2-Stroke V6 Timing/Ignition questions

[OverPowered]

I am looking for someone who can explain to me how the Ignition triggering works in a 2-Stroke V6. (My Motor is a Suzuki 200Hp, but I guess the basics are the same for most motors.)

Basically I know and have found out the following.

On the Flyweel there are 3 Pulser (Trigger) Coils at 120º Apart.
Then there is a Gear-Counter Coil which is used to calculate when the next plug is supposed to fire to work out the advance/retard ?
There is also a Throttle Position Sensor and Temp Sensor, but let's forget about those and Advance/Retarding for a second.

Now the interesting part comes with two magnets on the Flyweel that pass each trigger coil. One is positive and one is negative. this means that during every rotation of the crank, you would get 3 positive signals and 3 negative ones. In total thus six signals to sepecify which coil should fire. -- _ -- _ -- _ 123456 ? or 1 4 2 5 36 ?

Now my questions start as I start to get confused.
The Magnet that passes by the 1st Pulser Coil is in-line with that coil at TDC. Now I rotate the crank and the negative magnet will reach the 3rd Pulser Coil before the positive Magnet reaches the second Pulser Coil.
So, the question is, do the Positive Signals spark Cylinders 1, 2 and 3 and the Negatives 4, 5 and 6, or is it Positive Signal on Pulser Coil 1 is Cyl=1, Negative on Pulser Coil 1 is Cyl 2....
Or is it Pulser Coil 1(TDC)pos=1, neg=3, Pulser Coil 2 pos=2, neg=4, Pulser Coil 3 pos=5, neg=6 ??
See how confused it can get ? and then obviously it would have to spark at every rotation ? Does this mean that it does run in Wasted Spark mode afterall ?
Am I correct in assuming that the Firing order is 1 2 3 4 5 6 ?
Could any of these cylinders be triggered at the same time as in running dual triggered coils with say 1 and 4, 2 and 6 etc sparking together ? This could mean that I may only need to use the positive signals to trigger the three pulses I need.

Also, does it matter which way around the two wires comming from the Pulser Coils are connected ? Would this change the timing of the motor ?

Sorry for the Book :( I just need to get as much info as possible.

HELP !!

Thanx
Edmund

[Jeff_G]

You need a dedicated Suzuki guy. They did some real strange things with their motors, ignition and otherwise. Over complicated and sometimes dangerous.
Like the motor that had a electrnic speed sensor. All the throttle did was open the carbs. If it acted up it could run WOT in idle upon starting!!! 7 maybe 8K! Then if you turned off the key or pulled the kill switch nothing happened You had to choke it off. Piece of dangerous crap!
But that's just my opinion.

[Sorry Dog]

Jeff you must be talking about the microlink dealio on those which I think (not totally sure) all v6's had. I remember your story of it going crazy on you while you were trying to load it but I don't understand how it could make 7k with the butterflys closed.
I think Overpowered must be talking about the DT200 that he was inquiring about a powerpack for. (By the way, Overpowered, I might have a lead on a used powerpack from a 175 but should be the same part number. Brown's point marine has an online PDF parts book for suzuki so you can check #'s and I also have a factory manual so I'll try to scan a schematic for you next week if you want.)

I'm interested in the answers to your questions as well.

Mr.Agnew don't you work on these ginsu outboards?

Well maybe not- I figured maybe you sold me that 200 cus you lost your metric timing light.

[dan agnew]

i lost my 42# adjustable bammin tool and so i let you have the toy!! i do work on them but i would need to consult the board of weights and measures to find the exact opening on my adjustable metric pipewrench so i can again set the delicate carb butterflys.
i will try and research the ??? and see if i can come up with a good[honest] answer.
jeff it was my understanding the trouble with the wfo suzis was a emi problem that was screwing with the electronic links. kinda like the fly by wire helos the usa produced a few years ago. u know the ones that a kid with a gameboy could take over and fly into the dirt!
hunter the one time i saw wfo on a idleing suzi it actually was in no load. you could pull the kill switch and it would just keep on screaming as long as it was out of gear. it would kill itself as soon as the carbs came back to closed and the timing was sky hi. it would take a few seconds though and you were bailing hoping one of those sledge hammer sized pistons and rods would miss your brain bin.

Danny

[OverPowered]

Thanx for the replies !!

Yes, I'm looking to find some info on the Suzuki DT 200 V6 Non-EFI with Microlink Ignition specific and I thought that all these V6 Outboards should basically use more or less the same kind of setup, obviously not.
I even tried the CDI from a Yamaha 150 V6. I was able to produce spark on all six cylinders, yet I could never get the motor started. I have to add though that my Fast Idling Carb/Selenoid had also died...

It seems like the 175's Unit should work fine. I downloaded the Parts Catalog a long time ago and also have another Suzuki Manual. The Part Number seems to be 32910-88D00, although I don't think it's visible on the unit itself. or at least mine wasn't.

I have been trying to sort out the basics of this ignition for a while now, but haven't found anyone who really knows thae whole thing. So, as soon as I have all the information I'll galdly post it or set it up on a website where anyone can reference it.

Any input would be great !!

[Jeff_G]

Danny it was a no load condition. Lower unit in water, on trailer. Turned the key to start and immediately the rpm went sky high over 6K. turned off key, motor kept running. Pulled kill switch motor kept running. Turned key back on and choked it off. Well over 6K close to 7! Yes I ducked thought the motor would bail.

Talked to the owner and it happened to him twice before. Piece of S**T if you ask me. But no one asked me.

[Sorry Dog]

Danny - sounds like your the Zuki expert now since noone else answered and you don't think there are a piece a **** (or do you?)
BTW- can I borrow your pipe wrench. I need to tune up the girlfriend's Highyunday.


Anyway I had a toyota once that would freak for half a second like that and that was a bad TPS. Bit I think that it says something for the motor that stayed together at 7k.


Overpowered: somebody already got the CDI I was thinking of but I see them on ebay every now and then.

[OverPowered]

Damn, Thanx for looking anyway.

Anyone else have anything for me ? Or any answers on my Timing questions ?

[dan agnew]

sorry i just spent the last two days workin on a zuki v-4 i just sold [sorry sorrydog] and getting sammys 1/4 master running, march in fla is comin up real quick, but i will sit down and study the manual some and try and reply by end of weekend.
hunter if i am the zukpert we all in trouble, maybe just cuz i admitted to working on em huh?
jeff, yep i cannot understand how it would runaway under load, seen em do a bunch of wierd ****.
just recently had a customer selling his v-4 looper omc brought his boat by shop just to run on hose prior to meeting his buyer at our ramp. he cranked up and it ran about 20 min on hose ok, no problems, i was in a boat at other end of shop and could not hear if bilge pump was running in depths of bilge so i asked a friend to walk to other end and get the looper guy to shut it off for a second. i heard the engine slow for about 1 second but continue runnin. my friend says he turned off the key and pulled kill switch but keeps running. i say ok choke it down, he comes back and says he tried but it will not die. so i say get my plastic pliers and pull a couple of plug wires, ok so he goes back and tells him i say pull couple plug wires, he comes back about two minutes later and says he did but still running,what now? i told him dont pull and put back on but leave off. he did that it still running with ALL FOUR WIRES OFF, will not stop. so i now get out of the boat walk to other end of shop[about 10 minutes now gone and look yep still running without any spark! pulled the fuel line loose and about 3 minutes later it died. cranked it back up and shut it down with kill switch and key switch about 10 times ok. he demoed the boat and it ran perfectly for new owner!!

Danny