effects of different props on crabbing and paddle wheel effect...

[tylerdelorme]

spent this season tweaking my setup on my valero with a warmed up xr2, tried a few different props and adjusted motor height on the jack plate. after learning to drive speeds are now in the high 70's 76 miles per on gps and 6200-300 on the tach is easy to get to...

the prop i have chosen as my fav so far is a 28 labed et which is less squarely than the choppers but i find feels very loose, it also was the fastest to date.

when i get the boat flying and get the motor jacked up almost to the top if i look back it looks almost like the motors turned sideways, and the torque in the wheel is out of this world, i cant really compare it to the chopper because the chopper wouldnt run as high. the between the motor being sidways like it is and the torque on the wheel the boat will get a wiggle form the corrections i have to make in the wheel and that combined with the drag from a sideways motor must be killing my topend numbers (and my arms)...

i would think that the gearcase would play a large part in the crabbing (cle with bobs torque tamer). but can the prop be worked to help with crabing. i like the attitude the boat has besides it being a bit loose. i think that the loosness means that the boats running dryer and therfore faster..(maybee in my head anyway). i dont want to mess with the prop too much. it needs to go in this winter to d.a.h to have some nicks and burs taken out. ill be talking to john about the problem to see what he suggests. i figured i would see what you guys figure.


thanks

[transomstand]

If that's a straight skeg CLE, it will be awful (at least it was on my boat). I built a torque tab the size of a loaf of bread, and still couldn't to get it to drive decent.

I changed to a swept skeg CLE with a Bob's cone added, and it was night and day. The longer case helps tremendously.

[pyro]

^what he said^

The bullet on the stock CLE is still a bit short without an add-on nose cone. There's less gearcase length to combat the prop torque. The swept skeg also puts the tab farther back for more leverage.

I run a cut-back swept-skeg CLE with Bob's cone and welded "curl" tab. The bullet is just as long as a Sporty, but smaller case diameter and less skeg. I can run a half-inch under the pad with very little wheel torque once it's up on the pad.

[tylerdelorme]

i figured this would have more to do with the gearcase than the prop... yes it is a straight up and down skeg, its actually nice to drive when the motors lower, with the torque tab on there it feels like im driving a caddy and she drives nice and striaght, its when i get it jacked all the way up...


so what can be done to help the crabbing on my perticular gearcase. should i give titus a call? or is there a less expensive alternative. also sore arms and blisters on my hands aside, speedwise what do you figure this crabbing issue is costing me ?? . im looking to get the most out of my rig, another 5 miles and hour and ill top 80 mph and thats pretty damn good for a valero with a 150 i think.

[transomstand]

Hard to say how much speed is lost, but 80 is certainly possible with that rig.

I would call Titus. I am actually running a straight skeg Sporty right now, and it drives very well with his mods.

[tylerdelorme]

whats to be expected from a v bottom valero with a little xr2 stuck on there??? ive always been impressed by that little motor, we where tunning it at the shop and according to the dyno it was making over 175...


ive got a score to settle with a checkmate v-mate running a 235 johhny... a.k.a the fridge..

just how fast can a little 2 liter make a v bottom valero go???

[transomstand]

whats to be expected from a v bottom valero with a little xr2 stuck on there??? ive always been impressed by that little motor, we where tunning it at the shop and according to the dyno it was making over 175...


ive got a score to settle with a checkmate v-mate running a 235 johhny... a.k.a the fridge..

just how fast can a little 2 liter make a v bottom valero go???

If your name was T-Rex, about 100:D

But for a "regular" guy, low 80's is a reasonable goal. You should be able to thump that Checkmate.

[tylerdelorme]

my lower unit has a bad seal that will be looked at over the winter. should i send the whole thing to titus or does he take the empty case only. anybody got a ballpark figure on what i can expect for titus to work his magic on my cle??? is there anything that i can do myself to make this thing crab less?

im hoping this wont be a lean christamss

[transomstand]

I'm homeless from gearcase expense this year, so I'm probably not the best person to ask:o

Check the health of the lower very closely first, a wild guess on the mods you need would be $750 or so.

I put a bunch of money into a case this year, only to find out it was no good after a short amount of run time.

This time of year, there's a lot of parts around, so you might do better just replacing what you have, then you can sell what you have, or keep it as a spare.

Spares are good, I now have 3 cases:D

[tylerdelorme]

does the prop have any bearing at all on the crabbing situation? and the loose feeling i have with the et whats that all about??? the chopers all made it feel like my tail was planted and i really didnt like the floaty feeling that i got form the et at first.... now i think it feels like flying:D... so im used to it. is the loose feeling what makes it fast? what is a props effect on crabbing?

[pyro]

The chopper is more of a high-rake bow-lifter. It tends to lift the bow by digging in the stern a bit. That planted feeling you speak of won't let you reach your potential. Loose is good. The looser the better, as long as you have enough natural lift to keep it up on the pad without much positive trim. If all is well, you should have little or no rooster tail. If you can't keep it up on the pad without roosting and crabbing, then you probably need more setback.

When there's less gearcase in the water, you have less tracking surface to keep the case in line with the hull. Crabbing and steering torque aren't just annoying and unpleasant-- They're dangerous. You are at risk of blowout, where an air pocket drags along the side of the gearcase and opens up the water around the prop. The result is dropping the nose, a temporary loss of steering control, and sometimes a violent high-speed turn.

Have you considered selling or trading your gearcase, and picking up an already-coned CLE or 200 case with the appropriate tab? You may end up spending less.

[transomstand]

is the loose feeling what makes it fast? what is a props effect on crabbing?

Yep. The less contact you make with the water, the faster it will be. Water contact equals drag.

Think of a surfacing prop as swimming. Every time your arm comes over your head, and dips back into the water, you're pulled forward. Likewise, every time the blade tip comes out of the water, and dips back in, it pulls the gearcase sideways.

[tylerdelorme]

i will give titus a call and see what he can do for me and how much it will cost. where is a good place to get an already modded gearcase and what should i be looking for for my specific application???

[tylerdelorme]

just got of the phone with titus, 600 for the mods i need. not including paint. and im responisble for shipping, which from canada to wherever he is im thinking might be a bit steep. sounds like a good option but the shipping will be the deal breaker i think.

[transomstand]

just got of the phone with titus, 600 for the mods i need. not including paint. and im responisble for shipping, which from canada to wherever he is im thinking might be a bit steep. sounds like a good option but the shipping will be the deal breaker i think.

Plus it has other issues with leaks, might be better off with another unit. Keep an eye out here, lots of cases pop up this time of year.

[Badbait]

A seal kit should take care of your leaks. Where is your propshaft in relation to the pad? How much above or below are you? Do you have any pictures of the boat running at top speed? They may give you some information on where to start to solve some of your problems. You need to look at a side view. If you are running to much positive trim that will force the back of the pad down and make the bow wiggle back and forth. It will also create more torque in the wheel. It is pretty hard to run high prop shaft height and not have some torque in the wheel.

[tylerdelorme]

im above the bad for sure, i cant say by how much, almost to the top of the jack plate with the motor mounted as high as it will go. its way up there, the speed comes as i get it higher but the wheel torque just kills me, best speed runs where with two people to help balance the weight. it seems the choppers that i ran where more responsive to changes in trim, with the chopper i would blip the trim button till i would feel it "Pop up"... the et has no drastic change like that so its hard to say where the best is. i look back when its running its best and it seems like pretty much neutral trim, i wish i had a video to study. i dont have a trim guage or a jack plate guage.. i do it by feel and a quick look behind. the boat behaves very well with the et and i can go close to 65 and 5400-5500 rpm without jacking it way up, right up till then its not bad on the arms and im used to it, i can drive it all day like that. but to make it fly i have to jack it high and you can hear the rpms comming up then she will cruise to 74 ish but by then the motor looks like its sideways and the torque is unreal. the best i ever did was with two people balanced just right and we hit 76 and the rmp got to 62-6300 ish she was screaming and the boat felt like it was higher out of the water than ever, then the buzzer went on the old xr2... motor to high and i had to settle it back down.

question here... when that buzzer goes off i i let off the gas and slow down to an idle... is that what im supposed to do? or do i just slow down to cruising speed or do i shut everything down??? it only happens when i jack it to the moon trying to do speed runs. so far its never done anything but make some steamy pee, and i just idle till the buzzer goes away and the pee stops steaming then its business as usual. i just hope im doing the right thing by idling.