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JohnBoy
12-17-2002, 07:05 PM
This is a post concerning the repair of my Mirage R/R. There will be three repairs done during a three day period.

1. Crack in gel from chopper glass not having good wetting with resin when layed on Gelcoat

2. Left and right rear sponson last 3 feet gelcoat ground out and resprayed.

3. Grind and reglass running surfaces on inside of boat with heavy lay-up. Then gelcoat all.

Heres a picture of the crack.

John Smith

JohnBoy
12-17-2002, 07:06 PM
Tape off area.

JohnBoy
12-17-2002, 07:07 PM
Start grinding till I hit solid glass

JohnBoy
12-17-2002, 07:08 PM
More grinding

JohnBoy
12-17-2002, 07:09 PM
Grind all missing gelcoat on right rear inner sponson that had air bubbles between the chopper glass and gel. Look at the great workmanship by the dealer on leading edge. He said that gel blew off after the first month I owned the boat because I must have hit something! NOT.

John Smith

JohnBoy
12-17-2002, 07:10 PM
Lay-up three layers of 1.5oz mat over repair

JohnBoy
12-17-2002, 07:12 PM
Roll out all air bubbles and let dry over night since resin was not mixed hot for a stronger bond. Will post pictures tomorrow of inside grinding and repair of sponson. Also finish work prepping for gelcoat.

Thanks, John Smith

Reese
12-17-2002, 07:40 PM
If it were up to me I would clean up the fuzzy edges before putting it back in the water...may cause a lot of drag.:D

Seriously, nice job...

BTW, what caused that kind of fracture? Is the fiberglass thin in that area or did you hit something.

JohnBoy
12-17-2002, 07:46 PM
Reese I didnt hit anything. These boats are made by spraying the gel in the mold then a coat of chopper glass with a chopper gun and then a lay-up of bi-directional glass over that. The cracked area didnot have enuff resin to wet it so the gel was never bonded to the stronger bi-directional glass. Probally a bad day for the person who built this boat and a bad idea to use a chopper gun during any hi-performance boat building.

John Smith

VectorPat
12-17-2002, 07:51 PM
Nice job!!!! Cant wait to see it finished...No I know who to call when I need glass work:D

Reese
12-17-2002, 08:02 PM
doesn't go all the way through to the inside of the hull.

You're right someone must have been out to lunch on that day.

I think chopper guns get a bad rap...if you are a quality builder you can make good boats out of anything...mat, cloth, bi-directional and chopper.

Oh well...at least your repair will be better than the original.

bulldogdaddy
12-17-2002, 08:13 PM
well a picture is worth a thousand words! was wondering what kind of glass was in the borum now i know. chopper. at leat thats whats on the inside. i didn't know thats what it was. but i can tell ya i know its strong. when i owned my old borum i took it out in march in some high winds and waves and beat the living crap out of me! my end a black and blue arm from the throtle control,boats end ,nada:D

Hooty
12-17-2002, 08:14 PM
There's a lot more uniformity control using mat instead of a chopper gun. I can't believe anyone would put mat next to gelcoat. There should always be a layer of light weight cloth before the mat.

c/6

Hooty

rottenbrock
12-17-2002, 10:45 PM
bad workmanship is just that ! at least now its being done right !!! Ill be there tomorow to help you out. it sucks when enthusiast are more knowledgeable than manufacturers!! this is getting to be an old story that needs to end

JohnBoy
12-18-2002, 07:53 AM
Rotten, Be by at 3:30 I have an extra bunny suit with all the accersories. Grinding inside the sponsons is a bitch. Don't worry I'll supply plenty of Odoul's and the Bars.

John S

tunnelmike
12-18-2002, 07:26 PM
That sucks. Did I tell you The one I bought from him I later found out it had major repair work done he must have forgot to tell me about. The After Midnight ski racer. It was a '96 model so it must have been a Collins boat.
I found several cracks that I missed in my excitement when I looked at it for purchase. They all looked like harmless stress related stuff that didn't get any worse with my abuse so I wasn't worried about them. When I sold the boat the new owner wanted to fix one and found MAJOR work had been done to the port sponson and almost the length of the pad.
Bad enough the work was undisclosed but it was a ****ty job. No where near your caliber of work.

It made me look like an ass until he was able to believe I had nothing to do with the work nor no more knowledge than I told him before he bought it.



Brad you built one tough boat!!!! I ran over a sea doo @ about 40mph in Florida and only ended up with scratches! I would buy a boat from you tomorrow.

Techno
12-18-2002, 11:14 PM
This is what happens when you rush into production.

Now we all have to wait for the next series!

JohnBoy
12-19-2002, 07:14 AM
No pictures from yesterday. I got real dusty inside those sponsons but thats about it. I only finished half the grinding. Will put up pictures later today of finish work and gel on outside repairs.

Rottenbrock:

Thanks for your help yesterday you can tell who your real friends are when your boat is broken. Don't worry that rash will go away in a couple of days. I told you to take off the gloves and don't touch it when you take a piss but you didn't listen. Also Buddys on the way to the vet. He's pissin blood again. Sucks!! Call Me!

John Smith

Liqui-Fly
12-19-2002, 11:04 AM
How are you going to do your gel? If you haven't decided yet I would visit
www.minicraft.com

They'll set you up with a kit with the different levelers ect and color match. They even have gel coat in an aerosol can.

David

JohnBoy
12-19-2002, 11:42 AM
Fly, the gel coat will be done by a professional since i want a good match and finish. Thanks for the URL

John Smith

Liqui-Fly
12-19-2002, 11:46 AM
You might be suprised. They got answers and solutions for everything.

David

Tom D.
12-19-2002, 11:50 AM
I'm no glass expert but I have been doing some reading on glass repair. I read that you should drill a hole at each end of a crack to stop the crack from going any further. Also that cutting between the two halves of a crack with a jig saw or cut-off wheel to releive the preasure on the crack so the two halves line up. Then do your glassing. Any thoughts!

Tom

Liqui-Fly
12-19-2002, 11:53 AM
Doesn't seem like that would make sense with bi or multidirectional composits. I could see it in solids (metals, resins)but doubt it in composits. Where dod you get this info from?

David

Tom D.
12-19-2002, 03:33 PM
Why dose this not make sense to you Fly?

Liqui-Fly
12-19-2002, 03:44 PM
The holes it would seem are there to put an end to the propagation of the crack which usually deals with the crystallynity or lattice structure of a material. After further review though I've realized that the gel coat itself is a homogeneous layer and could crack independent of the underlying layers. So in dealing with the gel coat itself I find the aforementioned may be useful techniques but in a composit system I do not.

In this particular instance it appears that the composit itself had failed in a different manner for different reasons.

Tom D.
12-19-2002, 04:02 PM
OK! :cool:

rottenbrock
12-19-2002, 05:30 PM
liqui fly you talk like youre a polymer chemist or something:)

you make alot of sense!!!

JohnBoy
12-19-2002, 07:16 PM
Grind repair

JohnBoy
12-19-2002, 07:18 PM
measuring with straight edge. repair needs to be concave and filled with gel

JohnBoy
12-19-2002, 07:18 PM
Block sanding for smooth finish

JohnBoy
12-19-2002, 07:19 PM
apply gel thick gel with brush. and let dry.

JohnBoy
12-19-2002, 07:21 PM
block sand ruff gelcoat down to original gel.

JohnBoy
12-19-2002, 07:22 PM
Matching gelcoat. Using blue and red took three times

JohnBoy
12-19-2002, 07:26 PM
Finally one more coat brushed gel. let dry over night and light sand then two coats of correct gel color to finish. Finished after dark so no pictures till the morning. Bottom sponson gelcoated too and finish work will be completed tomorrow. The inside grinding is a lot more involved that I thought and will probally be completed with glass and gel Saturday or Monday.

Thanks, John Smith

Liqui-Fly
12-20-2002, 09:02 AM
Very nice. Thanks for taking the time to share.

David

sho305
12-22-2002, 10:28 PM
Excellent post, thanks! I never take a chance stopping the crack. I just grind until there is no crack anymore.

JohnBoy
12-24-2002, 07:59 AM
Well you guys probally won't believe this. I was shocked when I found this! Most of the outside repairs of my Mirage are close to completed. I thought I would grind off the white/splatter gel coat on the inside of my Mirage and lay some mat on the inside for reinforcement. Well I have barely got off the white inside gel and started to see light as I popped through the outside gel in numerous areas. In some areas the inside glass to the outside gel is less than 1/8" thick only in the areas where I have minor stress cracks. What the hell is going on here. I will post pictures later this afternoon. I have hired a glass expert and he is going to reglass all inside running surfaces on the back 3 feet of the hull. He looked at the hull yesterday and said I was very lucky the boat didn't come apart at high speed. He said if the builder would have added an extra 1-2 pounds of glass (which is a lot of glass) in these running areas the boat would have never had any problems. He looked over the entire hull and said the hull was built very strong except in the left rear sponson. I think I will start a new thread with the newer pictures of inside repairs. We will be playing another game of frosty the snow man today if anyone wants to help with the grinding (Rotten).

Thanks, John Smith

Liqui-Fly
12-24-2002, 08:36 AM
Guess it's hard to lay it down even with a chopper gun. That could of hurt if that boat came apart. Is there any cloth or is it all mat or chop?

David

JohnBoy
12-24-2002, 09:32 AM
Some areas have no chop just gel and a very thin single layer of bi-directional. Other areas that are very strong have gel lots of chop and the bi-directional. The thickness of the hull varies from thick to thin on the left sponson and both bottom inside strakes are very thin only on the vertical sides.

John Smith

sho305
12-24-2002, 10:38 AM
Man that sucks. It will be right now though. Must be they ran out of beer that friday, just when they got to that corner?:eek: If you want it right, ya gotta.....do it yourself:) I get so tired of that. Quality? Was dat??? I see it everywhere.

JohnBoy
12-27-2002, 07:11 AM
Here are the pictures of the inside repairs. This one shows the thin area that I cracked to the left. The red circle is a area that I punched through while grinding off the white gel on the inside for add glass. You can see I hardly got off the white gel before going through.

John Smith

JohnBoy
12-27-2002, 07:12 AM
Outside shot of hole through glass

JohnBoy
12-27-2002, 07:13 AM
Talk about a tight fit grinding inside the back of a Mirage

JohnBoy
12-27-2002, 07:13 AM
another tight fit pic

JohnBoy
12-27-2002, 07:14 AM
grinding

JohnBoy
12-27-2002, 07:14 AM
More grinding

JohnBoy
12-27-2002, 07:16 AM
Today I will be laying lots of glass in the back sponsons running area then gelcoat complete inside and finish gel coat on outside.

John Smith

Wile E. Coyote
12-27-2002, 07:23 PM
I have ALOT of respect for you man....I've been there and hell yes its a tight fit...at least you have a monkey suit and mask. I hope all works out well with this repair, good luck!

JohnBoy
12-28-2002, 06:28 AM
All inside glass work and gel are completed. Here is some pictures. I used 1.5oz mat and 44oz bi-directional.

John Smith

JohnBoy
12-28-2002, 06:28 AM
Wet surface with resin

JohnBoy
12-28-2002, 06:29 AM
lay glass

JohnBoy
12-28-2002, 06:29 AM
glass work finished. wait for 3 hours then gel

JohnBoy
12-28-2002, 06:30 AM
Apply white gel coat with paint brush let dry

JohnBoy
12-28-2002, 06:33 AM
trying to match outside gel. Looks like I need more red. I will block sand outside today and enjoy a boat ride. next week I will spray one thin coat of gel with the correct color and finish by buffing entire boat and waxing. Now on to hooking up Wayne Taylor SDS system my wife bought me for Christmas and hit the water by 12:00p.m.

Thanks, John Smith

LakeRacer99
01-30-2003, 11:52 AM
Hey Johnboy, I may have missed the post but, is this a Collins or Mullins boat?
Thanks,

stang
01-30-2003, 12:21 PM
going to the lake sat either hillsdale or table rock to run the Q-shot. its going to be warm sat , need a fix let me know if you are going to run Jim S

JohnBoy
02-01-2003, 06:02 AM
LakeRacer99,

This is a Mullins boat. One of 3 that where made defective. Don't get me all fired up again.

John S

sho305
02-01-2003, 08:38 AM
Sucks that they messed up your boat, but thanks for the very informative post on the glassing repair. Great job! Don't be afraid to show us a pic of more of that nice looking ride.:)

JohnBoy
02-02-2003, 07:38 AM
Ky River Rat, Hopefully Mike has read all the bad posts about him and make improvement the quality issues with his boats. All of the cracks on the 3 damaged boats were in different loactions. Mine was on the left gunnel, JP had his transom go, Ted lost the running surface on the right sponson. All of the cracking is where chopper glass was used without the proper mixture of resin and glass. Good luck getting it fixed by Mike if it breaks. He is the master at putting the blame on you and making you wait months to get it repaired.

John S

LakeRacer99
02-03-2003, 01:57 PM
Thanks for the informative post. This may seem like a dumb question but I am am green, so bear with me.
Is the chopper gun used for very much in the FLA Mirages? I have a TX built and I didn't think a chopper gun was used. Was this just on the outside of the sponsons?
please feel free to post more pics...

JohnBoy
02-04-2003, 06:00 AM
Texas built Mirage by Brad Collins where quality built boats. I don't believe they used chopper guns. I also have not heard of any major cracking with his boats. I will post more pictures in a week. I still have not sprayed the last finish gel coat and still have some blueprinting on the bottom to complete.

Corona Mike
02-06-2003, 10:43 PM
John,I apoligise,I didn't realize you and Mike had had such a problem.Any way please accept my appoligy.Last year I had a local company wet sand and buff my red Allison,they did a great job!I have there buisness card at the house,feel free to call me for the ph.#it wasn't very expensive---$150.00.Again please except my apoligy.Mike Tyler.

JohnBoy
02-07-2003, 08:19 PM
Mike, No apology needed. We have meet at the peace river and once at shell island. Look forward to running with you and watching you hang that ally out. Thanks for the info on the wet sand and buffer guy but I have decided to do all my own work so I can only blame myself when something goes wrong.

John Smith