Wanting to know about T-1,2,3,4 Mercs!

[Bryan1257]

I m curious about these motors. I read about some you guys having them and like to know all the basics, hp, displacement, cylinders, blah,blah,blah! They are cool looking. Is there a thread about them?
Thanks guys. Bryan

[MercNuts]

The only complete T4s I have heard of that are known to still exist are in the hands of 2 collectors. One is at Merton's up in Wisconsin and the other is over in Georgia. The collector in Georgia has mulitple examples of Twister, Twister1, T2, T2X, T3, & T4. Because of the rarity of the T4 this collection may be the only complete one including all of the Twisters. In addition to these 6 there was also one more referred to as a cowbell and it was the first version. I have never heard of a complete cowbell still existing unless at Mertons. The Twister, Twister1, T2 and T2X were all 100 cubic inch inlines, the T3 a 122 cubic inch 2 liter V6, and the T4 was made in both 3.4 with a few factory units having big overbores putting them in the range of 4 liters plus or minus. Horsepower estimates vary wildely depending on who is doing the estimating. Although some have guessed higher I think the Twister & Twister 1 were somewhere around 160, the T2 & T2X around 180 and the T4 around 350, all at the crankshaft.

[Bryan1257]

Thanks, where at in bama? I saw on here in 09??? an old tunnel in a field with a t3 on it maybe in the mid west and perked up my curiosity.

[JAFFA]

Hey bama bama you missed the T3
absolutley a agreat motor at the time (79/80 or so) but not really that different from the SST 120 of today
I remember going to a kilo run 77 or so and seeing a t2x doing 110mph just a std race tunnel not a factory special
I dont think the hp was so much importantant(180hp quoted above) but the 't' motors were cabable of being rev'ed out on the right boats
I love twisters have a T1 which I will post when the boat builder finally finishes the hull
love scream and fly
lol

[MercNuts]

Hey bama bama you missed the T3
absolutley a agreat motor at the time (79/80 or so)

What do you mean missed the T3?;)


The Twister, Twister1, T2 and T2X were all 100 cubic inch inlines, the T3 a 122 cubic inch 2 liter V6,

The T3 was first run on the factory boats in 1974. The cowls had a large blue T3 on the sides of the cowl. Beginning in 1976 they were available to some of the privateers and were re labeled in red with both the 1750XS and T3 logos n the stickers, both in small letters. The 1975 Team Mercury boats had the red stickers also. The first ones were probably under 200 horsepower at the crankshaft. The first ones were carb engines but the second generation had the mechanical Bendix fuel injection. Many people do not realize it but the T2X was actually developed after the T3 and at first was nothing more than a T2 powerhead adapted to a T3 mid section.

[Mark75H]

Many people do not realize it but the T2X was actually developed after the T3 and at first was nothing more than a T2 powerhead adapted to a T3 mid section.


The T2X powerhead is significantly different

[baldad45]

Can you detail these differences between the Tll and TllX ?

[Da Bull]

In the pics of Randy Rabe i saw a 1750xs powerhead adapted to an inline mid so i suppose it could work the other way as well.

DB

[MercNuts]

The T2X powerhead is significantly different

As I said above "AT FIRST" the T2X was nothing more than a T2 powerhead adapted to a T3 mid section". There is no question there was evolution to the program. Most of the T2 powerheads examined today seem virtually identical with the exception of some modifications that were likely done by owners after they left the factory. Although Mercury had the T3 prototypes up and running secretly by 1973 it would be 3 more years before they were in the hands of privateers and the 8 barrel Stinger GP and Super Strangler OMC's threatened Mercury's place at the top of the heap when compared to the T2. The T2X continued to evolve until the time that the T3/1750XS made it obsolete. As the first T3's made it into the hands of privateers some continued to flip back and forth between the T2X and T3 on the same boat until they got the T3s to the level they had reached with the T2X. It would be difficult to exactly list a cronology of T2X evolution because when examining the powerheads today it it impossible to determine exactly what changes came from Mercury and what from individual owners.

There are some noteable differences between the T2/T2X and the other Twisters and inline 6 engines. The crankshaft in these two engines was different because they shared a unique firing order not used in any other inline. They also had main bearings on every journal instead of 3 reed blocks on all other inlines. Both engines had 6 horizontal reed blocks mounted in the front half and 6 one barrel Tillotsen carbs. The first generation, frequently referred to as C6 (for 6 carbs) came with square Murray carbs but they were quickly replaced with the Tillotsens. The T2 and T2X were the only inline 6 Mercury to come with an aluminum flywheel. The only availble gearcase on either was the Super Speedmaster. There was about 4" difference in the midsection height between the T2 and T2X.

[MercNuts]

In the pics of Randy Rabe i saw a 1750xs powerhead adapted to an inline mid so i suppose it could work the other way as well.

DB

I would like to see that picture. That does not seem possible considering the rear exhaust exit in the bottom of the V6 powerhead exceeds the width of the inline 6 mid. This would require that the exhaust exit out the back of the divider plate on the V6 or ether having a box made 2 or more inches thick between the powerhead and the mid to redirect the exhaust down to the left side exit in the inline 6 mid.

[Mark75H]

The POWERHEAD is different. There is an extended exhaust cavity and longer internal runners on every T2X

[MercNuts]

The POWERHEAD is different. There is an extended exhaust cavity and longer internal runners on every T2X

Define specifically "extended exhaust cavity" and "longer internal runners". How many T2 or T2X Mercurys have you owned? How many have you personally been inside? Are these simply quotes from Ted or Ron? If you would like to drive to Alabama from Maryland I would be happy to allow you to look up the exhaust openings of both with a scope for a first hand comparison. My T2X is an early design that was unmodified by the only other owner and I have owned it for over 35 years and was involved in it prior to that. I will stand by my previous statement that AT FIRST they were basically a T2 powerhead adapted to a T3 mid.

[Mark75H]

Define specifically "extended exhaust cavity" and "longer internal runners". How many T2 or T2X Mercurys have you owned? How many have you personally been inside? Are these simply quotes from Ted or Ron? If you would like to drive to Alabama from Maryland I would be happy to allow you to look up the exhaust openings of both with a scope for a first hand comparison. My T2X is an early design that was unmodified by the only other owner and I have owned it for over 35 years and was involved in it prior to that. I will stand by my previous statement that AT FIRST they were basically a T2 powerhead adapted to a T3 mid.


You don't have to look inside, a T2X has an externally visible extension between the block and exhaust side cover.

Ron doesn't know much about Mercs.

[baldad45]

The Tll also has this extension , it is 1.2" vs a o.5" cavity on the stock 115-150 . Is this extension different between the Tll and TllX ?

[MercNuts]

You don't have to look inside, a T2X has an externally visible extension between the block and exhaust side cover.

.

Mark, both engines are identical externally. The extension is the same. If you check a T2 lower pan you will see that it is formed in that area to allow for the enlarged exhaust chest.

[Mark75H]

Thanks

[Skeet 2]

I have a T3 V6 with 6 Tillotsens with the horizontal reeds ..I wounder what HP they had??? Did merc used them before the EFI engines???

[JAFFA]

T3
What you have got is a Merc piece of history (a good piece), some say 200hp.?
6 x tc3/b? carbs on a 6 pack manifold for a merc V6. It will bolt up to a 2.5l if you want too, but carbs are old skool today. I found that the only difference between the 6 pack and standard carbs on a 2l V6 with 3x twins was way better acceleration off the mark mind you I also finger ported that motor as well. After a stint in sst 120 I eventually went 2.5 efi and never looked back. (you dont have time to change the music stations in a champ tunnel)
lol

[baldad45]

On the Tll-TllX differences we're back too upgade in carbs too TC3B , mid section exhaust tuner and later finger ports , thin ring pistons and single ring pistons . Looks like the block is basicly the same except for later finger ports and possibly higher compression . This block assy had a different part # so I assume something was changed .

[Da Bull]

I would like to see that picture. That does not seem possible considering the rear exhaust exit in the bottom of the V6 powerhead exceeds the width of the inline 6 mid. This would require that the exhaust exit out the back of the divider plate on the V6 or ether having a box made 2 or more inches thick between the powerhead and the mid to redirect the exhaust down to the left side exit in the inline 6 mid.



I saw it and it did look strange but it came from Merc that way. I`ll have to look through those pics again and see if i can find it.

DB

[Mark75H]

Yes, you have a very good memory. 10 years seems to have flown by like no time at all.

[RabidGatorFan]

I would like to see that picture. That does not seem possible considering the rear exhaust exit in the bottom of the V6 powerhead exceeds the width of the inline 6 mid. This would require that the exhaust exit out the back of the divider plate on the V6 or ether having a box made 2 or more inches thick between the powerhead and the mid to redirect the exhaust down to the left side exit in the inline 6 mid.

That thing was on here, but I couldn't find it via search. It was definitely a V6 on an I-6 leg. Weird looking for sure, but the adapter looked like it was cast and potentially factory. The cowling had an additional piece below the pan that covered the adapter/powerhead nuts that looked weird as well. If anyone can find it again, post the link please.

[JAFFA]

The T2 came on the old style (for a better name for it) inline 15 inch open exhaust mid section
The t2x came on the 6 bolt champ style mid section (12inch) with a adaptor to the inline 6 power head so it was probably still 15 inches tall because of the adaptor changing the exhaust from inline style to open V6
My 2 cents worth
I dont know if some of you old fellers remember all those different adapters that were around for the different gearboxs, mk 1's to t2, mk4 to t2 etc they were all cast ali but there was a 1/2 inch or more difference between this one or that one,
just thinking about all the the old stuff i should have kept, and today would be happy to buy
how times change

[JAFFA]

Actually when I think about the gearbox adaptors may have been for champ style housings to mk1 etc still there was at least 2 or more slighty different sizes?
Getting fuzzy after all these years (35 or so ago)

[MercNuts]

I saw it and it did look strange but it came from Merc that way. I`ll have to look through those pics again and see if i can find it.

DB

I will promise you that there was not a V6 engine that came from Merc with an inline 6 mid adapted under it.


The t2x came on the 6 bolt champ style mid section (12inch) with a adaptor to the inline 6 power head so it was probably still 15 inches tall because of the adaptor changing the exhaust from inline style to open V6

The plate which adapted the T2X powerhead to the short mid was actually only about 1/2" thick. Due to the difference in the location of the crank splines relative to the bottom block mounting surface the early T3 had a 3/4" powerhead spacer under the tuner plate to make the same drivehshaft length useable for both the T2X and T3 powerheads on the same mid. This gave the guys that were running T2X's the capability of upgrading to T3 without having to buy an additional gearcase with a 3/4" shorter driveshaft. There is over 4" difference between the T2X and T3 mid compared to the earlier T2. This meant that racers changing to the T2X from the T2 had to lower their transom height by this amount which was a major mod to the rear of most of the boats. When the T3's were changed from running the old Super Speedmaster gearcases requiring an adapter at the bottom to the new VI Speedmaster which was direct bolt on, the driveshaft length was adjusted so that no spacer under the powerhead was required. This eliminated the ability to throw a T2X powerhead back on the same mid withoout changing the gearcase also. At this time the mid section was changed from 6 bolt to 8 bolt where the gearcase mounted due to breakage. There were a few very early 6 bolt VI Speedmasters produced and I have seen at least one for sale here, but I do not recall ever seeing one on a raceboat. I believe they may have been only 2 or 3 of them made and they were quickly replaced with the 8 bolts.

Gearcase adapters: All of the T2X engines and the early T3's used the SSM which was an inline 6 gearcase. There is a thread on the evolution of the Speedmaster at the top of this page. The older 15" race engines beginning with the Super BP (when changed to a Speedmaster from the S BP gearcase) used an adapter that was about 2 1/2" to 3 1/2" in thickness. These were cast parts. All of the Twisters, Twister1s and Twister2s required these adapters. There were 2 different thicknesses something in the range of 3/4 inch different and I do not know at what time these were used but my best guess is only with the earlier Twisters or Twister1s because I have never seen the short one on a T2 engine or never seen the later style SSM gearcase with the 3/4" shorter driveshaft length. There are some great threads on here about these earlier engines and parts but the search function here has been weak lately. I will try and find a few if it is working.

[MercNuts]

Look at post #15 on this thread: http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?7717-Ex-Tuners&highlight=tuner+length

There are several interesting things shown here. The adapter on the left is the one used to place the inline 6 powerhead on the V6 Champ style mid. This was the factory Mercury T2X piece but it could be used to run any inline 6 powerhead from 1973 foward to any champ mid up through the brand new style.

The three pictures also show why it is impractical and unlikely that Mercury adapted a V6 powerhead to an inline 6 mid, especially a production style. If you compare the inline 6 adapter on the left to either of the other 2 which are V6, the placement of the exhaust outlets in the powerhead of an inline 6 is on the port side (left side of powerhead). All V6 exhaust ports are to the rear and are wider than the inline 6 bolt pattern or the housing itself in that area. This would require fabrication of a box that would be an auxilary exhaust chest to route the exhaust under the powerhead from the rear and turn it to go down toward the center and on the left of the housing. This would also create a water nightmare on the supply side. It could obviously be done with enough time and effort, but would be very inefficient and there was no reason to do it.

The search seems to be working better.

[MercNuts]

Posts #3, #6, & #10 on this thread have some good pictures of T2 and T2X.

http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?143944-twister-2&highlight=t2x+Adapter%2A

[Da Bull]

MercNuts, I couldn`t agree with more. However, I know what i saw and have been looking for that picture to prove it. I don`t know who made it or why but it looked good enough to be factory. It was in fact an inline mid with the race trim cylinders mounted horizontaly with a V-6 powerhead. I`m gonna keep looking for that damn picture.

DB

[Da Bull]

I found it. I have it in my pictures but can`t figure out how to post it. I used to know how to do this but i guess things have changed. When i click on manage attachments it doesn`t pull up all of my pictures only a small amount to choose from. If anybody has any suggestions post them.

DB

[milkdud]

send it to me and ill post it for you. I sent you a pm with my email
Conrad

[Da Bull]

Thanks Milkdud, Pics are on the way via e-mail. For those thinking it`s a fake please notice in the side pic the shift shaft is in tack. If it`s a fake they sure went to alot of trouble with that.



DB

[milkdud]

DaBull's Images.

here ya go.
Conrad

[99fxst99]

In late 1976 I rigged a 175 Black Max on my Ventura II. It had previously been rigged with a 15" 150. We looked at taking a block of aluminum the thickness of the powerhead adapter on top od the inline tower housing and machining an adapter. I overlaid the powerhead gaskets and it looked like it could be done with some Bridgeport work and some hand grinding. Other things prevailed, however, and we never pursued it. I still think it would have been a cool motor, short leg, good lower unit profile, racing trim.
One thing driving this was that the first 175s had a lower unit shaped like the stern drive unit, VERY prone to blow-out. Mercury came out with and improved shape in late 76. The local Mercury rep saw my boat in a boat show, liked it, and sent me the new housing at no charge.

[MN4V]

Looks like an adapter plate below the pan.
Mark N
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm315/MN392/1750XS2.jpg

[Da Bull]

Sure would be nice to see these shots, from the same angle, with the cowl removed. Could it be, someone put a V6 cowl on an inline powerhead?


I think maybe a inline 6 mite be to tall. Like you i sure would like to see under the cowl too. I would love to see just how they did it but more importantly, WHY! Maybe whoever posted this pic in the first place will chime in.

DB

[Skeet 2]

With the adaptor plate which looks to be 2 to 3 inches tall the drive shaft would have to be legenthed the splines would not fit into block.So it would have to have a special drive shaft I would think??? I too would like to see it with cowl off!!!