Questions for Ron Hill

[2us70]

In 1970 the OPC Nationals were scheduled for San Diego. At the last minute APBA came to the South Florida Outboard Club to put on the race. What happened out there to cause this. I am not complaining since it enabled me to run Nationals that year. Also did you Know a SE driver named Delbert Phipps? I was involved in a very tight points race with him and I naver met or knew anything about him other than his point total. What equipment were the west coast guys running back then? A couple of west coast boats came to nationals but I never got the chance to check them out. I am addressing this to you since it seems you were on the scene out there back then.

[Ron Hill]

Del Phipps is racing "C" Stock Runabout in Northern, CA. He has recently moved to Oroville. I have his eamil but he sent me one saying wait until he gets settled in the new place and he'll email me.

Del and his wife Mary would remember the 1970 Nationals deal. I don't really recall, but seems I might have been Region chair at the time and I made several trips to San Diego. George May might remember. He called Dave Mayer looking for Ted May and Dave called me....

I think San Diego wanted the race in September after the summer tourist go home, but APBA want an August date.... I'll do so homework and get back with you.

I can tell you why the 1962 Stock Outboard Nationals were not in Newport Beach and how Jim Jost got Guntersville to put them on at the last minute. But I won't bore you!!!

[BK]

Ron ~ I have a question too --

You said you have a program from the 1977 Bakersfield Stock Nationals..

I never knew there was one?

Since this was the only SO Nationals we ever attended before my brother had to stop racing, and I have tried hard to recall names of racers we met that awesome week -- is there any chance you can post some of it to Scream and Fly?

Thanks!

BK

[Ron Hill]

BK, you mentioned 11-M at Bakersfield being Fred Miller. As I recall Miller was always 33-M. 11-M seems like it might have been Chris White. Chris flew out and I picked him up at LAX and then we went over and picked up four new 25 SS motors. 001, 002, 003 and 004. I delievered these motors at Bakersfield. My cousin got one...

This is the cover of the 1977 Nationals. That is Don Johnson of ARCADIAN fAME ON THE COVER...

[Ron Hill]

INSIDE COVER...Ernie Dawe must have been Commodore and I was Race Chairman. I was thinking I was Commodore that year....Barb was Social Chair....

You want more pictures???

[Ron Hill]

A "Quickie" of "The Snapper"....

[BK]

Thanks Ron!

I don't know why I dont have one of those program books. I believe you are correct on who is in the picture on the cover - Don Johnston was a childhood friend of Mike and Erik Nordskog - Don's dad worked at the Nordskog Competition Center.

The boat Don is driving is one of the Ted May-built hydros he built for the boys (Ted worked for Nordskog too). I only saw Bob Nordskog come to the stock races one time, but Ted came with the 'boys' at every race. We called him the "Babysitter" or "Uncle Ted" just for fun.

Sometimes the photographer from Powerboat Magazine (Jim ? the name slips my memory right now) would come to our races and get some great shots of the 'Boys' -- maybe this great picture of Don is one of those shots he took?

Ron - your cousin John Heggenberger was always a friend to my brother too - Like you, he was always eager to give us a hand. I have a picture of him and my brother after he came to congratulate him on taking second behind him at an earlier event.

1977 Nationals -- My brother was involved in a nasty crash in one of the early 25ssh heats. 12 boats headed for turn 2 -- the boat in the lead lost it and Doug Martin had to veer away - directly into the path of my brother. Doug lost a brand spankin new Hutch-Craft. (built by Jeff Hutchins) One driver had a punctured lung - but everyone else was miraculously unharmed.

[Ron Hill]

Here is apicture from the 1977 program with Heggenburger's "AD"...

If I'm not mistaken, Mr. Nordskog never like "Dirty Pant " boat racers. He was forced to deal with some of us and was also coached by us.

I was at the POPBRA Meeting the night Bob bought Power Boat Magazine. He promised to promote Offshore Racing the way he saw it. I believe he was true to his words....... BUT he did print the 1977 Stock National Progams for FREE!!!!!

[Ron Hill]

OPPS, that Zorkan's add... This is Heggenburgers...

[Ron Hill]

This is my artile about Stock Racing...Maybe, I was Region Chair in '77.

[Oclassracer]

We called them Hutchburgers. Jeff was at the '76-'77(?) mod nationals in his Honda Civic with a 250 Hutchburger on top. The "arrow" was about three feet longer than the car on each end. My guess is Jeff was one of the first to build the ironing board boats that are so common these days.

[Ron Hill]

Jeff, Bill and Old Man Hutch were the greatest people.

Funny, you are right about DESIGN...I ran runabouts with the gearcase above the bottom when no one could do that. I ran 5" of set back in an 11' boats.

The problem, not everyone is a Jeff Hutchins or a Ronnie Hill. Historically speaking and looking back over my shoulder, I really wonder if boat measurement, we now have transom heights, but boat measurements would not have kept people racing longer.

Injury or fear of injury is why people quit racing. When you race a splinter it is easy to crash it. With no rules on boat design, too, a new radical design makes all old boats obsolete.

I'm not blaming Hutch or anyone esle, but I sometimes thing ONE DESIGNED HULL, where testing and practice could win you the race, might casue boat racing to grow.

About 1/3 of the "C" hydro class is new each year. But, the number stay the same, almost year after year. 1/3 new, 1/3 quit. A SPEC BOAT might keep people in the sport.

Some of the HUFF MOBILES were one race boats!!!! But, they won!!!
In 1964, I broke the "C" and "D" kilo record the same day with the same prop... Old Man Hutch said, "If I hadn't seen you take it off the "C" and put it on the "D", I would not have believed it......

[Jeff_G]

Ron, I know you like one design classes but here is my take.
After WWII and the Korean war Americans got into participating motorsports in a big way. Whether cars or boats. As a kid growing up in the 60's in Miami I had at least 4 or 5 friends who's fathers dabbled in Stock racing. At that time a homebuilt boat could be just as competitive on the local level as the "factory" built models. Motors were cheap, readily available, and not very compl;icated to get running on a boat to race. Set up wasn't anywhere near what it is today and props were not as refined.

Then times slowly changed. Boat racing really didn't keep up. Peoples habits changed. The sport became more complex, less races, more expense and the local racer just couldn't keep up.

Can we have a major turn around to the days of the 50's and 60's? I doubt it. Not unless society as a whole changes. But we can work with what we have.

You are probably right in if we had kept one design classes and regulated motors and props it may have done better longer.

[2us70]

Ron there are other reasons than injuries or fear that cause drivers to give up racing. In my case it was purely money. I found myself driving obselete equipment and unable to bear the cost of new boat ,motor,props,ect. As I was unwilling to be just a field filler or back marker I just kind of drifted away. I sometimes still miss the driving but the financial cost was just too much.

[Ron Hill]

T2X, you are right in that money can run people out. (Including us in Formula One)...I was thinking "Grass Roots" more like the kneeldowners. See, I feel the kneeldowner have not addresse safety as much as tunnel/offshore.

They have gone to "cut suits" but they still don't have breakaway pickle forks...

Money is always a problem...not enough...

Would a One Design Concept get your attention?

Somehow a cool little Mod Vp type oat, capsule with a 2006 250 HP seems like it might fly!!! ("FLY" as in become a class!!!

[T2x]

Originally posted by Ron Hill
T2X, you are right in that money can run people out. (Including us in Formula One)...I was thinking "Grass Roots" more like the kneeldowners. See, I feel the kneeldowner have not addresse safety as much as tunnel/offshore.



How did I get into this?


T2x

[espen]

Hi !
I think boat racing could be number one ,competing with all other spectators sport ,no doubt to it.
Here in Norway boat races are set up by people interested and done for free in their spare time.
Its almost impossible to know when or where a boat race is without beeing a racer and get invitation to races.
Formula 1 was not a success before someone took the TV part serious, lots of cameras a good tv production competing with
other temptations in the TV world.
I would like to see boat racing to be first with inboard cameras in all boats off course,telemetry displaying vital datas when the boat is in the wiew, g-forces,trottle position,fuel left,heart rate ,how big grin :-) +++
intervievs of all racers ,tec talk,testing , get to know the racers.
Boat racing can be done without huge instalations, in harbours near or in Cities. F1 cars has Monaco gp ,boats could use the water.
The interest for motorsport is increasing in Norway.
Make rules that uses the creativity in the racing comunity to serve
the purpose of making clean ,fuel efficent boats , fuel limits?
In cooperation with EPA?
Thanks for listening.
Espen

[Ron Hill]

OPC, when it was Outboard Pleasure Craft WAS grass roots...

You went to the boat shop and bought a rig and went racing...

ESPEN---Good points on EPA Friendly racing...but not easy...Like, do you let people race to see how far they can go on 20 gallons? I know Jimbo flys model airplanes in a "Lindegerg" class, where the winner stays in the air the longest with one tank of fuel...

[Jeff_G]

TV is not the only answer. TV feeds egos, both sponsor and drivers and raises public awareness. TV while important is not what is keeping this sport back.

In one national survey after another on different subjects the question of leisure time comes up. The lack there of. We are continuing to work longer hours giving us less time for recreational activities. Couple this with the proliferation of televised and spectator sports and the public has too many choices.

Bill France Sr. once stated to Charlie Strang that boat racing would never take off because we didn't have stadiums. We had to depend on the public's lakes and rivers.

If we want racing to grow we must invest in closed spec built lakes and stadiums.

This is an idea the IHBA has been persuing. Thay are trying to put together 10 investors around the country to build these facilities and IHBA will guarantee them events.

This is the only solution to our problems. That and where the equipment will come from.

If an area has the equivilent to the Saturday night track and events are managed properly then driver participation will grow. Once the numbers get to a certain economic point then boats and motors will be built. But it has to be feasible to the manufacturers.

The number one reason for lack of participation in my area here in the SE is the lack of races and distance between them. Add to this entry fees of $100 to 145 and no prize money it is no wonder drivers drop out.

A low budget racer can easily drop $400 to $500 per weekend!! That my friends is just too expensive. Everyone wants their piece of the pie. The race club needs entry fees to pay for the race. Usually because there are too few to do the leg work to get sponsors. The sanctioning body needs their bills paid. There again no sponsors. And finally the commissions are so protective of parts to keep perspective sponsors out.

Name ONE sponsor of a APBA race category. One that actually helped defray expenses. That is where we have let all of racing down.

We will never be NASCAR but we sure need our own Winston Cup.

[T2x]

The funny thing is that the Prop tour has a better TV product than Offshore for the average couch potato......At least you can understand it...and over time get to know the drivers well enough to be a fan....(They tend to hang around longer than the offshore big wallet guys).

In spite of that, offshore currently has a bigger sponsor base. Maybe OPC should aim its events at more glamourous TV friendly locales....... Atlantic City has a lot more appeal than Kankakee. Miami Vs St Louis...ditto...... Hilton Head vs Saginaw....etc, etc.

Why? because sponsors and their guests would rather stay near world class golf, gambling, etc....... Las Vegas made sense......but it's not exactly a performance boating capital.....and it is only one stop in a string of less than glamourous locations. While TV can compensate to a point...it cannot create a silk purse out of a sows ear......even if certain announcers can create a boat race out of an offshore parade;)

Just my.02.........

T2x

[Jeff_G]

You're right to a point. However if you look at Offshore they can produce larger numbers of boats and while they aren't my cup of tea compared to OPC they are big fast and flashy. Even the boats are too.

It's hard to argue with dollars too. Just look at the Savannah event last year. It was to have been a OPC event and negotiations were underway but offshore got involved and sold them a bigger better? show. They also poured their money into the event.

PROP shows up with maybe 15 boats. How many does Offshore bring. That equals a lot of hotel nights and BIG bar tabs!

Stadium type racing for OPC, the only salvation.

[Powercat]

This was one of the major factors in PowerCat and my dad
getting out of racing, Every PowerCat that was ever raced
came right out of the same molds as the family fishing and
sking boats sold to the general public... Even the last 4-pt
hydro that was made had concessions included in the design
so that it could be used as a practical ski boat for sale to any
and all buyers and be safe. Sure some were radically modified
by us or the owners if racing was all they were to be used for,
but the link to the original pleasure craft was still there..
When this started to change in racing it was no longer of benefit for a company like Powercat to be involved. Its the same old deal "Race on Sunday what you drive on Monday"
Danny Leger
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ron Hill
[B]OPC, when it was Outboard Pleasure Craft WAS grass roots...

You went to the boat shop and bought a rig and went racing...

[T2x]

Danny/Jeff/Ron:

There are really two conversations and two pools of racers involved here:

1. The Grassroots guy for whom TV is a vanity item, and really has very little to do with his activity, other than to record it for posterity.

2. The Pro, who lives and dies on sponsorship, exposure, name recognition, and publicity.

The problem is the powers that be have tried to cater to both groups with a single vehicle, ending up with the mess that we see in racing divisions today.

T2x