0#

[Rocco]

Do the newer closed deck power heads fit on a 88 mid?

[Jones Racing #157]

Hot Rod it!! send it to Monty. www.montyracing.com

[Instigator]

not w/o shortening the drive shaft
the newer motors ahve longer cranks

your motor can be made to make as much as any of them but you will spend $100. per hole for finger porting to get in on an even playing field and you will still have the slower trim system

a 225 HO makes probably 50 more HP's at the prop than your motor stock

if you sent your block to Monty or Stoker you would spend probably $2 - $3k on boring/porting
figure another $1K $1500. for pistons, rings, gaskets etc.
But you would/could end up with 280 - 300 HP @ 7500 on pump gas!

the HO's rev limiter is at 6750 and from '99 and up the EPA says keep your hands out!

figure out your finances/needs and then call either of the two guys I listed and ask a bunch of ??

[Rocco]

I already have a newer ( 98-99 ) lower unit and 2 pc. drive shaft on the motor. 280-300hp@7500, without the VRO?

[WILDMAN]

Rocco, I've got one 2001 225 HO left. Brand new, in the box! Full factory warrantee. $9000

[Instigator]

yes on both accounts

Although I drove a freinds STV w/a '95 OMC limited edition @ 7400 RPM and he swore the motor was box stock and I think including the VRO.

If you get any more serious about this you should definately call one of the two gurus listed above.

P.S. I heard a rumor that the "mystery" article that Stoker wrote about how to make a 300 HP OMC with factory parts is supposed to be in next months Hot Boat mag.

He told me when he wrote the article a year ago, I think 310 HP's with the stock rev limiter on pump gas!!

[Liqui-Fly]

If you like to ski just do a rebuild and leave it alone. Remeber it takes lot and lot of extra HP to go just a little faster. Or buy some stock brand new HP. High performance motors hate to idle, bog, and run under loead.

David

[Rocco]

wildman thanks, I do not want to spend that much $ on this boat. I would like to get another boat that would be more suited for inter coastal/brackish water. I live about 12 miles up river (Great Egg Harbor River) from Ocean City,N.J. I would like to keep this boat for skiing and just blasting around if financial situation premits.

My dream boat: 24 skater,25 motion,or a classic cigarret

[Rocco]

Instigator
$4500for a 280-300 hp motor. Would this motor have decent low end grunt and be well suited for idling around!

I would compromise on some hp, If could get a user friendly motor

[Rocco]

Wildman
Make me a deal on that sweet 24 Cat powered by the 2-225HO's.My boat and $$$$$$$$. The paint and detail on that boat is outstanding!!!!!!!! What kind of speeds are you getting with that set-up???

[Rocco]

Didn't Baker build a 300 hp 3.0lt looper for a bass boat???
I thought I read something a couple of months ago. He stated it had alot of torque/grunt out of the hole.

[Instigator]

yes, it has been done many times by many people.
Fly is right also.
If you have somebody mod the block for you make sure and tell them you want to ski with it if thats what you are going to do with it.
The good ones will ask you this anyhow.
One of the 300's was built by Al Stoker (racer on this board) about a year ago for his tech article in Hot Boat magazine.
There was lengthy delays in the article being published and I just heard the rumor that it was finally going to press so we shall see.
An easy way to equate what the porting does to your motor is to thing of it as doing the same thing as a cam shaft in your car. Identical. Larger ports = more lift, raising them = increasing lift duration
The more port height the less low end you will have.
Carburetion also has almost as much to do with the idle capability as the porting does.
Assuming proper porting for your application, improper carburetion can keep it from idiling worth a damn.
A good tuner will take your entire rig (same as a cam co. would) into consideration before ever touching a die grinder.
With the heavy weight of your Vegas, they couldn't get as wild as they could for say my Vector which is sevral hundred lbs lighter than your boat.
Back to the idling concearns though, if you have somebody good do the work it will idle like stock.
I was down in Fla last Winter and was lucky enough to get the chance to drive Gordon Montagues (Monty Racing) "mule".
He had a 19' Action Marine pad Vee bottom with a motor that started life identical to yours.
It ran (with me driving) 94 GPS and tuned a 29" SRX I believe 7400.
The best part was the motor looked stock (can you say sleeper?), sounded stock (at idle), idled like stock, started like stock, and had the same or better low end grunt as stock.
If done right, it can be done!
Gary

[Rocco]

Instigator

Did Monty do your machine work or did Stoker?

What hard parts would you recomend:
Pistons
heads
flywheel
reeds
carbs(Part#)
intake(88 is good,but 97+ is better or would you recomend monty's)

I love the sleeper idea!!! That's why i would like to stay with OMC anybody can buy a merc 2.5 and add bolt ons. Dare to be different!!!!!!

I can not wait until my next issue of Hot Boat

[Rocco]

I wish Baker,Kaptain Kurt,and Racer would join in. Does Monty frequent this site!!!!

[WILDMAN]

I sold the yellow 24. $ 49,000! You'll never see a deal like that again! In a few days I'll post pics of MY BIG BLACK JOHNSON! I sandblasted, blocked out and repainted a 300hp V8 johnson. All gloss black with chrome and red decals. It's awesome looking. I got carried away on it as always. It's for sale for $4000. New factory powerhead in 99.

[Instigator]

Stoker did my machine work.
Gordon is just as good but I have to admit being prejudiced due to Stokers history of Kicking ass racing an OMC against the Merc factory guys and beating their asses back in the Mod VP days!
As far as hard parts, it depends.
Go back to my earlier response. What do you want do with your rig??
Pistons are pretty much depndant upon wear in the bores so if you do it right, in reality your not making that desicion.
Heads are a debatable item for me on a lake boat.
I personally think that a set of 2.7 heads that have been decked are hard to beat on a lake motor.
Same thing with the intake.
A lot of this is based on the RPM of the motor too. If you're only going to turn it 6500 your waisting your money.
Same thing with fly wheel. From waht I know, it is an RPM limited issue only.
Light weight helps it accelerate but shows nothing on a dyno. (that's fact)
As far as people following the board, racer and Gordon are probably both reading this right now.
Gordon is a voyer though and will not post, right Gordon:D
Kaptain Kirk is a Merc guy and would tell you to sell your motor and buy one of dem black motors so you can be like every one else.
Sam Baker used to post but I think the OMC experience in their family was his dad, Ron senior. He was the **** from what I've been able to learn. They are mostly Merc now.
There are basically 3 OMC wizards that I know of in the US.
Gordon, Al and Acie Stringfield.
If you get/take advice from any one else, be very careful.
A draw back to playing with OMC's is that the info is not quite as free flowing as with the Mercs.
You can probably turn your boat into a 100 MPH OMC powered rig if you wanted to. Lots of home work, and a fair amount of cash to do it. Your motor or another.
I know Gordon and Al the best and I can tell you first hand that waht they have accomplished with a fishing motor is down right freakin amazing!!
Think of this. Gordons boat that I ran was uglier than a box of rocks! The motor looked and sounded like a stock motor.
But that boat would have had the 4th highest GPS reading at the Rumble and was 5 MPH faster then a STV powered by a Mariner 225 Super Mag. Think about that for a minute???
Gary

[LaveyT]

I belive Stoker has a powerhead that Dynoed at 312 hp for sale complete for $5000,Not to bad built by the Master and basicly Ready to drop on,No two year learning curve,bolt it on and Kick Ass!

[Instigator]

Awesome picture Dave!
Any of you that have not seen this boat run, this bastard flies just like it looks in this picture! He needs a window in the floor so he can see where the hell he's going;)
Dave is a good dude to get in this thread.
Tell them what you picked up at Jasper:eek:
Have you mounted it yet??
Gary

[Rocco]

How fast do you think my boat would go with 300 hp.? My fastest speed to date is 87mph w/27 srx modified by dah @6800

I did not mention in prev. post the lower has a bob's nose and the exhaust is relieved above the cav. plate

sea star pro steering &solid mounts upper/lower

[Rocco]

Racer

Do you still have the above ref. power head???Do you think this motor would fit my needs????

[LaveyT]

Gary, Its not bolted up yet,but i did drag it over close to the Lavey:p I have ordered a Hydromotive Nose cone that is supposed to be better on boats that need positive trim.It Cannot be any worse than a Bobs on my boat.Hydromotive doesnt do installs so i will have to get off my lazy ass and install it myself. i havent done a "nose Job" since the early 80's!
I have been up to my butt in home remodling stuff and am running stereo wire thru my attic today.that surround sound is real cool untill you try to figure out what to do with five sets of speaker wire and add complications such as components on different walls..it sucks.
Rocco,I have a power head from Gordon that has wiesco's enlarged finger ports ect,ect, modified heads and Boysen reeds.
Every thing is there except for the big bore carbs but 280 hp with the mid size carbs should be realistic,300 with big bore carbs.
You could rework your motor without fingerports and gain good hp. How fast do you want to go and how much do you want to spend?
P.S. that Stoker Motor would fit my needs!

[Rocco]

Lavey

How hard is it to get big bore carbs & whats the cost?

Would you run the air box or velocity stacks?

[LaveyT]

I havent looked for the big bore carbs yet but i belive they are from 1987 225? Maybe Gary could confirm this? The Mid size carbs will give better low end grunt but will limit top end H.P. and RPM.SpeedRacer went from about 7800 to 8300 when switching to the big bore carbs.How much difference would they make at 7300-7500 rpm? I dont know,racer has probably Dynoed the different carbs on the same powerhead.im just guessing 20 H.P.?
The other major advantage to the mid size carbs is they are easier to jet without as much of a mid range lean out problem these carbs/motors are known for.Velocity stacks will help above 7000 rpm just like the big bore carbs,But they add to the mid range lean condition.If you search Speedracers posts for Looper drag race thread you will get an idea of what is involved.Im going to break in with the air box and mid size carbs,then Velocity stacks..........Then phase II will be maybe next year.That will consist of the big bore carbs and a lite weight fly wheel.That is if the motor survives phase I:D
If you arnt going Ballistic on rpm,say 7200 max the stock cast pistons dont have the breakin and scuffing issues that the wiescos have.All ya really need is pluging the Exaust relief holes if ya got um,Mild port work and tighten up the heads.A low dollar motor that will run great! Good luck ( I still aint hit the attic)

[Rocco]

Lavey

There is a very nice lavey bow rider cruising the Great Egg Harbor River here in New Jersey! You do not see many this far east. He must be a transplant from Las Vegas to Alantic City( casino ). It has a extreme trailer under it.

Thanks for all your help!!!

[Rickracer]

...but FYI, I can get you brand new later looper carbs complete with throttle body. These are the '93 and up style with adjustable low speed air screw. They are not the 225 carbs, they are the 200 carbs $400 per set, quantities limited. :cool:

[Rocco]

Rickracer

Are the carbs you ref. considered "big bore"?

[Rickracer]

As far as I know, they are not the biggest bore (225 carbs), they are the next size down (200 carbs). They are an economical replacement option for 225s, 200s, or for an upgrade from older, non-adjustable carbs. :cool:

[racer]

Rocco,

I do still have that long block but feel it may be more than you really want. You would have to change your drive shaft to use it. I would stay with your current carbs as they are the same as the 88-225, while not the large bore of the 86 they offer better all around performance and are actually bigger than the late model 200 that Rickracer mentioned. Yours have the same throttle bore as the late 225. As for power gains with the 86 big bore it depends on the engines porting, they do help with top rpm especially on an engine running big revs, however on an engine that has peak hp at 6500 they add less than 5. That number goes up depending on where a particular engines peak hp is. The draw back of the big bore is the off idle performance is not as good and are generally more difficult to jet. A mod engine like yours done right will actually have more low end than stock when ported for peak power at 6500 or less, they will also idle smooth. Hope this answers your questions.

[Rocco]

Racer

What type of heads would you recomend:

Cut stock ( ?? cc for pump 93 octane gas )

Offset "Baker" ( ?? cc for pump 93 gas )

2nd effort pocket ( my ?? rare )

And would you recomend plugging the idle reilf ports??

[racer]

Rocco,

Heads, we make our own with a similar pocket to the old se head or the 2.7 head at a chamber depth of .700 Idle hole yes

[Rocco]

Racer

In reveiw so far:

Finger port my current open deck block. Port specific to make peak hp @ under 7000

Use my current carbs

Purchase your heads or find a set '86 2.7 heads and mill

Fill idle hole in each cylinder

What would you recomend for:

Intake?? ( Is my current '88 good or should I use newer '97 +,&will my carbs fit)

Pistons/rings??

Reeds&cage blocks??

What kind of hp #'s would you expect???

Do you Know were I could find a louvered Limeted edition/Mod V
light wt. cowl

[Instigator]

there is a lightweight JohnRude cowl for sale in the misc pts section for I think $250. plus freight.
FYI, I bought one for my FrankenRude project and then stripped all the hardware off of it to compare weights between stock and light weight.
3 lbs!
Not much bang for your buck!
If you do as I did, and strip all the factory latch and ducting crap off the stock one and then get the Merc style of rubber hold downs you end up dropping I think 9 lbs comparred to stock.
The hold downs are like $7. a pc at I think Grainger??

[sho305]

I used to get lots of stuff from this industrial supply near here in Muskegon, when I was building industrial equipment; they had some good prices. Reid Tool Supply or RTS: http://www.rtsindustrial.com/

Lots of hardware gadgets, knobs, latches, shocks, hinges, etc.