100+ mph Duramax powered 21' Nordic

[baja200merk]

This is awesome!

http://www.motortopia.com/dieselworld/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/DW-1112-CMBO-PIX-09.jpg

There are few things nicer than cruising the Colorado River in an open boat (when it isn’t 120 degrees, that is). But while many ocean-going vessels are diesel-powered, the same can’t be said for freshwater boats that are fewer than 25 feet long.

That was why Gary Posey called PPE and talked Komaromi into the idea of installing a Duramax into his 21-foot Nordic. Posey—who has had PPE install a Duramax into his own Humvee (a yellow one) and is aware of Komaromi’s classic Chevy pickup and other swap projects that PPE has done—loved the way the Duramax worked in his Humvee.

So why not his boat? It didn’t take too much convincing to get Komaromi to agree to take on the project.

Using a 2004 LBZ Duramax as his starting point, Komaromi ported the heads and held them down with a set of ARP head studs. A Garrett DCX4508 water-cooled turbo sits on a custom stainless steel turbo pedestal, which is also water-cooled and provides 50 pounds of boost pressure.

With all that water rushing by, Komaromi decided to use it to cool the intercooler, so he made one out of super nickel stainless steel and equipped it with twin zinc anodes to work with the water. The result is that the air entering the engine is a mere 80 degrees. The water that is used in cooling the various pieces exits out the wicked-looking exhaust pipe.

Measuring out to 5 inches, the stainless steel “stinger” system gets hot, but the entire engine/exhaust package is Coast Guard-legal, since no piece gets hotter than the legal limit of 400 degrees.

But here is where it gets weird: The setup uses a transmission, too. Yep, Komaromi designed a special adaptor to mate the PPE stage 5 Allison transmission to the Inco stern drive. Weirder still, there’s no torque converter, but there is a straight-through coupling of the engine to the tranny to the stern drive. This works because the action of the water against the five-bladed, 30-pitch prop acts like the converter. Using the transmission and the torque of the diesel engine allows that the stern drive is actually 1.15 overdriven, while a standard stern drive system uses a 1.15 under drive. The steering is power-assisted with dual rams for total control.

All of this means that the Nordic has a top speed of more than 100 mph at 3,800 rpm, but Posey says the Nordic can cruise comfortably at 60 mph—a speed that more suits his retired, laid-back lifestyle. And thanks to the 7 mpg the boat now gets, compared to the 2 or 3 it used to get, it can also do that cruising for a considerably longer period than a standard boat. That fuel is contained in a 50-gallon belly tank.

The rest of the boat is as it came from Nordic, except for a few additions to the dash that few other boats can boast: turbo boost pressure, RGT temp gauges and the PPE monitor.

Upon testing, Komaromi found that the diesel’s grunt and the transmission’s gear ratios put the boat up on plane quicker than anything he’s ever experienced. He says that the power that the engine produces pushes the boat to scary speeds, and the extra mpg gives the Nordic the legs to go on long trips without worrying about fuel. The setup really puts the pleasure in pleasure boating.

As a retired UPS executive, Posey now kicks it in his river-side home, but when he wants to elicit stares and countless questions, all he has to do it take the water in his beautiful—and one of a kind—Nordic.

http://www.motortopia.com/dieselworld/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/DW-1112-CMBO-PIX-10.jpg

[Rayzor]

AWESOME!!! I think the future of pleasure boat inboard power is diesel.

[baja200merk]

I have wanted a 500hp 12v cummins in a 21-25ft speed boat for years. That way I could go boating on free waste vegetable oil like the 12v cummins in my truck :D

[johnboy 88 vegas]

Always thought about this since I got a 7.3 Powerstroke. Globbs of torque and still decent fuel mileage would the way to go in a smaller rough water boat. Just wonder what kind of outdrive would hold up to the abuse from a dead stop since 800-1000 ft lbs of torque is not uncommon on hopped up diesels.

[transomsaver]

I think the Duramax is the lightest of the big 3 diesels. That would make it the best boat motor in my opinion. I'm a Cummins fan, but just think it'd be too heavy in a boat.

[Iowafshr]

Where are the videos?!

[Rayzor]

Always thought about this since I got a 7.3 Powerstroke. Globbs of torque and still decent fuel mileage would the way to go in a smaller rough water boat. Just wonder what kind of outdrive would hold up to the abuse from a dead stop since 800-1000 ft lbs of torque is not uncommon on hopped up diesels.

Arneson Surface Drives............

[hulltruth]

Duramax are great motors however 04 isnt the best one to have.They had overheating issues.Powerstrokes from 00 and up are garbage,you can pretty much just part them out like a yugo when the motor blows.

[johnboy 88 vegas]

Transomsaver I think you are correct on that note but I'm pretty sure the Cummins has the record on reliabily and still making big hp/torque numbers and the cheapest to mod atleast on the older generations. Even though I'm a Ford guy I'm impartial when it comes to the motors.

[johnboy 88 vegas]

Hulltruth we must have been posting the last one at the same time. Anyway I never claimed the Powerstroke was the best engine as I have a 03' model which has the powdered metal rods instead of the forged ones. If it ever blows it'll get the forged rods or better yet a Cummins with a Allison transmission which would make it the ultimate truck. Here ya go: Ford-good truck okay engine sh***y transmission, Dodge-pos truck but good drivetrain, Chevy-okay engine,best tranny and an IFS tears all to hell when hooked to a Ford or Dodge on the pavement. Think that sums it up but in a boat the saltwater is probably gonna be its biggest enemy anyway if its used there. I can tell you dont like Fords for some reason.

[mr fun]

1st best consideration, yanmar. but the 25k + pricetag :nonod:

considered the cummins, there is a company that makes a conversion but they do not recomend pushing it to over 250 hp, not enough as the yanmar is available up to 420 I belive, yet still compact and light.

the dura max I belive I saw on that tv show, "Stacey" somebody, claims it can make 600 ponies :cheers:

I don't see where salt would make any differance if proper freshwater cooling system is in place. still, as this a one off, probably quite costly as of yet.

I first became intreaged at the possabilities in this field after meeting a guy back in the 80's that went to england and bought perkins dump truck motors and imported them here, marinized them and sold them to pleasure boaters.

to me the hot conversion would be the 60 series detroit, saw at the miami show a factory unit at 800 hp :iagree: they regularly last well over a million miles in commercial trucks which is how many hours :confused:

thanks for the post, very informative :thumbsup:

[Rayzor]

The all aluminum twin turbo Audi V10 diesel would really be the hot ticket for lightweight performance boats, but I don't see Audi wanting to get into the performance boat market.

[MODVP22]

They did this test in a magazine 3 years ago. I'm pretty sure Imco did it to show durability of a new drive. Weight was a major set back. Interesting set up though.

[baja200merk]

Hulltruth we must have been posting the last one at the same time. Anyway I never claimed the Powerstroke was the best engine as I have a 03' model which has the powdered metal rods instead of the forged ones. If it ever blows it'll get the forged rods or better yet a Cummins with a Allison transmission which would make it the ultimate truck.

Actually all the big dog high HP cummins/duramax pullers/drag racers etc. use the dodge 47re trans and the torque shift trans/converter are becoming very popular. They are much cheaper to build than an allison and will hold more power once built. Dimitri Millard winner of the Diesel power challenge with his 1600hp duramax also now runs a 47re

Heres another 10 second duramax with a 47re

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBiMOMUpuU8


1st best consideration, yanmar. but the 25k + pricetag :nonod:

considered the cummins, there is a company that makes a conversion but they do not recomend pushing it to over 250 hp, not enough as the yanmar is available up to 420 I belive, yet still compact and light.

thanks for the post, very informative :thumbsup:

Guys are building 700hp 12v cummins in trucks and pulling 60psi of boost for long periods towing heavy loads up hill etc. They are limited to only being able to use about 400-500 of the HP because the stock cooling systems in the trucks cannot keep the motor cool at that power level towing heavy. Just cause EGT is low doesnt mean the cooling system in the truck can keep up. Cummins makes 12v marine engines that make 370hp and will run at 90% for thousands of hours with no coolin issues.

Building a 4-500hp 1000+ft-lb 12v p pump cummins would cost LESS than buying a stock duramax running take out. You could get a nearly smoke free 500 use-able hp out of a 12v and only have about 2-2500 in the motor (ask me how I know :D) that is about half the cost of a stock running take out duramax. With out the cost of a converter (prop acts as one) you could build a 47re to hold the power for ~500 now you have maybe 3000 in a 500hp power train. Problem is getting the power to the water :eek:, I would go with a surface drive since you already have a transmission for reverse/neutral. I have seen used arneson drives go for 4-500 but I have no clue if they will hold the power (doubt it :o), a 500hp 12v is usually making 11-1200ftlbs at around 2k rpm.



TDI has a few marine engines and they are awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXexRcYDKPw

[baja200merk]

They did this test in a magazine 3 years ago. I'm pretty sure Imco did it to show durability of a new drive. Weight was a major set back. Interesting set up though.

Stock would suck but its easy enough to double stock output these days. It would take a ton of CI and fuel for a gasser to make 1000ftlbs and it would be even harder to do it at ~2000 rpm.

[RB in NM]

Here ya go: Ford-good truck okay engine sh***y transmission,.


Johnboy,,,when , not if, your 00 stroke tranny goes south, like my 01 convertor shattered on mine, look up BTS trannys.. they're tough and can not beat the warrenty.

The Izusu duramax is a nice motor in that boat. I like the idea of the mpg it gets. They can be built for a very reliable 500 horses from guys I know that have em'.... PMR strokes up to 400hp before rods break. Weight differences would put the dumamax on top IMO.

[baja200merk]

My buddy just had his 99 7.3 trans done with a modified 6.0 torque shift converter a worked valve body and man that thing shifts nice! Smooth but firm when driving normally but no joke when you mash it. :thumbsup:


I agree ford makes a better truck, my dodge if falling apart around the engine :mad: If fiat pickups came with a cummins I'd own a Fiat.

[Adam McKeon]

Would have been much easier to buy one " marine ready" from Banks. Then add your upgraded turbos, map ect ect.
Just my opinion. I do like the idea of it though, I have since Banks revealed the Duramax Marine Engine 2+ years ago..
Dont know if it ever took off or not.

http://www.banksmarine.com/

[Rayzor]

Actually all the big dog high HP cummins/duramax pullers/drag racers etc. use the dodge 47re trans and the torque shift trans/converter are becoming very popular. They are much cheaper to build than an allison and will hold more power once built. Dimitri Millard winner of the Diesel power challenge with his 1600hp duramax also now runs a 47re

Heres another 10 second duramax with a 47re

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBiMOMUpuU8



Guys are building 700hp 12v cummins in trucks and pulling 60psi of boost for long periods towing heavy loads up hill etc. They are limited to only being able to use about 400-500 of the HP because the stock cooling systems in the trucks cannot keep the motor cool at that power level towing heavy. Just cause EGT is low doesnt mean the cooling system in the truck can keep up. Cummins makes 12v marine engines that make 370hp and will run at 90% for thousands of hours with no coolin issues.

Building a 4-500hp 1000+ft-lb 12v p pump cummins would cost LESS than buying a stock duramax running take out. You could get a nearly smoke free 500 use-able hp out of a 12v and only have about 2-2500 in the motor (ask me how I know :D) that is about half the cost of a stock running take out duramax. With out the cost of a converter (prop acts as one) you could build a 47re to hold the power for ~500 now you have maybe 3000 in a 500hp power train. Problem is getting the power to the water :eek:, I would go with a surface drive since you already have a transmission for reverse/neutral. I have seen used arneson drives go for 4-500 but I have no clue if they will hold the power (doubt it :o), a 500hp 12v is usually making 11-1200ftlbs at around 2k rpm.



TDI has a few marine engines and they are awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXexRcYDKPw

Arneson Surface Drives manufactures drives capable of handling up to 16,500 ftlbs of torque, so just take your pick as to which drive you would need for your application. And I don't doubt you could find an ASD drive online that would handle 1,200 ftlbs.....can't guess on the price though, as age and condition are a major factor in the used equation.

[johnboy 88 vegas]

RB and Baja thanks for the insight but the tranny was just changed out 2 years ago before I got the truck and it still has warranty from the Ford dealership it came from. It only had 60k original miles on it when it puked but thats what happens when ya always burnin down 38X15.5 tires from a dead stop so I when I got it I put some 35's back on and dropped the lift some for a more usable truck. I have no problem with the Duramaxes but I've known quite a few people that run their chips everyday on the hot setting and it didn't take long before they visited the shop....kinda like a 6.0 Powerstroke. When the tranny runs out of warranty i'm gonna do a thing or two but just playin the waiting game for now.:cheers: Thanks guys!

[njj502]

Wonder how I'd run with the pull truck engine??? Should run pretty damn good when your spinnin' her 5000 RPM!!!! :reddevil:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kS32p08hdIU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[johnboy 88 vegas]

It'd be funny to gag it next to a water pig and fog their s*** out. I get one with their window down (on land) every time I have a chance. Glad we aint got emissions inspections in Georgia:thumbsup:

[baja200merk]

Adam it would be easier to buy banks on everything except your wallet :eek:. They are so over priced thats why you dont see their name on trucks at the drag strip or truck pulls. You can put a more powerful package together for half the price. If you go over to Competitiondiesel.com and even mention banks even the moderators abuse you :p. I dont mean to sound like a douche Im jsut saying im about bang for buck (cause i have to be) :rolleyes: :D


Arneson Surface Drives manufactures drives capable of handling up to 16,500 ftlbs of torque, so just take your pick as to which drive you would need for your application. And I don't doubt you could find an ASD drive online that would handle 1,200 ftlbs.....can't guess on the price though, as age and condition are a major factor in the used equation.

I should have been more specific, the older arneson drives that come behind big block chevy and ford motors are the cheap ones I have seen for ~4-500 bucks. Those are the ones I doubt will hold up to 1k+ ft-lbs. I cant afford one of the 2 hangin off Mrs. Geico :p


It'd be funny to gag it next to a water pig and fog their s*** out. I get one with their window down (on land) every time I have a chance. Glad we aint got emissions inspections in Georgia:thumbsup:

Watch it they can write you up for excessive exhaust I have herd its over 100 bucks. Mine was pretty smokey with the 66mm turbo :eek: I down sized to a 62 and its clean as a blue-tec benz unless you mash it.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6XZ-rUbXF2I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[johnboy 88 vegas]

Don't worry I'll flip the chip back to stock if its a DOT man cause they been checkin the crap out of people that pull trailers for a living. My truck is mostly stock just a TS chip, Banks blow off,CAI,and 4" exaust and it'll only blow that kind of smoke (in your video) when its cold and on the 140 bs chip setting so its city friendly compared to yours. Dam I wish I had a Cummins:D

[baja200merk]

its got alot more fuel now that video is old but it took a while to get it tuned. I dono if you want a 12v, flipping switches is a lot easier than pulling the AFC off and changing springs until you think you know what your doing :p its a pain. The smaller turbo makes less power but more useable clean power if you know what I mean.

[river rocket]

That video reminded me of a guy I was stuck behind on the highway home the other night. He had a newer 2500 and it was just billowing smoke. I had to stay at least 8 car lengths back to stay clear. He had both lands backed up behind him. We got into some stop and go traffic and he would rev it like he thought he was a bad azz, which made me think he had done something and it wasn't that his truck was just F'd up. It was definitely ticket worthy; you couldn't see a thing in either lane and you had to gag on the smell.

[RB in NM]

hey riverrocket, there's custom tunes for the diesels that some tuners offer a "smoke' setting,,,it bellows out thick black smoke with no more hp added,,,, all for show, but it gives diesels a bad rap when people abuse it. The custom tuners TS,PHP,Wildman etc can do amazing things with electronics. and do it pretty safe and reliable. Banks stuff has blown a lot of motors as they use mainly high compression increases for more hp.

[njj502]

Its not so much high compression but more excessive use of timing causing extreme cylinder pressure and pressure spikes. Id rather have pump & line anyway!

[THEFERMANATOR]

Not trying to start an arguement here, but some of this is info is off to me.


Duramax are great motors however 04 isnt the best one to have.They had overheating issues.Powerstrokes from 00 and up are garbage,you can pretty much just part them out like a yugo when the motor blows.

04 had 2 differrent engine options, LLY and LB7. SOME LLY's experience overheating, and this was mostly for 05's(not the 04.5 as they had a lower HP tune in them). And the overheating has all but been eliminated in most of them with a few basic mods as the cause has mostly been found(turbo restriction to the turbo was one of the major causes as well as the added emissions equipment). LB7's sufferred from injector problems, so pick your poison as to which to choose.


Hulltruth we must have been posting the last one at the same time. Anyway I never claimed the Powerstroke was the best engine as I have a 03' model which has the powdered metal rods instead of the forged ones. If it ever blows it'll get the forged rods or better yet a Cummins with a Allison transmission which would make it the ultimate truck. Here ya go: Ford-good truck okay engine sh***y transmission, Dodge-pos truck but good drivetrain, Chevy-okay engine,best tranny and an IFS tears all to hell when hooked to a Ford or Dodge on the pavement. Think that sums it up but in a boat the saltwater is probably gonna be its biggest enemy anyway if its used there. I can tell you dont like Fords for some reason.

I still don't see why everybody is so hung up on the CUMMINS? I have worked on ALL of them, and had my choices of any of them when I did my swap. And I chose the DURAMAX/ALLISON combo as it is truly the sweetest combo out there to me. The CUMMINS is a great engine, but it is based off of a 70's generator engine designed to run in 3rd world countries. This is why it is so tough, but even the CUMMINS let's go at high HP levels. And the IFS in the GM has more than proven itself in the real word as being capable of holding up. GM did screw the pooch with the tie rods in the newer trucks, but a set of sleeves and the front ends hold up pretty dam good. There are sled pullers out there with them putting over a 1,000HP through them in 4X4 sled pulling with just a set of tie rods and braces in the front end holding up just fine.


Actually all the big dog high HP cummins/duramax pullers/drag racers etc. use the dodge 47re trans and the torque shift trans/converter are becoming very popular. They are much cheaper to build than an allison and will hold more power once built. Dimitri Millard winner of the Diesel power challenge with his 1600hp duramax also now runs a 47re

Heres another 10 second duramax with a 47re

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBiMOMUpuU8



Guys are building 700hp 12v cummins in trucks and pulling 60psi of boost for long periods towing heavy loads up hill etc. They are limited to only being able to use about 400-500 of the HP because the stock cooling systems in the trucks cannot keep the motor cool at that power level towing heavy. Just cause EGT is low doesnt mean the cooling system in the truck can keep up. Cummins makes 12v marine engines that make 370hp and will run at 90% for thousands of hours with no coolin issues.

Building a 4-500hp 1000+ft-lb 12v p pump cummins would cost LESS than buying a stock duramax running take out. You could get a nearly smoke free 500 use-able hp out of a 12v and only have about 2-2500 in the motor (ask me how I know :D) that is about half the cost of a stock running take out duramax. With out the cost of a converter (prop acts as one) you could build a 47re to hold the power for ~500 now you have maybe 3000 in a 500hp power train. Problem is getting the power to the water :eek:, I would go with a surface drive since you already have a transmission for reverse/neutral. I have seen used arneson drives go for 4-500 but I have no clue if they will hold the power (doubt it :o), a 500hp 12v is usually making 11-1200ftlbs at around 2k rpm.



TDI has a few marine engines and they are awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXexRcYDKPw

The DURAMAX with a 47RE is called a DURAFLITE, and they cost well over $10K to buy the initial set-up from SUNCOAST. Also they are known to eat torque converters pretty rapidly depending on set-up as some guys have to have the converters redone every 25-30 passes. The ONLY reason for switching to a DURAFLITE is that it shifts quicker than an ALLISON, that's it. The ALLISON is a tough tranny, no question about it. It tears itself up during the shifts as it is a no give gear to gear unit where ALL of the shifting load is handled via clutch packs, and there in lyes its weakness. A clutch to clutch trans MUST go to neutral for a split second between each shift, if not you get a tie up where it actually engages 2 gears at thr same time. When this happens either a clutch pack is slipped, or a hard part inside breaks or twists. A built ALLISON actually breaks during the shifts from tie up's, NOT from high HP. DMITRIO MILLARD actually dyno'd at over 1700 HP to the wheels, and I believe his dyno runs were all doine with an ALLISON backing it up. He switched to the DURAFLITE as he couldn't get the ALLISON to shift fast enough for him as his truck is heavy. There are a couple of guys out ther still running the ALLISON and running in the 9's with them for LESS than a DURAFLITE costs.

As for a running DURAMAX take-out, they can be found for $2K now for an LB7 and some LLY's. Last I checked a good running CUMMINS take-out of the same year is costing about the same I had $4500 into my complete drivetrain take-out from a running driving truck, and that was before the market dropped and prices went down. Complete running trucks with CD's on them can be found for under $5K now with late model engines. As for $2-2500 into a 500HP 12 valve, that sounds a bit low from my reading as I did ALOT of research into the CUMMINS before I chose the DURAMAX. And a mechanical engine will have a HARD time obtaining the driveability on the street that an electronic engine can obtain. My current set-up is close to 450HP at the flywheel I would guess(probably slightly higher), and run's with a light haze at WOT. This is a tune with intake and exhaust only. 500HP at the flywheel from a DURAMAX is easily obtaineable with just tuning on any of them and run mostly smoke free.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Would have been much easier to buy one " marine ready" from Banks. Then add your upgraded turbos, map ect ect.
Just my opinion. I do like the idea of it though, I have since Banks revealed the Duramax Marine Engine 2+ years ago..
Dont know if it ever took off or not.

http://www.banksmarine.com/

Last figure I heard was $60K for there marine DURAMAX combo, so OUCH! Plus they use all proprieatary controls on it so you have to go to them to get parts for it. There is a company in Switzerland selling marineized DURAMAX's though up to 500HP. Don't know what the price is on them.

[RB in NM]

You rite njj503,,, it is timing, I reckon i was thinking mercury/compression, bang..... ochit,.ouch,,,

[baja200merk]

Not trying to start an arguement here, but some of this is info is off to me.

I still don't see why everybody is so hung up on the CUMMINS? I have worked on ALL of them, and had my choices of any of them when I did my swap. And I chose the DURAMAX/ALLISON combo as it is truly the sweetest combo out there to me. The CUMMINS is a great engine, but it is based off of a 70's generator engine designed to run in 3rd world countries. This is why it is so tough, but even the CUMMINS let's go at high HP levels. And the IFS in the GM has more than proven itself in the real word as being capable of holding up. GM did screw the pooch with the tie rods in the newer trucks, but a set of sleeves and the front ends hold up pretty dam good. There are sled pullers out there with them putting over a 1,000HP through them in 4X4 sled pulling with just a set of tie rods and braces in the front end holding up just fine.


GM's weak IFS doesnt matter, they fixed that a long time ago, we are talking about putting it in a boat.


The DURAMAX with a 47RE is called a DURAFLITE, and they cost well over $10K to buy the initial set-up from SUNCOAST. Also they are known to eat torque converters pretty rapidly depending on set-up as some guys have to have the converters redone every 25-30 passes. The ONLY reason for switching to a DURAFLITE is that it shifts quicker than an ALLISON, that's it. The ALLISON is a tough tranny, no question about it. It tears itself up during the shifts as it is a no give gear to gear unit where ALL of the shifting load is handled via clutch packs, and there in lyes its weakness. A clutch to clutch trans MUST go to neutral for a split second between each shift, if not you get a tie up where it actually engages 2 gears at thr same time. When this happens either a clutch pack is slipped, or a hard part inside breaks or twists. A built ALLISON actually breaks during the shifts from tie up's, NOT from high HP. DMITRIO MILLARD actually dyno'd at over 1700 HP to the wheels, and I believe his dyno runs were all doine with an ALLISON backing it up. He switched to the DURAFLITE as he couldn't get the ALLISON to shift fast enough for him as his truck is heavy. There are a couple of guys out ther still running the ALLISON and running in the 9's with them for LESS than a DURAFLITE costs.

Thanks for clearing that up about the duraflite. What I was getting at is the fact that a full billet allison is still almost
$3,000 more then a full billet 47re which as you said will shift faster and both hold the same amount of power. I have never had a converter issue and I should be in the 450 rwhp 1000ftlbs range now even with the little 62mm. BUT converter would not matter in this discussion anyway due to the fact that there would not be a converter in the trans because it is going in a boat.


As for a running DURAMAX take-out, they can be found for $2K now for an LB7 and some LLY's. Last I checked a good running CUMMINS take-out of the same year is costing about the same I had $4500 into my complete drivetrain take-out from a running driving truck, and that was before the market dropped and prices went down. Complete running trucks with CD's on them can be found for under $5K now with late model engines. As for $2-2500 into a 500HP 12 valve, that sounds a bit low from my reading as I did ALOT of research into the CUMMINS before I chose the DURAMAX. And a mechanical engine will have a HARD time obtaining the driveability on the street that an electronic engine can obtain. My current set-up is close to 450HP at the flywheel I would guess(probably slightly higher), and run's with a light haze at WOT. This is a tune with intake and exhaust only. 500HP at the flywheel from a DURAMAX is easily obtaineable with just tuning on any of them and run mostly smoke free.

As I have told you before I absolutely love your Duramax/suburban, your swap looks like it came off the factory assembly line its bad ass! :thumbsup: The whole reason I mentioned 12v 10 times PRICE! They are dirt cheap around $1000, unmatched reliability, dirt cheap to build power, takes 3 wires to run, HAS NO INJECTOR ISSUES and since they have been marineized for 30 years it makes it the most obvious, no-brain er choice for a boat. If i had unlimited money you can bet your arse there'd be something in there with a dial on the dash! With the ppump you can make over 300 fwhp for FREE with about an hours worth of mods. Then with a simple timing bump to the marine 370 5.9 factory timing and Factory cummins marine 5x12 injectors (200 bucks if you know where to get them) you already have 500hp worth of fuel :thumbsup: A good used turbo that will support 500hp will be $150-500 depending on what you want.

A good tune for a duramax (ppe hot+2/ EFI live) is $900 ALONE! So now you have a $2000 engine with injector issues in your future, a $900 tune to make it run so your at $3000 and its not even in the boat or marinized in any way. The Duramax has a computer and big harness that would need to be modified (as you know better then me). As for driveability with the mechanical pump, I live 30 mins from you come drive mine (plus i want to see your burb :D). It starts runs and drives like its stock, if i didnt tell you it was modded and I put a 4x4 under the go pedal you would never know. It does not smoke like in the video unless you are WFO if will get thick but thats only because I have the fuel setup for the twins that are going in after christmas. Once the 78mm is on top of the 62 I can unleash the other 90cc's i still have on tap all that fuel cost me $15. :D Bang for buck there is no argument. :nonod:

[baja200merk]

You rite njj503,,, it is timing, I reckon i was thinking mercury/compression, bang..... ochit,.ouch,,,

Smoke is not from timing, higher timing REDUCES smoke. Smoke means it is over fueled. Just because its smoking doesnt mean you are making more power then you would if it didnt smoke. The engine can only make a certain amount of power limited by the amount of AIR it can burn. I know on the 99-02 dodges they put a switch on the map sensor to fool it to think the truck is at a higher boost level (more air) so the injectors dump fuel which creates smoke. STUPID MODIFICATION.....

[RB in NM]

The timing I was refering to was on my postn above with the banks issue of popping motors with too much timing,,, I mistakenly inserted 'compression' of which I was corrected.
RB

And yes, the guys who run the 'smoke' position on their custom tunes give diesels bad rap.

[bigtis]

the company I work for has gone threw close to 20 diesels since 06, FORDS suck.... peirod. can't get 200K outta none. 90-95% of the use was truck with tools in the back, no heavy pulling. we had two of the 6.2's. and one caught on fire with less then 15K on it and ford bought it back, then we had another the didn't crank after 1500 miles and ford couldn't figure out the problem. they bough that truck back as well. Dodges were all junk as well. we had no diesels, but all the 4.7's "10 or 11" had EGR valve problems right around 30K. my 06 duramax had a superchip on it at under 20K and has lived through all MY ABUSE.... "IT TREAT IT AS IT DON"T PAY FOR IT"....... and all I've been able to break was the cvs on the front from being stuck with a 21K payload of 610 limestone and trying to use 4x4low to get out. trucks got close to 150K of EXTREMELY abused use. I do change the oil every 3-5K though.\


DON"T BUST MY BALLS..... I LOVE a cummins. especially a red top N14!!!!!!!! but the duramax is a GREAT engine as well. FORD JUST SUCKS...........doing away with the 7.3 was the stupidest thing they ever did.

[baja200merk]

The chevy ford dodge thing has been beat to death a thousand times. People love bashing the 6.0 but when they are built correctly, studded, good HPOP, egr delete etc. they can live and they are fast. If you had a 400hp 6.0 ford vs a 400hp cummins or dmax at the same weight, the 6.0 would win a drag race due to how broad its power band is they can be a good motor. There is one built to the hill they turn it 6k and its got a p pump :eek:. Just takes a lot of work to make one reliable.

I love duramax, they are like the factory hot rod. If I had the dough I'd own one no problem. The chevy is all around a better truck, my dodge is falling apart around the drive train seriously :mad:

THis thread was supposed to be discussing a hot rod diesel in a boat! :D

[THEFERMANATOR]

GM's weak IFS doesnt matter, they fixed that a long time ago, we are talking about putting it in a boat.

My comment was about the quoted poster saying GM's IFS was weak, I realize this is about boats.


Thanks for clearing that up about the duraflite. What I was getting at is the fact that a full billet allison is still almost
$3,000 more then a full billet 47re which as you said will shift faster and both hold the same amount of power. I have never had a converter issue and I should be in the 450 rwhp 1000ftlbs range now even with the little 62mm. BUT converter would not matter in this discussion anyway due to the fact that there would not be a converter in the trans because it is going in a boat.


A fully built ALLISON can still be done for around $5K minus billet internals. When you price a fully built GOERAND or SUNCOAST they aren't that much cheaper if any. I built my trans for under $2300 including a name brand triple disc billet converter, and it will hold in the 600HP range reliably.



As I have told you before I absolutely love your Duramax/suburban, your swap looks like it came off the factory assembly line its bad ass! :thumbsup: The whole reason I mentioned 12v 10 times PRICE! They are dirt cheap around $1000, unmatched reliability, dirt cheap to build power, takes 3 wires to run, HAS NO INJECTOR ISSUES and since they have been marineized for 30 years it makes it the most obvious, no-brain er choice for a boat. If i had unlimited money you can bet your arse there'd be something in there with a dial on the dash! With the ppump you can make over 300 fwhp for FREE with about an hours worth of mods. Then with a simple timing bump to the marine 370 5.9 factory timing and Factory cummins marine 5x12 injectors (200 bucks if you know where to get them) you already have 500hp worth of fuel :thumbsup: A good used turbo that will support 500hp will be $150-500 depending on what you want.

A good tune for a duramax (ppe hot+2/ EFI live) is $900 ALONE! So now you have a $2000 engine with injector issues in your future, a $900 tune to make it run so your at $3000 and its not even in the boat or marinized in any way. The Duramax has a computer and big harness that would need to be modified (as you know better then me). As for driveability with the mechanical pump, I live 30 mins from you come drive mine (plus i want to see your burb :D). It starts runs and drives like its stock, if i didnt tell you it was modded and I put a 4x4 under the go pedal you would never know. It does not smoke like in the video unless you are WFO if will get thick but thats only because I have the fuel setup for the twins that are going in after christmas. Once the 78mm is on top of the 62 I can unleash the other 90cc's i still have on tap all that fuel cost me $15. :D Bang for buck there is no argument. :nonod:

Prices have come down alot for the DURAMAX, and a PPE hot+2 can be had for that, or you can have EFILIVE like I do for that and it can tune 2 GM's or CUMMIN's with the included VIN package, and additional VIN licenses can be had for $125 to tune up to a total of 256 vehicles. And PPE's tunes are not that great in my opinion, but they are the only canned tuner that disables the passlock so you could put it in a boat. I know the 12 valve can be modded cheaply, but if your talking new parts they still aren't that cheap to build. And the NEW 08+ LB7 injectors have proven themselves to be as reliable as most any other common rail injector out there. Once BOSCH had to start paying for warranty replacements when GM's warranty ran out, they redesigned them. As far as electronics go, I don't see it as a big deal. Then again I am more of a tech guy I guess you would say that can do where as many are lost when it comes to wiring. I just don't understand why everybody thinks a 1250 pound tractor engine is so great is my thing? It is a good reliable engine, but they are also so heavy. I guess it boils down to personal prefferrence is all. I just don't like hearing all of teh internet rumors that are spread about DURAMAX's. They aren't nowhere near as expensive as most make them out to be, and don't give 1/10th the trouble that most people make them out to have. ANd when I get some freetime I have no problem meeting up with yeah, it's always good to meet the imaginary friends as my wife calls em. Althoiugh I have met you before awhile back.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Smoke is not from timing, higher timing REDUCES smoke. Smoke means it is over fueled. Just because its smoking doesnt mean you are making more power then you would if it didnt smoke. The engine can only make a certain amount of power limited by the amount of AIR it can burn. I know on the 99-02 dodges they put a switch on the map sensor to fool it to think the truck is at a higher boost level (more air) so the injectors dump fuel which creates smoke. STUPID MODIFICATION.....

Not always. Since I have an electronic common rail injection engine, I can set the timing pretty much wherever I want. And I have found taht more timing CAN equal more smoke. I found this out with my last tune where I was running up around 7-8 degrees and was getting a bad haze at part throttle and noticeable smoke at WOT with about 24 degrees of timing. I increased fuel, dropped the timing back to about 3-5 degrees, and set the top end to about 23 degrees of timing and cleared almost all of my smoke up all around.

[baja200merk]

Thats awesome that EFI does that, all my friends with duramax swear by ppe I will have to change their minds. Although they are not as tech as you are so they might be better off with the off the shelf tunes :eek: . Since you would be buying the motor for a boat I doubt it would come with any kind of injector warranty so you would be SOL on that (im guessing) LB7 injectors cost about $300 each correct? So 8cyls x 300 = $2400 more. So you get the motor with a tune $3000 + 2400 for injectors if/when they go out...

All the weight info I could find a few weeks ago on the 6bt was 900-1100 depending on what is bolted to it. Duramax is supposedly between 853 (long block) to 1000 dressed, ~100 lbs in a 21-25ft boat will never matter. Why do people like the dinosaur 40yr old tractor engine? I dont know why they like it but I like it cause its silly simple, gets great mileage, gets 60psi of boost shoved down its throat every day (stock head bolts), runs on free waste vegetable oil with no problem, pulls great, they are the definition of durable, tons of them running today with 1,000,000 miles under their belt and they are dirt cheap to buy, build, modify.

So for a speed boat its advantages would be-
Weight not enough difference to matter
Runs on FREE fuel all weekend.
Marinizing is already done bolt on.
run 3 wires, 2 make it run 1 shuts it off.
Will out live cock roaches
No computer or pass lock (which left me and my brother stranded in alabama BTW)
Dont need a $1000 tuner just a craftsmen tool kit :p
1/2 price of a dmax for half the work

Down side
Must change 6 exhaust valve springs to turn it 4000 $55.00
Waste vegetable oil smells like french fries and would make you hungry after a few beers
Fixed timing
EDIT: forgot- Tuning with a wrench and springs not a Dial on the dash.

In this case you cant tell me the tractor motor is not a better option due to 1. Simplicity 2. reliability 3. availability 4. Cost


As for the timing sorry my mind is stuck just like the timin on my truck :p. You are correct, timing will reduce smoke but only to a certain extent. Timing hurts spool up so if you have high enough timing to hurt spool up it will create more smoke with the same amount of fuel :iagree:. Maybe im picturing this wrong but did yours clean up because you reduced timing and added fuel both of which help spool? :confused:

We should hook up sometime, Lake tarpon boat parade is tomorrow night if your bored and feel like being cold. We are gonna go float around in the paramount :D

[Tom Foley]

Don't you guys get tired of working on your daily drivers ?? I HATE working on vehicles to get to or from work / home in the driveway at night ...way too many years of that BS . OK rant over ...cold beer !!:D
http://i42.tinypic.com/5d8uf.jpg

[baja200merk]

It cant be considered working on it because the work is not required but stock sucks. By definition it is improving it getting more MPG and power does not bother me one bit. Unlike the last few trucks i towed home or to my shop mine only goes down when I tear into it for improvements not cause it shut off on the side of the road or left me stranded :thumbsup:

Hold on I have to go knock on wood :eek:....

I do like having a cold one or 4 while i fill it up with the oil that cooked your lunch you have seen the beater veggie wagon :cheers:

wait a second where the hell did daily drivers come from this is a 100mph 6mpg diesel speed boat thread!!!! :D

[Rayzor]

Just saw this boat whil in Havasu this weekend. Cool setup for sure!

[Rayzor]

One more pic.......

[baja200merk]

Great pics Rayzor, I really wish I could afford build a setup like this. I put an e-tec on the race boat to gain some MPG and it seems to be around 5mpg while flogging on it but its not as good as the 60+mpg I get in the truck on free WVO :nonod:

[THEFERMANATOR]

Thats awesome that EFI does that, all my friends with duramax swear by ppe I will have to change their minds. Although they are not as tech as you are so they might be better off with the off the shelf tunes :eek: . Since you would be buying the motor for a boat I doubt it would come with any kind of injector warranty so you would be SOL on that (im guessing) LB7 injectors cost about $300 each correct? So 8cyls x 300 = $2400 more. So you get the motor with a tune $3000 + 2400 for injectors if/when they go out...

All the weight info I could find a few weeks ago on the 6bt was 900-1100 depending on what is bolted to it. Duramax is supposedly between 853 (long block) to 1000 dressed, ~100 lbs in a 21-25ft boat will never matter. Why do people like the dinosaur 40yr old tractor engine? I dont know why they like it but I like it cause its silly simple, gets great mileage, gets 60psi of boost shoved down its throat every day (stock head bolts), runs on free waste vegetable oil with no problem, pulls great, they are the definition of durable, tons of them running today with 1,000,000 miles under their belt and they are dirt cheap to buy, build, modify.

So for a speed boat its advantages would be-
Weight not enough difference to matter
Runs on FREE fuel all weekend.
Marinizing is already done bolt on.
run 3 wires, 2 make it run 1 shuts it off.
Will out live cock roaches
No computer or pass lock (which left me and my brother stranded in alabama BTW)
Dont need a $1000 tuner just a craftsmen tool kit :p
1/2 price of a dmax for half the work

Down side
Must change 6 exhaust valve springs to turn it 4000 $55.00
Waste vegetable oil smells like french fries and would make you hungry after a few beers
Fixed timing
EDIT: forgot- Tuning with a wrench and springs not a Dial on the dash.

In this case you cant tell me the tractor motor is not a better option due to 1. Simplicity 2. reliability 3. availability 4. Cost


As for the timing sorry my mind is stuck just like the timin on my truck :p. You are correct, timing will reduce smoke but only to a certain extent. Timing hurts spool up so if you have high enough timing to hurt spool up it will create more smoke with the same amount of fuel :iagree:. Maybe im picturing this wrong but did yours clean up because you reduced timing and added fuel both of which help spool? :confused:

We should hook up sometime, Lake tarpon boat parade is tomorrow night if your bored and feel like being cold. We are gonna go float around in the paramount :D


Just got back from OCALA a few hours ago, so can't make it for boating. The LB7 injectors can be had for about $200-250 depeending on what kind of a deal you can get on them from your supplier(I bought mine from GM for $186 back when I was doing alot of work and buying a good deal of volume from them). PPE makes a decent tuner for HP, but they are SMOKEY like no tommorrow. I've ran a few of there tunes, and stopped playing with them after a week as a crappy EFILIVE tune I made drove twice as good and smoked less than there tunes did. A fully dressed DMAX will weigh in around 840-850 pounds as they are LIGHTER than a 454 with iron heads and iron intake(which is what is in alot of power boats). All of the CUMMINS specs I found when I was considering one for my swap showed them to be around 1100-1200 pounds in the same trim as the DURAMAX. I know they are reliable long lived engines, I just don't see why everybody says it's the only good diesel out there. I've had peopel shake there head at me and call me stupid because I swapped in a DURAMAX instead of a CUMMINS. I just don't understand the fixation that so many have with it myself.

As for my tuning, I can't explain it and neither can some other tuners I have talked to. All I know is I greatly reduced hazing in the mid range RPM range running. And this is in teh range of where I'm already on boost as electronic tuning allows me to limit fuel on airflow(sort of like your anoroid does). so I don't blow alot of black smoke before I'm on boost. I try to write clean tunes as much as possible now, and stay away from smoke tunes(or smokey tunes) as it is hurting the diesel motorsport TREMENDOUSLY. This can be evidenced by teh recent EPA crackdown on US companies selling tunes or tuners that can defeat the DPF filter system.

[baja200merk]

The LB7 injectors can be had for about $200-250 depeending on what kind of a deal you can get on them from your supplier. A fully dressed DMAX will weigh in around 840-850 pounds as they are LIGHTER than a 454 with iron heads and iron intake(which is what is in alot of power boats). All of the CUMMINS specs I found when I was considering one for my swap showed them to be around 1100-1200 pounds in the same trim as the DURAMAX. I know they are reliable long lived engines, I just don't see why everybody says it's the only good diesel out there. I've had peopel shake there head at me and call me stupid because I swapped in a DURAMAX instead of a CUMMINS. I just don't understand the fixation that so many have with it myself.

As for my tuning, I can't explain it and neither can some other tuners I have talked to. All I know is I greatly reduced hazing in the mid range RPM range running. And this is in teh range of where I'm already on boost as electronic tuning allows me to limit fuel on airflow(sort of like your anoroid does). so I don't blow alot of black smoke before I'm on boost. I try to write clean tunes as much as possible now, and stay away from smoke tunes(or smokey tunes) as it is hurting the diesel motorsport TREMENDOUSLY. This can be evidenced by teh recent EPA crackdown on US companies selling tunes or tuners that can defeat the DPF filter system.

I have done some research and the 1100lb dressed figure is the worst case scenario. A real world dressed duramax is 900 average. A sub 200 lb difference is not worth a $250 x 8 = $2000 for injectors scratches it off the the list in my mind. Then add the fact that you can not run free fuel (waste vegetable oil) through a CP3 with out major issues... That just ensures it would never even make it on my list of options. There are other Isuzu diesels or mechanically injected detroits or CATs or Mans or MTUs that would fit the bill.

I have learned a bunch about tuning but I dont consider my self good at it never mind an expert. I love the clueless schmucks who just assume more fuel/smoke = more power. Its so far from the truth and you have the ability to adjust timing, duration and when it all comes on so that makes it a whole lot more interesting to figure out compared to my lets stretch/change/add/ heat or grind on a spring to change fueling, plus yours is pretty much on the fly. Who ever doesnt thing your swap is practical, efficient and a huge upgrade over the 6.5 should be considered clue-less. I like my tractor but those Isuzu's are nice (come on I had to say it :p) I was in one last night even with the off the shelf PPE tune it will boil the tires at 40 :eek:. I would just have to have some one hand me a 10k pile of 100 dollar bills before I considered putting it in a boat over a 12v. I spent 250 a week on fuel for 5 months in my 21ft paramount over the summer and i pulled the boat out of the water so i didnt have to pay the on water price. I burn some fuel, if you had the option to burn FREE WVO or pay for diesel you'd be trying to figure out how to screw a p-pump on the dmax :p.

Who ever thinks cummins is the only good diesel out there is just plain stupid. If you have got a clue they all will run good and even fast, i got 2 friends with 6.0s who have them sorted out and they made sure they dont have to worry about a dmax on EFI live. The 6.4s and scorpions are only getting more powerful as time goes on. The out-dated tractor motor is soon to be a thing of the past but till someone gets one to run on free fuel well you know what ill be driving :thumbsup:

[Instigator]

I do like having a cold one or 4 while i fill it up with the oil that cooked your lunch you have seen the beater veggie wagon :cheers:

Kevin, ran the old Sonic out of gas on a river in Ohio one time where we were lucky enough to be at restaurant that also sold gas. They didn't have any gas cans to get it down the hill to the boat though. They gave us two empty cooking oil jugs to use.
Rest of the weekend, everywhere we went the boat smelled like french fries! Was hilarious. We'd pull up to the sand bar and you could see people sniffing the air ;)

So now your thread has gone to the smell of food ;)

[baja200merk]

It does have a strong smell. I pulled the truck in my shop to empty a few truck loads of parts from the garage about 3 hours after I pulled it out my cousin walked in sayin it smells like french fries in here so I guess it kinda lingers :D. The smell doesnt bother me at all especially after burning 30 gallons of 15-40 rotella from the MTU's in the ferry I worked on, holey hell did that stuff stink! Way worse then hyd oil or trans fluid, if you got a good whiff of it you instantly choke. It hazed a bit at idle and there was numerous times people looked up at me at lights with a stupid look on their face and rolled up their windows (especially in NYC) all worth it for free fuel tho :thumbsup:

I think a checkmate/sonic/baja/cigarette/donzi 22-26 would be cool as hell and move dam good with 1000ft lbs.

[Instigator]

I think a checkmate/sonic/baja/cigarette/donzi 22-26 would be cool as hell and move dam good with 1000ft lbs.
100% agreed. I've BS'd w/the go fast I/O guys enough to know the truth on drive train life when on the edge and beating on it. That's why most of them stay at dock or close w/the lounge open admiring each others chrome all weekend.
Been reading about Fabio Buzi in Italy and what he has done w/diesels in real Offshore races. Huge fan of diesels.
Also grew up around large cruisers w/my folks boats and learned the difference at an early age. Has been a few large, 35' and up offshore style boats for sale w/diesels but I think they're a hard sell since that crowd still needs that extra 20 MPH's the 3 times a yr they use it.
I'm sick of working on my funk. Fuel and beer would make me happy.