Westbend and Chrysler inline 4's how did they stack up.

[mk30h]

I'd like to open a discussion about West bend and Chrysler outboards particularly the 4 cylinder Tiger Shark and the 105- 140 engines. If you look at them in the 60 and early 70s. They look very modern. As a Merc Kid I like these big engines more than the OMC V4 engines pre 1970. The original Westbend 80 hp sure looked a lot more modern than the V4 engines in 1962. The area that I grew up in had a very strong Westbend-chrysler presence and these big engines really seemed to haul and actually had a nice sound to them. Funny how these engines had acoustical legs, big bore, short Stoke design, and one piece sound dampened cowling, features most modern outboards now share.. But that's the ascetic perspective, how did these engines run, were they reliable in their day (60's). We can't judge them by their more modern offspring Force as their competition was modern engines not 60's technology.

Were these engines well engineered, how did these straight fours perform compared to Merc's and Omc's of the day.

[mk30h]

The 150 stacker, nuice looking engine, but was it at all competitive?

[omc-v4]

It was a hydro in Texas that ran in upper 90s single engine driven by Howard Johnson. He also had dual and triple engine mollys.

[Raceman]

Around here at least, the Chryslers didn't have good reputations for reliability. I don't remember what specifically, but there was a Merc dealer here who had his franchise pulled and then he started selling Chryslers. A number of people in the boat club that my dad was in bought em because they liked this guy, who was a member also. It seemed like most of em either ended up going back to Merc's or made the unfortunate crossover to OMC.

As far as the stacker, I bought an ex raceboat which was a 15 Allison with a short 1500. This was a 73 model engine and was before the J engine or 1500XS. This Chrysler dealer was a friend of my dad's and I always ribbed him about the Mercs being fast. One day he called and said one of the factory guy's friends had a GW Invader with a Chrysler stacker on it and I'd better not show at the lake unless I wanted to get embarrassed in front of my buddies. (the little Ally was the fastest thing around here because there wasn't anything else besides jets and a few bassboats) Anyhow I outran that boat so bad it was really surprising. The damn Chrysler may've permanently hurt my hearing though. The only other time I ever saw one run was at the backyard (unsanctioned) races in Hazlehurst Ga sometime in about the same time period. Somebody showed up with one on a blue and white 15 or 16 Allison and ran in the back of the pack with all the Merc/Allison V bottoms, even though the Chryslers had racing gearcases and the stacks.

Nowdays, people claim the old stacker Chryslers were fast, but the only two I ever saw were in the way of traffic.

[crazy horse]

I had a friend that had a 140 Baha and he couldn't keep water pumps in it. It would overheat in a flash and I was 15 mph faster than he was.

[Ron Hill]

1964 West Bend ad...71 MPH Drag Championships...

[Mark75H]

Triple Chyrslers from the other thread:

In background (http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=153064)

[Powercat]

One of the few photos I have of a PowerCat 4pt Hydro..
This was clipped from a Chrysler add...
Danny Leger

[LakeRacer99]

Triple Chrysler Stackers...

[mk30h]

Nice picture, I'd like to see the "9 inch Bonnevile" Mid section on that beast.

[LakeRacer99]

Anyone have any pics of the 9inch mid? I'd like to see that.

[mk30h]

I also recall reading way back in the 60's that the Westbend/Chrysler 35 had set some APBA runabout records, anyone remeber- I have read it on some old 65 0r 66 chrysler brochure. Did the engine have racing lower unit? or was it some utility class?

[Mark75H]

The 35hp Chyrslers and West Bends ran in APBA Stock Outboard's "36" Runabout class where the OMC's and Chryslers had advantage over Merc's 350 Twin. Pete DeLactner and others had success with Chryslers.......snobbish hydro racers called 36 "J class for adults" because of the slower speeds.

Here is an pic of the Bonneville mid section made by Bob Florian in California. Mostly used by drag racers, but some in OPC.

[Ron Hill]

I talked to Gary Ferguson today. He is the builder and driver of the triple stacker. Gary works for Advantage Boats in Lake Havasu City. He built the boat to make an attempt on the Outboard World Speed Record.

Chet Herbert, Doug Herbert's dad, built and outboard with twin Kawasaki crankshafts. He spent a ton of money on it, but it kept breaking on the dyno.

Gary finally put the Cryslers to test the boat. At Havasu, 1967, Gary Co-Drove with Gary Gabilitch, famous Funny Car Driver....broke some record, Evinrude gave Gary three engine to run Havasu, IF Gabilith would co-drive... AS I RECALL, Gary was leading Havasu when he turned the wheel over to Gabilitch. Gabilitch made less than a lap and rolled it.

Gabilitch was later killed in a motorcycle accident.

Gary Gabilitch may have been the first driver to wear fire proof driver's suit and underwear...he was famous of something.

Chet Herbert has a four engine Bonneville Racer that he's been waiting to run for the World's Land Speed Record...

Doug Herbert, got my son into BMX racing...Doug, Jeremy McGarth, Chad Hill raced BMX at Orange YMCA all about the same time, different ages...Just FYI....

Also, talked to Bobby Carlson today, Art's son. He is now working for a boat company in North Dakota...Mostly Mercury Marine jet powered 15 to 20 feet...

Ferguson/Carlson were early movers ans shakers in outboard racing boat design...

[Raceman]

LakeRacer, I have a Merc 1000 with a 9" Parker, making it resemble a Mark75H. I can shoot you a pic in the next several days.

[crazy horse]

Here's a Parker center section. Raceman, Don't ask me about the paint job. It's not my toy.

[Bruster]

This was Gary's

[Hydrovector]

I have a friend that works not to far from me that in the back of the warehouse they have the last productin West Bends from the factory stored for the West Bend Historical Society. they look like the ones in the picture that Ron posted. I'll have to go and take some pictures of them to post.

Mike

[25ss]

Was just out at my local outboard repair/ scrapyard.

Was talking to the guy about odd motors & he showed me a 150 chrysler/ force that is a 5 cylinder.
It has 3 carbs two feeding 2 cylinders each & one cylinder has its own carb.
Never seen one before Dont know what year?

Dale.

[2us70]

Gary Gabilitch set a land speed record in a rocket car. I don't know how that translates to driving an outboard tunnel boat but it seemed back in those days it was not uncommon to have guys from other forms of motor sports just jump in try to drive those boats. The results were mixed at best.

[Raceman]

"how did these straight fours perform compared to Merc's and Omc's of the day?"

They were cheaper. I think that's the only positive comparison.

[Ron Hill]

The only car driver I recall looking like he knew where a boat was to be run was Jim Hurtibuis (Spelled that wrong)...Herk could drive, had a custome twin engine Wickens hull in the 1969 Havasu Classic, was right up front until the tunnel wall caved in..

Gary Gablitch, made one lap in Ferguson's triple engine (Evinrudes)...and rolled it... Ferggie was leading the triple class up to the pit stop... Craig Breedlove made a half lap in Ted May's twin McDonald and blew over backward.....

Robby Gordon could probably drive a boat...

Eddie Lawson scared me when drove, of couse, I ain't much for riding....

I don't agree with "mixed Results"...I say car drivers can't drive a boat...

[Powercat]

I remember Mickey Thompson trying boat drags with a twin Pontiac powered hydro. Launched the boat at Marine Stadium in Long Beach, headed for the milling area behind the start line and
let off the gas and the following sea filled the boat with water and
sank it before he ever made a pass..... They dried it out and added a big sheet aluminum wall to keep the water out but the
boat never ran competitive....
Danny Leger

[Ron Hill]

I remember the boat and the regatta....I think it was billed Mickey Thompson's Race of Champions...I guy got hurt in C hydro, my brother jumped out of his boat to help him, in fact his name was Hap Sharp.....No, Hap Sharpe did drive C Hydro and later race cars....

no, matter, as they pulled my brother's boat in, without a driver they turned the boat over....

I think it was the FIRST and LAST Mickey Thompson Race of Champions....

Talk about billed, I had my boat in the Mickey Thompson Speed Show for a week and got a bill for $189.00.

[Mike Bruton]

It was a hydro in Texas that ran in upper 90s single engine driven by Howard Johnson. He also had dual and triple engine mollys.
The boat you're reffering to was the Hot Canary. A 13' Ron Jones hydro w/a fuel injected 150 Chrysler. At that time Howard held the record for a single OB in the 1/4 mile. Don,t remember the ET, but the speed was around 104.

[LakeRacer99]

Eddie Hill was a successful drag racer, cars and boats...



Mike, you got pix of the Injected chizzler? I have never seen one. Sounds cool.

[Ray Neudecker]

In the late 60's and early 70's Jerry Guinn was sponsored by Chrysler and showed at a number of NOA races. He at one time ran a dual engine rig when both motors would run he still wasn't competive with the single engine Mercs and OMC's.
They were loud though.

[Mark75H]

Mike, you got pix of the Injected chizzler? I have never seen one. Sounds cool.


You've seen one ... Ferguson's dual Chrysler "Twister" Carlson was injected

[Bob V]

Eddie Hill was a successful drag racer, cars and boats...

<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1:PLACE w:st="on"><ST1:STATE w:st="on">You hit that one right on the head. Eddie is a legend both on the ground and in the water. He set the standard that everyone tried to beat. I remember in 1984 when he crashed his top fuel hydro, "The Texan," on <ST1:PLACENAME w:st="on">Firebird</ST1:PLACENAME> <ST1:PLACETYPE w:st="on">Lake</ST1:PLACETYPE> in <ST1:PLACE w:st="on"><ST1:CITY w:st="on">Phoenix</ST1:CITY>, <ST1:STATE w:st="on">Arizona at about 220 mph. Those were the days before safety capsules when you were "out there." He became one of only a handful of top fuel drivers to survive a 200+ mph crash. </ST1:STATE></ST1:PLACE></ST1:STATE></ST1:PLACE>
<ST1:PLACE w:st="on"><ST1:STATE w:st="on"></ST1:STATE></ST1:PLACE>

Above all, he and his wife are two of the finest people on the earth. Below is their story...

http://www.draglist.com/artman2/publish/yesterdays_heroes/The_Racing_Career_of_Eddie_Hill.shtml

[Mike Bruton]

Eddie Hill was a successful drag racer, cars and boats...



Mike, you got pix of the Injected chizzler? I have never seen one. Sounds cool.
Sorry. I never got any pics. You might ask David Alaniz. The injection system was made by Algon. They may have some pics if they're still in business.

[Bruster]

The Mover and Shaker's boat.


I talked to Gary Ferguson today. He is the builder and driver of the triple stacker. Gary works for Advantage Boats in Lake Havasu City. He built the boat to make an attempt on the Outboard World Speed Record.


Ferguson/Carlson were early movers ans shakers in outboard racing boat design...

http://i37.tinypic.com/2d7aijr.jpg

[CALVIN]

Great thread love those stackers..a fellow in southern maryland Bill Edwards and Bill Tilton raced an E&T tunnel with a 150 stacker to a national points either 2nd or 3rd.....I remember seeing a chrysler parts catalog with parts for a 36 class carb bowl kit to convert a fixed jet to an adjustable unit..any one have a pic of that?

[Mike Bruton]

You've seen one ... Ferguson's dual Chrysler "Twister" Carlson was injected
I remember that boat. Didn't he have to drive laying on his stomach?

[Bruster]

Not in the Twister, the driver sat in a bucket seat reclined back about 20 degrees. It was a really uncomfortable boat to sit in. The front window was a long, narrow tinted plexiglass piece and there was a lot of distortation when seated, looking out. The windows in the side were just plexiglass fitted in to slits.


I remember that boat. Didn't he have to drive laying on his stomach?

http://i34.tinypic.com/2afj0j5.jpg

[T2x]

One of the few photos I have of a PowerCat 4pt Hydro..
This was clipped from a Chrysler add...
Danny Leger

I believe that's Phil Hill from Cullman, Alabama.

[Powercat]

I believe that's Phil Hill from Cullman, Alabama.
Rich, I believe you are correct, here are a couple more of his
U115 and U117 one with 4 Chryslers..
Danny

[willabee]

I believe that's Phil Hill from Cullman, Alabama.

Was it Phil Hill (famous F1 driver) or Bill Hill ?.....I remember it as Bill.

Went to a race in Quincy, Illinois, 68 I think. Was standing in the pits when two brand new Dodge Coronets with 426 Hemi emblems just a shining in the sun pulled in with their boats. They were both pulling Powercats with three or four Chryslers on them. The boats looked tougher than nails and the Hemi's sounded every bit as nasty. It was Hill and John Henry Price.....what a coooool sight that was, made you think it was Chrysler sponsored all the way. :cool:

You should remember Price, he went from the Powercat to a 18' or 20' Jones with twin stacked 1250's. He ran Havasu in 1969 in the Jones. It was white with black accent and he named it Tennessee Stud.....always claimed he wasn't talking about the boat. :smiletest: A really nice guy that owned some clothing stores in Tn.

[ironlake2]

I had experience with cryslers as our local dealer would supply them and a boat for our summer water show. He had a 15 foot crysler boat with a sport 105 on it and it was great for water skiing. It only would go 42 mph on the light boat, sucked 6 gallons of fuel every half hour but that thing had the best acceretation I have ever felt in a boat.
I let a guy try it out when I was in the back switching fuel tanks and he hit the throttle wide open before i got back in the front seat and it had me pinned to the rear seat until it was wide open. That was its only strongpoint in my estimation.
both the 3 and 4 cylinders had trouble with inner cylinders burning out even with fuel mixed at 32 to one. We had one guy who had his 75 3 cylinder for many years and no trouble but he always mixed it at 24 to one on oil.

[T2x]

Was it Phil Hill (famous F1 driver) or Bill Hill ?.....I remember it as Bill.

Went to a race in Quincy, Illinois, 68 I think. Was standing in the pits when two brand new Dodge Coronets with 426 Hemi emblems just a shining in the sun pulled in with their boats. They were both pulling Powercats with three or four Chryslers on them. The boats looked tougher than nails and the Hemi's sounded every bit as nasty. It was Hill and John Henry Price.....what a coooool sight that was, made you think it was Chrysler sponsored all the way. :cool:

You should remember Price, he went from the Powercat to a 18' or 20' Jones with twin stacked 1250's. He ran Havasu in 1969 in the Jones. It was white with black accent and he named it Tennessee Stud.....always claimed he wasn't talking about the boat. :smiletest: A really nice guy that owned some clothing stores in Tn.

Actually it was Bill Hill.......... you picky old f*rt...... :D

We missed you at OFF.............

I wound up with John Henry Price's 16 Allison that he ran briefly. His name was on the side fins in beautiful gold letters and the boat had the somewhat dumb name "Giddy-Up-Go" emblazoned on the hullsides. I was a bit thin in the wallet at that point so I removed the "Giddy-Up-Go" name, plus his last name and wound up with a boat that had the beautiful painted gold name "John Henry" on the side (after the folk song of the same name). Later on I sort of soured on "names" of any kind on my boats....until recently when all of my hulls are now called "Dust'n the Wind" (1, 2, 3...etc).....for nostalgic reasons.

You are right though, John Henry Price had some neat stuff. I think the last time I saw him at a race was in St Louis (in "76-77"?), where he was running an immaculate SST Seebold around the race course.

T2x

[Ronny Jetmore]

ron baker set a record in his viper bakc in 1972 if i remember running a 135 high performance chrysler. he told me years ago that the motor was not really an awesome motor but the gear case was awesome. you could jack it to the moon and maintain water pressure. they really are slick if you look at them. an old dealer here in maryland (tracey gardner) has some old chrysler stackers but he wantsa fortune for them. they do run, but i think he wants liek $2k a piece the last i spoke to his son.

[Mark75H]

If they are complete, I'd say $2k is not unreasonable

There isn't much special about the lower unit or its water inlet compared to other racing units or new high performance units. It has a low in the nose water inlet.

[Ronny Jetmore]

Maybe baker meant for the time period, but he specifically said that you could jack it high and maintain pressure, in comparison to other gear cases at the time, it was awesome.

Yeah, $2k just seems high for something that is going to need work, i am sure, after sitting for so long but beauty is in the beholders eye.

Hey there annapolis guy, i am about an hour from you, in soloomons. What boat are you running?

Thanks

[T2x]

While some guys on a budget had limited success with them, Chryslers were little more than noisy "speed bumps" for the Merc's and OMC's to drive around on the race course.

T2x

[Ronny Jetmore]

for whatever reason, chrysler held the record on the viper, 80mph!

[Mark75H]

for whatever reason, chrysler held the record on the viper, 80mph!

What class and time frame is this claim made for?

[Ronny Jetmore]

1972 viper record 135 stacker chrysler, jacked to the moon, spinning i think 30 or 32 pitch

[lilabner]

I raced Hill in Blue Ridge, Ga around 1961..I ran Booger Red's stack cat with some 17" Cary reverse rake props..I could pass Hill in the straights, but he zipped by me in the turns..I was LOUDER though, and when you are racing a cat for the first time at 19 or 20, that's all that mattered..fun weekend..:cool:

[2us70]

The only reasonably competitive Chrysler powered boat I can remember was Bobby Soles' "Prop Job". Bobby had a propeller shop in Palm Beach County and worked on props for a lot of us down here in South Florida. The best running stailess props I had for both my E amd D class boats were done by Bobby. He ran a Chrysler stacker on a Scat Craft that was usually in the money. I suspect that his expertise in propeller work had a lot to do with his results.