21 skater speed with 225?

[skatersoon]

I have a chance to get a really mint ProMax 225. Looking into a 21 Skater very soon. Any ideas on top speed with a smaller motor like a 225 Thanks!

[beer30]

The question will be whether the engine will have enough power to get the boat to pack air. I would think it could push the Skater to mid 80's lightly loaded, any type of load and you will have trouble planing and packing air. Chuck

[Rayzor]

The question will be whether the engine will have enough power to get the boat to pack air. I would think it could push the Skater to mid 80's lightly loaded, any type of load and you will have trouble planing and packing air. Chuck

100% agreed! Having owned one (21 Trick) with 300XS on it, I wouldn't recommend a pleasure Skater 21 single with anything less than a 2.5/260 or 3.0/250XS. The boat I owned previously had a 2.5/280 on it and ran a best of 106 - and ran the same best of 106 with my 3.2/300 on it. These numbers are deceiving though, as just adding a 200 pound passenger will drop top speed by 4 - 5 mph, and the acceleration (even w/ the 3.2/300) of these single engine 21s is lackluster at best. They are great boats for their size with singles on them, but they need all the horsepower they can get when setup in this configuration. That motor you have would be a much better fit on an STV or Mirage imo.

[LakeTrash]

Hate to agree with anyone from California but - Razor is right.

I have a 21 Jones from 1978, which was the insperation for all the rest, with twin 225 ProMaxs. Find one more and you will be a seriously happy boater.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn226/LakeTrash96/77.jpg

LT

[Trimmed Out15]

I have a great 21 Skater for sale with a 15" 300x on, you will be very pleased with this boat/power package.

[tux974]

Not looking to get into a pi,pi contest but with a healthy 225 PM (approx 245hp) should be OK. I will agree a 280,300,300X,300XS would make a better package the PM power to weight ration will do just fine if propped correctly. Keep in mind the 21 originally came with 200,2.4 EFI(245hp),2.5 245,260. The 280 or 3.0L's never existed back then.
My first 21 Skater came from Ocean Outboard with a 2.5 200 and it ran close to 80 with a 28 Hoss.
LT, IMPO with twins 225PM's great bullet proof setup :thumbsup:.....Just my 2 cents.

[pyro]

You'll be lucky if it runs over 65-70 with 3 adults on board.

[eli]

if your going to have such boat give it some power with 225 you will never get over the hop so you will be a 70 mph boat at best unless thats ok with you till you get your socks blown off ,21 skater with twins or 300 x in my book

[Capt.Insane-o]

Buy the one 225 and start looking for it's twin.

[skatersoon]

Thanks sounds like a 300x would be the best setup. The 225 would be temporary until i can get something bigger.

[beer30]

I am looking forward to seeing what your results are with the 225! I hope they turn out well for you. Chuck

[chrislopez1313]

I have to say, less than 280 hp on one of these boats, and you will be fustrated as hell.
Unfortunately these boats porpose like hell at 60-75 mph, and with a promax i fear 85-90 is gonna be ur top end number.
Ive also seen some of the heavier boats suffer even with a 300. Takes forever to get out of the hop due to lack of acceleration.

Still a great boat for rough water, But would really suggest 300hp.
Good luck
Chris

[pyro]

85 with a 225 on a skater, lol... I'd like to see that.

[BUZZIN' DOZEN]

Back in the day, Powerboat Magazine tested one with a 2.4efi, 89mph

[tux974]

Back in the day, Powerboat Magazine tested one with a 2.4efi, 89mph

Jeff, :iagree: Good info. Like I mentioned above 280 and 3.0L never existed back then, we still went boating and found ways to make them go! The only other choice back then was the OMC V8....Not for me though. Lets not mention the CLE's breaking skegs before the sportmaster.
Alot of the testing was done here on the Island @ Ocean Outboard.

Pyro, Pyro....Have you ever owned or driving one? You seem like you have lots of experience with them.
A fresh 225PM will be very close to a 2.4 EFI in power. Someone posted a while back a dyno sheet showing 248hp from a 225PM

Just a little of my back ground with the two I owned.
~One I sold with a 2.5 200 to Jay from Mariner Racing father. I wish he was around to comment. His father swapped it for 280 when they came out then sold it to At100plus, Mike sold the 280 and bought a 300X from me for it.
~The other I also sold to a local guy with a 2.4 EFI who then sold it to Alaskastreamin (sp). Not sure if he changed the motor but it then sold to Propster.
Yes, a 15" 280 or a 15" 300X for low CG would be a great choices and with twins and you have a weapon :eek::D:thumbsup:
Just my 2 cents from personal experience.

[BUZZIN' DOZEN]

Tony, wished we lived closer!

[tux974]

Tony, wished we lived closer!

Jeff, :iagree:... You have a beauty/weapon there :thumbsup:
My mechanic here has a Black with Blue panels and light Blue stripes, all original twin 21 with very modded motors....That thing is crazy fast :eek:

[BUZZIN' DOZEN]

Jeff, :iagree:... You have a beauty/weapon there :thumbsup:
My mechanic here has a Black with Blue panels and light Blue stripes, all original twin 21 with very modded motors....That thing is crazy fast :eek:
I've heard about it and seen pics, small crowd of cool boats!

[Euroski]

Back in the day, Powerboat Magazine tested one with a 2.4efi, 89mph

I have that hotboat test somewhere. Also said the speed with 2 dropped to 78-80mph.

[BUZZIN' DOZEN]

I have that hotboat test somewhere. Also said the speed with 2 dropped to 78-80mph.
The test I'm talkin' about was from Powerboat mag.

[Euroski]

The test I'm talkin' about was from Powerboat mag.


My brain error, you are correct.

[pyro]

Best case scenario, solo driver, light fuel... so what? I can run 85 with a passenger with a 2.4 EFI and a full tank of fuel.

Even with my lack of hands-on experience, I contend that a 21 skater with a single 225 promax will be a turd in real-world conditions.

I mean, really... If it can't turn, can't run fast in a straight line without porpoising.. Cant carry Three adults Over 75-80 mph... What's the point?

[fast fun 2]

Best case scenario, solo driver, light fuel... so what? I can run 85 with a passenger with a 2.4 EFI and a full tank of fuel.

Even with my lack of hands-on experience, I contend that a 21 skater with a single 225 promax will be a turd in real-world conditions.

I mean, really... If it can't turn, can't run fast in a straight line without porpoising.. Cant carry Three adults Over 75-80 mph... What's the point?
Get a decent chop and it will go by your boat like you had a plug wire fall off. And they turn just fine.

[tux974]

I've heard about it and seen pics, small crowd of cool boats!

:thumbsup: I personally did not own one because I will probably kill myself :eek:;):D


Get a decent chop and it will go by your boat like you had a plug wire fall off. And they turn just fine.

Thanks Johnny ;):D:thumbsup:

No record breaking or white knuckle rides but it will get around if setup and propped properly.

[mrcrsr]

it would work, but i think when loaded down w/ fuel and passengers it would be a dog-especially in flat water. but w/ the weight of a 2.5 vs the 3 litre the hop probably wouldn't be as bad. don't know what you're talking about w/ the turning deal, they turn just fine

[fast fun 2]

it would work, but i think when loaded down w/ fuel and passengers it would be a dog-especially in flat water. but w/ the weight of a 2.5 vs the 3 litre the hop probably wouldn't be as bad. don't know what you're talking about w/ the turning deal, they turn just fine
but....pryo knows everything!

[mercdrag2.5]

sorry Im with pyro on this, a 225 on a 21 will be lucky to hit 80!


...if a 225 will push a 21 skater high 80's how fast do you think it would push a stv? we all know rite around 100 mph. a skater is a much bigger boat and will not get out of the high 70's.


with that said it will still be a fun boat, prop it down to carry the weight and keep saving for more power!

[at100plus]

I guess I'll throw two cents in:

I wouldn't suggest it at all.

My first 21 came with a 2.5 245 carb. I don't remember the exact number but it BARELY broke 80 with 2 aboard and just plain lacked. I felt a 2.5 was just working too hard and too many RPMs and just not getting to that boat's sweet spot. I'd say a 225 Pro Max is probably very close in HP to a healthy 245 carb motor. Don't do it.

By comparison I ran a 98 Pro Max 300 for two years on that boat happily usually with 2 aboard. With two it would easily accelerate through hop (a little more challenging on glass water but I rarely had glass water). Hop would last from mid 50s to high 60s.

Put 4 people aboard with a 30 4 blade Performance Propellers prop that I loved and was a great all around prop that didn't crab and planed well, but with 4 aboard planing became difficult and it went from a mid 93 mph boat to a barely 85 MPH boat. Not that fun wit 4 aboard.

My second 21 had a 280 on it (use to be Tony's). It was a nice 280 but I found again it lacked compared to a 3 liter. I wouldn't suggest a 280 either. Dan's 24 with Single 300X out accelerated my 21 with 280.

I'd say PM 300 minimum, 300X or XS would be even better. Some day I just have to own one with twins though!

[skatersoon]

I usually travel alone. Sometimes in pairs. I may wait a bit longger an go with an x. Are the sportmasters less likely to snap a skeg like stated earlier
?

[at100plus]

Yes but they still can, always check for hairlines, snap a skeg on a true cat and the two hulls fight for which way is forward, prop walks aft end around and you end up belly up

[pyro]

Are the sportmasters less likely to snap a skeg like stated earlier?

The Sportmaster has the broadest and strongest skeg of the outboard gearcases.

Losing a skeg on any performance catamaran hull can have CATastrophic results.

(I'm slow, we both posted the same answer.) ;)

[Rayzor]

Sportmasters break skegs also. This one was on my '05 2.5/280/ROS on a Mirage 4 seater. Broke running hard through a corner. Boat didn't do anything that weird control wise, and I actually drove it home (about 25 miles) at around 45 mph.

[tux974]

My first 21 came with a 2.5 245 carb. I don't remember the exact number but it BARELY broke 80 with 2 aboard and just plain lacked. I felt a 2.5 was just working too hard and too many RPMs and just not getting to that boat's sweet spot. I'd say a 225 Pro Max is probably very close in HP to a healthy 245 carb motor.

Mike, Was the 2.5 healthy?
You do realize that the 2.5's 245/260 make their power between 7000 to 7500 they are made to work hard. The 280 could spin 8250+.
With approx 245hp 80 with a light load and 2 on board sounds correct. Cats are very weight sensitive!
BTW, The question was will a 225PM work, not what motor will work best in today's market $ being no object.
IMPO!!! any 3.0l needs to be 15" for that boat to run and fly best.

[at100plus]

Yes but Mirage has a center pod to help protect the skeg and keep the boat straight. A cat is very hard on skegs.

[at100plus]

Tony, it was a good running 245 but it had a cleaver if I remember correctly which was the wrong prop for the boat too. It did turn over 7000. With the right setup I think at 245 or a PM 225 would do over 80 but I really don't think that would be an enjoyable setup at all on those boats.

I had your old boat from Jim with nice 280 on it and the right prop/setup, it ran ok but acceleration was poor I liked my other 21 with PM 300 much better.

15" 3 liter would be great and it would definitely help at low speed in heavy heavy slop chop coming from all directions, turning in those conditions at like 25 mph was actually scary with the outboard lean (I've heard this is why many of the 21s with V8 were known to roll at low speed the motor was very top heavy). When I went to Skaterfest and got out into the open river with my 21 it was extremely rough from heavy boat traffic and I was new to the boat at the time and I was white knuckled on a low speed turn with chop coming from everywhere.

[pyro]

That's the beauty of twins on a 21-24ft cat. There's less stress on the skegs because they have counter-rotating props (no torque tabs needed, and no sideways paddlewheel forces on the skeg) and the second motor means that nothing wierd will happen if you manage to break one skeg.

If you break off a skeg on a single-motor true catamaran at speed, you're probably going for a violent swim.

[at100plus]

Yes, Mario from Island has the black/blue 21 w/twins, I remember years ago before I had a 21 he said "it's safer with twins" (for that reason) I love that boat. I came close to giving him $40k for that thing. I think he still wouldn't have sold it.

[tux974]

Prop is key, that is why I say setup and propping is very important!
If the 280 did not spool up quick then the prop was also wrong in that setup. That is the beauty of a 2.5, they spool up much quicker than the 3.0L. That is one of the reason they use them in O/S racing.
From what I hear Jim never cared to go fast and the set up was poor at best.

The other thing I like to add is, when turning stay on the throttle some to keep it from going into the turn lean. The 20" V8's and 3.0l's are a reap danger up high. Just the torque alone wants to turn the boat over.....JMPO.

Mario will not part with it. He is going to use that boat as his coffin :D

BTW, I guess we all agree that 80 is very possible with a healthy 225PM :thumbsup:

[aquacoffin125]

284945

This is my 21 skater with the 2.5 efi 260 hp. I had four people in the boat and 1/2 tanks of fuel. It was in 2-3 ft chop and we were running 90mph before the lower let go.

[quicklt1]

Where did Mario go..tried to find his shop it's empty and number don't work??

[Trimmed Out15]

Anyone have pics of the black and blue twin boat? Would love to see it. What is the top # for this boat?

[tux974]

Where did Mario go..tried to find his shop it's empty and number don't work??

He move long ago but still in Lindenhurst. Sent you a PM with contact info since he is not a SV on here.


Anyone have pics of the black and blue twin boat? Would love to see it. What is the top # for this boat?

Keith, I can get some pics for you or you can go to his shop to see it.
He runs 245's carb motors, 120ish.

BTW, for those that are still curious about how a 21 runs with a stock 225PM contact bri017 on here and ask him.

[quicklt1]

Thanks he had that boat when he worked on mine 18 years ago if its same boat..he offered me a ride
. I said hell no..

[tux974]

Thanks he had that boat when he worked on mine 18 years ago if its same boat..he offered me a ride
. I said hell no..

LMAO....One of the last time he ran it, he and I did the Hampton Hottody run and thank god we snapped a shaft :eek: We were passing much bigger boats like they were standing still :D He can drive that thing though :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Trimmed Out15]

He move long ago but still in Lindenhurst. Sent you a PM with contact info since he is not a SV on here.



Keith, I can get some pics for you or you can go to his shop to see it.
He runs 245's carb motors, 120ish.

BTW, for those that are still curious about how a 21 runs with a stock 225PM contact bri17 on here and ask him.
That thing is no joke, I'd love to see a pic if you have them. Must accelerate like no other

[tux974]

That thing is no joke, I'd love to see a pic if you have them. Must accelerate like no other

Like a turbo Porsche when boost kicks in....:eek: They are weapons not boats ;):smiletest: I will get some new ones if I get him to take it out of his storage corner :D

[Jammin Joe]

21 ft with stock 225 efi ( old pleasure boat motor ) , race trim , 2-3 ft , driver, co pilot 94 mph hand held gps and still pulling strong , great motor you have fun with it enough power to pull out of hop , best motor boat combo just don't have the balls to hold it for max speed .

[quicklt1]

Go for it.. You can always upgrade down the road..