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MagicFloat
12-17-2002, 06:17 PM
The late John McCall built us an SJ and an SG wood tunnell in 1974.Over dinner we talked about some of the projects he had done, one in particular a " Flying Boat" for Carl K.He wouldn't talk much about it other than it was very fast and crashed before it got properly dialed in. Always wanted to ask him more about it but he didn't really want to talk much about it.Can someone share anything?

Mark75H
12-17-2002, 06:58 PM
That might be the boat Rich Luhrs is thinking of from before 1960. What you know is as much I know too.

MagicFloat
12-17-2002, 07:25 PM
He mentioned once that he knew about it and he had seen what was left of it. Got the impression that if he told me he would have to kill me:). I don't understand the secrecy. The boat did exist. John McCall(Rest his soul,he was a genius,many of his records are still intact)Had something to do with Carl K wanting a boat that actually flew like a plane but would touch the water enough to still be considered a boat to set records.If T2x is lurking maybe he will enlighten us.

Ron Hill
12-17-2002, 11:41 PM
I'm sure this ISN'T the "Flying Boat" you guys are talking about!!!!

Ron Hill
12-17-2002, 11:43 PM
Seriously, I was thinking with today's Up and down transoms, this concept should be looked at again. In France some sailboat went like 48 mPH with a hydro foil!!!!

2us70
12-18-2002, 07:38 PM
If the are any pictures of John McCalls boats out there please post. I have a few of my 13 SE class V bottom and some of my 13 tunnel. There should be many other pictures from the late 60s & 70s that old McCall drivers like myself would enjoy.

Mark75H
12-18-2002, 10:45 PM
Such as this?

2us70
12-18-2002, 10:51 PM
Yes just like that. Who's boat was it? Art Kennedy maybe?

H2Onut
12-18-2002, 10:52 PM
YOur pictures and comments never cease to amaze me.

NEVER EVER stop posting.

Mark75H
12-18-2002, 11:18 PM
Sorry I don't know whose boat either of these are. I think the race was in Minnesota in the early 70's. The motor in the pic above is a 1969 Super BP with the adapter to use the Super Speedmaster, placing it in the 1970 era. . . as if the square sided McCall wasn't enough of a clue.
The one below (as correctly noted by Ron) is a Johnson Stinger with the "clubfoot" lower unit (without the nosecone we've seen on recent images of Stingers).

I have another picture of a McCall tunnel in motion somewhere, but it is small and fuzzy. But there is no doubt the boat is a McCall, it is as square as a shoe box. Look at the top of the cowling over the fuel tank and the dash cowl on this one.

Ron Hill
12-19-2002, 12:22 AM
Hate to argue with you MArk 75 H, but that is a left hand 1:1 OMC gearcase. Not Mercury prop, not OMC... The prop of choice was a Merc wheel on the 1:1 OMC...I know I sold many to OMC through my dad's Mercury account!!!

1:1 never had a cone from OMC!!!

Did McCall die of old age? This is why we need a Power Boat encyclopedia...so I don't have to ask embarrassing questions...

gemini
12-19-2002, 10:50 AM
Jim Hunt was one of John's closest friends. Jim has all the good stories on John.John was still a young man when he died of cancer. I bought a new SJ boat from John 1976/77 for Jim to run in Fla. and the old NPA races. It was OK in SJ but ran it's best in UJ. I think Jim still holds the marathon one hour record in that boat. I still have one of John's famous Christmas cards somewhere with a bathing beauty draped over one of his boats. If I can dig it up I will post it.

Raceman
12-19-2002, 12:41 PM
Jim's been up to see me a couple of times in the last several months and he keeps sayin' that he's gettin' a computer so he can get on here and play with us. He would be a great addition if he'll come on in my lifetime.

I expect he'll be back soon, it's my turn to buy lunch. I'm gonna hammer on him about the computer thing.

Raceman
12-19-2002, 12:42 PM
Ron, I think Sam's referring to the upper picture with the Merc gearcase on the Super BP, rather than the lower one which obviously is OMC.

2us70
12-19-2002, 04:45 PM
Here are a few pictures of the McCalls that I ran in SE & SD from 69 to 76. We did not have much luck with the tunnel but with the help of a couple of props from Jim Hunt & Bobby Soles we ran prettywell with the V bottom. That boat was a V bottom version of the Kilo boat John built for Paul Angel. PS if I can figure out how to attach more than 1 picture.

2us70
12-19-2002, 07:30 PM
McCall tunnel

2us70
12-19-2002, 07:32 PM
McCall V bottom

MagicFloat
12-19-2002, 07:55 PM
Every boat John built was a work of art.I doubt he ever made a lot of money from his creations,though he should have. When he finished our SJ boat in 1974 he insisted we spend a few days with him to get our driver familiar with the boat and he helped us dial it in. That was his way, his name was on the side, he wanted it to be successful.

Mark75H
12-19-2002, 08:44 PM
Here is Jim Hunt's McCall at Miami July 12, 1968

2us70
12-19-2002, 09:58 PM
I ran back in the pack in SE at the 68 nationals. Several other class winners were also in McCalls that Year. Hugh Spencer in SD, Bobby Drewery in SG And Ricky Lindheimer in SH .

Ron Hill
12-19-2002, 11:54 PM
I heard from my AME 4000 friend, from AShland, that Stan Stauffer had been killed in a snowmobile accident...maybe, 20 years ago. Bill Downard (heart attack), but the rest are still alive, aren't they?

Titus doesn't count...he's half dead!!!!! Just joking Jeff....He kicked my ass in Sport I at the 1967 OPC Nationals in Canton, Ohio...long before there was a football Hall of Fame there!!!

2us70
12-20-2002, 10:04 AM
Ricky Lindheimer has also died. He died young and in unfortunate circumstances. Also in looking at the list of winners in 68 I think the UU winner may have also been in a McCall. The boat I am thinking of was named Just Add Water

Oclassracer
12-20-2002, 11:52 AM
I know that "Just Add Water" has to be one of the more common boat names, but one owner that comes to mind of the early 70's is Bobby Thompson of Indianapolis, In. Does that help?

2us70
12-20-2002, 03:34 PM
Yeah that's the one. John blew that boat over at Tavares trying to show Thompson how to make it run. Cost John a big repair job.

Mark75H
12-21-2002, 10:23 PM
Can anyone name the owner of this one? I think Ron Hill may have supplied this image last summer.

T2x
12-22-2002, 09:04 AM
John McCall and the "Flying Boat".

First a little story......John McCall was the craftsman who built the original offshore Apache Cat........ He did this in collaboration with Mike Peters and they had a few "disagreements"......which in the final result proved that McCall's ideas were more on the money than Peters...The result...later Peters designs...especially the CUV's had a LOT of McCall's ideas in them.

Now to the "Flying Boat"....... I saw the wreckage at Plant 7 some years ago( probably 73-74). it was on a covered tent trailer and appeared to be an adjustable delta winged plywood craft.......but it was badly torn up...and the original form was lost. It ran only once........ probably with Jim Mertens up....(he drove all the really trick stuff)........

Mike Goerlitz showed it to me......and I'm sure he knows more.....but he treated it like a bad idea......with little or no redeeming values. I never thought much about it until Magic Float reminded me....... It seems to me that the Switzers got the flying concept right....and much earlier.

Merry Christmas,
T2x

2us70
12-24-2002, 06:50 PM
Here's one for all of who know Jeff Titus. That's him in the foreground in one of his " Oddjobs". the other guys are top to bottom :Skip Reed in a Curtis Craft, Chip Watts in a Critchfield, Bob Boalick in a Critchfield and Neil Chambers in a Magnum. Jeff smoked all of them

Ron Hill
12-24-2002, 07:18 PM
So, is Jeff in a McCall? Jeff had a Critchfield in 1967 that he won Sport I at Canton, Ohio..

Confused a little here... SJ? But they look like BP's. Were BP's considered Sport J then. "S" was modified??? Ok, answering my own question. The X-115 anf GT 115's could run in Family and Sport, therefore the BP could too....

Except for Mid West OPC racing, I never ran anything bout "S" and "T"...No rules, singel and double!!!

2us70
12-24-2002, 07:52 PM
Thats a Critchfield. Jeff always was one step ahead of the rest of them. His boats were beautifly prepared I cant remember Jeff failing to finish a race. The only time I ever knew Jeff to run a McCall was when Mercury had John build a big twin Molinari copy for Havasu. I think Jeff was one of the drivers on that boat. I seem to remember him running it in Florida once or twice after that.

brianT2
12-25-2002, 02:50 AM
getting some details from dad but i think this is the flying boat in question. picture from a coffee table power boat book i have. says 72/73 professor lippisch/mercury marine secret project.

Oclassracer
12-26-2002, 09:06 AM
That previous photo looks 60ish and I thought what I saw in Italy in 1987? was new. The Russians had built this tri-miran to replace the earlier tunnels that had a center pod. While most of the competitors in 350cc racing were using hydros(either cab overs or kneelers) the Russians had perfected the tunnel and were moving on. The UIM would not allow the movable wing so it was not there when we raced against it. It was still real fast off the dock but would start to slow down as the water got rough and would begin to fall in holes with out the wing to hold it up.

MagicFloat
12-26-2002, 10:48 AM
BrianT2,I may be wrong but I don't think that isJohn McCall's flying boat. It looks a lot like the Bede experimental airplane from the early 70's.He negotiated with Carl K. to use Merc snowmobile engines but Carl backed out of the deal. Interesting discussion about this in the book "Iron Fist"

Raceman
12-26-2002, 11:11 AM
On one of my trips to the NOA kilos in Knoxville in the late 70's, Darris Allison showed up with some butt ugly, center pod with outriggers thingy with a 4 cyl Merc, trying to set the record in that class. The boat wasn't fast enough, but shared a similar motif of these in the pics if I remember. I wish I'd been more into cameras then.

gemini
12-26-2002, 11:38 AM
Its still around

gemini
12-26-2002, 09:28 PM
This must have been about 1975 at the Knoxville Boat Club Kilos. A refined version of this boat still lives.

gemini
12-26-2002, 09:30 PM
1975 NOA Kilos

Raceman
12-26-2002, 11:26 PM
Louis, that's not the way I remember the boat I'm talking about looking. It had a stick out center cockpit like Brad's Quartermaster design, but outriggers sticking out like some of those RC boats. I don't think it had tunnels like the one in the pics.

Raceman
12-26-2002, 11:28 PM
I'm pretty sure I didn't go to Knoxville in 75, probably 76 or 77 was the first trip. I wish I'd kept up with the years more.

brianT2
12-27-2002, 01:29 AM
don't think this was one of john's but this is a boat not a plane. powered by a twister type motor with a very unique dual speedmaster lower unit. friend of my dad drove/flew it in tests, after mercury payed for his flyings lessons. wreckage at plant 7 was after it just about killed him and the project was probably shelved. saw the dual lower unit under a work bench at john's shop when dad and i stopped by on the way to a model boat race about '82. i pulled it out and said what boats used that? john and dad kind of grinned at each other and told me it was used for a straightaway record boat. don't really know if john was supposed to have that peticular piece of lake x hardware:D this however is one of john's boats. broke his back in a kilo run at portsmouth when he hit a pleasure craft wake at the end of the traps. no power trim back then notice the tuck of the motor for a high speed run, and you can tell this thing is motivating. also notice the "s" shape leading edge deck area, a few years ahead of the molinari and velden boats that supposedly started that trend.

gemini
12-27-2002, 01:42 AM
OK,the boat pictured was probably an early prototype. Brad saw the boat you are thinking of last week. Its still runable and looks alot like the Quartermaster with stepped outside sponsons. He said its only a 15' boat. Photo can be had , I think.

Mark75H
12-27-2002, 06:57 PM
Brian was the lower unit 2 props in back like the Volvo or "Deuce High" or one in front and one in the back? Any chance of finding the thing for a picture?

COMPRECBRKR
12-27-2002, 08:12 PM
many years ago i flew the boat your talking about in van.the tower had 2, 55 H style lower units without skegs @ aprox 30 degrees too a sharp removable skeg which had the water @ speedo pickup, in between the 2 lower units .the pwd. was a 6 cyl in line with pipes running alchol, c.i. dont remember.boat had 2 jo sticks [1 each side for steering ] @ a bike brake handle for throttle, @ also power lift i think [long time ago].boat had a rear wing @ at slower speeds rooster tail was hitting wing @ asit got going faster @ rooster tail got flatter @ wasn't hitting wing the boat took of like airplane.when i saw tape of accident in reverse it looked like a plane landing.

Mark75H
01-14-2003, 07:50 PM
What was the Lake X boat Renato and Phil Rolla scooped up and took back to Italy to try a record run with?

It was supposed to be some kind of outrigger boat...

Jeff Ettinger
01-15-2003, 03:52 AM
I think the wildest McCall was the one on the back of the '70 Merc catalog. My first one was Herm Hagaman from Ohio. SI boat

Jeff Ettinger
01-15-2003, 04:11 AM
brianT2 has the picture of the boat I was thinking of. That will teach me to look at all the pages before opening mouth. Thanks for all the pictures and stories.

Mark75H
02-17-2003, 12:04 AM
How about this one? I'm pretty sure the motor is a Twister or T-1

mercmack
02-22-2003, 05:02 PM
back in 1969 or 70 when OMC beat the pants off merc at Havasu.
OMC printed a picture of the Greek or Roman god with his shoe wings all beat up and exhaust pipe or horn all raped around bent up....has any one seen this picture or story and if so can they print it here on S&F......:eek: :eek: :eek:

Powercat
03-09-2003, 04:27 PM
The idea of "flying" a boat was an idea put into many boat builders heads by Carl K. This one ran well, but needed more power than was available in these early years..
Danny Leger